Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Feb 2006

Vol. 614 No. 5

Adjournment Debate.

Health Services.

Mr. McCormack

Various representations have been made to me recently about the cut-back in the availability of home help. The people cannot understand this given that the Minister said in his Budget Statement that an extra €30 million has been allocated to the home help service, and 1.75 million extra hours, yet home help has been cut back.

In a recent survey 97% of those surveyed said they would like to continue to live in their own homes, in their own environment, for as long as possible, and home help assistants enable them to do that. I have been dealing with a particular case in my constituency since December. Three years ago an elderly Alzheimer's patient in north Connemara, whose son looked after her in her own home, had eight hours home help. Last October the home help was cut back to four hours. Since then I have been unable to have the four hours home help restored. People with Alzheimer's do not improve, rather they are inclined to get worse.

I wrote to the Health Service Executive western area and I was informed in a letter dated 16 December that there are some people in the Clonbur area who would work in the evenings, but as there is an embargo on recruitment the posts cannot be filled. As I was surprised to hear that, I tabled a parliamentary question to the Minister on 25 January and the following is her reply.

My Department has not imposed limits on the recruitment of home help assistants. It is a matter for the Health Service Executive to determine the appropriate staffing mix. . .

I got back to my good friends in the HSE western area and they said that, of course, there is an embargo.

Irrespective of which Minister responds I do not want him or her to read out the prepared script. If that happens I will walk out. I want to know why, given that the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children has been allocated an extra €30 million in the budget and, according to her reply, is providing 1.75 million extra home help hours, the poor man in the Clonbur area cannot have the four hours home help service restored to him that he had last October.

To put the matter beyond all doubt, on 8 February 2006 I tabled three questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, in different formats, in case I was slipping up in any way, asking whether there was a cut-back in the number of home help assistants. She stated:

As I indicated to the Deputy in response to a previous question, the Department of Health and Children has allocated an additional €30 million to the home help service in 2006, which will allow for the development of the service. That funding will provide for an additional 1.75 million home help hours in 2006 and not 1.6 million, as I previously advised the Deputy [in December].

The number of hours is increasing but the four hours from which the man in question benefited cannot be restored. A message should be sent to the officials in the Health Service Executive western area stating the home help hours are being cut back and not being restored and that the Tánaiste is talking rubbish.

If we do not keep the elderly in their own communities for as long as possible, it will be a great loss to those communities and the elderly persons' families. The presence of grandparents among their grandchildren can be vital to the development of the latter. I know this because I have grandchildren.

We are doing a grave disservice to people in rural areas and elsewhere if we put the elderly into institutional care unnecessarily. This will happen in the case in question if the necessary home help hours are not restored. It is not too much to allocate to somebody the same number of home help hours he or she was entitled to last October. That was before the budget in which the imaginary €30 million was allocated, thereby increasing the home help hours by 1.75 million.

I have been told to ring various people about this issue. I rang a lady called Mo Flynn and she said it had nothing to do with her and transferred me to somebody else. Will the Minister of State tell the officials of the HSE western area that they have the authority to grant more home help hours? The man who is minding his mother in his own home in Clonbur has a lady available to work the extra four hours if they are restored. However, the HSE tells me there is an embargo on recruitment such that it cannot appoint anybody.

I ask the Minister of State not to read out a prepared script telling me the amount of money or hours allocated because I will walk out if he does so. All I want is for him to ring up the officials in the HSE and state there is no embargo on recruitment, restore the four hours' home help for the man in question and employ somebody to help his mother stay in her home for as long as possible rather than have her put into institutional care. The Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, will give him the names of the person dealing with the Connemara area and the person in charge of home help in the HSE.

Mr. Ring

Hear, hear.

Mr. Connaughton

Hear, hear.

Mr. Ring

They cannot get the bed for him.

Mr. McCormack

They cannot, yet there are four or five beds empty, and six empty in Carraroe.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. S. Power)

I am not sure the Deputy wants me to answer the question.

