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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 Dec 2003

Vol. 577 No. 3

Other Questions. - Northern Ireland Issues.

Olwyn Enright

Question:

47 Ms Enright asked the Minister for Education and Science if he or officials of his Department have met with officials from the Department of Education in Northern Ireland to discuss the comprehensive and thorough system of vetting that is in place there; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30973/03]

A joint working group on child protection was established by the North-South Ministerial Council and is composed of officials from my Department and the Department of Education, Northern Ireland. The group submitted its report to the Council who agreed on the broad approach taken and signalled its desire to have detailed proposals for legislation prepared. The main thrust of the proposals is to provide structures through which people who are a risk to the safety of children can be prevented from being employed in schools. Most of this information I have given earlier. The proposed legislation would comprise of the establishment of a register on a statutory basis for persons who are considered unsafe to work with children; a framework for co-operation and liaison between the relevant bodies in the health, justice and education spheres as well as between agencies in Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales; and provisions relating to access to the register with due regard to child safety and the rights of individuals named.

A cross-governmental working group has been established by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to consider proposals to reform the vetting of employees by the central vetting unit run by the Garda Síochána. The group, which is chaired by a chief superintendent, has met on six occasions and is expected to report in the near future. Work by my Department on the preparation of a draft discussion paper is at an advanced stage. Its completion is dependent on the recommendations of the group to which I referred.

We have discussed this already. The Northern Ireland system is in place 20 years, so it is fairly well advanced. The Minister has indicated he does not want to discuss future legislation. Does he envisage a system similar to that in Northern Ireland or one that could be more comprehensive and less bureaucratic? The system in the North is good, but it is operated across two government departments, as well as the PSNI, which is cumbersome.

I hope we will learn from the experience in Northern Ireland. The Deputy has had a good look at the system and she will agree that there are good and bad aspects to it. It has much to recommend it, but it is bureaucratic. Much of the bureaucracy arises because of individuals' rights. We would hope in particular to learn from the experience there, and, while safeguarding rights of the individual, we will aim to make it more accessible for people who need to have that access. The major objective is to ensure that the systems to be put in place, both North and South, will be the same. That may mean that the Northern Ireland system will be somewhat changed in the light of experience.

Does the Minister know the reason for the delay in the interdepartmental group's report? It was meant to report in November. Does he envisage expanding the limited vetting available within the Department in the meantime? He referred to bus escorts and special needs assistants. It will take time to complete the consultation process with the Northern Ireland authorities.

I have no immediate plans to expand the vetting procedures because we are trying to develop the report's recommendations and to advance work in that area. It would be futile to take that approximately only to have to change it later. If I thought the work of the group would continue indefinitely, I would be prepared to reconsider.

The working group was due to report by the end of November. It is a few weeks overdue. The group considered that further work was required on the report to finalise it. It is expected to have its work completed by the end of this month. Whether that is being optimistic or not I do not know, especially as the best part of ten days at the end of this month will be lost. According to my note it expects to be finished this month.

Is the Minister aware that youth organisations, voluntary bodies and sporting organisations are worried about the lack of legislative measures in this area? In the meantime has he any advice for those organisations with regard to codes of conduct or how they might advise their workers – especially voluntary workers – who interact with children and young people?

I appreciate the point of the question the Deputy is making, but I believe many organisations, particularly in the sport and youth areas, have codes of conduct. In the youth area generally, at least two separate codes of practice exist. The Deputy may be using the opportunity to get me to issue advice. My advice is that all organisations should have a code of practice to protect the young people in their care and to protect workers and those who volunteer from being the subject of gossip, rumours, false accusations or whatever. An important balance between the two positions is necessary, but I would join with the Deputy in urging that codes of practice and conduct should be put in place.

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