Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 May 2005

Vol. 602 No. 6

Priority Questions.

Planning Issues.

Dinny McGinley

Question:

1 D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta i bhfianaise chinneadh an Bhoird Pleanála maidir le cúrsaí pleanála sa Ghaeltacht, an bhfuil sé i gceist aige dul i gcomhairle leis an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil féachaint le rialacháin a dhéanamh faoi alt 33 den Acht um Pleanáil agus Forbairt 2000 a chuirfeadh iallach ar lucht forbartha ráiteas tionchair teanga neamhspleách a chur ar fáil maidir le forbairt i gceantair Ghaeltachta. [16796/05]

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Éamon Ó Cuív)

Dírím aird an Teachta ar an bhfreagra a thug mé ar Cheisteanna Uimhir 284, 285 agus 286 faoin ábhar seo ar 10 Bealtaine 2005.

Tuigeann an Teachta, ar ndóigh, gurb í an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil agus na hÚdaráis Áitiúla atá freagrach as cúrsaí pleanála sa Ghaeltacht. I gcomhthéacs chuspóir lárnach mo Roinne maidir le húsáid na Gaeilge mar phríomh-theanga na Gaeltachta, áfach, fáiltím roimh an gcinneadh a rinne An Bord Pleanála. Is cosúil go mbeidh gá codán faoi leith de thithe a chur ar leataobh feasta do lucht labhartha na Gaeilge i gcás forbairtí ar nós eastáit tithíochta sa Ghaeltacht. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an beartas seo mar thaca praiticiúil chun an Ghaeilge a chothú mar theanga phobail agus teaghlaigh sa Ghaeltacht.

Is fiú a rá freisin gur chuir mo Roinn aighneacht chuig An Bord Pleanála i 2004 chun aird an bhoird a tharraingt go sonrach ar an gcontúirt a d'fhéadfadh a bheith bainteach le lonnaíocht ar nós eastáit tithíochta i gceantair oifigiúla Gaeltachta. Cuireadh béim ar an ngá le straitéisí réadúla cuí a fhorbairt chun díriú ar riachtanais na gceantar seo i gcomhthéacs teangeolaíoch. Chomh maith leis sin, i 2003 cuireadh aighneachtaí chuig na húdaráis áitiúla ar fad a bhfuil ceantar Gaeltachta faoina gcúram d'fhonn a n-aird a tharraingt ar na dualgais atá orthu i ndáil leis an nGaeilge sa Ghaeltacht i gcomhthéacs an Achta thuasluaite.

Ar mhaithe le cuidiú leis an bpróiseas, tá fó-ghrúpa NASC ag feidhmiú faoi scáth Údarás na Gaeltachta atá ag obair faoi láthair ar dhréacht-threoirlínte. Tuigtear go bhfuil sé i gceist na treoirlínte seo a eisiúint chomh luath agus a bheidh siad aontaithe. Sa chomhthéacs seo freisin, bhí mo Roinn i dteagmháil le déanaí leis an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil faoi chúrsaí pleanála go ginearálta sa Ghaeltacht d'fhonn na féidearthachtaí maidir le seimineár faoin ábhar a chíoradh leo. Tá an scéal seo go ginearálta á mheas faoi láthair ag mo Roinn i gcomhar le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta.

Mr. McGinley

Chuir muid uile fáilte roimh chinneadh an Bhoird Pleanála go mbeadh tuiscint áirithe maidir le labhairt na Gaeilge i scéimeanna móra tithíochta a chuirtear ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht. An é barúil an Aire go ndéanfaidh idirdhealú idir scéim mhór tithíochta, ina bhfuil níos mó ná 12 ann, múna gcuirtear uimhir áirithe acusan ar fáil do lucht na Gaeilge go mbeidh tionchar láidir Béarla ag a leithéid sa Ghaeltacht?

I scéim mar sin, beidh daoine le Béarla mar an chéad teanga acu. An bhfuil plean ann le cuidiú le daoine nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge agus a fhaigheann tithíocht mar sin an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim? De ghnáth, bíonn an Béarla in uachtar muna mbíonn cuidiú de chineál éigin ar fáil do dhaoine nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge acu.

