Vol. 608 No. 3
1 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the progress made to date by the quality customer service working group within his Department established under the strategic management initiative; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24234/05]
2 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the progress of his Department’s quality customer service working group under the strategic management initiative; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30207/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
The quality customer service working group was established in 1999 to oversee the development of the quality customer service initiative. This initiative has been, and remains, an important and proactive element of the modernisation programme for the Civil Service. The working group, which reports to the implementation group of secretaries-general, is currently chaired by Mr. Frank Daly, Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, and includes representatives from Departments and offices, Civil Service unions, business, consumer and equality interests.
The working group performs an important role in developing policies to ensure improvements in the level of service that the public receives from the Civil Service. It has overseen a significant amount of progress since 1999, through its own work programme and through its sub-groups and networks.
Central to this work has been the creation of customer service action plans and the recent publication of customer charters, which set out the levels of service that customers can expect. Customer charters have now been produced in all Departments and offices, and an external assessment of this process will take place in 2006. Departments and offices are also required to evaluate in their annual reports progress made on their customer charters.
There are a number of other groups involved in the quality customer service area. The quality customer service officers' network is central to delivering service improvements in Departments and offices. The network meets regularly and acts as a communications vehicle for all Departments and offices to promote quality service and to exchange information on best practice and initiatives. There are also a number of other sub-groups which address specific issues as required.
It should be acknowledged that improvements in the level of customer service ultimately depend on the commitment of management and staff at the level of each Department and office. I have no doubt that this is the case and all the progress to date supports this view.
The quality customer service working group, and its sub-groups and networks, have helped to deliver significant improvements in recent years and will ensure further improvements in the future.
I detect the Taoiseach has a slight cold after his exertions in Killarney.
I had it even before I got there.
Westerly weather. The strategic management initiative deals with the modernisation of the Civil Service and that obviously affects all Departments and offices. I understand that a number of specific aims included customer support, computer-based service delivery and expenditure management. Surveys were carried out in 1997 and 2002. Has any survey been carried out since then?
In respect of the Taoiseach's Department, now that benchmarking has been paid and following the strategic management initiative, will the Taoiseach outline one or two specific areas where he sees a distinct improvement in customer service? The Civil Service inherently wants to provide the very best level of service to the public. Does the Taoiseach detect specific improvements in terms of the service given to customers from within his Department?
As Deputy Kenny said, two reports were undertaken, the last one in 2002. The next one is due before the end of this year. The Department has already tendered for a company to undertake the report. The aim is to target the questionnaire at those who use the Department, both individuals and outside agencies. The findings of the previous report regarding services were subsequently implemented.
A range of improvements have taken place in my Department. The two greatest areas of change relate to progress in human resources development and the adoption of a financial management system. Prior to this, the Department did not have a human resources plan. This was agreed with staff through the benchmarking process. The financial management system is a very detailed one. Effectively, it is a cost centre base of where money goes, including expenses, phone calls and every level of detail. Equally, arrangements on working hours, breaks, lunchtime, starting earlier and working later in Departments which require this have been worked out effectively. The main section of my Department now works from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., which means a service is provided throughout the day.
During the EU Presidency, the staff effectively operated on a seven-day week basis. They got overtime allowances. This is not usual practice but it was essential during the EU Presidency because of other offices which operated in different time zones. The kind of flexibilities that would have been difficult in the past are now possible, certainly in my Department.
I thank the Taoiseach for that reply. It is not that I want to know every detail but on the issue of financial management, is it in respect of current or past spending? In the case of the e-Cabinet initiative, which was implemented in the Taoiseach's Department, is there any analysis of expenditure before it happens, or any analysis that might be consequential on a project being undertaken? Does the financial management section of the Department consider the projected cost and monitor the roll-out of projects such that it can avoid the circumstances that obtained in many Departments, as have been highlighted recently?
On the e-Cabinet project, there was an initial budget of €5 million, which was an estimate based on the other work done in the Department. Obviously, it included the consultancy work on the design and framework of the project, which was required to set it up. The project is being rolled out and the early elements of the plan, which amount to a quite significant number, have been completed. There are more to complete and the budget of €5 has not yet been spent. I believe the next significant element will be rolled out in January. Thereafter, further developments of the system, which are envisaged and which will be very useful, will have to be costed before they are commenced.
