The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 4, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2003 – Second Stage (Resumed); and No. 24, Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 – Second Stage (Resumed).
Order of Business.
There are no proposals to be put to the House.
I have raised on a number of occasions the effective workings of the Dáil. Legislation exists which requires that all matters relevant to European Union directives and regulations be referred to the Sub-Committee on European Scrutiny. This did not happen in regard to the proposal for funding for embryo research. When this matter was brought to the attention of the House, the sub-committee referred it to the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business. Members of all shades of opinion on that committee unanimously recommended that Ireland would not support funding for embryo research within the European Union. I understand that the Tánaiste indicated this morning that the Government will be supporting this, without her having had the opportunity to return to the committee to debate the matter or without the House having had the opportunity to discuss it in a general sense.
It is a contemptuous way to treat the members of the committee and the House that a Government statement should be made on the national airwaves without a matter being discussed in the House, the national forum of the representatives of the people. It is here that this kind of decision should be made. I respectfully suggest that the Tánaiste should not have carried on her business in the way she did earlier this morning. She should, as she said she would, have returned to the committee, explained her position and taken cognisance of the unanimous decision of its members in making a recommendation to the Government that Ireland should not support funding for embryonic research.
I do not know if Deputy Kenny heard what I said this morning, but he asked the Taoiseach about this issue yesterday on Question Time. The Taoiseach made it clear, as he has on a number of occasions recently, that the Government was voting for controls and regulations. Under European Union law, money can go to embryonic stem cell research. That was adopted when the Sixth Framework Document for research was agreed and there is a moratorium on spending that money until we have regulations. The moratorium runs out at the end of this year. The Government has been asked to vote in favour of or against regulations, control and guidelines.
I very much look forward to going back to the committee. I made that clear last week and the week before and I am more than open to doing so. The European Parliament will also deliberate on this matter next week. I have given a commitment to the Deputy, as did the Taoiseach yesterday, to appear before the relevant committee to discuss the issues that arise on this matter.
The Tánaiste is going to the committee to outline her position. The committee has made a strong and unanimous recommendation and I expected that she would have gone to the committee before she made a public announcement in the national media.
She should follow the example of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
We cannot have a debate on the matter.
I seek your indulgence, Sir, to permit me to refer to exchanges that took place in the House yesterday between the Minister for Transport and myself. During those exchanges I referred interrogatively to the Minister in a manner of words which has a construction capable of being put on it that I did not intend. I want to make clear that, whereas I believe the question of a second terminal at Dublin Airport is dictating the decision on Aer Rianta, I did not intend the construction that is being put on the words I used and I want to take this opportunity to withdraw that.
Is it the intention of the Government or the Minister for Transport, as reported in today's newspapers, to introduce legislation later this month to enable the break up of Aer Rianta, given that discussion has only now commenced on the complexities of the issues involved and given that negotiations have only commenced with the trade unions? Having regard to the wide-ranging implications of the issues, including the matter raised by Deputy Connaughton earlier, does the Minister intend to bring the legislation before the House as early as the end of this month?
I understand the discussions under way, which are to end by 5 December, do not relate to policy issues and decisions that have been made by the Government and it is the Minister's intention to bring legislation before the Government shortly, with a view to its publication before Christmas. I do not know whether it will be November or December but the Minister's intention is to publish the legislation before Christmas.
On 24 December.
What was reported in the newspapers this morning presumably did not appear out of the blue. Somebody said legislation would be brought before the House before the end of this month. That is manifestly not the case.
I cannot be definite as to whether it will be before the end of November or before we break for Christmas. There is a number of weeks.
If the legislation is not approved by Cabinet, how can it be introduced before the end of this month?
We cannot have a debate on this.
The intention is to bring the legislation before the House before the Christmas recess.
Is the Government not waiting for the consultants?
When can the Minister for Defence and I expect legislation arising from the recommendations in the Hanly report? Will that affect legislation such as the medical practitioners Bill and the nurses and midwives Bill? Will the recommendations give rise to new legislation or will they be addressed in the current legislative programme?
That question was dealt with earlier this week.
This is promised legislation.
I cannot give a timeframe for the legislation. However, the Hanly report will be debated again next week and I understand it does not have any legislative implications.
Who will be in charge next week?
With the Book of Estimates scheduled to be published this afternoon, would it not be appropriate that the House should continue its work tomorrow to address it in a special debate rather than the Government, at the last moment, reluctantly conceding to a debate in the coming week?
The Deputy has made his point.
Given the serious matters that may well be contained in the Book of Estimates—
We cannot have a debate on the Book of Estimates. I call Deputy Stagg.
—including significant increases in health care charges for accident and emergency services and hospital beds, are we being asked to pay more for less in regard to health services?
The Deputy is out of order.