Tá teagmháil idir Roinn an Aire agus an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil. An bhfuil meitheal idir-ranna bunaithe ag an Aire leis an teagmháil seo a chur ar bhonn phraiticiúil mar tharla gur chomh-chinneadh a bhí ann idir an dhá Roinn maidir leis an rialachán seo a dhréachtú?

Dúirt an tAire go ndearna sé teagmháil leis na húdaráis áitiúil i ngach contae ina bhfuil ceantar Gaeltachta. An bhfuair sé aon fhreagra ar ais? An bhfuil polasaí teanga dréachta nó curtha i bhfeidhm ag na húdaráis seo?

Éamon Ó Cuív

Tá caint faoi láthair ag go leor daoine maidir le treoirlínte faoi alt 33 den Acht. Bhí an cheist a chuir an Teachta bainteach leis sin. Má bhreathnaíonn duine ar alt 33 den Acht Pleanála, feictear domsa go mbaineann na treoirlínte a d'fhéadfadh an tAire a dhéanamh faoin Acht seo maidir le cúrsaí riaracháin. Deir alt 33(1) "The Minister shall by regulations provide for such matters of procedure and administration as appear to the Minister to be necessary or expedient in respect of applications for permission for the development of land.". Ag dul ar aghaidh, tá alt 33(3)(a):

Regulations under this section may, for the purposes of securing the attainment of an objective included in a development plan pursuant to section 10(2)(m), require any applicant for permission to provide the planning authority with such information, in respect of development

Tugann an t-alt sin cumhacht áirithe don Aire rialacháin a dhéanamh ach go mbaineann siad le cúrsaí riaracháin, cúrsaí nósmhaireachta agus cúrsaí eolais ach nach mbaineann siad le cuid mhaith den ábhar a bhíonn an pobal i gcoitinne ag plé.

Tá cumhacht eile ag an Aire agus seo an ceann a bhfuil muid ag breathnú níos géire uirthi faoi láthair mar tá sé ag teastáil: treoirlínte tá cumhacht ag an Aire le tithíocht tuaithe treoirlínte a réiteach. Tá grúpa ar bun, NASC, le hionadaithe óna comhairlí contae éagsúla Gaeltachta, Údarás na Gaeltachta, Coláiste na hOllscoile, Gaillimh, Maigh Nuad agus mo Roinn ag plé le treoirlínte, agus go leor oibre déanta orthu. Tá i gceist againn an seimineár seo a thógáil timpeall ar na treoirlínte sin a dhéanann iarracht go mbeidh réasúnta caighdeánach idir na comhairlíéagsúla le déileáil le hiarratais agus a gcinnidh a dhéanamh agus go mbeidh cur chuige aontaithe ann le déileáil leis an gceist seo.

Níor mhaith liom go n-éireoidh seo ar an teach aonarach. Ní ghá sin a dhéanamh, tá seo dírithe ar eastáit tithíochta. Sin an áit atá an dúshlán, go mór mór sa Rinn i bPort Láirge, Rath Carn agus Conamara, an trí Ghaeltacht is mó go bhfuil an chontúirt ann go mbáfar an Ghaeltacht le heastáit tithíochta. Caithfimid féachaint le rud éigin a dhéanamh faoi sin. Beidh na treoirlínte mar chuidiú don gceist sin.

Mr. McGinley

Ní dhearna an tAire tagairt ar an cheist an bhfuil meitheal idir-ranna ar bun. Is dócha go bhfuil an tAire ag plé le heastáit tithíochta. An mbaineann seo le tithe aonaracha a thógtar? Tá cead ag duine teach aonarach a thógáil gan cumas teanga ag teacht isteach ann.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Sin an moladh a bheadh agam agus sin an rud atá i bplean Chontae na Gaillimhe. Sin an tuairim a bhí agam ó thosaigh mé ar an obair seo i 1996 mar chomhairleoir nuair a chuir muid an cheist seo don chéad uair ar bhealach substaintiúil. Tá dóthain srianta ar na tithe aonaracha. Ní féidir leis na céadta daoine theacht isteach agus tosú ag tógáil tithe aonaracha in áit ar bith sa tír. Bíonn an chasaoid ag daoine nach bhfuil an iomarca smacht ar an réimse sin ar fad. Ní shin an áit atá an bhagairt.

