Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 27 May 2003

Vol. 567 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 10, motion re report of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges regarding the role of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges in legal representation; No. 11, motion re the report of the Committee on Members' Interests regarding the Standards in Public Office Act 2001; No. 12, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement establishing an association between the European Communities and the Republic of Chile; No. 18, Immigration Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Second Stage (resumed); and No. 2, Protection of the Environment Bill 2003 [Seanad] – Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 10, 11 and 12 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' Business shall be No. 32, motion re Northern Ireland.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 10, 11 and 12 without debate agreed? Agreed.

On the Order of Business—

Mr. Eamon Ryan

Before we move on, can I make just one point about No. 12? The Whips had agreed on the issue of trade matters that we would have a debate before the end of this term on the World Trade Organisation summit in Cancún in September. If we do not have it before the close of this term we will not have time to influence our negotiating position there. A letter has been issued from the relevant Minister of State to interested parties stating that that debate will not now occur. Will the Taoiseach confirm whether we will be able to have a debate on the World Trade Organisation talks?

The Taoiseach

Unless there is something I do not know, I can give an assurance that it will take place.

An Ceann Comhairle

The proposal is agreed to. I call Deputy Kenny.

Mr. Kenny

There are few things we can do in the House given the limitations upon us as political representatives but it is morally incumbent upon us to speak out for those who are disadvantaged and do not have a voice themselves.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows that is not in order.

Mr. Kenny

What proposals does the Taoiseach have to bring forward Votes 27 and 34 in respect of first level education and enterprise, trade and employment, to deal with the serious incidence of disadvantage which is outlined here every day and is self-evident throughout the country—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot discuss the content of what might be debated when the Estimates come before the House. I call the Taoiseach to answer on the Estimates on the order paper.

Mr. Kenny

If this Parliament and politicians elected by the people are unable to discuss these issues—

The Taoiseach

The Estimate process is ongoing. All the Estimates are going through the various committees and will be discussed therein; questions can be taken at those committees.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Pat Rabbitte.

Mr. Kenny

I am not finished. Will the education aspect be brought into the House for a full debate in view of the disadvantage which exists?

Second, in respect of Vote No. 10, the Revised Estimate for the Office of Public Works, has the Government given consideration yet on whether the State intends to purchase Lissadell House in County Sligo?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest that the Deputy submit a question. The content of what might be in a motion or an Estimate before the House cannot be debated on the Order of Business.

Mr. Allen

It can be discussed up in St. Luke's but it cannot be discussed in here.

Mr. Kenny

It is a very important question about buying one of the most historic houses in the country.

An Ceann Comhairle

I agree with the Deputy that it is a very important question, as is every question submitted by any Member but there are procedures in the House.

Mr. Durkan

The Taoiseach knows the answer.

Mr. Kenny

The Ceann Comhairle stood down there and mentioned the "great windows open to the south", quoting from poetry as well.

Mr. Durkan

The Taoiseach wants to answer. Let him do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach cannot be out of order any more than Deputy Kenny. Deputy Pat Rabbitte.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach was able to spend €6 million on Farmleigh; he might buy the place below for a few euro as well.

Mr. Rabbitte

The Tánaiste might have a few more bob in the bottom drawer. When the Taoiseach hosted a meeting with the Tánaiste at St. Luke's at the weekend, did he raise with her when the House might see the Abbottstown sports centre authority Bill?

The Taoiseach

I did not raise it with her but we will see it shortly, hopefully.

Mr. Sargent

While the Taoiseach and the Government spin their way out of one education crisis, perhaps into another, can the Taoiseach tell us about the charities Bill, given the large numbers of parent-teacher associations around the country that are having to resort to charity—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

Mr. Sargent

—to raise money for capital funding and are also entering into deals with developers as well as they cannot get help from Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot have a second stint.

The Taoiseach

It will be next year before that Bill comes before the House.

Mr. Sargent

That will be the 25th anniversary of the Costello report.

Ms O. Mitchell

We heard this morning about the letters going to the disabled 18 year olds. A 30 year old woman is currently living in a ward in Tallaght Hospital because she has nowhere to go.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Ms O. Mitchell

I certainly have. She has been living there for over a year.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, I will have to move on to Deputy Liz McManus.

Ms O. Mitchell

In view of the fact that there is an Estimate for health services on today's order paper, does the Taoiseach consider this arrangement good value for money or does he consider it to be good health care?

