Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Jul 2004

Vol. 588 No. 4

Barron Report: Statements.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell)

I express the Taoiseach's regret that he is not able to be present in the House today for these statements. He initiated this process following a meeting with the Justice for the Forgotten group on 22 April 1999 and he remains deeply committed to the victims and their families and the search for the truth surrounding these terrible atrocities. As Attorney General at the time, I was centrally involved in these developments and can testify to the commitment of the Taoiseach to getting to the truth of that series of terrible events. When I was on the Opposition benches, I was aware of the Justice for the Forgotten group and assisted on an all-party basis with a group of Deputies from all sides of the House in an effort to promote the group's cause at a time when it did not have that many friends.

The Dublin and Monaghan bombings left an indelible mark on the people of Ireland. They did not simply affect Dublin and Monaghan. Those who were so cruelly blown away on that day and many of those who suffered such terrible injuries, came from all walks of life and from all over the country.

The Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings, whose sole member was at first, the former Chief Justice, the late Liam Hamilton and later Judge Henry Barron, began its work in early 2000. It was asked to undertake a thorough examination involving fact-finding and assessment of all aspects of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and their sequel, including the facts, circumstances, causes and perpetrators of the bombings; the nature, extent and adequacy of the Garda investigation, including the co-operation with and from the relevant parties in Northern Ireland and the handling of evidence, including the specific analysis of forensic evidence; the reasons no prosecutions took place, including whether and if so, by whom and to what extent the investigations were impeded; and the issues raised by the "Hidden Hand" television documentary broadcast in 1993.

This was to prove a difficult and time-consuming task. The events being examined took place 30 years ago and many of those who were centrally involved at that time are since deceased. Accessing records both inside and outside the jurisdiction proved difficult and, in some cases, was simply not possible. In particular, arising from the non-availability of records in Northern Ireland, the scope of Mr. Justice Barron's report was, as he described it, limited as a result.

Mr. Justice Barron drew conclusions relating to the terms of reference given to the commission. I do not propose to go into all the conclusions in his report in detail, save to say that the report sheds a great deal of light on what happened on that day, why it happened, who was responsible and the actions that ensued.

Key among Mr. Justice Barron's conclusions was that the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were carried out by loyalist paramilitaries, most of whom were members of the UVF, primarily as a reaction to the prospect of a greater role for the Irish Government in the administration of Northern Ireland arising from the Sunningdale agreement. It was also concluded that these loyalist groups were capable of carrying out the bombings without help from any section of the security forces in Northern Ireland, although it is likely that individual members of the UDR and RUC either participated in or were aware of the preparations for the attacks. Mr. Justice Barron further concluded that the Garda investigation failed to make use of the information it obtained and that the State was not equipped to conduct an adequate forensic analysis of the explosions, one consequence of which was that potentially vital clues were lost.

As I stated at the time of publication of the Barron report, it would not be possible for me to account for the course of a Garda investigation some decades ago but it is a matter of considerable regret that the report found inadequacies with the Garda investigation.

Since that time, there have been profound changes in Garda structures, criminal justice legislation, available technology and the level of co-operation between police services. Although there is obviously concern and disappointment about what the Barron report says about the Garda investigation, we should not lose sight of the fact that in the course of the past 30 years the Garda has proved vital in preserving the security of the State and some of its members have been called on to pay the ultimate sacrifice in that regard.

Mr. Justice Barron found no evidence that any branch of the security forces in Northern Ireland knew in advance that the bombings were about to take place. I place on record my appreciation and that of the Government for the work carried out by the late Mr. Justice Liam Hamilton, Mr. Justice Barron and their team. I also thank Mr. Justice Barron for the assistance he gave the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, which greatly appreciated his help.

On 10 December last, Mr. Justice Barron's report into the bombings was referred to the Oireachtas and both Houses asked the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights to consider whether the report addressed all the issues covered in its terms of reference, the lessons to be drawn and any actions to be taken in light of the report, its findings and conclusions and whether, having regard to the report's findings and following consultations with the inquiry, a further public inquiry into any aspect of the report would be required or fruitful.

The referral of Mr. Justice Barron's report to the joint committee provided a very useful context for detailed consideration of his report and for further submissions by those who contributed to the work of the commission or were the subject of comment in the report. I am glad so many submissions were received and many of those who were the subject of the conclusions in the report availed of the opportunity to meet the joint committee and put their points of view. The Taoiseach appeared before the joint committee on 25 February last and I appeared before it on 10 February to respond to questions on points of interest.

Mr. F. McGrath

Many people did not show the joint committee the courtesy of turning up. It is a disgrace that a former Taoiseach did not turn up.

Mr. McDowell

Anybody who heard the testimony of those who lost loved ones or were injured in the bombings, some of whom are still suffering from horrific injuries to this day, could not fail to have been moved by their harrowing stories. Following 17 May 1974 the lives of those affected by the bombings were never the same again. Rarely, if ever, have such distressing accounts been heard in the halls of this Parliament.

I am glad the inquests into the deaths of those who were killed in the bombings have, at last, been held. The coroner apologised to the families for the delay in holding the inquests. This apology was welcome because I have no doubt that the absence of inquests contributed significantly to the sense of abandonment of the families. At the inquest hearings, the families had a further opportunity to remember their lost loved ones and recall the circumstances of their deaths. I hope this experience has helped in the healing process.

The joint committee reported back to the Oireachtas on 31 March 2004 and since then Members of this House have had an opportunity to consider its findings. I will address some of the issues raised in the joint committee's report and the conclusions it reached. The Government has not yet considered the report in advance of the House having an opportunity to express its views on the matter but it will do so in light of the views expressed by Deputies in the debate today and the inquest jury's findings.

The joint committee expressed views on a wide range of issues as requested in its terms of reference. These require careful examination and will be considered by the Government in due course. The joint committee also considered the very difficult questions about whether a public inquiry into any aspect of the report would be required or fruitful.

It broke down the issues of concern to it into internal issues which could be resolved within this jurisdiction, namely, the reason the Garda investigation was wound down, missing documentation in the Garda organisation and the documentation, if any, missing from my Department. The joint committee is of the view that a commission of investigation pursuant to legislation, which has been passed in this House and is currently before Seanad Éireann would be an ideal way to deal with the issues pertaining to this jurisdiction. In particular, the joint committee hopes such a commission would resolve these issues in a speedy and effective manner, while fully respecting fair procedures and natural justice. If the Bill is enacted into law, the commission would have powers of compulsion to send for papers and so forth and would not, therefore, be in the position of a non-statutory, voluntary inquiry.

I am aware that reservations have been expressed by Justice for the Forgotten about the suitability of this type of inquiry for a matter of this nature. Deputies will, I am sure, express their views on this in the House. The alternative being sought is a public tribunal of inquiry. One must consider whether such an inquiry would be significantly better or worse than a commission of inquiry established under the legislation currently before the Houses.

The joint committee also considered external issues relating to the identity of the perpetrators and whether there was collusion. Many of the submissions, and Mr. Justice Barron's statement, to the joint committee allude to the high level of collusion operating in Northern Ireland. There is a significant amount of material in the Barron report which could suggest a link between some of those suspected of having a role in the bombings and the security forces in Northern Ireland. The joint committee considered this issue at length and received both oral and written submissions from representatives of victims and relatives groups, legal representatives and other organisations. Most of these submissions relate to the issue of co-operation by the British authorities with Mr. Justice Barron's independent commission and the joint committee.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland wrote to the joint committee and gave his personal assurance that information was provided in the fullest possible manner, consistent with his responsibilities to protect national security and the lives of individuals. Notwithstanding this reply, however, on the question of whether there should be a further investigation or inquiry on the identity of the perpetrators and the issue of collusion, the joint committee considers that a public tribunal of inquiry in Northern Ireland and-or Britain is required and represents the best opportunity to be successful.

Before any inquiry would proceed, the joint committee has recommended that what is required, in the first instance, is a Weston Park style inquiry of the kind carried out by Judge Peter Cory. The House will recall that following agreement reached between the British and Irish Governments at Weston Park in 2001, Judge Cory, a retired Canadian Supreme Court judge, was appointed to undertake a thorough investigation of allegations of collusion between British and Irish security forces and paramilitaries in six cases. The aim of the process was to determine whether there is sufficient evidence of collusion between state security forces and those responsible for the killings in each case to warrant a public inquiry.

Such a Cory-type investigation, according to the joint committee, should be conducted on the basis that the judge conducting the investigation should be of international stature, the investigation would have the powers to direct witnesses for interview, compel the delivery of documentation and inspect premises — statutory powers not available to Judge Cory, time limits should be agreed for the commencement, duration and conclusion of the investigation, the judge conducting the investigation could recommend further action, including whether a public inquiry in either jurisdiction should be held, and the relevant Government would be obliged to implement any recommendation within a defined time limit. The Government will consider this recommendation carefully, although a Cory-type inquiry would be non-statutory and, thus, would not have powers beyond those available to Mr. Justice Barron.

The question of dealing with the events of the past 30 years in Northern Ireland is difficult. In this jurisdiction, we asked Mr. Justice Barron to examine a number of further cases and he recently sent his report to the Taoiseach on atrocities that were attempted or perpetrated before 1974. These include the 1972 and 1973 Dublin bombings and other bombings and incidents. It is intended that this report, which I have just seen, will also be referred to the Oireachtas and will also be published.

Mr. Justice Barron will report later this year on other events perpetrated after 1974, including the Seamus Ludlow case, the Dundalk bombing of 1975 and the Castleblayney bombing of 1976. The Government's primary concern in carrying out this work has been for the victims of all these outrages and their relatives. The excellent work of the former Tánaiste, John Wilson, in preparing the report of the Victims Commission provided a basis for responding to the needs of those who suffered such loss and who, over the years, were largely forgotten.

