Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:1 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the constitutional referenda he plans for 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3693/05]
Ceisteanna — Questions.
Constitutional Referenda.
Pat Rabbitte
Question:2 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if the Government has plans for the holding of constitutional referenda during 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4633/05]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:3 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the progress with regard to the implementation of the recommendations of the Oireachtas All-Party Committee on the Constitution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4634/05]
Enda Kenny
Question:4 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he intends holding a constitutional referendum in 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4636/05]
Trevor Sargent
Question:5 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the constitutional referendums the Government intends to hold in 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5703/05]
Joe Higgins
Question:6 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he plans to hold constitutional referenda during 2005. [6516/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.
There are no specific plans at present to hold any referenda during 2005. The treaty to establish a constitution for Europe was signed at a ceremony in Rome on 29 October 2004. Member states of the EU must have completed their ratification processes by 1 November 2006. As the Deputies will be aware, I have indicated my intention to hold a referendum on the matter.
The Government has acted on most of the key recommendations which have emanated from the All-Party Committee on the Constitution. In all, this and the previous Government have brought forward ten referenda. The Government will avail of appropriate opportunities to take forward further recommendations of the all-party committee. The complexities involved in holding a referendum require that careful consideration be given to the frequency with which referenda can realistically be held and the significance of the issues in question.
Fáiltím roimh an Taoiseach tar éis an sos. I welcome the Taoiseach back by giving him an assurance. If the electorate votes in favour of the proposed EU constitution in a referendum and, as the Taoiseach as indicated perhaps it may not be this year, I assure him that although my arguments will not have won I will not call for a second referendum. Will the Taoiseach reciprocate that assurance? Will he assure the House that in the event of the electorate rejecting the EU constitution in referendum that he will not again present the arguments in a second referendum? That would be a fair exchange at the outset of this term and I hope the Taoiseach will reciprocate the assurance I have given him.
If the referendum on the EU Constitution is not to be held in 2005 when is it proposed to hold it? Is it possible that the Taoiseach will hold off so it can be held in tandem with an early general election in 2006? We are all interested to hear what he has to say on that.
Will the Taoiseach ensure there is full access to information on the text of the EU constitution? I understand we are talking about 564 pages of text but I do not want that to sound prohibitive. Will the Taoiseach outline the steps he proposes to take to ensure full and fair access to all the relevant information in the document? Has he noted the steps the Spanish Government has taken in the lead up to its referendum? What measures does he and the Government propose to take? Will he give an assurance to the House and the electorate that a fair and balanced executive summary will be available, that it will not be the peddling of one line of argument but that all the pros and cons will be outlined in a fair and equitable way?
The website of the Department of Foreign Affairs says there is a publicly accessible fund for promoting information about the EU constitution. Will the Taoiseach assure the House the fund will be available to all sides in the argument and not to promote only one view on this important debate that has yet to get under way?
As I stated there is no Government decision on the matter yet but the referendum has to take place before 1 November 2006. Preparations are already under way. Work on the legislation is under way. A Bill will come before the House sooner rather than later. The Referendum Commission will then put forward the balanced arguments as per the procedures. An explanatory document on the EU constitution has already been circulated. Work on a White Paper is well advanced. The EU constitution is available either from the Department of Foreign Affairs or the European Commission on demand. It is already on a number of websites. The Government is actively engaged in ensuring people understand the contents and significance of the constitution. I note what the Deputy said in the context of the referendum being defeated. Naturally I want to see it passed. There is no other plan. Ultimately, it has to be passed in all countries. Last year the European Council laid down procedures in regard to the issues that have to be dealt with close to 1 November 2006. The Government will do all it can, as will the website of the Department of Foreign Affairs, to ensure all the information is available. Nobody has any interest other than to explain the information and the details of what is a significant document for the people to understand.
Will the Taoiseach assure the House——
Arising from the question will the Taoiseach confirm that it is desirable to have the Referendum Commission established as soon as possible to address the issues raised by Deputy Ó Caoláin and others that there should be full, objective information available to as many citizens as wish to participate in obtaining that information? Will he agree that following that desirable objective it is necessary for the legislation to be initiated sooner rather than later in this House? Given that it is a constitutional referendum Bill it is required to be moved in this House rather than the other House. If that Bill was moved between now and June it would enable the commission to be established for the preparation of information and for factual objective documentation to be prepared in a format that maximises the transfer of information and minimises the delivery of confusion which happened in the past with some referenda.
