Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003

Vol. 564 No. 5

Private Members' Business. - School Accommodation: Motion.

Ms O'Sullivan

I move:

"That Dáil Éireann:

– deploring:

– the cutback in expenditure on the school building programme for 2003;

– the seriously dilapidated and overcrowded conditions of hundreds of schools around the country;

– the failure of the Government to use the unprecedented resources available to it since 1997 to ameliorate these conditions; and

– the trail of broken promises left by Government Ministers, Deputies and candidates in advance of the general election who made specific commitment to schools and parents that have not been honoured;

– noting:

– the stalled position of over 500 schools on Department of Education and Science architectural planning lists;

– the total lack of transparency as to when these schools will have their problems addressed; and

– the failure of some schools to reach basic health and safety standards;

– calls for:

– a Supplementary Estimate to address the most urgent priority schools in 2003;

– the immediate establishment of the long-promised database on school accommodation, with a specific timeframe for completion;

– substantially increased funding over the period 2004-08 to bring all schools up to established minimum standards;

– the provision of clear indications to principals, boards of management and parents as to when necessary refurbishment will be carried out; and

– the creation of a learning environment in all schools to allow pupils to realise their full potential, free from the constraints on development and progress imposed by inadequate facilities and run-down conditions."

I wish to share time with Deputies Howlin, Shortall, Gilmore and Lynch.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Sherlock)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Ms O'Sullivan

There are no adequate excuses for sub-standard school buildings. This is not an original statement by me, it is a quotation from the Fianna Fáil election manifesto of 1997, and it is absolutely true – there is no adequate excuse for sub-standard school buildings. There are hundreds of sub-standard schools around the country and hundreds of promises were made before the election last year that these buildings would be replaced or refurbished. Many of those who made and broke those promises will be voting on this motion and I ask them now to face up to the enormous sense of betrayal that is felt by parents, teachers and school children who were told with absolute certainty that their school had the go-ahead at last.

There is enormous frustration at the failure to live up to the promises made. Added to that is the uncertainty about when schools can expect to see progress. Parents and teachers have reached a point where they will not sit back and take it anymore and they have come together to form an organisation called TLC, Tuismitheoirí agus Teagascóirí Le Chéile, the objectives of which the Labour Party fully supports. I welcome the representatives of TLC and of teachers' unions in the Public Gallery.

The environment in which our children spend most of their young lives must surely be a priority. It is almost inconceivable that this budget has been cut at a time when money can be found for public relations and photographs, for consultants and chocolates and for a new jet or maybe two. Over €500 million was spent on the SSIA scheme last year and 0.5% of GNP annually is being put away for 2025. Would it not have been better to spend some of that money on leaking roofs and broken toilets in schools? There was a surplus of €5.6 billion in last year's income-expenditure balance. Could some of that have been spent providing new classrooms in overcrowded schools?

In our Private Members' time earlier this year, the Labour Party highlighted the failure to provide the €35 million needed to address the immediate needs of people with disabilities. On this occasion, we are using the time to pressurise the Government to provide the funding for the urgent needs of schools. We do this straightforwardly and unashamedly because we believe that these fundamental needs must be prioritised. There has been an ideological shift to the right in the actions of the Government that no longer spends taxpayers' money, as a priority, on the basic needs of citizens.

The 2003 school building programme was launched in January with proclamations of generosity and transparency. An examination of the document shows that it is neither generous nor transparent. It is a document of deceit and procrastination.

The total amount of money for primary schools in 2003 is €167.7 million and there is €172.2 million for post-primary schools. However most of this is already committed to projects already under construction from previous years. Only €10.3 million at primary level and €17.2 million at post-primary level is for new building projects. The schools that have been selected to proceed to construction in 2003 are listed in section 4 of the programme and they number 12 schools on the primary list and 14 on the post-primary list. The only other schools that will progress this year are 20 small schools in section 8, which are in a pilot scheme for devolved construction. This scheme has been allocated a paltry €5 million and it is interesting to note that 12 of the 20 schools are in the constituencies of Ministers and Ministers of State.

While 46 schools have positive news, more than 550 others, many with guarantees from their local Deputy that the money was there for them, are stalled in the lengthy sections 6 and 7 lists of schools at architectural planning. Principals, teachers, parents, boards of management and children in these schools have absolutely no idea when funding will come through.

In that architectural planning list, there are bands and stages in each of the two lists, sections 6 and 7. In terms of transparency, that sounds promising. I can find my school on the list and see what stage it is at and what band it is in. I assume all the schools in the same category as mine will steadily progress at the same pace and that when my school, and the others in the same band and stage as my school, get to the top, we will get funding.

Unfortunately it is not quite so simple. First, appendix 2 states: "The initial assignment of a project to a particular priority band does not preclude its subsequent re-assignment to a different band as circumstances change." Therefore, my school may not retain its current priority. In addition, there are so many other schools in the same category as mine that at the current rate of funding, only a fraction of us will move on each year. For example, a school in section 6, which is the advanced section, at stage 4-5, which is the highest stage, and at band 2, which is the second highest band, might feel it is nearly there. It is described as "very necessary". However, it is one of 60 in exactly that category and all those in band 1 of the same section and at the same stage are ahead in priority because they are "extremely urgent".

That is how bad it is for these schools. We simply cannot allow progress to stay at this snail's pace. The only way to relieve this traffic jam of schools is to assign adequate resources.

The long-promised database of schools has not been carried out but the best estimate so far produced is that it will take €1.5 billion at primary level and approximately the same at post-primary to bring all schools up to standard. That breaks down to €600 million per year for five years. The €343 million allocated for the school building programme this year pales into insignificance when one considers those sums.

The current pace of progress is not only going nowhere for most schools, but is also wasting money. Designs and costings have to be redone because they are out of date by the time they come to tender and planning. Numbers, especially in expanding areas, have grown way beyond the original design. The amount of money spent on rental and prefabs during the years of waiting will, in many cases, be as much as the school or extension would have cost if built when the need was first identified.

I spoke to a principal last week who told me that he estimates that more than €1 million will have been spent on rental of properties by the time his permanent school is built. He was offered a turn-key lease-back option that would have been cost effective and would have saved the rental, but the Department of Education and Science would not allow it. What a waste of money and what a shame that the children in this school are divided between two totally unsuitable buildings with no outdoor play area when an affordable solution is available. I have heard plea after plea from schools to be allowed to hire a local architect and builder at competitive rates. While the pilot initiative for 20 small schools this year is welcome, there is an urgent need to free schools from the shackles of the Department of Education and Science so that they can implement creative, innovative, cost-effective solutions.

Next September, there will be a real crisis in school accommodation in many parts of the country. Populations are expanding and existing schools cannot cope. Thousands of pupils face chronic overcrowding and many classes will continue to be conducted in toilets and corridors, in principals' offices and in creaking prefabs. Thousands of students expecting to start school in September may not be able to because of a shortage of space and inadequate facilities.

