Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 22 Feb 2005

Vol. 598 No. 2

Other Questions.

Volunteer Training.

Liz McManus

Question:

6 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has received the recent report commissioned by the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs on the role of voluntary workers here; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that despite volunteers saving the State up to €485 million per year, volunteering is on the decline with organisations finding it more difficult to recruit and retain workers; if he plans to take action in view of this report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5816/05]

Liz McManus

Question:

44 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in view of the recent Oireachtas Joint Committee report on volunteering, he has had discussions with the Department Finance on the need to increase funds for volunteering in line with the recommendations in this report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5806/05]

Mr. N. Ahern

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 44 together.

I welcome the launch of the recent report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Arts, Sports, Tourism, Community and Gaeltacht Affairs on volunteering. I am considering this important and valuable report and I hope to be in a position to respond in the very near future. Discussions with the Minister for Finance will take place as and when they are required.

An Ceann Comhairle

As these are oral questions, not more than 12 minutes is allotted.

Mr. O’Shea

I would like the Minister of State's views on the issue of a vetting system for people who deal with children or vulnerable adults. Undoubtedly there is a difficulty nowadays in that people are somewhat reluctant to volunteer because of revelations in various areas that people abused clients. This is very important in terms of people having the confidence to become involved in the area.

On the issue of in-service training for people involved in volunteering, is the Minister of State disposed towards making money available for this training? I gather from previous replies that he does not intend to introduce legislation to deal with this sector. As argued in the report, there is a real need to provide incentives for people to become involved in the sector.

Mr. N. Ahern

The Department is studying the report, which is interesting. Different aspects of the report, which includes some good suggestions, are being examined. Following the Tipping the Balance report, a sub-committee of the IAG considered how to move forward on volunteering. I will attend the committee fairly soon and I hope by then the Department will have examined the report. I do not want to give the impression that I will be able to act on all the recommendations in the report. However, I hope to be able to offer support in regard to some of the good suggestions made. Many training supports are already available to general groups in the community and voluntary sector, but perhaps more training can be provided. There is the general departmental training scheme and, under the FEDS and NETS, training was provided to a number of groups.

Vetting is an important issue. Many matters might not come under the aegis of my Department because the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda are involved in the matter. The report is being examined and I hope to have some good news within the next few weeks.

Mr. Boyle

Does the Minister of State find it embarrassing that four and a half years after the White Paper on voluntary activity and two and a half years after publication of the Tipping the Balance report he is responding to a report from an Oireachtas committee when his Department has not responded to the recommendations of the original report and the response by the community and voluntary sector?

The fact that there was a reference to the White Paper in the Minister of State's previous reply indicates he is being selective in how it can and should be interpreted. I argue that one of the factors in determining whether the Department is successful in this regard is the number of volunteers in our society, whether they feel secure in offering themselves as volunteers and whether adequate resources are being provided. The Department is failing on each of those criterion. Rather than being an enabling Department, it has decided to be a distorting and controlling one. On those grounds, there is a case to answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

A question please, Deputy.

Mr. Boyle

I have put several questions.

Mr. N. Ahern

Considerable progress has been made on the White Paper and many of its recommendations have been implemented. I accept that the recommendations of some of these reports, particularly those of Tipping the Balance, were not implemented overnight.

Mr. Boyle

They were not implemented at all.

Mr. N. Ahern

The situation is evolving. Since the Department was set up we have been working with this sector to streamline services. Everything cannot be done overnight. In regard to proposals from the Oireachtas committee, we have been working on proposals for volunteering for some time. A sub-committee of the IAG has examined them from the point of view of a introducing a White Paper and from the point of view of the recommendations in Tipping the Balance. It is timely that the Oireachtas report has come forward, as we were working on these proposals. Within a couple of weeks, irrespective of whether it has taken four and a half years to get to this point, we will be bring forward measures from a structural point of view to assist in working with people who are trying to encourage and promote volunteering on a short-term and a long-term basis.

Mr. O’Shea

The committee's report contained other recommendations on where moneys in the dormant accounts fund should be targeted and on the use of the proceeds on the foot of actions taken by the Criminal Assets Bureau. I am referring to the proceeds from drug peddling and so on. It is recommended that those moneys should be redirected into the communities from which they came in the first place to combat social evils. There are many worthwhile suggestions in the report.

It is estimated that the activities of volunteers save the State up to €485 million a year. Having regard to that, there is nothing particularly generous in the financing of in-service training. What is the Minister of State's view on how much, if any, of the proceeds of the Criminal Assets Bureau should be redirected into those areas that have been affected by drugs-related crime? Has he a view in this respect on the allocation of moneys in the dormant accounts fund?

Mr. N. Ahern

I accept calling for CAB moneys to be put back into projects in communities that have been damaged by drugs is a frequent cry of people in the community. All CAB moneys were locked away, kept in suspension or whatever is the proper phrase for a seven-year period. This is the first year any of that money will be available for allocation to these projects or that it can be given to the Exchequer. It would be grand if it was redirected into projects in the community, but fundamentally it is important to ensure that proper resources are allocated to the drug task forces and into community programmes, and that has been happening. Funding to tackle the drugs problem is up 18% this year. If one were advised that one's source of funds would be CAB moneys, one would be concerned about relying on such funds, which may be good or bad from year to year. I do not much care from where the money comes once the money that is needed can be put into these communities.

The dormant accounts legislation is going through and some volunteer groups applied for funding under the original tranche of funds. The Department will be examining that when the new legislation is in place and the new system is operating.

Cecilia Keaveney

Does the Minister of State agree that funding should be streamlined? As a result of the multiplicity of applications, people who apply to many funds spend more time on administration than they would if things were streamlined in one Department.

Is a national campaign to promote volunteering necessary at present? We did not cover insurance in the report but within the context of a national advertising campaign on volunteering, could a national insurance scheme be established so multiple groups could come together to apply for insurance and, therefore, get the best deal possible? Many people using facilities have their own insurance but the building owners are also asked for insurance so sometimes groups are hit with a double whammy when it comes to insurance cover.

Mr. N. Ahern

There are too many sources of funding for community groups, that is one reason why the Department was established. Some groups spend 95% of their time chasing funds from different agencies, programmes and headings but it all comes back to State funding. We would like to be the only funding agency for many of these community groups — it would make sense but trying to pull that together is a difficult job. It would allow people to spend their time on what they should really be doing rather than chasing funds and making submissions here, there and everywhere.