Mr. McCormack

I do and will walk out if he reads——

Mr. S. Power

If the Deputy wants to walk out, he may do so. That is his prerogative. We will all be walking out at some stage.

Mr. McCormack

I will wait and listen to what the Minister of State has to say.

Mr. S. Power

I am delighted.

The policy of this Government regarding the development and delivery of services for older people is to maintain them in dignity and independence at home for as long as possible in accordance with their wishes, as expressed in many research studies carried out. We try to ensure independence for older people so they can live at home and to encourage and support the care of older people in their communities by family, neighbours and voluntary bodies, where possible. Clearly, therefore, the role of the home help service is vital to the implementation of this policy.

The aim of the home help service is to enable people who would otherwise require residential care to remain at home, where appropriate. It is recognised that the home help service is an essential support to family and informal carers.

In line with the Government's continued commitment to community support for older people, an additional €33 million was allocated in the budget for 2006 to the home help service. Some €30 million will be spent this year and €3 million in 2007. The additional investment will provide 1.75 million home help hours this year and is being implemented in a flexible way by the HSE.

The home help service is, by its nature, a flexible service that responds to service user needs. As a result, the level of service required in individual cases can fluctuate from time to time. I know Deputy McCormack said that, last October, the person in question was in receipt——

Mr. McCormack

I will give him the information tomorrow.

Mr. S. Power

I ask the Deputy to let me finish.

Mr. McCormack

I will give him the information about the person tomorrow.

Mr. S. Power

The point I was making was that the service individuals require can change from time to time and therefore must be flexible. If the Deputy provides me with the precise details, I will certainly follow up the case with the HSE.

To ensure effective prioritisation of the service, assessments are undertaken in the main by locally based public health nurses. They are in the best position to do so. The service is targeted at those persons of high and medium dependency in accordance with their assessed needs.

The HSE is responsible for the operational management of the home help service nationally. It has advised the Department that there are no cutbacks in home help hours and that it is implementing the national roll-out of the additional €30 million allocated to the service for 2006. There is no embargo on the recruitment of staff in the health service.

Mr. McCormack

There is.

Mr. S. Power

Accordingly, public sector pay and employment policies do not prevent the executive from appointing home helps or any other grades to provide health and social services to the public. Pay and employment policies include the social partnership agreements, adherence to approved employment levels and the management of human resources, including staffing mix, in line with service needs and policies overall.

Mr. McCormack

I am walking out in protest. I will have to talk to the Minister tomorrow.

Emigrant Support Services.

Mr. Connaughton

I congratulate my constituency colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, who has been given responsibility for emigrant matters, and I congratulate Deputy Mary Wallace on her appointment to the position of Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me raise this important matter which concerns the 50,000 Irish citizens trapped as illegals in the United States.

No week goes by in which some parent, brother or sister does not contact me regarding the proposed legislation concerning emigrants to the United States. The problems confronting Irish citizens in the Untied States are well known. The affected citizens are afraid to return to Ireland for family weddings and funerals. Families are split and many are now beginning to feel the force of the new driving licence legislation passed recently in the United States which will more or less prevent the undocumented from working in a country they love.

In a State of the Union address, President Bush did not seem to stress the immigration issue which must be tackled in the United States. I believed he would give the nudge to the Kennedy-McCain proposals, which appear to be humane, sensible and, above all, administratively possible. They are in the best interests of the United States.

I call on the Taoiseach to instruct his Ministers to discuss, while reviewing St. Patrick's Day parades throughout the United States, the unique problems that beset our 50,000 undocumented Irish citizens in that country and to garner support for the Kennedy-McCain proposals, which will be debated at a meeting of the justice committee at Capitol Hill at the end of March. When the bowl of shamrock is changing hands in the White House on St. Patrick's Day, will the Taoiseach make a special appeal on behalf of undocumented Irish citizens, many of whom want to work and live in the United States but also want to be able to come home to the places of their birth? I ask him to attach great importance to this issue on St. Patrick's Day.

