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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 21 Jun 2005

Vol. 604 No. 4

Private Members’ Business.

Morris Tribunal: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann,

—conscious of the widespread and justified public disquiet at the findings of the first and second reports of the tribunal of inquiry into complaints concerning some gardaí of the Donegal division;

—appreciative of the work of Mr. Justice Morris and of the significance of his recommendations for the future operation of the Garda Síochána;

—noting in particular the tribunal's findings:

—of appalling management of the Garda Síochána coupled with the manipulation of facts and circumstances to present to Garda headquarters and to the world at large an untruthful appearance of honesty and integrity in the Donegal Garda division;

—that the scandalous situation detailed in its Second Report was caused by a combination of gross negligence at senior level within the Garda Síochána, amounting to the criminal negligence standard in law, and a lack of objectivity and corruption at lower levels within the force;

—that, if there was a lack of proper management at senior level, corruption at middle level and a lack of review throughout the force, similar such situations could occur again; and

—that there will be no possibility of progress for the Garda Síochána until the infighting between officers, the failure of gardaí to account immediately and truthfully for their duties and the consequent effect on good morale are all fully addressed and there is in place an authority which is empowered to react;

—conscious of the recommendation of the tribunal that, at a minimum, the provisions of the Garda Síochána Bill 2004 should be reviewed by the Oireachtas so as to satisfy the legitimate disquiet arising from the lack of any independent body to receive legitimate concerns about Garda behaviour;

—aware of the need for fundamental structural reforms to ensure a policing service that is both democratically accountable and compliant with the rule of law; and

—convinced of the need for systematic independent examination and review of the structures and procedures of policing in the State and of the governing legislation, with a view to recommendations for reform;

calls on the Government to establish an independent commission to inquire into policing in Ireland, with the following terms of reference:

(1) To consult widely, with both members of the public, public bodies and non-governmental organisations and, on the basis of its findings, to bring forward proposals for future policing structures and arrangements, with particular regard to the need to ensure that;

(a) policing arrangements are such that the State has a police service that can enjoy widespread support from, and is seen as an integral part of, the community as a whole;

(b) the Garda Síochána is structured, managed and resourced so that it can be effective in discharging its full range of functions, including structured co-operation with other police forces;

(c) the education and training of members of the Garda Síochána is of the highest order;

(d) there is a transparent and impartial mechanism for promotions and appointments at all levels of the service;

(e) the police service is delivered in constructive and inclusive partnerships with the community at all levels;

(f) the legislative and constitutional framework requires the impartial discharge of policing functions and conforms with internationally accepted norms in relation to policing standards; and

(g) the Garda Síochána operates within a clear framework of accountability to the law and the community it serves, so that:

(i) it is constrained by, accountable to and acts only within the law;

(ii) its powers and procedures, like the law it enforces, are clearly established and publicly available;

(iii) there are open, accessible and independent means of investigating and adjudicating upon complaints against its members;

(iv) there are clearly established arrangements enabling local communities, and their political representatives, to articulate their views and concerns about policing and to establish publicly policing priorities and influence policing policies, subject to safeguards to ensure police impartiality and freedom from partisan political control;

(v) there are arrangements for accountability and for the effective, efficient and economic use of resources in achieving policing objectives; and

(vi) there are means to ensure independent professional scrutiny and inspection of the police service to ensure that proper professional standards are maintained.

(2) To complete its consultations and deliberations and to report its findings and recommendations to the Houses of the Oireachtas in as efficient and economical a manner as possible and at the earliest possible date consistent with a fair examination of the matters referred to it and, in any event, no later than 18 months from the date of its establishment."

I wish to share time with Deputy Costello.

In moving this motion in my name and that of my Labour Party colleagues, I am struck by the fact that in its 80-year history the Garda Síochána has never been the subject of a root and branch review. The force was formed in circumstances of understandable speed and stealth and its governing legislation, which somewhat post-dates its establishment, did not then or at any time since receive anything remotely approaching normal consideration within the Oireachtas, let alone an input from other stakeholders in civil society.

Even the most famous of various ad hoc reports, the Conroy report of 1970, was produced by a committee appointed by the Garda Commissioner to report simply on pay and conditions. As Professor Dermot Walsh points out in his 1998 book, The Irish Police, none of the reports of committees and consultants, either collectively or individually, offers a comprehensive analysis of some of the most basic aspects of the Garda Síochána today, namely, its status, structure and management.

Our first reason for proposing this review is a simple one, it has never been done before. I can think of no other institution so central to the life of the nation and its citizens that has escaped sustained, focused and coherent analysis for so long. It is about time we got around to a structured, participative debate on society's need for policing and on the design of the service we should put in place to deliver on those needs.

I stress that the debate must be participative, including not just Ministers and public representatives but also the police and those who are policed. In that regard, we make no apology for modelling our proposed terms of reference on those of Patten but also for proposing its methodology — a structured series of public meetings throughout the State to engage people at neighbourhood level in debating these vital issues.

I am aware this motion will, nonetheless, attract an almost inevitably hostile reaction in some quarters. When a group was appointed in 1996 to review the efficiency and effectiveness of the force, its consultants suggested that the review group should adopt a "blank sheet" approach to the Garda Síochána, along the lines of the Patten commission's work in Northern Ireland. At a conference of Garda chief superintendents, one of the senior members replied by stating:

This force has too proud a history to be treated in such a manner. It has contributed enormously to the building of this nation and continues to do so.

Until recently, the Garda Síochána was one of the few remaining public institutions we criticised at our peril. We could point to wrongdoing, but only as long as we immediately insisted that such breaches were exceptional. If fault was exposed, we were assured — we repeated the assurance — it lay at individual level. No-one queried whether such faults had become ingrained or institutionalised.

In her speech last Friday, Deputy O'Donnell quoted a statement made in 1922 by the first Commissioner of the Garda, Michael Staines. He said: "The Garda Síochána will succeed, not by force of arms or numbers, but by their moral authority as servants of the people." The Labour Party borrowed that saying for the cover page of its document proposing a Garda authority and ombudsman almost five years ago. Commissioner Staines's assertion is important because it highlights a basic point. In a civilised democracy, the most precious asset any police service can have is public confidence in its ability and its integrity. However, in this country that asset is diminishing.

The Garda Síochána still attracts a share of public support, respect and even affection, but not as much as it used to and even less as a result of the continuing fall-out from the Morris tribunal. Between 1990 and 1998 there was a 90% increase in complaints against the Garda Síochána. In 1998, for example, when 1,400 complaints were made against members of the Garda Síochána, only six were referred to a tribunal. The chairman of the Garda Síochána Complaints Board, Gordon Holmes, stated that public confidence in the Garda is at, or near, an all-time low. He said that, while the majority of gardaí are "first class", the public perception is that officers who behave less than honourably are not being adequately investigated and punished. Morale within the force is also, by all accounts, at an all-time low.

We do the force no favours by conspiring to gloss over these facts. When news emerged of the Commissioner's decision to transfer some gardaí named in the second Morris report to Dublin, analogies were made with the Roman Catholic Church's treatment of abusing priests. The analogy is an apt one because in both institutions there is an aversion to the public gaze and a belief that some things are better kept from public view. The belief is that one only compounds the original wrong by making it known since publication attacks the belief system of what used to be called the "simple faithful".

That sort of delusional, self-serving craving for secrecy and cover-up never succeeds and is ultimately utterly destructive of any remaining public inclination towards trust. The reality is that a chronic condition within the force has now become critical. It was once possible to argue for an independent review of policing simply because such occasional reviews are by definition a good thing. It was possible to argue that a commission on policing had been undertaken in Northern Ireland and its proposals not only made sense in the context of that jurisdiction but had intrinsic merit and were worth examining here.

