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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Mar 2005

Vol. 599 No. 3

Finance Bill 2005: Report Stage (Resumed).

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
In page 11, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:
1.—The Ombudsman shall include in her annual report a special report on the overpayment of tax by PAYE taxpayers, and on the take up of credits by such taxpayers, and the branch of her office dedicated to ensuring that the take up of credits is readily available to all taxpayers, and refunds made as rapidly as possible where this arises, shall be known as the Taxpayers' Advocate Office.
—(Deputy Burton).

I outlined the role the Revenue Commissioners play in ensuring as much information as possible is available to ordinary taxpayers and I recapped a number of points, some of which were made in detail on Committee Stage. The only reliable figures available on the amount of tax overpaid by PAYE taxpayers are the amounts repaid as a consequence of claims by taxpayers resulting in a review of their liabilities. It is not possible or reasonable to extrapolate from these an estimate of unclaimed overpayments by the PAYE population because claims or requests for review are, by definition, much more likely to come from those who know they have an entitlement to a relief, such as medical expenses, for which they have not claimed. There would be no basis for assuming that a similar proper proportion of all PAYE taxpayers have entitlements to repayment.

Drawing on that and from service providers and others outside Revenue would not improve Revenue's ability to measure the extent to which there are unclaimed overpayments by PAYE taxpayers. In general, Revenue cannot be aware of an overpayment in a particular case unless information vouching the overpayment is provided to it by the taxpayer. Consulting data from outside Revenue will not, of itself, stimulate taxpayers to claim what would otherwise be unclaimed entitlements.

There are cases where the number of claimants for tax relief based on expenditure incurred should be less than the total numbers incurring such costs. This would arise where potential claimants do not exceed the minimum thresholds for admissible claims, such as medical expenses, or are not able to avail of the tax reliefs due to insufficient income, for example.

In the circumstances, therefore, I cannot accept the amendments principally because there is no reason to believe either would assist, to any great extent, in identifying taxpayers who have not claimed their full entitlements.

On the day the Travers report has been published, highlighting and justifying the work of the Ombudsman in vindicating the rights of citizens in respect of nursing home charges, it is ironic that the Minster for Finance will not accept a modest amendment which proposes that the Ombudsman be given the power, authority and duty to produce a report, in the role of taxpayers' advocate, on the problem of people who overpay tax and who fail to get a prompt refund of tax overpaid.

I accept what the Minister said regarding Revenue seeking to improve the situation. However, that is not the entire point. As with the Travers report, this is also about accountability. When will there be a responsibility not merely to seek to do the minimum but to seek to do the maximum? We have a very narrow tax base of which PAYE taxpayers contribute the vast bulk of tax. This is a small measure to ensure their rights are promptly asserted by the Revenue Commissioners.

There is no Minister in charge of the Revenue Commissioners. While Government policy guides and dictates their actions, they are largely independent of the Minister for Finance. There is not even a MAC meeting at which a Minister could obtain a briefing on how matters are progressing. There is no external accountability by the Revenue Commissioners except by teasing out matters through the process of continuously asking parliamentary questions. It is a painfully slow process, particularly since the Government has all but closed down the possibility of obtaining information under the Freedom of Information Act.

I again commend the amendment to the Minister. I am surprised the Minister is not prepared to break from the former Minister's style and, for once, act on behalf of the compliant PAYE taxpayer.

It is evident the Minister does not intend to accept Deputy Burton's amendment or mine when I move it later. On Committee Stage he suggested that he would examine the mechanism by which taxpayers are informed of their entitlements, tax credits and so on. Perhaps he would ask the Revenue Commissioners to examine this area with a view to enabling people to easily understand their entitlements and assess their potential liability and be thus more likely to review the amount of tax they are paying and hence seek the refunds we are talking about. Will the Minister reaffirm his commitment to ask some section of Revenue to do that? It would be a step in the right direction, given that he is not prepared to accept these amendments.

The Revenue Commissioners, who have been in attendance here on Committee Stage and on Report Stage, will be able to report on the level of debate this issue has generated. I am sure they will continue, as they have done proactively up to now, to seek in whatever way they can and at every opportunity to bring to taxpayers' attention the relevant information, recognising that it is the primary responsibility of taxpayers in the first instance. The Revenue Commissioners are not responsible for ensuring that every taxpayer's liability is calculated as it should be. Obviously they want it to be that way and they require taxpayers to do that.

In today's newspapers there are further major advertisements by the Revenue Commissioners referring to information at taxpayers' fingertips, suggesting texting as a new way to contact Revenue, indicating the information leaflets that are available on tax reliefs on the payment of third level tuition fees, tax credit details, claims for medical expenses. They are seeking, through this sort of marketing, to encourage and ensure to the greatest extent that taxpayers recognise they can contact Revenue and that the Revenue Commissioners are amenable, open and anxious to assist in every way they can to ensure that those who are anxious to comply with their obligations have every assistance and expertise that is obtainable from the Revenue to help them do that. That is in their interests, taxpayers' interests and our interests.

To the extent that a continuing review takes place to see what other ideas might be to hand to help them do that, the Revenue have indicated by their proactive work so far that they are confident of the culture they are promoting and seeking to inculcate as part of our tax culture and tax system. Regarding the Deputy's earlier assertions on amendment No. 58, I assure her there is no dilution and no change. It strengthens the provision, and the usual conspiracy theory is untrue.

I am glad the Minister has at last opened his mouth on the issue because his silence was very telling. Only time will tell when we have had an opportunity to analyse it. According to the Revenue Commissioners' figures there were overpayments of tax by PAYE taxpayers of €306 million in 2003, €267 million in 2002 and €193 million in 2001. It is estimated that approximately €170 million is still outstanding. In terms of the billions of euro in taxpayers' money with which the Minister has become used to dealing and that must be used for repayments of charges and so on, €300 million might seem trivial, but it is important to the people who have overpaid tax. I cannot see why the Minister cannot accept the notion of accountability by the Revenue by their efforts in this area being the subject of a regular report by the Ombudsman. Since the Government closed down on freedom of information it has been difficult to get any information about what happens in this Government. That was a significant loss of function by the Ombudsman. There is, therefore, plenty of scope for the Ombudsman's office to do an important public duty regarding accountability.

The Minister is very confident that every taxpayer is completely proficient in using the various mechanisms of the Revenue's public information system and that every taxpayer is fully on top of the process of claiming his or her due entitlements. As the Minister has such long experience as a Deputy, it surprises me that that should be his experience. Anybody who has had the honour of serving as a Deputy knows only too well how confused people are and how afraid they are, oftenunnecessarily. If they had another office, such as a taxpayers' advocate, that they could use to assert their rights, there would be an improvement in accountability and, in particular, a better deal for taxpayers who are currently overpaying tax to the tune of €300 million or more every year.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 46; Níl, 60.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Boyle, Dan.
  • Breen, Pat.
  • Burton, Joan.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Connolly, Paudge.
  • Costello, Joe.
  • Cowley, Jerry.
  • Crawford, Seymour.
  • Crowe, Seán.
  • Cuffe, Ciarán.
  • Deasy, John.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Harkin, Marian.
  • Higgins, Joe.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kehoe, Paul.
  • Lynch, Kathleen.
  • McCormack, Padraic.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McGrath, Finian.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • McManus, Liz.
  • Mitchell, Olivia.
  • Morgan, Arthur.
  • Murphy, Gerard.
  • Naughten, Denis.
  • Neville, Dan.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
  • O’Keeffe, Jim.
  • O’Shea, Brian.
  • O’Sullivan, Jan.
  • Pattison, Seamus.
  • Perry, John.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Ring, Michael.
  • Ryan, Eamon.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Sargent, Trevor.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Shortall, Róisín.
  • Stanton, David.
  • Upton, Mary.

Níl

  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Ahern, Noel.
  • Andrews, Barry.
  • Ardagh, Seán.
  • Brady, Martin.
  • Browne, John.
  • Callanan, Joe.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • Carty, John.
  • Cassidy, Donie.
  • Collins, Michael.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cregan, John.
  • Cullen, Martin.
  • Curran, John.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • Dempsey, Tony.
  • Devins, Jimmy.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Finneran, Michael.
  • Fleming, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
  • Glennon, Jim.
  • Grealish, Noel.
  • Haughey, Seán.
  • Healy-Rae, Jackie.
  • Hoctor, Máire.
  • Keaveney, Cecilia.
  • Kelleher, Billy.
  • Kelly, Peter.
  • Kirk, Seamus.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • McDowell, Michael.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • McGuinness, John.
  • Moloney, John.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Mulcahy, Michael.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Ó Cuív, Éamon.
  • O’Connor, Charlie.
  • O’Donnell, Liz.
  • O’Flynn, Noel.
  • O’Keeffe, Batt.
  • O’Malley, Fiona.
  • O’Malley, Tim.
  • Parlon, Tom.
  • Power, Peter.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Sexton, Mae.
  • Smith, Brendan.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilkinson, Ollie.
  • Woods, Michael.
  • Wright, G. V.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Ryan and Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher.
Amendment declared lost.

Amendment No. 2 is out of order.

Amendment No. 2 not moved.

Amendment No. 3 arises out of Committee Stage. Amendment No. 10 is related and the two amendments may be taken together by agreement.

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 11, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:

1.—The tax bands, exemption limits and tax credits relating to income tax set out in the Finance Act 2004 are hereby increased by such rate as would maintain the real value of those bands, limits and credits in terms of changes in the cost of living since 2003.

The purpose of this amendment is to restore to taxpayers the stealth taxes exacted on them in a highly secretive fashion by the former Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy, in the budgets of 2003 and 2004. His failure to offer compensation for the increase in prices and his freezing of the tax bands and credits resulted in perhaps the single greatest stealth tax in the history of the State. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, will argue that he made some attempt in this year's budget to compensate for increases in the course of 2004. However, taxpayers were ripped off to an incredible extent by the former Minister in his last two budgets, for 2003 and 2004.

In regard to tax credits, we must move towards a system in which the taxpayer is compensated for changes in the value of money. The failure of the former Minister to do so in two successive years resulted in a massive additional windfall in tax revenues collected by the State, much of which was not well spent. We recall the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, blowing €60 million of it on the electronic voting system, and the substantial sum doled out to the former Minister for Finance's favourite object in Punchestown. All this was paid for by taxpayers, particularly PAYE workers whose wage packets were dipped into by Mr. McCreevy at an ever-increasing rate.

This year, as in the last two years, the majority of PAYE workers will pay tax at the top rate. A single person earning slightly more than the average industrial wage, approximately €31,000, will pay tax on overtime or other additional payments at a rate of 42%. We are all familiar with the credo of the Government in regard to low taxes. The Government believes in low tax rates of 20% for capital gains tax, low rates of 20% for inheritance tax and effectively no tax for a number of millionaires who choose to invest in the plethora of tax avoidance schemes which were created consciously by the former Minister for Finance.

However, a single person earning €31,000 per annum does not get the benefit of any of this. If such taxpayers receive a wage increase as part of a national wage agreement, do overtime or get bonuses, they are likely to find that incremental income taxed at the rate of 42%. When one includes social contributions, the average single taxpayer earning more than €31,000 is subject to a total take of approximately 50%. That is not a low marginal rate. Moreover, those on this level of taxation, unlike their counterparts in many European social democracies where those who pay that level of tax enjoy superior levels of entitlement, particularly to health and other social services, are likely to have relatively few entitlements if they exceed a certain income level.