Tá an bhagairt iontach simplí. Má tá daoine saor le teacht isteach i gceantar lonnaíochta i Rath Carn agus 300 teach a thógáil amárach, agus tá seo ag tarlú sa Rinn i bPort Láirge, i bpobal beag Gaeltachta, athraíonn sin staid na teanga go hiomlán.

De bharr an rud a dúirt mé faoi treoirlínte agus an srian atá ar na rialacháin, tá muid ag díriú ar an mheitheal oibre atá ann, NASC, atá ag obair ar cheist na treoirlínte. Beimid ag plé leis an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil nuair a bheidh siad aontaithe againn féin. Ba mhaith linn teacht ar aontas eadrainn féin orthu mar sin an gléas a theastaíonn, agus ansin rachaidh muid chuig an Roinn Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais Áitiúil.

Irish Language.

Brian O'Shea

Question:

2 Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has proposals to modernise the grammar structures and vocabulary of the Irish language; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16730/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

Responsibility for modernisation of the vocabulary of the Irish language to reflect the creation of new technical terms rests with Foras na Gaeilge under the British-Irish Agreement Act 1999. This work is ongoing with the assistance of an advisory group of experts, An Coiste Téarmaíochta.

Regarding the grammar of the language, the Deputy will be aware that the caighdeán oifigiúil was last reviewed in 1958. While I have no formulated proposals in this regard, the question of whether there is a need at this point to review the official standard again was raised briefly at the most recent meeting of Fóram na Gaeilge, and Foras na Gaeilge agreed to prepare a paper in that regard. I anticipate that the paper will be discussed at the next meeting of the fóram.

Mr. O’Shea

I thank the Minister for his reply and look forward to the presentation of the paper. Does the Minister agree it is vital that children learn to speak Irish as early as possible and use it as widely as possible? Does he agree that a major difficulty for children can be the first letter of various words, because of aspirations, eclipses and prefixes? For example, Éire become tír na hÉireann. Does the Minister agree that any obstacles confronting children using the language must be addressed and that appropriate changes, where deemed necessary in the sense of assisting children in learning the language at that early stage, should be quickly introduced?

Éamon Ó Cuív

I agree this issue must be looked at. It is very tricky. I come from a long tradition of modernists in this regard and I am often criticised for example for spelling my name "Cuív" because people say there is no "v" in Irish. My view is that modern Irish has a "v". For example, in this House we regularly used the word "Vótáil". One could spell it "Bhótáil" but the sensible and modern thing to do is use the "v" instead.

Someone recently wrote to a newspaper criticising the use of "v" in Irish. I asked an Irish scholar who turned up an interesting piece. Apparently, my father was criticised many years ago for using "v" in his name. In his reply, he explained how the litriú simplí came about, because the "cónaighe" and all such forms which would be familiar to people at the beginning of the 20th century were causing chaos to learners. It was difficult to know how to pronounce a word such as "cónaighe" if one did not know the language. In his defence, my father pointed out how this came about, but also pointed out something more interesting. He noted that in the Annals of Inishfallen in 1259 there was a reference to "Corc mac Fínguni í Kymh d'éc Bennact era anmin", but the spelling for "Caoimh" was "Kymh". Some people who want me to go back to the older version think it is "Caoimh", but I am thinking of reverting to "Kymh".

Mr. McGinley

No "v".

Éamon Ó Cuív

No, but a "k" and a "y" in Irish, which is interesting. Accordingly, there is nothing new in modernisation. There should be simplifications. I do not think one can get rid of the séimhiú totally, nor of the urú. I would prefer not to make judgments which would be better made by experts. One cannot suddenly make non-native speakers out of native speakers because they do not understand the new "speak".