The situation now is that a review is not just timely but desperately urgent. It is not just a question of copying from the neighbours because what they do seems to work quite well, but of coming to terms with the fact that what we do is not working. As the Minister, Deputy McDowell, put it last Friday: "It is a force we all support but it has serious defects exposed in its constitution, its management and its ethics". It is, again according to the Minister, suffering from "a collapse of morale and, as Mr. Justice Morris says, a collapse of discipline and accountability structures". That is as good a list as any of the issues to be looked at by an independent commission: defective constitution, management and ethics, and a collapse of morale, discipline and accountability.

I make no bones about what the principal submission from my party to a commission on policing would be and what I hope that commission's principal recommendation would be, namely, that we need a Garda authority and a Garda ombudsman. This is so for two compelling reasons. The first is to secure real and effective accountability from the Garda Síochána, something the Minister and his predecessors have signally failed to do. The second is to protect the Garda Síochána from political interference and permit the genuinely independent investigation of legitimate complaints against gardaí.

There is plenty of other material for a commission to consider, much of it for the first time. The Minister told us last Friday he had provided the force with a proper written constitution for the first time in 80 years, which he called a "new charter of accountability and responsibility". Let us consider his charter. First, for all his repeated and insistent references to the issue, the Minister's Bill says absolutely nothing about the security and intelligence aspects of the force's remit — are these too secret to legislate for? I had some words to say in this regard last Friday. Second, although most people would consider it to be a defining characteristic of the Garda Síochána, this constitutional charter has nothing to say about its unarmed status. The Minister could, under the Bill, direct the Commissioner to arm every garda on the beat. Although the House could deplore that directive, there is nothing in law it could do to defeat it. So much for accountability to the Dáil. Third, there is nothing in the Bill on even basic and long-standing structures within the force such as, for example, the division between uniformed police and detectives. Fourth, most fundamental of all, the Bill is silent as to the status in law of the individual members of the force.

Why does the Minister insist in section 41 that the State will be liable for wrongs done by individual members only in performing their functions under this Bill and not their functions under other Acts or at common law? This question is particularly pertinent given that this Bill does not confer functions on individual members. Why does he insist that the statement in section 7, outlining the functions of the force, has no effect on the powers, immunities, privileges and duties that individual members of the force have under all those other Acts and at common law? He must know that an important and outstanding legal issue, dealt with in some detail by Dermot Walsh but still unresolved, is the extent to which gardaí can consider themselves to be independent office holders — peace officers rather than employees of the force or of the State.

This issue goes to the heart of the debate about the duty of gardaí to account to their superiors. If gardaí are, even occasionally, independent office holders, how can they be directed as to what to do or called to account for how they do it? Yet, the Bill seeks to preserve this arcane common law status of peace officer rather than to rationalise it.

There is plenty of material for a commission on policing, well before one proceeds to issues of interaction with and accountability to the community. However, I will return to our central submission, the proposal for a Garda authority and a Garda ombudsman. By an ombudsman, I mean an individual with independence, capacity and resources to react swiftly and intervene immediately — to be able to react, if need be, to the lunchtime news and to descend on or preserve a scene. One cannot, with the best will in the world, find that capacity in a committee. Nor can one clearly identify where responsibility is reposed.

When the Minister was asked why he still insists the commission must be multi-member, his reply insulted the intelligence of his audience: there had to be cover for the holidays. His answer was absurd, both at policy level and the level of mechanics. A simple tweaking of the power to delegate, which is already provided for in the Bill, would enable temporary absences to be covered. It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that those who framed this legislation want a Garda ombudsman commission that will proceed at a deliberate and cautious pace because they want to be able, quite literally, to keep ahead of the posse.

The reason we need real and effective Garda accountability is because the force and its members possess extraordinary powers over the rest of us and those powers can be and are abused. There are circles in which that simple proposition is not accepted. There are those who would be happy enough to let the Garda Síochána at it. They believe that most gardaí, most of the time, exercise their powers for the common good. They believe that, quite frankly, when gardaí abuse their powers their victims are mostly the sort of people who had it coming to them. We should not, as the Taoiseach would put it, get "weak kneed" if the Garda Síochána cut a few corners, so long as they are generally on the right track.

I do not accept that approach, particularly when it comes with the sort of macho posturing the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea likes to specialise in, but for which he is so spectacularly unsuited. That Minister described as "weak", "mealy-mouthed" and "extraordinary" a statement by Deputy Joe Costello following the shooting dead of two attempted robbers in Lusk last month. What Deputy Costello said was that "where people die as a result of Garda action, there must be proper procedures for an independent investigation into such incidents". The fact that Deputy Costello was quoting almost verbatim from a judgment of the European Court of Human Rights, which is binding on the Irish courts, was neither here nor there so far as the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, was concerned. The notion that the same rules of law must apply in Lusk as in Loughall or in Gibraltar seems to mean nothing at all to him when there is a column to be written or a space to be filled.

Garda powers have been abused in the past and they will undoubtedly be abused in future. That is an inevitable fact of life, not just because it happens in every walk of life but because it is particularly likely to happen in this walk of life where the stakes are high and the playing field is not level. The temptation is to red-circle cases like the Birmingham Six or the fallout from the Sallins mail robbery, including the Nicky Kelly case, as momentary lapses from a generally high standard. After all, the Kelly case occurred when there was a "heavy gang" operating within the Garda Síochána. It operated not just outside the regular structures of the force but outside and in direct breach of the law. Before one writes off the heavy gang as only of historical interest, let us see what connections in personnel and methodology have led to more than one recent, infamous, retracted confession being obtained in Garda custody.

Questioning in Garda custody is of its nature both secret and compulsory. These two factors create an environment in which the suspect can become a subject of oppression and can be induced to make a statement. Over 100 years ago a judge used straightforward language to put the issue in perspective. Justice Cave in R. v Thompson (1883) said:

It is remarkable that it is of very rare occurrence for evidence of a confession to be given when proof of prisoner's guilt is otherwise clear and satisfactory; but when it is not clear and satisfactory the prisoner is not infrequently alleged to have been seized with the desire, born of penitence and remorse, to supplement it with a confession; and this desire itself again vanishes as soon as he appears in a court of justice.

More than a century later we had the case of Dean Lyons, who was accused of the brutal murder of two patients in Grangegorman in 1997, taken to the Bridewell, placed in a video and tape-recording suite and interviewed. In that interview, he admitted to every charge put to him. The transcript shows that he was confused and incoherent. He suffered from learning difficulties at school, feared authority figures and had a habit of confessing to things he had not done. His mother and father, who visited him in the Bridewell, said he appeared completely disorientated and was swaying and slurring his words.

After they left, Dean Lyons made another, written, statement and was then charged with the murders of Sylvia Shields and Mary Callinan. When this statement was made, there was no video or audio taping. This statement contained a chronologically correct narrative about the murders. Some of the information was known only to the real murderer and to the Garda Síochána. The written statement is in clear, mostly grammatically correct English. Dean Lyons had left school with partial reading and writing skills and he had a very limited vocabulary. On the basis of his confession he was charged with the murders.

Three weeks later, Mark Nash was arrested in Roscommon and also admitted to the Grangegorman murders, again giving information that was known only to Garda detectives. Mark Nash has been convicted of the Roscommon killings but, despite his confession to the Grangegorman murders, he has not been charged with them. Dean Lyons remained in prison for eight months before the State Solicitor withdrew the charges, giving no reason.

Three years after becoming Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell has still taken no action to investigate this fortuitously aborted attempted miscarriage of justice. Concern about these cases does not come just from the usual suspects, namely disaffected cranks and agitators. Let us consider this voice from the coalface. Retired Circuit Court judge Anthony Murphy, who presided over criminal trials for Cork city and county for many years, told "Prime Time Investigates": "There have been occasions when the guards have committed perjury in my court". Mr. Murphy added that, when he heard confessions that were:

couched in Templemore phraseology . . . I had a simple rule about it. If there was a confession and nothing else, the man walked.