The Government has established a Remembrance Fund Commission and will provide €9 million over the next three years to acknowledge the loss that people suffered and to provide for the ongoing medical needs of victims. Applications for receipt of funding have recently been invited by the commission. Through the fund, it is also being arranged to provide a substantial contribution to the Northern Ireland memorial fund.

There are lessons to be learned from all this. The Government will consider the sub-committee's recommendations, take account of the contributions to this debate and action will be taken. I thank all those who co-operated with Mr. Justice Barron in compiling his report and with the joint Oireachtas sub-committee in its deliberations. They have made a valuable contribution to the search for truth. The committee carried out its work diligently and with great care and I pay tribute to the Chairman and members of the sub-committee for the work they did, the sensitive way they conducted proceedings and the careful way in which they avoided broad brush solutions as they examined the realities of what they had to deal with and faced up honestly to the complexities involved.

I pay special tribute to the work of the members of Justice for the Forgotten who have so ably represented those who suffered so much as a result of the atrocities that were perpetrated on them. I know this has been a difficult and lengthy process for them as I have been privy to their dealings with the Government over the past five years. I am glad that, over recent years, my Department has been able to assist the group financially and that this support will continue through the remembrance fund.

Over recent years, considerable progress has been made in securing peace and stability on this island but we still have a considerable way to go. However, the position is infinitely better than in the dark days of the Troubles when the agenda of a great number of people on the island was to destroy human life as a way of making political points. Sadly, a few people still cling to that mad view of the world whereby they can advance the cause to which they adhere by killing other people. However, there are a tiny minority. The ongoing work of Mr. Justice Barron is helping people to understand and come to terms with that past.

Mr. P. McGrath

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I express my sincere sympathy to all the families of the victims of the bombings. These terrible atrocities were carried out 30 years ago but the damage then and since has been incalculable as families continue to live with that terrible day when their loved ones were blown away.

Mr. Justice Barron appeared before the sub-committee on the Barron inquiry, of which I was a member, on 10 December 2003 and stated, "The Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 17 May 1974 remain the most devastating attack on the civilian population of this State to have taken place since the ‘Troubles' began." It was the greatest atrocity in the State's history and nobody has been brought to justice for it.

The sub-committee examined various aspects of the Barron report. On the first day of hearings we received submissions from various people whose loved ones were murdered that day, which are listed in the report. I refer to three people representing different age groups who made presentations. The first is Derek Byrne who was a young man at the time. The sub-committee's final report stated:

Mr. Derek Byrne told the Sub-Committee how at the age of 15 he was caught up in the blast of the Parnell Square bomb. He was pronounced dead on arrival in Jervis Street Hospital and placed in a morgue. It was only when he later woke up that the hospital authorities realised he was alive and brought him to the operating theatre to treat his injuries. He stated: "I am still attending hospital. The stigma of the bombings is the scars I carry. When I was a teenager I was refused entrance into night clubs and discotheques and still to the present day you have a stigma attached to you..."

That young man's presentation to the sub-committee was touching as he outlined his terrible memory of the bombings and the ongoing difficulties it created for him.

The second person is Mr. Tim Grace, a man whose life was shattered at the time. He had recently married and had a baby son. His wife went to town that day. The report states:

Mr. Tim Grace asked us to reflect on the fact that it was by total chance that his wife was killed: "During the day and in the afternoon, I looked after the baby for my wife. She had been suffering from flu during the week. The baby was teething and she was not in the best form so I said to her that she should take the car, go into town and have a look around. She went into town and parked the car in Gardiner Street, just around the corner from Talbot Street. She was obviously killed on the way back at 5.30 p.m. when the bomb went off. The elements of chance are, as I pointed out, colossal."

This case involved a man and woman starting out in life and we can all identify with what he has been through.

The third person was a more elderly man, Mr. Edward Roice, whose daughter was killed. The report states:

Mr. Roice urged the Sub-Committee to address the feelings of neglect which he and other victims of the bombings have suffered. "It has gone too far, as the other speakers have said. The Dublin and Monaghan bombings are like dirty words to some higher ups. The attitude is to ignore it and maybe they will forget about it. But we will never forget."

These are examples of the testimony given at the sub-committee hearings.

I commend Deputy Ardagh, who chaired the sub-committee and did exemplary work as he guided members through the hearings. I pay tribute to the staff of the sub-committee, particularly Mairead McCabe, the clerk to the committee, and the legal advisers who assisted us. Even though we went through a difficult time and we worked remarkably hard, we almost reached unanimity on the report. One or two members had reservations but it was well received across the board.

Members received a letter from the Justice for the Forgotten group yesterday which commended the findings of the sub-committee. I am glad the group endorsed our report. We were asked to examine the Barron report from different points of view and not to re-investigate it. We went through the findings of the Barron report, the adequacy of the Garda investigation, the missing documentation, the role and response of the Government of the day and the composition of the bombs. We also had a huge number of submissions.

On the perpetrators of the terrible crime, which killed 34 people, we refer back to what was said in the report. Mr. Justice Barron stated categorically that the inquiry was satisfied that the persons principally responsible for carrying out the bombing attacks on Dublin and Monaghan were loyalist paramilitaries. This was the view of the security forces on both sides of the Border at the time and most of the information available to the inquiry pointed in that direction.

He went on to inform the sub-committee that the report generally indicated that there was a high level of collusion in Northern Ireland at the time of the bombings. The issue of collusion came before us and Mr. Justice Barron stated clearly that it was his opinion that it was more than likely that there was collusion. We dealt with that issue over a long period and various submissions on the matter were made to us. We can look at what Mr. Justice Barron said, which I quoted, but there is also the testimony of another witness. Mr. Sean Donlon, the former Secretary General of the Department of Foreign Affairs, was assistant secretary on the Northern Ireland desk in 1974 and he was very close to Northern Ireland affairs at the time. His response to the question of whether there was collusion in the Dublin-Monaghan bombings was: "I would certainly, with the passage of time, use the word ‘probability' rather than ‘possibility' when it came to collusion." We must look at his judgement very carefully as he was in the thick of it at the time and was aware of what was happening.

We also received a comprehensive report from the Pat Finucane Centre, which also reported to Mr. Justice Barron. The findings of that report point clearly to a group of people operating in Northern Ireland, which had close links to the security forces and which was more than likely involved in the bombing. The suspicion of collusion is very strong and needs further review.

The committee decided that a number of issues had to be examined. Internally there was the matter of the Garda inquiry, and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has outlined the Bill which, when enacted, we felt would be the best mechanism with which to examine the Garda inquiry and missing documents. Although certain people have reservations about it, we should allow time to show the legislation is effective before condemning it. It is the way forward.

The next issue, which caused some controversy, was whether the Government of the day did what it should have done. Did it handle the issue sensitively and follow through on the reports? Mr. Justice Barron was quite critical of the Government of the day, saying it had not addressed the matter with adequate concern. The report states that one of the complaints made related to the importance Mr. Justice Barron was attaching to the question of whether the Irish Government of the day had failed to show adequate concern and that an opportunity should have been afforded to allow a response on this issue.

Many members of that Government addressed the committee. One of them, who was in the eye of the storm at the time, was the Minister's predecessor, former Deputy Pat Cooney. The sub-committee noted that the atmosphere and political landscape was very different 30 years to what it is today. As Mr. Cooney said, the ambience in which the Barron report was produced was:

. . .light years removed from the fraught and frenetic times of 1974. The burnt out British Embassy was still standing as a stark reminder that democracy could very quickly become anarchy. Atrocities were being committed, mainly by the Provisionals, mainly in the North, on a distressingly regular basis. Some of those atrocities spilled over here. I think Dr. FitzGerald mentioned the murder of our colleague and predecessor, Senator Billy Fox.

Senator Fox was murdered six weeks before the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. Mr. Cooney went on to say:

Armed robberies on post offices, banks and mail vans were commonplace. Demonstrations and agitation were being fomented and agitators bussed in. There were hunger strikes and unrest in the prisons. It was a very fraught time. The contemporary context has always to be kept in mind when considering the task that Judge Barron had to contend with.

That gives us a small flavour of what was happening at the time, when the State was under attack. I recall going to meetings addressed by Mr. Cooney and one had to run the gauntlet of demonstrators outside who were verbally attacking those attending such meetings. It was a very difficult time.

When Mr. Justice Barron came to the committee on 10 December, we asked if he felt that criticism of the Government of the day was a little harsh. He said:

One of the problems we faced was that in doing an independent inquiry we had to stand back from the people we were dealing with. That was a consideration. Looked at from the point of view I believe that the Deputy who put the question is looking at it, maybe it was unfair.

In that response Mr. Justice Barron told the committee that perhaps his condemnation of the Government of the day was, in hindsight, something he would have looked at further.

Why did we not bow to the pressure from various sectors to ask for a public inquiry? I referred earlier to the fact that the best way to deal with the inquiry within our jurisdiction was by way of the new legislation, which is presently in the Seanad. We felt strongly that if we were to make progress with material outside the State and we got expert advice on this matter, we could not do so by way of a public inquiry. When Mr. Justice Barron sought documents from the North he simply was not afforded the opportunity of getting those documents.

It is important that there are further inquiries into this matter. The committee's view was that the only way forward was to have a Weston Park-style agreement between the Irish and British Governments. In that way a Cory-style inquiry could be set up which would have access to various documents and could then decide whether a further inquiry was required. That is possible. The friendship between the Irish and British Governments could lead to a Weston Park-style agreement. It is the only way forward and is what we should seek. I intended to say a few more things, but I do not want to delay the House further.

