Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 12 Apr 2005

Vol. 600 No. 1

Leaders’ Questions.

Mr. Kenny

Today Irish nurses commenced their latest campaign to highlight the disgraceful scenes at accident and emergency departments around the country. At the Mater Hospital, Cork University Hospital and Roscommon General Hospital nurses were forced on to the streets to protest during their lunch break about the continuously bad situation in accident and emergency units. Their demands are not unreasonable. Like the rest of the people, they want an accident and emergency service that meets the needs of society. They want an end to hundreds of patients on trolleys in hospital corridors throughout the length and breadth of the country. Last week there were 404 patients on trolleys in hospitals throughout the country, today there are 350 patients on trolleys. Every few months the Government gives us a whole new raft of solutions to deal with the problem.

The Tánaiste, who has been in the Department of Health and Children for six months, building on the seven and a half years of prior service by the Government, has announced another ten-point plan, which is supposed to sort out this business. Will the Taoiseach give the House any reason to believe this plan will work where no others have worked? Will he give a definite timeframe as to when this ten-point plan will be implemented? Will he tell us what has happened to the accident and emergency agreement drawn up on the last occasion when the 2002 work stoppages took place to highlight the overcrowding in hospitals which has worsened since then? When will the additional acute and non-acute beds and primary care units promised by the Government in 2001 and 2002, which will only offer the long-term solution to this crisis, be provided? There are repeated incidences of people who leave their beds or trolleys in hospital corridors to use the toilet or to go outside for a smoke only to find when they return that their bed has been taken. This is truly disgraceful. In a country rolling in money it is sad to have the nurses of Ireland out on the streets again in an effort to deal with a problem to which the Government committed itself to solving over the past eight years.

The Taoiseach

As I have stated before, for one reason or another, accident and emergency facilities are not up to scratch but it is not the situation in all hospitals. New accident and emergency departments have been opened in hospitals such as St. James's Hospital and Blanchardstown but problems still exist in a number of hospitals.

Deputy Kenny asked me to state the present position. Approximately 3,300 people a day are treated in accident and emergency departments which is 1.2 million a year. The Tánaiste's ten point plan is a dedicated funding of an additional €80 million this year. The Government is confident that this plan has already achieved results in some hospitals but not in all. For example, the special home care packages to allow people to leave hospital are to help those who require better facilities at home and cannot leave hospital until these are provided. The first of the 500 step-down places are now being provided by the private sector. This is important as it releases acute beds in general hospitals. Nursing home places for long-term stay will soon be contracted. Several hundred beds need to be outsourced and this is under negotiation. Site visits to determine the suitability of facilities will be completed at the end of this week.

The GP out of hours service is operational in most parts of the country but not on the north side of Dublin. However, 150 north side GPs have now indicated they are prepared to work an out of hours co-operative and this will have an impact. It is the case that there is no GP service after 5 p.m. and people have no alternative but to go to accident and emergency units. Progress has been made in discussions with private hospitals to provide additional access to MRI and CT scans in order to reduce waiting times. This is important and it is happening now. The Health Service Executive is putting in place a permanent system of audit inspection for cleanliness in acute hospitals and which was previously identified by Tallaght, Beaumont and St. Vincent's hospitals. The new St. Vincent's Hospital will open shortly. Tallaght, Beaumont and St. Vincent's hospitals are working to install new acute medical units and a number of other medical initiatives are being taken. These units are being funded by the €80 million funding announced by the Tánaiste. Others are already in place as I announced previously.

I acknowledge the frustration of the nursing staff in hospitals in particular. The accident and emergency consultants are now in place but some further work remains to be done because the difficulty is that accident and emergency consultants leave at 6 p.m. and the busiest time is after 6 p.m. This is an industrial relations issue that will need to be negotiated. The Tánaiste is involved in this matter. It would be very helpful to the service if the accident and emergency consultants were in place. These are some of the issues.