We can help by promoting volunteering. The best way to do that, as suggested in the committee's report, is to bring this into schools and focus on it, particularly in transition year and on to third level. If young people become involved and are interested in and committed to volunteering at an early stage, that commitment will continue into later life. That is a recommendation in this and previous reports and I would like it implemented. I hope I will be able to do that when we have finalised our ideas.

The Deputy has spoken to me about insurance and although that comes under the auspices of another Department, I understand where she is coming from. From my involvement in sport and community organisations, I understand this and will examine it to see if we can help groups on that point.

Mr. O’Dowd

Does the Minister of State agree it is time to direct more energy into volunteering? In conjunction with the Minister for Education and Science, he could ask schools to become involved in volunteering. They could then direct teenagers to go and visit old people who have no one to visit them at home or in hospital. We are too relaxed about this. It is no wonder that volunteering is dwindling when this Government is not focused on a constructive, determined effort to look after the less well off in the community.

Does the Minister of State agree that the money from the Criminal Assets Bureau should not go back into the central Exchequer but should be used in programmes in communities which are deprived and suffer from drug abuse and criminality? The money should be invested into those areas in addition to the existing budget. We know from year to year how much the Criminal Assets Bureau holds because it is held for seven years before——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is moving well away from the question.

Mr. O’Dowd

We might be, but the Minister of State moved away from it as well.

Mr. N. Ahern

The point on schools was made in the report. That is one of the areas I would like to help to fund and to encourage volunteering in the transition year programme. I am not in the Department of Education and Science. The funds in my Department will not solve every problem. However, we are hoping to take some measures in that regard.

Community Development.

Fergus O'Dowd

Question:

7 Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason the allocation to local roads projects in CLÁR areas has not been increased for 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5821/05]

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

9 Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the position regarding the CLÁR programme; his plans to review the programme during 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5802/05]

Bernard J. Durkan

Question:

13 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his expenditure in the past 12 months under the CLÁR programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5974/05]

Billy Timmins

Question:

29 Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the areas in counties Carlow and Wicklow which qualify for funding under the CLÁR programme; the funding for these areas which has been applied for since 1997; the funding which has been granted; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5823/05]

Denis Naughten

Question:

36 Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his plans to review the CLÁR areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5707/05]

Denis Naughten

Question:

41 Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his plans to perform a further review of CLÁR areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5708/05]

Bernard J. Durkan

Question:

275 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his plans for the development of the CLÁR programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6010/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 9, 13, 29, 36, 41 and 275 together.

An Ceann Comhairle

As three of these are oral questions, not more than 18 minutes is allotted.

Éamon Ó Cuív

I introduced the CLÁR programme in October 2001 to address depopulation, as well as the decline and lack of services in rural areas. Areas in 18 counties, amounting to a total population of 362,000, have been selected under the programme, including areas I announced in January 2003 in light of the 2002 population census data. This honoured the commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government to review the programme. Areas included were those that suffered the greatest population decline from 1926 to 2002 with an average population loss of 50%. The exception is the Cooley Peninsula, which was included on the basis of the serious difficulties caused there by foot and mouth disease. No areas of counties Carlow or Wicklow were included in the programme. There are no plans for any further review of the boundary of CLÁR areas and no other significant areas fulfil the population criteria for inclusion in CLÁR.

CLÁR funds, or co-funds, together with other Departments, State agencies and local authorities, investment in selected priority developments. These investments are made through a series of more than 20 measures which support physical, economic and social infrastructure such as electricity conversion, roads, water and sewerage, village, housing and schools enhancement, health, broadband and sports and community projects. The measures reflect the priorities identified by the communities in the selected areas whom I consulted at the beginning of the programme.

The measures were agreed with and are, for the most part, operated in tandem with the lead Departments, State agencies or public utilities, as appropriate. This ensures efficiency and effectiveness and meets the needs of the people in the CLÁR areas. I intend to continue this practice for new measures I may introduce, depending on identified needs. Equally, I will keep the operation of existing measures under review.

The merits of this practice are reflected in the successful delivery of the programme and vividly demonstrate that relatively small amounts of specifically targeted public funding can have a profound and positive impact in disadvantaged rural areas. Expenditure under the programme amounted to €14.14 million in 2002, €8.613 million in 2003 and €12.116 million in 2004, which it is estimated levered out a further €36 million in related public and private expenditure in those three years. The provisional Estimate for 2005 is €13.7 million, an increase of more than 13% on the 2004 outturn. I have recently decided on the allocation of the 2005 provision to existing measures and possible new measures. As a result, I expect that, once again, a comprehensive work programme will be completed in 2005.

I recently announced €6 million co-funding with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for non-national roads projects in CLÁR areas. This funding will continue to improve the provision of local road access and the installation of flashing amber safety lights at schools. Local authorities may also replace, widen or strengthen bridges from their 2005 allocation.

I am satisfied that this allocation will be sufficient to improve significantly local roads in CLÁR areas this year. CLÁR will also fund other categories of local roads this year, namely, local improvement scheme roads and forestry access roads. I expect that CLÁR investment in these roads in 2005 will be in the region of €3 million.

Mr. O’Dowd

I thank the Minister for his reply. Is it the case that funding for local road schemes has not been increased for the past two years and has stood at €6 million a year? Does the Minister agree that, given rising costs and expenses, it is not good enough to say that this will be sufficient to do all the work needed in rural areas, particularly disadvantaged rural areas? Those of us who are canvassing in Kildare North and Meath may not necessarily be in the CLÁR areas, but we know the importance of safety at primary schools. More input is needed from the Minister's Department and the State in looking after the safety and well-being of young children using our primary schools, particularly in rural areas. Will the Minister agree there is a significant number of rural roads that need this funding and it is a shame and a disgrace that the funding has not been increased this year?

Éamon Ó Cuív

The Deputy is correct in saying the amount of money provided this year is the same as that provided last year. The budget is up 13% on the expenditure last year. There are choices to be made. In his question the Deputy highlighted the answer to his question. While there are problems with roads, there has been a huge improvement in rural roads in the past seven or eight years. The fundamental responsibility for roads rests with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and local authorities. In terms of CLÁR funding we set out to narrow the gap that we perceived existed between small roads in CLÁR areas and those in the rest of the country, to bring the roads in those areas on a par with the others.

We are satisfied that under this measure significant progress will be made during the next three to four years, taking into account the work done in the past two years. If I increase the money for roads, there are other new programmes for which I cannot increase funding. I will certainly spend the whole €13.7 million and, therefore, it is a question of price. A "steady as she goes" policy is very effective. The particular mechanism identified ensures this money is additional in CLÁR areas and it has made a significant difference on the ground in respect of the worst of these small roads.

