Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003

Vol. 564 No. 2

National Tourism Development Authority Bill 2002 [ Seanad ] : Report Stage (Resumed and Final Stage).

Debate resumed on amendment No. 7:

In page 11, line 44, after "members" to insert "of which 5 or more shall be women".

(Deputy Deenihan).

Mr. Deenihan

I am pressing the amendment because of the poor record of the Government in appointing women to State boards. I indicated the number of women on numerous State boards dealing with issues in which they would be much involved such as tourism. The inequity in appointments by successive Ministers to various State boards is not justified. A recent publication by the National Women's Council of Ireland recommended that gender balance on State boards should be a statutory requirement. It recommended that it should be legally compulsory for women to make up at least 40% of each State board, which is the spirit of the amendment. Prominent women involved in the tourism industry throughout the country are supportive of this amendment. They want no more or no less than their male counterparts. All they want is fairness.

I appeal to the Minister to accept the amendment. He has tabled an amendment which may achieve the same result. However, women do not believe what Ministers commit to because the record indicates a poor performance by Governments in this respect. They want to enshrine in legislation this requirement. France introduced a parity law in 2000 which is working well in relation to the membership of boards and the involvement of women in political organisations, etc. It is time we adopted the French model.

I hope the Minister will accept the amendment in the spirit in which it has been tabled and in the interest of the thousands of women involved in the tourism industry. They are the principal driving force in many instances, including in bed and breakfast accommodation, guesthouses, hotels and so on.

Amendment put.

Tá

Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gormley, John.Harkin, Marian.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Kehoe, Paul.Kenny, Enda.Lynch, Kathleen.McCormack, Padraic.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.

Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Twomey, Liam.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Níl

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fleming, Seán.Fox, Mildred.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.

Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M. J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Seán.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Wilkinson, Ollie.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Durkan and Stagg; Níl, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher.

Amendment declared lost.

Mr. Wall

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 12, line 4, after "Authority" to insert "and one of them shall be elected by employees of the Authority".

Will the Minister consider this amendment given the importance of employee input into the authority? We have seen where the expertise and advice of the relevant people who comprise an authority can be supported by members of that authority or company. We have seen this with worker directors in semi-State bodies and it has been successful in this regard.

When the Civil Defence Bill was before the House, I asked the then Minister of State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Brennan, if he would agree to insert a similar amendment in that legislation. While he did not agree to insert it, it is on record that he agreed to implement such a proposal and, in fairness to him, he did so. When the board of the Civil Defence was appointed, the then Minister of State also appointed one of the employees of the Civil Defence to it.

If the Minister cannot agree to include the amendment in the legislation, will he give a commitment similar to that given by the Minister, Deputy Brennan, regarding the Civil Defence? Having employees as board members of either semi-State bodies or authorities can only be of assistance in that while they may not have the same expertise in the field, they may be valuable members of the relevant State body or authority. Given the value of this legislation which the Minister is seeking to put in place before the tourism season begins, having an employee on the authority would be of immense importance and value. I hope the Minister either gives a guarantee to the House or accepts the amendment.

Mr. Deenihan

I support the amendment. I tabled a similar one on Committee Stage and the Minister rejected it on that occasion. I understand that a member of the union is on the board of Bord Fáilte, that this has been the custom for some time and is probably the precedent for other ministerially appointed boards. It would be better to copperfasten this in legislation and that is why I agree with Deputy Wall. Two unions represent staff, SIPTU and the NUJ. Even if the Minister could give a commitment that a representative of one of the unions would be a member of the new board, this would satisfy workers.

Mr. O'Donoghue

There are many organisations that would like to be represented on the new authority and it would not be possible to legislate for all of them. It is important to point out in the first instance that there is no provision in the legislation for management to have automatic entitlement to membership of the board. That is just one example. There are other groups that might credibly argue for inclusion on the board of the new authority and who clearly will not have representation on it.

This brings me to the question of the new national agreement and the Labour Relations Commission review. I do not know exactly what shape the review will take. I anticipate that consideration will be given to the question of worker directors. I know that we have had representatives of workers on commercial bodies in the past, but this is a development agency and I am not aware of any other development agency where there is provision for worker representation. That said, I am of the view that there should be representation of one kind or another for people working in an organisation such as the National Tourism Development Authority.