Mr. Ring

I support my colleague Deputy Connaughton. I wish well the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, who is dealing with emigration, and I congratulate Deputy Mary Wallace on her appointment as Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food.

We are sick and tired of the behaviour of the US Government and it is time we adopted a tougher approach to it. We have pussyfooted for long enough on this issue and thousands of people are meeting every week to discuss it. Last weekend there was a meeting in New York and there have been meetings in Philadelphia, Boston, San Francisco and Washington. The people affected are Irish citizens. We are supposed to have a special relationship with the US Government. How could the same Government allocate 10,500 visas to Australian citizens in recent months? What did the Australian people ever do for America? It was the Irish people who built America and ensured that its economy is as it is today. It is too bad if our Taoiseach and our Ministers cannot secure a special deal for Irish people. A special deal has been reached for people from Nicaragua, Chile and other countries. We want a deal for Irish citizens, once and for all.

I remind the Minister of State and the Taoiseach that there is supposed to be a special relationship between Ireland and the United States. It is time for us to call in a special favour. Like Deputy Connaughton and many Fianna Fáil backbenchers, I am sick and tired of listening to mothers and fathers telling me that their sons and daughters cannot leave the US to come home to bury their loved ones, to attend a wedding or to be present on special occasions. I do not refer to people who have been in the US for six months, but to people who have been there for ten, 15 or 20 years. When the representatives of the Government go abroad this year, I do not want to see the Taoiseach in the US engaging in a charade with a bit of shamrock. He should go there to make a special case for our illegal immigrants and to strike the deal that the US Government owes to the Irish people. We are sick and tired of taking dictation from them. We want a deal for our emigrants. I am worried that the McCain-Kennedy Bill will go down because Irish-American politicians are getting afraid ahead of the elections next year. We need to put pressure on American politicians and the US ambassador to Ireland. We do not want any more short-term arrangements. I want our people to be looked after. I am sick and tired of what I am hearing coming out of the US.

Mr. McGinley

We all agree with that.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. Treacy)

The vulnerable situation of the undocumented Irish in the United States continues to be a matter of deep concern to the Government and all Members of the Oireachtas. As public representatives, we are familiar with the stresses and strains of the daily lives of the people with this difficult problem. Those of us who represent constituencies in the west of Ireland, in particular, are keenly aware of the impact of this problem on the individuals concerned, as well as on their families at home. I am glad to have an opportunity to assure the House that the Government and the Irish Embassy and consulates in the United States will continue to give this matter the highest priority. The legislative debate on immigration in the US has entered a critical phase. Last December the US House of Representatives passed the Sensenbrenner-King Act, which provides for tough enforcement measures. Wider reform legislation, including measures to address the issue of the undocumented, is likely to be considered in the US Senate next month. The progress being made in the debate brings with it many expectations and a sense of optimism that resolution may be in sight. That we are unable to predict the outcome leads naturally to heightened feelings of anxiety.

At this stressful time for our undocumented Irish and their families, this evening's debate gives me a welcome opportunity to update the House on recent developments in the immigration debate in the USA. I emphasise the Government's commitment to giving every possible support to our undocumented community. What I will say builds on previous debates and on information that my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, has previously circulated to Members of the Oireachtas. The common cause and commitment of the House to supporting our undocumented community found the clearest possible expression in the all-party resolution that was debated and passed by the House last October. Our interest in this matter is set against the background of the deep affection of Irish people for the United States of America and our great pride in the contribution that Irish people have made and continue to make to developments in that country over the generations. I am glad to have an opportunity to assure the House that the issue of the undocumented Irish continues to be a high priority for the Government, which is acutely aware of its duty to promote and protect their interests to the fullest extent possible. In all its dealings with its key US contacts, the Government emphasises the importance of addressing the vulnerable position of the undocumented Irish in a sensitive and sympathetic way. The Taoiseach made that point during his most recent meeting with the US President, Mr. Bush, as did the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, during his meeting with the US Secretary of State, Ms Rice.

