Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Mar 2004

Vol. 582 No. 4

Air Navigation and Transport (International Conventions) Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Dr. Cowley

Knock Airport has experienced growth of 25% while the scheduled growth for the airport is 60%. That is a massive growth rate to 400,000 passengers a year. This compares to a growth rate of 250,000 passengers last year. This makes Knock one of the fastest growing airports in Europe. One can imagine the impact this growth is having on the BMW region and we need this to continue. It is obvious that Knock has the confidence and support of all the people of the west and beyond. When the airport was being built, all the people of the west chipped in and became part of the vision of Monsignor Horan to develop Knock Airport as a truly international airport. It is a pivotal part of the infrastructure of the BMW area.

The same confidence should be displayed by the Government. I am aware that the Government has supported Knock Airport and the Minister for Transport and other Ministers have been to Knock. That is appreciated by the people of the west, but the support must continue. The Government should provide €30 million that Knock currently needs. This should be a top priority as it is such an important catalyst for development.

The phenomenal growth at Knock Airport, one of the fastest growing airports in Europe, is outpacing resources and a bigger plane is required. A new Glasgow route has been introduced. As the service to Manchester is provided by a 50-seater BS city express plane, which cannot cope with the demand, it is being replaced by a 148-seater 737 jet. If the Government does not provide the necessary support, this phenomenal growth will end and stunt the growth of not just Knock Airport but the whole BMW area.

Knock has never been regarded as an international airport by the Government nor has it been given the support such an airport deserves. When one considers that Knock International Airport provides a service to the greater BMW area, it cannot be denied support by Government. If the Government provided the necessary support to the airport, the future of the BMW area would be much more secure. Knock International Airport is being treated as a regional airport, not as an international airport. This is unfair when one considers that the runway at Knock is 2,300 metres. It is the third largest runway in Ireland, ahead of Cork Airport. Only Shannon and Dublin airports have longer runways. Cork Airport received more in one year than Knock Airport has received to date for its development.

Passenger growth at Knock International Airport is comparable to any airport in Europe and it is comparable to Cork and Shannon. It is a truly international airport, catering for international passenger numbers. However, Government support does not reflect this international qualification. Government support must match the massive growth and enormous potential of Knock Airport. When one considers the support given to Cork and Shannon airports, courtesy of Aer Rianta, Knock must deserve some level of equal investment. One might ask for what will the money be used. It could be used for the development of aircraft landing equipment, aircraft handling equipment and aircraft safety equipment. It could be used to develop the airport terminal building and for the development of commercial facilities at the airport.

If Aer Rianta gave this support to Knock, there would be great hope for the airport. The arrivals area needs a larger building. The entire terminal building needs to be developed. Commercial facilities are necessary to make more use of the existing resources. Knock International Airport represents a huge opportunity to achieve greater regional balance, particularly for the north west and the west of Ireland. The airport is the single largest project which can deliver for the BMW region. That is evident. It needs continued help from Government to ensure this happens. It requires an injection of €30 million.

I listened to my colleagues today speak about Shannon Airport and the open skies policy. Open skies should not be just about Shannon Airport; it should be extended to Knock, Cork, Dublin, Derry or wherever. The debate should go beyond Shannon. I welcome the open skies development. The sooner this is in place the better. I wish Shannon well. It has done very well for that region.

Dr. McDaid

The Deputy is anti-Shannon.

Dr. Cowley

I am not anti-Shannon. I am for development of the west. Some 50% of flights must stop at Shannon.

Dr. McDaid

The Deputy wants open skies.

Dr. Cowley

I want open skies, but I want this to be extended to other airports also. This would be in keeping with international competitiveness. What is happening currently along the entire west coast of Ireland is not in keeping with balanced regional development. If Knock is to develop as it should, the open skies policy must operate there. Over the next three years, it is estimated that approximately €30 million will be required to provide the same services at Knock as there are at Cork and Shannon airports.