I am aware that a referenda will be held on 29 May in France and in the Netherlands in June. Notwithstanding the prospects for those referenda, will the Taoiseach agree we should bring forward the legislation sooner rather than later for deliberation by this House and that the Referendum Commission should be established without delay? It is a matter for the Government to decide the appropriate time for a referendum to be held to ratify the European Union Constitution which is a good thing and which brings together the existing five referenda and five treaties which we have ratified.
I agree with all the points made by the Deputy. The sooner the House deals with the legislation the better and, if possible, I would like to complete it. The establishment of the commission is crucial and that depends on the legislation. The information can then be dealt with in the manner outlined by the Deputy, with which I agree. A decision on the date for the referendum can then be decided.
An explanatory leaflet on the European constitution is available in public offices and places. Commissioner Wallström made it clear during a recent visit a few weeks ago that the European Union would make the text of the European constitution available on demand through its offices. I accept that not many people will wish to read the entire text of the constitution but they may wish to read the White Paper and explanatory memoranda and consider the objective case made. In particular they should study the importance of the charter on fundamental rights because that will ultimately confer rights on the citizens which they have not been given under similar treaties. Other than that, everything else is similar to the position in the treaties already ratified.
Is the Taoiseach aware that a recent Eurobarometer research indicated — I do not know whether we can believe this — that 45% of Irish people had never heard of the existence of the EU constitution, never mind be aware of its content? If there is any relevance or truth in that report, it is obviously very serious. I ask the Taoiseach to outline the steps the Government intends to take on this matter.
Is the Taoiseach concerned that, in his Government's consideration of the timing of the referendum, there will obviously be a very strong Eurosceptic lobby from elements of the UK media which would be contrary to the general perception here of the importance of the European Union and the constitution? What is the Taoiseach's view on that matter? Will the Taoiseach take this into account in the Government's consideration of the timing of the referendum?
The All-Party Committee on the Constitution discussed the matter of Northern Ireland representation in the Oireachtas. What agreement was reached on this by the Government last year? Before the talks broke down, was an agreed proposition put to the Northern Ireland parties in respect of such representation? If so, did it involve representation and speaking rights in this Chamber or at committee meetings outside the Chamber? If such a development is part of a package of Dáil reform, there seems to have been little discussion about it. Will the Taoiseach outline what elements of a proposal were put to the Northern Ireland parties in respect of representation in the Dáil and Seanad and at committees?
The periodical Eurobarometer polls indicate a high level of support in Ireland for the European constitution. However, it is clear that a job must be done to ensure all citizens are informed. We have already published an explanatory guide to the constitution and will publish a White Paper. The Referendum Commission, which will be established shortly, will be given the resources to ensure that accurate and factual information is made available.
I do not wish to comment on figures, some of which are contradictory and depend on the manner in which questions are put. However, there is strong support for the constitution among those who express an interest. The 480-page constitution is a bulky document and the costs involved in producing a copy for every voter may not be necessary. It is available for those who wish to acquire it and is posted on the website. As on previous occasions, the Government will bring forward a White Paper and resources will be provided to the Referendum Commission. After that it is for people to make the objective case for the constitution. There is a strong benefit for this country in supporting it and I will make that case in every way I can.
Referenda on the constitution are taking place in many EU states and each will have its own debate in this regard. Those who espouse a Eurosceptic view have targeted this country on previous occasions in recent years through media vehicles and otherwise. At least on this occasion such persons will be able to vote on the matter in their own country. We will not interfere in the debate in other states and we hope Eurosceptics will allow the Irish people to make their own decisions.
The discussion on Northern Ireland representation in the Oireachtas has been ongoing for some years. The proposals we brought forward last December emanated from the discussions that took place as part of the search for a comprehensive agreement. This was in a spirit consistent with the constitutional principles underlying the agreement and the conclusions of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution. I said at that time I would consult with party leaders with a view to establishing a mechanism whereby MPs elected in Northern Ireland constituencies could make an input into the deliberations of the Dáil with regard to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. I made it clear that any proposals that might be agreed by the Oireachtas would not involve the granting of any rights or privileges.
Regarding Seanad reform, I said I would support the holding of a referendum before a general election to increase membership to allow Northern representation. Such representation has been taking place for many years on an ad hoc basis. The appointment of such Senators would be done in consultation with party leaders in Northern Ireland and in such a way as to represent, where possible, a cross-section of public opinion. They were the two proposals. One was made about the Dáil and the other about the Seanad.
