Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Nov 2005

Vol. 610 No. 2

Priority Questions.

Fishing Industry Development.

John Perry

Question:

85 Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if his attention has been drawn to the fact that Ireland’s seed mussel industry is in danger of collapse as a result of a 40 year old agreement, which is being abused by outside interests to give reciprocal fishery rights to fishermen from Northern Ireland and the Republic in the two jurisdictions outside their exclusive fishery limits as the Northern Irish authorities have registered vessels from other European countries; if his attention has further been drawn to the fact that this practice is proving disastrous for Irish mussel seed farmers and action must be taken to stop same; the reason this practice is still continuing without any legal basis; if he has held talks with mussel farmers on this issue; if his attention has further been drawn to the disastrous effect this practice is having on mussel farmers here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34716/05]

Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. Gallagher)

Mussel seed is a naturally occurring resource that requires a management and development strategy to maximise the potential return and ensure sustainability of the stock.

Access arrangements to Irish and Northern Irish waters are governed by the Voisinage Agreement, a neighbourhood agreement formally recognised under the London Fisheries Convention and adopted as far back as March 1964 by 13 European states, including Ireland and Northern Ireland.

To participate in the mussel seed fishery, operators are required to be licensed by their respective jurisdictions. My Department has sought, and received, assurances from the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development in Northern Ireland, DARD, that all licences issued by it have been in compliance with the Voisinage Agreement. DARD has advised that it issues licences to operators who have licensed aquaculture sites in Northern Ireland waters and in respect of vessels registered in Northern Ireland.

I have consistently invited the industry to participate in the management process for mussel seed. I strongly believe that stakeholders must be actively involved in fisheries management. I support the management of fisheries and believe that it is vital that all stakeholders are involved. In answering Deputy Perry, I take the opportunity to call on the industry once again to become involved in that management process. I consider such participation a priority for the future management of this important resource. While industry representatives have not yet agreed nominations to the management committee, I welcome the informal engagement that took place before the start of this season's fishery. I urge the industry fully to participate in managing this resource and ensuring a sustainable future for it.

Mr. Perry

Mussel farming constitutes Ireland's premier single-species fishery and in 2004 mussel seed production reached 30,000 tonnes, being valued at €22.5 million. The Voisinage Agreement was drawn up in 1964 to confer reciprocal fishing rights on fishermen from Northern Ireland and the Republic outside their exclusive fishery limits. Is the Minister of State not disappointed that it is only a reciprocal agreement without more co-operation?

There seems to be total anarchy with regard to development. This agreement is set down in an exchange of letters and has no basis in law. The Minister of State said that in March he had asked the mussel seed industry to participate in the seed mussel assessment committee, SMAC. To date, industry representatives have not made nominations. Does the Minister of State feel that further action is now needed to move this on? Hitherto, no representative bodies became involved. Will the Minister of State take decisive action to achieve active participation by setting up a new structure to deal with this very serious problem?

Mr. Gallagher

If we are to make progress on this issue, the most positive step that could be taken depends on the industry, which I have invited to nominate representatives to the management committee. They would have an input into SMAC, which advises and makes recommendations to DARD in Northern Ireland and the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. It has an input into the management and exploitation of the seed mussel resource. This important committee comprises representatives from the two Departments, as well as Bord Iascaigh Mhara, the Loughs Agency, and the cross-Border aquaculture initiative. SMAC processes and assesses applications for allocations of mussels and advises DARD and my Department. It also makes recommendations to the Departments regarding the opening and closing of the fishery.

In short, I believe that the most positive step that we can take is to have a representative or representatives on the management committee. I fully agree with Deputy Perry on the great importance of the industry, which has grown over the years and provides much-needed income for those fishing that resource North and South.

Mr. Perry

Does the Minister of State agree that SMAC has failed, despite the fact that it has representatives of all State authorities on it, if it has not instilled enough confidence in people for them to nominate to it? Will the Minister of State set a limit of a few weeks from today for participation, after which he will take decisive action? If he fails to do so, he will do the entire industry a grave injustice. The Minister of State mentioned last March, but this is the end of the year and we are now going into 2006 without anything having happened. At the same time, seed mussels have created a great deal of potential and are one of the biggest generic industries in the State. Cross-Border co-operation is also relevant here, since British vessels are flouting the law. People entitled to fish in the Irish Box are receiving no support since it is not in any way reciprocal.