This boils down to an allegation from the bench of a concerted practice on the part of gardaí to pervert the course of justice yet we have heard no adequate response to this allegation since then. It might as well not have been made. Successive Ministers for Justice and their officials in the permanent administration have known about these cases but they have not seen it to be in their interests, or the public interest, to do anything about it.

Before the parties opposite get into childish tit-for-tat retaliation I am aware this party has had periods in Government. I know the Fine Gael-Labour programme for Government of 1982 included a commitment to establish a Garda authority. I would be interested to know when and how that commitment ran into the ground. The fact that nothing, or at any rate not enough, happened then is no excuse for inaction now.

What is required, as the then Minister for Justice Michael Noonan stated in May 1983, is "an appropriate balance between the need for proper control and accountability on the one hand and, on the other hand, the need for the force to be able to go about its work unhindered by undue interference from any source".

I accept and adopt Deputy Noonan's approach. There can be no question of surrendering control of the force to any body not answerable to this House, including the Director of Public Prosecutions, as the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, and former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, tried to claim had almost happened. That allegation is just a distraction to draw attention away from the inaction on their watch. The two Deputies play word games about reports, synopses, summaries and appendices. The fact is they were told more than enough and soon enough but they tried, for as long as they could, to get away with doing nothing.

I also share Deputy Noonan's views on the need to protect the force from political interference. The reality is that the Garda Síochána has become one of the most politicised institutions in this State, including not just office politics or institutional politics but party politics. The Moriarty tribunal heard evidence last week about how a Taoiseach could arrange interviews with the chairman of the Revenue Commissioners for the benefit of one of his donors. We know that the same Taoiseach's Government exercised an utterly malign influence over the Garda Síochána right up to the level of the Deputy Commissioner with responsibility for national security. It was one of the most sordid episodes of our recent history, involving a flagrant violation of constitutional rights and a violation of the integrity of the force. Yet no one within the force shouted stop.

More jovial elements in the Fianna Fáil party could revel in the "pint or a transfer" culture but the Taoiseach was attempting to subvert public institutions, to create nothing short of his own, privatised police force that would serve his own, private purposes. That Taoiseach also had his own private bank, which the regulatory authorities either did not or could not touch.

At the same time the manager of Dublin county had his own private practice as a planning adviser, charging money to the developers he was meant to police. When the Garda Síochána failed to make progress in any of their investigations into planning scandals, they nonetheless felt obliged to record a ringing endorsement of the character of at least one of those being investigated, a former colleague of the present Taoiseach, along with a virtual apology for presuming that he could do wrong. Again, no one in any of those public bodies called a halt. To this day nobody from the public service has come out to give information.

The reason my party wants a Garda authority is the same reason it wants to see the long promised and much delayed Revenue Act, which is meant to protect the operational independence of the Revenue Commissioners. It is the same reason we want the Freedom of Information Act rescued and restored from the savage filleting it has endured at the hands of this Government. It is the same reason we want transparent, effective and properly policed planning legislation.

We believe in a public service that belongs to and is answerable to the public and that is incapable of being corrupted to serve private interests. There are those of a certain vintage, retired from politics or public administration, who routinely remind us that, for all this State's other defects, we at least have an independent, impartial and trustworthy public service — civil, police and military — of undoubted integrity. I do not know for how long they will continue to make that boast or how many exceptions they will have to admit, while insisting that exceptions simply go to prove the rule.

In all the investigations, inquiries, hearings, trials and reports that I can think of, there has not been a single instance of a public servant, local or national, who has been willing to go on the public record to expose wrongdoing by his or her political masters. We have not had an on-the-record whistleblower since the foundation of the State. The reality is that during the years in which one party has wielded power in this State, our public service has become more concerned with discerning its master's voice than with finding its own.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has a political philosophy which doubles up as a catchy election slogan: "You can trust any Government at all, so long as he and his party are in it, keeping a beady eye on the other lot, on behalf of the rest of us." I prefer to put my trust, in the words of John Adams, in "a government of laws and not of men". It is not sufficient, when one uncovers wrong, simply to remove the wrongdoers. One must examine the system and the processes which allowed that wrong to happen and which will, if left in place, permit similar wrongdoing to flourish and will enable future wrongdoers to escape culpability.

Last Friday, this House heard four hours of statements on the second report of the Morris tribunal of inquiry into the Garda investigation of the death of Richie Barron and the extortion telephone calls to the home of Michael and Charlotte Peoples. The House heard the extraordinary findings of the Morris tribunal that innocent citizens in Donegal had been harassed, intimidated, threatened, bullied, blackmailed, assaulted and framed by gardaí in the course of a murder investigation where no murder had occurred.

The House also heard that senior gardaí in Donegal were complicit or negligent in the sham investigation. The House heard that Garda headquarters had responded inefficiently and ineffectively. In addition, the House heard that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Attorney General and the Director of Public Prosecutions had succumbed to a bureaucratic and paralysing malaise concerning the whole matter.

The picture of a seriously dysfunctional criminal justice system detailed in this second report by Mr. Justice Morris was mirrored in the first interim report of the Morris tribunal and, we were told in the House last week by no less a person than the Taoiseach, will continue in future reports.

The human trauma and tragedy of innocent civilians being subjected to a criminal conspiracy by agents of the State are the most pressing and immediate concerns arising from the Morris tribunal. These concerns must be addressed in terms of apologies, legal representation and compensation.

For example, I spoke to Sheenagh McMahon yesterday and she is furious that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave no commitment on Friday last that he would issue an apology to her and her family. She was previously married to Detective Garda Noel McMahon and has lived a nightmare since 1992. Bombs were made in her house, plots were hatched by gardaí and their informers. She was taken into custody, her children were taken from her and she had a mental breakdown. She made a statement to the Carty committee in 1999, but withdrew it under pressure from gardaí. When she got her files back through a freedom of information request the most important details were garbled through deletions.

Having been rebuffed at every turn by agents of the State and having had her life ruined, Sheenagh McMahon courageously brought her files to the tribunal and told her story to Mr. Justice Morris. Does she and her young family not deserve a formal apology from the State? Will the Minister make a commitment today to give it to her?

Moreover, Mr. Frank McBrearty Jr. told me that in the High Court yesterday the State offered him only a conditional apology. Apparently, the State does not accept that a confession to a murder that never occurred cannot be a confession.

In the long term, the reputation of, and public confidence in, the Garda Síochána have suffered a very serious blow. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has assured us that he has everything under control and that the Garda Síochána Bill 2004 addresses all the issues and covers all the bases, but that is patently untrue. The Bill is an amalgam of provisions lacking in a coherent philosophy. That is demonstrated by the bevy of new amendments we received this evening, many of them in draft form, for Report Stage.

The Garda Síochána Bill is a hybrid that has changed again and again as flaws appeared in one proposal or another. The Minister has put the cart before the horse. Instead of conducting a root and branch examination of the needs of the Garda Síochána, researching best practice abroad and determining a framework for a force that would be relevant to policing needs in the 21st century, the Minister has decided to fill in the widening cracks and put a fresh coat of paint on the surface.

The Minister appears not to recognise that it is insufficient to dismiss wrongdoing as the activities of a few bad apples and then assert that the body corporate is essentially sound. Neither does he recognise that the Donegal scandal is a watershed for the Garda Síochána. It is similar to the corrupt payments scandal for politicians, the DIRT inquiry for the banks and the cases of institutional abuse for the church. The Garda Síochána is the latest pillar of society that has been found to be crumbling.

It is not good enough for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to allow a chief superintendent to retire and walk away as though nothing had happened, when he was found to have been seriously at fault in the duty of supervision and management by Mr. Justice Morris in the tribunal's first interim report.

It is not good enough that Superintendent Joe Shelley and Detective Superintendent John McGinley will retire on full pension on 31 July 2005 and walk away from their mess. Their management of the investigation into the death of Richie Barron in October 1996 was, in the words of Mr. Justice Morris, "prejudiced, tendentious and utterly negligent in the highest degree".