I was pleased to hear the Minister, Deputy Ahern, speak about An Post in the Dáil yesterday. He said that rural post offices are paying their way and that over the years this House, regardless of what party was in Government, was regularly in convulsions about rural post offices. He said we were constantly told that rural post offices should close because they were a millstone around the neck of the postal service. He said the post office system was profitable today, about which I am delighted. He said it was profitable because it went to the trouble of taking on extra business such as the AIB contract and the payment of utility bills such as the ESB bills. He said the two big millstones around the neck of An Post is the letter post service, which has increased by approximately €20 million or €30 million a year in recent years, and the SDS delivery service.

Rural post offices are in profit and carry the rest of An Post. This is an amazing turn around because, not so long ago, we were told that rural post offices should close. Let this be a lesson to Government. If there is confidence in rural areas and in the west, things can be different. There is great potential in the west, north west and the entire BMW area. The Government has made a difference by supporting rural post offices and allowing this service to continue. This confidence needs to be displayed across the board in services for rural areas. The reason there are such problems in the west, and that an area in my constituency is considered the most deprived according to the census, is that the Government has not provided the funding for infrastructure. This is unfair because that money was obtained on our backs. This was the area that needed the money. People are aware of the under spending in the BMW area. The mid-term review of the national development plan points to under spending in the west and to over spending in the east and south east. There is no rationale for this. Why should half our graduates have to go to Dublin to get their first jobs when they would prefer to live in the west of Ireland? What is the point of bringing more people to Dublin, which means more cars, bicycles and so on, and where traffic moves at the pace of the ass and cart of the last century?

The way forward is to provide €30 million to Knock Airport to provide true balanced regional development. If the BMW region was developed, our graduates would not have to travel to Dublin to get their first job. They would not have to add to an already over-populated city. We should develop industry and infrastructure in the BMW area and provide jobs locally. When one recalls what SFADCo did, why can there not be a SFADCo for the Knock and BMW region?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am reluctant to intervene but the Chair is having problems trying to decide how what the Deputy is saying relates to the provisions in the Bill.

Dr. Cowley

What I was saying relates to the development of airports and the need for infrastructural development in the west, for which Knock Airport is the catalyst.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair still has a problem finding a relationship between the provisions in the Bill and the case the Deputy is making.

Dr. Cowley

I suppose I have taken some latitude on Second Stage. I support airport development and investment in services. This Bill has an important role to play by introducing the convention into law. It is a part of modern life and we must ensure that internationally accepted standards apply in Ireland. No matter what legislation we put in place, however, the Government must support Irish airports. Knock International Airport deserves the support that the other airports receive. It is a catalyst for the whole BMW region.

Mr. B. O’Keeffe

We have heard a great deal about the west and Shannon Airport but it is now time to mention the real capital of Ireland in the debate and point out the situation at Cork Airport relative to Shannon Airport and Dublin Airport.

When we review the make-up of Aer Rianta to ensure development in the regions, we should examine the position of Cork Airport under the umbrella of Aer Rianta in the past. Passengers in Cork can be drenched before leaving the airport because of a lack of air bridges. The airport terminal was built for 700,000 passengers per year but it now caters for 2 million passengers per year. Carriageways to deal with those people and their luggage are inadequate and there are major hold-ups in processing passengers and insufficient parking. In spite of this, Cork Airport has been voted the most effective, best managed and friendliest airport in Ireland two years in a row.

We have heard about the need for a regional airport in the west and everyone accepts that but huge amounts of money have been ploughed into them through the EU while Cork Airport did not qualify as a regional airport. Aer Rianta looked after Dublin and Shannon but left Cork out of the loop for many years. In response to Deputy Pat Breen's comments on Shannon Airport, while it had a €1.2 million marketing budget, Cork Airport had €300,000. Until we spoke out, the marketing budget was €150,000 per year. Now at least we have €400,000 for marketing but still Shannon enjoys a marketing budget of €2 million and we are trying to compete with that. Offers are being made through Shannon with which Cork cannot compete because of the lack of marketing funds available.

Staff in Cork are concerned about what will happen in the future but they need be under no illusion that under the new structure they will be better off and more money will be available for marketing. We want a level playing field, something we do not have with Farranfore in County Kerry. The price to fly to Dublin from Farranfore is much less because there is a subvention that does not exist for passengers from Cork.

Mr. P. Breen

There is no subvention for Shannon Airport.