While there have been significant developments in the US Congress, it is clear that the legislative situation there is fluid. Achievement of the necessary compromises continues to be a formidable challenge. The Government, which has raised its concerns about the undocumented Irish with its US contacts, recognises the complexity of the issues involved and the need to secure consensus about a comprehensive set of reforms which address the circumstances of the undocumented Irish and the need for increased security of borders. In this context, the Government welcomes the engagement of the US President, Mr. Bush, on this issue. In particular, it welcomes his support for a humane approach that focuses not only on enforcement issues but on the need for overall reform. The Taoiseach looks forward to discussing this issue further with Mr. Bush when they meet next month during his traditional St. Patrick's Day visit to Washington DC.

Deputies are aware that various legislative proposals, including the significant and positive Bill proposed by Senators Kennedy and McCain, were tabled in both Houses of Congress last year. The Government considers that the Kennedy-McCain Bill is the most attractive approach for the undocumented Irish as it includes provisions which would allow undocumented people to apply initially for temporary residence status, with a route to permanent residency. In effect, that would allow the undocumented Irish to travel to and from Ireland freely. As Deputies are aware, that would be a great relief to the individuals and their families in Ireland. The Kennedy-McCain proposal is one of a number of immigration Bills before the US Congress, not all of which are sympathetic to the circumstances of the undocumented Irish. Deputies are aware that immigration is a highly sensitive and frequently divisive issue and that some members of the US Congress are strongly opposed to proposals which would give undocumented people the opportunity to regularise their status. The strength of this opinion was evident, for example, during the passage through the US House of Representatives of the Sensenbrenner-King Act last December. That legislation focuses on the enforcement of immigration legislation without making provision for the regularisation of the residency status of undocumented people. The focus of the debate in the US has shifted to the US Senate. I understand that the chairman of the US Senate judiciary committee has considered the proposals advanced last year by Senators Kennedy, McCain, Kyl and Cornyn and has drafted a compromise text that will form the basis of further discussion. Committee stage consideration of the compromise text may commence early in March.

Acting Chairman (Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin)

The Minister of State's time has concluded.

Mr. Treacy

Can I finish my speech? I think the House would like to hear it.

Mr. Ring

That is agreed.

Acting Chairman

Other Deputies are waiting to speak. The Minister of State has yet to read two pages of his script.

Ms McManus

It will take him a few minutes to read two pages.

Mr. Ring

The Minister should be allowed to read it into the record.

Mr. Treacy

I will not take long.

Ms McManus

The Minister of State can continue.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Treacy

Deputies may recall from the information note the Minister for Foreign Affairs circulated last November that there are indications that the compromise text provides for a temporary guest programme that will be open to those who are undocumented at present. However, it proposes that such people will be required to return to their home countries before applying for re-entry to the US. Senators Kennedy and McCain and their like-minded colleagues are convinced that proposals which require undocumented people to return home before applying for re-entry to the US are not practical and will not encourage such people to come out of the shadows. Senators Kennedy and McCain continue to be active in advocating provisions they consider to be effective and fair. The Government, which is monitoring the situation closely, is confident that the Senators in question, who are good friends of Ireland, will remain deeply involved with the legislation as it is considered by the Senate. In the critical period ahead, as proposals and compromises are put forward, the Government will continue to make known its strong support for the inclusion in the final legislation of the key elements of the Kennedy-McCain Bill.