The Minister is aware that the income limit for parents seeking a third level grant for their children, except perhaps for those in the farming business, is so low that most PAYE workers, including those who have retired early and whose partners have a part-time job, do not qualify. Similarly, the income limits for medical cards are very low. Admittedly, the Minister introduced in the budget a new form of yellow pack medical card which provides an entitlement to free GP visits. Again, however, the Minister should check the income limit for this provision against the average industrial wage. He should check it against the circumstances of a family where one partner is working full-time, the other works 20 hours a week and they have a child suffering from asthma. That family does not get a fair deal, but pays a considerable amount of income tax on the nail. This cuts to the heart of the type of tax system that Fianna Fáil and the PDs has created. Taxpayers in the PAYE net pay a considerable amount of income tax but they have a relatively restricted entitlement to services, particularly in the health area. Therefore, if they earn anywhere in the region of the average industry wage or upwards, they also pay high levels of health insurance coverage. Their position can be contrasted to that of the golden circle that surrounds the Government which invests in property-based tax breaks. When the Revenue Commissioners carried out a survey two years ago they found that 400 of the top earners between them availed of €78 million in tax breaks, the bulk of them arising from property-based tax breaks. As well as intensive advertising of a low marginal rate for corporation tax which Deputy Quinn of the Labour Party introduced when he was Minister for Finance——

He did not.

Yes, he did. The Minister should check the facts.

I know the facts.

We also need low rates of capital gains, capital acquisitions, inheritance and other taxes. If the Minister checks the facts, he will find that rate was agreed during Ireland's Presidency——

What was the corporation tax rate in 1996?

If he checks the record, he will find that low rate was agreed and signed off during Ireland's Presidency.

I know my facts.

The Minister likes to have history only according to Fianna Fáil. He has sold the message of low marginal rates of tax, but the bulk of PAYE taxpayers pay high marginal rates of tax.

The rate of corporation tax was 38% in 1996.

The Minister's officials will tell him that low rate was signed off by Deputy Quinn when he was Minister for Finance during Ireland's Presidency of the European Union in 1996. I am sure the Minister's officials can probably provide him with a note of those proceedings and agreements.

I will give the Deputy the facts on that tomorrow. That is another bit of her propaganda.

At that stage there was a zero manufacturing tax rate for most companies involved in manufacturing and the rate was reduced to a joint common rate as a consequence of EU changes.

The purpose of this amendment is to introduce some fairness and equity for the ordinary man and women who work day in day out, live in the commuter belt around Dublin, pay one mortgage, pay the equivalent of another mortgage if they have one or two children in child care and who were fleeced by then Minister, Deputy McCreevy in 2003 and 2004. The Minister has chosen in all the Fianna Fáil budgets to defend the very well off. There was small change in that respect on his taking office. He was put there to signal a change. If he wanted to do that, he would introduce some equity into the system for PAYE taxpayers compared to the tax breaks he showers on the people who crowd the Fianna Fáil tent at the Galway Races every year.

If the Minister wants to go into the history of corporation tax, he will know that there was a zero manufacturing rate for a period and under EU rules we had to bring that into one rate, and that was signed off by Deputy Quinn during Ireland's Presidency when the Fianna Fáil, Labour and Democratic Left coalition was in power. That is the position in case the Minister is reaching for papers to check it.

It was Fine Gael, Labour and Democratic Left that were in Government, not Fianna Fáil, Labour and Democratic Left.

That was a Freudian slip by Deputy Burton.

I apologise, I thought I said Fine Gael.

She meant the rainbow coalition. I am sure the record will be amended accordingly.

I hope so.

The thinking behind the amendment proposed by Deputy Burton is that many rich people on huge incomes are paying a very low rate of tax. It emerged that there were ten millionaires who were paying no tax. This gave rise to anger among the ordinary PAYE taxpayers who feel they are being crucified by the level of tax they have to pay. They go on to the top rate of tax at a low income —€29,400 this year — and on every euro they earn above that they must pay tax at the 42% rate and on top of that their PRSI contribution. They feel aggrieved that people with huge incomes ranging from €500,000 to €1 million a year should not pay any tax. The amendment proposes a minimum rate of tax which people should be required to pay.

The Minister is examining the various tax shelters and tax breaks available and will report to us on what exactly they are in the next few months. There is a reasonable case to be made for having a base rate of tax which everybody should be required to pay. If a person has an income of €1 million per annum and because of various tax breaks, write-offs so on, the person has a nil liability for tax, what is the position regarding that person's children qualifying for higher education grants? Will that person receive a certificate to the effect that because he or she has a nil tax rating his or her income is deemed to be at a rate whereby the person's children would qualify for higher education grants? If that were the case, what is the Minister's comment on it? Furthermore, if that were the case, how can he compare that person's circumstances to those of a taxi driver in Mullingar, Tara or Tullamore who works long hours to make a living and who leases the taxi rather than purchasing it, given that the amount of the lease is taken out of his financial returns and added in for income purposes to assess him for qualification for higher education grants for his children? Would it not be a terrible scandal if those high rollers, who have a nil liability for tax, qualified for higher education grants for their children, while the ordinary working person who is working long hours to earn an income would have such a lease amount added in for income purposes?

I am sure the Minister is aware of the irony that there are different ways of assessing people's income in different Departments. In the Department of Finance and the Revenue Commissioners, if I was a taxi man and submitted my returns, for tax purposes I could deduct the cost of leasing my car as a legitimate expense in compiling my net income. However, if I produced the same returns and submitted them into the local authority to process them for grant purposes for a higher education grant, the local authority on the instructions of the Department of Education and Science would advise that it does not agree with what the Department of Finance has advised. It would advise that amount is not really my income and that I must add the money I pay for the lease of the vehicle. It is unreasonable that people should be treated in that way. There must be a uniform approach across all Departments in dealing with people's income. Perhaps the Minister, who is new to his Department, will examine this matter with a view to getting his Cabinet colleagues to agree to a uniform approach.

Amendment No. 2 proposes that everybody should pay a base rate of tax. In other words, one should pay a certain percentage of one's income as tax, regardless of how well-off one is. It will not be easy to introduce such a rate. With all due respect to Deputy Burton, it is not possible to include a measure of this nature in a Finance Bill just like that. The amendment proposes that the Minister should prepare a report on how such a system can best be introduced. In fairness, there is a case to be made for this approach. It is a scandal that somebody who earns €1 million per annum does not pay tax.

Amendments Nos. 3 and 10 deal specifically with the possibility of index-linking tax bands, exemption limits and tax credits. I will discuss the amendments before considering some of the other issues that have been raised during the debate. Amendment No. 3 proposes to correct the imbalance that has arisen from recent budgets. I approve more of amendment No. 10, which goes further by seeking to include the principle of index-linking in all future budgets. I was disappointed that the Minister did not accept this principle on Committee Stage. He would do well to examine how the principle exists satisfactorily in the budgetary regimes of other countries. Individual taxpayers should know, as a matter of fairness, that the value of the money they give to the State in a given year will not change much as a result of outside factors, such as inflation.

The Minister will probably repeat the figures he cited on Second and Committee Stages to suggest that the amount of money workers have in their pockets is greater than it was in 1997.

It is a killer argument.

It is not really.

The Deputy does not like it when I use it.

When the Minister makes that argument, he forgets to index-link the 1997 money. The figure of €11,000, which he regularly quotes in the House, is nothing like €11,000 in 1997 figures.

I invite the Deputy to cite the figure he thinks is correct. He can deduct a certain amount from it.

When we are making deductions——

Is it 3%?

——not only should we index-link the value of the money in inflationary terms, but we should also consider the additional moneys people are paying in other types of taxation.

Deputy Bruton said that the relevant deduction is €2,000 per household. I do not accept that figure, but even if I allow Deputy Boyle to deduct a further €1,000, the relevant figure will be €8,000.

We should engage in a proper exercise.

I invite the Deputy to try to whittle away the remaining €8,000.

Allow Deputy Boyle to conclude without interruption.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his defence.

I have intervened for the purposes of the discussion.

We need to engage in a more honest exercise to determine the actual figure.

Hear, hear.

I do not doubt that there has been an increase, but it is clear when one takes into account the two factors I have mentioned that it has not been anything like €11,000.

I will give the figure in a moment.

We will not need to have this argument in the future if the Minister accepts the principle of the amendments before the House. Index-linking should be accepted as a matter of course. It should be a policy priority when the Minister is compiling next year's budget and any subsequent budgets he might have the joy of bringing to the House. It should not be possible to play around with figures to argue that additional taxation is being paid to the Exchequer solely because of inflationary factors. The Minister should accept this principle to be fair to taxpayers. If he is not prepared to accept it now, I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that he will give serious consideration to it when future budgets and finance Bills are brought before the House.

I do not favour the introduction of a minimum tax rate as a means of addressing the problem of the legitimate evasion of tax by people on high incomes. While such a tax rate would ensure that people could not have a 0% liability, it would also mean that most taxpayers who have the income to do so would aim for the new minimum rate at every possible opportunity. The introduction of maximum tax relief, on individual reliefs and as a total of all tax reliefs, would be a better option. The Minister has decided to modify some tax reliefs in this Bill, in advance of the report on such reliefs he will receive later this year. It is a pity he has not adopted the principle I have mentioned.

We need to try to stop widespread tax avoidance. Rules need to be put in place to make it clear to people that if they invest a certain amount of money in certain areas, the benefit they will receive will be strictly limited. They will not be able to avoid the entire tax liability that, as citizens of this country, they should contribute to the Exchequer. This is 2005 — we should not allow people on high incomes to avoid paying any tax in 2006. Having listened to the Minister on Second and Committee Stages, I do not expect him to change his mind. However, I ask him to put down a marker to indicate that he will be favourably disposed to accepting this principle when we address this issue again. We should not have to discuss this matter during debates on future finance Bills.

I support amendment No. 3, in the name of Deputy Burton, and amendment No. 10, in the name of Deputy Paul McGrath.

What happened to amendment No. 2?

It was ruled out of order.

There is a credible argument for the premise that the adjustment of band limits and credits should be index-linked. The inflationary effect on the take-home pay of ordinary families and workers was not adequately taken into account in the past when budgetary changes were made in times of high inflation. I appreciate that inflation rates are low at present, but there is a need to protect the interests of workers in times of high inflation. Critical aspects of taxation, such as tax bands, exemption limits and tax credits, which are mentioned in amendment No. 3, should provide a basic level of protection.

Index-linking is critically important because it allows for a real evaluation of the changes, effects and impacts of the Minister's proposals. There is a huge fudge at present because they are not index-linked. There needs to be an assessment of the real value, if there is value, or inadequacy of the proposals. They may be inadequate if the proposed changes do not keep pace with the rate of inflation, which has been the case in the past. There is a need for protection. This sane proposition merits support and I hope the Minister will respond more favourably to it than he did on Committee Stage.

The Minister announced in his Budget Statement that he would initiate a review of tax incentives, reliefs and exemptions, particularly property-based tax breaks. Would it not be appropriate at this stage to commence a comprehensive review of the entire tax code? Several amendments have made the case for such a review. If the Minister does not agree with the basic premise of amendments Nos. 3 and 10, he might agree nonetheless that such a review would offer an opportunity to conduct a proper evaluation of the impact of the tax code in all cases. A comprehensive review is absolutely essential.

ICTU, for example, made a very serious charge against our tax system in its report of last October. The report states the system is fundamentally unjust, biased against those on low and middle incomes and does not raise enough tax overall to pay for modern public services. I regard the proposition on indexing as a key and important element in an overall review, to which I hope the Minister will commit in the course of this Bill's passage through this House. It is imperative that he does not park his interest in respect of the heretofore unknown social and economic effects and benefits that might accrue to the economy from the property-based tax reliefs. The ministerial review is not enough although it will certainly help us to come to an informed opinion as to their value.