The industry representatives say that SMAC is not a legal entity and that they do not recognise it. What does the Minister of State say to that?

Mr. Gallagher

There was an exchange of correspondence between the Department and several stakeholders, both individually and collectively, and the view they take is that it is not a legal entity. The advice that I have received is that it is legal and that we are bound by the March 1964 Voisinage Agreement.

I do not know what the best decisive action on my part might be. However, I would have the support of all sides of the House in inviting the industry to become involved in SMAC. That would certainly move the agenda on. I fully agree with Deputy Perry that the mussel seed allocation is extremely important. In 2004, allocations totalled 36,900 tonnes and the uptake amounted to 20,700 tonnes. Production of mussels from that seed on Irish aquaculture sites amounted to 28,000 tonnes, valued at €21 million, making it extremely important to in-shore fishermen. At the expense of repeating myself, I want to see the industry participate. No management regime can make progress without all stakeholders being involved.

Mr. Perry

What about the Attorney General's advice?

Mr. Gallagher

I will supply it to the Deputy.

Industrial Relations.

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

86 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will report on the current industrial relations situation at An Post; if a final resolution to all present industrial relations matters can be expected; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34714/05]

Bernard J. Durkan

Question:

88 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the extent to which he has studied the underlying causes of industrial unrest at An Post; his proposals for the provision of postal, delivery and counter services in the future having particular regard to the degree to which the public relies on and requires such a service; his proposals both short and long-term in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34908/05]

Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 86 and 88 together.

The current dispute in An Post is a serious national issue and one in which every effort is being made to reach a timely and viable resolution. It would be helpful if I outline the background to the current industrial relations problems at An Post.

I emphasise that An Post has been through a protracted process that began in 2003 following the disclosure of serious losses by the company. On foot of these, which amounted to €43 million alone in 2003, the Government asked the board and management of the company to prepare a recovery strategy to return An Post to financial solvency. This strategy, in setting the way forward for the company, has assumed significant changes in work practices, tariff increases and the payment of wage increases.

The plan was presented to An Post trade unions in late 2003. The Communications Workers Union withdrew from negotiations in December 2003. In recognition of the dire financial position facing the company, An Post invoked the inability to pay clause available under Sustaining Progress.

Following industrial action in the Dublin mail centre in March 2004, the Labour Relations Commission was asked to become involved in resolving the industrial relations difficulties. The two parties spent from April 2004 to November 2004 in the LRC. The proposals arising out of the LRC were put to the CWU membership and turned down by the union. The outstanding issues were then referred to the Labour Court for resolution.

On foot of union concerns that An Post management had no real experience of the postal sector, the Labour Court appointed a three-person expert group to come up with a workable proposal on collection and delivery that would be acceptable to members of the Communications Workers Union. That group spent six months working on a comprehensive proposal regarding collection and delivery, which was published in July 2005.

In the early part of 2005, the An Post group of unions referred the non-payment of Sustaining Progress to the LRC, as provided for under the Sustaining Progress agreement. The LRC appointed assessors to examine the claim. The assessors report recommended that having regard to An Post financials, 5% should be paid to employees, backdated to 1 January this year. That recommendation was accepted by An Post management and rejected by the CWU.

The Labour Court issued a comprehensive recommendation which outlined that the acceptance of the deal on collection and delivery would trigger payment of the bulk of Sustaining Progress. The Labour Court deal would have allowed a postman to obtain a 9% pay increase this year on top of a 5% Sustaining Progress pay increase already made, giving a total increase of 14%.

The Labour Court recommendation was considered by the executive of the CWU but was not put to a ballot of members. Instead, the union decided to ballot for strike action on the non-payment of Sustaining Progress. After a vote for industrial action, the union gave two weeks' strike notice to the company, ending on Friday, 4 November.

At no stage have I apportioned blame to one side over the other. I have stated the facts as they are and the history in An Post over the last ten years has not been great. The industrial climate in the company has been characterised by agreement to and payment for industrial relations agreements but little actual delivery on the ground. Payment up front means that the company pays for change but subsequently only gets partial benefits and thus worsens an already fragile financial position.