Last week I spoke to the principal of a school in Kildare who has obtained approval for an extra teacher and for furniture for the class but will have no classroom in which to put teacher, children and furniture. Are we back to the days of hedge schools? There is literally no place to put the children. This is completely farcical. A school in Donabate was officially opened last Friday but there is no actual school building there, not even a rented one. Its address is care of the sea scout den in Donabate. A letter that just came to me today from Holy Rosary primary school in Dublin 24 states:

In September 2003 we have applications to fill three Junior Infant classrooms. Unfortunately, we can only cater for one. In September 2004 we will have application[s] for three more Junior Infant classes and again room for only one. This trend is set to continue for the next number of years. This does not take account of resource teachers working in broom cupboards/store rooms/corridors . . . with inadequate ventilation and lighting and does not meet with health & safety regulations.

In applying our enrolment policy for the school we have discovered that not only will some Catholic children from the parish be refused admission but all of our non-national, non-catholic children from within the parish will have to be refused a place in our school. This reflects badly on our Government's policy on integration and anti-racism and on the efforts made by the school to foster and promote an integrated community.

Huge sprawling estates stretch out of Dublin into surrounding counties and while they have fancy shopping centres, there are no schools to which parents can send their children. Boards of management do not know what to do. The Minister for Education and Science has had numerous requests for meetings but he has blankly refused, even with the pleading of his party colleagues. He also refused a request to meet the lobby group TLC. In many instances, these same colleagues were only too eager to visit the schools last spring and summer with promises that were disgracefully broken after the general election. The former Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods, went on a spate of sod-turnings with his spade over his shoulder and promised many schools that they would have their new classrooms and buildings within months, but sadly the new Minister has let that spade grow rusty.

Many treacherous letters were dispatched to schools by Government candidates before the election, now not worth the paper they are written on. To quote from one: "I am pleased to inform you that approval has been given to go to tender which as you know has been outstanding for some time." The school that got this letter from its local Fianna Fáil candidate, St. Killian's in Tallaght, is still at pre-tender stage and is listed in band 3, which is the third level of priority. The candidate, Deputy O'Connor, was elected in Dublin South-West.

The problems are by no means confined to the greater Dublin area. The former Minister, Deputy Woods, wrote to the Fianna Fáil candidate in Wexford, Deputy Dempsey, about Gaelscoil Gharman, telling him that "provision has been made for this major project as part of the 2002 Building Programme." This school is still in band 2, the stalled list. Two Fianna Fáil candidates were elected in Wexford. A parent in County Galway told me that the principal of the school his children attend was told that if he bought a suitable site his TD, who is more senior than a backbencher, would arrange the funding for the school to be built. The principal got the site some time ago but there is no sign of the funding. Fianna Fáil candidates such as these were elected on deceit and misinformation and I challenge these Deputies to vote for the Labour Party motion tomorrow night to begin to redress this deceit and face up to the betrayal of schools in their constituencies.

Mr. Stagg

Hear, hear.

Ms O'Sullivan

There is a huge level of anger out there about these promises. What we know now is that while all these promises were being made to schools all over the country, the Minister for Finance was actually in the process of drawing up the memo to Government which spelt out where billions were to be cut from public spend ing, including school buildings. A lot of people done, a lot more to do.

The horror stories mount. There is a school in my constituency, St. Kieran's of Galvone, that is in such a bad state that the principal has been told by its insurance company that it will no longer be covered unless essential work on leaking toilets, subsiding floors and a dangerous playground is carried out by the new school year. Another Limerick school, St. Nessan's in Mungret, organised a protest last December. Its press release states:

The building work for 6 new classrooms (to replace existing prefabs) and a new PE Hall double the size of the present hall, was due to commence in 1999 and to be completed by 2001. The Government had announced over €2.15 million for the project. This was announced both on radio and in the newspapers. Since then not one cent has been spent.

My colleague, Deputy Moynihan-Cronin, has given me a vivid description of the appalling conditions in Meánscoil an Leith Triúigh in Cloghane, County Kerry. This school, with many others, is under investigation by the Health and Safety Authority. She described how one pupil keeps his pencil case plugged in a hole in the wall as it keeps the main entry point for the rats closed up. No school likes to be spoken of as rat-infested, but the sad reality is that some schools have such small resources that they have difficulty in dealing with such problems. When we table parliamentary questions about these investigations we are told that individual schools are responsible for the safety and welfare of children in their care and that the annual devolved grant of €3,809 per school and €12.70 per pupil should be used for such purposes. In most cases, this is not nearly adequate for the work it must cover. To make things worse, the €3,809 per school has been withheld this year while a review is carried out. This has been a cruel blow to small schools in particular.

Parents and teachers have been driven by frustration and disappointment to organise into a determined lobby group, TLC. Since the group's formation less than two months ago it has grown at a phenomenal pace and struck a chord all around the country. People will not tolerate the state of our schools. They will not tolerate the length of time it will take to put them right. They will not tolerate the kind of priorities that put luxuries before essentials. Adequate school buildings are essential.

The motion before the House tonight seeks to address the needs of schools in a planned and transparent way. There are some that are so dilapidated, that need extra classrooms so badly that they cannot wait beyond the summer. The people who run these schools are at a loss. They must be given emergency funding. A database, established as quickly as possible, will provide the information on the work required to give all children a learning environment in which basic standards apply. The allocation of funding to meet the needs will have to go hand in hand with a flexible and cost-effective system. School principals have a variety of practical proposals that could save time and money but their suggestions have come up against a blank wall and, as I said, the Minister has refused to meet them.

I know that many of my colleagues on the Government benches feel ashamed that their promises were not kept. By voting for this motion, they will have the chance to show their unwillingness to be used for short-term electoral gain, which ultimately gives politics a bad name. All Members of this House were taught by their teachers to be honest. What kind of an example did Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats set for our children in their pre-election promise splurge? As the Labour Party slogan says in our campaign for better school buildings, before we can teach our children, we need to educate some adults.

The Government Deputies, by voting on this motion, will have a chance to win back the faith of the children who are told that people should keep their promises but were led up the garden path by deceitful promises of sod-turnings and bricks and mortar which have not materialised. I commend the motion to the House.

Mr. Howlin

I have been a Member of these Houses for 20 years and I am very proud to be an elected public representative. I am proud of our profession and of the vast majority of people who are attracted to serving in public administration. However, there is a cynicism among the general public about politics and politicians. A recent opinion poll published in one of the Sunday newspapers indicates the low regard people have for the business of politics and politicians. We reached this low because of the actions of some. We have allowed the profession of politics to be debased and brought into disrepute.

Nothing has impacted more negatively on the business of politics and the service of the public than that catalogue of falsehoods that made up the Fianna Fáil manifesto at the last general election. In no area of that manifesto and in the plethora of promises that surrounded it was this more obvious than in the schools building programme of the Department of Education and Science. While promises galore were being dished out by the highest authorities, the Fianna Fáil-led Administration knew it had no intention of delivering, the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, was preparing his cuts proposals as revealed by subsequent disclosures. At that very time Fianna Fáil candidates, aided and abetted by senior Ministers, were bringing the falsehood of promises to people who were working in dreadful conditions and allowing children to be used as pawns for their own re-election campaigns, so it is little wonder that our profession is debased and that our word has so little clout among the general public.

I will cite three examples in my constituency. Earlier my colleague, Deputy O'Sullivan, referred to Gaelscoil Gharman in my home town Wexford. A few weeks before the last general election in May 2002, the front page of the Wexford People was adorned by the then Fianna Fáil Minister of State kissing the principal of that school under the headline “Delivered”, indicating the school would be done. To eliminate doubt, this was accompanied by a letter and a telephone call from the then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods. Perhaps the electorate in Wexford have particular prescience and intelligence because that candidate was not elected, despite his appearance on the front page of the local newspaper. However, Fianna Fáil did get two seats in my constituency.

