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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Feb 2006

Vol. 615 No. 4

Social Welfare Law Reform and Pensions Bill 2006: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Previously I spoke about what might be the framing philosophy of a social welfare system. I drew attention to the great choices there were in the founding of the welfare state in Britain and the argument that followed it several decades later. The welfare state in Britain came into existence for a specific set of historical purposes, but I drew the Minister's attention to the main principles of the confrontation of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. I did that not in a divisive way but in terms of the choices that were available as policy platforms.

Those issues still remain and are sharpened by the particular circumstances of the Irish economy which, to some extent, provide us with an even deeper version of a paradox that was there before, which is of high rates of economic growth and obdurate levels of poverty that are enclaved within the social system, and of gaps that are opening up even further between the perception of poverty and participation levels at different levels of society.

In summary, I suggested to the Minister that a good positive approach is one based on citizenship that moves through a screen of values that accept the principle of universalism. I offered him support in that and for such changes as he had made already in the legislation that were going in that direction. This is the way we must go.

To make a connection with what I said previously, I would like to give some suggestions of a more practical kind. It is crucial that the assumptions guiding welfare policy be articulated and defended. It is also crucial that they be recognised for what they are. They are the principles upon which the whole policy and set of measures are eventually structured. For example, one may make an assumption that it is the purpose of the State to defend itself against a kind of predatory mob that continually comes at it for everything it can get, whether qualified or not. This is the exact opposite of a model which suggests that citizens are entitled on a universal basis to security from poverty and many other things that flow from it, including fear, from childhood to old age. The assumptions being articulated are the honest statement of the policy. However, it is not just the policy that will be affected by the basic assumptions, but also the process.

We should recognise the important changes that have taken place, but we have still a long way to go before we have what may be regarded as a citizenship model in the intersecting points between the citizen and the State. We have made significant progress with regard to the dilapidated and demeaning buildings to which people had to go, the shutters at which they had to queue and the language to which they had to listen. I am not saying that we have replaced all the housing officers across the country or that we will never again hear the phrase "There is nothing for you".

We have a significant journey to go yet if we are to have a discourse that is appropriate to an equality of citizenship in which people will get the same standard of treatment in dealing with any aspect of the State as they would if they said they had come to inquire about new investment opportunities in Bulgaria. It is not just the buildings that must change, but also the language and attitudes.

While I have recorded and paid tribute to progress and to the measures taken by the Minister this year and last year, I must tell him that I have been disturbed by something that relates not just to his Department but to offices across the State and local government, namely, a kind of fraught intolerance of any critical comment. For example, I was trying to talk to someone recently about housing, but before I could even get started I was told "There is no housing crisis." I had not even got as far as suggesting there was a shortage. There is a notion about that everyone must defend himself or herself or that they are being attacked. We must accept that it is of the nature of a citizenship model being worked through, that people must be able to make changes. This will require at a practical level, in our own offices, among our staff and ourselves as public representatives at different levels, the continual encouragement of people to think about the way in which people are spoken to and treated. If this is a very rich economy it should be a society in which a person should grow old with some sense of security and some sense that the common discourtesy which prevails in the streets at the present time is not something that is imported into the offices of the State. Let us put an end to this business about people being threatened if they are asked a question, the poor dears.

I said in a previous contribution to this debate that I would give some examples of what I referred to as anomalies. The Minister will know I am raising this matter because I have spent a lot of my life with artists. My wife was an actress at one stage and a founding member of the Stanislavsky Theatre. I ask the Minister to seriously examine the question of atypical workers, particularly artists. Over the years I have regularly made this plea, not just to the current Minister. If one is an unemployed artist and is, as artists would say, resting, one does not have to be told about all of the jobs that are available in the local bars, hotels and so forth. One should be able to register as an artist who is not working.

There is no point in my complaining without making suggestions and there are ways to deal with this. In Scandinavian countries, for example, artists such as writers, performers, musicians and others have, by giving public performances, acquired credits which are used later to guarantee them income and even to set out the basis for an embryonic pension fund.