Mr. B. O’Keeffe

It costs €140 return to fly to Dublin from Cork on Aer Arann and we are delighted with that service. The people of Cork provide the numbers to ensure it is a profitable service but the price of the return trip to Dublin from Farranfore in County Kerry is €70, a major difference in price.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are well away from the content of the Bill. A passing reference is acceptable but to go into detail to this extent is outside the scope of the debate.

Mr. B. O’Keeffe

Having listened to the debate, the Ceann Comhairle knows that previous speakers made a play for their regions. Coming from County Monaghan, the Ceann Comhairle understands that I have to make a play for my region.

An Ceann Comhairle

One of my predecessors in the Chair this afternoon has already drawn attention to this.

Mr. B. O’Keeffe

Questions must be asked of the Minister. I am delighted there will be a new terminal in Cork Airport and that part and parcel of it will be the air bridges, the additional carriageways and the growth in passenger numbers. I ask the Minister of State to guarantee that there will be a level playing field and that issues related to the terminal will be resolved. There have been rumours that the cost of the terminal will be borne by Dublin Airport because of the exigencies that exist and that Cork Airport will be starting from a position of no debt. Is that achievable, particularly if Cork remains within Aer Rianta?

There is also a suggestion that there will be a pay-back because Aer Rianta will borrow the €150 million for the new terminal. Cork Airport has been asked to provide a business plan to show how it can meet the repayments. This is a serious matter for the people of Cork. We must have a level playing pitch in the event that it is decided to make Cork Airport a standalone facility. This will require that it will not have to meet the repayments for the new terminal, which should have been built years ago but was not developed due to a lack of direction from Aer Rianta and a lack of commitment to Cork. In such circumstances, the airport will continue to thrive, passenger numbers will increase and it will become an outstanding facility. This will not be feasible, however, if the airport starts out with the millstone of €150 million in repayments around its neck. It and the people of Cork deserve better and need an assurance that this will not happen.

We in Cork will be delighted regardless of the type of open skies arrangement that is introduced. On each of the many occasions that individuals proposed regular charter flights into Cork Airport, they were stymied by the current closed door policy. Shannon Airport in particular has been able to close the door on Cork. We look forward to the competition and opportunities that will result from an open skies arrangement.

I assure the Minister of State that Cork Airport will flourish and increase the business it has generated despite restrictive practices. It has massive potential for realising growth in domestic, European and United States routes. We need the opportunities offered by an open skies agreement and the sooner such an arrangement is introduced, the better for the Cork region.

Mr. McGinley

Tá luachair orm deis a bheith agam cúpla focal a rá ar an Bhille tábhachtach seo. Aon rud a bhaineann le haerfortanna nó le héitleáin, tá sé iontach tábhachtach sa lá atá inniu ann mar go bhfuil muid uilig ag brath ar éitleáin ár n-iompar ó áit go háit ar fud na tíre agus an domhain. Is Bille é seo a aistríonn an Coinbhinsiún Montreal agus a chuireann i bhfeidhm na dlithe agus reachtanna a bhí ag Coinbhinsiún Warsaw. It is important that airlines adhere to the same conditions, regulations and insurance provisions throughout the world. The legislation is an effort to achieve global harmonisation of the regulations and upper rating conditions applying to airlines. In its discussions of the legislation and the contributions of party spokespersons, the Fine Gael Party has supported the thrust of the Bill.

Perhaps I will be able to extend parliamentary licence and discuss, as other Deputies have done, an airport of immediate concern to me. Deputy Pat Breen is interested in the mid-west, whereas Deputy Cowley is interested in the west. Like the Minister of State, therefore, it would be remiss of me not to mention the north-west which has two airports. Derry Airport is a modern facility with regular connections to Dublin, Glasgow and other destinations. I have used it a number of times and it serves the region well.

I am particularly interested in Donegal International Airport in Carrickfinn, which began as an airstrip in the 1970s and has since developed into a modern airport. Visitors from home and abroad are surprised at how developed it is. In every sense of the word it is a gem, particularly given its spectacular location on the Atlantic coast of west Donegal. Only last Wednesday or Thursday a group of travel agents from America and the Continent who visited the airport as part of the launch of a new holiday company were impressed by the airport's facilities and friendly staff and the breathtaking scenery around it.