Both the Taoiseach and I have emphasised to both the management and unions of An Post that the only way forward is for both parties to agree a deal within the parameters of the Labour Court recommendations. While I have recently met both management and the CWU in an attempt to overcome the impasse, I requested the national implementation body, NIB, to invite both parties to sit down separately with a view to resolving the dispute. The talks began on 2 November, with a breakthrough occurring late on Sunday, 6 November.

I understand that, at an emergency meeting of the CWU's disputes committee, held on 7 November, it was agreed to defer strike action for a week pending an independent assessment of the costs of changes in work practices that is to be carried out by external accountants. The NIB met the management side yesterday and the CWU and has indicated that the process initiated in conjunction with the accountants would be finalised today. The NIB proposes to meet the parties this evening and has requested that they refrain from comment and treat the accountant's report as confidential for a period of 24 hours after it is presented.

A recent and very positive development in the resolution of the company's difficulties concerns a separate claim submitted by the other unions in An Post, the AHCPS, the PSEU and the CPSU. On 1 November, the Labour Court issued three new recommendations, advising that members of these unions are to receive the Sustaining Progress increases as set out in the Labour Court's July recommendation. The court found that these unions' members had either implemented work practice changes required of them or had committed to doing so. The recommendations were accepted by the company which stated that workers and pensioners concerned would receive these increases shortly.

There will continue to be a key national role for An Post, both in delivery of mail and as a quality service provider through its nationwide network of post office outlets. The market for traditional postal and post office services is changing globally and meeting customer needs has become more important than ever. To remain competitive, An Post needs to make the best possible use of its long-established and trusted brand name and deploy its resources in a manner which continues to serve existing customers' needs and attracts additional customers for a range of new services.

The simple fact remains that the company needs to introduce modern work practices if it is to thrive in a competitive environment. I want to see An Post continuing to deliver a high quality postal service to the people. To enable the company to provide this service, the archaic work practices that the workers themselves have acknowledged are archaic need to be changed.

Mr. Broughan

Will the Minister provide the House with the information on the number of An Post pensioners who have died in the past three years since the failure of the An Post company to pay its due cost of living increases? I am led to believe that 74 An Post pensioners died in that period and did not receive their due increases.

The Minister said in his reply that he did not take sides in this dispute but is it not the reality that he did take sides? A few weeks ago he blatantly took sides and tried to portray An Post workers, the postmen and women of this country, as lazy, overpaid, pampered workers who were only doing three or three and a half hours' work a day. Is that not what the Minister said about the postal workers of this country? He blackguarded them in a disgraceful manner and presented them as lazy, unproductive workers when he knew that was not the case. All he had to do was go into his local post office in Navan or Trim to see that was not the case. Instead, the Minister blackguarded the postal workers of this country and made the resolution of this dispute more difficult when he knew the reality that delivering the post day in, day out to 600 or 800 houses is a very tough job. The only other members of a profession who know how tough it is are politicians because we go door to door all the time. The Minister did that only recently with his "Dempsey Delivers" posters, although he has not delivered.

Mr. N. Dempsey

Does the Deputy have a question?

Mr. Broughan

Where did the Minister get the information on work practices? Was it not disgraceful that in the middle of this delicate dispute, the Minister threatened An Post workers and communities throughout the country with immediate privatisation and liberalisation? He said a few weeks ago that he would do that if necessary. That was the Minister's way forward. When politicians meet our constituents who are postal workers or when we call into post offices, is it any wonder that we find they are hopping mad and very upset because they believe the Minister, as their guardian, and the media have not given them a fair crack of the whip and have presented this dispute in outrageous black and white terms when everybody knows there are issues to do with electronic substitution and deregulation which have not been presented. The Minister has performed badly in this dispute.

My final point relates to management. This management has created a poisonous industrial relations climate, one of the worst I have ever seen. It has created a logjam but instead of the Minister telling the chief executive and chief operations officer that it is time for him to make changes in the management of An Post, he ensured they got bonuses. They destroyed the universal service obligation and reduced it by approximately 20%——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

A final question please, Deputy.

Mr. Broughan

——but the Minister's only action was to give them significant bonuses of tens of thousands of euro and a €50,000 bonus for the chairperson. Is that not a ridiculous way for a guiding Minister of an important semi-State body to carry on?