Those people, who at the time worked so assiduously in a boys' clubhouse with one classroom on the school stage and others up a narrow metal staircase, were promised deliverance. Where are they today? Today that building is being refurbished and they have moved lock, stock and barrel to disused factory premises which the Wexford Deputies visited in recent days. They are scandalised by the con job perpetrated on them by Fianna Fáil last May.

The principal of the CBS in New Ross was eloquent when speaking on the radio this morning. Clongeen national school received promises faithfully. The irony is that I received a telephone call from the chairman of the board of management of Clongeen national school, a friend of mine and of the Minister for Education and Science, a local Fianna Fáil councillor, Jimmy Curtis. He asked me to raise his story because he was led to believe before the last general election that this would be delivered. All this falsehood is having an impact, not only on our profession, but also on the quality of those children's education at which they get only one chance. I ask the Minister to adjust his priorities to ensure those promises are delivered.

Ms Shortall

I welcome the opportunity to debate this matter in the House. While there are many serious issues in the education system, undoubtedly the most serious and the biggest scandal is that at this stage of the country's development, having come through the phenomenal boom of recent years, thousands of our young people are still being taught in schools that are dilapidated, rat-infested, cold, damp and inadequate. At this stage in our development in 2003, that is shameful. For a country that has spoken so much about the importance of education, where we try to engender in our young people respect for education, how can we expect them to have any respect when the Government and the previous Administration have treated so many of our young people in such a disrespectful manner by leaving them in buildings that are so inadequate? Some buildings hark back to the 1940s and 1950s and many are unsafe, damp and inappropriate.

While we should all be ashamed of this problem, the Government should be particularly ashamed. In recent years the Government had at its disposal the resources to tackle this problem, but it wasted that opportunity. It opted to spend money on Ministers' pet projects rather than getting basic education facilities and accommodation right. Now when things are tough and money has dried up to a certain extent, those problems remain and the children are still in dilapidated classrooms.

The problem has been compounded by the fact that Fianna Fáil candidates and sitting Deputies acted so cynically during the general election campaign. They went around the country telling schools they had the go-ahead. They contacted parents, teachers and pupils to tell them their schools would definitely proceed and, on the basis, they could put their trust in Fianna Fáil. That trust was bitterly dashed within months of the general election when their promises were found to be empty. They were found out for their deceit and lies. As other speakers have said that is doing damage to the reputation of politics.

Thousands of students are affected by the schools on the schools building list that have stalled. I will refer to five such schools in my constituency, all of which are at the final stage where pre-tender documents have been submitted to the Department and approved. All five schools were told by the two Fianna Fáil Deputies in the Dublin North-West constituency that the building projects would proceed this year. All five were lied to and all five projects have stalled.

I visited St. Canice's boys' school in Finglas last year. It has the worst school building I ever visited. I was ashamed to be a politician seeing a school in that condition in 2002. A year earlier the Department of Education and Science had arranged for asbestos tiles to be removed from the floor. The children were sitting in a school with bare concrete floors and they used samples of carpet to cover the space immediately under their feet. The school heating system was clapped out and did not work, the windows were draughty and every hour the teachers had to get the pupils to stand up, move around and exercise in order to keep their blood moving. The toilets were leaking into the wall in the school's main corridor so that there was a strong stench of urine throughout the building.

This is a disadvantaged school and parents had gone to great lengths to get their children uniforms and books to allow them to participate. This is the response from a Government that had money to burn at that stage, but left the children in those conditions. Last year, that school was told it could go ahead and moved into prefabs, but it has now been told the building programme is gone. Beneavin De La Salle school in Finglas which is 40 years old is in an atrocious condition and has no science laboratory at a time when we are trying to promote science. Holy Spirit boys' and girls' schools in Ballymun and St. Michael's school in Finglas have been left high and dry and it is a tribute to those schools that parents have remained loyal because the quality of the school ing is so good. The teachers in those schools are exceptional because no other group of workers would tolerate such conditions. It is now time for teachers to start taking action because if the Health and Safety Authority was brought into most of those schools, it would rightly condemn them. It is now time for action.

Mr. Gilmore

St. Anne's national school in Shankill is number 38 on a list of 122 primary schools which appears under section 6 of the Minister for Education and Science's 2003 school building programme, entitled "large scale primary projects that are at advanced stages of architectural planning." It is a school I know I well because I call there every morning with my nine year old son and, like many other schools, it had plans to build an extension, refurbish the existing building and provide much needed facilities for staff and pupils.

The school went through the patient ritual of getting the site, applying to the Department, applying for planning permission and getting architects' designs and so on. However, in the middle of 2001, it found that things had slowed down in its dealings with the building unit, so it began political lobbying. I raised questions in the House and raised the issue on the Adjournment and the principal and management of the school arranged through the Government Deputies in the House to meet with the then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods. At that meeting in February of last year, the school authorities were told that the school would get its go-ahead and the Minister told them he expected to personally turn the sod before Christmas. As happened in so many other cases, a Government Minister came to visit the school a few weeks before the general election – in this case , the Government Chief Whip, Deputy Hanafin. I was there for the event and, unlike the example cited by Deputy Howlin, she did not seal the deal with a kiss but she received several bualadhs bos as she stood in the reflected glory of bringing the good news to the assembled pupils, teachers and parents. I expected her to do a lap of honour around the school yard at any moment. It was not the most comfortable place in which to be an Opposition Deputy a few weeks before the election. However, like everyone else in that room, I believed what she told us – that the Government had approved the school project, that it would be proceeding to tender and that the extension would be proceeded with – as did everyone else in that room that morning. That exercise was repeated all over the country, in school after school, constituency after constituency and it was a collective lie.

It is one thing for election candidates, in the heat of electoral battle to make a promise which cannot be delivered. It is quite another to go out and enter into promises and commitments which the Government knows cannot and will not be delivered upon. As a result of this experience, principals, teachers, parents, friends of schools and members of boards of management have come together in a movement, Teagascóirí agus Tuismitheoirí le Chéile – TLC – to remind the Government of the promises and commitments which were made just a year ago and ensure they are delivered in the interests of our children.

In my own constituency there are many examples in the primary area such as Johnstown boys' national school and in the second level area – St. Brendan's College, Woodbrook; Newpark Comprehensive; Senior College, Dún Laoghaire; St. Laurence's College, Loughlinstown; Presentation Brothers; CBC Monkstown Park; Clonkeen College, Blackrock and several others, all of which are delayed at different stages in this planning process. All of these schools have real needs which are being neglected and ignored by the Government.

I join with Deputy O'Sullivan in appealing to Government backbenchers and Ministers who made commitments this time last year to honour them by supporting this motion tomorrow night. I urge the Minister to, at the very least, meet with TLC and discuss with it the needs of schools and make a serious effort to implement the commitments entered into last year which teachers, parents and those involved in the management of schools genuinely believed.