It is important for Donegal, particularly the west of the county, that it has such a state-of-the-art airport, which includes many facilities developed with significant investment. As the Minister of State will agree, however, the airport has not been developed to its full potential. It currently offers one daily return flight to Dublin financed under the European public service obligation scheme. Considerable effort and lobbying was required to get this far.

Initially, the flight to Dublin used to leave Carrickfinn at approximately 2 p.m. arriving at around 3 p.m. By the time one arrived in the city centre, everything was closing down which meant the benefits of the flight to the residents of County Donegal were limited. The service was geared towards tourists and people travelling for weekends, with local people who wanted to attend a hospital or other appointment in Dublin being forced to stay overnight. After much lobbying and many meetings, we finally succeeded in having the schedule tailored to meet the needs of the area. An Aer Arann flight now leaves at 8 a.m. arriving in Dublin at 8.45 a.m. I can now leave west Donegal at 8 a.m. and arrive in Dáil Éireann at 9.30 a.m. Similarly, I can leave the House at 5 p.m., arrive in Dublin Airport at 6 p.m. and land in Donegal before 8 p.m.

The service is a tremendous boost for the area, as demonstrated by the excellent seat occupancy of the flight, which must be among the highest in the country. Sometimes it is almost impossible to get a seat if one has not booked well in advance. It took us a long time to reach the current position and there are now plans to commence a second daily return flight from Dublin on 2 June, which will be available for four months of the year. I understand the flight will leave Dublin for Donegal at 2 p.m. and begin the return trip at 3.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am reluctant to intervene but as I have pointed out to previous speakers, detailed discussion of issues of this nature is not relevant when debating a Bill of limited scope. While passing reference to issues not covered by the Bill is acceptable, detailed discussion of them is not.

Mr. McGinley

I understand, a Cheann Comhairle, and I hope to be guided by the traditions of the House. It is not often Deputies have an opportunity to discuss Carrickfinn and the needs of County Donegal.

When the next contract is being given out — I think there is an extension until June 2005 — I ask that the airport in Donegal should be given two return flights to Dublin a day. Kerry and Galway have three or four, Sligo has two or three and currently Donegal has one. Donegal has no train service. Donegal airport is probably the most remote regional airport in the country and I cannot understand why it should not have at least two return flights to Dublin a day. The population and demand for those services exist. If such services were provided, the response from the people would be forthcoming. They have already shown their response in respect of the morning and evening flight and if another flight was provided, I am sure their response would also be forthcoming. I do not want such flights to be confined to the Donegal-Dublin route. Why should we not have flights from Donegal to Glasgow — given the constant traffic between the two areas — and from Donegal to other UK cities? The Minister of State is familiar with the airport in Donegal and with what has been happening there.

Up to last year the search and rescue service of the Air Corps was based at that airport, but for some reason it was withdrawn to Finner. I can understand that, but it is now located in Sligo. The search and rescue element of the Air Corps will be terminated shortly and the Air Corps will no longer have responsibility in that area. It has been decided to privatise that service. I also understand that the search and rescue service of the RAF which was located in Northern Ireland has been withdrawn from Northern Ireland to some part of the United Kingdom, Scotland and elsewhere. Therefore, such a service would be required for the whole of the Northern region. Perhaps that decision should be reconsidered and some service should be located in the north-west, preferably in Carrickfinn or even in Sligo, which would enable the Air Corps to maintain its presence there. It has provided a great service down through the years.

Only last Saturday I had occasion to call upon the Air Corps to request it to bring people from Tory Island whose relative was critically ill in Letterkenny hospital. It responded, but the weather was rough and it could not fly back. It offered to fly there on Sunday morning, but fortunately the ferry was able to travel and bring those people back. We are very much dependent on air navigation and air transport.