Mr. Kenny

The Taoiseach has not changed. He referred to the figure of 3,300 people. This is very much less than it was seven years ago. The position is that the Government is unable to deal now with a lesser number than there was seven years ago. The Department closed contracted beds 18 months ago and is now opening up contracted beds as if this was a brand new initiative. In those years the health budget has doubled but the Government is still unable to deal with this element of the crisis. Why is it that today I hear reports of businessmen ringing up radio stations offering money to buy prefab units for hospitals? People are phoning radio shows to give their views about how the problem should be sorted out. The Government is almost eight years in office and the situation is much worse than it was when it took office. The Taoiseach in his reply may refer to the ten point plan and the millions of euro.

What is the Taoiseach's personal view of how to deal with the hundreds of drunks who turn up every weekend in accident and emergency units, with nothing more wrong with them than that they are completely out of their minds with drink? They upset nurses, doctors and other patients who have rights that are being infringed. Has the Taoiseach a view as to how the drunken community in accident and emergency units at weekends should be treated and dealt with?

The Taoiseach

The numbers attending accident and emergency units have risen considerably over the past number of years.

Mr. Bruton

That is not true. The Taoiseach should quote figures.

The Taoiseach

There are reasons for this. Like me, Deputy Bruton is also a representative of the north side of Dublin. In the past there was a very good GP out of hours service. However if several hundred doctors decide to stop work at 5.30 p.m., which they are entitled to do, there is no alternative for people but to go to the accident and emergency department. It was not so in the past because a few years ago every community on the north side had a clinic. It is to be welcomed that the GPs have decided to work an out of hours service.

It is accepted that several hundred people occupying acute beds cannot go home for one reason or another and alternative beds must be found for them, which is what we are doing. It is not a question that they were always there. Step-down beds are not available. People are living longer——

Mr. Kenny

It is an admission of failure.

The Taoiseach

——and for one reason or another they cannot go home. In the past such people were able to go home but that is not the case now and step-down facilities must be used which puts much pressure on the system.

I will give my personal view in answer to Deputy Kenny's question about the drunks. The ambulance crews and those who bring such people to accident and emergency departments both at weekends and other times, have no alternative but to bring them. The difficulty is trying to provide separate facilities for them in accident and emergency units in order to protect old people and others who may never have been in an accident and emergency unit before. Some units are able to do this but most units cannot. This is particularly the case in the Mater Hospital in Dublin because the facilities are old and separation cannot be made. This creates much hardship for the staff and also for elderly patients who have never experienced such behaviour. However, these people cannot be denied treatment for many medical and legal reasons and this creates great pressure.

Mr. Rabbitte

I refer to the scandal originally revealed to the House by Deputy Joe Higgins, namely the disgraceful exploitation of a large number of workers employed by Gama Construction Ireland Limited. In the last intervention by the Taoiseach he accused Deputy Joe Higgins of not having complied with or produced the information to the investigation. We all now know that this is not true even though the report has been injuncted by the company. The facts are in the public domain. The Tánaiste, in keeping with the PD mantra, went to Turkey to recruit Gama Construction for public sector contracts in this country. Gama Construction were given public sector contracts which provided for the going rate in the building industry to be paid to their workers. The quality of work is not an issue. Far from introducing competition into the domestic market, Gama Construction was disgracefully undercutting Irish and EU employers and workers and siphoning off the greater part of the workers' wages to Finansbank in Holland.

What action is the Government prepared to take as a matter of urgency to secure for these workers in this jurisdiction their rights and entitlements under the registered agreement for the building industry? The difference between €2.20 per hour, which is what the workers are paid as the general operative rate, and the construction industry rate of €12.96 is deposited in Finansbank Holland which in turn transferred it to a finance company called Ryder Investments. The bank has control over that money. What the workers need by this weekend is a clear statement from that bank of their entitlements. Is the Taoiseach prepared to instruct the Irish ambassador to take whatever measures are necessary, in co-operation with his opposite number in Holland, to secure the minimal entitlement of these workers, that is, a statement of their rights and entitlements which they can examine over the weekend?

The Taoiseach

There are many issues to consider in respect of this matter but lest I forget I will answer the Deputy's specific question at the end of his contribution. We are looking for not only a statement but access to the records so we can ensure the workers' rights and moneys are secured. The Government will use the offices of the ambassador and others to secure the money.