In that respect the commitment which I will give to Deputy Wall is that I will seek to ensure that there is union representation on the authority. I think it best to do that outside of the framework of legislation as it will not then be prescriptive. This in turn means that nobody can suggest that the legislation is discriminatory as regards one sector or another. However, the fact that I reiterate my intention to have union representation on the authority is indicative of a response to the concerns which have been expressed by Deputies Wall and Deenihan on Committee Stage in regard to this matter.

I am glad Deputy Wall put down the amendment and that we have had the opportunity of discussing it. I hope the assurance I give him will assuage any fears he had in regard to the possibility of union representation being excluded from the authority. I look forward to constructive participation by the representative of the union on the authority.

Mr. Wall

I appreciate the assurance the Minister has given and the manner in which he presented the case. I understand his concerns in regard to including it in the legislation. I accept his word that he will include a union representative on the authority. I thank him for considering my amendment in that light.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. O'Donoghue

I move amendment No. 9:

In page 12, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following:

"(8) The Minister shall, in so far as is practicable, endeavour to ensure that among the members of the Authority there is an equitable balance between men and women.".

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments Nos. 10 and 11 not moved.

Bill, as amended, received for final consideration.

Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

Mr. Deenihan

I would like to thank the Minister for his co-operation on this Bill. We had a good discussion on it. An issue I raised on Second Stage was the issue of the industrial relations process. I urge the Minister, if he wants to establish this body – I think 1 May is establishment day – to ensure that any outstanding industrial relations matters are addressed as soon as possible. I understand that no meaningful discussions have taken place to date.

The first organisational staff chart was rejected by the unions. Chart two has now been presented but my understanding is that no agreed talks have taken place to date. There are outstanding issues like pensions, conditions of service and so forth that need to be addressed. I just point these out to the Minister to be helpful. It is important that this body be put in place for the sake of the industry. Due to the challenges facing the industry at this time there should be no long drawn out process such as there was with the establishment of Tourism Ireland Limited where it took 100 hours of negotiation. To ensure this does not happen in this case, I urge the Minister to see that meaningful negotiations start as soon as possible including management and union representatives.

Mr. Wall

I too wish to thank the Minister for the time he has given to this legislation. It is vitally important given the present situation in regard to tourism in Ireland. I hope what is envisaged by the Bill is forthcoming and the efforts of the new authority to improve the problems encountered by the industry at present are rewarded. I again thank the Minister for the time he gave to this and for the manner in which he addressed our concerns in regard to particular matters within the Bill.

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. O'Donoghue)

I thank the principal Opposition spokespersons for their kind remarks. I also take the opportunity of thanking them for their co-operation and input into this important legislation. I have indicated that it is my intention to appoint Mr. Seán Quinn, chief executive designate, as chief executive of the National Tourism Development Authority on establishment day. We already have an interim board in place.

I am glad to say that I again met the union representatives in recent weeks. I am also pleased to say that negotiations with the unions are taking place in order to finalise as much detail as possible prior to establishment day. It may not be possible to clear up all aspects but I sincerely hope that we move a long way towards doing so. A facilitator has also been appointed and this will be helpful in reaching a satisfactory resolution of the issues.

May I take this opportunity to warmly congratulate CERT on its performance over the years in the services sector on behalf of young people. I thank CERT for its wonderful contribution to the Irish tourism product. In that context it would be remiss of me if I did not, on this historic occasion, also take the opportunity of acknowledging the outstanding effort of Bord Fáilte in the development of the Irish tourism product over so many years. The men and women who served on the board and those who worked for it are owed a deep debt of gratitude by the Irish people.

Bord Fáilte's contribution to the development of Irish tourism down through the decades, in good times and bad, is something which every true blooded Irish man and woman would wish to acknowledge. From extremely small beginnings it succeeded in building up and marketing a tourism product in this country to the extent that both the product and the marketing strategy became the envy of many governments across the globe.

It is important to record that Bord Fáilte succeeded where few other Irish semi-State companies did. It succeeded in growing the industry to be one of the biggest in the State. Today the revenue it generates for the economy amounts to €4.3 billion making it, certainly, one of the largest industries we have. Its vibrancy, growth, resilience and confidence are due to the work of the men and women in Bord Fáilte whom I would like to salute this evening.

Question put and agreed to.