As I have said, the Government and the Irish Embassy and consulates will continue to engage fully with these issues as part of the wider Irish effort in the US. I am proud to say that the Irish diaspora has earned an important role in that country. Irish people are entitled to inform their local US legislators of their views. I warmly welcome the recent establishment of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, which gives Irish people in the US another powerful tool to give clear expression to their views. I am delighted that Senator Kennedy has expressed his personal appreciation for the initiative that led to the establishment of the lobby. As a reflection of the Government's commitment to supporting the undocumented Irish, the Minister for Foreign Affairs recently announced the allocation of a grant of €30,000 to the lobby to help it to meet its operational expenses. In the short time since it was established, the immigration reform lobby has held well-attended meetings in New York, Philadelphia and Boston and is organising further meetings. The high level of participation and interest it has generated reflects the Irish community's grassroots support for the approach advocated by Senators Kennedy and McCain. The lobby is working closely with existing organisations in the Irish community, such as the excellent network of Irish immigration centres and GAA clubs. I warmly commend the community spirit of Mr. Niall O'Dowd and others who established the lobby, as well as those involved in the extraordinary network of Irish organisations showing strong leadership on this issue.

The efforts I have mentioned complement the ongoing work of the Government, the Irish Embassy and the network of consulates in the US, which are trying to ensure that the issues which deeply affect our undocumented can be resolved. The Government will consider all options and measures that would address the interests of this vulnerable section of the community. I assure the House that the Government's efforts in support of the undocumented community will continue to increase in the crucial period ahead. The Government's views will be conveyed by our colleagues and diplomats at the highest level over the St. Patrick's Day period in Washington and throughout the US. I thank the House sincerely for giving me an opportunity to update Members on developments regarding Irish people in the United States of America.

Mr. Ring

We want political action.

Mr. Treacy

We are working very hard on it.

Mr. Ring

We are not getting very far.

Sugar Beet Sector.

Mr. Sherlock

I welcome the Minister of State and congratulate her on her appointment. I hope that she will have good news for us. We are asking that the beet growers of Greencore be responsible for a €25 million restructuring levy in 2006. I want her to report on the recent meeting between the Minister for Agriculture and Food and the European Commissioner for Agriculture. The Minister said publicly that a restructuring levy of €25 million would have to be paid if sugar beet is grown in 2006. If this is not paid, then further uncertainty would surround the future of the industry. The Minister must act at this crucial period to convince beet growers that this is a now-or-never scenario. I urge farmer representatives to participate and ensure that sugar will be manufactured in Mallow this year. I understand that Fry-Cadbury's in Rathmore is importing French and English sugar to prepare for the future. If sugar is not manufactured here, other customers will also prepare to shift allegiance to other sugar producers.

The Irish sugar quota is just 1% of the total EU quota. A total of 3,700 farmers grow sugar beet and they receive €75 million annually from the production of 72,000 acres of beet crop. The Mallow plant processes 1.2 million tonnes of sugar. I hope that we do not have to say that the Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats Government was responsible for closing down the sugar factory owing to lack of effort on its part. The sugar growers to whom I have spoken have told me that they want to keep growing the crop. The workers in Mallow have a right to know what the future holds for them. That depends on the Government and Greencore. The chairman of Greencore recently said at its annual meeting that the company paid £2.1 million when it took over the sugar industry in 1991.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food (Ms M. Wallace)

I thank the Deputies for their kind wishes. I welcome the opportunity to update the House on this issue. The political agreement on reform of the sugar regime, reached last November, provides that in the event of a decision to cease sugar production in Ireland, a restructuring fund of up to €145 million becomes available for the economic, social and environmental costs of restructuring the Irish sugar industry. The fund is subject to the submission of a detailed restructuring plan for the industry involving factory closure and the renunciation of the sugar quota. The agreement provides that at least 10% of the restructuring fund shall be reserved for sugar beet growers and machinery contractors to compensate notably for losses arising from investment in specialised machinery. That proportion may be increased by member states after consultation of interested parties, provided that an economically sound balance between the elements of the restructuring plan is ensured.

