Joan Burton
Question:110 Ms Burton asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the number of civilian casualties to date in the recent war on Iraq; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21066/03]
Other Questions. - Foreign Conflicts.
The Government does not have any information on casualty figures other than those readily available in the public domain. These usually vary between 8,000 and 15,000. My officials have been in contact with relevant multilateral organisations on this matter but none of the organisations involved was in a position to give us such figures, as they either did not compile them or could not guarantee their reliability.
Does the Minister not agree that it is a matter of moral shame for everyone that sufficient attention has not been directed to the loss of life of between 8,000 and 15,000 civilians as a result of this conflict in Iraq? Does the Minister agree that one of the reasons why the estimate varies so widely, between 8,000 and 15,000, is because, as some of the international agencies to which he referred have said, one cannot rely on the counting the bodies that arrive in cemeteries or morgues because people have not been able to transport bodies for burial?
The loss of the young people from the United States and Britain who are fighting someone else's war is tragic, but it tells us something very significant about ourselves, namely, that such little attention has been paid to civilian casualty. The Minister is now telling the House that one cannot put a figure on the direct civilian casualties. How would he respond to the question of indirect casualties as a result of the failure of electricity, contaminated water, etc.? Some of the critics writing in the papers stated that those of us who opposed this war were wrong to do so because we were wrong about the number of people who died. Not enough people died quickly enough for some of the columnists. We asked what would happen if Baghdad was blanket bombed, as had been threatened. I am thankful that half the population was able to leave the city.
There is a comprehensive silence in respect of the civilian casualties, direct and indirect, and in respect of the continuing problems associated with the absence of such electricity and clean water as is needed. The doubling of the amount of raw sewage entering the River Tigris from Baghdad is quite scandalous and the Minister should note that this should be receiving as much attention as everything else. Our media might put it to him that he should offer an opinion and maybe he wants to do so. I will offer an opinion: it is quite outrageous that the completely militarised embedded media simply do not consider it worthwhile to write about such loss of life. There is an extraordinarily high level of loss of civilian life.
To add to Deputy Michael Higgins's question, in view of the fact that there is a lack of media exposure of what is happening on the ground in Iraq, has the Minister any intention to visit the region before or during Ireland's EU Presidency? If so – I know he has a lot on his plate and I am not suggesting that he simply go there without an agenda – it would certainly result in the Irish and European media concentrating more on what is happening on the ground.
Will the Minister comment specifically on the official in his Department who dismissed the claim about weapons of mass destruction?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
Is this relevant to the question?
Yes. The reason the people in question were killed is because we were told there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but this turned out to be a total lie. I want the Minister to tell us about the article in the Sunday Independent because it is damning.
It is interesting that the Deputy finds it damning because up to now he has been accusing me and my Department of being poodles of the coalition forces.
I am accusing the Minister.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
No further interruptions.
I am thankful that I am now hearing that I have very competent officials, as I already know, who are well able to give their views on matters.
Why did you not take—
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
Order, please.
I am explaining to the Deputy that he jumps around his argument to suit his little game.
My game did not result in the deaths of 14,000—
Far from being poodles of coalition forces, we have no problem giving our views on any particular matter. I thank Deputy Gormley for finally acknowledging that we have some independent thinking in our Department.
The Minister used weapons of mass destruction.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
Order, please. We have almost run out of time.
On Deputy Gay Mitchell's point, I cannot predict from this distance what action I will have to take during our six month Presidency of the European Union. As he knows, we are in a very fluid situation. There are already discussions taking place at the Security Council. We have not got over the first hurdle yet, which requires a substantial UN resolution that meets the necessary requirements and inspires confidence in the international community that we are progressing in such a way that the sovereignty of the Iraqi people can be restored as quickly as possible consistent with security and political developments. I ask that whatever discussions are taking place at Security Council level be brought to a conclusion as quickly as possible. I hope a resolution will be reached before the donors' conference in late October so that conference will have some possibility of success and so the much needed reconstruction work, as referred to by Deputy Michael Higgins, can be progressed quickly in a more secure environment.
I agree with the Deputy in that I regard the loss of any life as a tragedy. War and military action are tragedies and there is no one here who holds a brief for these. Unfortunately, however, the International Committee of the Red Cross is not in a position to provide more specific figures than those I have been able to provide thus far. It will be difficult and may take a long time to obtain an estimate better than that with which we are dealing. The number of victims of Saddam Hussein's regime will be uncovered in the months and years ahead in the same way. Let us accord to all of those concerned the dignity of knowing that we regret greatly the loss of any life under the regime or as a result of the military action that took place.
Written answers follow Adjournment Debate.