At the present time, there is a particular difficulty on foot of the outrageous action taken by the Competition Authority against artists. The authority has extracted from SIPTU an undertaking that it will not represent musicians, actors doing voice-overs and others in a collective agreement on the basis that such artists have undertakings and, as such, are the equivalent of pharmacies and those with a great deal of resources. The result of that action is in flagrant violation of the International Labour Organisation convention No. 98 and of the various trades union Acts, enacted through the 1990s and up to the present time.

I am encouraging a High Court challenge to this and have every intention that it will proceed because it is outrageous. The State will not grind to a halt when people's rights are vindicated, no more than it will grind to a halt because somebody should not have been docked income in the summertime, having returned to education, as the High Court has just decided today. That is a very good decision.

It is time that the Minister found an alternative to the concept of habitual residence. That concept is stopping him giving proper recognition to people who worked abroad for years, including missionaries in Africa, for example, and to people who have come here from countries that are now in the European Union and who are in carer relationships. I am thinking here of somebody looking after a blind man, known to the Minister and myself, of over 80 years of age. The problem is that the person is assumed to be anxious to go back to Lithuania.

I welcome many of the changes in the Bill and hope I have given them due recognition. If a sum of €140 million is required to abolish the means test for the carer's allowance, how many miles of road would that cover? It is only a bad weekend's income from some of the tolls, when one thinks of it over a period of time. Why not do it? The Minister would certainly have our support in that. I hope the Minister is going down the road of the positive social philosophy of not regarding welfare as residual but as a building block in citizenship that will eliminate fear and insecurity. If that is the case, he would have my support.

I wish to share time with Deputies Cooper-Flynn and Dan Wallace.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

I am happy with the current state of much of our social welfare initiatives and with many aspects of this Bill. The Minister, Deputy Brennan, has clearly proven the commentators wrong, who criticised him even before he took up the portfolio. I am happy that he has done such a good job. I am also pleased that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen has agreed to the provision of funding, to the massive sums that we are putting through in this Bill and elsewhere. I welcome the fact that through this Bill, the vast majority of the funding can be targeted at programmes other than unemployment benefit, which was not the case in the past. We are continuing to target the elderly, child care, carers, pensions, widows, widowers and a host of other very deserving causes and situations.

None of us should ever be totally satisfied with what is happening and become complacent. In that context, I am unhappy with the fairly rigid way that legislation is framed at times, giving rise to a situation whereby if people do not obtain what, in my opinion, is rightfully theirs it is described as an anomaly. That is a very casual way of describing a situation that can be lifestyle changing for many people. There are unfortunate people who get caught up in a situation whereby the positive effects that were intended in legislation cannot be applied to them. It is often due to the way legislation is drafted. I am aware of at least three such situations, one concerning widow's benefit for those who go abroad, another concerning people who return to education and have their benefits taken away and the third concerning a person who worked for 25 years and then worked as a self-employed person who can get no benefits. However, I do not have time to go into detail on these tonight.

I will deal with the Bill before us. It is one of the keys to unlocking the record €1.12 billion package of social welfare improvements announced in the budget last December, an investment to better the lives of the country's older and less well off people of which the Government should be proud. The Social Welfare Law Reform and Pensions Bill aims to ensure that everybody, not just a select few, can share in this country's continued prosperity. Bringing the level of social welfare expenditure to more than €13.5 billion in 2006 is a remarkable achievement by anybody's standards. It underlines the Government's commitment to tackling marginalisation in certain communities. Such an expansive programme is also an immense tribute to the people who are working so hard to keep propelling our economy forward. It is something I am sure politicians from all sides of the House applaud and welcome. On a personal note, I was very pleased to hear the contribution of Deputy Michael D. Higgins both tonight and during the earlier debate and how fairly he judged the Minister and the programmes being put in place.

