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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Jun 2003

Vol. 568 No. 3

National Economic and Social Development Office Bill 2002: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on the National Economic and Social Development Office Bill 2002, which gives a statutory basis to its three constituent bodies, the National Economic and Social Council, the National Economic and Social Forum and the National Centre for Partnership and Performance.

This Bill was initiated two weeks ago and during the wide-ranging debate on the evolution of the economy, I was reminded that prior to my entry to Dáil Éireann, I spent 20 years in the same line of work. It is a privilege that I was able to be self-employed from the early 1980s until last year.

The economy of this State over that 20 years, which is not a long time in real terms, has changed radically. At times, when one listens to the comments made in the House, one would think nothing in the State is working satisfactorily and that the situation is dismal. I am the first to admit that there are problems but we have seen considerable progress over the past two decades.

In the early 1980s there was high unemployment, inflation, bank interest rates and large-scale emigration. To this day the effects of that era are still palpable – many of my best friends from college and university emigrated. It was known as the "brain drain", we educated people here and they left. It was a sad reflection on the State at the time.

I have lived in Clondalkin all my life and I have seen the area grow, develop and change considerably. I have been involved in community activities there for many years and could see that there were parts of Clondalkin which experienced very high unemployment in the 1980s. It still exists but the rates experienced then are not the case now. We must, however, look at the effect of unemployment, not just on the individual but on the whole community. It devastated part of my constituency for a decade. People lived with no hope and the only prospect was to get out. That was a sad reflection on the country then. People had no dignity, self-worth or self-belief.

My involvement in education brought that home to me. I have been involved in the boards of management of a number of schools for some years and often we would examine absenteeism in detail. When we took the time to discuss the situation with teachers and families, we saw that many of the young people going through the educational process had no interest, enthusiasm or motivation. They came from a background where there was no prospect of employment. They could not remember their fathers ever working and their older brothers and sisters could not find work or emigrated. Motivating young people in such a system was difficult. We were fighting a losing battle. Many of those who went through the system and did well for themselves emigrated. That was the situation in the State in the early 1980s.

Today things have changed. Not everything is right, I recognise many of the problems we face and although there are still parts of my constituency experiencing social and economic disadvantage, if we look back, we can see the significant improvements that have been made since then. I meet people who suffer as a result of disadvantage on a regular basis but on a macro level the situation has improved significantly.

Participation rates in primary, secondary and third level education have greatly improved. We have broken the cycle of extremely high unemployment in areas where we thought we would never break it. There are many initiatives for children which are vital because we must get children at a young age into education. That cannot be emphasised enough because the future economic prosperity depends on it. If people living in disadvantaged areas cannot understand the necessity of education or cannot be afforded that opportunity they will always be at a disadvantage economically.

We have broken out of that cycle to an extent, although perhaps not enough. Travelling through parts of my constituency that would be classed as disadvantaged, the improvements of the past two decades are obvious. There is an emphasis on the involvement of pre-school children, there are after-school education and homework clubs and a wide range of other activities. While the area has one of the lowest take-up rates for third level education, it is far higher now than it has ever been in the past. It is not high enough but it is heading in the right direction.

More people are working in my area than ever before. They all have good jobs but more people are working. The difference work makes both to the individual and to the community he or she represents and in which he or she lives is unbelievable. All one has to do is walk down the street and one sees a different way of life. These people no longer appear grey, dull and fed up, they have a purpose and they aspire to better jobs. Many who have young children can see that their children should aspire to better jobs. Employment has given people a dignity, a self-belief and a self-esteem that many from my constituency have never had. The period from the early 1980s to date has probably seen the greatest growth in prosperity.

Those who emigrate nowadays do so by choice. Most school leavers decide to go to Australia, America or elsewhere. In the past it was known as the brain drain and it occurred because there was very little opportunity. Individuals and communities have found a dignity of which they had been robbed for so long because of unemployment. This dramatic change did not happen overnight or by chance. Much as Fianna Fáil and various Ministers would like to claim, it did not happen solely under Fianna Fáil, but over an extended period. Numerous Ministers from both sides of the House were involved in the transformation. A key element of the transformation was not merely what the Government of the day did – certainly it had a major role to contribute – but also social partnership. Social partnership, into which we entered in 1987, was a new way of doing business in Ireland. Those who engaged in it would freely admit they did not get everything they wanted but would also admit their lot has been greatly improved. There are sections that have not done as well as others. If one looks at the country as a whole, those who engaged in that social partnership from trade union leaders, trade union members, workers who were not members of trade unions, employers and nationally across the country have seen the benefit of partnership. It should be acknowledged there have been significant improvements during that period. It has been primarily due to the partnership engagement that endured here for that period. I would love to stand up and say it was a successful Fianna Fáil Government – it played its part – but it was social partnership.

When the Bill was introduced a couple of weeks ago I listened with interest to the Taoi seach, as I always do, when he made his contribution. A point to which he alluded was that Ireland's debt-GDP position is such that the ratio has fallen from 65% in 1997 to about 34% at the end of last year. In reality this means we have one of the lowest debt ratios in the EU with the exception of Luxembourg. The reduction in the debt GDP ratio has largely been achieved by the economic policies pursued by the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy.

We are going through difficult and turbulent times from a global point of view. Economic growth in Ireland certainly is not what is was as there is a slowdown, with the resultant reduction in revenue available to Government. We are committed to driving the economy forward and managing it in a sustainable way. One of the key elements of that is to successfully target foreign direct investment in Ireland. When revenue to Government is reduced, despite the fact that the economy is growing albeit at a slower pace than we had been used to, but at a higher rate than the EU average and most EU states, if we want to continue our economic advance what is the best way to do that? Is it now time to consider borrowing for major infrastructural projects? I say that with a degree of caution, because borrowing in the past has not always been successful. I appreciate there are various guidelines on debt within EU guidelines for stability and growth. If we want to maintain our growth and our economic focus for the next five to ten years, is the possibility of borrowing for major infrastructural projects worth considering? This is a debate that needs to be entered into but there is a certain caution because in the past borrowing has not always been for viable projects with a financial return. At a time when interest rates globally are relatively low, it is worthy of consideration.