I understand that neither the Department of Finance nor the Office of the Revenue Commissioners is able to tell us exactly the cost the reliefs in question represent to the Exchequer. It is a major failing on the part of the system to make provision for particular tax breaks without their even having been costed in terms of their real financial impact or effect in terms of social and economic measurements.

If it is the Minister's intent to oppose these amendments, I hope he will use Report Stage of this Bill to indicate his intention to set in train a full and comprehensive review that will take on board the very salient arguments the Opposition Deputies have presented this afternoon and on Committee Stage regarding index linking. The latter represents an important measure and improvement, most especially in the interest of the least well off and the least remunerated in our society.

Amendments Nos. 3 and 10 essentially propose indexation. It would appear that Deputy Burton's amendment aims to increase the tax bands, exemption limits and tax credits by the projected increase in the consumer price index for 2005 over 2003, that is, by an estimated4.75%. It seems that Deputy Paul McGrath's amendment proposes that certain tax credits should be index-linked to inflation automatically each year before and in addition to any further personal tax changes that might be made in the annual budget.

The estimated full-year cost of the measure proposed by Deputy Burton is €460 million. On Deputy Paul McGrath's amendment, if we take the figure of 2.5%, representing the growth in the consumer price index for September 2004 over September 2003, we will note that the full-year cost of indexing the personal tax credits referred to in his amendment would be approximately €75 million in a full year and approximately €54 million in 2005.

As I indicated on Committee Stage, the Government could not accept an approach that seeks to impose indexation across a range of personal credits or across credits, bands and exemption limits as it could curtail the scope to target available resources at those areas where the greatest priority for attention has been identified. It is a prerogative of Government to focus on these areas. In budget 2005, this was achieved through the removal from the tax net of those earning the national minimum wage.

On Deputy Paul McGrath's amendment specifically, the Government could not accept an approach involving a kind of mandatory ear-marked tax expenditure that could limit the flexibility of any Government, including this one, in determining budgetary priorities, having regard to economic realities in any given year. I do not believe any Minister for Finance would wish to be so constrained.

On Deputy Burton's amendment, the actual percentage increases provided for in the budget's personal tax package were considerably more than indexation would have provided for in many instances. For example, the employee tax credit increased by 22% and the health levy threshold was increased by more than 12% for those on gross incomes of less than €400 per week. The age exemption limits were increased by 6.5%. The incapacitated child tax credit was doubled in value, the blind person's tax credit was increased by one quarter and the widowed person's tax credit was increased by one third.

Available resources in budget 2005 were employed primarily with the lower-paid and the elderly in mind. Accordingly, the basic personal credit and the employee credit, that is, the PAYE credit, were increased to fully exempt the current minimum wage from taxation. The age exemption limits for those aged 65 and over increased for the fourth year in a row. To the extent that money was available for other measures, it was used to widen the standard rate band, thereby exempting certain income earners from paying tax at the top rate.

Rather than adopting a mechanical approach involving index linking, as suggested, it is better to adopt a far more flexible approach characterised by its focus on the less well-off. One could use whatever model one liked and be open to making whatever decisions one wanted to make, but one should note that the approach we took had the necessary focus. While one would always like to do more, one works within certain budgetary parameters. Were we to accept Deputy Burton's proposal, some €460 million would be deducted from the tax package straight away and one would not be able to focus, by way of providing extra reliefs, on the lower-paid to improve their circumstances.

All taxpayers have benefited over the past eight budgets and there have been significant reductions in average tax rates right across the board. For example, the most recent data available from the OECD show that in 2003, for a single person on the average production wage, Ireland had the lowest tax wedge in the European Union and one of the lowest among members of the OECD. For the average production worker who is married with two children with a carer in the home, Ireland now has the lowest tax wedge of all members of the OECD. The OECD data show that the tax wedge for such workers has fallen more sharply in Ireland than in any other OECD country, reflecting the progress made in this area.

The approach in budget 2005 is fully in line with the commitment in the agreed programme for Government to deliver further real improvements to pensioners and people on low incomes and to achieve, over the next five years, a position in which all those on the national minimum wage can be removed from the tax net. As I stated on Committee Stage, the Government is committed to sustaining growth, strengthening and maintaining the competitive position of the economy and maintaining full employment. Responsible and targeted fiscal policies are central to the achievement of these aims. The proposal outlined by the Deputies would be somewhat inconsistent with that approach and therefore I cannot accept the amendments.

On Members' comments on previous budgets, my predecessor was not able to do what people would have liked because of an international economic downturn. He has been criticised for it, yet Ireland emerged from that downturn better than anywhere else. In the 2001 budget, there was a very large increase, to €28,000, in the standard rate band for a single person.

Of course tax reliefs provide benefits to those who avail of them. This is why so many avail of mortgage interest relief, for example. That so many in our society want to own their own homes has led to the provision of this relief. The vast majority of the reliefs are directed towards ordinary people. They include housing, medical and medical insurance reliefs, for example, which we associate with normal tax relief systems and provisions. Some people paid no tax under a Labour Minister for Finance — there is a survey to that effect. This is not a result of new policies introduced by my predecessor, as was suggested. This has been a function of the tax system for some time. I made it clear in my first budget speech that those using this group of reliefs should realise that the concept of unlimited or unrestricted reliefs is no longer viable or acceptable to the tax-paying public in the present economic circumstances. I want to ensure that everyone contributes appropriately to the State.

I am not complacent about that and I want to review it comprehensively. People might take the view that I should consider this or that, and I want to take a holistic view. I have made the point, which others say they acknowledge but sometimes omit from their arguments, that when people avail of tax reliefs it provides for those who have a higher disposable income than others, in many instances. One must find the balance between the benefit such reliefs provide to the individual taxpayer and the benefit to the wider community of the increased economic activity provided by those incentivised reliefs. No one disputes that there are many instances of economic activity in certain parts of the country which would not have that rate of development without those incentives.

It is timely, given the present rate of economic and social development, that we should review all that and see where we can change, apart from property or area-based reliefs. This review must consider that more people are at work than ever before, we have more buoyant revenues, the cost of providing services increases year on year, apart from further service development, we have a major infrastructural modernisation programme and a large public capital programme.

I was at a long ECOFIN meeting this week at which the Stability and Growth Pact was reviewed. Some of the countries represented are in a far tighter financial position than we are. One Minister talked about his country's capital programme growing to 2.25% of GDP. Ours was 4.7% last year and we hope to get it to 5%, which is double the EU average. We remain in one of the best positions regarding the rules of the Stability and Growth Pact.

That is a digression. Even against that positive background we cannot provide everything from public funds. There will always be a role for private capital, and we must ensure we direct that capital to the areas of activity from which we will derive a communal benefit. No one in the House has ever opposed tax reliefs in principle because to do so would put oneself off-side with the majority who avail of these reliefs. Ordinary workers and taxpayers avail of relief on mortgage interest, VHI contributions and so on.

We need an informed and balanced debate. The purpose of the review is to ensure greater equity in the system and to explain the benefits derived from reliefs. It may be good political rhetoric and feed the sense of controversy to say the Government protects its friends. References to the golden circle and that sort of nonsense may be eye-catching and generate a few lines in the newspapers, but I do not know who these people are. I am a public representative who, like every other Member, wants to ensure we reward risk and that all our people get jobs at home commensurate with their abilities, that we can redress our infrastructural deficit, deal with these issues and provide more money for public services.

Deputy Burton suggested we are committed to low taxes as if that is a bad thing. I am in favour of low tax for the simple reason that it brings in more money for the State. I am a pragmatist. The more people at work, the higher the contribution to the State. It was suggested that it was bad to cut capital gains tax to 20%. Deputy Burton should look at the figures: in 1997 it yielded €158 million and last year it was in the region of €1,500 million. If the Deputy is committed to developing public services, as we all are, to develop our health service, roads system and local authority and public housing, why is she so excited when capital gains tax goes up by a factor of ten? Will she say she does not agree and that it should be up to 50% or 70%, to give the impression that if it was brought that high one would have three times more than the €1,500 million? We all know that would not be the case. Let us stop fooling ourselves with this nonsense and deal with the issues.

The Opposition has a point on the penalisation of workers. I do not claim to be the winner on every front, but it is on a sticky wicket on this issue. The best way to measure the impact of the tax and PRSI systems over years is to calculate deductions as a percentage of a constant real income. That is an income which has just kept pace with inflation. One arrives at this by taking what a person earned in 1995, adding inflation to see what that person earns now and seeing what percentage of his or her income was paid on tax and PRSI then and now. That is a good way to indicate whether the burden has become lighter or heavier.

For example, if a single person, taxed under the PAYE system and on the higher rate of PRSI, earning £30,000 in 1995-96, which is equivalent to €38,092, received pay rises in line with inflation, he or she would earn approximately €50,193 in this tax year. The deductions as a percentage of income would have adjusted over time as a result of the budget changes. In 1995, on that salary, the person paid, under PAYE and the higher rate of PRSI, 42.12% in tax before this Administration came into office. In 2005 the same person, on the equivalent salary, increased in line with inflation only, would earn €50,193 and pay 28.49% on PAYE and the higher rate of PRSI. That is a fact.

A person earning £100,000 in 1995 would have paid 47.8% and now pays 39.45% on the equivalent earnings. If a person earned £12,000 in 1995, which is equivalent to €15,237, he or she paid 25.82% in PAYE and higher rate of PRSI. Allowing for inflation, that person would earn €20,077 today, and pay €8.49% on a low wage. Quite rightly, that person pays a low tax but the same person paid a quarter of his or her income ten years ago. Someone earning £20,000 in 1995-96 paid 37.43% in tax. In today's terms that person would earn €33,462 and the percentage of PAYE and higher rate PRSI would be 19.37%.

These examples are for people on less than average incomes, less than the minimum wage, average incomes and above. People will feel confident that there is a genuine attempt to bring equity to the tax system, even though they may argue whether it is sufficiently equitable. The progression is consistent with an equitable sharing of the tax burden. The fact that there are 640,000 more people in the tax system is one of the reasons this is the case. This involves promoting an enterprise system that rewards risk.

We must be careful to maintain a balance. By examining how things operate in isolation from how they interact in the wider economic system, despite our genuine belief to the contrary, we must not end up in a situation where we slow the rate of economic activity which, in turn, will deprive us of the number of people active in the labour force who are generating wealth and making a contribution to the tax system. That is always a balancing act, not a scientific certainty. In the short time Deputy Burton has been finance spokesperson, she has held different views from me on what the correct model should be. I do not mind discussing the various models, but let us not subscribe to the idea that some of us have each taxpayer's interest at heart while others are only interested in 400 or 2,000 income tax earners. I also live in the community and I am proud to represent people of all income levels.

We need to inform ourselves as to the nature of the model, how it is working and how it might be improved. I am not saying that what the Deputy said is wrong. From the point of view of the budgetary parameters within which the Government must work and discharge its responsibility, these are the explanations I am providing. Under any objective analysis, they signify real improvements in terms of lightening the burden on ordinary workers.

Looking at the 2004 Estimates, the top 2% of people account for 28% of taxes paid, the top 4% account for 42%, the top 8% account for 55% and the top 13% account for 66%. In other words, almost 80% of tax is accounted for by the top 22% of people. The Deputy asked about the impact on student grants and so on. One of the problems in this regard is the decision made by the Labour Party in government when, in an attempt to hold the middle class vote it got in the 1992 election, it abolished fees regardless of income. I do not know what the social progression of this was. Once a decision is taken, it is very difficult to reverse it.