Considering that we have record levels of employment, the investment of over €13 billion can be spent on particularly deserving areas and targeted at those most in need of State help. There are people who are not directly benefitting from the spawn of the Celtic tiger and the measured proposals in this Bill will make big improvements in their everyday lives by underpinning the safety net which they require. We often describe social welfare as a safety net, or in other ways, but we are all well aware of what I mean. The substantial funding commitment contained in this social welfare package is crucial in our attempts to make our society fairer. Euro alone will not be enough to solve all our problems and money on the table must be supported by energy in the community. One can certainly do much more if one can match ambition and constructive social plans with sound financial foundations. As the old saying goes, prevention is better than cure. This is why a much more proactive approach is being made across all Departments to tackle the issues that contribute to social exclusion and anti-social behaviour. This is an area in which there needs to be further development of that approach.

There should be increased co-operation between the Departments of Education and Science, Health and Children and Arts, Sport and Tourism when it comes to tackling community problems that have knock-on effects. If sport, health and community awareness programmes can be developed in and funded for our schools, particularly those in disadvantaged or RAPID designated areas, such as my own, such strategies cannot but have long-term benefits for the health and outlook of communities and individuals. This will ultimately be reflected in lessening the pressure on our health and criminal justice system and result in a better and fairer country in which we all live.

Everybody in Ireland today, young and old, has a contribution to make to the enrichment of our society. As Deputy Michael D. Higgins said, this should not be dependent on wealth, class or creed. I join previous speakers, especially my colleagues, and members of all parties in welcoming the Bill. The pensions issue was described for the past 20 or more years as a time-bomb waiting to explode. Nobody did too much about it until this Government got a grip on it.

I thank Deputy Dennehy for sharing time. I welcome the Bill. That the Minister has been able to keep the area of social welfare out of the news in recent months and since he came to that portfolio is a good thing. Certainly it was an area of great criticism in the past. There have been many welcome improvements, particularly the many benefits payable to women.

In regard to the national pensions review, the Minister has highlighted the number of people who have no pension provision. I welcome the move by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, who put the initiative in place for SSIA holders to add a bonus of €1 for every €3 transferred into a pension.

I wish to refer to a number of points that have been raised by working mothers and those who decide to stay at home and look after their children. Eventually they may return to the workforce. The number of years they stay at home looking after their children are disregarded for the purposes of calculating their pension and PRSI contributions. Is there any way credits could be given to women who decide to stay at home to look after their children until the children reach a certain age rather than disadvantage those women when they reach pension age? I notice in the Bill that the Minister has taken on board some of the points made by women's groups. This is a welcome development because for many years women's groups have been calling for reforms within the social welfare system and their calls have often fallen on deaf ears.

Under the social welfare code, payments for a qualified adult are paid to the person who is the principal claimant. I understand there is a system where one can opt for separate payments but one must ask for it. It does not happen as an automatic entitlement. It would be a positive step if as an automatic entitlement the payment for the qualifying individual were paid directly to the individual without the necessity of going to the Department and asking for that separate payment. Believe it or not, even now there are women who find that a difficult issue. It is a topic on which I have spoken in the public domain and the response from women on issues of that nature is amazing.

That the Minister has increased the respite grant for carers by €200 is welcome. That is an excellent development in section 30. The extension from 15 months to two years of the carer's benefit scheme is welcome. This initiative enables families to look after relatives in their home and it will ease pressure on many other State services that are creaking at the seams. Where there is the facility for people to look after elderly relatives or special needs people within their home, that time extension is valuable. I welcome also the increase from ten to 15 hours for part-time work. People come to my clinics who care for elderly parents not on a nine to five basis but 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That people can take up a part-time job in some cases is a welcome relief and the increase from ten to 15 hours for same is a welcome development.

The child care package in the budget was generous. At the time I thought the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, was implementing the new early child care supplement for me, given that I had just had a new born baby. My two children are under six years of age. It is a welcome development for mothers in the provision of child care. We could all argue the case that €1,000 per child is only a small element but at the same time it is in addition to the increased child benefit that has been provided in recent years. The increased child benefit has been substantial certainly in my time in this House and it has gone a long way towards helping parents, mothers in particular, to provide child care.