I mentioned earlier that I look at the whole idea of borrowing at this stage because it is important to provide the necessary internal infrastructure if we are to continue to attract foreign investment. There has been a tendency by foreign investors to try to locate around the city. As the House is aware we have adopted a spatial strategy but if we are to be successful in implementing it one of the key elements must be to provide the necessary infrastructure. Up to the current year investors have chosen to invest in and around our city. The idea of borrowing to fast track the necessary infrastructure is an issue that will have to be addressed. I pose that as a question rather than making a political statement. Members of the Opposition will probably jump on the bandwagon and say, we have to assess it in economic terms, what it will cost, what it will deliver and if the return is worth the investment. I put it down as a genuine question. Because of the economic slowdown, if we are to try to maintain our economic progress, it is something we need to look at. I am convinced it is worth trying to provide this infrastructure because we have a history of being successful at bringing foreign direct investment into Ireland.

This morning I looked at the recent IDA Ireland report which refers to direct investment into the country. It states that it was cautiously optimistic for 2003 in regard to inward investment activity, despite the turbulent global conditions. The optimism has now been confirmed by the delivery of 36 IDA supported projects with about 6,300 jobs announced since last September. That is significant. I shall refer to the nature of those jobs later. Earlier I mentioned the importance of education. That was 6,300 jobs coming from direct investment into Ireland. Seán Dorgan went on to say that Ireland's economy was in a significant transition in relation to inward investment. With the changing local and global economic circumstances inward investment has to move up the value chain and become more skills based and innovation led. That brings me to the point about the importance of education. The jobs we are getting are higher skilled.

In my area in Clondalkin, Grange Castle, a world class biotechnology campus, one of the first companies which moved was Wyeth BioPharma which will employ 1,300, more than 50% of whom will be third level graduates, high earners and highly skilled. At present approximately 600 are employed and the number is expected to increase to 900 by the end of the year. Of the 6,300 jobs to which the IDA referred, more than two-thirds would be for graduates of third level, certificate, diploma, degree and post-graduates. It is important to get young people, especially from disadvantaged areas, into the education cycle and to keep them there. This is crucial if they are to have an expectation of a job with future prospects. Certainly the jobs that have been targeted by the IDA are in that category. Some 40% of the jobs in salary scale terms would be what the IDA call above the high skills guideline of €37,000 per annum. The success story is continuing.

As a nation, we have contributed significantly to it by means of social partnership. To sustain it, we must build very rapidly on our infrastructure. I suggested earlier that if we are to fast track the necessary infrastructure, we must consider borrowing. I say that with caution. If we borrow for capital projects of this nature, it is imperative that we ensure a number of things. Construction inflation on a number of projects in recent years has been horrendous and supply and demand issues must be addressed. If we are to invite foreign investment and to adapt it to our spatial strategy, we have little choice but to put the necessary infrastructure in place. If we do that, the people I have represented in socially disadvantaged areas will have real future prospects. I have seen remarkable improvements since the early 1980s. If I were to see the same rate of improvement over the next 20 years, I would be a very happy man.

I am sorry Deputy Hanafin has left. I heard that today is very important for her as it is her birthday. I am told she is 21, but I do not believe it. I think she is 19. Perhaps the Minister of State will pass on my good wishes to her.

I will pass them on; I am sure Deputy Hanafin is listening to the proceedings.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak on this Bill. I come from County Mayo and Deputy Kitt comes from a bordering county, although he has moved to Dublin. I am a little disappointed that he has not looked after the west of Ireland better as a west of Ireland man. We are united when it comes to the west of Ireland.

Until it comes to football.

We will deal with that very shortly and we will deal with Galway in the Connacht final.

As a national politician, I like to see the economy doing well and I like to see people in employment regardless of what part of Ireland they live in. As with any Deputy, however, the people of my constituency elected me to this Parliament to represent them. We are here to do our best, to air views from our region or county and to make those areas as good as they can be for the people who live in them. We saw another report from the IDA this week which shows that it has failed to attract IDA-backed jobs to the BMW region. I am very disappointed that out of 20 projects established in the past year, only seven were located in the regions despite the Government's commitment to direct half of all jobs created by the IDA to the BMW area.

The BMW area is recognised by Europe as having a problem which is why we have been given Objective One status until 2006. Europe recognises the imbalance in the development of this country. Everything is developed within 60 miles of this House while for the next 60 miles everything is forgotten about. We see that with job creation. Europe tells us that we are to be allocated €1.3 billion. That is €1,300 million to be spent to attract industry, infrastructure and development to the regions. Despite this, the IDA accepts that it failed last year to achieve the Government's regional development policy. If the IDA could not accomplish this during the good times, how is it to honour the Government's commitment now that there has been a downturn in the economy? We see jobs being lost every day and every week.

Regarding the Shannon stopover, I listen to people on radio programmes, some of whom are from the west of Ireland but have moved to Dublin. They become very sophisticated when they come to Dublin and can forget about the west once they get used to the DART, the traffic and the high life. On Sunday morning I listened to someone I will not name, as I know the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will give out to me if I do. The person complained about the Shannon stopover and explained the reasons he does not wish to fly to Shannon when he is travelling to Dublin. I do not say that every flight from America should land at Shannon Airport, but if we are serious about regional development, we have to spread it out. Last year I had a row with a colleague of Deputy Kitt's, Deputy Ó Cuív, in regard to the upgrading of Galway Airport which received a fortune in Government grants while there is a regional airport in Knock.