Mr. N. Dempsey

Deputy Broughan would be the first to jump up and down in this House if I, as Minister, started interfering with the appointment of anybody in An Post, even a postman. I am sure he would be highly irate about that. Questions of appointment, management and so on are matters for the board of An Post, not the Minister. It is important that it should be so.

I agree that the industrial relations climate in An Post is poisonous. Unlike Deputy Broughan, however, I do not attribute this to one side or the other. Such an approach will not solve any of the problems. I am the guardian of neither the workers nor the management of An Post.

Mr. Broughan

In the United States, the Minister would be the postmaster general.

Mr. N. Dempsey

As Minister, I have a responsibility to this House and to the public to ensure we have a postal service that works well into the future.

When one spells out realities, it is sometimes difficult for people to accept that one is doing anything other than issuing threats. In response to a query about what would happen in the event that a resolution could not be found and the postal service were to grind to a halt for an indeterminable period, I simply answered that another postal service would have to be provided. This development is already happening in any event. The liberalisation of the market will take place by 2009. The report by Mr. Paddy Walley for the CWU recognised that there are archaic work practices in An Post. We should not fool ourselves in this regard. There is a problem in the company and it will not be solved by either side refusing to change. In fairness, both sides have indicated in the last week to ten days that they are prepared to work towards a resolution.

I did not try to portray the post office workers as lazy, pampered or unproductive. I did not blackguard them.

Mr. Broughan

The Minister said they worked for three hours a day.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I gave answers to questions that were put to me, the information for which was available to me from the Department and from An Post workers and managers. I did not at any stage say that all workers work for three and a half hours a day. That is the case for some, however.

Mr. Broughan

Who are they?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister should be allowed to continue without interruption.

Mr. N. Dempsey

In response to specific questions, I told the truth as I know it and as it is confirmed to me. I blackguarded nobody. If people have a problem with the truth, that is their problem rather than mine. Little service would be paid to An Post workers and management, or the general public, by making this issue into a political football.

Mr. Broughan

That is what the Minister did.

Mr. N. Dempsey

There is a problem in An Post that must be resolved. That will only happen by the two sides talking to each other. I have made this clear from the beginning.

Regarding the number of pensioners, I was informed by the union, but cannot verify this figure, that some 74 pensioners have died in the last number of years without receiving their payments under Sustaining Progress.

Mr. Broughan

That is very sad.

Mr. N. Dempsey

It is very sad. The sooner the union and management reach an agreement, the sooner those pension increases will be paid. These pensioners are the unfortunate losers. I again urge both sides to work together on foot of the report they will receive this afternoon to resolve the issue for the benefit of An Post pensioners, workers and consumers.

Mr. Durkan

Will the Minister comment on what has happened in the last 12 months? For instance, is he satisfied that adequate action and intervention have taken place to attain a resolution of the problems? Does he not accept that his intervention took place at the 11th hour, constituting a fire brigade action in keeping with the standard reaction in this matter? One of the underlying problems in An Post is the non-payment of pension entitlements to former employees of An Post. Does the Minister agree this is a mean, stingy and insulting action? Should it not be a first principle that the issue is resolved for those who are retired? They should not be penalised. It is an appallingly stingy action to withhold payment from them and it serves no useful purpose.

Will the Minister indicate whether he has ascertained the estimated financial costs of meeting the issues that are the cause of this dispute? Was it beneficial to this debate to read in the newspapers the salaries and overtime of the ten highest paid postmen in the Dublin area? It might have been more helpful to also include details of the ten lowest paid postmen or sub-postmasters. Would this not have been far more constructive in the context of the appallingly poor labour relations in An Post?

The Minister was making deliveries in Trim and Navan recently. Does he intend to have to deliver the post soon?

Mr. Broughan

He may end up doing so.

Mr. Durkan

Does the Minister see a future for a national postal service, as we have had in the past, or has he made up his mind about something else? His statements suggest he has something else in mind that might be better. In those circumstances, I remind him of the various other utility services previously in public ownership. What benefit has the consumer received from the changes in this regard?