Ms Lynch

Cork people like to believe we are unique. A peculiar thing happened in Cork in 1997 which did not happen elsewhere in the country and was repeated at the last general election – Cork city returned six Fianna Fáil Deputies from the ten seats available. It was an outstanding performance and one would have thought that having rewarded the Taoiseach in such a way, the people of Cork would have been rewarded in return. Unfortunately, that did not happen. If one were to listen to those Deputies, particularly those who, like me, represent the north side of Cork City, one would think that everything necessary to upgrade the area would be delivered, but that has not been the case.

St. Joseph's national school in Riverstown, Glanmire is not a complacent school. It is centred in the heart of one of the fastest growing areas in the country and it takes in all-comers. Like every other area in the country, people from many nationalities live in Cork city and St. Joseph's does not discriminate. The school was originally built with 12 classrooms but it now has 19 classes which means that children are being taught English in corridors, the principal's office is a closed-up hallway, the staff rest room is appalling and the board of management has reached desperation point.

The cynicism of what went on in the run-up to the general election is clear. The excellent board of management of the school records everything in writing. I will not go through the full list of procedures and hoops which they were forced to go through, but I will begin with the school's entry for February 2002 – that infamous month – which states that the school had received "assurances from the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods, that our school extension will proceed to preparation of tender documents and then to tender under the Government's expanded building programme." One can imagine the delight in the area that, at long last, this dedicated group of people was about to get the extension they had sought since 1985. However, they were subsequently put through further hoops. They visited Tullamore but were kept on the long finger.

Cork had been good to Fianna Fáil and, at one stage, had a Minister for Education and Science in Deputy Martin who is now the Minister for Health and Children. Cork also claims the Deputy Government Chief Whip, Deputy Kelleher, and the people expected that promises would be delivered on. However, as the school discovered in September 2002, "the Department informed us there will be no further progress on our extension. No more money will be put into the project as the Department feels our needs will be different by the time it is ready to progress our project." What does that mean? It means the Department and the Government know that by then the children of the people who are so intensely involved in this campaign will have left primary school. They are desperately hoping there will not be the same pressure.

When I speak at public meetings I tell people I am a Labour Party Deputy. When I hear Fianna Fáil Deputies speak at public meetings, they are not a bit ashamed to stand and say they are members of Fianna Fáil, but if I were in their place and had made those promises, I would hang my head in shame. They have made cynics of an entire generation. They are a disgrace. To redeem themselves at this late stage I urge them to vote with the Labour Party for the motion.

Minister for Education and Science (Mr. N. Dempsey)

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and insert the following:

– "commends the Government for investing record levels of Exchequer funding in the school building programme since 1997;

– notes the remarkable expansion of the school building and refurbishment programme at primary and second level;

– recognises the need to address the historical infrastructural educational deficit on a planned phased basis in future years;

– considers that a multi-annual funding approach is required;

– supports the approach taken by the Minister for Education and Science in seeking a multi-annual capital funding envelope to put such a planned programme in place; and

– commends the Minister for Education and Science for his management of the 2003 school building programme."

I wish to share my time with Deputy Nolan.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Stagg

What about Deputy O'Connor?

Mr. N. Dempsey

Deputy O'Connor will have his chance tomorrow night. He is well able to speak for himself. I welcome the opportunity this motion gives me to address the issue of the school building programme. The Government recognises that, despite the progress to date, more needs to be done in this area. It is not possible to wipe out in the lifetime of one or two Governments the cumulative deficit of generations and to deal with emerging needs at the same time. Despite the impression being created, the overwhelming bulk of the building programme is designed to deal with the emerging needs.

Contrary to the impression some people are trying to create, only a small proportion of the schools in the building programme are in the "dilapidated, rat infested category" about which we so often hear. That is not to minimise the difficulties faced by these schools. For anybody directly affected, it is a difficult and emotional issue and one which I am fully committed to addressing.

While the Labour Party motion is undoubtedly motivated by political reasons—

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, will the Minister circulate his script?

Mr. N. Dempsey

Not personally, but it will be circulated.

Mr. Stagg

It should be circulated when the Minister starts speaking. The Minister is out of order.

Acting Chairman

The script will be distributed as requested.

Mr. N. Dempsey

It will be distributed. I am not in charge of distributing it.

Mr. Stagg

The Minister should be. It is parliamentary business.

Mr. N. Dempsey

While the Labour Party motion is undoubtedly motivated by political reasons—

Ms O'Sullivan

No, it is concern for the schools.

Mr. N. Dempsey

—it would be trite to say there are no problems when, quite clearly, there are children and teachers in buildings where conditions are far from the ideal.

I have accepted since my appointment that there are problems in the building area which need to be addressed. They are being and will be addressed. The problems tend to overshadow the progress and commitment of this and the previous Government in tackling the issue of substandard school accommodation. This problem has to be addressed in the context of the overall financial situation which this country faces. I am determined to ensure that in the current circumstances the budget for school buildings is maintained in the years ahead.

I am currently in discussion with my colleague, the Minister for Finance, to put in place a capital programme over the next five years which will tackle this problem in a planned and coherent manner. That five year programme will mean that schools, for the first time ever, will be able to track their project throughout the various stages. It will allow boards of management, parents and pupils to see the progress being made on their project. It will ensure that projects are advanced on the basis of an open and transparent system.

It is widely recognised that major capital programmes are difficult to manage when funding is provided annually. The provision of a multi-annual capital funding envelope for the schools building programme will provide additional clarity for all education partners who are working with my Department to progress much needed projects. The publication of the 2003 primary and post-primary school building programme was designed to given the maximum amount of information to managers, boards of management, principals, parents and students and to give an assurance that the capital programme is being operated in an open and transparent manner. It clearly sets out the objective criteria used in prioritising projects. It shows the commitment of the Government to dispel fears that projects can somehow jump the queue.

This year's school building programme gives an idea of how open and transparent that system will be. The Labour Party motion calls for transparency and nothing could be more transparent than what I am doing. Would that the Labour Party had adopted the same transparency when its Minister was in charge of this programme between 1992 and 1997? In 1997, the last time the Labour Party was in government and when there was a Labour Party Minister for Education, 30 school building projects were under way at primary level. At second level, only 12 projects were under way.

Mr. Stagg

Will the Minister give way?

Mr. N. Dempsey

That is in contrast with the 2003 schools building programme—

Mr. Stagg

Will the Minister give way?

Mr. N. Dempsey

No. This is in contrast—

Mr. Stagg

The Minister had cleared the backlog at that stage.

Acting Chairman

The Minister, without interruption.

Mr. N. Dempsey

That is in contrast with the 2003 schools building programme, which the Labour Party's motion condemns, which contains 92 large scale primary building projects and 36 post-primary projects that were recently completed. A total of 85 large scale primary and 38 post-primary projects are currently under construction or have been authorised to go to construction.

Mr. Stagg

About one tenth of what is needed.

Mr. N. Dempsey

A further 26 projects are planned to be released to go to construction this year.

Mr. Stagg

What about the ones the Minister promised last year?

Mr. N. Dempsey

The challenges we face in the schools building programme will not be solved by empty rhetoric or by politically motivated notices of motion to the House.

(Interruptions).

Mr. N. Dempsey

Perhaps Deputy Stagg will finish with the jackboot statistics. I said nothing when he was speaking.

Mr. Stagg

You had nothing to say.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I have something to say now.