As well as providing for regional development, provision must be made to spread development within the regions. Galway has hospitals, a university and an institute of technology, which I am delighted to say are excellent facilities. If there is one thing the west of Ireland has been good at, it is producing graduates. I must pay tribute to the EU regarding the infrastructure that has been put in place. We are very lucky to have so many graduates in the west of Ireland who are well able to take up any job in any part of this or any other country. They have proven that. I am, therefore, disappointed with the IDA which has not been able to put the necessary infrastructure in place despite the presence of educated third level graduates in the region.

There was a time when mothers and fathers reared their children to emigrate but this trend has, thank God, been reversed. Many people are returning to this country with a wish to work here. When the economy was doing well, thousands came back each week and the train of people leaving for England, America and elsewhere was stopped. I am afraid that many who returned are disillusioned and disappointed. They packed up in Britain, America and elsewhere and returned to find they have to leave once more. Many of these people made major investments in homes and businesses, but they are finding it more and more difficult to operate here. The Government has a responsibility to the regions to promote and help them.

The BMW region has been identified and it should be supported. I do not make any apologies in this regard. If Europe recognises the region as the poorest, the Government should recognise that there is a serious problem. We should not be afraid to make 50% of flights from Dublin stop in Shannon as this would promote regional development. It would take courage and commitment. I know there are EU regulations in place, but we are the only member state to obey every one of those. In the next few months it is proposed to stop people smoking in pubs, although I will not say whether I agree or disagree with the measure. I used to smoke, but I do not smoke any more. I was on holiday in France two years ago and while I ate in a restaurant a dog came in and cocked his leg as the guy behind the counter smoked a cigarette. No one took any notice. If that happened here, about 40 inspectors from the Department of Health and Children would be involved, major fines would be imposed and the restaurant would go out of business.

I believe in EU regulations, but we should not go too far. We are great for implementing EU regulations and in this instance the EU has told us that Government should support the BMW region with grants, infrastructure and through the encouragement of investment. Whatever has to be done, should be done. Instead, of the 20 projects established by the IDA, only seven were for the regions while the rest went to Dublin and its environs. People in this city have to get up two hours earlier in the morning to go to work and it takes them two hours longer to get home in the evening. At the same time, civil servants in Dublin offices make decisions on regional development despite the fact that some of them have never slept a night in any region of this country. Some of those talking about south, north and east Mayo do not know where Bangor Erris or Belmullet are, yet they are up here with their pencils making decisions about the regions.

Fine Gael set up the Western Development Commission when it was in Government. All parties spoke about it when they were in Opposition and talked about what they would do for the regions. However, as soon as they reached the Government side of the House they forgot about the west, western development and the BMW. Everything had to be put into Dublin.

My colleagues, the ushers, who do such good work in the House, think I am hard on Dublin. I love Dublin people. In fact, if Mayo do not win the All-Ireland this year, and I believe Mayo will win, I hope Dublin will win it. I am not against Dublin. The ushers give out to me that I am hard on Dublin but I like Dublin, the people of Dublin and the ushers.

What about the politicians?

I am working for Dublin on this occasion. Dublin people tell me they agree with me about regional development. They would like to see the State agencies taken out of this city to free its traffic and to give Dublin people an opportunity to live. They cannot live in this city. I used to give out about Dublin people but I cannot any more because I feel sorry for them. It takes them so long to travel to work in the morning and to travel home in the evening that they spend more time in their cars than in their homes. That is not right and it is not good for family life. It is not right to choke a region.

I have no wish to criticise the Luas but I hope it will work. All I see at present is chaos throughout the city. People in Dublin have been extremely patient with road works and so forth. It should have been put underground but that is a debate for another day. In the long term it would have been cheaper to put it underground. We should have installed an underground system like those in most modern cities and not have been afraid to put the money in place to do it now rather than have to do it in the future. I do not believe Luas will work. It will create further problems in the city. It should have been put underground from the start.

The Western Development Commission has the reports on what is needed in the region. However, the finances for that were drastically reduced in this year's budget. That is not right; it should not happen. The IDA report this week showed there was a downturn in the economy and in job creation but the first area to suffer was the west. It is down 10% this year in terms of jobs. The IDA figure is actually 9.6%. Something is terribly wrong when that is allowed to happen.

There is no point setting up more committees or agencies. Everybody knows what the problems are. One can go into any library in the country and see nothing but reports, including consultants' reports. All of them cost a fortune. If another report is needed tomorrow on health, education, jobs or social welfare these consultants, having been appointed by the Government, go into the libraries and simply update the reports and charge the Government up to €300,000 for doing it. The greatest growth in employment in this country in the last five or six years has been among consultants and spin doctors. If we could get them to come to the regions when they are compiling reports and ensure that they stay there for two or three weeks and actually see what is happening there, they might have more sympathy for us. They might at least be able to tell the Government what should be done for the west.

There are peat power stations in the midlands because the deputy leader of Fianna Fáil, a Minister in the Cabinet, ensured that although one was closed down another two power stations were built. Bellacorick is located in my constituency and, until recently, when there was a storm the lights used to go out because the power supply was bad. It has been upgraded a little by the ESB yet, next year, 300 people will lose their jobs in Bellacorick. That could have been upgraded. If we were serious about regional development, that is where the investment would have taken place and where the jobs would have been maintained. However, Connacht did not have anybody in Cabinet. The last two Governments have been the first since the foundation of State not to include a Minister from Mayo in Cabinet. If there had been a Minister from Mayo, Bellacorick would not be closing next year.

There is major unemployment in Erris, an area as big as County Louth. Part of the area is the responsibility of Údaras na Gaeltachta while the rest is the responsibility of the IDA. The area is losing 300 jobs, which is the equivalent of Lucan or Tallaght losing 3,000 jobs. There are no prospects of job creation in the future, if we are to go by the IDA report. The IDA could not implement Government policy last year. The Government said that half of all jobs to be created in the country were to be in the BMW region. When the IDA could not do that last year, it will hardly do it next year. That does not look good for the future of Mayo or the west of Ireland.