I compliment the Minister on taking on board the issue of childminders and the €10,000 disregard for income tax. Given that the PRSI element has been covered, they will have an entitlement to pension and maternity benefits. That is a positive step. With regard to the €100 earnings disregard for those in receipt of pensions, given that we rely on 50,000 immigrants to keep the economy growing, it is important to encourage as many older people as possible back into the workplace. Many people well into their 60s and beyond have much to offer society. That they can play a role and earn an income without affecting their pension entitlements is a welcome recognition of how society is shaping up. Overall, the Minister is implementing many of the changes announced in the budget. He has made great headway in this Bill which I endorse. With regard to the rights of women I ask the Minister to take points on board the points I have made in the future because our social welfare system can be made more friendly in that area.

I also congratulate the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, on his performance in that Department since he took over. That we are discussing measures that will give effect to welfare payments and entitlements in excess of €13 billion says much about the rapid change in society during recent years. On the one hand, the country is doing extremely well and the economy can sustain these payments and this is evidence of one side of modern Ireland with businesses and individuals prospering and benefiting from this rising tide. The other side of the coin, however, is that there is a need for such levels of payments with people throughout the country dependent on the State for their very existence.

I welcome the fact that as a society we are in a position to make substantial payments to the less well-off but it is equally important that we continue to commit resources to tackling the causes of poverty so that we can impact in a positive way on the quality of life for many individuals who are in constant need of support.

It has often been said, but it is worth repeating, that the reason we have so much scope to offer meaningful and telling increases in rates of payment is because of the strong performance of the economy. Commitments made by the Government that the gains made by the State would be redistributed, to ensure all sectors of the community could benefit from the growing prosperity of our country, have certainly been delivered on. While some are happy to take these increases for granted and to be dismissive of them, the facts are that 1.5 million people benefit directly from these weekly entitlements and they cater for people in a variety of different circumstances. Adults, children, pensioners, the unemployed and people with disabilities, whether temporary or long-term, will all receive increased payments.

Many organisations are consistently articulating the views of the less well-off in society and working to alleviate hardship. The increases announced on budget day are an acknowledgement of the role these groups play in articulating the needs of their clients and in ensuring the need for ongoing increases in the rates of payment so we can further our aim of narrowing the gap between rich and poor in society.

It is now time to consider seriously the diminishing role of the volunteer in society. In addition to providing additional resources to individuals, there is a need to encourage voluntary organisations to prosper and expand. A defining feature of life in Ireland for many years has been the ongoing influence of volunteers working in their communities for groups such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Meals on Wheels and Care of the Aged, with the sole aim of helping others. It is fair to say the State could never hope to match the efforts and effectiveness of these people in making a real and positive difference to the lives of others. Unfortunately, in recent times, owing to the improving economy and consequent pressures faced by individuals, we are now seeing a reduction in the number of people prepared to commit to voluntary work. If one speaks to the administrators of voluntary groups, one is very often told that finance is no longer the key problem they face — instead, it is a lack of manpower.

We have a responsibility to encourage volunteerism and I welcome the fact that the Minister indicated that he intends to commit resources to go behind the payments and tackle the causes that trigger the need for the payments in the first place. A key part of this exercise should be to identify measures to foster the spirit of voluntary effort and encourage people to continue to play a role in their own community. Even limited success in this regard will have an exponential effect on individuals and communities across the country.

To further the ongoing and sustained development of the economy and the general spin-off benefit to the country at large, it is vital that we continue to provide a bank of educated and efficient workers for potential employers who continue to be attracted to Ireland as a quality location. The Minister has acknowledged that a wide range of reforms and initiatives are required as part of our overall strategy to ensure Ireland is ready to deal with the challenge of providing for the employment demands of the economy over the next decade. We have now reached full employment and any increase in employment numbers will have to be catered for through immigrant workers, encouraging people on the live register to take up work and, particularly, creating an environment where lone parents and married mothers feel confident that the appropriate structures are in place to allow them to return to work and have their children cared for appropriately in their absence. I am happy the measures the Government is adopting will help in our stated aim of providing opportunities for all sectors of the community and continuing to stimulate the economy.