Mr. O’Shea

When the Minister responded to similar questions in December he spoke about introducing new measures depending on demand and indicated that he is looking at new measures. What type of measures has he in mind? In a situation where there is an increase of only 13% in funding over last year, is it realistic to speak of the introduction of worthwhile new measures?

Éamon Ó Cuív

It depends on all kinds of factors, carry-overs and so on. Last year we tried to ensure that the building was done on time and we paid for them all. I am confident that some new measures can be introduced. Some of the measures introduced previously have a certain shelf life, for example, the three phase electricity conversions for businesses. Obviously there was a big demand in the beginning but it appears from the number of applications now being received that most businesses that needed these conversions have converted. Therefore, the demand for that scheme is slowing down.

There is a number of other small schemes that do not require the same amount of money this year as in previous years. It is a question of using the money to best effect. We are looking at a number of schemes. Given that discussions are taking place, I do not want to pre-empt those discussions. One of the golden rules of CLÁR is that nothing is agreed until the relevant State agency or Department has come on board and agreed the projects. In general, there are small issues of public infrastructure in typical low-population rural areas, relating to leisure and other kinds of infrastructure.

Mr. Boyle

Will the Minister agree there is a need to be more open about how CLÁR funding is accessed and used? I cite the example of his Cabinet colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who made an announcement on child care last Friday. He stated that €1.1 million of the money was being allocated to RAPID and CLÁR areas. Unless one had a map one could not tell which was specific RAPID or CLÁR funding. Part of the problem in knowing whether the budget is being effectively spent or whether it is additional money is that we do not receive that information.

A possible use for CLÁR funding, small as it is, should be to go beyond basic infrastructure and see how isolated rural communities can benefit. Perhaps the will suggest to his colleague, the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, that some of this money be used to update the information technology infrastructure given that many isolated communities cannot take advantage of a world that is moving apace in this area?

Éamon Ó Cuív

In response to the Deputy's first question, my Department will lead because we have to spell out the exact information in issuing a press release. I hope I will not then be accused of double announcing the same measure.

Mr. O’Dowd

The Minister would never do that.

Éamon Ó Cuív

We set out the information and it will be made available by my Department. None of those troika projects is co-funded under CLÁR as that is not how that programme works. However, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform prioritises the RAPID areas. When the Deputy sees the list which will be published he will be aware that out of the total, it is significant.

We have done quite an amount of work on broadband for which we had two schemes. A number of metropolitan networks were installed in conjunction with Údarás na Gaeltachta. Last year we announced 12 wireless-based broadband projects for CLÁR areas. We discussed this matter with the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources because, wearing my broader rural development hat, I am interested in ensuring rural areas are not left behind in regard to the whole question of rural broadband. We want to see whether the group broadband scheme is the best vehicle to deliver broadband to rural communities. Those discussions are taking place with the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. Obviously I will not fund projects where there is enough funding. I am also in consultation with the various partners, the regional development agencies, the Western Development Commission, Údarás na Gaeltachta and so on as they have a major role to play in regard to the provision of broadband in rural areas.

Mr. Crawford

I refer to the idea of an extension of CLÁR and I am certainly not asking for a massive expansion of the existing area. I raised the matter with the Minister previously regarding a couple of specific areas in north County Monaghan surrounded by the Border, the Knockatallon and Bragan mountainous area. Clearly that area is eligible but is not a significant area in its own right in terms of qualifying. That it is cut off by the Border should be taken into account. The same situation prevails outside Castleblayney in the Mullyash mountain. That Bragan and Mullyash mountains can be clearly identified as being eligible shows the difficulty of those residing there. I beg the Minister to reconsider that issue in light of the peace situation — difficult as it is——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is going outside the realm of the question relating to Carlow and Wicklow.

Mr. Crawford

Is the Cheann Comhairle objecting to me trying to get something done for Monaghan?

An Ceann Comhairle

No.

Mr. Crawford

I am very surprised.

An Ceann Comhairle

I sympathise with the Deputy but he cannot be seen to allow the Deputy——

Mr. Crawford

I used the opportunity to ask the Minister in all sincerity to reconsider this issue. The Ceann Comhairle's party colleagues have raised the matter on umpteen occasions.

Éamon Ó Cuív

What the Deputy would like is that I would not extend CLÁR too far but include all County Monaghan in the programme. It was a good try on the part of the Deputy. I would love to include the whole of Connemara in the CLÁR programme but there was no extension in 2002 of Connemara because it was not warranted. The issue was looked at very carefully. I have here a map that shows the DEDs that are in CLÁR and, in blue, the DEDs in every county that are not in CLÁR that had a population decline of over 50%. There is only one DED in County Monaghan with a population decline of more than 50% that is not included in CLÁR, and it is not in the north but in the east of the county. That is according to the maps that were professionally prepared for us.

Since the question was raised in regard to Wicklow and Carlow, according to the maps, it appears there are two DEDs in Carlow with a population decline of more than 50%, one on each side of the county. There are three in County Wicklow which are also separate from each other. The Department has tried to be as fair and objective as is humanly possible. Very clear ground rules were laid down and every area was examined in detail. It seems to me there is no other area that, on any fair and objective grounds, could by any stretch of the imagination be included in the CLÁR area and therefore the current CLÁR boundaries will remain. If the Deputy wishes, I will supply him with a copy of the map.

Mr. Crawford

I thank the Minister.

Foras na Gaeilge.

Joan Burton

Question:

8 D’fhiafraigh Ms Burton den Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an aontaíonn sé nach dtuigeann Foras na Gaeilge conas airgead a dháileadh go héifeachtach (sonraí tugtha); agus an ndéanfaidh sé ráiteas ina leith. [5791/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

Tá a fhios agam go n-aontaíonn na Teachtaí liom go bhfuil obair thábhachtach ar siúl ag Foras na Gaeilge ar mhaithe le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge ar fud oileáin na hÉireann agus go bhfuil gníomhaíochtaí na n-eagras deonacha Gaeilge mar chuid bhunúsach de sin. Is den riachtanas é, mar sin, go mbeadh comhpháirtnéireacht éifeachtach i bhfeidhm idir an foras agus na h-eagrais dheonacha d'fhonn a gcuid aidhmeanna comónta i leith na Gaeilge a chur chun cinn. Tá prionsabal sin na páirtnéireachta aitheanta go sonrach i bplean oibre an fhorais. Sa chomhthéacs sin, bhí díomá orm gur éirigh easaontas le déanaí idir Foras na Gaeilge agus na heagrais dheonacha a bhain go príomha, mar a thuigim, le córas úr atá tugtha isteach ag an bhforas i ndáil le maoiniú na n-eagras.

