Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Dec 2004

Vol. 594 No. 3

Adjournment Debate.

Industrial Disputes.

Mr. McHugh

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this important issue. Tomorrow we are faced with a nationwide postal strike which will bring the whole postal service to a halt and will affect all sectors of society. Tomorrow's action is not an isolated occurrence but follows a recent weekend action and previous industrial disputes, all of which indicate an unhealthy situation at An Post and that it is vital that determined action is taken now to ensure a damaging dispute is avoided. It appears there is a total breakdown of trust between management and unions at An Post. The Minister and his colleague in the Department have a responsibility in this regard. A hands-on approach is needed to ensure normal relations are restored and that normal services are provided.

There are many conflicting views emanating about the financial position of An Post. If negotiations or plans for the future are to have any chance of success they must be based on trust and carried out in an environment where full information is made available on the state of An Post. Obviously the financial state of the company is central to negotiations. It is disturbing, therefore, that the forecast made three months before his departure by the former chief executive officer, Mr. John Hynes — that An Post would have a profit of €1 million in 2003 — was rubbished three months later by the new CEO, Mr. Donal Curtin, who made a new forecast of a loss of approximately €46 million. The CEOs contradictory forecasts, which did nothing to create confidence, were so disparate that they warrant a full public inquiry to establish the truth about An Post's finances. I ask the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to instigate such an inquiry.

I am also concerned about the proposed closure of SDS. All actions being taken to facilitate the closure of SDS should be suspended, pending an independent investigation of the parcel wing of An Post to establish the exact state of its finances. The figures provided by the management of SDS are contradicted by the projections of financial consultants who have been engaged by the Communications Workers Union of Ireland. The union's consultants have forecast that SDS will break even this year, or even make a small profit.

I would like to speak about some of the restructuring proposals made by the management of An Post. As a Deputy who represents a mainly rural constituency, I am alarmed by the proposal to privatise rural deliveries. I oppose the proposal because I foresee that the delivery service provided after privatisation has taken place will be substandard when compared to the service provided at present. People in rural areas are entitled to the same level of service as people in urban areas. The Minister has a role in this regard. Under its universal service obligation, An Post must deliver post to all areas regardless of the cost. A State subvention should be paid to An Post to help it to meet its universal service obligation function. Such a subvention would ensure that An Post's postmen and postwomen can continue to provide rural deliveries in the professional manner we have enjoyed over the years.

The proposed restructuring of An Post will lead to the rationalisation of many delivery offices. The subsequent closure of some post offices and relocation of other post offices to adjacent towns and villages would eventually cause the closure of the entire rural post office network. As a result, local mail would not be sorted in, or delivered from, local post offices. The number of mailbox collection points is to be restricted.

Recent events at An Post are frightening. Trust between management and unions has broken down and there is a lack of clarity about the finances of SDS and the larger An Post group. I question the rationale underlying many of the proposals made by An Post's management, which is refusing to meet the terms of Sustaining Progress. Its denial of cost of living increases constitutes a reduction in wages, in effect. The CEO of An Post has been accused of dismantling partnership, clashing with the company's unions and replacing negotiation and consensus with confrontation. It is time for the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to intervene to bring sanity to this case before it is too late.

Mr. F. McGrath

Hear, hear.

Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Gallagher)

I thank Deputy McHugh for raising this important issue. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, who cannot be in the House this evening.

I wish to be helpful by outlining the state of the postal sector at this time. The sector has changed significantly in recent years, as the European postal market has been liberalised and postal operators have moved from national to international markets. An Post faces challenges such as increased competition, which arises from the liberalisation of the market, as well as falling mail volumes and competition from electronic substitution. As it operates in a more competitive market, An Post will need to offer high-quality postal products and services to consumers who, increasingly, will be able to choose from a range of postal providers. We can expect such a postal market in the future. As the full liberalisation of the sector by 2009 is a real possibility, An Post must start to prepare to ensure that it can continue to be a strong player in the Irish postal market.