Financial management personnel set out a detailed plan at the start and received a quote of what they would be likely to spend. I believe this was €5.1 million or €5.2 million and that spending to date is just short of €4 million. The next phase of the work will bring spending close to the estimate, and if they proceed to other phases, these will have to be costed.
In most of the areas, and certainly in respect of the human resources developments and the financial services, cost outlays were estimated. They come in spot-on, but I cannot say if this is true in every case as it depends on the amount of development work involved. They are not hugely costly in my case. The relevant officials made an assessment and tried to engage in an ongoing analysis to ensure they were spending within their limit.
The new financial management system in the Department is very detailed and has the benefit of being able to provide very detailed accounts on a monthly basis, not just to the accounting officers but also to the section in the Department. The matter is very detailed and, to be frank, I do not get involved in it much, but it does produce the relevant detail for the individuals concerned. It makes their job more meaningful because they see exactly the costs being incurred in the Department.
Bearing in mind that we are just dealing with the Taoiseach's Department, can I confirm from him that the aim of the strategic management initiative, which affects all Departments and offices, is to make improvements in customer support, computer-based service delivery and expenditure management? If that is the case, how can he reply to the question on progress without referring either to the use of consultants or decentralisation? Does he not agree that these are a fundamental part of the outcome of the initiative? In that context, given that the Taoiseach has stated Departments should not be using so many consultants, is it part of the strategic management initiative that there will be a review of the number of consultants and the cases in which they are used? The Department of the Taoiseach contracted outside expertise 60 times since 2000 alone, which amounts to one contract per month. Will this practice change?
The evaluation of the strategic management initiative carried out by PA Consulting Group cost €21,000 more than the estimate of €471,036. Can the Taoiseach explain why this was the case? Was there no fixed price? Has any mechanism been put in place to avoid overcharging such that the Department of the Taoiseach can give an example to other Departments that have been scandalous in this regard?
This practice is demoralising the Civil Service. How many of the Taoiseach's officials are applying for decentralisation? This is another——
That does not arise under this question.
I am sorry to disagree but the strategic management initiative is about the modernisation of the Civil Service. The Government is known for its use of consultants with a view to bringing about decentralisation. Is the progress of the initiatives in question being followed?
I will answer a question later about the number and grades of officials involved in decentralisation.
Decentralisation will not create difficulties for customer service standards. Various working groups have considered how to deal with this issue and have done some excellent work on it. There is plenty of experience to work with because decentralisation has been a successful practice in the Civil Service for 15 years and the groups are used to dealing with the process. They are considering how it will operate in the future when other Departments move, which I am confident will happen equally successfully.
I answered a parliamentary question last week on the number of contracts in my Department and if the Deputy wishes to put down a particular question I will give him the full details. Most of the contracts have come either from social partnership or the information society group. There will be no change in that. The Department does not have, and would never employ, the expertise to undertake reports and surveys on Sustaining Progress or any other programme. Such surveys will always come from outside the Department. We do not have specialists in those areas and would not have enough work to employ them full-time so I would not recommend taking them on.
The Deputy can see from the list that most of the contracts in my Department came in on, or in many cases under, budget.
What about PA Consulting Group? What is the reason for that?
If the Deputy puts down a detailed question I will give a detailed reply. I do not have the information here.
Did the Taoiseach have incremental reform such as this in mind when he headlined his intention to reform the public service at his party's Ard-Fheis in Killarney? When I asked him last week if he agreed with the views of his Secretary General he said he did not think they were feasible. He then listed the practical obstacles to the kind of reform proposals the Secretary General advocated in Kenmare. Does the Taoiseach have any major proposals in this area or had he this kind of reform in mind?
These questions refer specifically to the Taoiseach's Department.
Significant progress has been achieved. I was outlining some of the many other areas in which there is work to do. We are getting into the next round of benchmarking and, as I have stated inside and outside the House, there has been a demand that the next round should be transparent and we should endeavour to achieve further reforms in the public service through that process.
All Departments, including mine, are examining the areas where reform of the public service will be beneficial. In the last round this was verified independently but when we go into a new benchmarking round it is only right that we should seek reforms and efficiencies on behalf of the public that work differently and more efficiently and extend the service. These are the types of reforms being worked out across Departments so that we can get value for money. The Minister for Finance has outlined his programme in this area in some detail. These are the issues with which we want to engage, and will do, in the benchmarking process which is about to start.