Tuigfidh na Teachtaí, ar ndóigh, gur cheist d'Fhoras na Gaeilge féin cinntí a dhéanamh maidir le soláthar deontas, i gcomhréir leis an réimse reachtúil ina bhfeidhmíonn sé agus na pleananna oibre agus corparáide atá aige. Is ar éigean is gá dom a rá freisin nach bhfuil ceist ar bith ach gur chóir go mbeadh dea-chleachtais i bhfeidhm ag an bhforas agus ag na heagrais araon maidir le caiteachas an airgid phoiblí atá i gceist agus cuntas cuí a thabhairt ar an gcaiteachas sin.

Tuigim go raibh roinnt cruinnithe ag grúpa ionadaíoch ó na heagrais dheonacha, agus ag eagrais aonaracha chomh maith, leis an bhforas le tamall gairid anuas d'fhonn na ceisteanna seo a chíoradh. Chomh maith leis sin, chas ionadaithe thar ceann na n-eagras le hoifigigh ó mo Roinn chun an cás a phlé. Tá curtha in iúl dom go bhfuil próiseas comhairleach ar siúl faoi láthair idir an bhforas agus na heagrais dheonacha d'fhonn teacht ar réiteach ar an scéal. Beidh oifigigh ó mo Roinn féin ar fáil, más cuí, le cabhrú leis an bpróiseas sin ar aon bhealach is féidir.

Mr. O’Shea

Phléamar cuid den cheist seo cheana féin, ach mar gheall ar airgead a dháileadh. Bhí dream amháin i mo dháilcheantar ag fáil airgid, is é sin, Port Láirge le Gaelain. Níl pingin rua á fáil aige i mbliana. Níl aon deontas ag dul go dtí aon eagras eile sa dáilcheantar nó, de réir mar is eol dom, go dtí aon eagras san iardheisceart. Sin rud atá go mór i mbéal na ndaoine i mo dháilcheantar.

Féachaimis ar an suirbhé sin. Ní maith liom rudaí mar seo a rá, ach fuarthas amach nach raibh íomhá mhaith ag Foras na Gaeilge sna meáin chumarsáide agus nach mbíodh na cinntí a rinne sé trédhearcach amantaí. Sin rud eile nach bhfuil go maith. Luaíodh easpa físe agus straitéise agus an iomarca béime ar chúrsaí riaracháin. Níl sé seo go maith. Tá súil agam go dtiocfaidh tairbhe mhaith as na cainteanna go léir atá ar siúl faoi láthair go luath mar ní féidir linn ligint do rud mar seo tarlú le heagraíocht atá chomh tábhachtach le Foras na Gaeilge.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Tá tuiscint agam don rud atáá rá ag an Teachta. Seo an fhadhb. Tá an córas ar fad meáite anois ar chomórtas oscailte a bheith ann ionas gur féidir le gach duine iarratas a chur isteach chuige. Bíonn rialacha leagtha síos roimh ré, agus braitheann an toradh ar an bpróiseas. De réir mar a thuigim, sin é go díreach an rud a tharla. Lorg an foras iarratais le haghaidh tograí den chineál atá i gceist ag an Teachta ó phobail, agus fuair sé na hiarratais sin. Bhí critéir leagtha síos aige le na hiarratais a mheas, agus — taitníodh sé nó ná taitníodh sé le héinne — nuair a tháinig sé go deireadh an phróisis, níor thug sé an freagra áirithe a teastaíodh. Ba mhó a bheadh lucht na cáinte ag casaoid dá gcaithfí an córas próiseála a leasú mar nach raibh sé ag tabhairt freagra a bhí sásúil nó an freagra a theastaigh ó dhaoine.

Ní fadhb le Foras na Gaeilge é sin ach leis an Státchóras ar fad, agus caithfimid bheith tuisceanach don fhoras sa méid is go gcaithfidh sé obair taobh istigh den Státchóras. Tá an Státchóras féin ag éileamh níos mó go mbeadh trédhearcacht den chinéal seo agus próiseas agus iarratais oscailte ann. Mar atá pléite againn den dara huair inniu, nuair a bhíonn próiseas mar sin ann, titeann dreamanna áirithe amach agus tagann dreamanna eile isteach. Má bhíonn na hiarratais is fearr ar fad as contae amháin, ar ndóigh, cad is féidir a dhéanamh ach an t-airgead a bhronnadh orthu?

Mr. O’Dowd

Cén fáth ar éirigh Aoife Ní Scolaí as oifig i gConradh na Gaeilge? Nach bhfuil sé fíor nach raibh aon mhuinín aici i bhForas na Gaeilge? Cé gur gnáthrud é go mbíonn achrainn idir grúpaí, tá sé an-tábhachtach ar fad nach mbeadh easpa tuisceana agus straitéise ag baint le Foras na Gaeilge. Nach bhfuil an tAire in ann aon rud a dhéanamh chun iad a chur ag caint le chéile? Tuigim an méid a dúirt an tAire le déanái, ach tá sé an-tábhachtach ar fad. Tá Conradh na Gaeilge ar cheann de na heagraíochtaí is tábhachtaíó thaobh na Gaeilge de. Tá sé ann ó 1893, agus tá sé an-tábhachtach go mbeadh sé sáite go díreach i gceartlár obair na Gaeilge, agus níl an mhuinín ann anois. Tá sé fíorthábhachtach go ndéanfaidh an tAire agus muid go léir ár ndícheall chun iad a chur ag caint le chéile arís.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Ní dhearna Aoife Ní Scolaí aon teagmháil liom sular éirigh sí as oifig, agus déarfainn gur thuig sí go maith an rud atáá rá agam. Ní raibh na gearáin nó fadhbanna a bhí aici bainteach le ról an Aire. Glacaim leis go raibh an plé a bhí aici leis an bhforas féin. Mar a mhínigh mé ar ball beag, de bharr gur foras trasteorann é seo, tá beirt Airí i gceist sna bunchinntí. Chomh maith leis sin, tá córas an-chinnte dlí ag baint leis seo ar fad. Tá ról an-chinnte leagtha síos faoin dlí do na hAirí. Tá an bheirt Airí ceaptha i gcónaí feidhmiú le chéile. Tá sé sin teoranta. Déarfainn féin gur thuig Conradh na Gaeilge é sin.