However, there are great inconsistencies in the caighdeán oifigiúil. For example, we all know that in Munster Irish, one says "bhíos" agus "bhí sibh" agus "bhíomar" agus na rudaí sin ar fad, whereas in Connacht we have the simple version, with which Deputy McGinley is probably familiar, namely "bhí mé", "bhí tú", "bhí sé", "bhí muid", "bhí sibh" agus "bhí siad". I could never understand why the caighdeán oifigiúil has "bhí mé", "bhí tú", "bhí sé", "bhíomar", "bhí sibh" agus "bhí siad". I do not know why it did not use the foirm scartha gan bhriathar i gcónaí. That is by far the simplest, perfectly grammatical and correct in two of the major dialects, in my understanding. Accordingly it would be a much simpler form to teach a child, so that every verb would be the préamh of the verb, "bhí" nó "tá" nó "bheadh" and so on, with simply "mé", "tú", "sé", "muid", "sibh" and "siad".

There is work to be done in this area. I intend to pursue it. As I said, we have raised the issue with Foras na Gaeilge. The board is central to the issue because under the British-Irish Agreement Act 1999 it is responsible for An Coiste Téarmaíochta. Clearly it is sensible for the body which now has the official, legal responsibility for téarmaíocht to look also at what I see as the associated issue of grammar and the caighdeán oifigiúil. We must move forward and we cannot freeze the language. I am not a linguist or a great expert in the area but I understand that in many languages, the genitive is not used in the same form in which it was used 100 years ago. That is not unique to Irish, although in certain cases in Irish the change has accelerated.

Certain changes are quite incorrect. A common one which has entered the Irish language is "an asal" and "ar an t-asal". That is just nonsense. I will not support the bastardisation of the language by the introduction of — I will try not to use unparliamentary language although one can get away with that in Irish easier than in English — non-native forms of speech which are quite inappropriate to the language as spoken. Tá bealach nóáit idir eatarthu agus ba mhaith liom é a fheiceáil ag dul ar aghaidh.

Community Development.

Seán Crowe

Question:

3 Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, given his welcome call for new thinking on job creation and economic development in rural Ireland, he recognises the need for similar new thinking to tackle poverty and unemployment in urban and suburban centres, especially in light of ongoing job losses and the findings in the How are our Kids survey in 2005 and Do the Poor Pay More survey by the one parent exchange network in May 2005. [16805/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

I refer the Deputy to my answer to Question No. 40 of 22 February 2005.

My Department was established by Government in June 2002. When announcing the decision to establish the Department, the Taoiseach stressed the need for Government to address issues of regional and social balance in a more effective way, as well as securing economic development. He explained that my Department was being set up to produce a more co-ordinated engagement by the State with communities throughout the country as they pursue their own development.

As Minister I have responsibility for a wide range of programmes covering community and local development, drugs, volunteering, Gaeltacht, Irish language and rural development. Most of these measures, individually and collectively, focus on communities, particularly those that are vulnerable or under threat. Those communities may be in rural or inner city settings, grappling with difficulties caused by a range of factors, including declining populations, unemployment, language issues, social disadvantage or drug misuse. As well as communities which can be defined in terms of geographic location, we also support communities that are defined on the basis of a common focus on a particular issue.

The key principle underlying my Department's activities is the provision of support that enables communities to identify and address problems in their areas. Our purpose is to provide support to communities in the most appropriate way as they work to shape their futures, address their common goals and achieve their full potential.

It is this bottom up approach, where communities are empowered to develop solutions to their difficulties, that is the best source of fresh thinking to tackle such problems. As indicated in my reply of 22 February 2005, in addition to schemes specifically directed at rural and Gaeltacht areas, the programmes operated by my Department include community development programme, grants for community and voluntary sector, local development social inclusion programme, the Young Peoples Facilities and Services Fund and the RAPID programme. More than €129 million has been provided in my Department's Estimate in 2005 for these programmes. In addition, grants under the Dormant Accounts Fund Disbursements Board are available to communities experiencing disadvantage.