The Minister took part in the decision.

If I did, I plead guilty. If the former Minister, Niamh Breathnach, was the Minister, perhaps I took part in the decision. Even if I did not agree with the decision, it is fair to say that I was collectively responsible for it. While there may have been some political motive for the decision, it was not socially progressive in terms of what I have done. My decision is socially progressive. It will restore enterprise, reward risk, change the nature of the poverty trap and so on. Whatever people say about my predecessor — some very unfair things have been said; I suppose they will always be said about him — he brought about that sort of change, and if people do not like aspects of it, that is their business. One cannot expect people to be unanimously in favour of decisions. We would have a very boring country if everyone was in favour of everything.

Genuine improvements have taken place. There are more people at work and there is more economic activity. We now have an opportunity to examine these aspects, see where the balance lies and perhaps identify other areas of activity where tax relief schemes might play a role based on the priorities we identify in the community. That has been and will continue to be my approach. It is as transparent and comprehensive as I can make it. It is not correct to say that the bulk of taxpayers will pay tax at the top rate. In the wake of the move to tax credits, it is more correct to talk about income earners than taxpayers. Following budget 2005, 33.2% of earners will pay tax at the higher rate compared with 35.9% if there were no changes in the budget. We would like to do more, which will be a major challenge.

Indexation would guarantee that.

No, it would not guarantee that. If I accepted Deputy Burton's amendment, it would take 460,000 out of the tax bracket right across the board at all levels of income. One has a choice, and I will stand over my choices which I believe met with a fair degree of approval. I was very gratified with the level of approval they received. We may argue about them here today and people may vote for and against them, but I am explaining the thinking behind what I am doing.

It would be interesting to extend the statistical exercise, with which the Minister's officials supplied him, to include the incidence of indirect taxation in the period of statistical analysis to which he referred. He said that he attends EU ECOFIN meetings. I am sure his officials are aware that when one takes the more complete picture, when one includes the impact of indirect taxation on lower and average income earners, because this country's VAT rates are in the higher bracket, work carried out by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions indicates that the incidence of taxation borne by families on average incomes is much higher.

The Minister acknowledged indirectly in his contribution the second point I will make. The Government has had a policy of replacing taxation by charges wherever possible. This means that the family about whom he spoke could now expect to pay in many counties €500 or more a year for refuse charges. If they need a hospital bed, they will pay significantly more than they paid in 1997. If they take out VHI or other forms of private health insurance, they will pay many multiples of what they paid in 1997. An Bord Pleanála recently increased the fee for observations in regard to planning from €20 to €50. These are the types of increases the Government imposes on ordinary families throughout the country on a regular basis.

In regard to high income earners, the Minister will be aware that many of these units of taxation, which are referred to as high income earners, are couples. Unfortunately, the statistical information is not desegregated to take account of each earner as opposed to the unit as a couple. According to the Minister's statistics, the couple beloved of his colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, a garda married to a nurse, is regarded as high income earners because their income in Revenue's statistics are bundled together as one unit.

Taking into account taxation, VAT and the huge range of extra charges they pay at every point, they have been robbed blind by the Government. The Government has sold it well, particularly when they are compared to those who can convert their income. The Minister acknowledged in an amendment that it was possible under his predecessor for people to convert earned income into capital gains and hence to go from the marginal 42% tax rate to the much lower rate of 20%. The purpose of the Labour Party amendment is to seek equity for that section of the population that we represent.

The Minister said in his response to these amendments that it is a question of the issues. Is the real issue not that his predecessor froze the level of personal tax credit and PAYE allowance and, as a result, pushed people with their normal increases who were near €28,000 in earnings into the top rate of tax? They pay the surplus at 42% and, hence, there has been an increase in the number paying tax at the top rate. If that had been index linked, with wage increases running slightly ahead of inflation, they would not pay tax at the top rate.

The Minister has increased the 20% threshold by €1,400. That is welcome and keeps pace with inflation for this year, but for two or three years it did not happen. The write-off for the taxpayer should at least keep pace with inflation in terms of allowances and tax credits. It should not be the case that for any increase people get in their wages or the overtime they do they pay tax at the top rate. Those affected are at the margins of living reasonably well. If someone earning €28,000 can get some overtime and is charged 42%, it lessens the incentive to do that overtime. If he was, however, below the threshold and indexation was in place, it would keep him within those limits and make it more attractive.

The Minister says that in the long term, with the low taxation he is talking about, there will be greater incentive for people to earn more and give the Exchequer more. We should move towards a system of indexation where people know from year to year that their credits will be increased.

The Government's tax cuts between 1997 and 2002 saw only 5% of budget tax cut benefits going to the bottom 20% of earners. That is a fact. We are living with the legacy of the failure on the part of the Minister's predecessor to address properly the needs of the low paid and the least well-off in our society. All that the Minister can hope to do with what he has presented in his first budget is commence a process of catch up. Despite Mr. McCreevy's continual rejection of the charge, he deepened the chasm between the haves and the have nots. While the Minister refers to improved taxation figures, the reality for ordinary people is that stealth taxes — I know the Minister is not fond of that term — impact on their living conditions.

What are we looking at? We are looking at ever-spiralling refuse charges. Some of these are not directly under the Minister's charge but they are a product of Government decisions over these years. Refuse charges continue to increase at an inordinate rate, causing huge problems for many people and for society as a whole in terms of illegal waste disposal, which I deplore.

There are measures that come under the control of the Minister and his associates, such as the threshold for the drugs payment scheme has increased twice in 18 months from €70 to €85. The Minister may think that is not much, but that €15 increase makes a critical difference for people in terms of access to medication. There are increased overnight in-hospital charges and accident and emergency visitation fees. These all impact on the standard of living and spending power of ordinary people and those affected most are the least well-off. There is now paid parking in almost every town, something that did not exist in the greater part of rural Ireland some years ago.

The issue is not only what the Minister has done but what he has not done in terms of failure to address the spiralling cost of housing. He and his colleagues oppose grappling with that matter, but it has an enormous effect on ordinary families.

While inflation is relatively low, measures can be taken to control it better, and make no mistake, it has a direct impact. These amendments seek to factor that into all the different areas of taxation assessment.

There were excise and other increases in recent years. I acknowledge the Minister did not increase excise in his first budget and I congratulate him on that. I hope he maintains that stance. The increases that were introduced have made a huge difference and have eroded, like it or not, and I do not like it, the gains the Minister is so proud to laud.

They have not eroded the gains. That is precisely the point. Clearly, when the model is changed and personal tax rates and tax on labour are reduced so that work and risk are promoted, other things change. There is nothing for nothing.

The Deputy mentioned local authority charges. Many local authorities, some of which do not have a Fianna Fáil majority, are introducing pay by weight schemes. Increased local government funds have been provided.

I introduced the drugs payment scheme and I am very proud of it because previously people had to pay the entire amount, wait three months and then send in the bill. Now families pay on the first €85 or whatever and if it is €500 they do not have to wait for three months for the health board to go through a circular administrative system to get their money back. The proof of the pudding from a Department of Finance point of view is that hospital drugs are escalating very significantly. The cost of the general medical services board is escalating. Thankfully, despite marginal changes and accident and emergency charges, four out of five presenting do not require accident and emergency service, sometimes because they have primary care in their community at certain times of the week. There is a purpose for some of these things.

On the question of high parking costs, its purpose is to provide more money for amenities. How many times have I heard councillors during the past 20 years crying for more autonomy and more rights to raise funds to enable them provide money for local amenities? These provisions are now becoming law.

I am not arguing against it, I was asking only that the Minister factor it in because it is all having an effect.

To suggest that factoring it in wipes away the benefit is not winning the argument——

It is an effective point. Things have changed.

I am making the point that if one takes the €12,000 example in 1995-96, which is now €20,000, the reduction in the average rate for PAYE and PRSI is down from 25.8% to 17.3%. To bring it down to brass tacks, it is additional disposable income. There is an additional €3,500 in that person's pocket today if he or she was earning €12,000 then and got an inflationary increase in wages in the past ten years. That additional disposable income will pay for plenty of charges. No matter how many times one parks one's car in Monaghan town or how many bins one puts out every week to make up the €3,500, it would be a full time job to calculate the cost.

Even in the budgets where there have been no increases in the bands, PAYE credit was increased and reduced the tax paid by PAYE workers. It is also the case that there were no major changes in the VAT rate in recent years.

The VAT rate was increased in the budget before last. What is the Minister talking about? Does he not remember that?

The Minister without interruption, please. The Deputy will have the right of reply.

I listened in silence to the Deputy.

The Deputy will have the right of reply.

I will do the best I can but I am a Member only 21 years. We have a zero rate on food and a reduced rate applies to many services. It is like everything, one cannot compare apples with oranges all the time, although sometimes we all do so to exaggerate the point. The Deputy will find nobody in Monaghan on that wage who has to pay that rate to the local authority. Even an authority with seven Sinn Féin councillors could not make it happen.

They are doing an excellent job, as the Minister is well aware.

The indexation issue would be a strait-jacket for any Minister or Government and would take from their democratic responsibility to make choices for the good of the community, such as targeting those on the minimum wage in the last budget. It is about choices. I do not agree with the idea that the use of the CPI is almost like a formula across the board, following which one can do what one likes. My attitude is that one should make one's choices and defend them and not wait for unanimity, otherwise none of us would ever make a decision. I made my choices. I targeted where I targeted. Others, such as the Deputies opposite, can table amendments, and we can have an argument about it. I am not saying I am more correct than the Deputy but I have done my budget. This is the Finance Bill and I am not changing it now.

The average industrial wage has been raised many times. If the bands are not increased it moves up the marginal rates over time. Most people understand this, in the same way as a farmer understands that one has a good year and a bad year. If things are going well one gets on better whereas if things are going badly one cannot expect as much and one will not get on as well. We should stop telling the people that they can be assured from hereon that there will be incremental increased improvement in their life until the day they die and that there will be a tax regime that will keep them at this level. We are at this level now as a result of good strategy, a broad consistent macro-economic policy, by all governments despite efforts to suggest otherwise, some doing the job better than others, perhaps, but that is always a matter of political debate.

Let us not tell the people that this is the way it is going to be regardless. There are many things happening and we need to keep ahead of the posse and not become smug or complacent. There may be a time when some Minister has to made a decision in the event of an international downturn. We are an open economy and anything can happen in the next few years. Ministers have to come into this House and make some decisions which may not be popular. We have to make such decisions if we want to do our job and defend them. We should never underestimate the people's discernment or their ability to acknowledge what has been done. If that is what one has to do this year that is what one has to do. I do not buy the argument that there has to be improvements all the way regardless of what happens. I hope there will be improvements but nobody who understands how the economy works can be that certain and suggest the framework for the foreseeable future by, for example, locking in indexation. We should not do that.

We have corporation tax.

Corporation tax is there for a purpose to bring about the inward investment that has transformed this country. That is one of the few mechanisms we had available to us. We do not have a great deal of natural resources, a large population or a large capital base although, thankfully, it is increasing. We did not have an entrepreneurial spirit or solid capital formations.

The Minister cannot have it both ways, his hands are being tied.

The Minister should conclude.

I will defend this model. The Green Party, of which the Deputy is a member, has a different model and I wish it the best of luck. The Deputy will argue in its favour. When he has 84 Members to back the party he can come into this House and implement it. In the meantime I am defending this model and the way it works. There may be criticisms of aspects of it but on any objective analysis — be it applied to workers, income tax, ensuring more people are at work and have a chance to improve their position and that those at home have greater disposable income — there is no doubt, no matter how we argue the issue, the ordinary punters believe they are in a better position than they have been for a long time. That is my honest opinion. When speaking with them they confirm that and are aware it does not happen automatically. Neither do they think it is guaranteed for the future. I have been as straight with them as I can.