Mr. Stagg

It is empty blather.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I have more to say and it is more constructive.

Mr. Stagg

It is empty blather.

Mr. N. Dempsey

Take your tablets, Deputy.

Acting Chairman

Deputies should speak through the Chair. Allow the Minister to proceed without further interruptions.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The challenge we face in the schools building programme will not be solved by empty rhetoric or by politically motivated notices of motion to the House.

Ms O'Sullivan

What about politically motivated promises?

Mr. N. Dempsey

They will be met by accepting the challenges and looking at new ways of resolving the issues.

Mr. Stagg

Ask Deputy O'Connor about broken promises.

Mr. N. Dempsey

New means, such as the devolved building initiative for small rural schools initiated this year, demonstrate my commitment to finding innovative and flexible solutions to the difficulties faced by schools seeking to refurbish their buildings or to provide additional accommodation quickly.

Mr. Rabbitte

What does that mean?

Mr. N. Dempsey

This scheme funds schools to respond quickly to accommodation difficulties.

Mr. Stagg

Gobbledegook.

Mr. N. Dempsey

There is minimal interaction with my Department—

Mr. Cregan

Have manners. Just listen, Deputy.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy should not interrupt.

Mr. N. Dempsey

There is minimal interaction with my Department and the school is fully empowered to drive the design and construction process using guidelines provided by my Department.

Mr. Stagg

Did you ever hear such gobbledegook?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I expect that this initiative will inform future policy and that the scheme will be expanded to include more schools in future years.

Mr. Stagg

Can we have a translation of the script?

Acting Chairman

The Minister, without interruption.

Mr. Cregan

It is the Opposition that is interrupting, not me.

Mr. Stagg

Can we have a translation of the script?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I would give it to the Deputy in Irish but he probably would not understand the Irish either. I expect that this initiative will inform future policy and that the scheme will be expanded to include more schools and extensions in future years.

Another innovative approach we are adopting is that of devising standard plans for various school sizes. These designs are being done in the Department and will enable us to reduce the substantial design fees that are incurred in each project – currently running at about 13% of project costs. This will mean that more money will be going into actual buildings, rather than design teams. A standard design for four, eight, 12 and 16-room schools will be devised. In addition to the savings on design fees, it will enable us to respond more quickly to building needs when money becomes available.

Mr. Stagg

If they get mirrors they will be able to look twice at it.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The approaches outlined regarding the rural primary school initiative and the devising of standardised plans could also be applied to school extensions. I am conscious from my previous experience in the Department of the Environment and Local Government that innovative building methods could reduce costs and provide top-quality accommodation.

Mr. Stagg

Where?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I have asked the building unit in my Department to look at innovative ways of providing such school buildings. There are examples of modular-style, pre-cast buildings which might be suitable, particularly in areas where the needs might be temporary.

Mr. Stagg

We will have to get a search party to look for them.

Acting Chairman

Fan nóiméad. An tAire without further interruption, please.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The possibility, either through PPPs or the ordinary building programme, of clustering building projects will also be considered in my Department to see if it would give rise to greater value for money.

Mr. Rabbitte

One school would do us in Kingswood. We do not need a cluster of them.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The idea would be to seek a tender for a cluster of schools with different needs – for example, extensions, roof repairs, refurbishment, etc. – to make it attractive for contractors to compete for the work.

Mr. Stagg

The Minister means pre-fabs.

Mr. N. Dempsey

Much has been made of the amount of money being paid for rented accommodation. The suggestion has been made that we should not rent accommodation because in some cases the rental costs are nearly as great as the cost of providing a more permanent solution. A number of boards of management and managers of schools have approached the Department offering to fund the difference between the rental on temporary accommodation and the cost of more permanent construction.

Mr. Stagg

Only well-off people could afford it.

Mr. Cregan

With respect, Acting Chairman, you are not being fair to the Minister. He is being constantly interrupted.

Mr. N. Dempsey

Such solutions may have implications which affect Government contract procedures but, in principle, I have little difficulty with this approach. There are undoubtedly cases where the more permanent solution would be preferable and I have instructed my officials to examine such cases carefully with a view to ensuring maximum value for money and more permanent solutions, subject to the examination of the financial procedures involved.

(Interruptions).

Acting Chairman

The Minister without interruption.

Mr. N. Dempsey

However, this approach is not always practical because of the immediate needs of the schools and the necessity to provide suitable accommodation within a reasonable period of time.

Mr. Stagg

Who wrote this?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I have no doubt that these innovative approaches to the building needs of schools will enable me to get even more value for money and to respond more quickly to the needs of local school communities. I am absolutely committed to trying to ensure that the procedures associated with school building projects are streamlined. An analysis of the current position regarding school accommodation demonstrates that a number of factors have contributed to, and continue to contribute to, the existing situation.

Mr. Stagg

The Minister did not provide the money he promised.

Mr. Cregan

That is unfair.

Acting Chairman

The Minister without further interruption.

Mr. Cregan

The Minister is being interrupted constantly. That is unfair.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I spoke earlier about the historic legacy of under investment. A further major factor propelling demand and change in the educational infrastructural landscape is changing demographics. As population shifts occur within regions and particularly in the larger cities, the result is often contraction among existing providers and new demands in rapidly developing areas. Meeting these new demands is not easy, particularly when sites have to be purchased, which is invariably the case. I would cite the example of Dublin where there are currently 10,000 vacant primary school places.

We must also acknowledge the real growth in teacher numbers that has taken place since 1997, supporting a Government-driven improvement in the overall quality of education provision and addressing special needs in particular. In the primary sector alone, teacher numbers have increased by 3,690 since 1997. This increase has been partly to meet emerging special needs provision, partly to lower pupil-teacher ratios and to reduce maximum class sizes. The pupil-teacher ratio in primary schools in the current year is projected to be 18.4, the lowest it has ever been in the history of the State, and down from 21.7 in the 1997-98 school year when the last Labour Party Minister was in office.

Mr. Stagg

All that is missing are classrooms.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The expansion in teacher numbers has also occurred at post-primary level where numbers have grown by 1,868 since 1996-97. I am sure that even the Opposition will appreciate the impact this enormous increase has had on accommodation requirements and I acknowledge that we are catching up in accommodation terms.

A further influencing factor on the demand side has been the development of curricular diversity in post-primary schools. The coming on stream in recent years of the junior certificate schools programme, the leaving certificate applied programme, the leaving certificate vocational programme and the transition year, inevitably requires adequate accommodation for the delivery of these courses.

Mr. Stagg

They have not got them.

Mr. N. Dempsey

Some of the these courses are directly targeted at providing pupils with a broader vocational training basis, thus leaving them better placed to either transfer from school with skills that are required in the jobs market or to progress to further training or apprenticeships. We sometimes forget the associated cost of providing strongly-based vocational education within the post-primary education system where specialist facilities are required to be in place and modern high standard equipment in use.

The further education sector, too, has been the recipient of capital funding from the schools building programme – a fact that is frequently overlooked.

Mr. Gilmore

Most of it in Cork when Deputy Martin was the Minister.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The pursuit of post-leaving certificate courses also provides a mechanism for students who might not otherwise have attained college entry requirements to proceed to third level. Supporting post-leaving certificate courses is an expensive proposition, particularly for equipment, since many of these courses are heavy users of ICT equipment and specialist machinery.