As Deputy Rabbitte pointed out, Superintendent Shelley has previous form. His track record smacks of incompetence and negligence concerning both the Kerry babies case and the Abbeylara affair. The transfer of five rank and file gardaí from Donegal to Dublin, which was heavily criticised by Mr. Justice Morris, lacks logic and precedent.

Surely the proper response of a concerned Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and, indeed, a concerned Garda Commissioner, should be to send the Morris report and relevant files to the Director of Public Prosecutions and await his decision, rather than signal to all the gardaí concerned that they are being let off the hook?

The Garda Síochána Bill is seriously flawed. Even if it was not flawed, however, it could not achieve what the Minister says it will. No legislation will effect fundamental reform of the Garda Síochána unless the gardaí and the public are brought into the process through consultation and engagement, and a new police culture of service is established.

Good policing is at the heart of crime prevention and crime detection. When the London metropolitan police force was established in 1829 its first commissioners, Rowan and Maguire, wrote:

Every member of the force must remember that his duty is to protect and help members of the public, no less than to apprehend guilty persons. Consequently, whilst prompt to prevent crime and arrest criminals, he must look upon himself as the servant and guardian of the general public and treat all law-abiding citizens, irrespective of their social positions, with unfailing patience, courtesy and good humour.

These sentiments mirror the views of Michael Staines, the first Commissioner of the Garda Síochána, who, in 1922, stated: "The Garda Síochána will succeed not by force of arms but by their moral authority as servants of the people." These were brave sentiments at a time when the Civil War had just started and armed men were roaming the country.

In addition to creating an unarmed police force, the founders of the State had got to the core of the issue. Their vision was that the new police would be guardians of the peace and servants of the people, gaining their moral authority from their service, no longer policing the community like the RIC they had replaced, but dutifully serving the community.

The Garda Síochána served the community well throughout most of the 20th century. However, at the beginning of the 21st century there is clearly need to reflect on the strengths and weaknesses of the force in a modern, urban, rapidly changing and complex society. Serious questions have been posed of the Garda Síochána in recent times, ranging from the present harsh criticism by Mr. Justice Morris of the behaviour of certain gardaí in Donegal, to the failure to tackle the spread of drugs nationwide, the declining crime prevention and detection rate and the rising clamour of public discontent regarding Garda professionalism and commitment. The Labour Party believes the time has come for a root and branch review of the role, structures and operations of the Garda.

It is time to establish an independent commission on policing in Ireland, similar to the independent commission on policing set up under the Good Friday Agreement in 1999 to create "a new beginning to policing in Northern Ireland with a police service capable of attracting and sustaining support from the community as a whole". Its terms of reference would require the identification and the setting up of new structures to ensure accountability independent scrutiny and, above all, partnership with the community.

The new independent commission's methodology would involve a comprehensive consultative process. A public debate on policing in the 21st century would be initiated and the commission would take that debate to the highways and byways of the country where it would engage local communities in parish halls the length and breadth of Ireland. Equally those professionally involved in policing at every level would be consulted and best international practice would be ascertained. Simply lecturing the Garda Síochána and enacting legislation will not lead to progress. Gardaí must be invited to come on board and engage in inclusive debate. As P. J. Stone of the GRA said yesterday, the approach must be holistic, not piecemeal.

The findings of the Patten commission on policing constitute a valuable resource and reservoir of material that can be drawn from and adopted. The consultation process is crucial. A lasting new police culture of service can only be delivered if a sense of participation, responsibility and ownership is engendered through the consultative process.

Deputy Rabbitte referred to the cosy cartel that is the relationship between the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda Commissioner and to the proposal in the programme for Government in 1982 to establish a Garda authority to act as a buffer to protect the Garda Síochána from any undue political interference on the one hand and the need for proper control and accountability on the other. Such a body would address planning, budgeting, reporting, promotions and oversee the administrative and effective management of the Garda Síochána.

In his first report Mr. Justice Morris decried "the promotion to senior ranks of persons who were unwilling or unable to give their vocation the energy and aptitude that it demands". Senior Garda promotional opportunities, in the gift of the Government of the day, are not the way forward for rewarding merit. The present Garda Síochána Bill will not change this procedure, despite what the Minister has said. In the same interim report, Mr. Justice Morris pointed out the total ignorance of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and his Department of what was happening in the Garda Síochána at any given time, that they were in the dark and entirely dependent on the information supplied to them from Garda headquarters and that they had no way of checking its accuracy or validity.

Deputy McDowell's response to Mr. Justice Morris's plea for proper oversight structures to be established was to introduce a Garda inspectorate, a body that would be the eyes and ears of the Minister, would be directed in its work by him and would report back to him. It would be the Minister's personal spy network within the Garda Síochána. In this proposal the Minister sees his role not as a policy-maker or legislator but as a sort of zealous despot. I assure him that nobody will be hated so much within the Garda Síochána nor damage Garda morale more than the body that will became known as "McDowell's inspectors". They will go into Garda folklore like the Broy Harriers of a different era.

In his first report, Mr. Justice Morris criticised the Minister's proposals for an ombudsman commission as "cumbersome and time consuming". Again in the current report, he returns to this important matter and states: "The Tribunal is much concerned by the lack of any independent body to receive legitimate concerns about Garda behaviour. The provisions of the Garda Bill need to be reviewed by the Oireachtas."

Unfortunately, the Minister intends to press on regardless with his heavily criticised three-person ombudsman commission. A multi-member commission lacks the clarity of identification and responsibility of a single person commission, lacks decision-making procedures and restricts independent access to Garda stations. It will have some gardaí conducting investigations into Garda wrongdoing. The proposed ombudsman commission is engulfed confusingly in a massive 50 sections of "dos" and "don'ts" in the Garda Bill and will only have a fraction of the resources and personnel allocated to the superb one-person ombudsman in Northern Ireland.

The old discredited Garda complaints body needs to be replaced by a robust, totally independent structure that can engage in investigations as well as receive complaints, that can look to past as well as to future transgressions and that is directed and led by a single ombudsman.

The work of an ombudsman would be all the easier if the 1979 recommendations of the Judge Barra O'Briain committee were implemented, namely, that all detention and questioning in Garda custody should be the subject of audio and video-recording. These valuable recommendations of a quarter of a century ago should be placed on a statutory and mandatory basis in either the Garda Síochána Bill or the forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill.

The Garda Bill is silent on education and training. The Minister can scarcely call the Garda Síochána Bill fundamental reforming legislation if he totally fails to address the training and educational needs of a modern police force. Education and training of Garda recruits have been carried out in Templemore college, County Tipperary since the formation of the State. Templemore has served the country well and is internationally respected for the quality of its work. It is located in a rural idyllic setting which is conducive to tranquil learning. The Minister has recently decided to provide a four-storey extension to enable the extra 2,000 gardaí to be recruited and trained over the next couple of years.

It is time we reviewed the role of Templemore as the sole centre for training and education for gardaí. An historic opportunity currently exists to locate a second Garda education and training centre in Grangegorman on the north side of Dublin. The Dublin Institute of Technology is building the largest third level college in the country on the site and the enabling legislation is currently going through the Oireachtas.

Thank God I did not come up with that suggestion.

A Garda Síochána college or a police academy could easily become the seventh faculty in the DIT. The 70-acre site has 30 acres of playing fields and will have a wide range of other sporting facilities. It is located in an inner city urban setting and reflects the general context of where most policing work is carried out in a modern Ireland that has rapidly changed from rural to urban in character. Garda students would mix and interact with their peers in other third level disciplines, not just with their trainee colleagues as currently.