The state of An Post's finances is clear and unambiguous. The company's audited accounts show losses of €43 million in 2003, following losses of €24 million between 2001 and 2002. The only conclusion that can be drawn from such losses is that there is an immediate need for the company's management and trade unions to agree and implement a recovery strategy if the company is to return to financial stability and to continue to provide customer focused services and sustainable employment for its staff.

The recovery strategy approved by the board of An Post in October 2003 sets out the basis on which the company can make progress, in partnership with the trade unions. The management of An Post has been involved for several months in a process of negotiation with the company's unions, including the Communications Workers Union of Ireland which is the main union in the company, under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission in an attempt to make progress with the required restructuring. Restructuring proposals, which have been brokered by the commission, have been put to An Post's employees. The result of the ballot is expected this week. Both parties have agreed that unresolved issues relating to the proposed closure of SDS will be dealt with under talks chaired by Mr. Peter Cassells. That process is continuing. An Post and the union agreed arrangements for Christmas delivery in a deal brokered by the commission. Specific local difficulties with the agreed arrangements that arose in Galway were resolved today in the commission.

I wish to speak about the general industrial relations unrest. The Communication Workers Union of Ireland has obtained a mandate for strike action from its membership. The first manifestation of the action is a one-day strike scheduled for tomorrow, 8 December 2004. An Post anticipates that there will be no postal deliveries tomorrow and that the company's post offices will be closed. The extensive sub-post office network will remain open. Arrangements have been put in place to ensure there is minimum disruption to social welfare recipients during tomorrow's stoppage.

It is clear that An Post's deep-seated problems will not be resolved by strike action. The only way forward is for both sides to communicate and to use the State's industrial relations machinery to tackle the outstanding issues. The critically important objective of restructuring the company remains an imperative. All parties have agreed that change is necessary if the company is to be financially viable and to meet the competitive challenges that are expected to intensify in the months and years to come. Rather than engaging in activity that might distract the board, the management, the unions and the shareholder from the key objective of turning the company around, there should be a focus on implementing the necessary changes through the restructuring process.

I urge the members of the union, along with management officials, to use the established industrial relations procedures to resolve the remaining areas of disagreement. Negotiations between the parties provide a far superior basis than strike action for solving the company's problems. An Post's customers and the community as a whole are entitled to a postal service, especially at Christmas. I sincerely hope all parties involved will ensure that no further disruption of postal deliveries takes place.

Prisoner Releases.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

I want to raise with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the major public concern about reports of the possible conclusion of an agreement that might involve the imminent release of the killers of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe. Others are seeking special concessionary arrangements in connection with the killing. I hope the discussions on Northern Ireland will reach a successful conclusion tomorrow. However, I must draw the attention of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the great public concern and anger over the prospect that common killers of a Garda officer could possibly avail of a peace settlement to obtain early release. That prospect is anathema to most decent people in this country. It is true that the dignity of Mrs. Ann McCabe has had a huge impact on people, as had the restrained, but very clear, response of the members of the Garda Representative Association and AGSI. However, the Government should be aware that this issue has struck a chord among the public, including me, to an extent that I have not witnessed for some time.

There is an absolute need for complete honesty and transparency on the part of the members of the Government, particularly the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We are not just talking about extra medical cards or promises in that regard but about matters of far greater importance that go to the root of the sovereign existence of an independent republic. To put it very simply, most people feel it repugnant that common criminals who happen to have had some association with the IRA and Sinn Féin, and who may still have for all I know, will be freed in spite of killing a member of the Garda Síochána. It is repugnant that witnesses who were to attend the trial of the killers were intimidated and that the killers could plead a reduced charge. It is particularly repugnant that they may be able to avail of early release.