What the Minister had to say was interesting. He approved of every piece of largesse by Government in recent years. The only thing he did not approve of was the notion that working class children, whose parents did not have a high income, should look a well-off person's children in the eye as they walked in the gates of Trinity College and had free access to university education. The Minister said that looking back he felt free third-level tuition access was wrong.

I did not. I said it has its costs.

Everything has a cost. It is interesting that the Minister has defended and made a cogent argument as to why the well-off should be even better off. If the Minister looks at the statistics from Patrick Clancy and others on who went to college before the introduction of free tuition fees at university level, the tax covenants that were available only to the wealthy — the Minister will remember the figures as he was part of that Government — were costing more in tax expenditure than giving free third-level under graduate tuition fees. That was the choice that was made and, if I remember correctly the Minister was a party to it. I am aware there are many politically correct people like the Minister who still consider there was something fundamentally wrong with the children of those on modest incomes having access to third level education. It was all right for farmers' children to get grants to go to college but it was different for people living and working in towns and cities throughout the country.

The Deputy should not misrepresent my constituents.

A bus driver's children could not go to college because their income was too high for a grant whereas somebody on farming income — and I say good luck to them because I think they should get it — could vary their income when their children were coming up to college age and they would get a grant. To add to that, the people who were really well-off could take out a covenant. The cost of the covenant in tax foregone was very significant at the time and almost fully if not totally funded the cost of opening up university and third level access to everybody.

If the Minister reintroduces third level fees, as he is hinting he might like to do, he will also return and introduce tax breaks. Who will the tax breaks particularly benefit? They will benefit the better-off. This argument is not about who is or is not pro-economic development; I am in favour of economic development. We are talking about spreading the fruits around. If I may say so, I would have thought the events of the past month would have made the Minister much more aware of this. It costs €800 a month for child care because both parents must work all the hours God sends in order to be able to buy what was traditionally regarded as a right — a private house. The Minister should talk to those people who get up at 6 a.m. to leave children into a crèche and who do not return home until 7 p.m.

As well as economic prosperity and growth, there is the quality of life aspect to the debate. I do not have the figures with me but on the indices in respect of quality of life in the European Union, such as access to transportation, Ireland unfortunately still ranks about 15 out of 16. I will bring the statistics with me to the House tomorrow if statistics are being traded. These are important statistics about quality of life.

I do not know if the Minister regularly pays €1.80 to cross the West Link toll bridge. The cost has risen significantly in recent years. The bridge is in my constituency. Drivers pay that money in order to take part in one of the largest parked traffic jams in Europe. The Minister can correctly say that as an economy we are delighted to have more employment, delighted that people are doing better and that incomes have risen but what he cannot deny is that the cost of living in Ireland for families is extremely high in critical aspects such as the cost of health.

I do not know the cost of a GP visit in County Offaly but in the Dublin area it would be difficult to visit a GP at a cost of under €40 and many GPs charge €45 to €50. A prescription will cost anything from €20 to €30. If a bug hits an entire family and if some of the children are slightly asthmatic, a very high proportion of that family's after-tax income will be used to pay for services that in other EU countries are paid for by taxes. If the Minister was to use the West Link toll bridge to drive home, he would pay €1.80 to sit in one of the biggest traffic jams in Europe.

I welcome that the Minister wishes to have a debate about balance. In a debate about balance, one must examine where people have definitely made gains — and I agree people have made gains — but in any notion of a fair society, which the Minister has indicated is one of his aims — one cannot have the situation where some people flaunt themselves as paying no contribution. If those people were in a traffic accident, I presume they would unfortunately end up in the same accident and emergency unit as the rest of us. As they drive their top of the range Mercedes, I think they use the same roads as the rest of us because I see them. When they pop over in their helicopter for the day, I think they use the same airport facilities that the rest of us pay for. The equity question is that we want a fair contribution from everybody and we want the Minister and the Government to acknowledge that for quite a number of families in this society, this is an expensive country. Services are difficult to access, they are awkward to get and they are very costly when they come out of after-tax income if one has a family of small children. Child care can be a crippling burden.

It sometimes seems that nobody on the Government benches is really getting this message because they are so taken with the success side of the equation. The Minister is entitled to sell the success and he sells it very well but he needs to undertake a listening exercise in respect of the side that is not going so well. As the Minister stated, politics is about making decisions; some people like the decisions and others do not. It was interesting that the Minister did not get worked up about some of the property-based tax reliefs. Both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have said to me on several occasions that they do not find it acceptable that someone on an income of more than €200,000 should make no tax contribution.

In a speech last weekend the Minister said he was going to "weed out" some of the people in the system——

I never used that phrase "weed out".

——who were paying no tax.

I never used that word "weed out".

It may have been RTE getting him wrong again. I think it was the Minister's sentiments that were being described.

I did not say it.

Fine. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste both said to me, from where the Minister is now sitting, that they do not find it acceptable. They think it is not acceptable that people on an income of more than €200,000 should pay no contribution. This does not really excite the Minister's disapproval; what excites his disapproval is the most important measure to open up access to third level education ever taken in this country. I used to work in third level education and I know quite a bit about it. Professor Clancy's recent report shows that the measure is really working in terms of Dublin city. One can look at the postal districts in the Dublin area — and this may also be true in respect of Tullamore or Birr — and one could pick the estates where almost no children progressed to third level education and the other parts of the city or town where almost anyone with any level of academic achievement proceeded to third level education. It seems to be politically correct on the part of all sorts of people——

On a point of information.

——in Irish society to say that opening up third level education to children of all backgrounds——

The Deputy is misrepresenting my position.

——is wrong.

May I state my position? Why does the Deputy not wish to hear my position?

I find it odd. I invite the Minister and his officials to look at Professor Clancy's work, which shows how access has been opened up. I refer to the CIE bus supervisor. That person's children were not able to access third level education but they are now able to do so. Like free secondary education, this has been one of the best steps forward this country has taken. I am sure the Minister will agree that the employment future lies in knowledge-based industry and development. Deciding to pull back on helping as many people as possible to access third level education is not desirable. It is interesting that the Minister has highlighted that measure out of all the range.

Will the Deputy give way? I wish to correct the record of the House. The issue arose in the context of whether the measure is progressive. My criticism is that the Labour Party provided free third level education regardless of income and it is now enjoyed by the children of millionaires and those earning €200,000 or €300,000 per annum. My point is that it was not targeted. I am in favour of everyone attending university if he or she so wishes. The Fianna Fáil Party has a good record on education which I invite any party to surpass. My point, however, is that as a result of the lack of focus in applying the measure regardless of income, fewer people than we would like receive maintenance grants because we have decided to spend the money elsewhere. Let us be intellectually honest. The Deputy made the same point in another way when she criticised the decision to give everyone aged over 70 years a medical card.

I ask the Minister to give way. He should not put words in my mouth as I have never criticised that decision.

I will not put words in the Deputy's mouth and have no problem giving way if I misrepresent her personal position. However, I have heard criticisms from the Labour Party benches to the effect that millionaires now have a medical card if aged over 70 years. Although the Deputy may not have made them, they are on record.

I made exactly the same point with regard to free fees at third level and the Deputy seeks to misrepresent my position by arguing that I do not care about ordinary working people attending college. The Deputy has also stated no one on the Government benches understands child care. When social progressives such as the Deputy were in government, their commitment to child care amounted to a pilot programme costing €1 million.

We are wandering.

I remind Deputies that this is not a Second Stage debate.

The Government is spending €1.7 billion per annum on child benefit which has increased by nine times the rate of inflation since 1997. I do not question the Deputy's commitment, credentials or convictions and she should not ascribe to me convictions which do me an injustice. In misrepresenting me she weakens her case and argument. That was not the basis on which Deputy Paul McGrath introduced his amendment.

The Minister raised qualms about the notion of free third level undergraduate fees. I do not care what issue he was replying to but it was he who raised the issue of fees.

I did so for the reasons I have given.

Amendment put and declared lost.
Amendment No. 4 not moved.

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 11, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:

"1.—The Revenue Commissioners shall include in their annual report an assessment of the extent to which overpayment of tax by PAYE taxpayers arises, drawing on data available from other bodies such as the CSO and service providers and advise the Minister in measures to minimise such overpayments.".

Amendment put and declared lost.
Amendments Nos. 6 to 9, inclusive, not moved.

I move amendment No. 10:

In page 12, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:

"3.—The Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 is amended by the insertion of a new section 468A:

‘468A.—(1) In this section—

"the consumer price index number" means the All Items Consumer Price Index Number compiled by the Central Statistics Office;

"the consumer price index number relevant to any year of assessment" means the consumer price index number at the mid-September before the commencement of that year expressed on the basis that the consumer price index at mid-September 2002 was 100.

(2) For the purpose of computing the amount of any tax credit or allowance in sections 461, 461A, 462, 462A, 463, 464, 465, 466, 466A, 467 and 468 to a person each sum referred to as a tax credit or allowance shall be adjusted by the higher of either—

(a) such sum as shall be prescribed by law, or

(b) such sum as to which it shall be adjusted by multiplying it by the figure (in this section referred to as “the multiplier”).

(3) (a) The Revenue Commissioners shall make regulations specifying the multiplier and shall make corresponding regulations in each subsequent year of assessment.

(b) The “multiplier”, in the year of assessment 2004, or any subsequent year of assessment, shall be the quotient, rounded up to 3 decimal places, obtainable by dividing the consumer price index relevant to the year of assessment by the consumer price index number relevant to the immediately preceding year of assessment.’.”.

Amendment put and declared lost.

I move amendment No. 11:

In page 12, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following:

"3.—Section 466A of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 is amended by the substitution of the following for subsection (2):

‘(2) Where in any year of assessment an individual proves that he or she is a qualifying claimant he or she shall be entitled to a tax credit (to be known as the "home carer tax credit") of a sum equal to the higher of the amount specified in section 472 of this Act.'.".

Under current arrangements, an adult who stays at home to look after family members may avail of the home carer's tax allowance which amounts to a tax credit of €770 per annum. The amendment proposes that this tax credit be substantially increased to enable one spouse in a family to stay at home and look after children. The Minister decided this year not to alter the current rate and set out his reasons on Committee Stage. The credit needs to be increased dramatically.

Home carer's tax credit is claimed by approximately 100,000 persons, which implies that 100,000 families have only one income and meet the qualifying criterion that they have a dependent child or ill family member in need of care. Already one income families suffer considerable discrimination. Let us take as an example two families with an overall income of €56,000 in 2004, one of which has one income while the other has two. The couple with one income will have paid €7,000 more in income tax than the second couple. This is unfair and penalises spouses who decide to stay at home and look after their families. Given that forcing people to work can have serious consequences for society and in the light of current child care costs, we should promote an economic option which would allow one spouse to stay at home. This is the context in which I move the amendment and hope the Minister will accept it.

I do not know if the Minister had an opportunity to celebrate International Women's Day yesterday, although I gather from his gesture that he missed the chance.

We will go out and celebrate when international men's day comes around.

We will make special arrangements next year. I understand the Minister's colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, celebrated and hope he enjoyed himself.

The Minister made several interesting comments on child care and child benefit. He referred to the equal opportunities child care programme, EOCP, which I have examined in detail, particularly as it operates in my constituency, one of the fastest growing areas in the country, and the Fingal County Council area. The Minister, some of whose officials are present, would be shocked to learn of the astonishing administrative costs associated with the EOCP. Area Development Management Limited submitted a bill of approximately €8 million just to administer the programme.