The agreement provides that the restructuring scheme will be funded by a restructuring levy payable by sugar processors in each of three marketing years, starting in 2006-07. For the Irish quota of 199,000 tonnes of sugar, the levy payable would be €25 million in the marketing year 2006-07. The levy is paid by the processor and has no impact on the minimum price for sugar beet for 2006 or subsequent years as set out in the agreement. To facilitate payment of the levy by the processor, the price of sugar remains unchanged in the first two years of the reform.

The publication of the EU legal texts giving effect to the political agreement on the reform was delayed pending the opinion of the European Parliament. The Parliament's opinion was delivered on 19 January and the texts of the draft Council regulations then became available. These texts have been subject to technical discussions at working group level over recent weeks. The Minister for Agriculture and Food met Commissioner Fischer Boel last week in Brussels to discuss a number of issues arising from the texts. At that meeting the Commissioner clarified that sugar produced in the first year of the reform will be liable to the restructuring levy, but in the event of the quota being renounced for the second year, the levy will not be payable in that or subsequent years.

Another issue raised was the inclusion in the texts of a requirement to deliver beet in the year preceding the year of quota renunciation to qualify for restructuring aid. At Ireland's request this requirement has been dropped from the draft regulations. These will now be presented to the Council of Agriculture Ministers meeting in Brussels next week for adoption.

The European Commission is working on preparing detailed implementation rules which can only be finalised once the Council texts have been adopted. The restructuring scheme will be a complex measure to implement and until all the various legal texts have been adopted, it will not be possible to provide details of the definitive implementation arrangements. We appreciate the need to provide as much clarity as possible on the reforms. The Minister announced last week her intention to use the three-year average of the individual farmers' contracted tonnage of beet for the 2001, 2002 and 2004 marketing years as the reference period for the single payment compensation for sugar beet growers. I thank Deputy Sherlock for giving me the opportunity to clarify that.

Schools Building Projects.

Ms Fox

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important matter. I congratulate the Minister of State on her appointment yesterday. I do not speak as often as most in this House, so I hope she sees this as an indication of how seriously I take this matter.

St Catherine's special school in Newcastle, County Wicklow, established an autism specific pre-school in Barnacoyle House in Newcastle in February 2004 to meet the growing demand for children diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder in Wicklow. This facility has become vital to the many families it helps and makes the concept of early intervention a reality. Early intervention makes a major difference in the long-term success of an autistic child. However, the parents of at least nine children are faced with the uncertainty of not knowing whether Barnacoyle pre-school will still operate after 31 March. This will present significant practical problems for parents and children alike, many of whom are now in the routine of attending Barnacoyle which, if disrupted, will cause difficulties for many of the children.

A number of difficulties have also been experienced by parents in trying to pursue many of the services which were promised to them by the Government through various routes. The Education for Persons with Special Needs Act 2004 outlines an individual educational programme to benefit autistic children. There are strict timeframes for these programmes and they must be carried out within one month of a request by a special educational needs organiser, while they must take no more than two months to complete. However, the reality is that despite individual educational programmes having been requested for a number of children four months ago, their requests have not yet even been commenced. Many children who have been referred by St. Catherine's services have not been dealt with and there have been no letters to parents; there has been nothing at all. The only feedback is that there may be issues regarding the board of management of the school. This is the same board of management which was in place when the Department of Education and Science requested and sanctioned post-primary facilities for autistic children.

It is the easiest thing in the world to come into this House and put down a matter for the Adjournment and to read a speech into the record of the Dáil. However, two and half minutes is not enough time for such a serious issue. This matter is worthy of a meeting between the Minister of Education and Science and a deputation from St. Catherine's school to discuss the many issues and to give them a serious hearing. I earnestly request that this take place as soon as possible.

Ms McManus

I compliment Deputy Wallace on her appointment. There are so few women in this House that it is always a pleasure to congratulate a woman achieving high office. I wish her well.