The Minister, Éamon Ó Cuív, has a great responsibility at Cabinet. He is from Galway and will have to look after the interests of the west and the BMW area because there is nobody else to do it. Decentralisation will show whether the Government is serious about regional development. It is not all bad in Mayo. Westport, Ballina and Castlebar are fine towns and the IDA is committed to ensuring that whatever development is available will be focused on them. What about places such as Kiltimagh, Ballinrobe and Belmullet? These towns are capable of catering for decentralisation. Recently my colleague, Deputy Kenny, conducted a survey of the people working in the Civil Service in Dublin. A significant number of them wanted to move to Mayo, Galway, Sligo, Leitrim or Roscommon in the western region. If the Government is serious about regional policy and about doing something to redress the imbalance with the east, most of the decentralisation should go to the BMW region.

I believe there are squabbles in the Cabinet about this. Ministers are seeking decentralisation to towns that do not need it. It should only go to towns that need it. If the Government does not do that, it will prove once and for all that it is not serious about regional development. Decentralisation will revitalise the west and areas to which the IDA cannot attract industry. Moving Government agencies to these regions will give the regions a boost and allow civil servants to move to the regions, become part of the community and have their children educated there. That will help the communities and the regions. Decentralisation will be the first test of whether the Government is serious about regionalisation.

The Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, is from the west. He knows it needs development. Europe recognised that need, as does the IDA. It needs infrastructure. Another Minister of State from the west, Deputy Treacy, has just joined us. The full team is present. Now is the time to deal with regional development and decentralisation. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, will know from a recent report that the IDA has failed the west. It was unable to implement Government policy.

Bellacorick in north Mayo will lose 300 jobs. I mentioned this yesterday with regard to gas. This is something that can assist in developing the west if the Government is serious about it. Natural gas will flow from north Mayo and into the national grid—

Do we have planning permission yet?

The Minister of State should not mind the planning – that will come at some stage when they do it properly. In relation to the gas, the Minister of State would help us with the planning if he had the courage and the guts. I ask him to tell us at the end of this debate which towns in County Mayo are getting gas. It is fine for him to speak – he has annoyed me now – because he, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, and the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, have the national grid coming from Dublin to Galway. The Government entered into an agreement with a private company to bring the pipeline from north Mayo to Galway but without a mention of Castlebar, Westport, Ballina or any other town in Mayo.

I hope that in the next few weeks the Minister of State and his colleagues will tell the people of Mayo what they are going to get out of the gas. When I put down Dáil questions on Bord Gáis, they will respond that gas will be extended to the people of Mayo "if it is viable." If it is anything like the IDA, and the way it has committed itself to the west, or like the Government, I can tell the House what will happen. The gas will be taken out and used to benefit Galway, Dublin and Belfast – I think they are even talking about sending it over to Scotland – but it will be of no benefit to the west.

I am going to mark the Minister of State and his colleagues' form here on in. This will be worse than the Connacht final, and I will be watching what commitment—

We will have the ground ready for the Deputy's county on 6 July.

The Minister of State has a problem because he does not know whether to go to the air show or the Connacht final. I am going to the Connacht final—

I ask the Deputy to address his final remarks through the Chair.

I was sorry to see the Ceann Comhairle's county going out of the championship last week, but what harm. We are going to have decentralisation shortly. I will be watching the Minister of State—

Are there any sites left in Mayo? Dr. Fitzgerald's Government sold the sites that were left.

We have no shortage of sites or land. I will be judging the Minister of State and his colleagues in relation to this and in relation to regional development, where they have failed Mayo and the west. With the downturn in the economy I do not see much future.

God help the country with that negative attitude.

I am nearly embarrassed to stand up and admit that I do not have a drop of country blood in my veins. I said "nearly" because I am not embarrassed to be from Dublin. I listened with great interest to what Deputy Ring said, and I preface my remarks by saying that I love Mayo. There is not much I can say to Deputy Ring in relation to some of the points he made, but I will give a commitment to spend some of my summer holidays in Mayo, as I did last year and the year before—

In fairness, I did meet the Deputy in Mayo once.

I have now been a Member of this House for 371 days. It is good to hear from colleagues that we all have the same problems. At the same time, we have to be parochial and loyal to our own constituents. I wish I could spend the time being proud about Galway or Mayo, but the fact is I have to be proud about Dublin. When I stand in the Dáil I have to talk about Tallaght, Firhouse, Templeogue and Greenhills because it was from those areas that 7,155 people sent me here. Others from the area sent Deputy Sean Crowe here. While taking the opportunity to support all colleagues, those of us privileged enough to be Members of the Dáil have a job to do as far as our own constituencies are concerned, and we must remain focused on that.

I have mentioned Tallaght on a number of occasions. It is now the third largest population centre in the country. It was said of Tallaght for a long time that it had the population of a city but the status of a village. Since the opening of The Square by a Fianna Fáil Taoiseach in October 1990, it has come on tremendously and has fulfilled an enormous amount of potential. Of course, it is still developing. We have the world famous Square, the institute of technology, the general hospital, civic headquarters, a number of libraries and the National Basketball Arena. As I said in the course of another debate last night, the Special Olympics will come to Tallaght, with the pitch and putt competition being held in Kiltipper, Tallaght and the basketball in the National Basketball Arena.

I do not know whether I am allowed to mention the Ceann Comhairle, but as many Deputies know, he always took a great interest in Tallaght and was hugely responsible for the early development of Tallaght Hospital. Tallaght is a great place of which I am proud. I am not a bit embarrassed to compete with colleagues, even more articulate and famous colleagues, in mentioning my town and talking about the needs of Tallaght and Dublin south-west.