What has the Minister done in the last 12 months, by way of policy directive, to encourage the expansion of the scale and scope of the services available through An Post? I have observed elsewhere that the updating of the electoral register might be a useful exercise which An Post workers, who visit most doors on a regular basis, could undertake. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government opined publicly that this would be a good idea but there has been no further response. Has anything been done in this regard?

Mr. N. Dempsey

I have met members of the union executive some half a dozen times in the last year. During that time, I have also met the company management on a number of occasions. I do not wish to go through the entire industrial relations machinery of the State which has been employed in this matter. I know Deputies opposite must say something on this issue. However, discussions were ongoing in the LRC, a technical group was established to examine the implications of the proposals and the Labour Court, Mr. Peter Cassells and a range of other bodies were involved in its resolution. If the Minister of the day intervened in An Post and got between union and management, I know what the Deputies opposite would say. I am satisfied that over the past 12 months I did everything I possibly and legally could do without upsetting the industrial relations machinery to bring both sides together to resolve the matters and avoid a strike. At no stage was there any fire brigade action.

The problem with the payment of An Post pensioners stems from the precedent established by the laws on pensions. Pensioners are paid pro rata——

Mr. Broughan

Some of them are civil servants.

Mr. N. Dempsey

——as wages are increased in the public service.

Mr. Broughan

What about Civil Service entitlements?

Mr. N. Dempsey

That is a separate issue.

Mr. Broughan

It is not. That is at the core of the problem.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister without interruption.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The principle of parity between pay and pensions is extremely important to pensioners as it is a protection for them that the link is not broken. Despite efforts that were made——

Mr. Broughan

It was not there to be broken.

Mr. N. Dempsey

——it was believed it should not be broken. That was in the best interest of workers and pensioners.

Mr. Durkan

It was not in the best interests of industrial relations.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I would love to pay An Post pensioners at the moment.

A variety of different figures exist on the financial costs of resolving this dispute. It is not just a question of cost but of savings by changing archaic work practices. Various figures have been bandied around ranging from €10 million to €20 million to €32 million. It is not an exact science.

Mr. Broughan

What about the net cost?

Mr. N. Dempsey

The important issue is the changing of work practices to ensure the company's future viability. If Deputy Durkan is insinuating that I was behind the release of information on the salaries of the ten top-earning postal workers which appeared in newspapers——

Mr. Durkan

It is out. Someone had to do it.

Mr. Broughan

Some malicious spinner.

Mr. Durkan

I did not insinuate anything. I simply laid it out for comment by the Minister.

Mr. Crowe

We believe the Government did not do that.

Mr. N. Dempsey

——he is wrong. I have no idea what the top-earning or low-earning postal workers are being paid.

Mr. Durkan

Who did it then?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I suggest the Deputy takes the matter up with the newspapers and asks them for their sources.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Question No. 87.

Mr. Durkan

What about the alternative services? The Minister did not answer my question on them.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Question No. 87.

Mr. Durkan

This is another case of Dempsey failing to deliver again.

Mr. N. Dempsey

I would have answered the question if I was not interrupted.

Marine Rescue Service.

James Breen

Question:

87 Mr. J. Breen asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the reason for the delay in providing the Doolin Coast guard search and rescue service with a new station at Doolin (details supplied). [34718/05]

Mr. Gallagher

I am conscious of the need for a new station house for the coastal unit at Doolin, County Clare and want to see it provided as quickly as possible. The Irish Coast Guard and the Office of Public Works have been doing everything they can to acquire a suitable site in the area, but despite intensive local discussions and negotiations it has not been possible to reach agreement for a site to date.

Real progress was made in negotiations in 2004 and it had been expected that a deal would be agreed, but, due to circumstances beyond the control of the Irish Coast Guard and the Office of Public Works, the negotiations were not successful. Despite this setback, however, efforts were intensified again this year and discussions with a landowner are now at an advanced stage. In view of the need for strict confidentiality in managing such negotiations it would not be judicious to elaborate upon the discussions at this time. As soon as an agreement is reached, the Department will move to complete the development as quickly as possible.

I compliment the Doolin coastal unit for the excellent search and rescue work it has undertaken over many years, some of it in very difficult circumstances. While it is regrettable that attempts to acquire a site have not met with success to date, the provision of a new station house for the Doolin team remains a top priority for me.