The Grangegorman site is ideally located for in-service courses and for further education. Research studies in such areas as policing methods, crime statistics and criminology could be established and an integrated policy dimension could be added. It should be possible to share some facilities with the PSNI, to establish a link with the new police college in Northern Ireland and with police forces in Europe and elsewhere. A Garda college in Dublin would not replace Templemore, but rather add an extra dimension that would make the Garda Síochána a thoroughly modern and professional force in tune with best policing practice anywhere in the world.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law reform should seize the opportunity that now presents itself and undertake a root and branch review of the Garda Síochána. That is imperative.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"—conscious of the widespread and justified public disquiet at the findings of the first and second reports of the tribunal of inquiry into complaints concerning some gardaí of the Donegal division;

—appreciative of the work of Mr. Justice Morris and of the significance of his recommendations for the future operation of the Garda Síochána;

—noting in particular the tribunal's findings of serious wrongdoing and gross negligence on the part of certain members of the Garda Síochána in the Donegal division;

—convinced of the urgent need for reform of the framework of accountability and oversight of the Garda Síochána;

—recognises the comprehensiveness of the reform measures contained in the Garda Síochána Bill 2004;

—recalls the amendments made to the Bill by both Houses of the Oireachtas in their extensive review of its measures;

in particular welcomes the provisions of the Bill which will:

—establish a Garda Síochána ombudsman commission to independently investigate complaints against members of the force;

—establish a Garda Síochána inspectorate to independently assess the effectiveness and efficiency of the force; and

—establish local policing committees to enhance co-operation between the Garda Síochána and local authorities;

—acknowledges the commitment of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to propose amendments to further strengthen the Bill, in particular through the establishment of a duty on members of the Garda Síochána to account for their official acts; and

—supports the urgent passage into law of the Bill."

I listened with a degree of amazement and sadness to the contributions of Deputies Rabbitte and Costello because the one thing absent was any sense of balance or recognition of the contribution the majority of gardaí have made to this country.

That is unfair and untrue. The Minister should not go down that road.

Listening to some of the material, I felt the Garda had never received a more comprehensive thrashing from politicians than in the past 40 minutes.

Rubbish.

That is a classical distortion.

The Minister, without interruption.

I have addressed the Dean Lyons issue, to which Deputy Rabbitte referred. I have appointed Mr. Shane Murphy, Senior Counsel, to report on that matter.

Deputy O'Donoghue also appointed him.

I expect to receive his report in due course. I also want to respond to many of the points which were made about matters like the recording of statements made by persons in custody. As Deputy Costello has probably forgotten, it was made clear at a recent meeting of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights that 96% of statements are now recorded. I hope we can ensure soon that the other 4% of statements can be recorded. I will be quite happy to provide in the Criminal Justice Bill 2004 that the recording of statements should be a universal practice. I have no problem with that issue.

Opposition Members have made a concerted effort to suggest I have not consulted people about the process of reform. Nothing could be further from the truth. I refer Members to the Deloitte & Touche report about strategic management in the Garda, for example. When I took office, there was an agenda in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to put in place an independent complaints mechanism to replace the Garda Síochána Complaints Board. I decided a root and branch reconstitution of the Garda was needed.

I favour putting in place a single statute to restate the relationships between the Garda and the Executive, between the Garda and local communities, through the local authorities, and between the Garda and the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Garda Commissioner should become the force's accounting officer and therefore accountable to the committees of this House. Rather than being a cosy cartel, the relationship between the Commissioner and the Minister of the day should be transparent and based on written exchanges of directions and annual policing plans etc. All of these things are provided for in the Garda Síochána Bill and will come to pass when it becomes law.

They have not been done.

I find it rich that the Labour Party has suggested in its motion that I should not proceed with the Garda Síochána Bill, which was the subject of a process of consultation after its heads were published. The Bill has been changed significantly on foot of an extensive Second Stage debate in this House, lengthy consideration on all Stages in the Seanad and a Committee Stage debate of record duration at the Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. I have listened carefully to the points which have been made at all stages of that process. I have adapted the Bill, in line with the constructive points which have been made by way of criticism of it, to improve the legislation as best I can.

The Labour Party has suggested that I should put the Garda Síochána Bill, which was prepared in the context of the establishment of the Morris tribunal and has had to await the publication of the tribunal's two reports, on hold for 18 months. It has proposed that I should establish a commission and retain the Garda Síochána Complaints Board during that time. That proposal would involve the continuation of the current management deficit. It would mean the systems failures which have been identified would not be addressed while I wait for a group of the great and the good to come back after 18 months——

We did not say that.

——and tell me that what I am doing is the appropriate way forward.

The Minister is on the wrong track.

That is clearly what the Labour Party Deputies said.

No, we did not.

If the Labour Party wishes to establish a commission like the Patten Commission, when does it propose that it will report? The Labour Party Members should think about such matters.

We have thought about them.

I cannot and will not abdicate my obligation to bring about reform——

It is not reform.

——now, rather than at some future stage. I will not postpone that reform. I remind the House that the 1982-87 Government, which doubled the national debt during its five years in office, was elected with a mandate to establish a Garda authority.

I thought the Minister was a supporter of that Government.

It abandoned that idea because the then Minister, Deputy Noonan, believed it was an erroneous proposal. The Labour Party acquiesced in that abandonment. We need to set the record straight — the Labour Party did nothing at that time. It was elected after it promised to put in place a Garda authority, but it did nothing for five years. It had plenty of time to do many other things.

That was almost 25 years ago.

It walked away from the proposal to establish an independent police authority.

Ireland was a different place 25 years ago and the Minister knows it.

There is no point in shouting me down.

The Minister was the stoutest supporter of that Government.

I did not shout the Deputy down.

The Minister was in a different place at that time.

He was a major supporter of that Government.

Yes, he was.

The proposal to establish a Garda authority was carefully considered and abandoned by the Fine Gael and Labour Party Government of 1982-87.

The Minister should have given some advice on the matter when he was a member of Fine Gael.

I do not know why it has been resurrected now because the flaws which were clear in it then are clear in it now.

That was 25 years ago.

It is not the way forward. The idea that——

It was 25 years ago.

Yes, but nothing has been done since then.

Ireland was a different country.

The Minister was in a different party.

The Labour Party has been in office since then, but it has not attempted to establish a Garda authority again. The Labour Party was in office with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil in the 1990s, as Deputy Rabbitte will recall, but it did not attempt to resurrect this discredited idea before now. The establishment of an independent police authority would damage seriously the right of the Dáil to hold me accountable——

The Minister is not accountable.

——for the manner in which the Garda Síochána conducts its business.

The Minister was unable to get a report from the Garda.

That is what I am remedying now.

The Minister said he could not get a report.

The Minister could not get the report when he was Attorney General.

What chance would I have of getting a report if an independent authority was in place?

It could not be much worse than the current position.

The Minister could get the report because it would be prescribed in law.

I am now prescribing it in law. I am not waiting for Deputy Rabbitte or his commission to tell me to do that.

The Minister has waited for years.

I have not waited for years.

The Government has been in office for eight years.

I initiated this process of reform as soon as I was appointed as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I published consultation papers and engaged in consultation with the representative associations. I sent the heads of the Bill to the Irish Human Rights Commission, whose criticisms I later took on board. The process that has led us to where we are today is not as it was described by the Labour Party this evening — it is totally different. This process involves a Minister who is determined to bring about change, but is being challenged by a party that promised change but did sweet nothing when it had an opportunity to make changes. Although the Labour Party promised change, it did nothing.

Serious issues have been raised by the two reports of the Morris tribunal which have been presented to date. The first report referred to the matters in which Ms Sheenagh McMahon was caught up. It has been suggested that I let Ms McMahon down yesterday by failing to name her among the people who are due an apology. I said yesterday that I will apologise to all those who are victims of the Garda misbehaviour exposed in the reports of the Morris tribunal. I repeat that such people will be given the apology to which they are entitled in due course, after all the facts have been established. I am not making a tit-for-tat point——

You are.

——when I remind the House that the first set of events with which the Morris tribunal dealt took place between 1992 and 1995.

I hope the Minister is not reverting to that argument.

If there was a failure——

The Minister said he could not get it in 2002, so how can someone be said to be responsible in 1995?