I did not hear any tangible proposal in that response. Is it the Taoiseach's intention that another round of benchmarking goes ahead irrespective of whether there is a new social contract?
I hope the present difficulties regarding the social contract can be resolved. I understand the Irish Congress of Trade Unions at its meeting today is seeking clarification following the letter I gave to its representatives after the meeting last Thursday night. I am open to engagement on that issue. Clearly I cannot resolve the issues prior to negotiations but will attempt to do so following the clarification.
Even if there were no social contract, the State would have to engage with its own staff, the public service, and either way the benchmarking round would have to be dealt with. That would be an obligation for the State.
Does the Taoiseach agree he has not addressed the main issue at the heart of the possibly temporary collapse——
We are moving well away from Questions Nos. 1 and 2.
Everybody finds this matter very interesting. If we carry on talking about the strategic management issue and so on, all our guests will leave. This is a fascinating topic.
Unfortunately the Chair is constrained by the Standing Orders. Questions Nos. 1 and 2 are very specific. Deputy Rabbitte has already been allowed two supplementaries. This matter can be raised in another manner.
I accept that. I wanted to ascertain if the Taoiseach accepts that displacement is the real issue which has created the problem regarding the social partnership talks getting under way again.
I suggest the Deputy raises the matter in another way because in fairness to the House, if the issue is to be debated in a meaningful way, it should get some time, which we cannot give it in dealing with these two questions.
I accept the Ceann Comhairle's ruling, as I always do.
Will the Taoiseach advise us on the make-up of the quality customer service working group, the numbers of people serving, whether the group has consumer representation and the group's gender balance?
The group includes representatives of Departments and offices, Civil Service trade unions, other social partners and customer organisations, the Consumers Association of Ireland, the Small Firms Association, the National Disability Authority, the Disability Federation, the IPA, the Equality Authority, the consultative committee on racism and inter-culturalism, the Northern Ireland Civil Service and others.
The main group meets twice annually or more often if necessary. The sub-groups meet on a regular basis. Some of those dealing with specific issues meet very regularly. Much of the work involving the more specific issues goes through the officers' network group, which also has a high-level working group. This group reports mainly to the committee of Secretaries General. Mr. Frank Daly, Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, is the current chairman of that committee though the position rotates.
Currently, the quality customer service group is conducting meetings which consider customer and consumer issues. They take the latter fully into account.
What of the gender balance?
I do not know, but there are many Department officials there, men and women.
3 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the appointments made by him since June 2002 to State boards or other agencies under his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24237/05]
4 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the appointments which he has made to State boards or other agencies since January 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25192/05]
5 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the appointments made by him since 2002 to boards or agencies operating under the auspices of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26559/05]
6 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the appointments to State boards and other agencies made by him since June 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27683/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, together.
The information sought by the Deputy concerning the names of the persons appointed by me since June 2002 to State boards and agencies under my Department's aegis, namely the National Statistics Board, the Law Reform Commission, the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, the National Economic and Social Council and the National Economic and Social Forum, is set out in a schedule which I am circulating with the Official Report for the information of the House.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House.