I accept that there is no room for complacency. We are always attempting to improve services to communities. However, the foregoing is concrete and comprehensive evidence that the Government is committed to supporting communities as they tackle the difficulties caused by disadvantage, exclusion and isolation.

Mr. Crowe

I did not pose the question to pit one community against another but to find out if the Minister sees a role for similar new thinking for tackling poverty in urban and suburban areas. Does the Minister recognise the level of deprivation and poverty that is the daily reality for many urban communities? Does he recognise the need for radical new thinking to help city and suburban communities and the need for community based finance schemes above and beyond the good work done by MABS? Does he see a role for his Department in intervening to save communities from extortionate moneylenders? Does he see a role for the State in providing banking and financial services to those communities, either in conjunction with An Post or the local credit unions? Could the Minister, in conjunction with the Ministers for Finance and Social and Family Affairs, use their good offices to lobby the banking sector to accept its responsibility to provide a community banking service, which it refuses to offer at present?

The Minister sees himself as having a co-ordinating role in the community sector. This problem is one of the things that came out of the reports on the How are our Kids and Do the Poor Pay More surveys. Does the Minister agree that in common with many rural working class communities, people in city and suburban areas are facing huge challenges in dealing with the transition from the old economy activities to new ones? I can cite examples from my constituency where there has been a haemorrhage of jobs. There have been jobs losses in Gallahers, Coke, APW, Packard and so forth. The unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Many locally based manufacturing and electronics jobs are becoming part of history rather than providing secure employment.

Does the Minister accept that there is a need for new thinking? Is there a role for his Department and other Departments to come together to examine the banking issue? Moneylenders are putting people to the wall. Everybody accepts there is a problem in this regard but no solutions are being put forward. There is a role for the State in providing small loans these people cannot get otherwise. Will the Department examine this in conjunction with other Departments?

Éamon Ó Cuív

The Deputy has raised a major issue. It is amazing how people can be given a certain colouring by popular perception. Many people perceive me as being essentially rural and rurally biased. However, all my formative years were spent in Dublin. When asked where the greatest crisis is, in terms of community, lifestyle and planning, I have said time and again that it is in the cities. Last night, when I met the Council for the West, I agreed that there are unquestionably problems in the west but I also asked if the council knew many people from the rural west who, of their free volition, would move tomorrow to live in one of the RAPID areas. I mean no disrespect to the people in those areas but disadvantages would accrue. When I challenge people on that point, and I have said this in meetings throughout the country, they will immediately accept it. One of the reasons that rural Ireland is worth fighting for is that it is a great place to live if one is lucky enough to have a job.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must proceed to the next question.

Éamon Ó Cuív

The issues the Deputy raised are central. What is the nature of the problem? It is curious that the RAPID areas in this city are largely located cheek by jowl with the areas of the greatest opportunities in both education and employment anywhere in the country. The problem is not jobs per se as we would have understood it 30 years ago. People are coming from all over the country to take up jobs in Dublin. The big challenge is education and the educational attainments of people in RAPID areas, which are a good definition of the most deprived communities. These can range as low as 2% to 3% of the population getting a third level education. Creating all these fantastic jobs is no good because these people cannot get them. They cannot get through that gate, the gate being education, skills and training.

Life is full of dilemmas. How is it that in these areas of huge population near the universities and jobs only 2% to 3% of the population, and in some cases it is as low as 1%, get a third level education? Then there are places in other parts of the country, far from third level facilities, where 60% to 70% of the population get a third level education. The situation is full of ironies. That is the challenge. I have always believed that educational attainment is one of the keys to solving the problems discussed by the Deputy.

One must then ask why these people do not get the education. Is it due to bad schools? That is when one realises that there are family, lifestyle and social segregation issues, partly and largely due to bad planning whereby society was socially segregated, which has a huge effect on educational attainments.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must move to the next question. We are over the time.