Is é an ról atá agam sa rud nááitiú ar chuile dhuine. Ní raibh a fhios agam roimh ré. Cuireadh scéal go hindíreach chugam cúpla lá roimh ré. Níor labhair an duine a bhí i gceist ag an Teachta liom go díreach faoi. Níor thóg sí aon cheist liom, glacaim leis, ar na cúiseanna a luaigh mé. Is é an t-aon rud is féidir liom a dhéanamh ná an dá thaobh a ghríosú suí síos le chéile chun an cás a phlé agus aon rud a dhéanamh chun é a oibriú amach.

Caithfidhmid é seo a thuiscint. Tá méid áirithe pianta fáis i gceist anseo. Tá eagraíocht nua ar an talamh — Foras na Gaeilge. Tá athrú cur chuige agus struchtúrtha i gceist, agus aon uair a bhíonn rud mar seo ann le h-athruithe, bíonn fadhbanna ann. Is cuma cén chaoi a dtabharfadh an Foras faoi, bheadh pianta fáis ann mar bheadh buaiteoirí agus caillteoirí ann. Ní hé an rud go raibh an oiread taithí ag pobal na Gaeilge air sa mhéad is go raibh na heagraíochtaí céanna á maoiniú le fada an lá.

Tá súil agam anois, ag éirí as an gcomhphlé, go mbeidh tuiscint níos fearr ag an dá thaobh ar a chéile agus nach n-éireoidh na fadhbanna seo arís. Mar a deirim, is é eachtra aon uaire atá i gceist anseo, agus feicfear i gceann bliana go bhfuil na fadhbanna seo leigheasta.

Question No. 9 answered with QuestionNo. 7.

Anti-Poverty Strategy.

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

10 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if the Community Workers Co-operative received a favourable report from the Combat Poverty Agency in its most recent evaluation of organisations funded by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5799/05]

Ciarán Cuffe

Question:

12 Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the new criteria which have been introduced for the national anti-poverty networks programme and which the Community Workers Co-operative has failed to meet. [5779/05]

Eamon Ryan

Question:

19 Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the process which has been carried out to determine that the Community Workers Co-operative alone of the ten national anti-poverty networks, has failed to meet the necessary criteria for funding. [5780/05]

Seán Ryan

Question:

20 Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the opinion of the director of the Combat Poverty Agency that the CWC has been at the forefront in supporting the development of an independent voice for persons who are excluded, in playing an essential role in the provision of information and resource guides on anti-poverty policy development and providing support to the most marginalised communities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5540/05]

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

21 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason he decided to withdraw funding from the community workers co-operative as announced in January 2005; if his attention has been drawn to the concern in the community and voluntary sector that the CWC may have been penalised in this manner owing to its criticisms of Sustaining Progress; if he has plans to restore funding to the CWC; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5798/05]

Brendan Howlin

Question:

24 Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the perceived increased top-down control of community organisations by his Department which has brought about frustration and increased concern in the sector will be further drastically increased by his decision to withdraw funding from the Community Workers Co-operative; if he will reconsider his decision; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5541/05]

John Gormley

Question:

28 Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the PEACE funding which has been allocated to the Community Workers Co-operative is the amount received for a cross-Border project from 2002 until June 2005. [5782/05]

Brendan Howlin

Question:

31 Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the criteria under which the Community Workers Co-operative lost its funding from his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5813/05]

Ciarán Cuffe

Question:

35 Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the Community Workers Co-operative has been funded under the national anti-poverty networks programme since 1993, is named as an anti-poverty network in the Government’s White Paper, Supporting Voluntary Activity, and that all assessments of its work confirm that it meets the criteria for an anti-poverty network. [5778/05]

Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Question:

37 Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the removal of the €150,000 core funding will result in the closure of the Community Workers Co-operative. [5785/05]

Dan Boyle

Question:

43 Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason he has decided to remove funding from the Community Workers Co-operative. [5776/05]

Eamon Ryan

Question:

45 Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the outcry from hundreds of local and national organisations (details supplied) working against poverty reflects the importance of the anti-poverty work of the Community Workers Co-operative. [5781/05]

Kathleen Lynch

Question:

52 Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his attention has been drawn to recent criticisms of his decision to withdraw funding from the Community Workers Co-operative by representatives from a wide range of anti-poverty and community organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5814/05]

Dan Boyle

Question:

53 Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if criticism of Government policy is grounds for having State funding removed from community and voluntary groups. [5777/05]

Kathleen Lynch

Question:

55 Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has introduced new criteria for organisations to achieve funding under the national anti-poverty networks programme; if so, when these criteria were introduced; if the ten anti-poverty networks were informed of these criteria; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5815/05]

Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Question:

57 Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the closure of the national office of the Community Workers Co-operative will put the possibility of continued funding under the PEACE programme seriously at risk given that the contract for the project is between the national organisation and the PEACE programme. [5784/05]

Seán Ardagh

Question:

264 Mr. Ardagh asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his plans for the funding of the Community Workers Co-operative in the Rialto area; and his views on whether the work and support of the co-operative has been of great benefit to the voluntary and financially sponsored organisations in the area (details supplied). [5829/05]

John Gormley

Question:

265 Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason for the withdrawal of funding from the Community Workers Co-operative; if he will reverse this decision; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5846/05]

Bernard Allen

Question:

266 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason funding has been withdrawn from the Community Workers Co-operative national organisation; and if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the decision to withdraw funding has been viewed as an attempt to silence an organisation which has sought to promote debate on the way in which to tackle the causes of poverty and injustice in society; and if he will reconsider his decision. [5871/05]

Mr. N. Ahern

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 12, 19 to 21, inclusive, 24, 28, 31, 35, 37, 43, 45, 52, 53, 55, 57 and 264 to 266, inclusive, together.

I have dealt with this issue comprehensively during Priority Questions and in previous questions on the matter in the House. The position is that in the context of concentrating the focus of my Department's resources on communities experiencing disadvantage and isolation, I did not believe continued funding of the Community Workers Co-operative could be justified. I prefer my Department's resources to be concentrated directly on communities suffering disadvantage.

In this context, the Community Workers Co-operative falls short of the standards of the White Paper that each network should have a membership base which ensures the voice of disadvantaged marginalised groups will find expression in relevant national fora and that individual networks should be genuinely representative and avoid unnecessary overlaps vis-à-vis each other. Other anti-poverty networks which will continue to receive funding have a specific focus, for example, on Travellers, unemployment, refugees and rural disadvantage.

It has been asserted that the Combat Poverty Agency's evaluation of the work of the Community Workers Co-operative was positive. However, the documents provided by the agency do not demonstrate that the Community Workers Co-operative is focused on communities experiencing disadvantage.