The Bill should be acknowledged as one that has as its primary focus a requirement to cater for the needs of those who most in need in society. Its various measures will help to alleviate hardship, offer hope and improve the quality of life for so many people from many different backgrounds. It will do so through the provision of better services and fairer sharing of available resources. Through the pension provisions, it will seek to protect workers and provide for the financial security of citizens in retirement. There is no doubt but that these measures will make a significant impact in addressing poverty and will directly benefit the lives of many. I am pleased to support the Bill and I congratulate the Minister on its introduction.

Is Deputy Wallace willing to allow Deputy Ring the two minutes remaining in his slot?

Fianna Fáil is coming to Deputy Ring's rescue again.

I might be joining that party yet — one never knows. I wish to speak about the back to education scheme. In this regard I welcome today's judgment and hope the Minister will not appeal it. I tabled a priority question in the Dáil on 26 June 2003 and told the former Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan, that somebody would take a case against the Department and win it. I congratulate the person who has done so. Shame on the Department for taking badly needed money from people who want to re-educate themselves and return to the workplace.

Consider the Department's attitude to people seeking unemployment assistance. Even when such people produce a number of letters for the Department officials, they are told they are not actively looking for work. A court case is now taking place in this regard and I support the person involved. I will send the person some funding for the case because the way in which some of our citizens are being treated is a disgrace.

I am sick and tired of what is happening to my constituents. There was a time when people with very little education could get jobs in restaurants, pubs and hotels, but those days are over. People are now coming from the accession countries and taking these jobs from them. Some of our citizens are being marginalised both by the system and the officials in the Department. I feel so strongly about this that I must ask the Minister to review the manner in which they are being treated. They are being treated badly.

Although job hunters produce letters showing they are actively looking for work, they are told by officials they are not doing so. Furthermore, there is no work in their areas and it is time the Minister and his officials did what is necessary to stop the court case from going ahead. How can one prove one is actively looking for work if an official says one is not, even after his being shown three or four letters to the contrary? This is not right and it is time the Minister addressed it.

I could put something else on the record tonight but I will not. However, the way our citizens are being treated is wrong. They are Irish citizens, born and reared in this State, but they are being turned away by the Department of Social and Family Affairs and have to beg from community welfare officers every week. I will table a parliamentary question on this matter next week and the Minister will find there are many people pushed away by the Department and degraded by the HSE areas.

The Minister has been caring and has taken on board many points made in this House and I therefore ask him to sit down with his officials to address this matter. People come to my constituency office crying, upset and disturbed over the way they are being treated. I do not want to say any more tonight on this matter because I spoke to the Minister privately about it, and I do not want these circumstances to persist. If somebody wants a little help and there is work for him, he will accept it. I compliment the judge on the correct judgment he made today.

I wish to share time with Deputies Harkin and Cowley.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

This time last year, the public in Kildare North and Meath put child care firmly on the national agenda by raising the matter over and again with representatives on the doorsteps. I was reminded of this today when I saw the snow because the weather was similar then and it is well we remember it.

Child care is now accepted as an issue of national importance and the Bill is the first attempt by the Government to respond. During the budget debate it was made clear that the total child care package will be introduced incrementally. It is essential that the increment announced be the first of the increments and not the last. It is expected that more will be done, and more needs to be done in this area.

While I welcome the early child care supplement as a centrepiece of the response, the measure must extend to children over six years of age. Many working parents must make arrangements to have their children minded before their children go to school, and after school, before they are collected by their parents. Very often they must be cared for on a full-time basis during school holidays. The expense is also carried by parents with children over six.

The early child care supplement is very welcome but it must be regarded as a beginning. That it is being made universally and disregards the means by which the household income is derived makes it particularly welcome to low-income families.