Mr. Costello

I commend the chair of the all-party Oireachtas sub-committee, Deputy Ardagh, on the excellent manner in which he chaired it and the secretariat which did such fabulous work. It was not an easy report to compile, but it was done expeditiously and efficiently. I also commend the groups and individuals who appeared before the sub-committee. In particular, I pay tribute to Justice for the Forgotten. It is difficult to appreciate how much work has been done by that voluntary organisation over the years and how we could have reached this stage without that work. The group represented by Desmond J. Doherty gave its expertise and information. The Pat Finucane centre in Derry did extraordinary research work in difficult circumstances and British Irish Rights Watch gave us good advice on the matter. We were ably supported by those organisations which had a direct interest and involvement in and had been working for years — some for well over a decade — in this area.

The background to this matter has been well rehashed in the context of the Northern problems and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in 1974 which, combined, were the greatest atrocity in the history of the State. It was preceded by two other bombings in 1972 and 1973, which the Minister mentioned, and further inquiries. I am glad Mr. Justice Barron has reported on those two bombings because there is a link in regard to the perpetrators of, and collusion in, those bombings in 1972, 1973, 1974, the other bombings which took place in 1975 and 1976 and the killing of Seamus Ludlow. It will be interesting when we are able to put the full picture together.

The 1974 bombings were the greatest atrocity in the history of the State. The horror stories of the victims — the survivors — were seared into the consciousness of all members of the sub-committee. Their testimony was very powerful. None of us would have expected the degree of grief, suffering and courage expressed by those who appeared before us. Over the years there was a lack of counselling or support services from State agencies for the victims — the survivors. Not only that, the financial contribution which had been made over the years in terms of any form of compensation was paltry.

I remember the time of the bombings. I was a young teacher in my first year in Loreto College in North Great George's Street. One of my students was injured in the bombing. If the bombing had taken place an hour or so earlier, there could have been a far greater catastrophe with hundreds of students streaming down North Great George's Street to Parnell Street to catch buses home.

Over the years there has been a lack of focus on and public interest in this atrocity. At this point, I do not believe anyone can comprehend why. It was lost in the litany of suffering, deaths and bombings in Northern Ireland. It was put to the back of people's minds and was never dealt with by the State or the body politic until the 1990s with the "Hidden Hand" programme, the formation of Justice for the Forgotten, the anniversary meetings, the anniversary masses in the Pro-Cathedral and other meetings which took place. We also remember the extent of State suspicion and hostility to any form of organisation that remembered the atrocity. The early meetings were always attended by a strong presence from the special branch which often questioned people who attended and tried to warn off the public from becoming involved. It was a sad period in terms of the State's response to this atrocity which affected so many lives dramatically.

Eventually people were listened to. John Wilson, the former Tánaiste, was the first person to be made responsible for conducting an investigation. He recommended the inquiry established under the late Mr. Justice Hamilton and, following his death, Mr. Justice Barron. It resulted in a comprehensive report which was published last year and which gave rise to the Oireachtas sub-committee being established. I do not want to dwell on the findings of the Barron investigation as they have been well rehashed. It was a good report and it went as far as he could go on a voluntary basis and with the powers at his disposal. It laid the path for further progress.

The establishment of the Oireachtas sub-committee enabled it to take a comprehensive look at the findings and submissions made, to bring the various people before it and to come up with recommendations for a way forward from that research. I was a member of that sub-committee and I believe it did a good day's work, although I would be expected to say that. However, the sub-committee put together a coherent, practical package of proposals which showed a step by step way forward to achieving the objective.

The sub-committee started out by saying it believed a public inquiry into the perpetrators of, and the collusion in this atrocity was necessary. It did not shy away from making the hard decision. However, it showed how that could be achieved and how steps could be taken in this jurisdiction and in Northern Ireland-Great Britain to do so. In the first instance, work has to be done to find out why the Garda investigation ended so abruptly. The investigation was all over by the summer of 1974 yet this atrocity had taken place in May 1974. Normally such an investigation remains open in a meaningful way for many years if it has not been concluded. There is a proposal that a commission of investigation be established to look into that matter. The commission of investigations legislation, which I hope will pass through both Houses of the Oireachtas by next week, would be an appropriate mechanism for doing that.

An investigation is also required into why so many crucial and relevant documents appear to be missing from Garda files and from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Those crucial investigations need to be conducted at an early stage by this Government. The next step for the Minister, the Taoiseach and the Government is to set up those commissions of investigation as quickly as possible and I would like to see them established in early autumn.

An issue which we perhaps did not properly address in having this debate and which needs to be dealt with is the recommendation that a resolution should be passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas adopting the recommendations of the sub-committee. I do not know how we can do that because we are having statements today, but perhaps it can be done by way of a motion. That would be a preliminary step before transmitting that resolution to Westminster to ask the British Parliament to do likewise, namely, accept the findings of the Barron committee and the recommendations of the sub-committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights as the way forward. Those recommendations need to be implemented in this jurisdiction and in the United Kingdom.

We proposed that a public inquiry should take place covering Northern Ireland and Great Britain because we felt that was where the real meat of the investigation had to take place. We could not conduct an investigation or public inquiry in this jurisdiction in a meaningful fashion because we could not compel witnesses from Northern Ireland or Great Britain to attend here. We proposed a Weston Park-type introductory investigation, which would have much the same role at the Cory investigation, of proposals for public inquiries into a number of matters, including the killings of Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, Superintendent Buchanan and Superintendent Breen. I understand the Taoiseach is about to establish such a process here as an indication to the British Government that he and his Government colleagues are serious about the cases of people from Northern Ireland who were assassinated, where there is some evidence to indicate that their deaths came on foot of actions taken in this jurisdiction. That is a necessary step.

The powers that we are proposing as regards the Weston Park proposals are in excess of what were granted to Judge Cory who has powers of compellability, can direct witnesses for interview and also has power to seize or require documentation to be produced before him. There is also an obligation on the relevant government to implement any recommendations that are made. The difficulty, however, is that it can only come about by agreement and that will only happen if the Taoiseach is able to persuade the British Prime Minister to establish such a process. We are quite convinced that this would lead to a full-blown public inquiry.

In the event that the British Government does not co-operate and does not establish a Weston Park-type investigation or a subsequent public inquiry, there is a provision in the proposals that the committee and the Government should go to the European Court of Human Rights to seek relief for the failure by the British Government to act on an extraordinary matter that required an inquiry. The totality of that package means that we can proceed in a practical way with a reasonable opportunity of obtaining results. I hope we will be able to achieve that effectively.

The sub-committee came up with other recommendations, apart from those directly related to the findings I have mentioned about proceeding further with the inquiry into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. There was an extraordinary, hands-off role by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Government as regards what should have been the most serious investigation ever to have taken place in this State. It seemed that the Garda Síochána operated without any great involvement by the Executive. The sub-committee recommended that while the Garda Síochána is entitled to independence in its investigations, the Government and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should at all times be informed of a serious investigation. No serious matter that is being investigated should be allowed to disappear off the face of the criminal investigatory map within a short space of time, as if it never existed. In addition, the informal basis on which the Cabinet sub-committee on security seemed to operate at that time certainly needs to be examined carefully.

There is one final recommendation that should be examined and which the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform could address with his colleagues in Europe. Since we have experienced difficulties in opting directly for a full-blown public inquiry in this jurisdiction because of the difficulty in getting witnesses to come forward, there should be some inter-jurisdictional co-operation — a protocol or agreement — to provide mutual recognition in EU member states so that where a civil public inquiry is established in one jurisdiction, it could also be recognised in another. If such a protocol were established, all the difficulties that gave our sub-committee such headaches could be surmounted quite easily. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should advance that proposal with his EU opposite numbers.

I am glad that we are having this debate and I am also glad that the Justice for the Forgotten group seems, by and large, to have accepted and commended the findings of the Oireachtas sub-committee. I hope its recommendations will be implemented in full.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I wish to share time with Deputies Gregory and Sargent.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Glennon)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Saddam Hussein is in the dock in Iraq today and I welcome that such a tyrant has been made answerable for his crimes. However, how many British Prime Ministers, Secretaries of State and senior army and police officers should also be in the dock for their war crimes around the world, particularly here in our own country? Thirty years on, victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings still seek truth and justice. The agents of the British Government who colluded in the bombings and their political masters in Whitehall have yet to be subjected to a inquiry, let alone prosecuted for war crimes. They, too, should be in the dock.

The British Government follows debates in the Dáil closely through its representatives who are almost permanent fixtures in Leinster House. The British Government's refusal to co-operate with the inquiry of Justice Barron, with the hearings of the Oireachtas sub-committee, or with the recently concluded inquests, speaks volumes. Their Secretary of State in the Six Counties, Paul Murphy, recently wrote in The Irish Times that he is interested in listening to victims of the Troubles. Yet, the same Mr. Murphy turned down an invitation from the Oireachtas sub-committee to attend its hearings. The Northern Ireland Office, the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the North’s forensic science department were each invited to send representatives and give evidence at the inquests but refused to do so. This followed their refusal to attend the Oireachtas joint committee’s hearings. Their silence and non co-operation exposes their guilt.

I share the anger and frustration of the survivors and the bereaved of Dublin and Monaghan at the British Government's stonewalling, but I am equally exasperated by the meek acceptance of this by the Government here. We have repeatedly seen the Taoiseach shrug his shoulders and deem as inevitable the silence from the British side. That is not good enough.