Prior to the allegations made by Deputy Joe Higgins in February — two sets of allegations were made — with which I have no difficulty and we dealt with them the last day in the House, reassurances were given by Gama's auditors and legal advisers that workers were in receipt of the proper rates, and they were accepted by the CIF, SIPTU and BATU at the time. Following Deputy Higgins's complaints, I assured him in the House that I would ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, to seek the involvement of the inspectors in this matter and to draw up a report. That was the approach agreed in the House and it has been undertaken. The Minister received the inspector's report on 6 April. He informed me that he fully accepts the recommendations in the report, which need to be addressed by his Department and the Revenue Commissioners, the Garda Síochána and the other regulatory bodies, from which the Minister has sought and demanded support. The Government wishes to publish the report as soon as possible but is prevented from doing so by the High Court proceedings initiated by Gama. Our objective is to ensure all Gama workers, both Turkish and Irish, are given their full entitlements and that their terms and conditions of employment are according to the law and are fully implemented.

There are other issues to consider such as repatriation. The Minister met representatives of ICTU, SIPTU and the CIF today and intends to meet Gama delegates this week or early next week to discuss implementation of the recommendations of the inspector's report.

Mr. Rabbitte

I agree there are many issues outside the question I put to the Taoiseach, such as that these workers in the main worked 84 hours per week but the moneys deposited in Finansbank Holland cover 48-hour weeks at the standard rate. Almost as much more is owed to the workers because hours worked in excess of the 48-hour week should be payable at overtime and weekend rates. There are questions about enforcement, the deduction of taxes in this jurisdiction and so on. These issues are for another day, as is the disgraceful state of enforcement. The Tánaiste sat atop this mess for three years while preaching competition. Other building employers made representations to her about being undercut and so on but nothing happened. I am not filled with joy that she has been replaced by Deputy Martin as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment because he has a record of turning not one but two blind eyes to such difficulties.

It is helpful that the Taoiseach will have access to records and so on. However, the workers' immediate demand is simple. Will the document which Deputy Joe Higgins was able to obtain for the four workers who accompanied him to Finansbank Holland, clearly setting out their entitlements, be secured for each worker, through the good offices of the Irish ambassador if necessary?

The Taoiseach

All the issues that arise in this matter are being worked on. Departmental officials have been in touch with officials in Finansbank Holland to seek that information for each worker. This will ensure the individuals get the money to which they are entitled. We believe we can get those records.

Mr. J. Higgins

Were it not for the hard work of the Socialist Party in the Tallaght area and the opportunity afforded me by Independent Deputies to raise the position of the Gama workers, the company would not have been outed. How could such a vile machine of shocking exploitation be transferred intact from the Middle East by Gama to Irish sites and how could the company get away with this exploitation for four and a half years? It is inconceivable that prestigious projects, including two ESB power stations, could be constructed without senior personnel noticing that workers never got a single wage slip. If there is some excuse in regard to wages, the slave regime of 80 hours per week with no stop for rain and cold could not have been invisible. This is not even to raise the depraved morality of Irish professionals who continuously and at a significant price whited the sepulchre of Gama and the rottenness within that company.

This State is deeply shamed that fathers who came here to support their families, leaving spouses and young children behind, and brothers and sons who came to work for their families' welfare should be most criminally abused, exploited and duped in the course of construction of the Celtic tiger infrastructure. I invite the Taoiseach to look members of the Turkish delegation in the public gallery in the eye when he gives his response and tell them that Irish people do not condone and are ashamed of the abuse they have suffered.

Last year alone, €9 million of workers' wages was deposited secretly and duplicitously in Finansbank Holland — it may hold €30 million in workers' funds in total. When I arrived unannounced at the bank with four ex-workers, we were supplied within 20 minutes with full statements detailing the moneys deposited in each worker's account. These were the documents which had not been furnished to a single worker in the course of three years.

The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, has taken action in this matter and hopes to meet the workers tomorrow. Likewise, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, has been helpful in accessing these documents. However, will the Taoiseach guarantee through the intervention of the State that by this weekend there will be a full statement for each worker in Gama so that next week they can sign the documents to allow them access their accounts and have the money sent to their families or otherwise dispose of it as they desire?

Mr. Healy

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

I appreciate Deputy Higgins's remarks about the work of both Ministers. It is the intention to get the statement as quickly as possible. However, I do not know if we will have it by this weekend. The Minister may have more information in this regard when he meets the workers tomorrow — he will meet Gama representatives later in the week.