The Deputy keeps shouting me down. If a systems failure permitted certain events to happen, that failure was present throughout that period. Political accountability, which I hold for the period in which I hold office——

Why does the Minister not resign?

——also attaches to those who held office between 1992 and 1995. It is a simple matter.

That is a fantastic proposition and the Minister knows it.

It is not a fantastic proposition. Deputy Rabbitte took a different view of the proposition when his pals, including Kevin Murphy, launched a report about political accountability yesterday. The Deputy wholly endorsed the notion of political accountability that was indicated on that occasion.

Of course I did.

It was perfectly consistent to do so.

The Labour Party, which promised an independent police authority but then abandoned that proposal during its five years in Government between 1982 and 1987 and never attempted to resurrect it during its further five years in Government between 1992 and 1997, is now criticising me for standing by that party's mature consideration that the idea was a bad one in the first place.

Things have changed.

The Minister's reforms are feeble.

I am glad that Deputy Rabbitte has said that my reforms are feeble. They are a hell of a lot better, if I may use that colloquialism, than nothing, which is what the Labour Party has ever done.

Rubbish.

I wish to inform the House that some amendments will be introduced on Report Stage in response to the reflective debates the House and the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights have had about the second Morris report. There will be a new statutory duty for members of the Garda to account for the manner in which they carry out their duties.

Big deal.

The Deputy may think it is a big deal.

Why was it not included in the original Bill?

Mr. Justice Morris also thought it was a big deal, because he remarked on its absence.

Every employee in Ireland is already accountable in the same way.

The Garda Commissioner will be in a position to dismiss members of the Garda Síochána of garda sergeant or inspector rank where the Commissioner has lost confidence in the capacity of that member to discharge his or her duty and where dismissal is considered necessary to maintain public confidence in the force. There will be a provision to strengthen the existing provisions in the Bill to oblige the Garda Commissioner to supply the Minister of the day with all information of significance relating to policing or security matters necessary for the Minister or other law officers of the State to discharge their functions, in a timely fashion. There will be a new provision providing for the strengthening of the existing Garda provision in the Bill on the accountability of the Garda Commissioner. It will make it clear that the Commissioner is fully accountable to the Minister and the Government.

There will be a strengthening provision in the Bill on the system of promotion in the Garda Síochána. That may be of some interest to the House because apparently it has not connected with everyone's understanding at this stage that the Bill currently provides for a system of independent promotion at every rank in the Garda Síochána and that the chairman and the majority of members of the promotions board must be persons other than gardaí. This is being strengthened and panels for the independent members will be Government appointed under the new provisions.

There will be a change in the appointment of the Garda audit committee to be established by the commission. There will be also a professional standards unit established within the Garda Síochána to enhance best practice and to assess on a constant internal basis whether professional standards are appropriate. There will also be a provision that one of the three-person commission will be appointed as chairperson so that there will be a visible figurehead for the ombudsman commission. There will be a statutory basis for Garda and community-based CCTV systems. Last, there will be a new power which will replace a broadly analogous but narrower power under the Dublin Police Act 1924 for the Minister to appoint a person to carry out special inquiries into any aspect of Garda administration, practice or procedure which gives rise to public concern.

All these strengthening measures have been taken as a fair response to the Morris commission's second report. They are in addition to the nine reports which the Deputy Commissioner, Peter Fitzgerald, has put in place on the material from the first report. A whistleblowers' charter will be provided in statute so that any member of the Garda Síochána can, in confidence, bring to the attention of an appropriate authority any misbehaviour or abuse of power of which that member becomes aware, and it must be dealt with.

Will the appropriate authority include a TD?

As the Deputy is aware, anyone can go to a TD. It is provided that the provision of information, even confidential information, to a TD or a Member of the Oireachtas does not breach the Garda's duty of confidentiality. This is already included in the Bill in statutory form.

I want to make it clear that this Bill is based on consultation and reflection on what went wrong. What went wrong fundamentally was that governance within the Garda Síochána became atrophied or ineffectual. Correspondingly, discipline disintegrated. Accountability became formalised and fossilised, with members feeling entitled to refuse accountability to their superiors and to have access instead to representative association advice or legal advice before answering straightforward questions about the manner in which they carried out their duty.

I made this point on the last occasion and I repeat it, these did not happen overnight. They must have been present in 1992-95 when the first——

What is the Minister's point?

My point is that these issues have been a long time coming and a long time ignored by politicians, and now that they are apparent, they are being dealt with by this politician, unlike other politicians who did nothing about it.

A tribunal of inquiry.

Is the Minister saying that his predecessor could intervene without the Carty report or any of the evidential-based information at the time? There are complaints by the bucket-load that go into the Minister's Department every week. Is he suggesting that some Minister should react off the top of his or her head to that?

I am not suggesting that. I thought I made the point frankly and fairly. I am not making that point.

The Minister comes back to it.

I am making a different point and if the Deputy cannot understand it, it is a reflection on his capacity to discharge his functions as a leader of a party. My point is different. It is not that every Minister for Justice must regard every fax and every letter as the reason to suddenly cause a massive inquiry into the Garda Síochána or that any Minister for Justice could sort through the hundreds of letters they receive every week and say, "There is a scandal I must stop immediately." That is an unfair standard to ask of the former Ministers for Justice, Nora Owen and Deputy O'Donoghue, or Deputy Michael McDowell.

The Minister spent a week broadcasting it in the national media.

I am not saying that, I am saying that the governance issues with which we are dealing and the atrophy of proper accountability within the force must have been present for at least the best part of two decades. I am the politician who is remedying it and there must be political accountability for all who held office, even in my party who were at the Cabinet table during some of these years, for the situation that existed at the time.

That was not the basis on which the Minister produced the letter. He tried to blacken the former Minister, Nora Owen.

(Interruptions).

Will the Minister yield?

On a point of order, has the Minister the floor?

He is being interrupted by Fianna Fail backbenchers.

If the point made yesterday by Kevin Murphy about the Department of Health and Children has any truth in that context, which appeared to have a lot of support from the Opposition benches today, it is equally true about Garda management. If there had been problems for 20 years plus, I cannot be politically accountable because I am dealing with them, any more than they were the political accountability of those who failed to deal with them, even though, as Deputy Rabbitte has helpfully pointed out to the House. the requirement for an independent police authority was apparent to his party from 1982, for five years, and they did not deliver one line or section of it. They walked away from it.

The issue is knowledge.

Does the Minister agree that the general philosophical political point he is making now about this dereliction being incipient in the Garda force for 20 years is not the point he promulgated alone and separately for a full week when he said that those with their knees under the Cabinet table in 1997 were responsible for the events in Donegal? This is what the Minister said and it is what he intended to say, which is a different point.

The Deputy made his point of information, which I reject. The point I wanted to make was that those who sat around the Cabinet table when the basic preconditions for what has been exposed in the Morris tribunal came to pass must share accountability for that with those who have since been in office when the matters came to light. They must accept that they are at least as culpable as yours truly, who is now remedying the situation whereas they failed to remedy it. They walked away from governance issues in the Garda Síochána for years. The Labour Party was ten years in office and it walked away from this issue and never delivered one line of it. That is what the record shows.

Where does that leave the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue?

That is what the record shows.

He has no answer to that question.

Mr. McDowell

I can answer all the points but I am trying to be orderly and speak through the Chair. The former Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, at all times——

He voted it down.

——wanted to have an inquiry and to have the truth emerge in regard to what happened in Donegal.

The law was changed.

He wanted it. He was advised at the time that because of pending jury trials——

The law was changed.

Yes, by me. He was advised that there was a difficulty and the law was changed to facilitate it in the wake of the Murphy report. The Deputy knows all about this. There is no point getting in a heap about it because that is what happened.

When did the Minister see the Carty report? When did Deputy O'Donoghue see it?

Deputy O'Donoghue will be in the House tomorrow night. Deputy Howlin can have his say then.

