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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Oct 2003

Vol. 573 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Order of Business today shall be No. 21a, motion re Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Powers and Functions) Bill 2003; No. 5, Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 27, statements on European Council meeting in Brussels, to be taken not later than 2.10 p.m. and the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) No. 21a shall be decided without debate; (2) the proceedings on No. 27 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and the statements of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; (ii) Members may share time; (iii) immediately following the statements, the Minister for Foreign Affairs shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; (3) the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 4 November 2003.

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21a without debate agreed?

What exactly is the Tánaiste proposing here? Is it in some way curtailing the rights of the House to assess the Bill? It appears we are discharging an obligation that would be on the Minister to come before the House. Perhaps the Tánaiste will clarify why this is being done.

What we are doing is referring the Bill to the committee.

My reading of it appears to be a little bit stronger. The Tánaiste is actually saying an obligation to come before a committee of the whole Dáil is being discharged. Presumably that obligation was included for some reason. Perhaps the Tánaiste will clarify the reason and why we are now discharging the reason.

I understand it was an error which is being corrected.

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 27 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the adjournment of the Dáil today agreed?

We cannot agree to this. To be frank, it is inexplicable that we should seek so soon after our return to the Dáil to take a week's break. I believe all Deputies will be here next week. There is a perfect opportunity for the Dáil to sit. There are many pressing issues, not least the issues in Northern Ireland, which we hope will come to a resolution.

So far the Government has published only two Bills out of its promised list while some 20 Bills are awaiting Second Stage debate. There are many pressing issues that we hope to see from Government in regard to upcoming Bills, not least in the Minister's area of responsibility, covering Garda reform, disability and road traffic reform which appears to be stuck in a siding. It is impossible to understand why we would take a recess at this time. Yesterday the Tánaiste launched an initiative on corporate responsibility to stakeholders. However, the Minister and the Government are not willing to be accountable to their stakeholders, namely, the elected representatives and the public at large. I heard her colleague say how benchmarking must deliver real reform in the Dáil as everywhere else. Where is the real reform if at the first drop of the hat we are going into a week's recess? Nobody among the wider public will understand this. It is damaging to the credibility of politics and should be abandoned.

I too oppose this measure on behalf of the Labour Party. I raised this matter during Question Time on Tuesday last, in terms of the damage being done to the standing of the Dáil by the proposition from the Government that the House would go into recess yet again. There was no justification coming forward on Question Time and there is no justification that the Tánaiste can advance now. It does not really matter whether the Tánaiste proffers the explanation that the House will be sitting in committee. The promotion of the business of the Dáil outside of these gates will be that, whether the committees are sitting or not, if the House is not in session the Dáil is in recess, that Deputies are in their constituencies, in Spain or wherever else occurs to whoever is doing the promoting.

At a time when the Northern Ireland peace process is in such a fragile condition, when the Ulster Unionist Council is scheduled to meet on Wednesday and in a context where the Government is happy to accept the support of the Opposition on the Northern Ireland project, to exclude the House from any involvement when there are such momentous developments that may or may not come to fruition in Northern Ireland, is irresponsible. The only objective of the Cabinet, including the Tánaiste, is to spend as little time as is feasible making itself amenable to this House. The last place it would choose to make an announcement about any initiative or major policy is inside the portals of the House. That is not acceptable. It damages the standing of Parliament, standards in politics and our democracy. I ask the Tánaiste to permit the House to sit as normal next week?

We are only getting back into our stride, some 12 sitting days after the summer recess. It is unacceptable for us to contemplate a week in which there will be no Dáil sittings. The reality is that while the country gets a bank holiday the Dáil gets a "bank holiweek". It is not in tune with the real world. We need to deal not only with Dáil reform but to have this type of issue dealt with without any major song and dance. This is a straightforward matter. There should not be a recess next week. I can understand that the Government, given its hard times and not wishing to be criticised, does not want to be accountable to this House. Its job is to be democratically accountable. It is not good enough for the House to take a break and put the country on automatic pilot without the Government being accountable to the people through the Parliament. Effectively, that is what is happening. While the country is experiencing political thunderstorms and lightening of one type or another, the Government decides it is okay to go on automatic pilot. It is not. Northern Ireland is in a fragile state. We need to be here and to be able to respond. We need to have a collective input into dealing with the issues. It is irresponsible of the Government to contemplate next week as a holiday. We should be here and the Opposition is prepared to be here.

Hallowe'en is obviously a time that young and old enjoy traditionally in Ireland.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ó Caoláin without interruption, please.

