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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 2003

Vol. 566 No. 4

Ceisteanna – Questions (Resumed). Priority Questions. - Affordable Housing Initiative.

Bernard Allen

Question:

119 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government his most up to date plans for the implementation of the promises given in the new national agreement, Sustaining Progress, to establish a new building target of 10,000 affordable houses in addition to existing targets as well as to implement the integrated strategy for homelessness, and the local authority homeless action plan. [13057/03]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

120 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the progress made to date with regard to the details of the agreement reached with the trade unions and employer organisations regarding the building of 10,000 affordable houses; when the scheme will start; the way in which it will operate; the manner in which it differs from the affordable housing scheme announced in 1999; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13058/03]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 119 and 120 together.

The affordable housing initiative forms part of the housing and accommodation special initiative under the new national partnership agreement Sustaining Progress. Now that the agreement has been ratified, the steering group, representative of Government and relevant social partners, will shortly address arrangements for advancing the various special initiatives under Sustaining Progress, including the housing and accommodation initiative and arrangements for deciding how action will be taken forward on these initiatives.

While the details of the new initiative have yet to be elaborated, it is aimed at further enhancing the supply of affordable housing. It is envisaged that this initiative will differ from the 1999 affordable housing scheme in terms of the target group and the fact that it will be designed not to have an impact on the Exchequer or general Government finances. Furthermore, it is intended that the initiative will not detract from the funding available for existing social and affordable housing programmes or effect the momentum of delivery of these programmes. Capital spending in 2003 on these programmes will be about €1.7 billion, which will allow for the needs of over 12,000 households to be met this year.

I welcome this initiative as another means of bringing more affordable housing on stream. In responding to the proposal, the Government is committed to an ambitious scale of delivery of affordable housing for the target groups concerned. We will work to ensure that the output from all affordable housing schemes is maximised. It will be important more generally to ensure the continuation of measures to maintain the overall supply of new houses.

Work is well under way on implementing the homeless strategy and the local homeless action plans. Homeless fora have been established at local level to oversee the provision of services to homeless people and to draw up three-year action plans to tackle homelessness. Most of the plans have been completed and work is under way on implementing them. As part of the plans, a range of new accommodation and related services have been developed and funded.

At national level, the cross-departmental team on homelessness is monitoring progress regarding the implementation of the strategy and the action plans. I have also asked the team to examine how best to evaluate the homeless strategy and action plan. I hope that this evaluation can commence before the end of this year.

There is a power failure in the House.

You should not have let the British ambassador in.

Acting Chairman

We will suspend until power returns.

We can continue.

I thought that somebody did not realise that the suspension had been lifted.

In view of the fact that the average price of a house in Dublin is now €260,000 and the average house price outside Dublin is €207,000, and considering that there are 5,500 homeless people, will the Minister outline his existing targets because the new agreement, Sustaining Progress, talks about 10,000 affordable houses in addition to existing targets? Will the Minister apologise to the voluntary organisations who are working so diligently with the homeless for the statement made by his Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, that the increase to 5,500 of homeless on the streets is minimal? It may be minimal in his opinion but at a time when we were promised a drastic reduction in the number of homeless, that is an insulting remark.

I will put the figures in context for the Deputy. In the Dublin area there were 2,900 homeless adults in March 1999 and in March 2002 there were 2,920. The number has remained static. That is in spite of enormous resources being put into the area. Neither I nor my Minister of State is denying for one moment that there is a problem. The Deputy has asked us what we have done. In 1999 only €12.5 million was spent in this area although that was a reasonable sum at the time. This year, in spite of the restrictions on the—

I asked the Minister a question about his existing targets and not about what has been done.

I am coming to that. The Deputy asked me in a broad sense about what we are doing. The figure last year was €43 million which is a significant increase and this year I have raised that figure to €50 million. There are substantial resources being channelled into this area through all local authorities.

Of course the Government wants to see people off the streets and homeless people accommodated. We are putting enormous resources into the various local authorities, into accommodation that can be used to take people off the streets and to move them on in the various services. In particular, homeless men have a range of problems and we need to deal with them in a cross-departmental approach because there are issues of alcoholism, drug abuse and mental illness, for example. I am aware of homeless men who, when offered accommodation, are unable for various reasons to see themselves fit into that type of restrictive situation because it does not sit well with their lifestyle.

This does not negate the Government's determination to deal with those who are homeless. We know what the figures are. There is a substantial review under way on this issue. That review is not simply to go back over what we have done but to elaborate on the directions taken by the previous Government and to examine whether we are meeting the need through the diversity and range of facilities being created. I am aware of the number of places and beds for homeless people that are available on any given night, specifically in this city, which are not being availed of. That is not the fault of the services in many respects, it is the system and the way that we have to deal with it. There are many issues in homelessness and one cannot think that it is simply a matter of transposing a cohort of people within the confines of bricks and mortar without taking into account all the other complicated issues. A large proportion of homeless people find it hard to go into settled living.