The members of the Government, particularly the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, have a duty to the public and to the members of the Garda Síochána and Mrs. Ann McCabe in particular, to make a complete statement on all the issues associated with the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe and their possible early release. The Minister must make it clear that the early release of the killers never came within the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. That was stated by the Taoiseach and others before and after the conclusion of the Agreement. It was stated within and without the Dáil, both verbally and in writing, including in a letter sent on behalf of the Government to Mrs. McCabe. The position was also made absolutely clear by the High Court and the Supreme Court, where it was stated that the Government's power to release is "a quintessentially executive function" and that the decision "that the applicants would not be entitled to consideration for release under the Good Friday Agreement was a policy choice which was entirely within the discretion of the executive to make".

One must ask why members of Sinn Féin are still claiming, despite the Supreme Court decision, that release of the killers comes within the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. Does the Minister agree with me and is he willing to state categorically that these killers do not qualify for early release under the Good Friday Agreement? One must also ask why the freedom of these killers is such an issue for Sinn Féin. According to the Government, it was not an issue that prevented Sinn Féin signing up to the Good Friday Agreement. Why is it an issue now? Was the question of early release in the pipeline at all times?

I was particularly struck by comments by Stephen Collins in The Sunday Tribune of 5 December. He referred to the possibility that “Sinn Féin is attempting to force the Irish state to accept the view that the killing of a garda was in some sense a legitimate political act”. If that is what Sinn Féin is about, we are in very dangerous territory. Stephen Collins referred to the release of Jerry McCabe’s killers as “part of a political deal [that] would amount to a retrospective justification of their action”. Furthermore, he stated: “It would be a betrayal of a servant of the state who died in our defence and would amount to nothing less than the legitimisation of evil.”

Is it of significance that in April 1998 Martin Ferris, then a released IRA gun-runner and now a Sinn Féin Deputy, made it clear on the record to Brian Carroll, the current deputy editor of The Examiner, that Sinn Féin wanted the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe released and that there would be no agreement on the North until that happened. That is another issue that should be clarified.

Why is the Government now apparently prepared to agree to the killers' release. Mrs. McCabe, members of the Garda and the public are entitled to know the exact arrangements that will apply if the Government agrees to early release. Will there be a question of time? Is it possible that the prisoners could be released for Christmas? If not, when? Will the Minister apply certain tests before release? If so, what will those tests be? There is a need for total clarity in this regard.

What is the position on the two men wanted in connection with the killing who have not been located and who are believed to be abroad? Fine Gael does not believe that there is a case for the early release of Garda McCabe's killers. No such case has been made to satisfy any reasonable person. If the Minister is of a different view, it is up to him to fully explain his position. He should do so now and should not use language such as "making the happiest journey of my life". In the circumstances, such an approach shows a complete lack of sensitivity to the Garda and the public, and to Mrs. McCabe in particular.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell)

Last May, when this matter was discussed in detail in the Seanad, I laid out the position of the Government. It was fully debated in the House and a resolution approving that position was adopted therein. Nothing has changed since then and the Taoiseach said in a reply to Deputy Kenny on budget day that we stated the position that obtained last May. I have therefore arranged, for the information of the House, to have the comprehensive statement I made on this issue on 19 May 2004 made available to all Deputies.

I have correctly stated that the position has not changed. The Taoiseach and I said that only in the context of acts of completion being achieved that would lead to nothing less than the definitive end of the Northern question, including, among other things, complete decommissioning of all PIRA arms, the end of paramilitarism and the ending of IRA criminality, could the question of the prisoners come into prospect, and that remains the position.

The actions of the offenders in Adare in June 1996 were cold, callous and cowardly. Detective Garda Jerry McCabe was shot twice and Detective Garda Ben O'Sullivan was hit by no less than nine bullets. Let me be absolutely clear that the Government would prefer to see the prisoners serve their full sentences. The Government has never chosen to deal with these issues as a matter of choice in the current political talks. It was an issue raised by Sinn Féin. The Government has consistently maintained that the prisoners do not qualify for release under the Good Friday Agreement, and that remains our position. I have checked that with officials in my Department, and at the talks in Castle buildings it was made abundantly clear that the prisoners would not avail of the provisions set out in the Agreement.