I was cheered up a little this morning – the Minister of State will be happy to hear this – when I spent a little time, as I do every Thursday, reading the Tallaght Echo just to see if I or Deputies Sean Crowe, Pat Rabbitte or Conor Lenihan or even Senator Brian Hayes are mentioned. The paper talked about the live register figures falling. Happily, the figures for the past month fell again in Tallaght. That is positive, but we cannot take our foot off the pedal and must continue to stress the needs of our town. Last month, we suffered a huge blow when 121 jobs, with perhaps more to follow, were lost in Gallaghers. We need to keep focusing on the positives of our constituency and the needs of our area.

Deputy Ring has spoken very well about the west, but there are problems in urban areas like Tallaght, which, as I said, is the third largest population area in the country. It has a very young population. We need to stress the needs of the town and I will continue to do that on a regular basis. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, has been to Tallaght on a number of occasions, and we always take such opportunities to fight the good cause. This is not to compete with Mayo or anywhere else but to make the point about what we need in Tallaght and throughout Dublin South-West constituency.

As the House continues to enact legislation for the establishment of various new bodies, I continue to be a strong supporter of the need to have bodies which contribute to the future development of a changing Ireland placed on a statutory footing. Indeed, I spoke recently on the Digital Hub, an organisation of which I had very little knowledge until I chose to speak on the Bill establishing it. Having researched the organisation, I am now a strong supporter of its aims and development.

Today I find myself once again researching in detail the organisations for which this Bill will create an umbrella office. While I was aware of their existence, I must admit to never having looked at their extensive workload until now. The National Economic and Social Council, which has been in operation since 1973, has provided advice to the Government on the development of the economy and improvements in social justice in a period of dramatically changing economic fortunes, from the bad old 1980s to the rough early 1990s to the growth of the last five years.

With 111 reports covering many issues, the NESC has been an active body with a low public profile. The most controversial report in recent times was on the benchmarking provisions of the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness, which was a genuine effort to respond to the differences in earnings between the public and private sectors. Unfortunately, as is all too often the case these days, sectoral self interest ensured that benchmarking was relegated to being just a wage increase, rolled over into the current agreement, Sustaining Progress. It did not become the adjustment which the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness had indicated. This was a lost opportunity for public sector employees, who have now had to embrace a level of change over the life-span of Sustaining Progress that took the private sector more than 90 years to reach.

Going over the long list of reports which the NESC has produced, I congratulate it on its endeavours. I expect that under this new office, the work of the organisation will have a specific focus for the advancement of policy to support change for our future growth. I suspect it will have an expanded role as a provider of independent research for all Government Departments.

The House will be aware of the high level of expenditure by various Departments on research reports to justify, at times, an unwillingness to make use of existing expertise within the Civil Service. The reports then gather dust or, worse, get lost in departmental working groups. I strongly suggest that this new office should be the first port of call by Departments for their research needs in developing policy. Requests should only be tendered externally when they are outside the capacity of the office. This type of in-house service would more than justify an appropriate budget for the office and provide a secondment channel for the pool of expertise that exists within the Civil Service. The need for the NESC will be best justified when we as legislators and the Departments can use its reports to underpin the changes that are now a permanent part of all our lives and plan for the future.

In its ten years of existence, the National Economic and Social Forum has had a major impact on the social policy changes in that period. Its work in evaluating the implementation of policy and its involvement with equality and social inclusion has included issues such as long-term unemployment, income maintenance, the delivery of social services, early school leavers and social and affordable housing and accommodation. Like many constituencies, Dublin South-West has many problems in these areas, although on a positive note, the constituency is competing. We must continue to make our points to the Government and I am always happy to do so.

My experience as a Fianna Fáil Government backbencher has been very positive. It has been strange in the context of the views expressed by my colleagues on the other side of the House who seem to think that because we are on the Government backbenches we are incapable of thought and expressing our ideas. That is a myth. I am sorry that many journalists who frequent the House do not seem to know us. It seems that Fianna Fáil backbenchers who wish to be known must kick up a fuss, say something outrageous or do something to upset the Chair, but I am not prepared to take that route. I will stick to what I am doing and will use every waking moment of every day to represent my constituents in the House. It is why I contributed to this week's Private Members' debate on disability.

On matters of disability, community employment, education and health care, I have a role to play in notifying the House and the Government of the views expressed to me on a daily basis by my constituents on the streets of Tallaght and Dublin South-West. I know I have the support of the Minster of State, Deputy Treacy, when I say we must continue to support the disadvantaged and promote our social inclusion policy, which has been very successful over the past five years. This is especially important at a time when the economy is under challenge.

The NESF reports, especially those dealing with equality of access to hospital care, labour issues for older workers, early school leavers and lone parents show that it can be a strong and effective advocate of change. I hope its role in the new office will be strengthened in that its evaluations will become either performance targets for the relevant Departments to include in their strategic statements or an achieved goal for which the country is better off. I also congratulate the forum for its opinions on matters such as the national anti-poverty strategy, equality issues and Partnership 2000. I trust it will continue to make an input into the current Sustaining Progress agreement and the review of the national anti-poverty strategy. In this regard, I congratulate my colleague, the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, for the inclusion of key targets in the national anti-poverty strategy, as outlined in her Department's strategy statement.

The third part of the office, the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, is the new kid on the block. Since its establishment in 2001, it has yet to find its feet. I do not envy the task of the NCPP. It must introduce in the public and private sectors a spirit of partnership that seeks to circumvent the traditional opposition to change and overcome the entrenched psyche of empire building, confrontation and indifference that are prevalent in the modern working environment. A key work area for the NCPP will be the partnership process within Departments, where the changes required under Sustaining Progress and the roll-out of the modernisation programme of the Civil Service need to be embedded. The lack of structured communication channels and the lip service support offered by some Department managers will be a significant challenge.