With regard to the project involving the Community Workers Co-operative under the PEACE programme, I have no function in the details of the contract between the CWC and the implementing agency. ADM and the Combat Poverty Agency are jointly responsible for implementing the relevant measure of the PEACE programme. I understand, however, that discontinuing funding of CWC as an anti-poverty network does not, of itself, put the operation of this contract at risk.

The CWC decision does not affect the funding for the Rialto Community Network, which will continue to be supported by my Department under the community development programme. The number and nature of the correspondence I have received on my decision suggests an orchestrated campaign rather than a spontaneous response.

Mr. O’Shea

With regard to the PEACE programme, how will the contract be fully implemented given that the removal of its core funding would mean the Community Workers Co-operative will cease to operate beyond 31 March?

The Minister of State offered general reasons for the removal of all funding from only one of ten national networks, the Community Workers Co-operative. He misunderstands what precisely the Community Workers Co-operative does. For instance, it provides material and news within the sector but more importantly — this is clear from the correspondence received by the Minister of State — it has helped groups within various sectors move forward in a more structured and organised manner and plays a vital role in evaluating national policy. It would be a major mistake to take the view that State-funded organisations should be gagged if they do not agree with some of the measures in which the State is involved.

The Minister of State referred to an orchestrated campaign. While the national organisations may have communicated with one another, all of them have written to the Minister of State on this issue. They did not do so because they were asked to write to the Department stating that funding for the Community Workers Co-operative should continue or they believed they had nothing to lose. Rather, from what I can gauge, it is generally believed that the CWC has a distinctive role to play in the sector.

The Minister of State referred to the positive report from the Combat Poverty Agency. As he is aware, the agency went much further than that by expressing genuine concern that the Community Workers Co-operative will be forced out of existence by the withdrawal of its core funding.

The Minister of State misinterpreted my comment that the Community Workers Co-operative is regarded as a trade union in some quarters. The quarters to which I was referring are the Department and the Minister of State. Individuals in the sector belong to their own trade unions. It is incorrect to view the role of the Community Workers Co-operative as a trade union.

Mr. N. Ahern

I am sorry if I misinterpreted the Deputy's remark regarding trade unions. The PEACE programme is operated directly by ADM Limited and the Combat Poverty Agency. If the Community Workers Co-operative has a difficulty continuing with the programme, I am sure the matter will be examined. The general opinion, however, is that problems should not arise regarding the programme.

Contrary to what the Deputy indicated, my comments were not general. The Department assumed responsibility for the programme after its three-year timeframe had elapsed. It was the function of the Department to evaluate the programme in accordance with criteria specified in the White Paper. We obtained work plans last year and, having examined the work programmes, we decided whether the organisations concerned focused directly on groups suffering disadvantage and isolation.

The Deputy stated that the Community Workers Co-operative does considerable good work, publishes news and materials and helps groups. While that may be the case, the Department's decision was taken on the basis of criteria laid down in the White Paper concerning what groups funded under the programme should be doing. Our decision was, therefore, based on the work programmes as presented to the Department.

The Community Workers Co-operative is different from the other nine networks because the latter have a much more focused approach and operate much more in accordance with the criteria laid down in the White Paper and applied by the Department. The other networks focus on particular disadvantaged groups such as the unemployed, Travellers, refugees, those suffering isolation or rural poverty, lone parents, disabled people and older people. It was on this basis that the Department made the decision to spend the resources available to it on those working at the coalface with groups suffering disadvantage or isolation.

Mr. Boyle

The answers given by the Minister of State are far from satisfactory. How will the saving of €150,000 he believes will accrue from this decision be allocated? Will a specific disadvantaged community receive €150,000? Will ten communities be allocated €15,000 each? Will 100 communities be allocated €1,500 each?

Most of what the Minister of State said is not true and does not bear scrutiny. Of the other nine groups in the National Anti-Poverty Network, several are involved in general activities, including identifying poverty and providing resources to alleviate it. If the Minister of State is arguing that the Department's policy is to address niche poverty, the problems are more serious than we thought.

It is not true that the Community Workers Co-operative operates as an organisation of community representatives. It is, like each of the other nine bodies in the anti-poverty network, a representative community organisation. If the Minister of State does not see that distinction, I despair of the reason for the Department's existence. It seems that a saving of €150,000 is to be made because the Government has decided that this body, which has been told it will not participate in the social partnership process because it has disagreed with the Government, should have its funding discontinued on the basis that it has identified how Government policies are operating negatively and to the disadvantage of the poor. The Minister of State does not realise that his Department's decision has created a sense of fear throughout the community and voluntary sector that those groups which receive Government funding are likely to have that funding removed if the Government disapproves of how they operate.

It is obvious from the testimonials of the nine other organisations involved in the anti-poverty network that the Community Workers Co-operative does valuable work in terms of training, organising seminars, issuing publications and so on. All this work is dedicated to the identification and alleviation of needs in disadvantaged communities. It is unbelievable that the Minister of State contends that the €150,000 to be saved by his Department will somehow be put to better use for disadvantaged communities when the Combat Poverty Agency, the State body set up to advise the Government on how resources in this area can best be used, has said it will be counteractive to remove this funding.

How will the PEACE II programme operate when funding is only made available for the additional work that is done through the programme itself? There will be no workers to deliver that programme because of the removal of core funding.

Mr. N. Ahern

I am not sure what questions Deputy Boyle has asked.

Mr. Boyle

The Minister of State should write down my questions. He tried this tactic earlier.

Mr. N. Ahern

Deputy Boyle made a speech rather than asking questions.

Mr. Boyle

The Minister of State can read the questions I submitted.

Mr. O’Dowd

The Minister of State's difficulty is that he is answering too many questions together.

Mr. N. Ahern

I will try to respond to Deputy Boyle's questions. The saving of €150,000 is relatively small in the overall context of the budget of €300 million for such community programmes. However, this saving does not represent a cutback. The overall funding in this area will increase by 8% this year.

Mr. Boyle

To what purpose will the €150,000 be diverted?

Mr. N. Ahern

The group in question is not the only one with which the Department works. Our function is to examine the situation in communities and to bring order and coherence to the various schemes that were funded by various Departments in the past. We have made some decisions that may be deemed harsh but they have been for the greater good. Last year, we agreed funding for 15 new community development programmes. This year's funding will be spent appropriately in working with communities to alleviate disadvantage. The other nine groups are much more focused and targeted in working with individual groups.

Mr. Boyle

That is not true.