We have an airport facility in Donegal. The Minister of State is aware of its location. He has been there and has promoted and launched a number of schemes there. I hope that when the PSO is being renewed, probably in June 2005, Carrickfinn will be considered for the second return flight to Dublin every day. That would be only 50% of what Kerry has. In saying that I do not mean any disrespect to Kerry. I am not against Kerry and it is entitled to those services. I have travelled there and I am aware it also has a high seat occupancy on those services, but I cannot understand why Donegal should have only 25% of the services other regional airports have. I rest my case.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Dr. McDaid)

While many Deputies used the opportunity presented by this Bill to put forward the positions in their locations, and I am sure that if I were sitting on the other side of the House I would probably have done the same, as the Ceann Comhairle pointed out many of the points raised by the Deputies did not appertain to the Bill

I will deal with the points raised by Deputies and respond to the accusations made. I thank all the Deputies for their contributions. They all welcomed the Bill, which was good to see. The Montreal convention has been welcomed. There was criticism that it took so long to ratify it. The delay introducing the Bill was due to the events of 11 September and other issues.

A number of issues were raised regarding Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta, Shannon Airport, Knock Airport and the other regional airports, but most of them do not relate to the Bill. Therefore, I will deal with the issues raised that relate to it. The issues raised which were noted by the Minister yesterday and by me today will be taken on board on Committee Stage.

Deputy Breen raised the issue that passengers and their dependants might have only 21 days to make a claim. However, article 35 of the convention allows for this period to be up to two years.

Deputy Breen and other Deputies raised the issue of the applicability of the convention to military aircraft. The provisions of the convention apply to international carriage of passengers or cargo for remuneration. That would include any carriage by Irish State or military aircraft, which would fall under that category. However, article 57 of the convention is an opt-out clause for States which do not want to use it. This country has no plans to use that opt-out clause. The purpose of section 8 is to expressly reflect in the Irish legislation the provisions of article 57 and we will not opt-out of the provisions of that section.

Deputy Shortall raised the issue of the provision in the Bill for making orders. This issue is of a technical nature. Such a provision already exists in other legislation. We will consult the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel regarding the technical sections of the Bill and we will inform the Deputy in that regard on Committee Stage or Report Stage.

There was reference to the use of the French text, which was included in the Warsaw convention. This has little or nothing to do with the Bill. It has been pointed out to me that in the 75 year history of the Warsaw Pact such text has never had to be used. In any event, the Montreal convention will eventually supplant the Warsaw convention. It is drawn up in a number of languages, including English, all of which will be equally authentic.

Deputy Ryan asked if it would have been possible for the Government to have ratified the convention by means of secondary legislation. I have been informed that on that basis it would not have been possible, as our Constitution clearly envisages it had to be laid before Dáil Éireann because it is an international agreement.

Deputy Crowe referred to the delay in ratifying this convention. I mentioned that the delay was due to the events of 11 September and the divisions of the Department that had to deal with those tragic events. The Deputy also asked about the position of the ten accession states. I understand that eight of the ten have already accepted it.

The Deputy asked about the €20,000 in damages in respect of mental illness. During the diplomatic negotiations that led to the Montreal convention the issue of compensation for mental distress was raised. However, it was decided not to include this issue in the convention in view of the extensive legal precedents in this area in many of the states. The Bill contains provisions to enable an Irish court to provide the same compensation for mental distress as provided for in the Civil Liability Act 1961, as amended in 1996. The Civil Liability Acts currently provide for compensation up to £20,000 or €25,000 approximately and any adjustments to that amount by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will automatically apply to this Bill without the need for further amendments to Air Navigation Acts.

With regard to other matters related to Shannon Airport which some Deputies raised, Deputy Killeen and Deputy Breen have made passionate contributions on a number of occasions in that regard. Those matters are not related to the Bill, but I understand from where the Deputies are coming. This issue is currently being decided at EU-US level. A question was raised by the party of which the Deputy opposite is a member recently to the effect that we should abandon those discussions. I asked would the Members prefer if they were abandoned, that we put our heads in the sand and not allow the US to know exactly from where we are coming.

Mr. P. Breen

Who is putting on the pressure for this?

Dr. McDaid

Four member states of the EU have a problem with an open skies policy. It is not that we cannot get over that, but we have the UK, the Greeks, the Portuguese and ourselves. Even at the last Council of Ministers meeting I made a contribution in that regard. I am not going to get into a argument with a commercial airline. However, on occasions I have heard people compliment Aer Lingus on coming from a state of requiring resuscitation, to criticising it for some of the decisions it has had to take. I accept that by some of its recent actions, Aer Lingus has not shown that Shannon is high on its agenda but that has not been the policy of the Government or its Deputies who have shown how they felt through their actions. I assure the House that Shannon Airport remains important to the Government. As was pointed out by the Deputy Pat Breen's own colleagues, there are some excellent services.