I also said that, in the context of a comprehensive agreement, I would ask the Leader of the Seanad to discuss with the parties taking the necessary procedural steps to facilitate allowing MEPs elected here and in Northern Ireland to speak in the Seanad on periodic debates on EU matters. I cannot say at this stage when we might get around to advancing any of these proposals because they were all based on the comprehensive agreement.
I have a number of questions, most of which could be answered with a "Yes" or "No". Given the Progressive Democrats' declaration that electronic voting was expensive, undemocratic and unworkable, is it now the view of the Government that electronic voting will not be used in any constitutional referenda? Can we look forward to a referendum without the complication or controversy of electronic voting?
Is the Taoiseach prepared to accept that the EU constitution cannot be accepted if the French reject it? As he stated, all countries need to ratify it. Is that the de facto position? It is certainly indicated in polls but we await the real poll.
Although the Taoiseach said the White Paper is well advanced, will he state the month, if not the day, when it will be produced? As Deputy Kenny said, there is a need for information. Will the Taoiseach listen to the Referendum Commission on this occasion? In the past it has been very dissatisfied over its being established so late in the day. Will the commission be established at such a time as to afford us the best opportunity to impress the reality of the constitution on the public mind?
Is it envisaged that another referendum or election will take place on the day set for the referendum on the EU constitution? Has the Taoiseach considered the legal arguments that the Irish Constitution may need to be amended to allow the EU battle groups, for example, to operate? Article 15.6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann states clearly that it is for the Oireachtas alone to raise or maintain a military or armed force. If other countries are involved in raising an armed force that is to train in Ireland, for example, a constitutional issue will have to be addressed. Has this been reflected upon and, if so, has there been any outcome? Will there be a referendum on the compliance of the battle groups with the Constitution?
The question on the Referendum Commission being able to commence its work will be addressed when the referendum Bill is brought before the House. It is intended to introduce it as soon as possible. This is in everyone's interest and will allow us to proceed with the debate and associated issues. It is the obligation of each member state to pass and ratify the EU constitution. Regardless of what other countries do, we have an obligation to deal with the matter ourselves. It is not for us to be watching what other countries are doing. Obviously we should take an interest but we have an obligation to try to ratify the constitution before 1 November 2006. This obligation was imposed on us when we agreed to the constitution. Our task is to ratify it and not to comment on what other countries are involved in.
It is obvious that the sooner we deal with matters in this House, the longer the Referendum Commission will have to deal with the issue. I agree with the Deputy's remark on the timeframe. We have already said we will provide the resources then people can see the facts. The Minister for Defence said that the issue of the battle groups is being considered to see whether it requires legislation or raises any constitutional issues. He will clarify that when the examination is finished.
When the Government decides on the date it will consider whether there are other issues to deal with. It is no use speculating but while at the time other issues may arise I do not know of any.
We are speculating. The Taoiseach is answering.
I do not want to speculate on what decision we might make in the future. People ask me to put through some more of the issues with which the constitutional review group has dealt, on the basis that we cannot have costly referenda every month. Perhaps it makes sense to put them together but there is no particular proposal.
Then we will speculate on Deputy Sargent's position on the constitution.
Has the Government discussed the question of discrimination against women in the home? The Irish Human Rights Commission called for a referendum on the deletion of Article 41.2 of the Constitution. The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution recommended the deletion of the article and its replacement with a different form of wording to the effect that the State would recognise that family life gives society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and that the State endeavour to support persons caring for others within the home.
Has the Government considered the implications of that and has it contacted the Irish Human Rights Commission? Does the Government intend to hold a referendum on this other proposal, if accepted, on the same date as the referendum on the EU constitution?
What is the position on a referendum on the controversy surrounding the price of building land? Will there be such a referendum or has the Government considered that?
The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution is carrying out a study of the family and children issue and any referendum will arise out of its report when completed. That will cover any other issues the committee has examined already in that area.
The committee said we do not require a constitutional amendment on the building land issue. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is bringing forward a collective package based on the proposal of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution and the PricewaterhouseCoopers and NESC reports. The Minister will bring forward proposals in the coming weeks.
Did the Taoiseach answer the question about what will happen if the indications in France are borne out on the day of the referendum?
He ignores questions.