Éamon Ó Cuív

With your indulgence, I wish to address the money issue. There are a number of issues for people who have problems with money. Shortage of money is one. Lack of knowledge of how to deal with debt is another, in addition to a lack of knowledge of the law if one is in debt. People succumb to pressure because they do not know how to handle debt or do not know their rights. Advice and services such as MABS are incredibly important. Some people run out of money to maintain their gas and electricity supplies and we must deal with that problem.

It is a cross-departmental issue. That is the reason we have made all this investment in community development projects, partnerships and so forth. They can get through to the people in the communities. There is a huge role for the credit unions here. It is the people's bank. It is in the community and owned by the community. They cannot simply give the money away but they have a role in social banking. They have already played a huge role but we must examine new ways of dealing with that problem. It is a frightening problem for people who are in debt to moneylenders and others.

Dinny McGinley

Question:

4 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has satisfied himself that the CLÁR funding programme is sufficient to meet the needs of disadvantaged rural communities; if he will consider alternative criteria in deciding the allocation of CLÁR funding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16806/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

CLÁR funds or co-funds, together with other Departments, State agencies and local authorities, invest in selected priority developments. These investments support physical, economic and social infrastructure across a wide range of measures and reflect the priorities identified by the communities in the selected areas, whom I consulted at the start of the programme.

Expenditure under the CLÁR programme amounted to €14.14 million in 2002, €8.613 million in 2003 and €12.116 million in 2004 which, it is estimated, leveraged out a further €36.5 million in related public and private expenditure in those three years. The estimate for 2005 is €13.7 million, an increase of more than 13% on the 2004 outturn. As a result, I expect that, once again, a comprehensive work programme will be completed in 2005 and I am satisfied that CLÁR is making a sustained and strong positive contribution to rural communities.

In general, no specific allocations are made to the CLÁR areas of counties from each year's Estimates provision for the programme. Some measures are demand led while in other cases the projects are, by and large, selected or recommended by the relevant Departments, State agencies, Leader groups and local authorities in consultation with my Department. However, under the non-national roads measure, allocations are made to each local authority based on the county's percentage of the total CLÁR population.

This approach ensures both efficiency and effectiveness in delivering the programme and meets the needs of the people in the CLÁR areas. I intend to continue these procedures for any new measures I may introduce, depending on the needs identified. Equally, I will keep under review the operation of existing measures. The CLÁR programme vividly demonstrates that relatively small amounts of public funding, specifically targeted, can have a profound and positive impact in disadvantaged rural areas.

Mr. McGinley

Is it correct that most of the CLÁR areas were selected on the basis of population decline between 1926 and 1996, which was probably the last year for which census figures were available prior to the launch of the programme in 2001? Does the Minister agree many other rural areas that may not have experienced sustained population decline since 1926 are equally disadvantaged? As a result of job losses and other economic difficulties, a number of areas in my constituency should be as entitled to CLÁR funding as areas included in the programme. Will the Minister consider extending the qualifying criteria for the programme to include such areas? What is the future of the programme? Can the Minister guarantee this worthwhile scheme will continue? I have only one criticism: ‘Sé an locht an laghad'.

Éamon Ó Cuív

The figures were adjusted on the basis of the 2002 census and significant additions were made to the programme. I am happy that, within the criteria laid down, no other areas are eligible and I have examined this issue thoroughly.

The Deputy has touched on the nub of the matter. I am delighted there is demand to expand the CLÁR areas because that signifies the programme has delivered. It has dealt with the micro-infrastructure, which is very important but which is often overlooked. There is no point providing a main water pipe if it is not connected to a house down a little boreen; there is no point building a motorway if the boreen to the house is not connected to it and there is no point in providing major sewerage systems in large cities and towns if little villages are not provided with similar schemes. Similarly, there is no point providing massive community facilities in large towns if small communities with which the Deputy and myself are familiar do not have them.