In addition to all the issues I have raised, I must remind Deputies of the decision in 1999 to acquire sites for all new schools. Prior to that date, the burden of acquiring a site for a new primary or secondary school rested with the school's trustees. This substantial burden on the promoters of a school was completely removed in January 1999 when it decided that the State would acquire sites for all new schools. At the same time, in a further visionary policy directive, the local contribution that school managerial authorities were required to pay towards the capital costs of a school was reduced.

The standard of accommodation now being provided to schools has also been dramatically improved. When building new post-primary schools, a broad range of specialist accommodation is provided related to the curricular options on offer at the school.

In general, a new post-primary school would qualify for a multimedia language laboratory equipped with 31 personal computers, a computer room equipped with 31 personal computers, science laboratories, home economics rooms, facilities for teaching technology subjects, administration accommodation, pastoral care offices, rest area, a PE hall, special needs accommodation and a general purpose and dining area. In the case of all new schools, all habitable rooms are networked for ICT with associated equipment provided.

No short cuts are taken in regard to the external environment. When acquiring a site, every effort is made to acquire one that is sufficiently large to provide for a playing pitch, hard play areas, adequate car parking, a bus turning bay and enough room for possible future expansion. In designing and planning a new school or an extension to an existing school, every effort is made to create a warm, welcoming, inclusive and positive environment.

In addition to all those demands I outlined, there are three further ongoing programmes. There is an asbestos remediation programme, a radon remediation programme and a programme to control airborne dust levels in woodwork rooms in post primary schools—

Mr. Rabbitte

There is not much dust airborne out my way.

Mr. N. Dempsey

—all of which take up the capital budget.

The Opposition has tried to denigrate this Government's and the previous Government's commitment to education. It has questioned how we used the "unprecedented resources . . . since 1997". The answers are simple and straightforward. We have increased overall funding for education by 87%, from €2.9 billion to €5.4 billion, in that period. Capital funding has increased almost four fold, by 338%, from €124 million to €608 million. Funding for youth work programmes increased by 38% to €25 million. Capitation funding for primary schools has increased by 80%, from €57 to €101 per pupil. Some 2,276 schools have been targeted for support packages for disadvantaged children.

The capital programme for 2002 covered projects in about 1,100 schools and the programme for 2003 will cater for a similar number. Primary teacher training places increased by 288%. Some 2,500 additional special needs assistants have been put in place. The allocation for adult literacy programmes have been increased 15-fold. There has been a massive increase in support for third level access programmes, from a miserly €500,000 when our socialist friends were in government—

Mr. Stagg

We were in government with the Minister's party.

Mr. N. Dempsey

—to €24 million in 2002. Is the Labour Party seriously telling us that these were not good investments in our education system and in the future of our young people? If it is, it should be honest enough to clearly indicate to the public which of these expenditures it would not have incurred.

Mr. Stagg

It is a matter of priority.

Mr. N. Dempsey

It is laughable that the Labour Party which had a total of 42 projects on the books in 1997 should criticise the programme in place this year. It may claim that money was not as plentiful in 1997, but Fianna Fáil quadrupled the number of building projects at post-primary level and almost doubled the number of projects at primary level within six months of coming to office.

Since 1997 there have been over 1,000 large-scale primary and post-primary projects approved to go to contract. All those actions are a firm and clear indication of our commitment to ensuring an ongoing substantial building programme. I intend to ensure that programme will continue in 2003 and in subsequent years. I commend the amendment to the House.

Mr. Stagg

The Minister did not say anything about the lies the Government told.

Mr. Nolan

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I commend the Minister on his stewardship of the Department of Education and Science since he was given that portfolio. The Minister acknowledged there are problems in the building area. I am sure there is not a public representative, Deputy, Senator or county councillor who has not been approached or made aware by parents, teachers or boards of management of shortcomings and areas where school buildings, in particular, need attention. I have been a public representative long enough to know that in the 1980s the major item of discussion during Private Members' time was the pupil-teacher ratio. We cannot mend and rectify all the difficulties in a sector, particularly in the education sector, overnight. I am sure that under the Minister's stewardship and by the time he leaves office he will have made an honest attempt to rectify these problems.

Under the five year capital building programme outlined by the Minister, for the first time schools and parents will be able to track the progress of their school through the various systems. As a backbencher I was aware, as I am sure were many Opposition Deputies, that it was alleged that certain schools in Ministers' constituencies were able to leapfrog other projects. I do not know and am not privy to whether that allegation was correct, but I commend the Minister on being honest enough to produce this programme. It will now be possible for people to check how projects are progressing.

There has been a transition in recent years from a primary and secondary education system dominated by religious orders to one run by lay people. When there is a move from a system that was in place for 100 to 150 years, it takes a good deal of effort and time to settle into the new system. We must give the Minister with responsibility for this sector a chance, let him see how the system works and check his record when he moves on from that portfolio – if the Minister was a member of the Labour Party or the Fine Gael Party, I would say the same.

There are great opportunities available for young people. From a time in the 1950s and 1960s when we exported many people to the UK to become labourers and the lucky ones became carpenters or plumbers, we now have a system where we educate our young people who graduate with good, sound qualifications, many of whom go abroad to work not only in the UK but in Europe, the United States and further afield. They are the envy of many countries. That position must continue.

Part and parcel of this has been the investment made in education at primary level, second level and, more importantly, in third level institutes. I am glad to note that investment in institutes of technology, which has increased from a €50 million capital programme in 1998 to almost €140 million last year, is paying off. There are great opportunities for school leavers. Some 30 years ago 60% of pupils left school at the age of 14 or 15 while now approximately 70% to 75% of pupils go on not only to second level but to third level. This is an important development which should be encouraged.

One area the Minister should examine, which has not been given enough attention and in respect of which we have taken our eye off the ball, is that of sport. More people should be encouraged to participate in sport. It would not only have the effect of keeping them off the streets and out of pubs, but it is a healthy part-time to which, to an extent, not enough attention has been given.

From a time when we supplied the UK market with unskilled labour, we now have the best educated young people in the world. It would be wrong to reverse that trend. I encourage the Minister to negotiate with his colleague, the Minister for Finance, to ensure the ongoing capital investment in our schools continues.

The secondary school system has changed enormously from the old technical schools to the vocational sector which caters not only for secondary school leavers but adults. Adult education programmes are run by all the vocational education committees. The programmes run in my constituency are extremely popular, particularly in rural towns. Many housewives, in particular, have availed of opportunities they may not have had the chance to avail of when they were younger. They had families, but now they are availing of opportunities provided by these programmes. The vocational education committees must be congratulated on providing courses which these people enjoy. They are practical courses and they are also a form of social integration. I met a lady recently who told me that she was a member of a class of 12 widows who meet five days a week and that she enjoys the course in the vocational school concerned.

I commend the Minister on the work he is doing in the Department. Under his new five year programme, there is a transparent system in place so we can track how various projects are progressing. I wish the Minister well with this programme and with other challenges in the Department of Education and Science.