Worse still, we have seen this used as an excuse to refuse a public inquiry in this jurisdiction. I must question the determination and drive of this Government in pursuing the British Government. Regrettably, the dedication and commitment necessary is lacking. The inquiry should be held and the British Government's representatives should be summoned to attend it, along with those who, we understand, will have a contribution to make. If they refuse to come, let the empty seats expose their position globally.

The report of the sub-committee under discussion was a disappointment. I may be the first to say so this evening, but it is the case. When the report recommended a Cory-type investigation in the North, it stated that the judge conducting the investigation could recommend further action, including whether a public inquiry in either jurisdiction should be held. Yet, in Mr. Justice Barron's report, the sub-committee had more than enough evidence to call, in its own right, for a public inquiry covering both jurisdictions. However, the majority of the committee failed to do so. Therefore, I acknowledge the minority view of the sub-committee member, Deputy Finian McGrath, who rightly held out for a full public inquiry, for which courageous stance I commend him.

The establishment of the Barron inquiry represented a measure of long-overdue progress but we have now reached another impasse. Until the British agree to co-operate, the recommendation for an inquiry in the North will be a dead letter. Another key recommendation of the sub-committee was a commission of investigation in this State into the inadequate Garda investigation, incidents in Dublin at the time of the bombing which pointed to collusion and the now notorious missing or destroyed Garda files and other documentation in this State.

That investigation should be set up immediately on enactment of the Commissions of Investigation Bill. It should examine the issue of infiltration of the Garda Síochána by British intelligence which, it is widely accepted, took place. Moreover, its extent and how far up the ladder it went are relevant to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Successive Governments, apart from the defensive commentary which will be offered, have sadly failed to ensure that the survivors and families of the victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings secured truth and justice. Some 30 years later it is a binding responsibility on us all to ensure that is achieved.

Mr. Gregory

I affirm my commitment to the campaign of the families, relatives and victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings in their search for the truth about the single worst atrocity in the history of the Northern conflict. We owe it to the families and the memories of those who died to bring closure and finality once and for all to this issue. It is the duty of the Government to take the necessary steps to ensure this happens. Having listened carefully to the Minister's statement and those of the Fine Gael and Labour Party spokespersons, there seems to be a distinct lack of political will to unambiguously support the request of the relatives and victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

The most recent policy statement from the Justice for the Forgotten group, dated 19 June this year, ends with the following appeal: "We urge the Oireachtas to call for and the Government to establish in this State nothing less than a public tribunal of inquiry into those grave matters which require immediate investigation."

Mr. F. McGrath

Hear, hear.

Mr. Gregory

It seems that finality can only be achieved by a public tribunal of inquiry in this State. Nothing else has any hope of bringing closure to this issue. Those involved in the Justice for the Forgotten group are not unreasonable people. They accept in the group's statement that an effective investigation of collusion by British security forces in the 1974 bombings, an investigation conducted in Ireland, will require the participation and full co-operation of the British Government. The debate is no longer about whether a further inquiry is needed, rather it is about the form that inquiry should take. The group's preference is for a voluntary binding agreement between the Irish and British Governments to pursue an effective human rights investigation into the bombings. This, they say, could be held under the aegis of and in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement. This seems to be a very reasonable proposition, so what is the problem?

What is the obstacle to having one effective and efficient public inquiry held in this State with the full support of the Irish and British Governments, which could jointly take steps to ensure that all relevant evidence, documentation and persons would be made available to that inquiry? I call on the Government to initiate such a public inquiry and announce a firm timetable for action, to engage with the families and agree the structure of a properly constituted human rights inquiry. Surely, the Taoiseach can meet the British Prime Minister specifically on this issue and, if necessary, demand Mr. Blair's full co-operation. After all, hardly a day goes by without the British Prime Minister condemning terrorism somewhere in the world. Why, therefore, does the British Government have a difficulty with this issue?

Is it because the single worst act of terrorism in this State may have been perpetrated by agents of the British Government and carried out with the collusion of members of the British security forces? The reluctance of the Irish Government to pursue with the British Government the need for a full public inquiry must also be questioned. Why are the main Opposition parties, namely Fine Gael and the Labour Party, so reluctant to demand this course of action? I am intrigued by the reticence of all the established political parties to pursue the most logical course of action. Is there a reluctance to cause serious embarrassment to the coalition politicians in power in 1974 or to senior Garda figures with very grave responsibilities in the matter, or the Anglo-Irish relationships of today?

I am aware that this issue will not go away because for many years I have seen the commitment and determination of relatives and victims to pursue this until finality is achieved. The recent inquests, part of which I attended, will only serve to strengthen the resolve of the families. I trust the Government will not cop out on this issue but rather will facilitate the Justice for the Forgotten group in its members' search for truth.

Mr. Sargent

The term "fight against terrorism" is one we hear much about from the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, not to mention President George W. Bush. However, such words ring hollow in the ears of relatives and victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The interest in the bombings is recent when one considers the commemorations which have taken place. The first was organised by two elderly citizens and it was some years later that the State felt embarrassed enough to get involved, and even then, it took a long time.

On the 17th anniversary, my colleague Ms Patricia McKenna circulated a letter to all Deputies and Senators, which received very little response, not to mention attendance at the commemoration. I pay tribute to her, as someone who lost out in the European Parliament elections, as a consistent, determined and inspiring champion for justice and peace who remains determined to assist the Justice for the Forgotten group in finding justice and truth. Patricia McKenna attended the recent 30th anniversary commemoration in Monaghan at a time when one could have forgiven a Dublin MEP candidate for forgoing events outside her constituency. Such is the level of her commitment and interest in the issue we are debating.

The Green Party commends Mr. Justice Barron's report and the findings of the Oireachtas committee on the Barron report. The horrific events of 17 May 1974 are still an open wound for many who are looking for closure. Mr. Justice Barron has properly turned the spotlight on those events of 30 years ago and his report, in which he found it "probable and more than likely that there had been collusion between members of the RUC, the UDR and UVF bombers", needs to be followed through. Answers are still needed and they are out there.

The lack of co-operation by British authorities in Mr. Justice Barron's inquiry, which extended to the Oireachtas sub-committee when neither Northern Ireland Secretary, Mr. Paul Murphy, nor his two predecessors would accept invitations to give evidence before the sub-committee, has necessitated Mr. Justice Barron withholding judgment on whether that collusion involved British military intelligence. We need a definitive answer to this.

We all need a definitive answer to the question of the Garda Síochána's unprofessional behaviour at the time. Why were its investigations wound down in 1974 without following up certain leads? Why have official Government files gone missing from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Síochána? Why were there years of Government neglect of all these issues?

That the Dublin City Coroner's inquest adjourned for nearly 30 years is a poignant symbol that not only were the bombings horrific, the suffering and neglect imposed for a generation by successive Governments on the victims and families of those bombings has also been horrific. Much of the information being revealed 30 years later at the inquest was information available in 1974.

The Green Party, Comhaontas Glas, supports the Justice for the Forgotten group's call for nothing less than a public tribunal of inquiry to follow through on the findings of the Barron report and the Oireachtas sub-committee report. There is a need for this inquiry to be held in Ireland, not just because many of the witnesses are elderly but because many of the witnesses, such as the former Taoiseach, Mr. Cosgrave, and the former Minister, Mr. Cooney, need to be close to the inquiry because they have many questions to answer. Justice for the Forgotten does not support the Oireachtas committee's recommendation that an investigations commission, a private process, be established and points out that the Human Rights Commission has expressed deep concerns as to the suitability of such a commission where abuses of fundamental human rights are involved. I could relate, but time does not permit, the press release from February 2004 in which that is stated.

Given that co-operation from the British authorities, which is a necessity, seems not to be forthcoming to say the least, the decision by the Justice for the Forgotten group to take a case to the European Court of Human Rights is fully justified and based on sound argument. First, there is a prima facie case that the UK, through its security forces, colluded in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and, second, the UK, by failing to co-operate with the Barron inquiry, the Oireachtas committee hearings and the inquests, has breached its obligations to co-operate with inquiries into loss of life as set out under Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights. If there is anything the Irish Government can do to facilitate this, it has a bounden duty to do so.

The issue of the remembrance fund, established in early 2003, to provide funding for victims of the Troubles in this jurisdiction is one I have often raised during the Taoiseach's questions. The money from the fund has been a long time coming. I understand from the Justice for the Forgotten group that the limited terms set down to qualify for the fund, siblings being excluded, mean that 17 of the 37 victims' families involved in the bombings and the earlier Dublin bombings will not qualify. This fund was not just about money; it was about acknowledgement. I urge the Government to reconsider its terms.

Mr. B. Smith

I am glad to have the opportunity to make a contribution on the final report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights into the report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 17 May 1974. That we are debating this report in the second half of 2004 is clearly a terrible indictment of our public administration system. It is regrettable and it is unacceptable that these awful tragedies of 30 years ago were not comprehensively investigated at a much earlier time.

I recall the Taoiseach, when speaking at the joint committee, repeatedly using the words "pain, loss and abandonment". Those victims and the families of victims have every reason to believe the State abandoned them for many years and they have had to endure such pain and loss. The former Tánaiste, John Wilson, as victims commissioner, recommended in 1998 that a private inquiry should be undertaken into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Like the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I strongly commend his work as, victims commissioner. Then the Government appointed the former Chief Justice, the late Mr. Justice Hamilton, to examine all the circumstances of the bombings. Subsequently, Mr. Justice Henry Barron took over the completion of this inquiry and its work. I compliment Mr. Justice Barron on a very detailed and thorough report and commend the work of Deputy Ardagh and all the members of the sub-committee.