Boards and Agencies under the aegis of the Department of the Taoiseach
1 The National Statistics Board
2 The Law Reform Commission
3 The National Centre for Partnership and Performance, NCPP
4 The National Economic and Social Council, NESC
5 The National Economic and Social Forum, NESF
|
State Board/Agency |
Position Held |
Name |
Organisation |
Date of Appointment |
|
National Statistics Board |
||||
|
Mr. Frank Cunneen |
Health and Safety Authority |
February 2004 |
||
|
Mr. Ciarán Dolan |
ICMSA |
February 2004 |
||
|
Ms Paula Carey |
ICTU |
February 2004 |
||
|
Ms Marian Harkin |
Teacher |
August 2001 |
||
|
Ms Mary Doyle |
Department of the Taoiseach |
February 2004 |
||
|
Professor Brendan Walsh |
University College Dublin |
February 2004 |
||
|
Dr. Pat O’Hara |
Western Development Commission |
February 2004 |
||
|
Mr. Derek Moran |
Department of Finance |
July 2003 February 2004 |
||
|
Law Reform Commission |
||||
|
Commissioner (Full-time) |
Patricia T. Rickard-Clarke, |
Solicitor |
Reappointed 30 September 2004 |
|
|
Commissioner (Part-time) |
Professor Finbar McAuley, BCL, LLB, MPhil, LLD, |
Jean Monnet Professor of European Criminal Justice, UCD |
reappointed 1 September 2004 |
|
|
President |
Mrs. Justice Catherine McGuinness |
Judge of the Supreme Court |
22 February 2005 replaced Hon. Mr. Justice Declan Budd |
|
|
Marian Shanley |
Solicitor |
re-appointed 12 November 2004 |
||
|
National Economic and Social Council |
||||
|
Chairperson |
Dermot McCarthy |
Secretary General Department of the Taoiseach |
September 2003 |
|
|
Deputy Chairperson |
Mary Doyle |
Assistant Secretary Department of the Taoiseach |
September 2003 |
|
|
Trade Union Pillar Nominees |
||||
|
Dave Begg |
General Secretary, ICTU |
September 2003 |
||
|
Peter McLoone |
General Secretary, IMPACT |
September 2003 |
||
|
Manus O’Riordan |
SIPTU |
September 2003 |
||
|
Joan Carmichael |
ICTU |
September 2003 |
||
|
Jack O’Connor |
SIPTU |
September 2003 |
||
|
Sally Ann Kinahan |
ICTU |
January 2004 (replaced Joan Carmichael) |
||
|
Business and Employer or Organisation Pillar Nominees |
||||
|
Brian Geoghegan |
IBEC |
September 2003 |
||
|
John Dunne |
CCI |
September 2003 |
||
|
Liam Kelleher |
CIF |
September 2003 |
||
|
Brendan Butler |
IBEC |
September 2003 |
||
|
Aileen O’Donoghue |
IBEC |
September 2003 |
||
|
Agricultural and Farming Organisation Pillar Nominees |
||||
|
Seamus O’Donohue |
Irish Co-operative Organisation Society |
September 2003 |
||
|
Ciarán Dolan |
ICMSA |
September 2003 |
||
|
Michael Berkery |
General Secretary, IFA |
September 2003 |
||
|
Con Lucey |
Chief Economist, IFA |
September 2003 |
||
|
Damian McDonald |
Macra na Feirme |
September 2003 |
||
|
Community and Voluntary Pillar Nominees |
||||
|
Fr. Seán Healy |
CORI |
September 2003 |
||
|
Dónal Geoghegan |
National Youth Council |
September 2003 |
||
|
Deirdre Garvey |
The Wheel |
September 2003 |
||
|
John Mark McCafferty |
Saint Vincent de Paul |
September 2003 |
||
|
John Dolan |
Disability Federation of Ireland |
September 2003 |
||
|
Government Department Nominees |
||||
|
Tom Considine |
Secretary General Dept of Finance |
September 2003 |
||
|
Seán Gorman |
Secretary General Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Employment |
Replaced Paul Haran |
||
|
John Hynes |
Secretary General, Dept of Social and Family Affairs |
September 2003 |
||
|
Brendan Tuohy |
Secretary General, Dept of Communications, Marine & Natural Resources |
September 2003 |
||
|
Niall Callan |
Department Environment, Heritage & Local Government |
September 2003 |
||
|
Independent Nominees |
||||
|
John Fitzgerald |
ESRI |
September 2003 |
||
|
Colin Hunt |
Goodbody Stockbrokers |
September 2003 |
||
|
Brigid Laffan |
UCD |
September 2003 |
||
|
Eithne McLaughlin |
Queens University |
September 2003 |
||
|
Peter Bacon |
Economic Consultant |
September 2003 |
||
|
Dr. Seán Barrett |
Economic Consultant |
January 2005 replaced Colin Hunt |
There have been no new Government nominees to the council of the National Centre for Partnership and Performance since its establishment. However, the nominees of the bodies represented on the council have changed as a result of individual retirements and internal organisational change within IBEC, the CIF and ICTU.