I will be less than complimentary about the section on child minders. The self-employed are liable to pay a social insurance contribution of €253 per annum. This is to be deducted from €10,000, which is the maximum one can earn under the tax exemption. It applies if one cares for up to three children. It brings no pension or social welfare entitlements because those caring for children in their own homes will be regarded as self-employed. Those doing the caring, who are mainly women, will be expected to mind up to three children, which is a fairly onerous task, in their own homes while earning no more than €195 per week, or €5 per hour. That is substantially less than the minimum wage. They will not be allowed to make claims in respect of expenses, such as extra heating costs, which are associated with their work even though it is termed self-employment. There is a view among child minders to whom I have spoken that their work is being grossly undervalued, essentially by the imposition of an annual limit of €10,000. The threshold needs to be reconsidered because if it is allowed to stand people will not be queueing to avail of this measure. I ask the Minister to reconsider the extent of the limit. The Government is considering making it compulsory to participate in a pension programme, even though no pension provisions are being put in place for people in the group I mentioned.

I wish to discuss the new provisions in the Bill relating to maternity leave, many of which are welcome. It is understandable that some people currently on maternity leave are upset because the extended maternity leave system will not apply to them. The Minister for Finance said in his Budget Statement in December that "the Government is particularly conscious of the importance of the first year of life to a child's development". He went on to refer to the long-lasting benefits of making adequate provision during this time. He promised that from March 2006, "mothers of new-born children will have an additional four weeks' paid maternity leave", but that is not the case for pregnant women who start their maternity leave before the date on which this measure will commence. If they start their maternity leave the day before the new provisions come into operation, they will not be able to avail of extended maternity leave. It is something that could be changed without costing a fortune. I am sure it could be dealt with administratively in the Department of Social and Family Affairs. I understand the argument that it should not apply to women who are nearing the end of their maternity leave, but it is unfair on women who will commence maternity leave just before the relevant date.

I wish to mention a provision relating to paternity leave I would have liked to have seen included in this Bill. I describe myself as a feminist who believes that feminism is about seeking equality. That fathers are not generally entitled to paid paternity leave, in this day and age, is a gross inequality that needs to be tackled. A father is entitled to paid leave only if, tragically, the mother of his child dies. An adopting father is only entitled to leave if he is the sole adopter, which is something I cannot recall ever happening.

The review of the property-based tax incentive schemes showed us the extent to which the Government has been prepared to subsidise bricks and mortar at the expense of people. This issue was not taken seriously until voters raised it on the doorsteps. I welcome the steps which are being taken. I hope the changes which are being made this year will not be forgotten next year. While I welcome some elements of this Bill, much more needs to be done in respect of some of the matters I have specified.

I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak about the Social Welfare Law Reform and Pensions Bill 2006, which represents a step in the right direction. While the Bill has a number of positive elements, I do not think it is sufficiently radical. In some cases, it tinkers at the edges rather than tackling the problem head-on. There continues to be a number of anomalies in certain sectors and various groups are still losing out. The Government is in a position to make radical changes to our social welfare system, to put adequate and comprehensive child care supports in place, to deal in an equitable way with this country's tens of thousands of carers and to sort out our pensions system. Although the Minister for Social and Family Affairs is in a position to be generous, he has not been generous in some cases.

I welcome the provision of an early child care supplement and the increase in child benefit rates, but such allocations will meet just a fraction of the cost of providing child care, which is increasing every day. Excellent child care and pre-school facilities are provided in many European countries, especially the Nordic countries, but that is not the case in Ireland, despite the best efforts of many community groups which are trying to provide child care facilities. I appreciate this digression relates to the remit of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, rather than that of the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. Community groups have been struggling for many years to raise funds and draw up plans. They have undertaken needs assessments and demographic profiles in conjunction with county child care committees, planners and officials in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. They have submitted their plans as advised, ensuring all health and safety requirements are met. They have submitted budgets which have been agreed by everyone. In some cases, they have been turned down or been awarded grants which are €100,000, €200,000 or €300,000 less than what they need. I have seen community groups in Inishcrone and other places in my constituency being put in an impossible situation. It makes no sense to leave groups which have jumped through hoops in their attempts to provide accessible and equitable child care services hundreds of thousands of euro short. If such groups were up and running and providing the services which are needed, the early child care supplement would be more valuable. While it is welcome, it will meet just a fraction of what is needed.