The House has a duty to ensure the Garda functions today, tomorrow, next week and next month to the highest standards and all of us share that duty. Now is the time to put in place a genuinely independent complaints system, a new framework for the governance of the Garda, an inspectorate to ensure there are high standards in the Garda, benchmarked to the best international practice and a whistleblower's charter. Now is the time to give the Garda the internal systems which will allow it to be responsive to the House, local authorities and to the community and to make statutory provision for the establishment of a reserve because Garda numbers matter and they must be increased in a society whose population is increasing and where criminality and its complexity is ever more demanding in terms of the force's resources and time.

But promises have been broken.

The notion that we should postpone or adjourn the process of reform to put it into the hands of a Patten-style commission is misconceived.

We did not say that.

The people are looking to the Government of the day to act in the matter and they are looking to the Opposition of the day to support good measures for the reform, reconstitution and strengthening of the Garda.

Today, tomorrow and the next day our streets must be policed. I cannot take the Garda to a test bench in a laboratory and fiddle around with it leaving a vacuum for weeks, months or perhaps a year while I experiment with reform and hold meetings around the country to decide what should happen.

I did not ask the Minister to do that.

The business of Government is to govern and the business of the House is to legislate. The time has come for delivery without more talk.

The Minister has been in Government for eight years.

My three years have been usefully spent on a consultative basis——

The Minister has been there for eight years.

I have not been in Government for eight years

Does the Minister admit he is a member of Government? He keeps talking about himself.

I remind Deputy Rabbitte for the fifth time that his party was in office for ten years after it made a binding electoral commitment to set up an independent police authority but it did nothing on foot of it.

We never held the justice portfolio.

I am in office three years. I have brought a Bill through a consultative process in the House and I am being asked by the Labour Party to walk away.

No, the Minister is not. That is a complete distortion.

I will not do it. I do not subscribe to the venal political habit of saying the Garda is a wonderful force, nobody should criticise it and reminding everybody about the thin blue line. I do not engage in such activity. I have had to take a fair amount of heat and flak regarding my proposals to reform the Garda. I have had to face criticism at every hand's turn for what I am doing but I am proud of the Garda and the huge majority of its members who carry out their functions in a professional, courteous way.

Would the force's sternest critics be willing to discharge the functions of an ordinary man or woman who enlists in the Garda for a week or a month? Would they go to the door of an accident victim's family and say a son or daughter has been killed? Would they stand guard while bodies lie on the ground for hours on end? Would they risk their lives at bank robberies or confronting armed subversives in our society? Many good gardaí have engaged in these activities and I want to give them leadership and constructive reform, not a thrashing in public for what they have or have not done.

I stand by the great majority who support the legislation I have introduced, even though it is a challenge for them. Many of their preconceptions will not merely be challenged but broken under the new regime that will unfold when the legislation is implemented. The Garda is our only police force and getting it from its present state, which is one of challenge and one in which failures have been exposed, back to where we want it to be — a force of which everybody is proud, in which is everybody has confidence and which is governed and manned to the highest professional standards — requires a balanced approach from this House to the question of reform.

The white heat of outrage is understandable in the context of the Morris tribunal reports, especially when one reflects, as Deputy Costello eloquently stated on the last occasion, that but for the grace of God, innocent people could be serving life sentences arising from one incident of wrongdoing that was discovered. The white heat of outrage must be tempered by the fact the force has served the country well. There are empty seats in the House but the force has taken the most appalling stick from people who hate this State and revile the Garda. They never lost an opportunity to dismiss or subvert the force and have on occasions taken the lives of its members.

The force has served the country well and the failings that have recently become apparent beyond contradiction must be corrected and addressed but a new police force will not be established and the Garda will not be swept away as something that can be discarded so that we can start again. We must go on with what is there, the bulk of which is a legacy of commitment, professionalism, courage and decency, which is the material to achieve reform. Leadership and a determination to bring about change is required from the Government, myself and the top gardaí. That, in turn, requires that we are moderate and balanced in our approach, that we are considered in how we go about the process of change and that we do not just lay all about us and dismiss and hack down things of value because it suits the political mood and the timing of the political calendar to posture on these issues as we approach the end of a Dáil session.

I have a heavy responsibility, which I intend to discharge. I intend to push the legislation through because it has taken long enough to get it to where it is now. This legislation has been adapted to meet the criticisms properly advanced about it. It will be the constitutional foundation of a decent police force and I make no apology for doing that. Wiser counsel in future might result in greater improvements and different solutions to a number of the issues with which I am grappling but if the golden thread of accountability of the police force through the Minister to this House, which is a thing of value, is substituted by something else more in accordance with the political demands of the minute, it will be lost.

I have heard people wonder if this will be adequate given that there will be different Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and considering some of the people who held that position in the past, but that is not a reason for ending political accountability through the Minister to the Dáil. It is a reason for ensuring that the person who holds the position of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is of the high standard expected of every office holder in the House. The Irish political elite, if we can describe ourselves as such, has done huge things in the past few years to ensure that misbehaviour is a thing of the past in Irish politics.

The Irish public is entitled to look to future generations of politicians to exercise accountability for the Garda Síochána in this House on the basis of the model put forward by our Constitution, which is ministerial accountability to elected representatives in this House and Garda accountability to committees of these Houses and, through the local policing committees, to local authorities. Those are the right steps. I am confident that the measures I have put forward contain the solution to the structural problems that exist and that they will provide the trellis against which different values will grow strongly, to provide us in the future with a decent police force of which we are proud.

This debate should not be about the ego of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell. The danger is that the overbearing arrogance of the Minister tends to submerge the issues. What are those issues? The Minister tends to question the motivation of Members on this side of the House, particularly of colleagues in the Labour Party, but he fails to accept the genuine view of Fine Gael, the Labour Party and virtually all Members of the House that we should have a police force that is reformed, has high morale, whose members have pride and confidence in their force and, above all, a force in which the public has pride and confidence. It is wrong of the Minister to question the motivation of those who put forward proposals which try to achieve that.

The Minister misrepresented the Labour Party in that he suggested it does not wish to see reform because it is putting forward a proposal for a policing commission, but nothing could be further from the truth. That is not in the Labour Party proposal. The Minister is making a serious mistake in not pausing and reflecting on the recommendations of the Morris tribunal and ensuring that the Garda Bill, when it passes, fully reflects the recommendations and advice of that tribunal. It is impossible for that to happen because the tribunal only produced its second report earlier this month but the Garda Síochána Bill is expected to be passed by the House, with all the amendments rushed through, within the next 72 hours. That is not the way to do business. I have been long enough in the House to know that rushed legislation is bad legislation.

This evening the fax machine in my office started clattering at 4 o'clock and produced pages of proposed new draft amendments from the Minister, some of which had not even been finalised by the parliamentary draftsman. These are the amendments we are supposed to discuss and put through Report Stage tomorrow morning. That is not the proper way to pass legislation. It certainly is not the way to deal with one of the great institutions of the State. We owe more to the members of the Garda Síochána, the vast majority of whom have served this country well through the years, than to treat them like this and to rush on to the Statute Book legislation containing amendments which were not given proper consideration or debate and on which there was no time to take proper advice.

The Minister should stall the Garda Bill and allow reasonable time for a proper review. Later this year the Bill can be passed after proper reflection and full debate. Instead, the Minister says: "I must show leadership", "I am determined" and "I will accept my responsibilities". It is an ego trip as far as the Minister is concerned. He spoke about the political calendar. It is not the Opposition that is concluding the proceedings of the House at the end of next week, the Government is doing so. The Minister cannot tell me that because the political calendar, designed by the Government, brings this House to a conclusion at the end of next week, we do not have time to debate properly the Garda Síochána Bill. He is wrong.

Let us discuss his proposals. He says he will appoint a chairman for the three-person Garda ombudsman committee, rather than have a single ombudsman. That is a total fudge. It makes no progress towards achieving the type of institution in which the gardaí and, more importantly, members of the public will have full confidence. There is no reason that the Minister cannot provide an ombudsman of the same type as exists in Northern Ireland. His current proposal of a three-person committee, even with a chairman, does not meet the overwhelming public demand for a single Nuala O'Loan type figure to investigate wrongdoing and deal with complaints.