The two questions relate specifically to the initiative which is contained in the partnership agreement, Sustaining Progress, which was intended to provide an additional 10,000 affordable houses. When the Minister in his reply states that the steering group will shortly address the initiative, when he states that the details have yet to be elaborated and when he tells us what is envisaged by this scheme, is he not telling the House in plain language that nothing has been done to advance this initiative since it was agreed in the partnership agreement?

My second question is specific. The agreement states that this initiative on affordable housing has the objective of increasing the supply of affordable houses by 10,000 units. Will the Minister clarify what that means? Does that mean an additional 10,000 units per annum or does it mean 10,000 units in the lifetime of the partnership agreement, Sustaining Progress?

The direct answer to the Deputy's first question is that an enormous amount of work is ongoing on the initiative in which I have been directly involved. I am in discussions with many different groups. State lands is one of the key issues. I am trying to get the assessment done as quickly as possible. The Minister of State in the Department of Finance is working on the issue of State lands.

He is trying to sell State lands.

There is a great deal of State property which is not suitable for housing. I am talking specifically about land banks, which offer us a serious way forward. How this will fit in with the local planning guidelines must also be considered, including other facilities sun regard to the provision of 10,000 houses on an annual basis, this was part of the overall programme to try to add within the lifetime of the programme an extra 10,000 houses. It would be great if we could get more. If the Deputy is asking will there be an extra 10,000 houses by the end of this year through this methodology, the answer is "No". However, we must try to put into the marketplace as many new and affordable houses as possible. There is a strata of people who have the means but perhaps they fall short because of the cost of housing. We must develop a cost base in terms of housing and location so that people can afford to get into the housing market.

The figures indicate 58,000 completions this year, 10% of which were bought by people on moderate salaries and 30% by investors. What steps is the Minister taking to allow people on moderate salaries to attain a home of their own? Is the 10,000 affordable houses a very flimsy fig leaf to sell the overall package of Sustaining Progress? In reality will the Minister's words be translated into action?

They will. There was much debate on this issue during the discussions on Sustaining Progress. The social partners and the Government are very committed to this measure. However, I must go back to one aspect which seems to be missed. Like everyone else, when I look at the cost of housing today compared to what it was when I was first trying to buy a house, there is a substantial difference. The ESRI figures indicate clearly that in terms of net income, interest rates and inflation, the net cost of housing based on today's salaries show very little difference from what it was ten or 15 years ago.

That is not true. They went up €13,000 this year in Dublin.

I am giving the Deputy the facts. It is an interesting study.

The prices increased by €13,000 this year.

Then the Deputy must not accept what the ESRI is saying on anything. If we consider interest rates of 13%, 14%, 15% and 16%, inflation, people's salaries and the very high personal tax regime at the time and equate them to today's comparable figures, one will find that the net impact on salaries has not changed. However, it has changed in regard to the rented sector. We have now taken substantial measures to increase the stock of rented property which is crucially important for the increasing numbers of students. The cost of renting property has decreased substantially in recent times.

Acting Chairman

Deputy Gilmore, briefly.

I want to come back to the questions tabled relating to the affordable housing initiative under the partnership agreement. The Minister has confirmed that the 10,000 additional units will be provided in the lifetime of the partnership agreement. Sinclly in recent times.

Acting Chairman

Deputy Gilmore, briefly.

I want to come back to the questions tabled relating to the affordable housing initiative under the partnership agreement. The Minister has confirmed that the 10,000 additional units will be provided in the lifetime of the partnership agreement. Since this is an 18 month agreement, will we see 10,000 additional affordable houses, over and above the existing social and affordable housing schemes, produced by the Government by the end of 2004 when the partnership agreement expires?

The Deputy can take it from me with certainty that the 10,000 houses in the partnership agreement is a target we all want to achieve. It is included on the basis of the methodologies to achieving it. I have elucidated some of them and I will give another example.

I understand the scheme.

I know that. The Deputy asked me a question and I am trying to give him the answer.

Will the Minister provide 10,000 additional houses?

I hope so.

(Interruptions).

There is an agreement that the social partners—

The ambition of Sustaining Progress, the Government and I is to achieve 10,000 extra houses.

(Interruptions).

I am confident that if we get the agreement of other parties, which is not in my remit, I will have the possibility to achieve the extra 10,000 houses.

There should be no "ifs" and "buts". The Minister is already undermining the agreement.

The Deputy knows I will not give simplistic answers just for the sake of it. I am trying to explain how the figure can be achieved.

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