|
State Board/Agency |
Position Held |
Name |
Organisation |
Date of Appointment |
|
National Centre for Partnership and Performance |
||||
|
Executive Chairperson |
Vacant |
|||
|
Government Departments |
||||
|
Mr. John Walsh, Asst. Secretary |
Dept/Enterprise, Trade & Employment |
June 2002 replaced Maurice Cashell |
||
|
Employers |
||||
|
Mr. Morgan Nolan |
Industrial Relations Executive, CIF |
January 2004 replaced Terry McEvoy |
||
|
Trade Unions |
||||
|
Mr. Fergus Whelan |
Industrial Officer, ICTU |
October 2003 replaced Mr. Tom Wall |
||
|
Mr. Des Geraghty |
Member of Executive Council, ICTU |
September 2004 replaced Mr John Tierney, MSF |
||
|
Ms Angela Kirk |
IMPACT |
September 2004 replaced Ms Marie Levis |
||
|
National Economic & Social Forum Full Membership 2004 |
||||
|
Independent Chairperson |
Maureen Gaffney |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Deputy Chairperson |
Mary Doyle |
Asst. Sec., Dept. of the Taoiseach |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Independent Appointments |
Dr. Mary P. Corcoran |
Senior Lecturer, NUI, Maynooth |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Cáit Keane |
South Dublin County Council |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Dr. Colm Harmon |
Director, Institute for the Study of Social Change, UCD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Mr. Brian Nolan |
Research Professor, ESRI |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Mr. Paul Tansey |
Economist |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Strand (i) Oireachtas |
Michael Woods |
Fianna Fáil TD |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
John Curran |
Fianna Fáil TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Mary O’Rourke |
Fianna Fáil |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Paschal Mooney |
Fianna Fáil |
Jan/Feb 2004 |
||
|
Senator Brendan Daly |
Fianna Fáil |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Geraldine Feeney |
Fianna Fáil |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Pat Carey |
Fianna Fáil TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Paul Coghlan |
Fine Gael |
Jan/Feb 2004 |
||
|
Damien English |
Fine Gael TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Paul Kehoe |
Fine Gael TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Joan Burton |
Labour TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Willie Penrose |
Labour TD |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Kate Walsh |
Progressive Democrats |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Senator Feargal Quinn |
Independents |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Jerry Cowley TD |
Technical Group |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Strand (ii) Employer/Trade Unions |
||||
|
Employer/Business Organisations |
Jackie Harrison |
IBEC |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Heidi Lougheed |
IBEC |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Patricia Callan |
Small Firms Association |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Kevin Gilna |
Construction Industry Federation |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Carmel Mulroy |
Chambers of Commerce/Tourist Industry/Exporters Association |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Maria Cronin |
IBEC |
October/November 2004 replaced Jackie Harrison |
||
|
Seán Murphy |
Chamber of Commerce |
replaced Carmel Mulroy |
||
|
Trade Unions |
Éamon Devoy |
Technical Engineering & Electrical Union |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Blair Horan |
Civil & Public Service Union |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Jerry Shanahan |
AMICUS |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Manus O’Riordan |
SIPTU |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Paula Carey |
ICTU |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Agricultural/Farming Organisations |
Mary McGreal |
Irish Farmers Association |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Michael Doody |
Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Mary Johnson |
Irish Co-Operative Organisation Society |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Carmel Brennan |
Macra na Feirme |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Anne Murray |
Irish Country Women’s Association |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Strand (iii) Community & Voluntary Sector |
||||
|
Women’s Organisations |
Frances Byrne |
National Women’s Council of Ireland |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Joanna McMini |
National Women’s Council of Ireland |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Orla O’Connor |
Frances Byrne |
replaced Frances Byrne |
||
|
Unemployed |
June Tinsley |
INOU |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Patricia Short |
ICTU Centres for the Unemployed |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Disadvantaged |
Sr. Brigid Reynolds |
CORI |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
John-Mark McCafferty |
Society of Saint Vincent de Paul |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Sharon Keane |
Anti-Poverty Networks |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Audrey Deane |
Society of St. Vincent de Paul |
November 2004 replaced John-Mark McCafferty |
||
|
Youth/Children |
Malcolm Byrne |
NYCI |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Raymond Dooley |
Children’s Rights Alliance |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Marie Claire McAleer |
NYCI |
replaced Malcolm Byrne |
||
|
Jillian Van Turnhout |
Children’s Rights Alliance |
replaced Raymond Dooley |
||
|
Older People |
Robin Webster |
National Council for Aging and Older People/Senior Citizen’s Parliament/Age Action |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Others |
Seán Gallagher |
The Carers Association |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Séamus Boland |
Irish Rural Link |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Fergus O’Ferrall |