Mr. P. Breen

The services are being eroded all the time.

Dr. McDaid

Aer Lingus is a commercial company but services are being developed by the Government, Enterprise Ireland and the Irish Aviation Authority. My Department has made transport provisions there. I do not know whether the Deputy is aware of them.

Mr. P. Breen

What will happen to Shannon Development?

Dr. McDaid

NOTA, a huge expanse of the north Atlantic, has been taken over by the Irish Aviation Authority which means we control practically all aircraft over the north Atlantic now. This is a new arrangement to which no one has paid any attention. As Deputy Naughten and others have pointed out, with the accession to the EU of ten countries, who is to say that Shannon will not become the central hub for all of that?

Mr. P. Breen

The Minister of State should push for it.

Dr. McDaid

Yes. We are examining all those areas and I assure the Deputy that Shannon remains a high priority. It is a good air freight hub to which Deputy Naughten also referred. The US-EU talks are continuing and we will raise these matters at the June Council meeting to see if they have progressed. I have to admit that at the last Council of Ministers meeting, because of the other countries which did not have solutions to their open skies such as the UK, Greece and Portugal, it was thought unlikely there would be any settlement of this issue until well after the US presidential election. However, we made a positive contribution to the meeting, outlining Ireland's position on Shannon Airport.

Deputies have criticised the fact that we are not putting resources into local airports and there was talk about Knock and other airports. I am being criticised for the amount of funding we have invested in Knock. The newspapers have stated that Knock Airport is costing us €560 per round trip but I do not listen to that type of criticism. I admire the authorities at Knock Airport for what they have achieved as a regional airport. Deputy Cowley does not understand that the airport has an open skies policy — anyone who wants to can fly into Knock. Charter flights can fly into Cork and Knock. The problem is in regard to scheduled services.

Mr. P. Breen

There are not enough scheduled services.

Dr. McDaid

This is the point. The current agreement with the US means that no scheduled services can fly into Cork or Knock airports. We are trying to re-negotiate these agreements to ensure scheduled flights can go in. However, as it stands, that is the agreement we have. The Deputy is aware four new bases have been suggested be opened into the US. That is a doubling of the bases——

Mr. P. Breen

They are very seasonal routes.

Dr. McDaid

The Deputy should let me finish. The bases are in Dallas, Philadelphia, Orlando and San Francisco. Why can Aer Lingus not think about taking some of those flights into Shannon?

Mr. P. Breen

There should be more.

An Ceann Comhairle

For the sake of consistency in the Chair, while I appreciate that these issues were raised in debate although they were outside the scope of the Bill, I would prefer that when the Minister of State is replying to them he makes a brief reference to them rather than going into detail. Strictly speaking, they are outside the scope of this legislation.

Dr. McDaid

In the single skies situation which has applied over Europe, vast spaces were controlled by military aircraft so civil aviation aircraft had to fly around them. We have had significant advancements in that area. I will not refer to Aer Lingus again since it is a commercial entity. However, the Government has a political commitment to Shannon Airport.

Jurisdictions were another issue raised in this convention. These are provided to make it easy for passengers or their dependants to take compensation cases. In other words, one can now take a compensation case if one lives in one country, is travelling to another country or is travelling between countries. That part of the convention had been causing difficulty. It is not intended that people would be able to "jurisdiction shop". Rather, it makes it easier for people to bring compensation claims.

In regard to air accidents, under the Montreal convention, passengers would be entitled to more compensation and everyone has agreed that is to be welcomed. A great deal of latitude has been given to Deputies in this debate and I did not get an opportunity to respond to all the points. However, I understand what the Chair had to say. I started out this debate with three pages and I have ended up with 14, so one can appreciate the amount of ground covered by Deputies today. We will deal with these issues on Committee and Report Stages and the Minister for Transport has dealt with most of the other issues on numerous occasions in this House.

Question put and agreed to.