I refer to two matters. Will the Tánaiste confirm that time will be made available next week for a debate on the Estimates? When will that be and will it take a full day?
Could the Tánaiste arrange for Naas hospital to be excluded from the Hanly report, similar to Nenagh hospital?
The Estimates will be debated on Tuesday and Wednesday next week.
What about Naas hospital?
What about Nenagh hospital?
What about Monaghan hospital?
I refer to the forestry (amendment) Bill and the Estimates debate. Which Minister has responsibility for forestry? Will it be the Minister for the Agriculture and Food or the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources?
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
It does. I have asked about legislation and I want to know who will be the sponsoring Minister.
The Bill will be introduced next year and the Minister for Agriculture and Food will sponsor it.
Following the revelations yesterday in the media and in the Dáil that tens of thousands of euro will be levied by local authorities on new houses at the behest of the Government, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government subsequently said the money would not be levied on—
Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Yes.
We cannot have a Second Stage speech as a preliminary to an appropriate question.
The Chair must hear one or two sentences because—
I do not have to hear the Deputy. I want to hear what legislation he is talking is about.
There is legislation. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was out like a light on the plinth saying those levies would not be passed on to the first-time house buyer.
Does the Deputy want developers to pay nothing?
The Deputy is out of order. The matter is more appropriate to a parliamentary question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I will hear a question on legislation to the Tánaiste.
Promised legislation arises because those who control—
It does not. Legislation was passed in 2000.
This is most unfair.
Is legislation promised?
No.
No legislation is promised. I call Deputy Ring.
This is most unfair. There is legislation.
The Deputy is in the House long enough to know the Standing Order. The Tánaiste says legislation has not been promised.
But how can we prevent speculators from—
The Deputy should table a parliamentary question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
The Deputy's problem is that he builds no houses at all.
This is most unfair.
That is the Deputy's problem. Is he building a house at all?
He would not pay for it.
Or for the bin outside the house.
The Government housed Deputy Higgins for a few weeks.
More and more people are going to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul because they cannot live on social welfare. When will the charities regulation Bill be introduced because people will have to look to charity rather than to the Government?
Next year.
The Tánaiste stated no legislation is needed to implement the Hanly report. Two weeks ago the Taoiseach stated in the House that legislation would be necessary. Will she please correct that?
As I understand it, there will be a Bill governing the overall reform of the health services, which the Minister for Health and Children will bring forward as soon as possible. However, legislation will not be necessary as far as the Hanly report is concerned.
(Interruptions).
I call Deputy Ó Snodaigh.
A Cheann Comhairle—
I have called Deputy Ó Snodaigh. I will call Deputy McManus when her turn comes. We must have some order in the House.
On a point of order, there is a lot of confusion in the area of health – let us not have any more confusion. David Hanly made it clear—
That is not a point of order. I call Deputy Ó Snodaigh.
—and the Minister made it clear that two legislative changes were required under Hanly. One related to nurses and one related to the training of ambulance staff. There were to be two specific pieces of legislation. Now we hear a totally different story from the Tánaiste.
That is not a point of order, Deputy.
Let us have some clarity.
I ask the Deputy to obey the Chair.
There is a nurses Bill promised, as Members will be aware.
Yesterday the Taoiseach said he would try to have Ireland fully compliant with EU directives. There are 48 EU directives outstanding across a range of Departments but, according to the legislative programme, only three are accounted for and none of the relevant Bills is due until next year. How can we become fully compliant with 48 EU directives between now and Christmas? The Taoiseach said we would be compliant in time for the Irish Presidency of the EU on 1 January next.
The Government is working towards speedy implementation of the outstanding directives. As the Deputy will be aware, not all of them require legislation – they are implemented by way of secondary legislation. A whole host of directives will, I believe, be transposed by the end of this year. By the start of our Presidency, we hope to have substantially reduced the number of directives outstanding, some for technical reasons and others for other reasons to do with difficulties in their transposition in this country. A new team of people has been recruited and made available to Ministers to help with the technicalities and legalities of transposing those directives.
In view of increasing evidence of a multi-fisted approach by Government to various important national issues and the increased danger of damage from friendly fire, is it intended that all Ministers will be issued with hard hats similar to that of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, and will it require legislative change under health and safety legislation?
Nenagh hospital will be ringed and protected by the Defence Forces. On promised legislation, the Minister for Health and Children has said, in respect of Hanly: "I have no doubt this will be manipulated and used for political purposes. I would say to anyone. . . . ."
Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
"—to listen very carefully in terms of what is being said."
That is not an appropriate question, Deputy.
"Anyone who opposes Hanly needs to be challenged to produce a substantial and comprehensive alternative."
Deputy Rabbitte is out of order. We must move on.
Will the Minister for Defence, Deputy Smith, be asked to produce—
I call Deputy Boyle.