The Justice for the Forgotten group has been exceptional in its painstaking work and deserves great credit. Mr. Greg O'Neill, solicitor, and other members of its legal team have been very impressive in outlining the circumstances of these awful tragedies, the subsequent neglect in pursuing meaningful inquiries and, above all, the need to get to the truth.

In his evidence to the joint committee I recall that the Taoiseach referred, in particular, to the commitment and the dignified way in which relatives of the victims and victims of the bombings put their case. I fully endorse the Taoiseach's comments. From my dealings with the Justice for the Forgotten group and also with relatives of the victims, I realise the terrible pain and suffering that has been inflicted and the great dignity with which those people have put forward their own case.

Mr. Justice Barron's report is comprehensive and it is obvious to us all that the work was thorough. We were all conscious that maximum, not minimal, co-operation from the British authorities at all levels would be essential to get to the truth. One telling comment from Mr. Justice Barron states:

Correspondence with the Northern Ireland Office undoubtedly produced some useful information, but its value was reduced by the reluctance to make original documents available and the refusal to supply other information on security grounds. While the Inquiry fully understands the position taken by the British Government on these matters, it must be said that the scope of this report is limited as a result.

I believe those comments of Mr. Justice Barron clearly demonstrate that the necessary co-operation was not forthcoming from the British authorities. I wish to refer again to the work of the joint committee. Listening to people who gave evidence to that committee brought home to us repeatedly the terrible pain and suffering inflicted on so many and also the absolute futility of violence.

The essential aim of any inquiry must be to get to the truth. In its report, the joint committee has put forward practical proposals and I hope the Government will agree to those recommendations. The business is unfinished. The least these victims deserve is that the truth is achieved and that justice is administered.

Some time ago I requested the Taoiseach to include the Belturbet bombing of 1972 in the Barron report. I was pleased the Taoiseach acceded to this request. I understand that Mr. Justice Barron's consideration of the Belturbet bombing, along with other terrible events, including the murder of Séamus Ludlow, will be reported this week. Two young people were killed in Belturbet on that fateful night and, unfortunately, nobody has ever been brought to justice for those terrible murders. Today's generation has a chance to put the murder, the mayhem and the killings behind us. One small tribute we could pay to the thousands of victims of the Troubles since 1969 is to ensure that the people of this island never again face that type of lawlessness and complete disregard for human life.

The political leaders in the Six Counties who are not living up to their responsibilities should realise that the overwhelming majority of the people of this island have demonstrated their desire for our country and island to be at peace and to be a place where human life is treated as sacred. That mandate was conferred on all of us with the approval of the Good Friday Agreement in referenda both North and South.

I commend the work of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in their efforts to achieve the truth in regard to the desperate tragedies that are the subject of our deliberations this evening. What is important is not the name of an inquiry, but an inquiry, whether private or public, that gets to the truth. The mechanisms and procedures recommended in the report of the joint committee should be accepted by the Government. As other speakers have said, more answers are needed and the decisions to enable us to get those answers should not be delayed. I hope the Government will move on those recommendations at the earliest possible date.

Mr. Neville

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Barron report and commend the sub-committee on the great work by all its members under the excellent chairmanship of Deputy Ardagh. Those of us who were not members of the sub-committee looked in on its proceedings on a regular basis. The statement by Deputy Paul McGrath on the suffering and difficulties experienced over the years by the families of the victims was heart rending and moving. The exposure of the suffering and difficulties by the sub-committee constituted a great service in helping us to understand the great hurt felt.

While it is one thing to read and debate the hurt felt by the families of the 33 people who died on the fateful night of 17 May 1974, the human aspect of the tragedy is brought to light when one hears the testimony of families and victims who were injured and still carry the scars. The testimony on the terrible events which took place in South Leinster Street, Talbot Street and Parnell Street in Dublin and in North Street in Monaghan exposed the psychological trauma which continues to be suffered by so many. It should be remembered that while today we are dealing with the Barron report, there are many other victims and families who were traumatised over the 30 years of the difficulties experienced in Northern Ireland.

The Barron report came to a number of conclusions. It concluded that the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were carried out by two groups of loyalist paramilitaries, one based in Belfast and the other in the Portadown-Lurgan area. Most, though not all, of those involved were members of the UVF. According to the Barron report, the bombings were primarily a reaction to the Sunningdale agreement while the loyalist groups which carried out the bombings in Dublin were capable of doing so without help from any section of the security forces in Northern Ireland. This, however, was not deemed to rule out involvement by individual RUC, UDR or British army members.

The report states that the Garda investigation failed to make full use of the information it obtained and that certain lines of inquiry which could have been pursued further in this jurisdiction were not followed up. A number of those suspected of the bombings were reliably said to have had relationships with British intelligence or RUC special branch officers.

The Barron inquiry examined allegations that the Garda investigation was wound down as a result of political interference but no evidence was found to support this proposition. It also concluded that there is no evidence that any branch of the security forces knew in advance that the bombings were about to take place. While the inquiry further concluded that there are grounds for suspecting the bombers may have had assistance from members of the security forces, the involvement of individual members in such activity does not of itself mean the bombings were officially or unofficially state sanctioned.

As alluded to by Mr. Justice Barron, the lapse of time has greatly diminished the usefulness of an inquiry such as the one he carried out. In addition, the failure of the Taoiseach to secure the co-operation of the British Government meant the inquiry did not have a substantial amount of vital information available to it. Perhaps the single greatest failing of the Barron inquiry process was the consistent failure to secure British co-operation which is disappointing when one reflects on the special relationship between the Irish and British Governments, the Irish and British people and, in particular, between the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister. The negative impact of the unco-operative British approach has, been mentioned on several occasions by members of the sub-committee who pointed out that it cannot be overstated in the context of the completion of all aspects of the report.

In its report, the sub-committee stated that it had heard nothing in the course of its hearings to detract from Mr. Justice Barron's conclusions that the Garda investigation failed to make full use of the information available to it at the time, that the State was not equipped to conduct forensic analysis and that no proper chain of evidence was maintained. The sub-committee recommended that a commission of investigation should be established under the legislation in this area currently before the Houses to investigate why the Garda investigation was wound down and to examine why the Garda failed to investigate specified leads. The sub-committee went so far as to suggest that in recognition of the trauma, which can be caused to victims by the perception of a poor investigative process, major Garda investigations should be subject to periodic review.

The Barron inquiry encountered difficulty in locating all of the relevant files it believed were in this jurisdiction and the sub-committee considers that the question of missing documentation is one, which must be resolved. Accordingly, the sub-committee has proposed that a commission of investigation should be established to investigate the identity of the files or documentation which is missing, the reason for this circumstance, whether they can be located and whether systems recently put in place can prevent the recurrence of this problem.

On page 52 of its report, the sub-committee advances the idea of an agreement between EU member states to lend recognition to civil public inquiries to ensure they have the power to gather evidence and compel witnesses in other jurisdictions. The sub-committee considers that the possibility of holding a further inquiry into the identity of the perpetrators of the bombing and the issue of collusion requires further and extensive consideration. In advocating this consideration, the sub-committee recognised that many of the witnesses reside outside this jurisdiction. Accessing original documentation in the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland is also considered vital to the success of any further investigation or inquiry into these issues. The sub-committee favours the establishment of a public tribunal of inquiry in Northern Ireland and/or Great Britain, the terms of reference of which should be based on those of the Cory inquiry.

Failing this, the sub-committee believes Ireland should take the United Kingdom to the European Court of Human Rights for its failure to put in place an appropriate investigation. The sub-committee recommended that a resolution of both Houses of the Oireachtas be passed endorsing its report and that Westminster be invited to pass a similar resolution. I would appreciate it if the Minister in his response to the debate would comment on this last recommendation.

I pay special tribute to the Justice for the Forgotten group, which was established after the broadcast of the 1993 television programme, "Hidden Hand". The group has done a service to the people it represents and those whose lives were taken. It has prompted the excellent report which the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights presented through its sub-committee to the House.

Mr. Ardagh

It was a great privilege to chair the all-party Oireachtas sub-committee on which sat Deputies Paul McGrath, Finian McGrath, Costello, Hoctor and Peter Power and Senator Walsh. A finer group of parliamentarians would be very difficult to find in any parliament in the world.

It was also a privilege to be part of the lives of the relatives and victims of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings for eight to ten weeks. There is no doubt that the whole country was moved by what Charlie Bird on RTE described as the raw emotion that came out during the first day of hearings. Deputy Paul McGrath today read some excerpts from those hearings. Everyone in the country was moved by the horror that happened and by the tragedy that continues to this day.

As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said, the Taoiseach was the catalyst for the Barron report and the hearings of the joint Oireachtas committee as, following a meeting on 24 April 1999 with the members of Justice for the Forgotten, he promised action on the issue. This was followed by, John Wilson's Victims Commission and his recommendation that an independent commission be established.

The late former Chief Justice, Mr. Liam Hamilton, initiated that independent commission and he was followed by Mr. Justice Henry Barron. Neither I, nor most Members knew Mr. Justice Barron but he came to the committee to explain items in the report we did not fully understand. I have never met a more incisive or intelligent person. I understand he has just completed his report on the 1972-73 bombings and the Minister said he has seen those reports.

I note from the letter we have just received from Justice for the Forgotten that a Government announcement is imminent on the establishment of a public tribunal of inquiry into the murders of RUC officers Breen and Buchanan. Deputy Ó Caoláin rightly criticised the British Government and officials in the Northern Ireland Office for not attending the hearings of the Oireachtas committee and not meeting Mr. Justice Barron. I hope the leadership of the republican movement will co-operate fully with the public inquiry into the Breen and Buchanan murders.