Mr. N. Ahern

We see the Community Workers Co-operative as the voice of community workers. That is evident from the co-operative's work plan and programme.

Mr. Boyle

That is not true either and the Minister of State knows it.

Mr. N. Ahern

The other nine organisations are much more targeted. This was one of the key elements of the White Paper, which provides that continued funding of the networks be reviewed at the end of the contract period, that the key criteria should include a membership base that ensures the voice of disadvantaged and marginalised groups will find expression in relevant national fora and that individual networks should be genuinely representative and avoid unnecessary overlaps vis-à-vis each other. The Community Workers Co-operative did not have its own focus or niche area and it overlapped with other groups.

The Department gives significant support to communities in assisting their self-development. We fund 38 partnership companies, 185 community development projects, 32 community partnerships and six regional support agencies. Moreover, under the provisions of the White Paper, there are 70 networks and federations. Last year, we made some savings in regard to the regional support agencies by refocusing and reducing numbers. It is our role to constantly undertake such reviews and we will continue to do so. We cannot hope to improve the sector by adopting a policy based only on constant giving. We must evaluate and make decisions. In this context, it may be that some organisations which believed they were doing well will be obliged to alter their focus.

This action is not being taken because the organisation in question has taken an independent line. As a consequence of my responsibilities in two Departments, I am aware that community and voluntary organisations are well able to stand up for themselves. The notion that the Government is being hard on a group or wishes to take it out because it can stand up for itself and give a contrary view is nonsense. Contrary views are given all the time and it is the purpose of such groups to provide input. There is no basis for the contention that the Department is venting its anger at one group.

I will not comment on the involvement of the Combat Poverty Agency in this matter. The actions of that group are its own business and I will not cause a row with any other State agency. The Combat Poverty Agency originally operated the scheme and may be loyal to that procedure. However, it was decided the scheme should come under the aegis of my Department and the White Paper provides the guiding principles in that regard. We must evaluate and make decisions based on ongoing changes. We have made such a decision in regard to the programme, which was previously evaluated and received a positive recommendation. We are retaining nine of the anti-poverty networks and are providing increased funding. These groups have submitted good work programmes on which the Department can co-operate over the next two years.

Mr. Boyle

Of the questions taken together by the Minister of State, the greater number were in my name and those of my colleagues. Will I have an opportunity to respond on this issue?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The allocated time of 18 minutes is almost up.

Mr. Boyle

Has that time been exceeded already?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Yes, the time has expired. Deputy O'Dowd may respond briefly.

Mr. O’Dowd

We have heard some soporific views expressed on the other side of the House. The Government is about to commit a political raid on the €200 million contained in the dormant accounts fund for those most in need, the community and anti-poverty organisations. In the past, decisions were not made on behalf of those groups by the Minister of State or his Department but by the Dormant Accounts Fund Disbursements Board. The Minister of State's political raid on that €200 million is disgraceful and shameful. He stands accused of the most awful political action in taking from community anti-poverty groups, which represent the most needy in society, the facility of an independent decision-making process in regard to the badly needed funding they receive. The Minister of State is taking for himself the decision-making capacity to distribute that money as he wishes and at his consent. The issue has been utterly politicised.

I do not know much about the organisation of which the Minister of State has spoken. However, it is clearly a well organised group with nationwide experience of working in this area and it has been treated shamefully by the Government. The Minister of State has handled this matter in a disgraceful fashion and should resign.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will allow Deputy Boyle a brief supplementary.

Mr. Boyle

I understand the nine remaining anti-poverty networks are all based in Dublin. The organisation for which funding is to be discontinued is the only one of the original ten which is based outside Dublin, in the constituency of the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív. The Minister's silence on this subject is appalling.

Mr. O’Shea

Today, it was alleged to me that within days of the announcement of the withdrawal of funding from the Community Workers Co-operative funding was announced for organisations with no involvement in either anti-poverty or equality measures.

Mr. N. Ahern

The dormant accounts fund is a different issue and legislation on it will be debated in the House either this evening or tomorrow. Approximately €60 million has been allocated by the Dormant Accounts Fund Disbursements Board.

Mr. O’Dowd

It was independently allocated. Now it will be decided by the Minister's political masters.

Mr. N. Ahern

Funding is going to those groups most in need. Those groups will be targeted in the future, even with our introduction of changes to the board's structure and improved governance. Regarding Deputy Boyle's questions, it has nothing to do with where the groups' staff are located——

Mr. Boyle

It has nothing to do with their views or their location. The Minister of State is not giving any answers.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Allow the Minister of State to conclude.

Mr. N. Ahern

It has nothing to do with that whatsoever. The Deputy is playing the "25 counties against one" game. Decisions are based on who the groups work with, not on geography. The target groups, be they unemployed, refugees, elderly, Travellers——

Mr. Boyle

Where is the decentralisation programme now?

Mr. N. Ahern

It has nothing to do with where the staff are working. Last year savings were made by the Department and, at the end of year, these were provided for some groups in one-off funding.

Mr. O’Shea

Is it true that these groups had no focus on equality or anti-poverty measures?

Mr. N. Ahern

We are satisfied that the work those organisations are involved in conforms to the purpose and programme of the Department. There is ongoing funding under the national anti-poverty networks. The spare funding was from other programmes from within the Department with no relationship to the programme. Funding came from end-of-year savings in the Department. At the end of each year, the Department receives submissions from organisations in the hope that there may be a one-off payment. Those groups that received it are working in the general field. The issues that they are addressing are in accordance with the work of the programme.

Mr. O’Shea

The same can be said of the CWC.

Mr. N. Ahern

The funding came from one-off savings. This is annual funding which is a different programme. The CWC may get funding from other sources but not under this programme.

Irish Language.

Jan O'Sullivan

Question:

11 Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has had further discussions with the Department of Foreign Affairs following on recent discussions at EU level regarding the official status of the Irish language; if he has been informed whether discussions on the formal proposal tabled by Ireland by way of a draft amendment to EEC Regulation 1/1958 have been concluded; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5809/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

As previously indicated to the House in replies to Parliamentary Questions Nos. 48 and 81 on 14 Nollaig 2004, a process of discussions has been initiated with the other EU member states and the EU institutions seeking official and working language status for the Irish language in the EU under EEC Regulation 1/1958. The regulation is the legal instrument that governs the EU institutions' official and working language regime.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs announced on 24 November 2004 that Ireland had tabled a formal proposal, by way of a draft amendment to EEC Regulation 1/1958, requesting that official and working language status be accorded to the Irish language. The focus in the discussions, which are ongoing, with representatives of other EU member states and the EU institutions is on securing agreement on the practical modalities for this objective. As indicated in previous replies, it is inappropriate for me to make any public comment on the detail of these discussions until they have been brought to a conclusion.