The Government has contested the contrary view in the courts, including the Supreme Court, and has won in the latter court, as Deputy Jim O'Keeffe acknowledged. If the prisoners had qualified under the terms of the Agreement, they would not still be in jail. The basis of the Supreme Court decision has been the subject of gross and deliberately dishonest misrepresentation by senior Sinn Féin figures in recent days.

It is now over six years since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. It could be argued by some that some of the language contained in the Agreement was ambiguous and that varying interpretations allowed all parties to deflect from their ultimate responsibilities to implement that Agreement. When the Agreement was clearly perceived as being in danger of atrophying, the two Governments tabled the concept of "acts of completion" to achieve a lasting and comprehensive settlement. The idea behind this concept was not to abandon the Good Friday Agreement but to bring about certainty regarding what each party understood as being required to achieve a final settlement and return to devolved Government in Northern Ireland. It quickly became clear that although Sinn Féin and the IRA were in a position to choose to move on decommissioning and end paramilitary activity, they refused to do so while some of their members remained behind bars. They stated that to do so was an impossibility.

The Governments' requirements for acts of completion by the Provisional IRA are as follows: independently verified decommissioning of all weapons, a complete and total end to paramilitarism and unambiguous ends to all forms of IRA criminality. Total decommissioning of weapons would have to be verified by the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning and the ending of all paramilitary activity and engagement in criminal activity would have to be verified by the Independent Monitoring Commission. The Government formed the view that if all these pieces fell into place it would consider the release of these four men. Their release would not be considered under the Good Friday Agreement but under the Offences Against the State Act and subject to conditions and in the context only of a comprehensive and final settlement and bedding down of political stability in Northern Ireland.

If it came to pass that the Government was obliged by circumstances to face up to that possibility in the context of the acts of completion I have mentioned, none of this would have been on foot of the Good Friday Agreement and it would not be an unconditional release. If it did come to pass that the prisoners were released it would be painful and distressing for Mrs. Anne McCabe and her family, and for Ben O'Sullivan and his family. I can only hope that there will be some consolation in the fact that from then on other gardaí would face fewer weapons and less threat of paramilitarism.

If the release of the prisoners ever does come into prospect I will have the obligation to speak first to Mrs. McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan and the Garda representative bodies as I have solemnly promised to do. I do not intend to provide further detail on the matter of those releases or the conditions to be attached to them before speaking to those people, if those circumstances arise. I met the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors and the Taoiseach and I met the Garda Representative Association today to brief both organisations on the position. The purpose of those meetings was not to fulfil my promise to consult with them on the release of prisoners. The occasion for that has not arisen.

I am also mindful of the concerns of the people on the possible release of the four men imprisoned. This is not an isolated arbitrary Government decision in circumstances where other reasonable alternatives were open to us. The Government signalled that if, in order to stand up the Good Friday Agreement and to achieve acts of completion it was possible to transform the political, social and economic prospect, and the only thing that stood between us and achieving that was the early release of these four prisoners we would be willing to consider that option. This is as difficult a decision as any Government has had to face. There is no self-interest or votes in it for the Government but sometimes one has to rise above the rank of politician and aspire to be a statesman. One must look forward to the possible position in five or ten years and back at the decisions made on a particular occasion and ask did one put the interests of the people first. The record will show that the Government has always striven to do that and that others have let down the process.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

The Minister need not overdo it.

Mr. McDowell

Others have brought about a situation whereby unfortunately these things seemed less likely than they did in the past.

Schools Refurbishment.

Mr. Finneran

I ask the Minister for Education and Science to give an update on Aughrim national school roll No. 14684M for the refurbishment and provision of extra accommodation. I have had representations from the board of management of the school, the chairman of the board, Fr. Eddie Moore, the principal, Anna Fehilly, teachers and a parents' representative on the inadequate and unacceptable level of accommodation in the school. They seek a limited sum, in the context of any budget ever made available for refurbishment in the primary school sector, for a simple and very necessary extension and refurbishment.