The Wheel |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Frank Goodwin |
Carers Association |
Replaced Sean Gallagher |
||
|
Strand (iv) Central Government, Local Government and Independents |
||||
|
Central Government |
Tom Considine |
Secretary General, Dept. Finance |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Paul Haran |
Secretary General, Dept. Enterprise, Trade & Employment |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
John Hynes |
Secretary General, Dept. Social & Family Affairs |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Gerry Kearney |
Secretary General, Dept. Community, Rural & Gaeltacht Affairs |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Niall Callan |
Secretary General, Dept. Environment, Heritage & Local Government |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Local Government |
Councillor John Egan |
General Council of County Councils |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Councillor Patsy Treanor |
General Council of County Councils |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Councillor Constance Hanniffy |
General Council of County Councils |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Councillor Patricia McCarthy |
Association of Municipal Authorities |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Donal O’Donoghue |
County and City Managers Association |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Councillor Ger Barron |
General Council of County Councils |
November 2004 replaced Cllr. John Egan |
||
|
Councillor Jack Crowe |
General Council of County Councils |
November 2004 replaced Patsy Treanor |
||
|
John Tierney |
County & City Managers Association |
November 2004 replaced Donal O’Donoghue |
||
|
Independents |
Dr. Colm Harmon |
Institute for the Study of Social Change, UCD |
January/February 2004 |
|
|
Dr. Mary P. Corcoran |
Department of Sociology |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Dr. Brian Nolan |
ESRI |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Paul Tansey |
Tansey, Webster, Stewart & Company Ltd. |
January/February 2004 |
||
|
Cáit Keane |
South Dublin County Council |
January/February 2004 |
I look forward to seeing the report. The Taoiseach and his Government are not the only ones who have been guilty of this. There has been a tradition during the interregnum between elections being called and held of making appointments to State boards. The previous Minister for Finance made 57 appointments to four State bodies the day before he moved to his new position. I acknowledge that, if an analysis was made, all Governments have probably taken similar actions. I do not know if the Ceann Comhairle did the same when he was about to leave his position as Minister. I say this in case he is about to jump in to stop me.
The Ceann Comhairle cannot be drawn into any debates in the House.
Deputy Kenny's predecessor certainly believed in that.
He probably followed general regulations. Will the Taoiseach agree that, irrespective of when the next election is called or caused and the Ministers concerned, there will be no appointments made to State boards during that period?
We will never get them to agree to that.
The former Minister for Equality and Law Reform and Labour Deputy, Mr.Mervyn Taylor, laid down a Cabinet agreement for 40% representation of women on State boards. That probably applies to the Taoiseach's Department. Does such a case remain Government policy? Will the Taoiseach encourage his Ministers to follow through on that?
Finally, will he confirm that a person who had to resign from a State board as a result of surrounding publicity — I refer to the Northern Bank and Mr. Flynn — is still in receipt of payments for work done for a State agency, the HSE?
That does not arise, it is outside these questions.
It does.
It is a different question. The question refers specifically to appointments made by the Taoiseach since January 2005.
The Taoiseach might want to confirm that the appointment had been made.
On such questions, many of my predecessors ruled that when a reply is to be printed in the Official Report and not given orally, Members should await the reply rather than pursue the matter by supplementary questions.
We are people of little patience, as the Ceann Comhairle knows.
It does not make sense that supplementary questions be asked when the reply to the main question is not known.
The Ceann Comhairle can set a precedent.
My predecessors have strictly enforced that ruling as far back as the 1920s.
I am sure that when the Ceann Comhairle sat on this side of the House, he was aggressive in asking questions.
In fairness to Deputy Kenny, my reply will not help him on his last question. The person concerned is engaged in one area as far as I know. I am not sure if he is in receipt of payment but I presume he is. However, he is off all the boards with which my Department is involved or that are connected with social partnership.
On Deputy Kenny's first question, I readily admit that we do not serve ourselves well in this House. It might sound efficient or smart but is not a bright idea. The last time, I managed to curtail it reasonably well but, because the Government was returning, it may not have made as much difference. I do not think that just packing these things up on the way out ——
The polls were good then. It is different now.
They were being carefully tracked.
They were doing even better when the Minister, Deputy McDowell, was going up the ladder.
Deputy Rabbitte knows how they go up and down. On State boards, the answer is "Yes". In all the names that come before Government, we endeavour to ensure we keep to the percentage. It is not always maintained by Departments and certainly not by the organisations that have nominating rights to boards. It is an ongoing difficulty which does not only concern social partners but many organisations which insist on sending male nominees. That is something of which they are always guilty, but we continue to try deal with that.
