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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Jun 2005

Vol. 605 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 13, Social Welfare Consolidation Bill 2005 — First Stage; No. 14, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a report by the Minister for Defence pursuant to section 4 of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1993, back from committee; No. 27, Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005 — Report and Final Stages (resumed); No. 1, Disability Bill 2004 — amendments from the Seanad; and No. 28, Veterinary Practice Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m.; Nos. 13 and 14 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on the resumed Report and Final Stages of No. 27 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; and the proceedings on No. 1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m. and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 56, motion re G8 summit and overseas development aid.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed?

Mr. Rabbitte

I do not wish to record my point in this manner but there is no other parliamentary procedure for so doing. What happened last week was as big a shambles as I have ever seen in the House. Deputies were required to vote——

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise at this stage. The question is whether the Deputy opposes the late sitting.

Mr. Rabbitte

My point is directly connected. We had to come into the House to vote on something and we did not even know, with the number of items of different coloured paper that had been circulated by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform——

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter does not arise at this stage.

Mr. Rabbitte

If the Ceann Comhairle wants me to explain the reason I am opposed to the proposal, I will do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must have some sort of order on the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

On Friday night, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, blamed the Ceann Comhairle and the staff of the House because the amendments were not disseminated. Anybody who knows anything about the Bills Office, knows that its staff are the most industrious in the House. I am sure I need not labour the point or say how distressed I was that the Minister should reflect on the Ceann Comhairle's efficiency

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat as he is out of order. As he is opposed to the late sitting, I will put the question.

Mr. Rabbitte

I just wanted to place on record the disquiet caused to me over the weekend by the Minister's decision to reflect on the Ceann Comhairle's deficiency, which was unfair in the circumstances.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

Question, "That the late sitting be agreed to," put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 and 14 without debate agreed?

Mr. Kenny

On No. 14, when does the Government expect to make an announcement about Ireland's participation in the battle groups referred to under the Department of Defence proposal?

The Taoiseach

As I stated previously, the matter is under examination but it will take considerable time. It will not arise for a number of months. We have not opted in or out at this stage, we must consider how we can participate if we are to go down that road. Many countries have already declared that they are looking at the major infrastructural issues and we must assess if we can usefully do it. It will be some time before we complete our assessment.

Mr. Kenny

Will it be this year or next year? I heard on a radio programme last week that the Minister for Defence, Deputy O'Dea, got an award for straight talking. How long will this assessment take? Will the Minister for Defence indicate whether we are in or out?

Mr. Stagg

Will the Taoiseach explain why the First Stage of a Bill is being introduced without debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Sargent.

Mr. Stagg

Do I not get an answer?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am taking questions on the same proposal together, as is the standard practice, and we will then hear from the Taoiseach.

Mr. Stagg

I have no problem with that.

Mr. Sargent

The Ceann Comhairle will be aware that it is also standard practice to oppose the taking or lumping together of items as if they are of no consequence. He should take into account that the Green Party does not regard it as satisfactory to take No. 14, which has just come back from committee. This item is a significant defence motion which must be considered and our giving it the nod takes for granted the Government's thinking on the matter, something it has not made clear. I ask that the Minister for Defence make a clear statement in the House and that we debate the matter.

The Taoiseach

The Minister hopes to be in a position to do that at the end of the summer, so it will happen when the House returns in the autumn.

In reply to Deputy Stagg, the Social Welfare Consolidation Bill passed First Stage and was sent to committee, as has happened since the first consolidation Bill in 1980. The motion will just move it into committee in order that the matter can be dealt with during July and September, when committees will continue to meet.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 and 14 agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 27, conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005, agreed?

Mr. Gilmore

The Labour Party is opposed, on two grounds, to a guillotine being imposed on the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, which will revise Dáil constituencies. As a matter of principle, the Government should not use its majority, in the form of a guillotine, to enact legislation on the revision of constituencies because the latter are at the heart of our electoral and democratic system.

Furthermore, we cannot adopt the proposal before the House. On Report Stage on 16 June, the House agreed to recommit section 3 in order to address an issue I raised, namely, the likelihood that it will emerge from the census in 2006 that, on foot of an increase and change in the location of population, significant revision of Dáil boundaries will be required. If the election is held after the publication of the census figures in 2006, it may give rise to legal proceedings and constitutional questions in respect of the Bill. The recommitted Committee Stage of section 3 is still in progress. The House adjourned without concluding the Committee Stage debate on section 3 and it is not possible to make an order for the resumed Report and Final Stage of the Bill until the Committee Stage debate is concluded.

An Ceann Comhairle

On the Deputy's second question, it has been agreed to recommit amendment No. 1 for discussion in the House.

Mr. Gilmore

Yes.