Justice for the Forgotten was ably represented by, Mr. Cormac Ó Dúlacháin and the group's solicitor, Mr. Greg O'Neill. I pay tribute to Ms Bernie McNally, the chairperson of the group and Ms Margaret Irwin its campaign secretary. Lest anybody thinks Justice for the Forgotten did not think highly of the Oireachtas committee, a recent press release from the group on its response to the recommendations of the joint committee said it "commends the findings of the Oireachtas committee on the Barron Report". Various qualifications are made to this but the essence of the press release — from discussion I understand this to be true — is that Justice for the Forgotten commends the work we did and feels we did a good job within the parameters available.

I wish to mention Judge Peter Cory. When we wanted him to attend the committee as a witness, he had pneumonia so instead of him attending the committee we conducted our meeting by tele-conference. Although a man of mature years, he was an impressive witness. He provided a great insight into how he worked as a result of the Weston Park talks. He explained how he went about his investigation and provided much useful information, which found its way into our report.

I am not here to defend, explain or advocate recommendations of the report. It stands on its merits. I am interested in hearing the views of the Members and seeing what action the Government will take on it. The committee has been of service and has done its job. Responsibility for progress now lies with the Members and Government as they see fit.

I am delighted the Commissions of Investigation Bill will, hopefully, pass through all Stages by the end of this session. Certain recommendations in our report will be better enabled, by the passing of that Act. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been most helpful to the committee and put in place provisions that will help to bring about the recommendations of the report. If it was not for his interest in the issue, the Commissions of Investigation Bill would not be as advanced as it is.

The Garda Síochána Bill, which is expected to come before the Houses in the autumn is an integral part of what we believe is needed as a result of our examination and investigation into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. We wish that legislation success.

In chapter three of our report we recommend a number of actions on which there has not yet been much discussion. I hope the Government sees fit to consider some of them. The Minister has addressed some of them through actions he is taking in the Garda Síochána Bill. However, matters relating to forensic science, retention of documents, support for victims and their families etc. have not yet been addressed. Not only in the investigation into the Dublin-Monaghan bombings do victims need support, but in many other areas. I am aware the Minister thinks along the same lines and hope he will be able to provide the resources to improve matters in this regard.

It was a privilege to be involved in the inquiry process and the production of the report. I wish the House and the Government success in ensuring that relatives and survivors of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings get finality as soon as possible.

Mr. Crawford

I welcome the opportunity to comment on the Barron report and the committee's findings on it. I pay tribute to Deputy Ardagh and his vice-chairman, my colleague Deputy Paul McGrath, on their tremendous work and that of their colleagues on the committee.

Those Monaghan relatives and survivors who attended were impressed by the inquiry and valued the opportunity they were given to put their stories on the record. I sympathise with the families of the victims of those tragedies. The bomb explosion, which occurred at North Road in Monaghan and the three bomb explosions in Dublin on 17 May 1974 resulted in the deaths of 33 people, including one expectant mother. They also resulted in many serious injuries. Some of my best friends were among those injured. The people injured carry those injuries as a burden for their lifetime. There is not only the issue of the victims but also the grief and human hardship suffered by the families and friends of all those who died. While it is my understanding that the victims of these atrocities and their relations received some compensation shortly afterwards, the fact that no one was brought to justice for these desperate atrocities means there is no closure to the case, and that is unacceptable.

From my early days of involvement in farm organisations at county level starting in the mid-1960s and at national and European level from the 1970s, I have worked tirelessly, often behind the scenes, to build up good working relationships between people involved in farming and the food industry on both sides of the Border. The current cross-Border involvement of co-operatives and private companies in the food industry is fruit of that type of co-operation.

Since my election to this House I have been involved in the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body and other groups. We have come a long way since the signing of the Anglo-Irish Agreement and the more recent agreements up to the Good Friday Agreement leading to a much better relationship and understanding between the two countries. We must use this new relationship especially at Taoiseach and Prime Minister level to secure a realistic and workable agreement that could allow a new investigation or inquiry possibly based, as the committee suggests, in Northern Ireland or Great Britain where the relevant people would have to attend and the inquiry would also have the power to compel delivery of documents etc.

It is important to remember that these atrocities took place more than 30 years ago. Many young people or those living away from Dublin or the Border areas may not realise the state of war we were in at that time, with terrorists from both sides of the political and religious divide carrying out all sorts of savagery and claiming that they were attacking legitimate targets. For instance, Mr. Archie Harper, one of the victims of the Monaghan bombing was a good friend and near neighbour of mine. It is only by the grace of God that other members of his family were not in his car. It could have been his daughter, Iris, who spoke at the committee, or his grandson, or both. However, his cousin, the late Senator Billy Fox, a Member of the Oireachtas, died as a result of an IRA bullet on 11 March only two months earlier. This not to resurrect old wounds but to put that whole tragic period of our history into context. I condemned then and still do any use of bombs or arms to deal with issues where democracy and co-operation is the way forward.

I well remember trying to talk to a local politician in 1969 at the start of the last serious round of Troubles in Northern Ireland and the Border region and advising him that with our entry into the EEC, as it was then known, the Border would disappear in time. However, his only answer to me was, "Who would get the thanks for that?" Some people who are now thankfully embracing democracy often forget or do not even want to know the commitment of others to our peaceful process.

I record my welcome and thanks to Monaghan County Council, under Councillor Seán Conlon from Sinn Féin, and its sub-committee, under the chairmanship of my colleague, Councillor Mary Carroll, for the recent memorial service and commemoration of the victims of the Monaghan bombing at which President Mary McAleese unveiled a fitting memorial tower. This means a great deal to the family members and the victims in that they are at least remembered by their local town and people.

People from Omagh and other places where people experienced atrocities attended that service, and that helps in the healing process. The Omagh bomb, as a result of which 29 people were killed, including the mother of unborn twins, is another example of where there is still no closure. While a good deal seems to be known about what happened and who carried out the deed, the people concerned are still not behind bars. I mention this only to instance how difficult it is, even with the advent of much more modern technology, to bring well, organised terrorists to justice. Mobile and other telephone calls can now be traced as a matter of form, yet justice has not been done.

The Barron report came to a number of conclusions including that the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were carried out by loyalist paramilitaries based in Belfast, Portadown or Lurgan or perhaps in all three using the Sunningdale Agreement as an excuse. The Barron report also states that the loyalist group who carried out the bombings in Dublin was capable of doing so without the help of any section of the security forces in Northern Ireland, although the report did not rule out the involvement of individual members of the security forces. The report also concluded that the Garda investigation failed to make full use of the information it obtained. That is regrettable.

One must remember the pressure gardaí and other people were under at that time. I remember that time well. I attended the funeral last Friday of my uncle who was 92 years of age. He was buried in the same plot as his son who died at 36 years of age in 1977. I remember that clearly because he was a very close friend of mine; he was closer to me than either of my two brothers, and I do not apologise for saying that. His brother-in-law could not attend that funeral because of the danger to his life. Those were the times we lived in then. The security forces, North or South, would not dream of allowing him attend that funeral because of the danger to his life simply because he was in a job he took up simply because it was a job, and not for any other reason. We sometimes forget the background to this whole process.

I want to see this issue brought to fruition. I welcome the proposals brought forward by the justice committee in that context and I realise the difficulties contained in those proposals, but we must get agreement. The Barron report was set up in the hope that the Government would seek the co-operation of the British authorities with the Chief Justice's examination, but we failed to get that. Perhaps under the new relationship between Mr. Blair and the Taoiseach we can get some co-operation but unless we get agreement that information and documentation will be made available, it will be the same situation as that which pertains in some of the other inquiries currently sitting. Those inquires were organised and pushed for by certain people, yet when it came to giving information to those inquiries, they failed to produce. We all know that. This inquiry can only be set up, and finality brought to this situation, if we can get agreement that the necessary information will be given. I hope that whatever this country can do in terms of the Garda investigation and so on will be done as quickly as possible. In that way the Northern Ireland or United Kingdom authorities cannot use that as an excuse. I have total sympathy for all those affected by the various atrocities. I remember the time when some of these actions would not be condemned in council chambers. Thank God we have come a long way from that. We must move forward and try to encourage others to move forward with us in a positive way.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I wish to share time with Deputy Connolly.

Acting Chairman

That is agreed.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The format of these statements is totally inadequate. My colleague, Deputy Ó Caoláin, had asked the reason the Government did not present the motion, which was the logical thing to do. The sub-committee of the Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights recommended that the resolution be passed by the Dáil and Seanad and also by the British Houses of Parliament. Rather than having statements on this issue, we should be debating a motion and agreeing on it because the logic is that all sides of the House should be in agreement on a motion on this issue.

One question I would like answered is why such a motion was not presented. Is the Government still considering preparing a comprehensive motion to be passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas and then presented to the British Government for its endorsement in the British Parliament? The Irish Government needs to tell us its intentions on this aspect of the committee's report.

The committee also recommended that the Government consider taking a case against the British authorities to the European Court of Human Rights seeking to compel them to co-operate with the investigation on this aspect of the report. It is sad and disgraceful that the Justice for the Forgotten group is taking such a case rather than the Government. However, I urge the Government to fully support it with all the necessary resources, including financial resources, required to engage in such a court challenge in Europe. It is also disgraceful that the families feel so let down by this Government that they feel it necessary to consider legal action against it over its failure to establish a public inquiry. I hope they take such a case and win so the Government will then be compelled to take the logical step of establishing an inquiry.

In 1974, the then Government and the Garda were fatally compromised in respect of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. During Jack Lynch's time as Taoiseach up to 1973 and afterwards, British agents were very active in this State. They included the Littlejohn brothers, English criminals who were hired by British intelligence to act as agents provocateurs. They also included British spy John Wyman, who infiltrated the Garda special branch with the aid of a senior special branch employee, Patrick Crinnion. While all four were arrested, the full extent of the British operations in this State in that period has never been fully revealed.