The Department and the Office of Public Works will do everything possible to bring these advanced negotiations to a successful conclusion. It is appropriate at this time to sympathise with the families bereaved as a result of a recent tragedy in Doolin.

Mr. J. Breen

I too compliment Doolin coast guard and rescue service. I sympathise with the relatives of those who lost their lives at the recent bank holiday weekend, some of whom are neighbours of mine. Will the Minister of State agree it is a disgrace that the Doolin coast guard and rescue service must operate from a building constructed in 1920? The building has no facilities for showering, tea-making or even a toilet. The radio equipment is stored in an upstairs loft. As there are no stairs to it, the volunteers must climb a ladder to receive distress messages from sea. The building is subject to flooding with the volunteers forced to put sandbags against the doors. Does the Minister of State know that the lifeboat is stored one and a half miles inland and must be taken through Fisher Street in Doolin? During the summer, the street is busy with traffic delays of up to 30 minutes. With two ferries operating off Doolin, how soon could the lifeboat get to them if there is an emergency? This year, 30 rescue missions were undertaken by Doolin coast guard and rescue service.

Will the Minister of State agree that it is the indecision of the Office of Public Works that is holding up the provision of a new site for the service? When his predecessor promised it eight years ago, the Office of Public Works announced the location of the new station. However, it frequently changed its mind on where the site should be located. Such indecision is holding up the provision of a station in Doolin. A landowner is prepared to facilitate a new building at one location. Will the Minister of State support those great volunteers, who give up part of their livelihoods to search for missing people at sea, by providing a new station? Will the Minister of State give me a guarantee that a new station will be built on the latest proposed location before next June?

Mr. Gallagher

I appreciate the difficult circumstances in which the team in Doolin is working. There are 45 coastal units around the State. The Department has a programme in place to provide new stations or extensions and refurbishments to existing ones. In the past 12 months I have had the pleasure of opening many of them. It is not that Doolin is not high on the priority list. The Deputy is correct as the Doolin unit was listed as a priority location for a new station house as far back as 1998. As I have explained, there was a problem in securing a site. It would be wise for us to give the OPW and the IRCG an opportunity to negotiate with the landowner with whom they are in discussions. I hope the matter can thus be brought to a conclusion. We were at an advanced stage last year when a question of confidentiality was raised. The less we say about this matter the better. The Deputy referred to a site that is available and if he wishes to give me this information privately I will be pleased to take it on board and advise the coast guard and OPW accordingly.

I am anxious to provide a modern station at that location. As I come from the north-west coast, I realise only too well the number of missions carried out by all the units throughout the country. These units give their time voluntarily and the least we can do is provide them with modern facilities because they are working in very difficult circumstances. Even if the site were procured today, it would be unwise for me to put my political future on the line by stating that it would be finished by next June. This is taking into account lead-in time, transfer of land, planning permission issues and other matters. I will do my utmost to ensure that the negotiations are brought to a successful conclusion and I will not be found wanting at that stage.

Mr. J. Breen

Even if a site was available in the morning, the Office of Public Works still does not have a design for the building. Surely a design should exist for the building, wherever it will eventually be placed. I hope there is not a rift in the camp between the Minister and the Minister of State, who are sitting very far apart.

Mr. Gallagher

Templates exist and it should not take too long to design a station house. If the process got that far, the Deputy would be reasonably satisfied.

Question No. 88 answered with QuestionNo. 86.

Industrial Relations.

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

89 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the position regarding Irish Ferries; the way in which schemes to outsource maritime jobs will impact on the strategic direction of the National Maritime College and the Irish Maritime Development Office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34715/05]

Mr. Gallagher

Talks were held recently under the auspices of the Labour Court, involving Irish Ferries Limited, SIPTU and the Seamen's Union of Ireland. The Labour Court has issued its recommendations on the dispute. The Labour Court operates as an industrial relations tribunal, hearing both sides in trade disputes and then issuing recommendations setting out its opinion on the dispute and the terms on which it should be settled. I urge both parties to give serious consideration to the court's recommendations, as did the Taoiseach when he addressed the issue on Leaders' Questions yesterday.