The Taoiseach

On the first question, we have tried during this session not to guillotine Bills. The guillotine has been applied in very few instances in recent months. There has been an extensive debate on this matter and the legislation emanates from an independent body. The Government has given adequate time to something we have all accepted as a fait accompli from the outset.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 27, conclusion of Report and Final Stages of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2005, be agreed."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 76; Níl, 58.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 1, Disability Bill 2004, amendments from the Seanad, agreed to?

Mr. Kenny

I am opposed to No. 1 being guillotined in this fashion. I also note that former Mr. Justice Fergus Flood has stated the Bill should be torn up and that the Dáil should legislate in a proper manner for an issue of such importance. Hence, I oppose No. 1 being brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m.

Mr. Rabbitte

I share that sentiment. The disability movement——

Mr. Kelleher

The Deputy is bluffing well.

Mr. Rabbitte

——which is extremely distressed that, after the collapse of the first Disability Bill under the previous Government, this one is——

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte should be allowed to speak without interruption.

Mr. Rabbitte

I also oppose the moving of this Bill.

Mr. Sargent

The Green Party once again opposes the guillotining of the Disability Bill. It asks the Ceann Comhairle and the Government to have regard to the significant meeting that took place last night in Limerick and the ongoing strength of feeling around the country, not least because the Minister has indicated that he believes in the virtues of inequality. It is absolutely essential that we go back to the drawing board in respect of the Bill and put the requisite rights-based legislation in place. To proceed on this basis is to do a disservice to this House and people with disabilities.

Mr. McCormack

It will be third time lucky.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I also record Sinn Féin's opposition to the proposal that we proceed with the 33 amendments which are broadly technical in nature and do absolutely nothing to address the fundamental flaws in the Disability Bill identified by the disability legislation consultation group, a body established by the Government. Hence, it is absolutely bizarre that the House is proceeding with the legislation which has proceeded through both Houses and is now back in the Dáil. As I stated, there are 33 amendments, none of which addresses any of the substantive inadequacies of the Bill in meeting the needs of people with disabilities. Sinn Féin would have been happy to address the Bill on its return from the Seanad if the amendments reflected the recommendations of the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities but sadly that is not the case. Accordingly, we must oppose this proposal.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 1, amendments from the Seanad to the Disability Bill 2004, be agreed."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 76; Níl, 54.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mr. Kenny

I wish to ask the Taoiseach three questions. First, in respect of the Morris tribunal, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised a ringing apology to the McBrearty family. When can the House expect to hear it?

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

Legislation was introduced to set up the Morris tribunal and there are serious consequences in respect of that legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter does not arise. What is the Deputy's second question?

Mr. Kenny

The bogus confession is a serious and central issue for the tribunal. Before the House rises, will it hear statements from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform giving the ringing apology to the McBrearty family to which he has committed himself on the issue of the bogus confession?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business. Does the Deputy have a third question?

Mr. Kenny

My second question pertains to the ongoing negotiations between the European Union and the United States on an open skies policy. Will the Taoiseach fund a professional study on the impact on the mid-west and west region? Some 40,000 people are employed by American companies in that region.

When will we see the natural gas regulation Bill which was expected to be published in 2005? Will the Government take an interest in the fact that tomorrow a number of people face jail sentences because of confusion and lack of clarity in respect of the Government policy being implemented in regard to the Corrib gas field?

The Taoiseach

I will raise the issue of Shannon with the line Minister. The natural gas regulation Bill will give effect to the restructuring of the natural gas industry. It is being drafted and is due in the first half of next year.

Mr. Rabbitte

When is it proposed to bring the Abbotstown Campus Development Authority Bill before the House? I remind the Taoiseach of his commitment that the work permits Bill would be through the House this session, but it has not even been published. Obviously, it will not be moved in this session so will the Taoiseach indicate when it will be published?

The Taoiseach

The Abbotstown Campus Development Authority Bill will be brought before the House in the autumn session. I said we would try to take the work permits legislation this session but it will be published tomorrow and will be taken in the autumn session.

Mr. Sargent

Is the Government contemplating any amendment to the prompt payments legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business? There are a number of Deputies offering and we cannot go on too long.

Mr. Sargent

The diplomatic relations and immunities amendment Bill is on the minds of people, particularly since the husband of Ingrid Betancourt, the presidential candidate in Colombia, is in the Public Gallery. She had been in captivity for over 40 months and is one of thousands in that situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on to the next question.

Mr. Sargent

Is that a matter on which the Government will allow statements? Will the legislation be published to allow us to debate such matters?

The Taoiseach

That Bill was approved by the Cabinet today and it will be published shortly.