The Bill follows what is becoming a standard format and I support the details. I wish the three organisations every success. I look forward to seeing their combined strengths being effectively used by all Departments and their roles being extended to ensure that the future development of society continues to take account of the needs of all our people. In this regard, it is important to understand that we are here to represent our constituencies. We take an honest approach to getting the best possible deal for them.

I am sorry Deputy Ring has left the House because while I admire what he said, it must be said in fairness that Ministers serve the wider country as well as their local area. They listen to their colleagues, although the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, would be the first to remind me he is from Galway. Progress is being made, albeit slowly in some areas. All constituencies are on the Government agenda and it is for all Members to represents the needs of their constituents.

I sometimes smile when I hear my colleagues from the west and elsewhere. While I support their views, I remind them that there are places in urban areas and in Dublin which have as many problems. When I was young I, like many others, emigrated. Deputy Ring reminded me of it. I spent a little time in England, in London. It did not do me any harm and did not affect my interest in politics. When I returned home I made a conscious decision on which political party to join. Throughout my political career there was often speculation about what party I might join and it was often said that had I joined another party I would have been elected to the House earlier, but I never took that view. I was happy with the path I took. I am happy where I am and with my position as a Deputy. It gives me pleasure on occasions such as this to express pride in my constituency, to talk about Tallaght, Firhouse, Greenhills and Templeogue and to represent the good people who live there. They are just as entitled to have their case made as those living elsewhere.

This is good legislation and is deserving of support. I congratulate the Taoiseach and the Ministers on introducing it.

I wish to share my time with Deputy Ferris.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

The majority of the debate on the legislation before us has centred on whether social partnership has been a success. I believe it has been very successful in that it has succeeded in creating one of the most unequal societies in the developed world. It has succeeded in maximising profits and minimising wages, in pushing the agenda of organisations like IBEC and their political wing, the Progressive Democrats. It has done all this at the expense of Irish workers.

In his contribution to the debate, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Kitt, said social partnership has served Ireland well. He should have clarified the section of the country to which he was referring. There has been great talk during this debate about the levels of economic growth stimulated by what Government members call social partnership. To talk about economic growth in itself is a deeply flawed way of determining the success of a country. James Connolly pointed out the flaw in such an analysis when he wrote that, "prosperity such as they speak of is purely capitalistic prosperity, that is to say, prosperity gauged merely by the volume of wealth produced entirely ignoring the manner in which wealth is distributed amongst workers who produce it." The success of the Irish economy is often described in terms of the gross national product or gross domestic product. These measures do not show how this growth in income is distributed among the population.

In terms of income distribution, Ireland is one of the most unequal countries in the EU and the OECD and these inequalities have been worsening over the period of partnership. Analysis of shares of income and other inequality measures show the same thing. In the mid-1990s the bottom 10% of households had approximately 4% of total income whereas the top 10% had about 25%. This was bad enough but between 1994 and 1998 there was a further redistribution of income away from the poorest towards the wealthiest. In 1987, 6.2% of households were below the relative income poverty line. By 2000 this had increased to almost 12% and one third of households were below 60% of the average income. These are the statistics of partnership that the Government does not use. This is the kind of Ireland created by partnership and which is to be sustained for as long as this Government is in power.

If a country has experienced a time of unprecedented economic growth, as this State has done over the last ten years, this alone is not good enough. A careful analysis from an Irish republican's perspective exposes the truth at the core of the partnership process, which is about maximising profit and exploiting labour. Far from delivering a more just society this process has in fact created wider divisions than ever before in Irish society. The gap between rich and poor has become a yawning gulf. Our health and social services are in continual crisis, the quality of life has deteriorated while the cost of living has soared and the productivity of Irish workers has increased. Their wages have not kept pace. During the 1990s output per head almost doubled, while at the same time between 1985 and 1999 the cost of labour fell by about 20%. There might have been a reduction in the cost of labour but there was no reduction in the profits made by big business. This is redistribution of wealth at its worst. Wealth is being taken from the people who created it, in many cases PAYE workers, and given it to the profiteers and speculators in the private sector.

This is the point that must be driven home. The wealth of this nation is produced by workers, not by businessmen and businesswomen or multinationals who take their profits out of the country. Workers have not benefited from partnership. One supposed protection for workers has been that the trade union leadership, an integral part of the social partnership process, would be able to influence Government policy. We were told it would deliver rights for workers in the area of trade union recognition. Seventeen years of social partnership and we still have not achieved the basic minimum. Instead, over the lifetime of the process we have seen anti-union legislation being introduced in the form of the Industrial Relations Act 1990 and the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Act 2001. In 1996 the community and voluntary sector was included as one of the social partners. Speaking on the debate earlier, several Government Deputies praised this element of the partnership process in particular. There is a growing feeling within that sector that this has resulted in a measure of institutionalisation into the structures of partnership, at the expense of local activities.

The community platform and Sinn Féin opposed this latest chapter in the social partnership process, Sustaining Progress. They did state, however, that while they oppose this agreement they were still committed to the process of social partnership and wish to continue to try and work with Government. They received a rude awakening from Government which booted them out of the process entirely. The Simon Community, which deals with homelessness, claimed that the Taoiseach misrepresented its position in the Dáil when he said that it rejected the proposals and the whole partnership process so it is out of the process. This is simply untrue. It rejected the deal, not the process that led to the deal. It would appear that the so-called partnership is now open only to those who fully endorse the Government's position. In this treatment the Simon Community perhaps saw exposed again the true nature of social partnership and the cosy cartel of Government and big business which gangs up on Irish workers every time a partnership deal is negotiated.

The Government is far from being a neutral player or honest broker. It is an ideological partner of IBEC. Partnership negotiations revolve around IBEC and the Government taking on the trade union leadership while the community and voluntary sector is ignored. When the community and voluntary sector raises its voice in opposition it is kicked out of the process and what does it oppose? Let us examine some of the statistics since the rate of return on capital doubled in 1987. This is one of the statistics that the Government is fond of quoting. I note that it has failed to point out that this means a corresponding decline in the wage share of the national income of almost 10%. By 1998 the profit share of national income had risen to 38%. This is even more remarkable given that the number of people in work has risen since 1987.