All that is needed is an extra classroom and a multi-purpose room, an existing classroom to be renovated to become a multi-purpose room, a staff room and special tuition room and some administration space, and for the school to be generally upgraded. That is a small request to the Government. The school was built in 1900 and there has been no major renovation to the building in that time. The only work on it has been limited maintenance. These people are entitled to be included in the 2005 primary school building programme. They have been in constant consultation with the building section in the Department of Education and Science in Tullamore since October 1999. Letters, documents, drawings, specifications and costings have been coming and going between the school management, its design team and the Department since then. They are at a stage when the school needs positive attention and direction from the Minister for Education and Science.

It is a three-teacher school with a visiting teacher to give learning support. The learning support teacher and the third teacher are in portakabins. The foul sewer system needs to be completely replaced. The windows are in very poor condition and are neither suitable nor safe to keep in the heat or to offer protection for the children and the teachers. The roof is in a particularly bad state. The floorboards are sagging, there is rising damp and the toilets have deteriorated over the years. The Irish National Teachers Organisation has condemned it. Regular maintenance will not solve these problems. It is a credit to the school, the principal and the board of management that they have maintained this 100 year old building without any major refurbishment. All they have done is keep it ticking over.

Action is needed in 2005, to provide the limited resources required to bring this school up to the necessary standard. I have discussed this with these very reasonable people, the teachers, the local priest who is the chairman of the board, and the parents' representative. They are most pleasant people with whom to deal. I compliment their sense of loyalty to the school and community. They have put their faith in me to bring their case to the Dáil. I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Gallagher, who will bring my message to the Minister for Education and Science. This is a genuine call from a community to have its school extended and upgraded.

Mr. Gallagher

I apologise to the House and in particular to Deputy Finneran for the absence of the Minister for Education and Science who is unavoidably absent. On behalf of the Minister I will outline the proposals of the Department of Education and Science for the refurbishment and provision of extra accommodation at Aughrim national school in Deputy Finneran's county. Aughrim national school has a staffing level of a principal and two mainstream class teachers together with one shared learning support teacher. The enrolment on 30 September 2004 was 47 pupils.

The Department received an application for refurbishment and provision of extra accommodation from the board of management. I am pleased to inform Deputy Finneran and the House that a full design team has been appointed, architectural design is progressing and the project has been assigned a band 3 rating. I am aware that the school authorities have also notified the Department that they wish to be considered for participation in the devolved scheme for primary schools and that this application is being examined by the Department's officials.

I have taken note of the case made by Deputy Finneran, and it is a credit to the staff, board of management, children and parents. Very little refurbishment work other than maintenance has been carried out to a school established in 1900. I note what the Deputy said about the structural state of the school, the roof, the dampness and the floorboards. I assure Deputy Finneran that, at the first available opportunity, I will bring his views directly to the attention of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin.

The introduction of a multi-annual funding process for schools building projects requires a revised approach to how projects are scheduled through the design process and on to tender and construction. To maintain a smooth flow of projects and ensure that the optimum number of projects is ready to go to tender and construction at any given time, the Department of Education and Science will progress them on a priority basis. The Department will provide further details of those projects and notify the schools concerned early in 2005.

In this way the Department aims to create a sustained momentum in the schools building programme to match the Government's multi-annual funding commitment. I thank the Deputy for making a strong case on behalf of the board of management, teachers, children and parents of Aughrim school. He may rest assured that his views will be expressed to the Minister, possibly tomorrow.

School Accommodation.

Mr. O’Shea

Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle as ucht seans a thabhairt dom an cheist thábhachtach seo a chur os comhair na Dála agus leis an Aire Stáit as ucht teacht chun freagra a thabhairt dom.