Mr. O’Shea

The Minister's reply is identical to the reply given when this question was last raised. No Member on this side of the House wants to involve himself or herself in anything that could be detrimental to achieving official and working language status for the Irish language in the EU. However, one fears we will hear the same old song into the next general election. Have there been any developments since the announcement made on 24 November 2004 in furthering the achievement of status for the Irish language in the EU?

Éamon Ó Cuív

It is all or nothing in this process. We must get agreement from all EU member states. When we are satisfied that this objective has been reached, we will then seek to have a decision made. As the work is ongoing, I cannot say any more. Last February people claimed the Government would never make a decision on seeking status for the Irish language and would keep putting it off. I recall these same arguments with the Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla. In that case, we made the decision at the right time. The same applies to achieving recognition of the Irish language. Inniu sé an aimsir, but this is another one of those remarks made in the House about issues that will not be resolved before the next general election. I am confident that it will be resolved before the next election. I am also confident about the methodology used in achieving this objective.

Mr. O’Shea

I do not know where the Minister got the idea that people are claiming the objective will not be reached. We simply want to know what is happening. Is the Government being unsuccessful in a limited way? Are there major problems with some member states? Do some agree with the Irish position? Do some disagree, particularly those member states that have languages not considered a main language within their borders, but have larger numbers than Irish speakers speaking them as a first language? Members on this side of the House do not know what is happening, be it good, bad or indifferent. No one is commenting on whether it is desirable or otherwise. Will the Minister simply inform us, in as far as he can, as to what is happening? If all he has told us is all he can say, then he should not bother to reply.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Maybe I should not bother then as I cannot inform the House any more. The Deputy will be aware how these discussions take place. It would be inappropriate for me to discuss informal discussions that have taken place with other member states. The Government is committed to achieving this objective. Last spring, during the negotiations for the EU constitution, a similar process of working around the table in getting member states to agree was successfully handled by the Taoiseach. I am confident that those working in this process will have the same result. I will not go into details as to what is happening as it will not help the case because of how these discussions take place. It is wrong to believe that the Government is not committed to achieving this objective as quickly as possible. The day one decides to proceed with the argument for recognition, all 25 member states must be in agreement.

Brian O'Shea

Question:

14 Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his attention has been drawn to a recent article (details supplied) showing that more people here now speak Mandarin or Cantonese than Irish as a first language; if he will consider amending the Official Languages Act 2003 to take account of the growing number of languages other than Irish and English that are spoken on a widespread basis here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5796/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

I have no statutory role or function in the Mandarin or Cantonese languages. Article 8 of the Constitution provides that the Irish language, as the national language, is the first official language of the State. The English language is recognised as a second official language. Accordingly, these two languages are the only official languages constitutionally recognised by the State. Official languages are defined in the Official Languages Act 2003 in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution. In these circumstances, the issue of amending the Official Languages Act 2003 does not arise.

Mr. O’Shea

I recently read that on a daily basis more people in Ireland now speak one of the Chinese languages than the Irish language. According to reports, approximately 50,000 Chinese live in Ireland who use Mandarin or Cantonese as their first language. Coimisiún na Gaeltachta found that of 90,000 Irish speakers, only approximately half of this number spoke Irish on a regular basis. What has gone wrong? Large resources were spent in developing the Irish language yet this comparison emerges. Ireland, whether we like it, is becoming a multicultural society where in the future languages such as the Chinese ones will be the first language to a greater number than those using the Irish language. I am talking about people who become citizens and whose rights are identical to any other citizen in the State. I flag it on two levels. It must make us reflect on how successful the movement for the revival of the Irish language has been over the history of the State and how much our society is changing and becoming more multicultural.

Éamon Ó Cuív

The statement in the article in the newspaper is nonsense. It talks about 90,000 people in the Gaeltacht. I think there are 86,000 people. It goes on to talk about the number of Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht. As we all know, a large number of daily Irish speakers do not live in the Gaeltacht. The Irish language is the possession of the people of Ireland and not the people of the Gaeltacht. The Gaeltacht's relevance in all this is that it is the area in which the Irish language is still a community language.

If one checks the statistics, there are more daily Irish speakers than daily Cantonese or Mandarin speakers. The only figures on which we can go are the census figures, which are authoritative. When one checks them for daily Irish speakers, and even allowing for the fact children say they speak Irish daily, one finds the article is another one of those in that particular newspaper which is short on fact and quite liberal in the way it interprets things, but good luck to it. I suppose it sells newspapers.

The other issue is much broader. I know of no proposal to amend the Constitution to add other official languages. The Irish language was the indigenous language of the country going back 2,000 years and the one which survived. Norman French and English followed. English is now recognised as an official language in view of the fact a large number of people on this island speak it. I presume sometime in the future if there are sufficient numbers of speakers of other languages, the Oireachtas and the people — the only two groups which can do so — might seek to change the official languages of this State, but I do not believe it is an issue at present.

Mr. O’Dowd

I agree with Deputy O'Shea that much money has been spent on the Irish language and that not enough progress has been made since the foundation of the State. I agree with the Minister that more needs to be done and I fully support his views on preserving, improving and supporting the Irish language movement. It is also important that we interact with people who speak languages other than Irish and English, particularly at local government and local Health Service Executive levels. Does the Minister believe we should have a more proactive approach to employing interpreters locally and in our courts? We need to account for the thousands of new people moving to our country who speak languages other than Irish and English.

Éamon Ó Cuív

I notice that often the people who are most intolerant of other languages are those who are monolingual English speakers and that Irish speakers tend to be fairly easy going about it because they have faced the problem of not being able to get services through the Irish language and they are very supportive of other cultures. People coming to this country, particularly those with children going to school, tend to be very open to the idea of learning not only English but Irish as well. They often have a very open attitude towards languages. Many of them are not only bilingual but are multilingual when they arrive here.

The influx of people into this country has changed attitudes towards languages which is very welcome and which, in a peculiar way — I have been asked the question recently by a number of commentators — is very supportive of Irish because it has resulted in a much greater acceptance of difference, multiculturalism and multilingualism which was not so evident 20 or 30 years ago when I was growing up. Every time I gave my name, I was asked what it was in English as if one could not have a name in a language without an English equivalent. There is a much greater acceptance now that one's name is one's name and that one does not have to keep translating it into another language.

Written answers follow Adjournment Debate.