Will we proceed in any event? How many reports has the All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution issued and how many parts of these have been implemented?
In regard to France, the Netherlands and several other countries holding referenda we have an obligation to pass the European constitution here. In November 2006 the European Council will examine the position. If 90% of countries ratify the constitution by then it will decide on how to proceed. The outcome is not influenced by what happens in any one country. We have an obligation to fulfil and the European Council will make its judgment in November 2006. I would like all countries to pass it, particularly France, which is an important member of the European Union but that does not influence our work.
The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution has produced nine reports dealing with various issues, many of which have been implemented. We have a good record on the recommendations. Most of the significant proposals have been acted upon, for example, issues regarding the death penalty, judicial oversight — although the Dáil did not pass that — abortion and local government recognition. Many of the other recommendations did not require constitutional amendments but we dealt with the important matter of the scrutiny of EU business. Many other matters are under consideration in Departments. When we get an opportunity, we try to include them in the reports. The All-Party Committee on the Constitution is currently working on issues relating to children and the family.
I would like to pursue with the Taoiseach the question of the price of building land. Today Davy Stockbrokers predicted another boom year, which at least is different from the usual economists' reports which, whenever there is a threat to the price of building land, state the prices of houses will tail off next year and that increases will be in line with inflation. We have been hearing this for approximately seven years but it has not happened. Given the Taoiseach has discovered what we on this side of the House told him, namely, that a constitutional amendment was never necessary, and that he has been assured of that by the All-Party Committee on the Constitution, what action, if any, does he intend to take on the question of building land?
Whatever about outside economists' reports on building land, over the last number of years we have proved the capacity in the country to build a record number of houses. The rate of price increase significantly reduced as we dealt with the issues of supply and demand, which is significant.
The All-Party Committee on the Constitution report did not find that a constitutional amendment is necessary to allow for a reform of the existing system of compulsory land purchase. However, it suggested that the wording of the Constitution in this area could be improved. That also sounds like an economist's report. There has been the NESC report, PricewaterhouseCoopers report and the All-Party Committee on the Constitution report. The Minister is bringing forward proposals on what further steps are necessary in this area, which I hope will happen in the next few weeks.
My hearing must be getting worse because I did not hear the Taoiseach's answer to Deputy Ó Caoláin's question on whether he will hold a second referendum in the event of the first one yielding a no vote. Perhaps he can clarify that matter.
The Deputy should hang his head in shame.
Deputy Morgan without interruption, please.
The French might do the job anyway. Has the Taoiseach plans to hold a referendum this year or next year on the issue of a right to housing? Will he hold such a referendum in order to ensure such a fundamental right is available to the people of this State?
We have a responsibility to hold a referendum in this country and to try to have it passed, which is what we are endeavouring to do. I will not speculate on anything else.
The Taoiseach is keeping his options open.
There is no other plan. The European constitution includes fundamental rights for citizens. It specifies what is already included in the treaties that people have passed democratically. I do not understand how people can be fundamentally opposed to what has already been passed by way of democratic referendum. There is no change involved in the constitution.
There are changes.
The Taoiseach without interruption.
The people have already voted on these issues. The only aspect which is new is the fundamental rights issue. This gives people the right to protect themselves against either governments or institutions where they believe their rights are being withheld. That is the only change involved in the constitution.
The Taoiseach is hoping——
If the Deputy is against fundamental rights for people, that is fair enough. He is entitled to be opposed to human rights and other fundamental rights for people.
Is that the information that will be supplied?
I am just giving the factual position of what is in the constitution.
(Interruptions).
I asked about people's right to housing.
The Government's concern is building sufficient houses. For the first time, we are close to meeting the demand for housing.
There are enough reports to build a house.
The majority of Irish people believe this Government has abandoned the policy of neutrality and that it only exists in name. Will the Taoiseach bring the issue of Irish neutrality before the public in a referendum? Will the Government propose any changes to sections 1 to 3 of Article 29 of the 1937 Constitution or to the so-called triple lock?
We are not going to war.
The Seville declaration was built into the second Nice treaty. Protections with regard to this issue were clearly put forward to the Irish people. They are absolutely clear. The entire European Council, and subsequently the Irish people, agreed to them. This is the position on which people will be asked to vote again. There is no danger to Irish neutrality in any of this. We will continue to engage in the Petersberg Tasks with regard to peacekeeping and other issues as we have successfully done over the past 40 years.