I am sure the Minister will be aware from his own constituency that most community organisations which applied for funding under the EOCP have been so mired in the red tape associated with filling in application forms that take-up is proportionally much higher among private providers than community based facilities, even though the programme is, in theory, primarily geared towards the latter.

A significant factor emerging with regard to child care is the cost differential in crèche charges for small babies and newborns, on the one hand, and older children, on the other. In the Leinster region, the area with which I am most familiar, I have noted that while many professional crèches generally charge €180 to €220 per month, significantly higher charges apply to newborns and young babies because of the understandably high level of care and number of staff required for this group.

I agree with the principle of Deputy McGrath's amendment. Families with children must be offered realistic choices. Rather than doing the commuter run, being stuck in a car for an hour and a half going to and from work, it should be made attractive for families to enable one parent to stay at home longer than the four to six months provided for. It should be an absolute part of policy that every parent of a child under one year has the opportunity to stay at home with the child. Flexibility should also be allowed between the parents as in some cases the father may wish to stay at home.

Most European states have moved in this direction. The Minister mentioned attending ECOFIN meetings. The next time he is in a European airport for such a meeting, he should look at some of the advertisements to see what our European counterparts are offering to young families to encourage them to have not just one but two or three children. He must know from civil servants with whom he has worked that in the Irish child care scenario the cost for one child is expensive but possible. However, for those families with three children, one parent is obliged to give up work or find another career.

I support the spirit of Deputy McGrath's amendment because this is a critical and important issue. Considering the lifestyles many young parents must endure, many are heroic. They have to get up early in the morning to drop their children off at a child care facility before commuting to work. As well as the responsibilities and sleepless nights that go with having children, families are supposed to be fun. Talking to voters in counties Meath and Kildare in recent weeks, I noted many were enduring, not enjoying, family life. It is beholden on every Member to address this issue.

The Minister cannot claim the answer is the equal opportunities child care programme. Can he examine and check the reviews carried out on it? Will he pity the community groups which have tried to fill in the forms and failed? As a consequence, many have not benefited from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell's largesse. Much spin accompanies the programme. While I welcome some funding as opposed to none, I have grave reservations about the quality of the programme.

The Minister spoke of the philosophical differences between his party and the Opposition parties. This is nowhere more marked than in this provision in the Finance Bill. His predecessor believes his greatest achievement was individualisation of the tax system. The reality is very different. If anything, those measures saw the introduction of a two tier society with the rewarding of greed. The message it conveyed was that the role in society of a social actor, parent, carer, volunteer, was the lesser. If one is to be properly recognised in society, one has to be a vibrant economic actor. Although this is the Minister's first budget——

It is my 20th.

——he must take this on board if he wants to leave an imprint on the type of society that will result from his economic policies. The ugly side of the Celtic tiger is the imprint left by his predecessor. It is those policies that we, on this side of the House, continue to oppose. The Minister has an opportunity to reverse and ameliorate his predecessor's effects on child care and caring in the home policies.

While I support Deputy McGrath's amendment, wider debate and policy proposals are needed in this area. It is unfortunate the Government is silent on how it intends to deal with the issue. Deputy Burton spoke of the mixed signals coming from the Government, particularly with community provision of child care. At the end of December letters from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated funding could not be guaranteed for such facilities beyond 31 August 2005. While we are talking about the lack of proper recognition within the tax system, the Government, through another Department, is reviewing whatever level of support is available. Those providing much needed facilities will now be told to fend for themselves in an uncertain future.

This is what we have encountered when canvassing in County Meath and north Kildare. While these two constituencies will get more than enough name-checks until next Friday, this issue affects communities throughout the State. In inner city communities the only alternative child care provision is through the community. However, the Government is not offering any long-term support in this regard. The balance must be struck for a tax on social welfare support and wider grant aid support. However, there is no chance of balancing both sides of this equation. It requires the very political willingness the Government lacks.

I support amendment No. 11 in Deputy McGrath's name. The largest weakness in the budget was the failure to address the issue of child care and children's needs. This went across the board in the Government's failure to reach its own targets in child benefit. Several agencies at the coalface have demonstrated these targets are essential in meeting the costs of providing for children. I expect the Minister for Finance will address this matter in his next budget. The absence of any substantive provision in the last budget was so glaring that he and his colleagues cannot fail to recognise the import of correcting it at the next opportunity.

In recent years a number of measures providing for a parent's right to take up full-time parenting have been introduced. However, no incentives have been given for parents to do so. For the first 12 months parents have the right to be absent from work commitments to enable them to provide for the needs of their children. This aspect, very much part of society in the past, has now changed.

The right of all parents to maintain or to access workplace opportunities is an absolute. However, it is not enough just to affirm the rights of parents in terms of workplace law and regulation to take up full-time parenting. We also have a responsibility to ensure measures are introduced which go some way towards compensating for the significant income loss that will arise and which offer incentive in order that people will seriously consider the option by perceiving that it is not as punitive an alternative as is often the case.

What we are looking at here is the introduction of a tax credit in regard to the home carer role. Primarily, that applies to the role of either father or mother dealing with the needs of children in the home place. It is an eminently sensible proposition. I am interested to hear more about the prescribed methodology of its application but I am also interested to hear what the Minister has to say on this proposition. I hope he will use the opportunity to indicate positively his intent to address the whole area of parenting, child care and the needs of children in our society, which have been so markedly overlooked in budget 2005.

The amendment relates to the home carers tax credit of €770, which under section 466A of the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997, is granted to married couples where one spouse works at home to care for children, the aged and incapacitated person. The amendment proposes that the amount of the home carer credit should be the same as the maximum of the employee tax credit, commonly known as the PAYE credit which, by virtue of section 3 of the Bill, would amount to €1,270. In other words, the amendment seeks to increase the value of the home carer tax credit by €500 per year. It is estimated that to increase the home carer tax credit, as proposed, would cost approximately €40.5 million in 2005 and €59.2 million in a full year.

As I indicated in my Budget Statement last December, the total cost of the income tax and levy changes I made is €682 million in a full year, which is more than double the previous year's total. The increase I made in the employee tax credit, in addition to benefiting all workers, was to ensure that all those on the minimum wage are fully outside the tax net. I have decided not to increase the home carer tax credit on this occasion. However, it is worth noting that couples who benefit from the credit will benefit in this budget from the increase in the employee tax credit and the personal tax credit which I have announced. For example, a married one income earner on PAYE with two children and a salary of €40,000 will gain €838 in total in this budget. It is made up from €350 in tax credits, €380 in band widening and €180 in child benefit. It is an issue at which we will continue to look in the future.

I am disappointed the Minister is not prepared to move any way towards increasing the home carer spouse allowance. This allowance was introduced following the introduction of individualisation by the Minister's predecessor. It resulted from a backlash among Government backbenchers who were not happy with individualisation and felt the family with the single income was being seriously discriminated against. Families with one income are still seriously discriminated against. That discrimination is greatest among those on middle incomes, namely, those earning €55,000 to €56,000 per annum. There is a substantial difference in the amount of tax paid by a single income family and a double income family. It amounts to approximately €7,000 per annum, which is a lot of money. That takes into account the home carer spouse allowance.

Increasing the home carer spouse allowance would go some way towards helping those people. The Minister has heard the arguments before that people who want to stay at home to look after their children should have that option. This Government should help to eliminate the economic difficulties preventing that from happening. I ask the Minister to review this allowance. If he is still in office at the end of the year, perhaps he might be able to give us good news in this regard in his second budget. It is not that costly in the context of the benefit it would have. The Minister estimated the cost at approximately €40 million. When one considers the cost of other things and the benefit this would have, it would be well worth while.

I have noted what the Deputies have said. To answer Deputy Boyle's point, it is not just a question of portraying it in the context of being vibrant economic and social actors. It is really a function of social change in this country, with a higher participation rate by women in the workforce. It is more in line with continental trends than was the case in the past. People are pursuing careers. The opening up of educational opportunities for all has provided us with that change. That social change is something we are trying to reflect in our code. It does not mean one thinks less of those who stay at home by choice. I am a one income married parent.

We must continue to work on how we deal with this issue. We must increase supply and we must realise the tax system itself has deficiencies in dealing with this matter in terms of discriminating against those who pay low income tax or no income tax. Those on lower incomes would not be able to avail of such a child care tax.

The equal opportunities child care programme is providing more places. Deputy Burton has some views on this matter. In my own town last week, the paper work came through in that regard. I know of other community based organisations in my area which have been successful due to their own initiative. I am not claiming any credit for it. It is an issue around which we are trying to get our heads in terms of what is the adequate policy response without causing further problems and further discriminatory effects.

As Deputy Paul McGrath said, the home carer allowance was introduced in the Finance Act 2000. There were a number of budgetary changes to assist the married one income earner in that situation, not specifically in terms of increasing this tax credit, but other changes which increased the disposable income of such families and, indeed, of other families. We continue to work on this issue to see what other initiatives, if any, might be possible to assist in the already very considerable resources afforded to this area through the mechanisms Government has decided on. They are not such as to meet the cost of child care but they are a contribution and an acknowledgement of that cost.

It would be a help if there were more child care places. More places are envisaged and there has been an increased allocation in this year's Estimates for that programme to meet demand. As people know, we have used the capital allowances system in respect of employers providing such facilities in places of employment for employees. We are responding from a standing start in 1997. There are no simple solutions. We continue to reflect.

I realise there is no simple solution. The Minister has clearly identified a problem. He has also recognised that there is social change. The question is how do we respond to it. The issues the Minister mentioned are mainly based around providing money for child care facilities. What we are talking about is giving people the opportunity of not working for one, two or three years while their children are very small and of surviving on one income. That is what is at stake.

The Minister is addressing other issues. There is a tremendous number of women at work, a huge number of two income families. We welcome this. A number of those two income families would like for a short period to have the opportunity for one of the spouses to stay at home to look after the family. This House has not given them the facility to take one to three years out of the workforce. What we are talking about is making it economically feasible for people to take time out for a relatively short period to get their children started at school and so on. The €770 home carer's tax credit does not come near enough to bridging the gap. The Minister recognises the difficulty and I think I hear him saying the right things, that he will look at it for inclusion next year. In the context of my interpretation that he will look at it for inclusion next year, I withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

We now come to amendment No. 12 in the name of Deputy Burton. Amendment No. 15 is related. Amendments Nos. 12 and 15 may be discussed together by agreement.

I move amendment No. 12:

In page 13, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following:

"4.—The Minister shall review tax relief arrangements for private nursing homes to determine their compatibility with health criteria and in particular health and welfare related criteria regarding the size and location of facilities.".

I appreciate the Minister may not have had an opportunity to get a full briefing on this issue when I raised it last week on Committee Stage. During his predecessor's time there was a move to give very generous tax breaks of up to 42% to people who made capital investments in various medical and nursing home facilities. The Tánaiste, in her role as Minister for Health and Children, seems determined to privatise as much of our health and care systems as possible. While she may be ideologically driven in her desire to do so, we need a debate on whether it is appropriate. I mention this in the context of the development of large numbers of private nursing homes with generous tax breaks of 42% provided that they continue to operate as nursing homes for a maximum period of only ten years. We do not know what will happen at the end of that period. Will they continue to provide nursing care or will they move into another area?

Regardless of any kind of joined up policy on social provision, the Minister's predecessor said on a number of occasions that he had expanded these areas of medical and social care related tax breaks on the basis of a hunch or what had been said by whoever he happened to meet in the run-up to his various budgets. He met somebody who told him about the difficulty of getting a psychological assessment for their child and that change was brought forward in one year. He met somebody else, a doctor in his constituency, who talked about tax breaks for private hospitals and that was brought forward on Report Stage two years ago. Similarly, the provision of nursing home tax breaks was made on an ad hoc basis.