I have the scariest mental pictures of the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach trick or treating or whatever in their respective constituencies. When we look at the legislative record I do not believe a single Bill has completed its passage since we resumed after the summer recess.

The Deputy is wrong. I had a Bill passed here yesterday.

I understand there are 48 EU directives which the Taoiseach would like to see in place before the commencement of Ireland's Presidency, yet only five are listed in the legislative programme. When will all this work be addressed? Will it be another situation where all that will be rushed through in advance of the Christmas recess and that there will be guillotine after guillotine, inadequate debate after inadequate debate? What we are doing next week is losing important and critical time to carry out our roles, functions and responsibilities.

I join with other colleagues in the Opposition parties in urging the Tánaiste to reconsider the proposition and to allow the work of the House to proceed in the coming week.

As anticipated by Deputy Rabbitte, the committees of the House will meet next week. The Government will meet regularly and there is no question of people going off on holidays.

The Taoiseach is opening a swimming pool today.

Some people took an elongated holiday this year.

As to the dual mandate, one could be in the European Parliament, in this House, on a county council and on the Council of Europe and still have enough time for the Dáil.

Allow the Tánaiste to speak without interruption.

They are hypocrites. The Government is closing down the Dáil, county councils and the country.

Sorry, Deputy Ring—

That is a declaration for Europe by Deputy Ring.

I hate hypocrisy.

Deputy Ring, Deputy Richard Bruton made the contribution on behalf of your party. The Tánaiste is entitled to make her contribution.

She can make it next week and we will all come up and listen to her. The Dáil should be sitting.

Will the Deputy please obey the Standing Orders of the House?

As a matter of interest, the Taoiseach is attending the Forum on Europe this morning.

He is down at Breaffy House opening a swimming pool while Dublin is floating away.

That is tonight.

That is where he is and he is opening Abbeyview nursing home as well. That is where many Members on the Government side should be.

A Deputy:

The Deputy might need it yet.

The Taoiseach is attending the Forum on Europe this morning and will be in Mayo tonight. I presume the Deputy will be there. There will be plenty of time for the Deputy to get there.

He is opening a nursing home and a swimming pool.

Deputy Ring, I shall have to ask you to leave the House if you do not—

(Interruptions).

Four Members from the Opposition were allowed make their contribution without interruption. The Tánaiste is entitled to the same courtesy and the Chair will insist that is afforded to her. If the Deputy continues to interrupt he will leave the House.

Wherever he goes there will be a welcome for him.

We would all like to think that the time we spend in this House could be used more productively. We all have much to do to make that a reality. As the House is aware, the Minister for Education and Science has standardised the school year. All schools will be off next week. There are some Deputies who are looking forward to spending some time with their children next week. For a whole host of reasons I cannot agree to the request of the Deputies opposite. I should say to Deputy Bruton that I did not launch an initiative on corporate social responsibility. I presented certificates or charters to those on behalf of another organisation that has excelled in this regard. I understand also that Deputies Sargent and Kenny want to go to the North next week. They indicated that yesterday and if the Dáil was to meet we would not facilitate that visit.

Question put: "That the proposal for the adjournment of the House be agreed to."
Tá, 55; Níl, 47.

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Martin.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.

Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Cregan, John.Curran, John.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Tá–continued

Fleming, Seán.Glennon, Jim.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Lenihan, Brian.McDaid, James.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.

Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Nolan, M.J..Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Walsh, Joe.Wilkinson, Ollie.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Costello, Joe.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J..English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Gregory, Tony.Harkin, Marian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Hogan, Phil.Howlin, Brendan.Kehoe, Paul.Kenny, Enda.Lynch, Kathleen.

McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.McGrath, Paul.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.

It is disappointing that we are going into recess now with so little Government legislation for this session. I ask specifically about the legislation, which I know is close to her heart, to drive a programme of regulatory reform to make this country more competitive. What has happened to the transport regulation Bill? We had a discussion paper published in August 2000, which was to have been followed by consultation, but not one step has been taken in the direction of transport reform.

The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste launched a programme of regulatory reform in April 2001, following the OECD report two and half years ago. We have not seen any legislative reforms emerge from this. Will the Tánaiste say if she and her Government are serious about an agenda of regulatory reform to make services more efficent?

The transport reform Bill is not expected until next year.

Four years on.

The Minister for Transport has been in office only a year.

What went on before?

It is the Tánaiste's Department.