Deputy Higgins asked me to address the Gama workers in the gallery. It is our intention to ensure that they receive their full rights and that Gama fully satisfies the obligations it owes to them. We are in direct contact in regard to securing the papers and believe we will receive full co-operation in this regard. The estimates of the departmental inspectors indicate the moneys involved may be even greater than the figures mentioned by the Deputy, although I cannot be certain about that. We will do everything we can to ensure the rights and money are secured and that we see this issue through.

I cannot answer the Deputy's first question. When these issues were raised — as they were — assurances were made by Gama Construction, its auditors and legal advisers that workers were in receipt of proper pay rates. They were made not only to the secretariat or Government inspectorate but also to the CIF, SIPTU and BATU. Those assurances at that time were accepted but, as we found out, what was stated is not the case. The inspector's report has shown this and the facts will be put forward as soon as possible, as soon as we can deal with the legal position.

Mr. J. Higgins

"As soon as possible" is not good enough. The men in question are destitute. They got paid a maximum of €250 in cash four weeks ago and they have to be given the bus fare to come into town. That is how desperate they are. This is an incredible scandal by any stretch of the imagination. It is simple to address this and I have made a proposal to the Minister in that regard. Executives of Finansbank Holland should come to Dublin with all the information so workers can have access to it. Alternatively, each worker could sign a statement — this could be done tonight — which I or another representative of the workers could take to Holland on Friday. The bank could then give us statements for the accounts, as authorised by the workers, and we could bring these back. The workers would then have a further document to sign and would get their money within ten days of it being submitted to the bank. That is what we need. I need that assurance for these workers by this weekend.

There are other issues.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's minute has concluded.

Mr. J. Higgins

Incredibly, some contract workers with Gama Construction were not the beneficiaries of Finansbank Holland. They worked an 84-hour week for €800 per month. There is nothing provided for them. We must find the funds for those workers and, as Deputy Rabbitte stated, we must find the wages for the 84-hour weeks that were stolen from them.

Gama Construction has still not supplied a legal payslip to any worker. The company must be banged around the place by the Government to ensure that it complies immediately with trade union rates of pay and conditions and respects human and workers' rights. An end must be brought to this regime of exploitation and intimidation which has made the company a fortune, but at enormous——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should give way.

Mr. J. Higgins

——human expense to its workers.

Mr. F. McGrath

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

Silence in the Visitors Gallery, please.

The Taoiseach

I have already said there is to be a meeting tomorrow with the workers. Deputy Joe Higgins said he will be attending. It is important that we try to resolve the issues at that meeting.

Our legal view is that the accounts belong to the workers and therefore there is no way the banking authorities can withhold them. Our officials have stated that position and we hope they ensure the issues are addressed as quickly as possible. I cannot guarantee that the bank will make the accounts available. However, they are the accounts of the workers and the same criteria apply to them as to anyone else's account. If an account is one's own, how can it be withheld? That is our legal view. We do not believe the banking authorities can withhold the accounts and I do not believe they will.

On all the other matters, the labour inspectors in this area have done a very good job.

Mr. J. Higgins

I agree.

The Taoiseach

I compliment them on their very comprehensive report. It contains very good recommendations, which the Minister fully accepts. We will work on this. The Minister announced today a substantial increase in the number of staff of the inspectorate. Following this matter, we need further people to work in other areas. The Minister has announced a 50% increase in staff, which will be very helpful in this regard.

On Deputy Joe Higgins's point about the report, as soon as the High Court proceedings initiated thereon are dealt with, we can issue the full report.

Not only will the Minister meet the workers tomorrow but he will also meet Gama Construction before the weekend. On the basis of the Deputy having raised this issue and the work that has been done by the inspectorate, we should be in a position to ensure the workers' rights are fully secured.

We did not discuss the issues raised by Deputies Rabbitte and Joe Higgins today. There is obviously a large number of questions associated with all the issues we have not discussed today and these must also be considered. I accept the issue at hand concerns trying to get the workers' money and what they badly need as quickly as possible. All the other issues are addressed in the report and the Minister is fully involved in dealing with them.