When challenged on this issue at the time, Jack Lynch denied having any knowledge of it and later claimed he had forgotten about it. However, there are surviving Ministers from that Government, particularly the then Minister for Justice, Dessie O'Malley, who could answer questions on the period, on the infiltration of the Garda Síochána and on the operations of British agents in this State.

Mr. Crinnion and other Garda agents systematically supplied the British with information on republicans but this process was actually formalised during the term of the Fine Gael-Labour Party coalition between 1973 and 1977. British intelligence became the Garda source of information on loyalists although it was British intelligence that was directing the operations of loyalists, especially operations in the Twenty-Six Counties.

Information flowed from the Garda through official channels, as agreed by the two Governments, and unofficially through British agents in the Garda. Obviously the role of the Garda in protecting this State from British and loyalist attacks was therefore fatally and deeply compromised but it was following the lead of its political masters, the likes of the then Taoiseach, Liam Cosgrave, the Minister for Justice, Paddy Cooney, and the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, Conor Cruise-O'Brien, who in the wake of the massacres in Dublin and Monaghan blamed republicans for provoking loyalists and warned people in the Twenty-Six Counties not to support republicans.

It is important to put on record the political context of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, which lies at the root of the failure by successive Governments to vindicate the rights of the survivors and the bereaved and at least 14 others who died in this State as a result of direct British military operations or collusion with loyalists. Despite this, the truth about collusion will emerge and I commend all relatives and survivors who have campaigned for justice.

Mr. Connolly

The 17 May 1974 is a day that will be remembered by people in both Monaghan and Dublin for all the wrong reasons. It will be remembered particularly by, the relatives and friends of the 34 innocent people who lost their lives on that day. It is a day that will be remembered for being the day of the worst atrocity ever perpetrated on the island of Ireland, not merely in the period of the dark Troubles in Northern Ireland but down the centuries.

Thirty years after that day, the Barron report has been issued. It provides us with the most damning indictment of the inactivity of successive Irish and British Governments in apprehending the perpetrators. In the immediate aftermath of the Dublin and Monaghan atrocities, the contrast between our security measures and those of the United States in the wake of the events of 11 September 2001 could not have been more stark. There were no helicopters to track the bombers, no closures of sea ports or airports and no roadblocks until the perpetrators had well and truly disappeared into their lairs. In addition, the State was not equipped to conduct an adequate forensic analysis of the explosions, leading to the loss of vital clues. This was due to the appalling lack of appreciation of the importance of preserving the crime scenes and of prompt collection and analysis of evidence.

In effect, our intelligence, for what it was worth, let us down and the report strongly suggests that grounds existed for believing that the bombers received assistance from Northern Ireland security force members. The suggestion that the RUC special branch and British army were reluctant to compromise relationships with some of the suspected bombers is deeply disturbing, especially to the relatives and families of the victims.

The "loss" — I question the use of this word — of vital documentation, which is "missing in its entirety" according to the report, from the Department of Justice would provide us with sufficient grounds for an inquiry. A vast amount of information, running to over 60,000 documents, was suppressed by the British authorities, from which they supplied a mere ten pages to the Barron inquiry. What was contained in the other 59,990 documents? Surely this knowledge is of relevance and should be provided.

The Sunningdale agreement, which led to the establishment of the North's first cross-party Administration, or power-sharing Executive, provided the pretext for the bombings. Co-operation was forthcoming on both sides of the Border in the matter of safehouses and general backup and assistance.

According to Mr. Justice Barron, Garda investigations were inadequate and characterised by a distinct lack of zeal in pursuing certain lines of inquiry and co-operating with the RUC. Why was there a lack of purpose in pursuing the matter? Even a single murder would be pursued vigorously for many years, not to mention 34 murders. A report that was compiled on the basis of missing forensic records, missing files and photographs of suspects is utterly incomplete and must be found wanting.

Nothing less than a full cross-jurisdictional judicial public inquiry similar to the Lord Saville inquiry into Derry's Bloody Sunday killings will be sufficient to assuage public concern. Such an inquiry into this most heinous chapter in our history would require the full and unqualified co-operation of both jurisdictions. Our Government has already indicated its opposition to a full judicial inquiry since it feared that it would become as expensive and long-running as the Saville inquiry. I wonder if expense is the only thing our Government is worried about. The same Government happily sanctioned tribunal after tribunal year after year, yet it questions their value for money. We are talking about 34 lives. Should we put a price on lives? I have a feeling we have a Government that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. A nice, quiet commission of inquiry with a "Do not disturb" sign on the door will provide no answers. The Government and all the parties in this House should know that.

The relatives and families of the dead are aggrieved to learn that the Government will shortly announce a public inquiry into the heinous murders of RUC officers Breen and Buchanan. They feel doubly aggrieved that the Government will hold this public inquiry while it continues to resist the most thorough and far-reaching investigation of mass murder on a massive scale. A fully cross-jurisdictional judicial public inquiry into our State's worst-ever atrocity is much needed. I commend the relatives, friends and lobby groups that have brought this particular episode so far and who have not given up after 30 years.

Mr. F. McGrath

I welcome the opportunity to address the Dáil on the Barron report and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. I particularly welcome this opportunity as a member of the sub-committee of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights.

Some of the speeches made today on the Barron report and the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were a distortion of the facts and a misrepresentation of what really happened. I welcome the opportunity to challenge the cosy consensus, which seems to be emerging. We should look at the facts. The victims are unhappy and are demanding a public tribunal of inquiry. They feel totally let down. Let us accept that before we go into the detail of the debate. I suggest that Members read the last paragraph of the victims' statements, which deals with these issues.

I was a member of the sub-committee and I regret that I had to take a minority view of some of its findings. I regret my opposition to the sub-committee's final report on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings because I believe that a full inquiry under the Tribunals Act 1921 represents the best way forward for everyone. I listened for weeks to the families and heard their views. I came to the view that the only way to deal properly with them and to get to the truth of the matter was through a full public inquiry. I felt there was no alternative and that we had a duty to restore confidence in the security forces, both in this State and in the North. I also felt that the public must be satisfied. I listened carefully to the victims and I heard their voices asking the sub-committee to support them. We also looked at the idea of the inquiry's power of investigation. They can be very wide, even abroad.

Mr. Justice Barron made a good report but that was phase one. We considered the serious issues of collusion. We then faced the nightmare that the Government of the day had failed to show the concern expected of it. That is something for which we must accept responsibility. Successive Governments have let the victims down. The Government should put its hands up and accept that and not present a different spin to the House today.

The sub-committee received very credible oral and written submissions from people and groups such as the Pat Finucane Centre, Mr. Seán Donlon, Mr. Colin Wallace, Mr. Nigel Wylde, Justice for the Forgotten, the O'Neill family, the O'Doherty group and Mr. Mike Mansfield. They had a major influence on my decision to support the call for a public inquiry. We also considered the professional issue of Garda obstruction and missing files. We considered the argument about the cost of the inquiry. A time limit could be placed on an inquiry and a cap on legal costs. There has not been a proper investigation and there are too many outstanding issues.

My greatest concern was collusion. The evidence presented to the sub-committee showed that the bombings could have been an act of war. If security forces and death squads from another jurisdiction are working together, which I believe to have been the case, this must end. One cannot have a peace process unless one deals with those situations. Cost should never be a factor when dealing with this matter. It is a separate issue.

This was the greatest mass murder in the State since the Troubles began. Some 34 people, including a pregnant woman, and a still-born child were killed on that day. There are too many outstanding issues and these can only be addressed by a full public tribunal of inquiry. Many of the families are elderly so we should move quickly. Too many people are dragging their feet on this issue.

Almost 30 years have passed since the Dublin and Monaghan bombings occurred and it has taken the bereaved families and survivors more than a decade of active campaigning to reach the point where the Barron report has been published and the joint committee's public hearings completed. The goal of a public tribunal of inquiry has still to be achieved. The Yorkshire Television documentary "Hidden Hand — The Forgotten Massacre" claimed that the Garda investigation into the bombings was wound down after 12 weeks. The Barron report confirms this to be the case and, even more disquieting, finds that the Monaghan investigation was, to all intents and purposes, wound down after seven weeks. The families and survivors know, as a matter of public record, that there was an unexplained collapse in the Garda investigation. Mr. Justice Barron accepts that collusion, in some shape or form, did occur. He expresses the belief that former RUC sergeant, Mr. John Weir, is a credible witness and was in a position to corroborate many of Mr. Weir's claims from other sources.

I believe that the farm of Mr. James Mitchell, the RUC reservist, at Glenanne, County Armagh, was used to organise the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. While I also accept the credibility of Mr. Colin Wallace and Mr. Fred Holroyd, I believe that the judge should have attached more weight to the documents made available to him, such as letters and lists of loyalists compiled by Mr. Colin Wallace and the notebooks of Mr. Fred Holroyd. These are important issues.

I support the families and the victims in demanding that the issue of collusion by the security forces of the United Kingdom in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings be subjected to international scrutiny and adjudication. I support the sections of the sub-committee on the Barron report, which found that there are significant internal issues within the State which must be investigated and that the issue of collusion must now be fully and properly investigated. These are two recommendations, which I support.

I also have concerns that the information made public by the Barron report, the sub-committee hearings and the inquest findings establish a prima facie case that the United Kingdom, through its security forces, colluded in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. This is in direct breach of article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights. It has taken 30 years for the necessary information to emerge to enable a case to be presented based on factual material as distinct from suspicion and speculation. My other concern is that the United Kingdom, by failing to co-operate with the Barron inquiry, the sub-committee hearings and the inquest, has breached its obligations under article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights to co-operate with inquiries into loss of life.