I wish to return to the issue of the price of building land. The Taoiseach described the problem and told us about the various reports that have been produced. He also told us about the all-party committee. The Taoiseach's analysis is much closer to my own than one might think from reading the newspapers. However, there is a difference when it comes to taking action. What does the Government propose to do to address the price of building land after all these reports and all party committees?
As I stated earlier, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, will shortly bring forward a detailed paper on the Government's next set of initiatives. We brought forward many initiatives over recent years, which is why the supply of housing in this country has increased from a stagnant 20,000 to 25,000 homes to the current figure of 75,000. From the examination of these reports over the past year or so, there are a number of other useful initiatives, including affordable housing, and these will shortly be brought forward.
We are going outside the scope of the questions. Deputy Sargent has been waiting and we are running out of time.
I do not mind.
I have two questions and I did not intrude in any way.
I appreciate that, but the Deputy has asked four or five supplementary questions.
The purpose of asking questions is to get answers.
The Deputy must stay within the confines of the six questions before the House.
Can the Taoiseach name one of the initiatives that will be in the Minister's paper?
That does not arise out of these questions.
Of course it does.
These questions specifically relate to the Constitution. Questions relating to other matters should be raised with another Minister in a different manner. Deputy Sargent has been patiently waiting for the past 15 minutes.
I am very happy to do so.
This question relates to the Oireachtas All-Party Committee on the Constitution. It is a critical question regarding the price of land. Will the Taoiseach tell the House one measure that the Government will carry out? It is a simple question.
I have already stated that arising from the reports we will bring forward another set of proposals. They must go through Government, so I will not announce them here. I can tell the House of the measures we have taken to date.
I know about all of that.
I am not going to announce a Government decision before we have considered it.
The Government is fantastic. Can the Taoiseach tell me of one measure?
The Deputy wants to be in Government but he cannot.
Deputy Rabbitte wants to be ahead of a Government decision.
The Taoiseach has spent four years talking about the issue, but he cannot tell me of one Government measure.
Deputy Rabbitte should allow Deputy Sargent to ask a question.
The Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Callely, announced a €16 billion programme recently without the Minister knowing of it.
I am seeking clarity on the range of answers given by the Taoiseach, particularly with regard to the European treaty. I took it to be the case, as stated by the Taoiseach, that every member state would need to approve the treaty for it to be fully accepted by the European Union. He mentioned that if 90% approval could be garnered the next stage could be planned. I would like some clarity on that because it seems that if the Irish, the French or the people of any other member state were on their own in rejecting the treaty that would not make a whit of difference; ratification of the treaty would proceed based on the 90% approval rate the Taoiseach mentioned. Will he clarify what he means by saying that a meeting would take place to plan the next stage if there was 90% approval of the treaty? Is 100% no longer the requirement for it to be fully acceptable?
I thought the Deputy knew what was agreed at the time of consideration of the constitution. It was agreed that every country must ratify the constitution.
That is what I thought was agreed.
If, on 1 November 2006, 90% of member states have ratified the treaty, the European Council would discuss the position. There is no commitment as to what it would do but it would discuss the position.
It would have a chat about it.
It would then have to decide what to do. It was left open to see what would happen on that date; there will be a discussion on it. I assume that if only 50% of the member states have ratified it by that stage there would not be much point in having a discussion on it. That is why a figure was inserted — there was no reason other than that.
If the Deputy's party could conclude its discussions on it that would help.
There is democracy on this side of the House.
Is the Deputy in favour of the constitution?
What is the Taoiseach's view of the appropriateness of members of the European Commission involving themselves in a debate on either side in the event of a referendum being called? Our Commissioner, Charlie McCreevy, a former Minister, has already signalled his intention to do so in regard to a referendum on the European constitution. Is it not the case that unelected highly paid EU civil servants should not be directly involved in organising and directing public opinion——
He was elected by the Parliament.
——on matters of such import at the heart of the EU?
Some 30 groups participated in the convention on the European constitution, one of which was the Commission. It had representatives at the convention. The Commission signed up to the constitution. It had a major impact on the convention all the way through. I would expect the European Commission, which was part of the convention, would support its own constitution document in which it was fully involved.
As the Deputy will be aware, Commissioners actively involve themselves in such campaigns in countries throughout Europe. I would be glad to see the European Commissioners stand up for a document in which they were involved in negotiating. I would be disappointed if they did not do that.
That concludes Taoiseach's questions.