Maintaining and increasing Irish seafarer employment has been a focus of the Government. We established the Irish Maritime Development Office to provide our shipping and shipping services sector with a dedicated statutory development office. The Irish Maritime Development Office operates like a mini-IDA Ireland and helps my Department to make a case to Government on the sector's behalf. I am requesting the Irish Maritime Development Office to carry out a thorough evaluation of the results of existing strategies to promote the Irish maritime sector, particularly in the light of recent developments. That evaluation will include an examination of the successes achieved to date in promoting the sector and the issues to be addressed.

Following evaluation by my Department, the recommendations of the Irish Maritime Development Office will form the basis of a submission to Government. In 2004 the Government set up a new €51 million National Maritime College to train our merchant marine and Irish Naval Service cadets. Students pursuing careers at sea or in the onshore maritime sector can obtain qualifications or degrees in Europe's most modern nautical college. Together with the National College of Ireland's International Maritime Studies Institute, which opened in 2004 and which is based in the Irish Financial Services Centre in Dublin, the new maritime college will help Ireland to develop as a choice for both sea and shore-based maritime activity.

In the opinion of the Irish Maritime Development Office, there is still strong demand for the employment of Irish officers and cadets, from Irish ship owners other than Irish Ferries and from international ship owners. Part of the examination to be carried out by the development office of the existing strategies to promote the Irish maritime sector will be an assessment of the possible impact of the Irish Ferries action on the operations of the National Maritime College and the role of the Irish Maritime Development Office itself.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

In that regard, the European Commission is taking an increased interest in boosting seafarer employment in the Community's shipping sector. The Commission recognises that professional mariners often progress from active sea service to shore-based jobs that require maritime experience. It is the experience of other European maritime states that the onshore maritime sector can be of major economic significance.

Clearly the Government's maritime policy extends beyond seafarer employment to include the development of an onshore maritime cluster of marine related businesses. Our maritime sector covers not just the activities of our ship operators, but supporting onshore activities in such areas as freight forwarding, ship broking, insurance and financial and legal services. The Irish Maritime Development Office has estimated that the shipping services sector in Ireland has more than 9,000 employees and had an annual turnover of over €1.4 billion in 2004.

Mr. Broughan

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. The Taoiseach told the Dáil yesterday that the Government had declined a request from Irish Ferries, and its parent Irish Continental Group, to re-register ships with a Cyprus registration. Did the company make an application to re-register with any other countries, such as the Bahamas? On what grounds did the Government turn down the re-registration request for Cyprus?

The Minister of State will have today read that the Labour Party has produced, under my name, the Mercantile Marine (Avoidance of Flags of Convenience) Bill 2005. This seeks to implement into Irish law the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, requiring ships and companies to have a genuine connection with the country of the flag under which vessels are registered. The Labour Party believes that the Bill is eminently constitutional and possible. Has the Minister of State, in conjunction with the Taoiseach, considered the legislation and will it be supported and brought forward by the Government as soon as possible? We could bring it forward this evening if we so wished.

A Bill was approved a few weeks ago relating to State property in approximately an hour after being announced that morning. Will the Minister of State ensure that the Labour Party's Mercantile Marine (Avoidance of Flags of Convenience) Bill 2005 is immediately passed? This will send a clear message to Mr. Rothwell and Irish Ferries.

What steps, if any, is the Government planning to take at the level of the European Union regarding the disgraceful and appalling proposals for workers' pay and conditions at Irish Ferries? Between 1998 and 2004, the Government, represented by Deputies Woods and Jacob, with Senator O'Rourke, were responsible for the input into an EU ferries directive. The basic point of this was that the pay and conditions of one of the states between whom the ferry was operating would be the minimum pay and conditions of the workforce aboard. What is being done about this directive, which has been tossed around for six years? There is an allegation that the Government and two of the Deputies were opposed to the implementation of the EU ferries directive.

Has the Department been in contact with Irish Ferries or the Irish Continental Group regarding the significant tax relief that the company receives? Its tonnage tax has been reduced from over €3 million two years ago to only €300,000. Has the company been contacted on the issue of availing of an Irish base that facilitates low taxes, yet treating our workers in a disgraceful manner?

With regard to the so-called cost-cutting measures, is it true that the Labour Court's judgment is the only one that could have been delivered and is eminently fair? There is an agreement covering 2004 to 2007 that was made in a fair and transparent way and should be accepted.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy's time has run out.