Will the Tánaiste inform the House about promised legislation? I overheard the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, claim on national radio some weeks ago, around the time the Tánaiste left him swinging on the religious deal and he was under pressure, that he had brought forward the Garda Síochána Bill. Of course he has not done anything of the kind. He published heads of a Bill with great fanfare last August, but there is still no sign of the Garda Síochána Bill, notwithstanding its urgency. Will the Tánaiste say, assuming that relations have been repaired between her and the Minister, whether we can see the Bill in the House this session?

The heads of the Bill were approved and published by the Minister some time ago. I understand it is expected to have the Bill this session.

As the Tánaiste may know, 40% of the farm gate value of field vegetables grown in my constituency means that I am going to raise a question on agriculture, about the Bord Bia Bill in particular, but I am not sure if that is the right Bill. Will the Tánaiste say if there is legislation promised in the Department of Agriculture and Food to deal with the enforcing of the regulations that have been around for about 12 years concerning the labelling of food as organic? Apparently, in the reports in the Irish Examiner today—

The Deputy has made his point.

—the Department has done nothing for 12 years on this matter. Is there any legislation she can point to that would indicate there is some plan for the requirement of the labelling of food as organic?

I presume the labelling of food is dealt with under the regulations currently in place. The Bord Bia Bill is to amalgamate An Bord Glas and An Bord Bia.

Will the Tánaiste indicate when the regulations on safety in the workplace will be put before the House? Second, there is some indication that there is a delay in the publication of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board Bill. Will she give an indication as to when the PIAB will be up and running?

On the smoking ban, if that is what the Deputy is talking about, those regulations have been cleared by the Cabinet. I understand the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, will be publicising the regulations later today or this week.

They are not in the House.

They will be laid before the House in the normal way. I expect to have the PIAB Bill within the next fortnight and we are on target to have it in place at the beginning of January next year, hopefully with the support of the Deputies opposite.

In relation to the proposed reforms in the health service and the Brennan report, will the Tánaiste say how it is that a state of the art accident and emergency unit in Blanchardstown can be left locked and closed—

That does not arise. I suggest the Deputy should submit a question to the Minister for Health and Children.

It is a question. In her time off next week, could the Tánaiste visit? The Brennan report promised that the health service was to be managed respectably and we have a closed state of the art A & E suite—

Deputy Burton is being disorderly.

The legislative programme promised before the ending of the current session that a Bill to reform the recruitment and appointment process of the Civil Service would be brought before the House. Will the Tánaiste indicate the stage at which the public service management, recruitment and appointments Bill is currently at and if it will be before the House before Christmas? On a related matter, does she expect that a programme of decentralisation will soon be announced by her Government colleagues?

The second question is not in order.

The Bill in question is expected this session.

Will the Tánaiste tell the House if the No Name Club, the youth organisation, can continue to hold its discos in licensed premises in view of the recent legislation? As the Tánaiste knows, those discos are held without alcohol being served. This is a bank holiday weekend—

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

This is a very serious matter for young people. Could the Tánaiste ask her colleague to give us a direction on it today?

Of course it is but the Deputy can deal with it in a structured way by submitting a question to the appropriate Minister.

We are not trying to stop anybody dancing.

That is a relief.

That is a flippant reply.

Does Deputy Connaughton have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

This is about legislation that has just been passed and I want to get an answer from the Tánaiste on whether the youth clubs can use—

I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister.

I have done that and it has taken the Minister a long time to answer.

Is the Tánaiste aware that the Educational Welfare Board had to come out publicly yesterday to demand €25 million in the forthcoming budget in order to fulfil the statutory duty, which we gave it?

That matter does not arise. The Deputy can submit a question to the appropriate Minister.

This involves children who drop out of school. What is the point in passing legislation if it cannot be implemented?

Is the saving of lives on the road through curbing excessive speed to now become as big a racket as clamping in Dublin, with speed cameras to be handed over to private firms?

It is not a racket.

Does the Deputy have a question on legislation appropriate to the Order of Business?

This is absolutely appropriate—

The Chair will decide what is appropriate. Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?

Yes. I want to know when the legislation, proposing to take road safety from the public sector and hand it over to private operators, which is said to be due at some stage next year, will come before the Dáil?

On the same issue-—

A battery of cameras is needed to monitor the headlong drive towards privatisation by this Government.

Is the legislation promised?