Ms Enright

I propose to share my time with Deputies Stanton and O'Dowd. I compliment Deputy O'Sullivan for tabling this motion. It is disappointing that due to Government inactivity and apparent inability to improve conditions in our schools, the Opposition is forced to use Private Members' time again to try to achieve some improvement in this area. On the last occasion the Minister accused me of being led up the garden path by my colleagues and in this debate he accused Deputy O'Sullivan of being politically motivated, but he was wrong on both counts.

It is time to face reality on this issue. The Minister published the schools building programme at the end of January this year, allocating €342.9 million. Whether he or Deputies opposite accept it or not, the programme was cut in this year's Estimates. If Deputies opposite prefer to hanker back to 1997 they can do so, but those figures represent the country of its time and the economic landscape has changed in the meantime. The cost of completing any project has risen by a significant amount since then.

Much was made of the Minister securing an extra €20 million. We should remember that was not secured from the overall Department of Finance budget but from the third level building fund – a typical case of the Government robbing Peter to pay Paul. In his programme the Minister announced that 149 large-scale building projects would be funded this year. Many of these projects have been started previously and will run for a number of years. The harsh reality of the 2003 schools building programme is that 12 primary and 14 post-primary schools will be started this year. There are 3,172 primary schools in this country and 750 second level schools. This means that 0.37% of primary schools and a whole 1.86% of secondary schools have had new works sanctioned for this year. That is what the Minister sees as the way forward.

Mr. N. Dempsey

They are not all on the programme.

Ms Enright

There have been 12 primary and 14 post-primary new starts sanctioned for this year.

Mr. N. Dempsey

We do not have 3,100 applications.

Ms Enright

If the Minister had listened he would have heard me say that was the total number of schools.

Mr. Durkan

The Minister did not give way.

Ms Enright

The Minister trawled through the schools building programme but little has been done to progress any project. Schools now know how far down the list they are but they have little or no idea of what that actually means. The callous way the schools building programme was announced is an example of the failure of the Minister and his colleagues to grasp the despair many of parents and teachers are feeling. A letter dated January 2003 was sent to each chairperson or principal – not by name – stating that the Minister intends publishing his programme on Wednesday 22 January 2003; it told them they could look up the website. How can this be described as openness and transparency? School principals and parents rushed to look up the Department's website which, due to a technical hitch, was not operating for a few hours on the day in question, but none of them were any the wiser as to where their schools stood. The use of the word "programme" is nonsense. A programme is something with a beginning, middle and an end and there is certainly no end in sight for many of the schools listed, not to mention the hundreds not even listed in the 2003 programme. There is not even a beginning for the majority of schools on the programme.

Making a list is not providing a programme and it is certainly not providing transparency. The Minister said in his foreword that, "because the programme is now being published in full I hope it will dispel the fears that any school or project can jump the queue." Nobody knows where the queue begins or ends and between bands and stages no-one knows where they are. One's school can be the most urgent case at band 1 but it may not even have its pre-tender documents lodged. However, technically it is nearer to the top of the list than a band 2, 3 or 4 schools where documents have been requested, received and approved. So, under this transparent programme, designed as the Minister said to give the maximum amount of information, perhaps the Minister or one of his colleagues can explain exactly which of these schools will dealt with first. How does this fit in with the Minister's assurances that the building programme will be objective?

In the Minister's speech in this House on 11 December he addressed almost every aspect of primary education, with a few concluding remarks on the school building fund. He at least admitted then that progress was somewhat slower than he would have liked and then talked about historic under-investment in similar terms to those he used in this debate. He seemed to forget that he has been a member of Government, with the exception of a brief spell, in various shapes and forms since 1991 and that his party has been in Government for 15 of the last 17 years. There has been historic under-investment in that period.

The Minister said last December that it was his Department's intention to release the projects in architectural planning to construction on a phased basis over a number of years with due regard to the availability of capital funding. It is time we accepted that the whole purpose behind the building programme – as is being said to me and my colleagues by parents, students and teachers across the country – is to stall the process, to slow it down and to make it as difficult and time consuming as possible to get through, so that the significant amounts of money required do not have to be expended at present.

The Minister has more than once blamed schools for the condition in which they find themselves. He has not blamed all schools but he has referred to certain boards of management, stating that they receive capitation grants and that they should be using these to ensure schools are in compliance with health and safety regulations. He is effectively passing the blame for the state of schools to boards of management rather than himself and his Government. The reality is there are a number of schools that simply cannot comply with health and safety regulations because their conditions are impossible. In his reply to a parliamentary question I put down on 25 March relating to health and safety in schools, the Minister said that individual school authorities are responsible, in the first instance, for ensuring the safety and welfare of children and others in their care. The grant scheme for minor works is largely irrelevant when compared to the scale of this problem. The contingency sum of €8.7 million to deal with emergency works is equally irrelevant when one considers the scale of the emergency facing so many buildings. The entire programme, and the many schools not listed in the programme, is in a state of emergency and €8.7 million would not even be seen to make a difference.

A survey conducted recently of 44 schools in Galway highlights the despair felt by teachers, pupils and parents. The comments of the teachers and pupils surveyed are indicative of public feeling. There is concern in many schools that projects will never happen, that their projects will be dropped or overlooked due to falling numbers and that they will be neglected. Schools using numerous buildings on different sites have students facing unnecessary risks in going from location to location rather than being taught in a secure, safe environment. Schools which have been given pre-fab accommodation are worried they will be left on the long finger and that they have been fobbed off with pre-fabs.

There are schools losing teachers and pupils because of theses conditions and I understand why people believe that there is an unwritten policy to try and close schools by refusing improvements, thereby effectively reducing the numbers attending. I know the Minister will reject this and I accept that he may not have made a calculated decision to move in this direction. However, intentional or otherwise he is moving in this direction.

In his address to the Union of Students in Ireland in Killarney recently the Taoiseach said that we will not rest until we have provided every child with the opportunity to develop to its full potential and be prepared for a long and fruitful career. How does he expect the parents and teachers listening to this debate to react to such a statement? His aspirations are admirable but the lack of action is appalling. No child in a substandard school without the most basic requirements of space, heat, appropriate sanitary facilities, play and PE areas can be expected to achieve his or her potential; no child in this situation has any realistic chance of competing, let alone preparing for a long and fruitful career.

Parents are no longer prepared to tolerate such levels of inactivity from this Government. Not only has it decided to take a rest, what will be achieved under this year's programme is so little it looks like it has fallen asleep.

My colleagues have cited many examples of school conditions around the country and I will not go through others. Last December we heard much about the Give Children an Even Break programme from Government members. Now some schools have learned in recent weeks that the additional teachers promised to them are being withdrawn from September of this year. This makes a joke of any commitment from the Government to disadvantaged children.

The Minister promised schools substantial levels of funding for IT infrastructure, outlining the levels of funding schools would receive and promising in black and white that grants in 2003 will be at a similar level. Where is the 2003 grant? Department staff do not even know if it will be paid. Schools have invested in this infrastructure and have borrowed while expecting payment of this grant in 2003. I have a letter from one school enclosing its loan credit agreement with its bank – an agreement entered into following the Minister's commitment.

It is time the Minister took responsibility for his actions and promises. Last year's election saw a litany of promises made up and down the county; almost every school has its own story. I have an example of electioneering Fianna Fáil style, where progress was made, "Following further discussions I had with the Minister." This letter was sent to every house in one part of Cavan.