CLÁR was intended to deal with minor issues in small towns and villages while taking into account the lack of critical mass that often bedevils the provision of facilities in small rural areas. I would love to expand CLÁR but there would be no point in doing so unless I had the funds to sustain the programme. Governments were enthusiastic about successful programmes in the past and expanded them but the butter got so thin on the bread that it could not be seen anymore. An appreciable difference can be made through the funding of €13 million which assists approximately 350,000 people in the CLÁR areas. However, if the programme was expanded to cover 500,000 people, a pro rata increase in the budget would have to be provided. We must be realistic in this regard.

It would be ideal if we could cover all of rural Ireland outside the periurban areas. Such areas are more urban than rural even though grass still grows in them. However, the issue boils down to resources. My primary obligation is to make the programme work and I am doing so. I am examining new measures because the goalposts keep moving. I am happy that many houses have become part of group water schemes. These schemes in rural areas were expensive but the people involved would never have had access to water if we had not introduced the schemes.

Mr. McGinley

I attended a meeting at Convoy, County Donegal, last Monday about a proposed group water scheme in the area. The contribution per participant is €3,500. An area such as this would benefit greatly from inclusion in the CLÁR programme. Does the Minister hold out hope for small communities, particularly those in farming areas, in east Donegal?

Éamon Ó Cuív

There are two fundamentals in life, water and a decent road. No rural Deputy would argue with that thesis but the challenge is how we get to that. I acknowledge the Deputy's comments. I will keep in mind areas such as those mentioned by him in my discussions with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Brian O'Shea

Question:

5 Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his proposals to assist in having public service jobs provided in rural areas, the economies of rural areas strengthened in rural areas, the strengthening of small indigenous enterprises in rural areas, the developments of small niche food enterprises in rural areas and the augmenting of incomes of low earning workers in remote rural areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16731/05]

Éamon Ó Cuív

I refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. 123 of 9 November 2004, in which I stated I had undertaken a wide range of initiatives in support of rural economies, including the establishment and expansion of the CLÁR programme; establishment of the rural social scheme; small food producers forum and co-ordinator; Comhairle na Tuaithe; and a review of enterprise supporting rural areas. The establishment of the CLÁR programme has enabled me to support physical, economic and social infrastructure across a wide range of measures and has the potential to create additional jobs through improved productivity and delivery of services.

The rural social scheme established in 2004 provides for improved rural services directly while ensuring an income and employment support for farmers who can no longer make a viable living on the land, within a working arrangement compatible with farming. This scheme was designed specifically for farm families and its operations and structures are operated in a farmer-friendly manner. It recognises that farmers have a wealth of experience and talents, which need to be preserved for future generations, and these talents are being harnessed for the good of the community. The scheme focuses on the provision of direct services in the community.

My Department has also funded the appointment of a small food producers co-ordinator to work, under the aegis of Comhar Leader na hÉireann, with artisan and traditional food producers. This initiative is aimed at identifying barriers inhibiting small food producers, ranging from the scale of the enterprise, access to funding and distribution, marketing and promotion as well as the provision of skills and training and the regulatory environment.

I established Comhairle na Tuaithe in February 2004. It includes representatives of farmer, recreational users, tourism marketing bodies and other interested groups. Comhairle na Tuaithe works on conflict resolution in regard access to the countryside, the development of a countryside code and a countryside recreation strategy.

In conjunction with the Ministers for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Arts, Sport and Tourism, I initiated a review of enterprise support in rural areas. My Department, in conjunction with the two other Departments, is examining the recommendations of the consultant's report. In further support of rural areas, my Department continues to oversee the delivery of a number of programmes. These comprise the Leader programme; rural development fund; PEACE II programme; rural initiative measure of INTERREG; and farm relief services.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

Under the Leader+ and area-based rural development initiatives, my Department provides almost €150 million in funding for the implementation of agreed business plans for the development of all rural areas between 2000 and 2006. These initiatives include the provision of important support to indigenous rural enterprises and small food producers in strengthening and developing their capacity.

I also support a number of pilot projects from my Department's rural development fund to regenerate particularly disadvantaged rural areas through a variety of community initiatives. The cross-Border rural development measures of the PEACE II programme aim to promote agriculture and rural development co-operation in the Border area. The rural initiative measure of the INTERREG Ireland-Northern Ireland programme is aimed at encouraging rural businesses and communities to engage in the development of their area.