Has the Taoiseach had time to reflect on his appointments to the National Consumer Agency? The Consumers' Association of Ireland has worked on behalf of consumers for many years. I ask the Taoiseach whether the appointment of Ms Celia Larkin is to be taken into account——
The Chair has ruled on the matter of supplementaries. Furthermore, these questions refer specifically to the Taoiseach's Department but the National Consumer Agency is the responsibility of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.
There is an element of collective responsibility involved here on which the Taoiseach might want to comment.
The Chair has ruled on the matter.
I appreciate the Chair is being strict in its adherence to——
The Chair is being fair in implementing the Standing Order that applies.
In fairness to the Consumers' Association of Ireland the Chair might allow a little latitude.
If the Deputy has a question for the appropriate Minister, I suggest he submits one to that Minister.
I will pass on the message.
Does the Taoiseach agree that it would be a useful innovation to respond on the hoof to Deputy Kenny's suggestion that there would not be any appointments made in the interregnum in future?
Does the Deputy mean forever more?
Yes, forever more.
I will think about that. I do not believe the House — and I have sat on this side and on the opposite side——
On this side more often.
I have been on the opposite side for many periods.
It will not be long now.
I do not believe the House serves itself well by making appointments in the interregnum. I have argued that point on the opposite side of the House and in Government, but I have not always won the argument. The situation following an election is different. I will not go into the argument. I could argue that Members on both sides have done this. I am not sure if I am guilty of having done it, but it is not good for the House. Having spent a considerable amount of my working life here, I have a great respect for the House. It is not a good practice.
Except on Thursdays.
I might have some influence if it arises again. I would not like to start a practice, as has happened on many occasions in the past, only for it to be ignored by others on taking office. I always make a virtue of initiating such practices and then others turn around and do the complete opposite and one is left looking silly. Unless there was real agreement on this proposal, I would not be interested in it.
If an honourable agreement was entered into, the Taoiseach could rely on us that it would be adhered to. Is the Taoiseach saying he cannot control, for example, what the Minister, Deputy Roche — to whom I refer simply because he is sitting beside the Taoiseach — might do, in that, if the Minister wants to rush off and make a number of appointments, the Taoiseach can only caution or advise him? Surely, the Taoiseach could set down policy on this matter for his Government and it would be seen as one very small but welcome step for politics.
If it ever arises, I might show a good example.
That sounds as if it might not arise.
It probably will not.
It is difficult to get a commitment from the Taoiseach on this. He has told us he generally agrees this is not good for politics and public life.
I do not believe we did it on the last occasion. I probably have the best record on this.
The Taoiseach may have. I am not making any insinuations about his record.
The Taoiseach should take a chance on this.
I am merely trying to clarify that there would be that type of bipartisan approach that appointments made in this fashion during the interregnum diminish politics and that there ought to be an agreement and understanding that it would not be done. I ask the Taoiseach, as the man in charge at the moment, whether he agrees.
I answered Deputy Kenny's earlier question on this. There may be cases where it is essential that this is done, but generally filling all appointments in the interregnum — Deputy Kenny was honourable in admitting it has happened on all sides of the House — is not good practice. It does not look good to the members of the public. Anything that affects the House negatively in terms of how it is viewed by members of the public is bad for politics. On that basis I agree with the proposal but there would need to be an understanding on it. We are not too bad at understanding such practices. There should not be a practice of simply making appointments to fill boards in the event of a change of Government. Certainly if this arises with me, I will try to do the honourable thing.
I hope the Taoiseach will try hard.
When?
In the dim, distant future.
Prepositions are very important.
Will the Taoiseach acknowledge the desirability of State boards having a truly national and all-Ireland outlook and approach to their work? For example, in regard to future vacancies on the National Economic and Social Forum would he look to appointments north of the Border in a raft of areas, including local government, trade unions, community and voluntary and business and farmer representation? It would be appropriate to have representatives from all over the island of Ireland. Will the Taoiseach consider that issue in regard to casual vacancies that may arise and also in regard to the five Government appointees on the next round? Will he consider looking at the appointments in the context of an all-Ireland approach? If he does not have the answer to my last point perhaps he will come back to me on it. Is legislation required to address the representation on the NESF or any of the other bodies described as national and being State appointed?