Internationally, Ireland experienced the largest increase in profit share among the European Union members, Japan and the United States. In other words, workers have lost out while business has profited. Even when times are harder, as they are now, the first instinct of this Government is to give business a tax break without another massive reduction in corporation tax. In order to fund this tax break it implements savage cutbacks in community employment, public sector workers and capital investment in schools, to name but a few. It abandons one of its election promises every day. Social partnership has failed Irish workers, it has failed the poor and the disadvantaged in Irish society. The legislation before us will do little to tackle the root cause of inequality in Irish society. It is little more than tinkering around the edge of the system. The workers saw through this and saw that with this system, inequality, poverty and disadvantage are inevitable, no matter what so-called partnership agreement is in place. Plato said there can be no partnership between the unequal, and he was correct.

The objectives outlined in this Bill are undoubtedly praiseworthy. It proposes to establish a new body that will enhance the excellent work conducted by the organisations that will be taken under the umbrella of the National Economic and Social Development Office. If we look at the functions of the new body we also find that its aims are all ones which any person interested in people's well-being would have to support. As outlined in sections 8 to 11 they include: to advise the Taoiseach on all strategic matters relevant to economic and social development; to submit reports, recommendations, and conclusions arising from research and surveys; to analyse and report to the Taoiseach on strategic efforts regarding the efficient development of the economy and the achievement of social justice; to advise the Taoiseach on policies to achieve greater social equality and social inclusion; to advise the Taoiseach on such matters regarding the deepening of workplace partnership in the public and private sectors, and so on. Nobody could disagree with that. These are perfectly valid objectives and ones which my party has no problem supporting.

It is quite clear too from reading reports such as those compiled by the National Economic and Social Council that the quality of research being carried out is of the highest calibre. However, it is also clear from reading the NESC report on investment in quality services, including enterprise, that while the Taoiseach and the Government may formally welcome such reports, they do not pay much attention to them. However, it is also clear from reading the NESC report, An Investment in Quality: Services, Inclusion and Enterprise, that, while the Taoiseach and Government may formally welcome such reports, they do not pay very much attention to them. That is the problem. For example, the NESC report draws attention to the need to address what it terms this State's "infrastructural deficit" in housing, public transport, roads and so on. It is quite clear from the Government's actions that is has paid no heed to the need to address those problems, the scale of which will become even more apparent over the next few years. It is making them worse by the kind of fiscal and structural policies it is implementing.

Sections of my area of north Kerry suffer from rural decline, with the last census showing a decline in the population. The business people of Listowel have come together and invested their money to put in place infrastructure such as access units for development and economic investment. The downside is that, because of the condition of the roads in that area, there has been no take-up of that facility for the past few years. That is the problem the people of rural Ireland face, and it must be addressed. However, that can only happen when such reports make a positive, active contribution. That is the essence of the difficulty which my party and I have with measures such as this. While there is a great deal of work being done on researching social and economic problems and the policy options available to tackle them, very little of that finds practical expression in measures put in place by the Government.

The current cutbacks across the whole range of services, including health, education and employment schemes mean that, not only is this Govern ment not acting on recommendations such as that to which I have referred, it is actively working against them, rolling back whatever small progress may have been made over the relatively prosperous years of the so-called Celtic tiger. Of course, when we draw attention to the consequences of the current cuts, the response is that we are now in a radically different financial situation and that the resources are no longer available to develop the social and economic infrastructure further or to maintain the current levels of provision which are under attack. The implication of that argument is that the resources were there, but were not used for infrastructural development particularly on the western seaboard and in the south-western parts of our country.

Anyone who doubts this need only ask a member of those groups who protested outside the House this week against the consequences of the cuts, for example, in the provision of services for the intellectually disabled or in the scrapping of 194 of 414 community employment placements currently available to assist the Irish Wheelchair Association in maintaining its day centres. Together with many other Deputies, I was outside the gate today, and it is heartbreaking to see people in wheelchairs having to come from all over the country to bring to the attention of the House and the present Government the neglect they are suffering as a result of the latter's cuts. When one goes outside the gate and talks to people in that situation and deals daily with the parents of children whose special needs cannot be met, one realises only too well the real consequences of fiscal rectitude.

It is not the case that there are no alternatives to making the disadvantaged pay for a situation they had no part in creating. As many of the reports emanating from Government-sponsored bodies such as the NESC and the NESF have made clear, there are other policy options. They have been outlined in reports such as that to which I have referred, and will no doubt also be contained in reports published by the new national economic and social development office, if and when it is established. The problem is of course that many of the recommendations of those who have extensively researched the relevant social and economic issues conflict with the current right-wing ethos of this Government. That is why they are being ignored. That is why the Government places the burden of blame for the downturn in the State's finances on those least able to bear any further reduction in their living standards. One need only look at the reduction in capital gains tax from 40% to 20% to facilitate those who speculate on the property market or the cuts imposed on those most in need in society.

Another interesting recommendation that came from the same NESC report concerns the extension of local democracy. As a former member of Tralee Town Council and a present member of Kerry County Council, I fully concur with that sentiment, as it is quite obvious that many decisions made on even the most basic issues concerning local people are decided centrally, with very little, if any, input from elected representatives. Tralee Town Council and Kerry County Council had the option, during the discussion of estimates, of increasing service charges or rates to raise money. That is the only way open. That is not what I understand to constitute representing people equally across the board. No matter what one does, one will be penalising either the housewife and those living in local authority areas or the small business that creates employment.