My Department also provides funding to the farm relief services measure of the national development plan. The funding is primarily aimed at training of farm relief operatives and staff with smaller elements for infrastructure and research and development. In addition, the Government programme of decentralisation will promote regional balance and will result in the relocation of a wide range of Departments in whole or in part and a significant number of high quality jobs to areas outside Dublin. My Department will relocate to Knock Airport and na Forbacha.

EU proposals on the future of rural development should provide further opportunities, post-2006, to strengthen and develop the capacity of rural areas.

Mr. O’Shea

I tabled the question because I read recently about a survey conducted in the Minister's county regarding how it had reacted to changes in the economy and agriculture in particular. It was alarming that the majority of farms generated less than €10,000 per annum except in the Clarinbridge area where the figure was higher. The majority of men in the county are unskilled whereas women are more involved in professions such as nursing and teaching. Is it not important that there is an upskilling of the male population in these areas because, according to the survey, approximately half the farms are passing on to an heir? There are fundamental structural problems. While the working population in these areas has increased, which is to be welcomed, the imbalance in the range of skills vis-à-vis gender is an important issue that must be addressed.

Éamon Ó Cuív

I accept the points made by the Deputy regarding the survey, which was very interesting and comprehensive. One important finding was that over 90% of those surveyed said that they were happy in the place where they lived. That was great news and it mirrored the impression I got when I toured those areas and spoke to people.

The surveyors were clever in that they selected an area in the Connemara Gaeltacht, Clarinbridge, which is partly urban. They then selected Glinsk, which is a very strong farming area. The final area surveyed was in the south of the county, around Laurencetown, if my memory serves me correctly. The aim was to survey a mix of areas — strong farming areas, poor farm and fishing areas in the Gaeltacht and partly urban areas.

The survey produced some very interesting information. There were no complaints, for example, in Gorumna about the roads and while I do not think the situation is perfect, the Gaeltacht road strategy has paid dividends. However, there were many complaints about health services in that area. It is also the area with the highest number of people who want their own children to settle there, which is a great indicator of how happy people are. It was a very interesting study.

Deputy O'Shea is correct in his comments about the imbalance in educational skills. In rural Ireland in the past, those who received an education moved on and moved out of an area, while those who were not educated stayed on to farm the family land, which poses challenges for us today. We must recognise that people aged 50 or 55 are not likely to train or enter the conventional education system to get a fancy job in an electronics or software company. However, many of them have a wealth of skills and under the rural social scheme we have been working to develop those indigenous skills. We should never dismiss skills. The revival of interest in the skill of dry stone walling, as well as the amount of money that people are willing to pay for it, is incredible. Such a skill cannot be acquired at university, it exists among the rural community who have practised it and handed it on from generation to generation. There are different types of skills and we should not dismiss those of older farmers, acquired through traditional activities.

Mr. O’Shea

Dry stone walling is also experiencing a revival in the Kerry Gaeltacht and the work is excellent.

Improvements in services are being sought and problems with health services in particular, must be addressed. One of the conclusions of the survey puzzled me, namely, the suggestion that commuting has both positive and negative effects on areas.

Éamon Ó Cuív

When an area grows by virtue of an expansion of its commuting population, social capital can be reduced. This is because many new people arrive who have no connection with the area. They leave at 6 a.m. or 7 a.m. to go to work, put their children in a crèche and do not arrive home until late in the evening, by which time they are tired, hungry and stressed. They feed their families, do their household chores, fall into bed and then get up the following day to repeat the cycle.

One of the challenges for our society is that, while we are better off economically, there has been a social capital cost attached to the increase in wealth. Our final measure of should be quality of life. Sometimes we talk too much about the economy and too little about creating for our people the best——

Mr. English

It is the Minister's Government that talks too much about the economy.

Éamon Ó Cuív

Quality of life is the ultimate measure for me.