For once I can agree with Deputy Ó Caoláin. On the last occasion I appointed a Government nominee from Northern Ireland to the board of NESF, Eithne McLaughlin, from Queens University. I am open to making similar appointments to other boards where there are suitable candidates. There is a benefit in having an all Ireland representation, in regard to the implementation bodies and other bodies. If there are suitable candidates in Northern Ireland, and there are many, who would bring expertise to bear, we will appoint them. In areas such as health we have worked in co-operation with people in Northern Ireland in radiological work to treat cancers. This has worked very well. We have been working closely with people in Northern Ireland. There is an all-island basis with regard to many of these issues and I am in favour of working together to address common problems.
The Taoiseach has acknowledged the importance of this and has indicated one appointment. Will he enhance that approach by ensuring greater representation in the future?
On that board there are only five members, one of whom is from Northern Ireland. Where there is expertise and where good people from Northern Ireland are prepared to serve on a board, I have no difficulty with that. It is an area I will look at as vacancies arise.
7 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he has plans to amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24239/05]
8 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28641/05]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
The code of conduct for office holders as drawn up by the Government following extensive consultations with the Standards in Public Office Commission has applied since 3 July 2003. I have no plans to amend it.
What is the Taoiseach's view of Ministers or Ministers of State endorsing particular brands of commercial products? The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, endorsed a brand of animal feed in the Irish Farmers Journal during the summer. Is that recognised as being within the code of conduct? I understand he supported calf nuts. He appeared with a bag of this material. Is it acceptable that a Minister of State at the Department of Finance——
It depends on the quality.
Perhaps it should have been the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Brendan Smith. Is it acceptable to the Taoiseach that they should engage in that type of activity? Is that allowed under this Administration's code of conduct?
It is a kind of part-time code.
As the Deputy knows it would be difficult to police. If one were caught holding anything in one's hand one could be accused of promoting the brand. Somebody doing an opening could be asked to be photographed with something. I do not believe it is outside the code of conduct unless a Minister or Minister of State is seen to be pressing or lobbying for consumer ends.
We are talking about guilt by association.
To be photographed at some stand or exhibition would be an impossible issue to hold against a Minister.
The Taoiseach said that if a Minister were found to be doing something for any commercial reason, even if it was on behalf of a friend and not himself, it would not be acceptable. Given that the Taoiseach has stated he has no plans to amend the code of conduct, is it necessary to clarify the situation, if a Minister or a Minister of State feels it is not a problem to endorse a product? Is the Taoiseach aware that the British Committee on Standards in Public Life established a similar code of conduct, the Seven Principles of Public Life? The first principle entitled "Selflessness" states:
Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest. They should not do so in order to gain financial or other benefits for themselves, their family or their friends.
Does the Taoiseach therefore need to clarify the code of conduct more specifically to cover such an eventuality? Given that the commission can make a finding but cannot impose a sanction, what sanction would he envisage for a Minister or Minister of State found to be——
That does not arise out of these questions. As the Deputy has pointed out it is a matter for the Standards in Public Office Commission.
I mention this for illustrative purposes. It is important to be able to avoid a problem in the future based on our experience to date.
It would be a matter for the commission in respect of ordinary Members of the Oireachtas.
The code is set down. I have no plans to amend the code as it is only two years in operation. If the Standards in Public Office Commission were to make any points about amendments, obviously in due course we would need to look at that. It is a short period. I am not aware of the issue Deputies Kenny and Sargent have raised. It would be quite hard to police a situation where a Minister or a Minister of State is opening an event, or is at an exhibition or a conference. If a Minister or a Minister of State were photographed moving through and the photograph were used I do not believe he or she could be blamed for that. If a Minister made a statement on a matter it might be different. It would be quite difficult to write a code for that.
The Taoiseach is not going to pursue the matter. They have a free rein.
In the scenario outlined by the Taoiseach——
Does the Deputy have a question?
——I find it hard to understand how there would not be a conflict of interest. If the Minister for Education and Science became involved in advertising a product in the education arena, the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources became involved in advertising telephones or the Minister for Agriculture and Food became involved in advertising dairy nuts I cannot see how there could not be a conflict of interest.
That concludes Taoiseach's Questions.
What is the Taoiseach's opinion on the matter?
A few weeks ago I attended the opening of the new $150 million Guinness expansion. If I am photographed with a pint of Guinness, which I do not drink, is that promoting Guinness?
I am talking about ongoing promotion.
I accept the point about ongoing promotion.