I am not aware of any study that indicates what role this plays in the long-term provision of quality care for older people. I reiterate that all the evidence from Age Action Ireland and other groups which deal with older people in society is that the overwhelming preference of older people is to stay at home, either with or in the vicinity of their families, and as they become older and more dependent, they should still be able to live independently but with increasing support. If that is the model to be followed, it is certainly not the logic of the tax breaks the Minister's predecessor sponsored.

I spoke about the Hanly report which laid down various criteria regarding survival sizes — 300 to 400 beds — for hospitals and certain facilities. About one year ago that was the gospel according to the Government. When it comes to policy on tax breaks for health and social provision, there seems to be no study. I do not know whether the Department of Finance ever even sent a note to the Department of Health and Children or the Department of Social and Family Affairs on the various tax breaks being introduced.

I have raised the issue of the proliferation of nursing homes in the Leinster region which are out of town, a mile or two away from villages. While the physical finish of these homes may be very good, the opportunity for an old person who goes into one of these homes to live any kind of independent life is severely curtailed unless their family are highly supportive on a regular basis. Most of the nursing homes in rural Ireland, including in north County Dublin in the Fingal area where they are proliferating, are very remote. There are no footpaths. The nearest village is probably well over a mile away. The majority of the residents of nursing home facilities are more than 70 or 75 years of age and not up to walking a mile or a mile and a half on a road without a footpath where cars travel at very high speeds. Consequently, they have no access to their church, the pub or the post office. They have no access even to a Spar shop if they want to buy a few things for themselves.

The amendment is reasonable. The criteria should be linked to compatibility with health and welfare in terms of the size and location of the facility. When we look back to this tax break in ten years' time, we will see some nursing homes which will have made excellent provision and which will continue to do so. We will also see others, which were basically interim development strategies by developers who bought land at auction with an eye to future housing developments in areas like Fingal and the parts of Leinster near Dublin city. The old farmhouse or other buildings on such land will be converted to nursing home use resulting in extensive tax breaks. Ten years hence the developer may be far more optimistic that Fingal, Meath or Kildare county councils will allow full-scale housing development on the site and the nursing home facility will go. It will be used for some other purpose, probably housing development.

The nursing home tax break should have conditions. The Minister cannot tell me the number of nursing homes availing of this tax break or the cost of it. His predecessor has led him down the road of providing very significant tax breaks affecting elderly people, which do not emphasise independent welfare criteria for older people such as affording them as much independence as is possible for as long as is possible. Entering a nursing home should be the last resort for our older population rather than the first resort, which is the result of giving upfront tax breaks.

At budget time the Minister for Finance has some influence on departmental budgets. It is disappointing that some local authorities make no provision for sheltered supported housing for older people. Other authorities, for example Dublin City Council, are fantastic at doing so. The sheltered facilities and apartments it provides are superb and allow a high level of independence. As the Acting Chairman, Deputy Glennon, will know, Fingal County Council is decades behind Dublin City Council in this regard. If a pot of money is available to places like Blanchardstown, the Naul and Garristown most Deputies and most families would prefer to support those kinds of facilities for older people in sites in or near villages where people aged over 75 years can still go for a walk, visit the pub, go to Mass and do whatever they want to do. This is what keeps people young and alive. The staff in most nursing homes are excellent. Even if the quality of care is excellent, by placing them in an out of the way nursing home, they are nearly getting a life sentence. They will not come out again as independent individuals.

The Minister's predecessor introduced many tax breaks without any examination of the social, welfare and medical criteria, which should have accompanied them. I ask the Minister to do this from hereon. On Committee Stage the Minister gave us figures for increases in nursing home numbers. Crude increases in nursing home numbers are pointless without a good model of care. Presumably in 20 or 30 years' time, or perhaps later, 5% to 10% of those in this Chamber may, because of medical need, be dependent on having to use a nursing home facility. If the Minister wants to give tax breaks, they should be targeted at independent living in an environment where the older person can resource facilities. I gave the example of towns with a nursing home on the main street, which allows visitors ease of access. This is preferable to the proliferation of nursing homes in remote locations, driven by the tax breaks with no consideration for welfare or health criteria.

I support the amendment and will also speak to amendment No. 15. Deputy Burton has made the points about isolation very well. I recognise the picture she has painted. However, but for the new private nursing home facilities completed in recent years in my constituency, we would have a serious crisis in the provision of nursing home places in Cavan and Monaghan. That is a fact of life. This tells us that there has been serious under-investment in public nursing home provision. Many people by preference or need would opt in the first instance for the public facility, which in the case of St. Mary's in Castleblaney in my county of Monaghan is par excellence and is a wonderful facility.

I will share a point with Deputy Burton, who spoke about getting out to visit the pub. I pay tribute to a former county manager in Monaghan, who died last year in his 90s and who with great foresight many years ago introduced the very first little bar in a public nursing home facility in St. Mary's in Castleblaney. At the time he said that he was only thinking of himself and his future. While he acted very wisely and with great foresight, he never had to use the facility except as a visitor. It is a wonderful facility, which allows visitors and residents the opportunity to have a drink together and converse in a pleasant environment. I commend such facilities to other nursing homes.

I recall what Deputy Cowley said last night on another Bill making its way through the House with great haste when he referred to the community sector. The vision shown by Deputy Cowley and his community in the establishment of St. Brendan's Village in Mulranny in County Mayo is the greatest example of community nursing home care. I personally commend the Deputy for his dedication and commitment to that sector over many years. I have had the opportunity to visit St. Brendan's Village and, as anyone would be, I was greatly impressed.

Development within the community sector is largely embryonic. The public sector is critically under-funded and under-resourced. Insufficient public places are available allowing the opportunity for the development of private nursing home care particularly when one remembers that the Health Service Executive, formerly the health boards, is buying bed access in private nursing facilities to compensate for the absence of places in the public sector. This reminds me of the Tánaiste's, Deputy Harney's, great love for buying hospital procedures as opposed to providing for them within the network of acute hospital care.

The Tánaiste's preferences towards the private sector need careful watching on the part of the Minister for Finance and his colleagues. I do not believe the Minister reflects the views she has been proud to articulate when she said, for instance, she wishes to see minimal State intervention, including in health care provision. That is an incredible statement by a Minister for Health and Children. Following the view of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, that inequality is good for the economy, it must be a worrying relationship for the Minister for Finance and others whom I would credit with a much more acute awareness of social need.

These amendments are not prescriptive. They seek a commitment on the Minister's part to a review in order to determine the tax return. A careful assessment must be made of what is due to the Exchequer in terms of tax relief arrangements and reliefs in terms of public moneys. The highest standards should always apply in regard to the exercise of these reliefs. It is particularly important that they are weighed up as part of the ongoing review the Minister established following budget 2005 of the long list of capital-based reliefs covering a wide range of areas from high-rise cark park facilities and holiday homes to private nursing homes and other private clinic facilities.

Critically, private nursing home reliefs must be compatible with health and welfare criteria. This must be seen in the round in regard to our failure to properly resource public nursing home provision as a consequence of seeking to look after private interests in terms of investors. There is not a balanced approach under the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children in terms of supporting the community sector for which Deputy Cowley argued so articulately yesterday. The influence of the Progressive Democrats Party on the Government's approach, both fiscally and otherwise, means there is every reason to be greatly concerned.

I strongly urge the Minister to undertake the propositions in amendments Nos. 12 and 15. In the light of the information consequently provided, we must make an informed decision as to what then should happen.

I hope the Minister will be suitably shocked should the imminent report on tax reliefs contain the obvious conclusion that many of these reliefs were introduced without any cost-benefit analysis and that many of them have continued in the absence of such analysis. However, cost-benefit analysis alone is an empty formula for deciding many policy objectives. These amendments highlight the importance of asking questions when tax reliefs are introduced as to whether they not only constitute good usage of public money but also whether they achieve good public policy goals in the areas of health and social welfare provision.

The Government has been shown to be engaging in much double-think in that tax reliefs have caused damage in other areas of social policy. Many such reliefs have caused enormous environmental damage, for instance, but continue to be offered. The Minister must not only consider the merits of these amendments but must also consider the wider issues of how such reliefs are introduced in the future and how they are maintained in subsequent Finance Bills. There must be a new set of criteria by which these measures are judged. It is not merely a question of financial and economic concerns.

In regard to supports for nursing homes, the Minister spoke on Second and Committee Stages about the increase in the number of places. There is no doubt the additional provision has been helpful in terms of transferring long-term patients from the hospital system into nursing home settings. It is unfortunate this debate has often involved a view that elderly patients are somehow bed-sitting in respect of places in the public health system. The wider issue is about care of the elderly in general and the lack of a real policy in this regard.

There are questions to ask about the nursing home system in general. Some such facilities are excellent but there seem to be no defined criteria as to what should be the accepted norm across the service. Some are badly located and others offer poor service but such difficulties do not seem to determine whether they receive appropriate public support through tax relief or otherwise. It is ultimately a question of choices and we have had this discussion in regard to other amendments.

There must be sufficient cost-benefit analysis and joined-up government in terms of the analysis of the effect of wider public policies but alternative models should also be examined. Can consideration be given to a type of tax relief that would allow for the care of incapacitated elderly relatives within the private home? The argument might be made that families have a responsibility towards their members but if we are living the lifestyle articulated by the Minister in terms of thrusting, vibrant economic actors who are working increasingly long hours and commuting for four hours every day——

Those are the Deputy's words, not mine.

That is the implication I am picking up and has been the theme followed through by many on the Government benches. If one considers this model and the associated circumstance in which young families are being brought up at arm's length, there is an obvious need for incentives that will protect the idea of family within the setting of a family home and protect the care needs of families as far as possible within the local community.

I hope the Minister will respond to these amendments positively but also consider how better alternatives can be put in place. I accept the Minister shares government with some who have a more radical view of society in that they see it as a marketplace. However, the Minister has a role to play in recognising that the tax system can be used in an imaginative way to protect and enhance the idea of family and community and the care of all generations in as far as possible in the same place and at the same time.

We have seen a rush to establish private nursing homes throughout the country in recent years. This is fuelled by CSO statistics indicating that the figure of approximately 400,000 people over 65 years of age in 1995 is estimated to increase to 700,000 in 2020. The private sector saw an opportunity in this to provide for the needs of those elderly requiring hospital and nursing home care. From a policy perspective, unfortunately, the other side of the coin is that public beds have been decreasing in numbers over the years.

The Minister should decide whether Government policy in this regard is to continue to fund the establishment of nursing homes through tax breaks while simultaneously allowing the provision of public beds to diminish. Is the focus to be on providing private nursing home places with the help of the taxpayer, of which people can avail through the help of subvention and other means? Alternatively, will the Government continue to fund public beds in the manner established in the past?

Another query arises from this which the Minister may not be able to answer today but may do so in due course. In some parts of the country there are significant numbers of publicly funded beds sourced through private nursing homes. In my part of the country and probably in the Minister's part, which come under what was formerly the same health board area, there are virtually no publicly funded beds in private nursing homes. The positions seems to vary greatly from one part of the country to another. In County Donegal there are approximately 200 plus public funded beds in private nursing homes, yet in County Westmeath there are only two and there are none in County Longford. I do not know what the figures are for counties Offaly and Laois, but given that they come under what was formerly the same health board area, I imagine the figures are small.