Mr. Naughten

In light of the fact that An Bord Altranais deals with applications by nurses for registration, when will we see the relevant promised legislation because it now takes up to eight months to process applications for registration? There is a shortage of nurses in this country.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if the Deputy did not make a statement.

Mr. Naughten

The situation is crazy.

The Taoiseach

The legislation is being drafted but I do not have a date as to when it will be ready.

Ms McManus

Yesterday the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children caved in cravenly to the demands of the health insurance company, BUPA.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Ms McManus

I have. It is important because we will see a continuation of a windfall profit going to a UK national because of the Minister's failure to introduce risk equalisation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot make a statement. If she does not have a question, we will move on to Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Ms McManus

In regard to promised legislation, the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children has been processing amendments to the health insurance regulation Bill which will be taken in the House on Thursday without debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is Thursday's business.

Ms McManus

The situation has changed dramatically. Will the Taoiseach ensure a debate in this House——

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise at this stage.

Mr. Rabbitte

We are giving the House notice.

Ms McManus

——about the extraordinary failure to introduce protection and safeguards for subscribers to health insurance——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made her point.

Ms McManus

——which has been recommended by an independent expert authority?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would like to facilitate some of the Deputy's colleagues. There are a number of ways to raise the matter.

Ms McManus

Will we have a debate in the House on this important issue? I want that question answered by the Taoiseach now.

The Taoiseach

No debate has been promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

On the Order of Business the Deputy may ask a question only on promised debates. I ask Deputy McManus to resume her seat and allow her colleagues to ask questions.

Ms McManus

What is the point in having an expert authority established by this House——

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy McManus does not resume her seat we will have to move on to the next business.

Ms McManus

——if the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children disregards the need——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to allow her colleagues to ask questions.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

If a debate is not scheduled, will the Taoiseach accommodate an opportunity for the House to debate the mid-term review of the national drugs strategy?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Is a debate scheduled or will the Government accommodate such a debate?

The Taoiseach

No debate has been promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Naughten.

Mr. Naughten

I already asked a question but perhaps the Taoiseach will answer it this time.

Mr. Timmins

Regrettably, there was another fatality on the N81 at the weekend. When will the strategic national infrastructure Bill be before the House so we can debate funding for this road, which is the most dangerous in the country?

The Taoiseach

The Bill will be before the House in 2006.

Mr. Stagg

Given the highly regrettable decision by RTE to end the long wave transmission of sporting occasions to Britain, will the Taoiseach indicate when the broadcasting authority Bill will be before the House and if it will deal with this issue?

The Taoiseach

It will be before the House next year.

Dr. Cowley

The legislation in which I am interested is that which will protect those people who will have a high pressure gas pipeline beside their houses and who will be thrown in jail because they are in fear of their lives——

An Ceann Comhairle

The natural gas regulation Bill has been dealt with.

Dr. Cowley

This pipeline will be located beside these people's homes and they have no choice but to live in them. They just want to get on with their lives but they face the threat of being sent to jail.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Cowley should take a lesson from Deputy Stagg on how to ask an appropriate question on the Order of Business.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Hogan

The Taoiseach's brother, the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Noel Ahern, promised in the Seanad in 2004 the stage payments Bill to abolish stage payments. When will this Bill be published?

The Taoiseach

It is not listed. I will consult the Minister of State.

Mr. Hogan

It is on his list, the never, never list.

Mr. Broughan

This is a postscript to Deputy Stagg's question. When does the Taoiseach intend to appoint the RTE authority or is he waiting until the holiday weeks in July to make the announcement? On a number of occasions last week, the Ceann Comhairle steadfastly refused to allow me raise by way of Adjournment debate the situation of the An Post pensioners and workforce who have not received their delayed payments for the past two and a half years.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has communicated with the Deputy.

Mr. Broughan

The Chair communicated with me twice.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is the reason the Deputy cannot raise the issue in the House.

Mr. Broughan

The Ceann Comhairle allowed me to raise the issue before Christmas. The postal service is collapsing.

Mr. Gormley

Last week I was promised I would get the full list of nursing homes which were found deficient.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Gormley

It relates to the Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill. That Bill may help us get information because the Government is intent on covering up everything it can.

The Taoiseach

The Bill will be introduced in early 2006.

Mr. Durkan

In the absence of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, will the Taoiseach indicate when the national oil reserves agency Bill might appear, given the rapidly escalating oil prices? When will the energy Bill, which is a mute subject at present, appear? The Minister is a bit shy about coming into the House. We may have offended him, but will the Taoiseach give us an update on the legislation?

The Taoiseach

The heads have been approved by Government. The Bill will be drafted and it should be ready by the autumn session.

Mr. Durkan

Is that the case with both Bills?

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