St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner, Waterford, has 496 pupils. Applications on the waiting list at the school read as follows. For 2005, 112; 2006, 131; 2007, 110; 2008, 106; and 2009, 24. That makes a total of 483 pupils seeking a place in the school between 2005 and 2009 as matters stand. Undoubtedly, those figures will increase in the interim. For the 112 applications for 2005, there are 29 places. Planning permission was granted on 29 January 2004 by Waterford City Council for the proposed extension to St. Mary's national school. The proposed extension consists of eight classrooms, two autism classes and a sports hall. At present, St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner, is a 22-teacher school.

The Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, knows what moneys will be available to her for the 2005 schools building programme. I doubt if there is any other school in the country that requires extra accommodation as urgently as St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner. It is unacceptable that the parents and teachers at Ballygunner national school have not been given an undertaking that places will be available for 83 surplus pupils. The cost of the proposed extension is approximately €2 million.

The option for parents whose children would be denied places in St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner, next September is to seek places in other primary schools in Waterford. That would involve parents of children with older siblings already attending the school adding to the already overloaded road system in the Dunmore Road and general Ballygunner area. That is nothing short of a crisis, which would, apart from educational factors, seriously reduce the quality of life of parents and children in the general Ballygunner area. In the same general area, many houses are to be constructed.

Each passing year without the extension sees the growing chaos in social and educational terms. The situation has reached absolutely unacceptable proportions, and it is unthinkable that the Minister has not responded urgently and positively by allocating the €2 million needed to allow the construction to begin. Ballygunner must have its extension by next September. Parents must know that their deep concerns regarding their children's primary education are over. Not only will the teachers look to a future where the full primary education needs of their area are met, but all the problems caused by additional traffic going to and from the general Ballygunner area at peak times will be prevented. We should not lose sight of the fact that provision will also be made for two classes for autistic children. This is most welcome and necessary. Ballygunner also has a great sporting tradition, and the provision of a school sports hall in St. Mary's national school can further enhance that proud tradition.

I have seldom come across a situation requiring Government funding more deserving than the provision of the proposed extension to St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner. It is imperative that the Minister give an early positive decision in this case. As a teacher, I am sure she will see the overwhelming justice of the case I have outlined.

Mr. Gallagher

Tááthas orm an deis seo a fháil freagra a thabhairt don Teachta O'Shea maidir leis an cheist thábhachtach seo a bhaineann le Scoil Náisiúnta Naomh Mhuire i mBaile Mhic Gonair ina dháilcheantar. I thank Deputy O'Shea for the opportunity, on behalf of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, to outline the Department's proposals regarding the proposed refurbishment and extension project at St. Mary's national school, Ballygunner.

As outlined by Deputy O'Shea, St. Mary's national school has a staffing level of a principal and 17 mainstream class teachers, a learning support, resource and special class teacher. The enrolment at 30 September 2004 was 481 pupils. As the Deputy pointed out, the Department received an application for additional accommodation from the board of management of the school. I am pleased to inform the House that a full design team has been appointed, architectural design is progressing and the project has been assigned a band 1 rating. I am also conscious that the local authority approved planning permission for the project in January of this year.

The Department's technical staff are currently examining the response received from the school's design team to queries raised on its stage three documentation, which includes the detailed plans and costs. The school authorities will be kept fully advised of developments.

The introduction of a multi-annual funding process for school building projects requires a revised approach to how projects are scheduled through the design process and on to tender and eventually construction. To maintain a smooth flow of projects and ensure that the optimum number of projects is ready to go to tender and construction at any given time, the Department of Education and Science will progress those projects on a priority basis. The Department will be providing further details of those projects and notifying the schools concerned early in 2005. In this way the Department aims to create a sustained momentum in respect of the schools building programme to match the Government's multi-annual funding commitment.

I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. He has made a strong case for Ballygunner national school. I will bring the views and concern he expressed to the attention of the Minister as early as tomorrow.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 8 December 2004.