Yet the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, is on record as having said that local government is over-democratised. Is the Government over-democratised? Is it democratic that we penalise the poor? Is there a democratic mandate in this House or any part of local government to do so? This Government and successive predecessors are right-wing and exist primarily to facilitate those least in need. Deputy Cullen also wonders why local elected representatives should have a say on important issues. At least he is consistent as this is also how many important decisions affecting the environment are being made.

There is currently a situation in the Minister's constituency in Waterford, whose unelected port authority wants to allow a company to build an incinerator at Belview in south Kilkenny. The county councils of Waterford and Wexford have voted to oppose the incinerator. Yet the unelected county managers of both counties over-ruled their democratic decisions. This Government calls that democracy. A question must be asked about the purpose of creating and funding bodies such as that proposed in this Bill if their valuable research and recommendations are ignored. It is simply another effort to conceal the real intentions and consequences of this Bill.

Sinn Féin has no problem with social partnership as what it is reported to be – an equal sharing of power and responsibility between all those with a stake in Irish society and not simply an increasingly weak attempt to win the acquiescence of the workers and others who will bear the brunt of the current downturn in whatever cuts and sacrifices they will be expected to make.

I support the principles and proposed outline of the Bill. At the very least, it will ensure that Deputies and the public at large will continue to be supplied with top-quality research. We can only hope that the Government will also take some of its recommendations on board in forming policy. Otherwise, it will certainly be binned.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important legislative measure to establish the national economic and social development office. I was an Oireachtas representative at the first National Economic and Social Forum, which met in the early 1990s. The difficulties we faced as public representatives then were far different to today's problems, which arise in large part as a result of the success and growth of the economy. The two previous speakers referred to failed economic models. I heard those failed theories espoused in Marxist countries as well as the South American political theories of many years ago.

Most parliamentary democracies find the best judgment of the strength of an economy is the number of long-term unemployed. In the late 1980s and early 1990s we were constantly referring to the numbers of long-term unemployed but thankfully in recent years those numbers have reduced dramatically. There is one way to take people out of poverty and to provide equality, namely to put them to work. People can espouse any economic jargon or throw about classifications of others' beliefs but this Government and I stand for equality and putting more people to work. I am not right-wing and I do not classify others according to the wings they belong to, but in the early 1990s I did not receive calls from people having planning difficulties after coming home from America or England to build houses. Neither did the Ceann Comhairle, who shares my constituency. We were talking to young people who were emigrating to America, Britain or elsewhere to seek employment. That is not the case today, though unfortunately many of those who left in the 1980s or earlier for the United States are still classified as undocumented. The Ceann Comhairle and I were at a meeting recently which was addressed by members of the US Congress. They said legislation was due before both Houses of Congress of the United States on 11 September 2001 to improve the position of those people in America without proper accreditation. Unfortunately international terrorism intervened and the terrible atrocities in New York and Washington obviously put that legislation on the back burner, if it is ever in fact to see the light of day.

In Cavan-Monaghan and other Border constituencies we dealt constantly with people who were being harassed at checkpoints and having difficulties with both paramilitary organisations and British institutions. Thankfully that era is behind us since the 1990s. All the Ulster counties, particularly those south of the Border, suffered immensely because of paramilitary activity and the Troubles.

What about the British presence?

Deputy Smith without interruption.

I will deal with that. Can I continue?

Does that not exist?

It does exist.

I am making a point.

You are not entitled to make a point. You are not entitled to interrupt Deputy Smith's contribution. You were allowed to make your contribution without interruption and Deputy Smith is now in possession.

Thankfully those difficulties, which all Border county public representatives faced, are now behind us. We welcome that progress, which has been driven by those who believe in politics and democracy. The Border economy suffered immensely during that period and it will take longer than we would like for it to catch up with the rest of the country.

We had huge numbers of long-term unemployed and no inward investment. The policies and partnerships begun in 1987, which involved Government, trade unions, employers, farming organisations and the community sector, have acted as a catalyst in improving economic conditions in the country. That is the simple reality. The point at which people entered the tax net is now twice as high as it was a few years ago. There are jobs all over the country, though we need more of those jobs in rural areas, and we must address the imbalance between the east and west coasts. However, we must all admit there has been a huge improvement in the provision of infrastructure and job creation.

We often think only of major firms from America or Europe and forget the role of the county enterprise boards which were established by the Government in 1992-3. Those boards are locally accountable and local public representatives as well as representatives of other bodies participate in them. The boards were given a remit to create 8,000 jobs from 1994 to 1999 but during that period they created 18,087 jobs, more than twice the target. From January 2000 to December 2002, 8,500 jobs were created with the assistance of county enterprise boards. Those jobs are welcome and by their nature they are dispersed quite evenly throughout the Twenty-six Counties.

I mentioned emigration earlier. All of us saw at first hand the devastation caused to many communities, particularly in rural areas, by the departure of their young people. Thankfully that trend has been reversed and there is an increase in population in rural areas. In the census period 1996 to 2001 the population of Cavan increased by 7%, the first increase since the Famine. That is replicated, though at higher percentages, in other rural counties but for Cavan, which is not at the forefront of economic development, that 7% increase is particularly welcome.

Public representatives in rural areas now face difficulties with planning issues. This was not the case some years ago when the people were not there to populate the countryside. Thankfully today people are staying at home and returning to the country to avail of job opportunities, so there is a demand for housing. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government made a huge investment in the provision of water and sewerage schemes throughout the country. He identified in particular the need to provide infrastructure for smaller towns and villages and by providing that he ensured housing could be provided to ease pressures on the housing market in larger towns and urban centres. That investment is paying dividends today as we see our smaller towns and villages with new housing schemes provided by both local authorities and the private sector.

A previous speaker referred to the schools building programme being abandoned, which is absolute nonsense. The greatest investment in the school building programme is under way this year. Throughout the length and breadth of this country, there are new school facilities of the most modern design.

Debate adjourned.
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