Mr. Broughan

I have a brief addendum. With regard to tax cuts, a few right wing hyenas in the media are advocating this type of regime, where a worker is paid €1 an hour and the manager is paid €15,000 per week.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must proceed to the next question. We have gone way over time.

Mr. Broughan

Is it not disgraceful that such a manager wishes workers to work for less than €3.60 per hour?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call on the Minister of State to reply.

Mr. Broughan

What steps will the Minister of State, in conjunction with the Minister, take to resolve the matter and draw a line in the sand, stating that in this country——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call the Minister of State.

Mr. N. Dempsey

The Deputy's behaviour is disgraceful.

Mr. Broughan

——we will not take this type of abuse of workers from Mr. Rothwell and his ilk? We should lay down a standard and adhere to it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair has spoken.

Mr. Broughan

What was all the work of past generations for if Irish workers are to be abused in this manner and intimidated? Will the Minister address these six small points?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We have gone over time. We must move on to the next question. The Minister of State should be brief.

Mr. Gallagher

One could resolve the difficulty immediately were the parties prepared to accept the court's recommendations of this week, which I do not have. Formally, it is not seven days but, by the same token, everyone knows what the recommendations are. The Taoiseach made it blatantly obvious that the Government does not condone a situation where individuals, irrespective of where they come from, are being paid less than the minimum wage. This is clear and unambiguous.

As to the question on the Bahamas, it is my recollection that the company was following the Normandy and trying to flag out to the Bahamas, which would give it the opportunity to have so-called yellow packs.

Mr. Broughan

Did the Minister of State turn that down?

Mr. Gallagher

On advice, yes. We now have an application for reflagging in Cyprus. We put a number of questions to the company in connection with this on the advice of the Office of the Attorney General. We received replies that were not what we requested. I understand that more comprehensive replies have been made as recently as today. Obviously, I must get advice from the Attorney General before I can deal with the matter.

A number of State aids are in place. Irish Ferries and other companies can take advantage of these, whether it is the special and unique €6,350 income tax allowance available to seafarers who work in excess of 161 days at sea, a corporation profit tax incentive, PRSI or tonnage tax, which——

Mr. Broughan

Has the Minister of State discussed that with the company?

Mr. Gallagher

I have not met the company for a considerable time and certainly not since the announcement of the offer of redundancies.

Mr. Broughan

Did the Minister of State call the company in?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mr. Gallagher

Like the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, and others, I do not wish to interfere in internal industrial relations or in the industrial relations machinery of the Labour Court which has served us well. I recently met representatives of the unions, such as Mr. David Begg of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, representatives from the Seamen's Union of Ireland and people from SIPTU. They made a number of suggestions about what I could do in respect of a tripartite arrangement with the United Kingdom and France. I pursued this and sought advice but I could not do anything in the short term.

In concert with the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Killeen, and his officials, we discussed the possibility of introducing legislation to ensure that, irrespective of which country's flag a vessel flies, it must conform with the minimum wage legislation in this country, the United Kingdom or France depending on where they were sailing to and from. There was no legislation we could introduce to do that.

I was in Europe at the time. The Deputy referred to the EU manning issue which was approved by the European Parliament but not by the Council. We had some reservations but, as I have often said, it is much easier to be an historian than a forecaster. Obviously, there were good grounds for the decision at the time but I hope we can pursue the manning directive as it is the best avenue. It is not on the agenda at the moment but I would have no difficulty in trying to promote it in Europe. It may not solve the problem immediately but is essential in the long term. None of us in this House condones——

Mr. Broughan

What about this modest Bill?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must conclude Priority Questions.

Mr. Broughan

This is very important.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We must conclude.

Mr. Broughan

Just this point.

Mr. Gallagher

I admire any individual Member who tables his or her own Bill. The Irish ship registration legislation is essentially the Mercantile Marine Act 1955. It is being reviewed and a public consultation process is under way. The details of the process are available on a website.

I remind the House and Deputy Broughan in particular that the closing date for submissions is 16 December. The content of the Labour Party Bill can be considered in the review process. If Deputy Broughan and his party meanwhile wish to bring the Bill before the House in Private Members' time, we would not oppose it on Second Stage.