Ms McManus

The Minister for Health and Children has now admitted that he is not going to live up to his promise to abolish waiting lists. He has clearly failed to live up to his promise to reduce the waiting time from 12 months to six months.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Deputy put a question appropriate to the Order of Business please?

Ms McManus

He also made a promise which relates to promised legislation, which is to introduce and enact the regulations banning cigarette smoking in pubs by 1 January 2004. I would be concerned if the Minister of Health and Children does not reach this.

An Ceann Comhairle

A question on promised legislation.

Ms McManus

A Bill was passed and was found to be flawed because of ministerial incompetence and some of it had to be shelved. Will the Taoiseach bring this new Bill forward to ensure there is not another embarrassing fiasco down the line for the Minister for Health and Children?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on promised legislation.

Ms McManus

I refer to the public health tobacco (amendment) Bill?

The Taoiseach

The public health tobacco (amendment) Bill is being drafted by the Parliamentary Counsel and is due to be published in the early autumn.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

In the preamble to the outline of legislation for the current term, the disability Bill was highlighted and somehow lauded but is it the case that we will not see this Bill come forward in the current term and that further delays are now expected?

The Taoiseach

I have given detailed answers to questions on these Bills on two occasions in the past few weeks but I will do so again briefly. The education for persons with disabilities Bill will come forward first, hopefully in this session. When that is passed the disability Bill, which is being worked on as well, will come forward.

Mr. Timmins

For almost two months I have sought information from the Taoiseach in respect of the industrial dispute at the Department of Agriculture and Food and I would like to know what plans, if any, he has to resolve it?

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest the Deputy submits a question.

Mr. Timmins

A Cheann Comhairle, please let me finish.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows he is out of order. I call Deputy Lynch.

Mr. Timmins

This is an industry that accounts for 9% of our GDP—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy knows he is out of order.

Mr. Timmins

—and 9% of our employment, 27% of our foreign-earned income and this Government has deserted it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Timmins is being disorderly and is giving bad example to new Members. Deputy Kathleen Lynch.

Mr. Timmins

I am tired of coming in here and listening to nothing. The Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow Deputy Lynch to speak please.

Mr. Timmins

With respect, I believe the Ceann Comhairle should assist me in this matter. The Taoiseach and his Government—

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. The Chair will assist him as long as he is in order.

Mr. Timmins

—in the run-up to the election gave a commitment to farmers. They have done nothing for them since.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Timmins

The Taoiseach always defers to the Ceann Comhairle; he might be interested in giving a response.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must obey Standing Orders like everybody else. I suggest he submit a question to the Taoiseach.

Mr. Timmins

With respect, I have sought to raise this matter in several ways with the Taoiseach. When the Ceann Comhairle was on this side of the House, he stood up and assisted the leader of the Opposition when he requested the Taoiseach to give time to this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Timmins to resume his seat.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Mr. Timmins

The least the Taoiseach could do is give an indication that he will give time to discuss this issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy wish to leave the House? He should resume his seat.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

There can be no point of order when the Chair is dealing with a point of disorder.

Mr. Timmins

Will the Taoiseach—

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Timmins to resume his seat. He should resume his seat while the Chair is on its feet.

Mr. Stanton

Let the Taoiseach answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Timmins is being grossly disorderly and if he does not resume his seat, the Chair will ask him to leave the House.

Mr. Timmins

The Taoiseach is interested in giving a reply.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Timmins is out of order.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat while the Chair is on its feet.

Mr. McGinley

He is not even listening.

Mr. Timmins

I have heard a lot of talk about disadvantage here today. The agricultural com munity, particularly along the western seaboard, is being completely neglected.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat while the Chair is on its feet.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order, the Taoiseach wants to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Timmins will leave the House if he does not resume his seat.

Mr. Timmins

No, a Cheann Comhairle. The Taoiseach could conclude this by giving a response. It will be this time next week before we have a debate on agriculture.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is obvious that the Deputy wishes to leave the House and the Chair will now facilitate that.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Timmins must leave the House.

Mr. Timmins

I will go if the Taoiseach will answer.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no point of order. This is a point of disorder. Will the Deputy leave the House?

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has persisted in being disorderly for over five minutes and has refused to obey the Chair—

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order.

Mr. Timmins

A Cheann Comhairle—