It raises the suspicion that the Minister wants to have somebody on the committee who will represent the views of the Department and that, directly or indirectly, there will be an inside track into the committee to keep an eye on what it is doing. That is not what we want and it is not what the members of the Garda Síochána, with whom I have discussed this, want. They want it to be done properly, openly and independently. They do not want to be involved in investigating any of these complaints. They want everything to be above board, just as the Opposition and public do.

The strength of a single independent ombudsman was demonstrated again this week by Kevin Murphy, the former State Ombudsman, when he criticised the failure to allocate political responsibility for the nursing homes scandal. This was a strong statement by a strong independent person who is beholden to no Department, Minister or party. That is what is expected from Kevin Murphy and that is what he gave. It is what we get from Nuala O'Loan. Why can we not have the same with a Garda ombudsman? The revelations arising from the second report of the Morris tribunal demand that a single powerful and independent ombudsman be appointed. A three-person body, even with a chairman, simply remains a fudge.

It has long been Fine Gael policy to establish a commission on the Garda Síochána to examine the efficiency and accountability of the force. Events in Donegal and the recommendations of the second report of the Morris tribunal further highlight the need for this. The Minister misrepresented our colleagues in the Labour Party. I am not suggesting that reform can wait until we have the report of an independent commission. The Labour Party is suggesting, on the other hand, that we have a proper reform approach and a proper Garda Bill. At the same time, however, there is no reason that we should not have a policing commission.

The Government might claim that the Garda Síochána Bill will make a policing commission redundant, but I take the opposite view. The Garda Bill is the direct result of closed discussions within the policing loop of the Department, Garda headquarters and those associated with the Garda Síochána. The Garda Bill will provide improvements but it does not go far enough. In the meantime, the Government will not even accept the Morris report's recommendation that the Garda Bill be reviewed by the Oireachtas. The closest we came to a discussion of the report was a cursory series of statements last Friday, which clearly was not what Mr. Justice Morris had in mind. Last minute amendments which have not received proper consideration are not the answer.

As the Government insists on pushing through the Garda Bill in its present form, with only some amendments, the need for the independent commission proposed by the Labour Party is all the more urgent. Nobody but the most prejudiced observer would deny the enormous benefits resulting from the Patton commission on policing in Northern Ireland. Although the Republic has experienced different problems in policing, the problems are nevertheless significant. There must be a root and branch investigation, including an open and fair-minded examination of Mr. Justice Morris's recommendations. The judge has identified many of the most significant problems in the Garda but these issues must be dealt with in transparency and with accountability. Furthermore, the general public must have total confidence in the structure, role and powers of the complaints procedure. I doubt the measures the Minister proposes will command that level of confidence.

Neither the Government nor Mr. Justice Morris has touched on certain points, such as what we expect from members of the Garda Síochána. We expect efficiency and effectiveness, particularly when confronted with the reality of crime or anti-social behaviour. We also expect courtesy and civility, and want to ensure the Garda Síochána exercises the exceptional powers we give it with tact and diplomacy.

That raises the question of training members of the Garda Síochána. Does it include proper training in that kind of approach? It may not be ideal to segregate trainee gardaí from other young men and women so that they become part of the institutional structure of the Garda Síochána, without the possibility of the social interchange available in college. It may be time to take a more integrated approach to training gardaí. This is only one issue we should consider in the context of an independent commission on policing.

The Labour Party motion, which I support, covers these issues in broad detail. I also support some of the points in the Minister's amendment but he is seriously wrong when he urges us to recognise the comprehensiveness of the reform measures in the Garda Síochána Bill. He ignores Mr. Justice Morris's recommendation in that regard.

He is also wrong to ask us to welcome the provisions of the Bill to establish a Garda Síochána ombudsman commission. I doubt there is any support, even within the Garda Síochána, for the commission he proposes. He asks the House to acknowledge his commitment to propose amendments to strengthen the Bill. Is he serious? Report and Final Stages of the Bill start tomorrow morning and he asks us to welcome amendments which are not yet fully drafted. The Minister's ego has gone to his head if he expects us to support that kind of approach.

He has not dealt with the issue of accountability to Parliament and the Fine Gael proposal of a full-scale powerful security committee. He has not even looked at the sort of issues considered in other countries. It is salutary for us to examine what has happened elsewhere. We are not unique. There have been similar problems in other countries.

I looked at the report of the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service. The report of that commission reveals the extent to which this Government has failed the Garda Síochána by ignoring many important issues that should be examined before the Minister says he has done the job and introduced legislation that will clear up the problem once and for all. The royal commission considered leadership in the police force in New South Wales, its lack of direction and openness, and the inadequate focus of the staff. The report also covers the process of reform and the professionalism, or lack of it, within the force; systems, procedures and police culture; how the police force is involved in different types of law enforcement, including areas in which it was specifically involved and some in which it should not be involved; and the organisational and managerial structure of the police service. There has been no open debate in this House or elsewhere on the organisational structure of the Garda Síochána.

The commission also considered suggestions for a revised chain of command, the question of deployment, and police and crime rates. It examined the various agencies within the force, another topic we have not discussed. These include the special branch, crime agencies, and others within the New South Wales police force. It considered employment, recruitment, entry and retirement ages, the question of non-executive officers, and issues such as the terms in contracts of employment and lateral entry. These are examples of the preliminary issues examined for that report.

It also looked at management, leadership training, ethics and integrity, responsibility for education and training, and discussed promotions and transfers and reform of those procedures. The commission considered what is done for police injured on duty, civilian support, administrative services, salaries and allowances, and secondary employment. I have merely touched on the index to identify some of the issues the royal commission considered.

I cannot accept the Minister telling us that because he has issued the second report of the Morris tribunal, and will rush through a few amendments to the Garda Síochána Bill, he has completed the job of reforming the Garda Síochána. He must accept this is not the right way to complete this job. It is important to ensure the Garda Síochána is as good as it can be. We owe that to the 12,000 members of the force, most of whom serve the country well, and all of whom will do so when the Bill is implemented.

I wish to have confidence in the Bill and be satisfied that the types of structures established will achieve the kind of effective organisation we all want. The general public must also have full and complete confidence in that Bill. The revelations from Donegal have badly dented that confidence. The Minister does not understand the depth of public concern arising from that loss of confidence.

While the Garda Síochána Bill and a policing commission are linked, the commission does not have to delay the completion of the Bill. The timetable should be that the final Stages of the Bill are postponed until after the recess when its terms would be completely examined. Deputy Kenny made a sensible proposal in that regard, namely, that there be an outside examination of the Bill to ensure it incorporates all the recommendations of the Morris report.

If the Minister does this my party will offer a constructive input in the autumn to ensure a revised Bill is put in place to achieve our aims. I suppose I should warn him that I am very much against the complaints committee about which he is talking, which he calls an ombudsman commission but which is no such thing. I feel very strongly about that. I am also very much against section 75, which precludes a member of the Garda Síochána from complaining. However, those are issues we can talk through, and I hope, in the course of time, we can convince the Minister, particularly if there is an outside view on it.

Having completed that timetable and got the Garda Bill in place before the end of this year, we will still need the commission on policing, since so many aspects have not been considered in the context of the debate on the Garda Bill. We also want to see how the changes made in the Garda Bill bed down and whether the objectives outlined have been achieved by it. In many ways, the ideal timing would be to have the commission on policing sitting when the Garda Bill has been put in place so that it can assess its effectiveness. Then, as suggested by the Labour Party, there would be the possibility, after the 18-month period mentioned, to come back, make a full report, and bring the whole operation one stage further. The Garda Síochána itself would be completely happy with that, and above all, it would have the full confidence of the general public. That is the way forward, and I commend it to the Government.

Debate adjourned.
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