The time for delivery of these promises has arrived and is now past. People are demanding action. I welcome new initiatives but those are all coming out of the one budget. The Minister is always looking for constructive suggestions from the Opposition and we have been consistently calling for a multiannual programme to deal with school buildings.

The Government in its amendment and the Minister in his speech are asking the Dáil to consider that such a programme is required. All Members on this side of the House have believed this to be the case for a considerable time. While we would support such a programme, we cannot support the Minister's approach as we cannot see results.

Where lie the discussions between the Department of Education and Science and the Department of Finance and their respective Ministers, Deputies Noel Dempsey and McCreevy? Will the Minister for Finance, in voting for the Government amendment, signal he is about to sanction funding for this approach or will he consider his vote on the amendment as a totally separate and unconnected action?

Parents and teachers, the representatives of the hundreds of schools who have joined TLC, are in the gallery. They will no doubt have been glad to hear the Minister outline the facilities in all the brand new schools, that is, those not being provided in their children's schools. Neither they nor the Opposition will accept the Minister's inaction any longer. We want and demand a real response for the sake of these children. Let the Taoiseach take responsibility for his statement in Killarney and let the Government fulfil its promises.

Mr. Stanton

The Minister compared the position in 1997 when his party came to power with the position today. I would like to do the same. When the Fianna Fáil Party took office, the economy was in good order and there was a great deal of money around. That lasted until the election earlier this year after which we discovered that after five years of Fianna Fáil Party rule, the economy is in rag order due to the political choices the Government made.

The Minister for Finance, for instance, decided to put at least €500 million into the special savings investment accounts scheme. The Minister opposite is now short of money as a direct result of this policy and other activities of the Minister for Finance. Miscalculation for political ends has been the hallmark of the Fianna Fáil Party down the years. It is what separates it from other parties in the House. The party uses and abuses, calculates and miscalculates for electoral gain.

Before coming to the House I attended a meeting of people with disabilities in the Mansion House at which a frightening comment was made, namely, that those providing services for people with disabilities will not voice their needs and concerns because they are afraid they will be punished by the Government for doing so.

Mr. Durkan

They are afraid they will be victimised.

Mr. Stanton

For years, parents and teachers were in the same position. They are no longer afraid, have joined forces and are, at last, rising up. They have had enough and will not take any more from the Government. The Minister is sitting back, relaxed and unconcerned by what is taking place around him. He knows that the belts will be tightened for two or three years and then loosened come the next election. Everything will be rosy and the Government will be returned to power, but people will have longer memories this time. The way they were treated will stick in their minds for a long time.

The Minister mentioned in passing that he has allocated additional funding to youth work and youth services. Does he not realise there is a development plan in place, but no money to implement it and so, like many other proposals, is sitting on the shelf?

As colleagues have stated, there are many schools which are forced to teach children, particularly those with special needs, in broom closets, principals' offices, staff rooms and corridors. This is not good enough. Children with special needs should receive the most assistance.

The Minister has acknowledged his failure to persuade his colleagues in Government to provide a multi-annual capital funding envelope for the schools building programme. Despite being discussed for a long time, the Minister has not been able to deliver on the issue. The mandarins in the Department of Finance have refused to provide it, forcing the Minister to make cutbacks around the country.

The Minister told us the Department has published a transparent list of schools which will benefit from building works. Large numbers of people, including principals, boards of management, parents and teachers, worked extremely hard to get their schools into a position in which they thought they would at long last receive an extension, a new school or a proper, warm, comfortable, dry, safe building for their children. Now they have been told this will not happen and they will have to wait indefinitely. Youghal in my constituency badly needs a second level school. The plans have been put on hold and may proceed this year or the year after. Nobody, including the Minister, knows when it will be built.

I commend the Labour Party for tabling this motion. It is the second time since the start of the year that a motion of this kind has been brought before the House. It shows the level of anger, concern and need. Despite the significant amount of work done in this area, which I acknowledge, much more work is required. My worry and fear is that the money is not being made available. Without money the work cannot be done, regardless of how well intentioned Members of the House are. The Minister must go back to the Minister for Finance and fight his corner. He must obtain extra finance to ensure schools are built or are made safe, comfortable and usable. Otherwise, we will be forced to call on him to consider his position.

Mr. O'Dowd

Education is equally important for all our children. All our primary schools should be fit for the purposes for which they are intended, that is, to educate young children of legal school going age in a proper, safe and healthy environment. In the few minutes left to me I wish to highlight the case of Fatima national school in Drogheda. I begin by citing a letter dated 18 October 2000 from the former Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Woods, to the then Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, in which he states:

I am now pleased to inform you that a new school based on a building brief of 16 classrooms will be provided to replace the existing school. I hope you will be pleased with the news.

The whole town, not just the Minister, was delighted to find that the school in question would be replaced as the building was a serious fire hazard. Some of the Minister's constituents in County Meath attend the school. Everybody was happy and little attention was paid to the next letter which was sent by the building unit one month later. This was related to the building regulations and fire safety at the school and stated:

As Planning have recommended a new 16 Classroom school to replace the existing leased premised the expenditure outlined in the attached report is difficult to justify due to the short-term nature of the current arrangement. If however the existing accommodation is to remain in place for the foreseeable future then serious consideration should be given to implementing the fire safety improvements works in a scaled back manner if necessary depending on funding.

A year later, when faced with a general election, the Taoiseach, the then Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and the local Fianna Fáil Party candidates and followers visited the school. As everybody believed a new building would be built, all was fine. The parents were codded and conned. They are now faced with new circumstances arising from a letter from the Health and Safety Authority dated 3 April 2003, which outlines the precise nature of the problems in the school. It states:

The fire escape from the school building (North wing) linked to the convent fire escape has corroded joints/brackets and must be assessed by a competent person for stability and remedial work carried out as necessary. . .

The fire escape route steps from St. Anne's are uneven and bent and are a trip hazard. These steps must be assessed by a competent person for stability and remedial work carried out as necessary. . .

The desk in Ms. Brannigan's classroom that partially obstructs the fire escape route must be relocated so as to remove the partial obstruction. . .

Numerous fire exits are partially obstructed by heating pipes that also represent a trip hazard. These pipes must be relocated or covered in such a way that access to the fire exit is not impeded and the trip hazard removed. . .

The structural integrity of the bowing ceiling in the toilets adjoining Ms Cahill's and Ms McSweeney's classrooms must be assessed by a competent person for stability and remedial work carried out as necessary. . . .

The fire exit step in Ms. Redding's class is approximately 19 inches high and this must be assessed as to whether this would impede emergency egress. . . .

A fire exit in Ms. Keogh's classroom is blocked by the teacher's desk due to, it appears, space constraints. . . .

The adequacy of the fire emergency egress route at the rear of the PE hall must be assessed for adequacy by a competent person.

Everybody, including the Minister and his Department, is aware the building is a fire hazard. Just last weekend a large piece of metal guttering fell some 20 or 30 metres from the roof onto the school yard. Children would have died if it had been a school day and they had been playing in the yard. Their parents are fed up with the current position. It is unacceptable that so many false promises have been made. The Government has been shown up for what it is – a shame and a disgrace. It allowed this scenario to continue having made promises and not keeping them. However, the people will give the Government its answer shortly.

Debate adjourned.