I welcome the opportunity to raise this matter and I welcome the parents of young children with autism who have taken the trouble to travel to Leinster House tonight at short notice. These parents approached me and other public representatives in County Wicklow due to their deep concern about the future of the educational facility upon which they depend and in which they vest great hope for their children.

I pay tribute to St. Catherine's school and its pre-school facility. The principal and staff do innovative work and their reputation is of the highest standard. The ABA facility opened in 2004, originally under the auspices of the patron, St. Catherine's Services. In 2005 two classes were sanctioned by the Department of Education and Science but it was quickly obvious that demand was greater than what was provided for. St. Catherine's took in an additional nine children and was given to understand that sanction for these children would be forthcoming from the Department. The signals were that if one could prove demand existed, it would be catered for, and it was on that basis that the children were accepted. However, to this day, that sanction has been denied the school.

The parents have now been informed that from 31 March, the service for unsanctioned children will have to be discontinued because of the burden being placed on the patron. It is insupportable that parents find themselves in such a terrible situation. I urge the Minister to sanction places for the nine children as well as providing for the ongoing education needs of the children at Barnacoyle.

We must remember that this process does not end on completion of pre-school and that issues relating to these children need to be dealt with into the future. St. Catherine's objective is to provide this vital service for each child up to the age of 18. Surely, in a country awash with money, the Minister can provide for these most vulnerable of our citizens. The Barnacoyle parents group made the following point:

The State has a moral duty to every child to provide the most effective means of education. We as parents feel that the most appropriate form of education to be delivered to our children is ABA.

Surely we can meet that need.

Ms M. Wallace

I thank Deputies Fox and McManus for their kind wishes. I am pleased to have been afforded the opportunity by the Deputies to clarify the position of the Department of Education and Science in regard to St. Catherine's pre-school for autism. I hope what I have to say will be of assistance and guidance on the way forward.

I assure the Deputies that the Department of Education and Science is anxious that children, including children with autistic spectrum disorders, ASD, receive an education appropriate to their needs. In that context, the Department currently funds three classes in St. Catherine's to cater for the needs of up to 18 children with ASD. This funding is to provide for qualified teachers and special needs assistants, as well as an enhanced rate of capitation.

The Deputies will be aware that the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, has responsibility for processing applications for additional special classes. On Wednesday, 1 February, officials in the Department and the NCSE met representatives of St. Catherine's to discuss a range of issues, including a request by it for funding in respect of an unauthorised class for children with ASD. Following this meeting, the officials issued a comprehensive letter on 8 February to the school representatives outlining the Department's and NCSE's position on the various matters discussed at the meeting.

The Department's letter covered a number of matters such as the need for a board of management to be put in place in St. Catherine's, the process for applying for sanction for further classes for children with ASD, training and qualifications of staff and other issues. It is now a matter for the school to proceed in accordance with the process that has been outlined to it in this letter. I point out that at no stage during the meeting did the school representatives indicate to the Department or the NCSE that St. Catherine's would close its autistic services from the end of March. The Department of Education and Science first heard of this position through media reports and was surprised at this development, given that there had been no direct contact from the school to this effect.

It will be a matter for the NCSE to process the application and, in doing so, to seek whatever additional information it requires from the school to enable it to make an informed decision. The NCSE can seek advice, if required, from the Department in regard to the application. Factors such as the needs of the individual children, levels of existing provision in the area and geographical location of the proposed attendees are matters that the NCSE will need to consider in processing the application.

The Department will continue to prioritise the issue of special needs education for children with autism and, in co-operation with the NCSE, ensure that all children with special needs are adequately resourced to enable them to reach their full potential.

I thank the Deputies for affording me this opportunity to clarify these important issues. I would encourage the school representatives to follow the process outlined in the letter of 8 February last. With regard to Deputy Fox's request for a meeting with the Minister, I will ask my office to pass that request to the Minister's office tomorrow morning.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.25 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 16 February 2006.