On the same Bill, which I understand is the road traffic Bill, will the Tánaiste indicate when it will be published and enacted because the Minister has been in office for 17 months and has enacted only one Bill dur ing the period. Can the Tánaiste give a commitment that the Bill will be enacted before 2005?

Yes. I understand that legislation will be published and hopefully enacted next year. It is a priority for the Minister for Transport.

The Tánaiste is aware that the Government is about to appoint consultants to advise on the implementation of its plans to break up Aer Rianta. The contract for the consultants is to last eight months and one aspect of the brief is to advise on legislation. In light of that, what is the timescale for the production of the State airports Bill, to provide the legislative base for the break-up of Aer Rianta?

It is the intention of the Government to have that enacted this year.

When can we expect the Bill's publication?

Very shortly.

Is the Government not waiting for the consultants to advise?

Not on legislation.

That is what the brief says. Will we see it before Christmas?

That is the intention.

The Deputy cannot discuss the content of the legislation.

I notice that the Government has a group of proposed legislation on air transport, the air navigation and transport Bill, the State airports Bill and the air navigation Bill. Will any of these Bills impact on the ongoing dispute in Dublin Airport?

We cannot discuss the content of the Bills. When will legislation come before the House?

I am sure that the Tánaiste is very concerned because the people who are discommoded at the airport are very concerned.

The Tánaiste on the legislation.

As the Deputy is aware this is an industrial relations issue and does not require new legislation. I regret very much that the people in question did not heed the request of the Chairman of the Labour Court in this matter.

The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources signed four regulations as part of the new European Communities regulation package for electronic communications networks earlier this year. The provision for the retail broadcasting services is not covered. That affects the charges imposed on companies such as Chorus. Has the Minister any proposals to introduce draft regulations or legislation to remedy this situation and to control the excessive costs being imposed willy nilly by Chorus and other companies throughout the country?

Is legislation promised?

Yes. The Minister made four regulations on foot of an EU directive and we are the first country in Europe to do so. The retail sector requires primary legislation and that will be forthcoming as soon as possible

Will it be retrospective in respect of charges?

I do not know. I am not sure it will apply to charges in the way the Deputy suggests.

Is the Tánaiste aware of the dangerous practice of pregnant women who work outside the home asking their gynaecologists to give false dates of delivery in order that they can spend more time at home with their children after the birth? Is it intended that the parental leave Bill, which is due next year, will extend the amount of time that parents can spend with their children after the birth?

Not unless they are members of the Dáil in the new family-friendly environment.

We cannot discuss the Bill's content. When will the Bill come before the House?

I am delighted that Deputy Lynch is interested in family-friendly policies. I share her concern about these matters. I would not expect a gynaecologist to sign false certificates. The parental leave Bill will come before the House next year. It will give effect to the recommendations of the working group review on parental leave.

Will the Tánaiste try to ensure it covers this matter?

I will try.

Deputy Fiona O'Malley has expressed strong views on the productivity of the House and benchmarking.

When she is here.

I am sure there is a good reason my constituency colleague could not be with us this morning. Can the Tánaiste explain why no other member of her party, the watchdogs in Government, was able to be with us this morning to vote on the proposition that the productivity and accountability of the House be adjourned for a week?

Some time ago the Government indicated it would provide time to debate the Hanly report, which is an extremely important report on the future of Irish hospitals. An equally important report on radiotherapy treatment and cancer treatment was published, albeit on foot of the pressure coming from the Ombudsman. Will time be made available for that debate or will it be encompassed within the debate already announced on the Hanly report?

I do not have dates for the legislation on the reform of the health services.

The Tánaiste was not listening to the question.

I apologise, I was slightly distracted.

The Tánaiste should tell Deputy Smith to sit somewhere else.

The Chief Whip sent me a very provocative note. I apologise.

I understand the Tánaiste was distracted. There is a promise to debate the Hanly report in the House and time is allocated for that. Recently a very important report on the future of radiotherapy and cancer treatment was published. Will there be a separate debate on that report or will it be subsumed into the debate on the Hanly report? Its content is quite different and it is extremely important.

They are separate issues and I will discuss that with the Minister for Health and Children.

Something has just occurred to me.

Give us a break.

(Interruptions).

The minerals development Bill—

That is very important. We are all talking about it.

The purpose of the Bill is to implement the commitment in the programme for Government, which refers to reforms and proposals for delivering better Government. In view of the commitments given to publish two important pieces of legislation in this area, is there a possibility that they will be delivered before the Government leaves office?

The minerals development Bill and the other Bill to which the Deputy refers are expected next year.

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