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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 May 2005

Vol. 601 No. 6

British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages.

Sections 1 to 4, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

May I ask a question? The Minister talked about responsibility but when did he first become aware of this issue? I asked him earlier to identify the then Attorney General. I am not trying to pinpoint individuals but we must be sure about who is responsible for this area. I am not suggesting that I am clear on all the technicalities involved but we employ people on behalf of the State to do that and we must be as sure as we possibly can be that they are fully responsible, that they will deliver and not cost the country unnecessary funds.

A situation arose in the health area, for instance, and I asked the Minister for Health and Children a question about the number of reports etc. The position is that 150 reports were produced costing €31 million but we now know that a memorandum was not read. We do not want long reports; we wants the facts on what happened.

I answered the question on when we knew about this matter. The suggestion was made in late 2004. I compliment my officials on bringing this issue to my attention. I told them that there is a formulation which, if followed, is safe enough, that is, the issue is brought to my attention, analysed and the legal advice of the Attorney General sought. He will say whether an issue arises. That procedure was followed and it was decided that an issue may arise and that, in the interests of certainty, the word "may" was not good enough and that it was better to close a possible loophole. Once that was decided, the idea was to draft a Bill as quickly as possible and act on it. This issue was dealt with speedily, allowing for the fact that one must await the advice.

I always describe administration as being similar to playing tennis. When the ball comes to one, the object is to return it, but one cannot play the ball again until it comes back to one. We look for legal advice but until we get that, we cannot decide our next move. When the legal advice is available, the next move is decided and so on. That was done. In relative terms this issue has not been that long in gestation. On the other hand, the procedures must be followed. We are learning from this but if an issue is raised on which there is legal doubt, the official definitive view must be sought of the relevant authority, which in this case was the Attorney General, and depending on the view, it is then acted upon.

On the question of the identity of the then Attorney General, I am not sure if that issue is relevant for a number of reasons. It is a technical area of law and there are differing legal opinions ranging from "no problem at all" to "a serious defect". Perhaps the then Attorney General would still say there was no problem because, as Members are aware, Attorneys General differ.

The identity of the Attorney General at the time is a matter of public record. Will the Minister not provide it to the Deputy?

I do not have the name in front of me.

We are past Report Stage.

That clouds the issue. I do not know——

We are on Fifth Stage and I must put the question: "That the Bill do now pass."

May I have one more minute? The Leas-Cheann Comhairle has been very indulgent but I like to help the Deputies.

I do not know whether the then Attorney General would stand over his view that this is correct. That is not the issue. The issue is that I must ask the current Attorney General for his view and, irrespective of the fact that the then Attorney General would have a different view, I must act on the advice of the current Attorney General. That is the way it works. The relevant issue, therefore, is not whether the individual who was in office at the time had a different view. The relevant issue for me, as Minister, is to get the view of the current Attorney General. That is the view on which I must act. It is irrelevant whether a previous Attorney General has a different view. If he is no longer Attorney General, that is irrelevant to the issue and is therefore a red herring.

Question put and agreed to.
Sitting suspended at 2.20 p.m. and resumed at 3.30 p.m.
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