I am not just blaming the British for this. I blame some of our own people also. It is unacceptable that a former Taoiseach would not attend sub-committee hearings and that people with high profiles in political life do not show respect to an Oireachtas sub-committee. The Government of the United Kingdom has failed to act in a manner consistent with its international obligations to assist in the vindication of the right to life. It has shunned the inquiry procedures, which exist to protect and vindicate the right to life. These are crucial and important issues.

The public inquiry should be given two other additional powers. It should have the power to gather and publish further evidence of which it becomes aware relating to collusion in the bombings and a discretion to inquire into any significant matter concerning the bombings which it considers to be warranted in the public interest.

Some of my colleagues who are directly involved have been selective in picking information from the statement of Justice for the Forgotten. In the last paragraph of that statement, Justice for the Forgotten urges the Oireachtas to call for and the Government to establish in this State nothing less than a public tribunal of inquiry into those grave matters, which require immediate investigation. It could not be clearer. I hope the Minister and the Government are listening to this debate. My nightmare is that we will have another debate about legislation, that the matter will go on and on and that the families will have to wait and wait.

We must prioritise the needs of the victims. I welcome information which is given to people and I thank those who made detailed submissions to the sub-committee. It was difficult for all the victims and families and I commend their bravery, integrity and humility. I also commend their patience. If a member of my family had been a victim of the bombings I would not be as patient as many of those people.

When we talk about victims we are talking about all victims of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, but we should also be respectful of other victims. Some of the major political parties sometimes appear to be selective about who they regard as victims. When I talk about victims of the Northern Troubles I am talking about the 3,800 people who were killed over 30 years. I am not selective. Catholic, Protestant and dissenter are included in my broader view.

In the debates in this House we sometimes lose track of ourselves. It is essential that we listen to the victims, their families and their legal team, and support them totally by answering their call for a full public inquiry.

Mr. Durkan

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue. I compliment the Chairman and members of the committee who examined this and the witnesses who came forward. It behoves us all to extend our sympathies many times over to the victims, their families and those who have campaigned to get to the truth that has been so elusive.

I listened with interest to some of my colleagues who became very loquacious about the European Convention on Human Rights and breaches of it. There were many things that happened on this island in the past 30 years that repeatedly breached not only the European Convention on Human Rights but every other precept ever thought, read or written about. They did not start with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, they happened throughout the country, and the sad thing is that all of this happened to pursue a cause of one kind or another. If the cause was good enough, it was deemed fit to do whatever was necessary to bring about the greatest atrocity possible to justify one's existence and to point out in some odd way that this was they way to solve what was wrong.

I was driving around Dublin on the evening of those bombings. I was at Parkgate Street and, like many other people, I was confused. Then the stories began to emerge of the broken bodies, the dead, the mutilated and those who would have to carry the scars for the rest of their lives. People were asking what had happened, who did it and why. Now we know why. It was done to retaliate. That is the saddest part of our history, one retaliation after another, tit for tat killings, bombings and stabbings. There are those who disappeared completely whose bodies have never been found and who to this day await for someone to give them justice, just as the families of the forgotten victims on this occasion are trying to do.

Everyone remembers where they were on that day but I wonder how many people recognise how fragile the security of this State was at the time. We would wake up in the morning wondering what would happen next, when the fuse would be lit that would set the whole country on fire. That was the climate at the time. When Dublin and Monaghan were visited with these events and our people were killed in such an outrageous and vulgar way to demonstrate someone's reaction, did we ask ourselves at the time if we were doing the right thing, if we were pursuing the right tactics? Did we have the right idea in our minds? Does everyone who speaks today remember and recognise the conditions that prevailed at that time? People mention the former Taoiseach and the former Minister for Justice. I remember well that they found it difficult to gain access to meeting halls across the country to exercise their right to free speech because of the activities of certain people.

In case anyone wants to know from where I come on this subject, I was involved, along with other Members of this House, in the campaigns on behalf of the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six and the Maguire family. We pursued those cases because we believed something was wrong and that justice had not been done. We were right. That does not necessarily mean, however, that we should attempt to wash away the awful atrocities that were committed, sometimes in the name of Ireland, sometimes of our flag and sometimes in the name of those who want to take revenge against us. Let it be a salutary lesson for us all that, as we move forward in this time of international atrocities, one atrocity begets another and it is not so easy to divest ourselves of responsibility at the end of the day.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell)

Parts of this debate were excellent and other parts were not. The parts that were not excellent were those where people have clouded their minds and obtruded on to our consciousness some selective aspect of history about which they want to make points, while washing their hands of their responsibilities for other things which people who were very close to them did which were on a scale equivalent to or worse than some of the atrocities we have discussed this evening.

I believe the Birmingham Six were innocent. I also want to say that people were blown to pieces in Birmingham and I have never heard anyone come forward and say they want truth and accountability about who blew up those innocent people that evening in that pub. Let us remember that there are two sides to many stories and sanctimonious humbuggery in this House, such as that I have heard attacking people like Jack Lynch and Des O'Malley, saying that they were anti-republican when they stood by and defended this Republic against vicious thugs who remain unconvinced that killing people in the name of Irish unity is wrong.

Mr. F. McGrath

What does this have to do with the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

Mr. McDowell

When I hear that my stomach heaves, as it does when I see some people come into this House who were not even born when some of these events took place and lecture us about their theory of history. I want to hear an explanation and an apology regarding the child who was blown up on Lord Mountbatten's boat, or to his family, but I hear instead of memorials erected in County Leitrim. I hear someone say it was right to look through binoculars and blow that boat to pieces when there was a child on it. Whatever the differences with Lord Mountbatten, his family and what they stood for in history, there was child on that boat and he was blown to pieces by people who were later commemorated and honoured by the so called republican movement in Ireland. An explanation and an apology is due.

I heard some of the remarks made here this evening about honourable people who stood by democracy in this State when people were trying to blow democrats to pieces. I agree with Deputy Finian McGrath that we cannot be selective about people and about victims but there must be many, many people who, if they were unfortunate enough to hear Deputy Ó Snodaigh's contribution to this debate, would have their wounds torn open by the low, callous disregard of history and the wholly undemocratic attacks on decent people who stood for democracy in this country.

I will not go any further except to say that my mind went back to a former Member of this Oireachtas, Gordon Wilson, whose daughter was blown to pieces in another atrocity that was carried out about which I do not hear people calling for inquiries or tribunals to decide if that was right or wrong. He did not just become a victim, he extended the hand of friendship from Enniskillen to the people of this State. Against all the grain of what might be expected of someone in his position, he came down to participate in the democratic life of this State. He spoke to the people on the political front of the organisation that had killed his daughter and he tried to establish from them the prospects for peace in this country. His virtues and his memory are a far more attractive sight than Deputy Ó Snodaigh trying to destroy the reputations of people like Lynch and O'Malley and others who stood up for the rule of law in this country when it was very difficult to do so.

While I agree with one remark made by Deputy Finian McGrath, I have to disagree with another remark when he used the phrase "Garda obstruction" in the context of the recent inquiry. There was no Garda obstruction; the Garda Síochána co-operated completely with the inquiry. If there are documents missing, it is not due to any deliberate act of the Garda Síochána or any will on the part of the Garda Síochána to obstruct the proceedings of this House.

I have listened carefully to this debate and such of it as merits being remembered and acted upon I will bring to the attention of the Taoiseach tomorrow morning. I will be meeting him in the context of Northern Ireland affairs. It was proper that this House should consider the report of the sub-committee and that the Government should have an opportunity of hearing what its Members had to say about it before taking any further action on foot of it.

I have noted and have considerable sympathy with the recommendations of the sub-committee. I know the Taoiseach, if he could have been here today, would say what I am saying, namely, that the Government will now carefully examine how to implement the roadmap laid out by that sub-committee which behaved responsibly and decently in this matter.

I will conclude by re-echoing a point made by Deputy Ardagh. As part of the Weston Park agreement, the Government will shortly establish yet another public tribunal of inquiry. This inquiry is into the death of two RUC officers who came, unarmed, to Dundalk Garda station to try to improve the security situation on this island. As they travelled north, they were encountered by, an active service unit of the IRA. Their car was hit by, a hail of automatic gunfire. One of them came out of the car, unarmed, waving a white handkerchief. His assailants rushed up, machine-gunned him to the ground and then shot him in the head on the road.

One of the points arising from that incident is whether there was collusion by any member of the Garda Síochána with that ambush. One group of people know intimately whether there was collusion with that ambush and they were those who carried out the ambush. When that tribunal of inquiry is established, I look forward to the full, unambiguous, truthful and total co-operative involvement of the people who carried out that murder on that day because they are the people who can tell us whether or not they had collusive information from the Garda Síochána or whether that atrocity——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Minister has now spoken for five minutes and has not once mentioned the inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan atrocities——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. Allow the Minister without interruption. The Minister should conclude.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

He is blinded by his anti-republican bile. Will the Minister address the issue of the inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Ó Caoláin is out of order.

Mr. McDowell

——or whether that atrocity——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Will the Minister address the issue?

Mr. McDowell

——was carried out on foot of other information which became available to the murderers from some other source. One group of people will be able to enlighten us on that.

As to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, I have listened to this debate-——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

So the Minister will address it.

Mr. McDowell

——very carefully. As I indicated to the House at the beginning, I will bring to the Taoiseach tomorrow all the portions of today's proceedings and all the views that have been expressed. The Deputy may rest assured that nothing that was said today will be forgotten.