May I put a question to the Tánaiste?
Yes, if it is appropriate.
It is. In respect of collective Cabinet responsibility, is there now something called the doctrine of geographics that exists for certain Ministers?
The Deputy is out of order. He will have to find another way to raise that issue.
The only two Ministers who appear to be in agreement—
The Deputy is being disorderly. I have called Deputy Boyle. If Deputy Rabbitte will not allow him to speak, we will move on to next business.
A Cheann Comhairle—
The Chair has ruled. I have called Deputy Boyle.
I want to ask if the Minister for Defence will stick to his guns.
Ministers and other Members should allow Deputy Boyle to speak without interruption.
In view of the proposal by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to take responsibility for Spike Island and the Curragh prisons away from the Prison Service, is it intended to introduce parallel legislation to the Prison Service Bill? It would appear that this particular Bill will not cover the running of those prisons in future, with particular reference to the educational services at Spike Island Prison.
There is no legislation required. It is not the Minister's intention to close the prisons referred to. There are issues with regard to overtime and industrial relations which may require that in the short-term, but that is not the intention in the longer term.
(Interruptions).
That matter was debated on the Adjournment last night. I call Deputy Shortall.
As the Tánaiste is aware, consultants have recently been appointed, at considerable expense, to advise the Minister for Transport on the very complex issues involved in the break-up of Aer Rianta. The view of the Minister for Finance is that the sensible thing—
Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
The view of the Minister for Finance is that the Cabinet should wait until the consultants report in eight months' time.
That does not arise on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Gilmore.
I wish to ask the Tánaiste if she supports the point of view of the Minister for Finance in that regard. Surely it makes sense to wait.
I have called Deputy Gilmore. Deputy Shortall is out of order. She will have to find another way to raise that matter. If she will not allow her colleague to speak, we will move on to next business.
Since the view of the Minister for Finance is—
I ask Deputy Shortall to resume her seat, otherwise she will leave the House. I call Deputy Gilmore.
Legislation is promised to establish the national infrastructure board which the Taoiseach announced at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis. Has the Government yet considered a memorandum on that legislation or the heads of a Bill? At what stage is the preparation of that legislation?
There have been discussions in the Cabinet sub-committee on infrastructure, but the Government has not yet been presented with the heads of that Bill. It is hoped that will happen shortly.
In view of the fact that 140 multiplied by 200 equals 28,000, will the Tánaiste ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to withdraw his remark that people are scaremongering when they speak of a possible levy of €28,000 on a 200 sq. m. house?
That does not arise on the Order of Business. The Deputy should address a question to the appropriate Minister.
When will the local government (rates) Bill come before the House?
A Deputy
Soon.
(Interruptions).
I seek your assistance, a Cheann Comhairle, in endeavouring to—
A Deputy
That may be somewhat optimistic.
—have the rights of Members acknowledged in this House. At a time when the Minister for Defence had no difficulty in going public to outline his position with regard to the Hanly report, he is refusing to answer legitimate questions from elected Members on matters relating to their constituencies.
The Chair has no control over the answers to questions.
The Ceann Comhairle will be aware that, on 5 November, I wrote to him to look after my rights and those of my constituents on the—
Sorry, Deputy, we cannot discuss the matter now. If the Deputy has a problem, he should come to my office to discuss it. There are ways of dealing with such matters, but the Order of Business is not one of those. I call Deputy Michael D. Higgins.
I have a problem. A legitimate question which was submitted last week for oral answer by the Minister for Defence met with his refusal to answer it. It was in relation to alleged harassment in the Air Corps and the privatisation of the Air Corps search and rescue service. The Minister refused to answer it.
I ask Deputy Ryan to allow his colleague, Deputy Michael D. Higgins, to speak. The Chair has no control over the answers to questions and I do not believe any occupant of the Chair would want such control.
As the Deputy has written to you—
Yes. If the Deputy has a problem he should drop into my office.
As Chairman of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, will the Ceann Comhairle put this on the agenda for the next meeting? There is a problem about answering questions.
If the Whip wants this discussed at that committee he should notify my office to put it on the agenda for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Earlier the Tánaiste answered a question from Deputy Boyle regarding the Prison Service. The impression might be created that Prison Service legislation is not promised but a Prison Service Bill is on the list of promised legislation and it is urgent for a number of reasons.
Does the Deputy have a question on Prison Service legislation?
When I raised this previously the answer has always been the same – it is not possible to indicate when the legislation will be presented. In view of all the private initiatives being taken by the Minister—
We cannot have a debate.
—which stop just short of chain gangs, it would be appropriate if we could have a definite date for the Prison Service legislation which will put the service on a statutory basis. That is our business.
The Deputy has made his point. We are moving on.
The Tánaiste has not answered.