If I decided to establish ten nursing homes across the country, would the Minister allow me tax breaks to provide them, or would he advise there are enough nursing homes in one area and none in another and that if I wished to avail of a tax break I should establish them in that area where they are needed? What criteria apply to such a tax break? Will the Minister allow bigger units to be established which will eventually snuff out some of the smaller units?

A good model of provision exists in Third World countries which the Minister should consider. Deputy Burton has experience of it having worked there and I have some knowledge of it. When schools were being established in Africa the rule was that a new school could not be established within three miles of an existing school. That requirement ensured a spread in the provision of schools across areas.

Will the Minister allow nursing homes to continue to mushroom? It will soon get to the stage where some will make it non-viable for others to operate. There will also be stretches of the countryside where there will be none available and in those areas it seems to be Government policy to wind down the number of public beds available. Even though the population is growing older and there is an increasing demand for beds, the State is shirking its responsibility in ensuring that a proportionate number of public beds are maintained. It is a policy issue the Minister should address and on which he should respond.

I will have some information on this later as I tabled a question to the Minister on the number of public nursing home beds currently around the country and the number that have been available for a number of years and I am sure the reply to that is in my pigeon hole. The Minister might address those issues. In particular, does he intend to allow those providing nursing homes to continue to avail of tax breaks? Is that scheme open-ended?

The review does not terminate the relief schemes. We are reviewing them this year and we will make decisions for the future. They continue to operate as heretofore until that review is completed. That is the way the system works.

It would be wrong to suggest that we have a situation which is outside a regulatory framework. There is the Health (Nursing Homes) Act 1990. Where we have a private sector in regard to the provision of health care, we have a regulatory regime in place.

The substance of amendments Nos. 12 and 15 was considered by the select committee as a result of a similar amendment tabled by Deputy Burton and we had a wide-ranging discussion on the issue. I indicated on Committee Stage that the nursing homes involved are those which come within section 2 of the Health (Nursing Homes) Act 1990 which are registered under section 4 of that Act. Section 6 of that Act also provides for the making of regulations by the Minister for Health and Children in regard to the standards of these nursing homes. In particular, the regulations provided for under section 6 of the 1990 Act govern adequate and suitable accommodation and they allow the Minister for Health and Children to, among other things, prescribe requirements as to the design, maintenance, repair, cleaning, cleanliness, ventilation, heating and lighting of nursing homes; the accommodation, including the amount of space in bedrooms and wards; the washing facilities and the sanitary conveniences provided; and the food provided for dependent persons in them. Such regulations issued in 1993 as the Nursing Homes (Care and Welfare) Regulations 1993 (Statutory Instrument No. 226 of 1993). Accordingly, there is a regulatory system already in place in regard to the registration and operation of these nursing homes and the standards they must meet. This regulatory system was in the past administered by the health boards and will in future be administered by the Health Service Executive.

It is important that we do not engage in double thinking on this issue. Deputies would acknowledge that if we did not have such an increase in nursing homes we would have a serious problem. This relates to what I said earlier. We need to be pragmatic. We will continue to invest in public nursing home provision. We have been doing that and we are required to do so because of demographic trends in terms of the need to care for the elderly going forward and to plan ahead. There will always be nursing home places in the public sector. There are also nursing home places in the private sector.

However, the number of them is decreasing.

It is not a question of decreasing the number of them. There may be some nursing homes in the private sector which could and should be criticised in terms of their location or for some other reason, but we should remember that people have lived in the public nursing home sector for years in facilities which predate any private nursing home the Deputy might mention. Some of them date from the last century and some date from the previous century, and I was in a few of them. I was in a position as a result of an increased capital allocation from my predecessor in this office to deal with some of those problems.

Were we to depend on the public nursing home sector in my county, the Deputy's county or borough, or anywhere else, we would not be able to deal with the numbers. It is as simple as that. While continuing with the commitment to invest in the public nursing home sector, the private nursing home sector is making a serious contribution to nursing home care. Nursing home care is provided on the basis of those who require it. We want people to live in the community for as long as possible.

We also have a scheme of tax relief for the construction of housing units for the aged and infirm — for those capable of more independent living. There are community sector developments in an embryonic stage and retirement villages, of which unfortunately, we have had some bad experiences in Wicklow. Sometimes if there is one bad experience of a concept, everyone tends to walk away from it when what we need is to see what lessons can be learnt to improve on the working of the concept.

There are a range of options available having regard to the level of dependency of the individual concerned. There are conditions and degrees of infirmity among elderly people that require full-time nursing home care. We all know of such needs. Families will do their very best for as long as they possibly can but it gets to a point where a home care nurse will not be able to provide the 24 hour care that is needed. The person concerned will need an institutional or a nursing home setting. In many cases because private nursing home facilities are more recently constructed, they can have better facilities than are available in some public nursing homes, although there are some excellent ones. I say that in the context of recognising the professionalism of everyone who works in these places.

As we extoll the public nursing home provision, we know in our hearts and souls that there are many facilities which historically we would like to see replaced pretty quickly. They have provided facilities for as long as they possibly could. The Deputy knows of them in his town and I know of them. The people in those facilities did the best they could for as long as they could and we need to try to replace some of those facilities. The Deputy might not see an increase in the numbers of places because we have to remove places that do not meet the standards, but we have also opened new units. I recall that in a facility in Birr food had to be brought across an open yard which probably contravened the regulations. That was the practice until a new community nursing unit was opened. In saying that I am not in any way criticising the staff who worked there. The same position applied in a facility in Mullingar. I recall being in a facility in Thurles on another occasion. I am sure there were people accommodated on the third storey of that facility whose feet had not hit the ground floor since they were admitted, not to talk of some of them making it down to a pub. This facility was in the middle of the town. The design of the facility was no longer relevant to modern care facilities. These are the realities.

There is only a certain amount of money available and we want to do right by these people. That means providing more public funds for public nursing home care. It also means in many cases replacing antiquated and unsuitable facilities despite the efforts of everyone to keep them going for as long as possible with refurbishment works and so on.

We should acknowledge in a pragmatic way the role that has been played by the private nursing home care sector. The number of nursing home beds has increased by more than 6,000, from less than 7,000 to approximately 13,000, since the end of 1997, when the system of tax relief for nursing home fees was introduced. How many beds would we have if it had not been introduced?

We should not decry the role of the independent sector. Of course we want to maintain the availability of the best possible facilities for everyone, regardless of income, etc. We understand that basic concept, but we should be pragmatic. We should continue the public investment programme, examine the role that can be played by the independent sector, consider how we can encourage more facilities such as St. Brendan's Village in Mulranny, assess the concept of retirement villages and increase the take-up of the tax relief scheme that is available to help those who do not need full-time nursing care to lead more independent lives. All such matters are positive. I appreciate that people have concerns about capital allowances, for example, but such matters are being examined at present.

One should not assume that the schemes under review were introduced just to reduce the tax burden of those on high incomes, although I am sure such people have benefitted from the schemes. The system of tax relief for nursing home fees is providing a community benefit. People will sleep tonight in beds of the highest quality in the independent and private sector. How would it reflect on this House if the beds, which were made available through the tax relief scheme, had not been provided? The private sector can provide certain things more quickly because it benefits from greater flexibility in some respects. There was no problem when the health boards contracted out beds in the private sector. If a person from Ferbane were to stay in a contracted bed in a private nursing home in Shinrone, the person's family would be as happy for him or her to be there as they would for him or her to be in Tullamore or Athlone. Families do not mind who is the proprietor or owner of the nursing home as long as a bed is made available for the person who needs it. We should be pragmatic and sensible.

I would like to be fair to all Members of the House, including my partners in Government. The Tánaiste is as anxious as everyone else to ensure that the elderly receive proper care. All Deputies have family experience of the limitations and constraints of the system. We cannot address such problems as quickly as we would like, but we can and will address them. The independent sector makes an important contribution. I do not suggest that the private sector offers a qualitatively superior service, but I am simply making the point that it offers what people want by providing beds.

I have reminded those who have claimed there is an absence of regulation that the 1990 Act applies. Those who are worried about tax relief arrangements can rest assured that they will be considered as part of the ongoing comprehensive review of capital allowances under the tax relief schemes. Deputy Burton suggested that the tax relief might work if it were focused in a slightly different area, in addition to this area. Deputy Paul McGrath pointed out that the demographic trends are against us.

We did not make provision for this tax relief scheme to dump or maroon elderly people in nursing homes in urban or rural areas. That is not the purpose of the scheme, but some people might think it is happening in some instances. The purpose of this tax relief is to ensure that sufficient nursing home placements are available in the private sector for those who need them. Regardless of whatever else one might say about the scheme, one cannot deny that it has helped us to provide an additional 6,000 places over the last eight years. We could not have expected 6,000 places to be provided under the enhanced public capital investment programme, which has funded the replacement of antiquated facilities which needed to be closed. We would not have been able to increase the number of places by means of public provision alone.

We should be pragmatic and sensible, for example by considering how we can marry the benefits of a public service ethos, which helps to provide public beds, with the efficiency and effectiveness of the private sector, which can quickly deliver beds to the standard set out in the 1990 Act. The House took a decision on the matter 15 years ago. I look forward to hearing the opinions of Deputies when the review of the system of tax relief for nursing home fees has been completed. I would like to issue an open invitation to them to do so. The desired outcome is the expansion of tax relief schemes which focus on the priorities we want to be addressed. Perhaps some of the negative comments about the role the Government has played will be modified in the context of the emerging crisis. The scheme ensures that the private sector can deliver beds quickly. The regulatory framework is in place. We are reviewing the scheme to see how we can provide a broader spectrum of care that is beyond acute hospital care, but is devoted to assisting the elderly as they pass through various degrees of infirmity.

The Minister's predecessor, Mr. McCreevy, spoke about this issue on a number of occasions. He told me he introduced the system of tax relief for nursing home fees to reduce charges, rather then to increase the supply of beds in nursing homes. I do not see any evidence of a reduction or levelling off in charges. I hope this element will be concluded following the review. Mr. McCreevy established many tax relief schemes on a wing and a prayer — he often told us he had a hunch. There is no evidence that this matter was researched, or that it formed part of a joined-up health and social welfare policy.

The many Deputies who have been members of local authorities will be aware that the budget for the adaptation of houses for older people has been absolutely inadequate. All the research shows that living at home assists people in their late 60s and early 70s — it is what they want to do. We should facilitate that by being generous in adapting homes to cater for people who are becoming less mobile as they get older.

A private health care provider received extensive coverage in a newspaper this week. I do not know whether the Minister saw the article in question. The provider intends to use the system of tax relief for nursing home fees to fund two €1 million homes, each of which will cost the State €420,000 in taxes foregone. As I said earlier, Dublin City Council could build an entire unit to provide for assisted independent living for that amount of money.

The Labour Party is calling for a review of the pros and cons of the system. I do not suggest that any single model is better than any other model, although the quality and continuity of public provision has been generally quite good, particularly in recent decades as the facilities have been improved. I have proposed amendment No. 12 because I appreciate that the terms of the review are important.

Can the Minister indicate when he expects the review process to be concluded?

It will be concluded this year.

Will it be completed by the end of the year?

It is being completed in preparation for the budget.

I will take on board what the Minister has said about the inclusion of the system of tax relief for nursing home fees in the overall review. The Minister has taken on board the concerns I expressed about the criteria which might apply for the relief entitlements. We would like the criteria to be clearly focused on health, welfare and justice. As I have said, investment needs to be balanced to support the public and community sectors. I am happy to let the matter rest until the review has been completed. I will not move amendment No. 15. I await the report mentioned by the Minister.

Debate adjourned.
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