I will deal with two further issues in the short time available to me. If ever there was a case for generosity, the Minister needs to be generous to carers now. He could have achieved an A grade in his treatment of carers, but he has achieved a C grade, at best, to date. We all welcome the extension of carer's benefit to two years and the increase to €1,200 in the respite grant. I am not pleased, however, that the means test, or the "mean test", continues to apply because it results in most carers not being looked after at all. I refer to people who are happy to do important work quietly with patience and concern, day after day, saving the State hundreds of millions of euro each year in the process. Such people are not looking for hundreds of millions of euro, but for a reasonable allowance that will allow them to live in some sort of reasonable dignity while they look after those who need care.

I would like to raise an issue that relates to the pensions of carers. There is an absolute need to ensure carers who work the required number of hours, whose contributions records have been interrupted, qualify for some type of carer's credit so they are not penalised when they reach pension age. I will speak about the circumstances in which such problems arise. We should ensure people who take time out to look after those who need care are not penalised. Their contributions records should not mean they have reduced pensions because that would add insult to injury. I spoke earlier about this matter, in respect of which the Minister needs to take action.

I mentioned some of the anomalies in the social welfare system, particularly in the pensions system. I refer to the problems encountered by people who do not have full contributions, for various reasons, and find themselves on reduced pensions. Many women who worked in the public service and paid PRSI when they were young had to give up that work because of the marriage bar that was in place at the time. They did not have a choice — the State forced them to stop working. Many of them went back to work in the 1980s and 1990s and now have reduced pensions, through no fault of their own. Similar problems are faced by people who were forced to emigrate. I refer to people who had no choice but to take the boat and work overseas in difficult circumstances. They were not paying any pension or health care contributions, but instead were sending their savings home. Although the remittances of emigrants paid for the State's entire education budget in the 1960s, when those people come home they are given reduced pensions. We owe such people a debt because the Celtic tiger was built on their shoulders. We could repay that debt if we chose to deal with this issue. I would like to make a short response to Deputy Ring's remarks in this context. I ask him to not to mix up people who are moving from one European country to another, as people from counties Mayo, Sligo and Leitrim and elsewhere did when they went to work abroad. Like many other Irish people, I will attend a demonstration in Washington next week aimed at ensuring that Irish people who went to America can have their affairs regularised. We cannot do that on the one hand, while linking these two issues on the other hand.

Hear, hear.

Hear, hear.

One should not link the deficiencies and difficulties in the Department of Social and Family Affairs, such as wrong and inappropriate inspectors' decisions, with people who are moving from one country to another. I ask Deputy Ring and others not to link those issues because that only leads to trouble. The Minister has taken a number of positive steps for women, yet we have still not got equality as a right. Women should have an automatic entitlement as a qualifying individual.

People with established disabilities have extra costs above and beyond the norm. Not everyone gets a mobility allowance as it is means tested. There are extra costs associated with disability, such as special clothes, aids and appliances, special feeding utensils and so on. Other costs include occupational therapy equipment, which may or may not be available on a medical card. Some people do not have enough free hours provided by their personal assistants and must pay for the extra hours themselves. Sometimes, mobility allowance does not cover the cost of the travel involved, which represents more expense on the disabled person. That may cost an extra €60 per week. Heating costs are not adequately covered. The fuel allowance has increased but it is not enough as a bag of coal costs €11. The community welfare officer may or may not be able to help on such an issue. If a person is living alone, he or she may get allowances which he or she may not get otherwise, such as an electricity allowance. However, a person with a disability cannot do without a mobile phone, which is a further cost. All these costs work out at about €3,000 per annum for the disabled person.

I welcome the earnings disregard of €100 for widows, widowers, deserted wives and prisoners' wives. I have been calling for this for a while and I congratulate the Minister on introducing it. I also welcome the carer's benefit, but the Minister should look at the plight of elderly carers. Who cares for the carers? I also welcome the even way in which child welfare payments have been increased between those who choose to work and those who choose to be homemakers.

People with illnesses or disabilities, or lone parents, should be encouraged into education and training. People with illnesses and disabilities need the services of a personal assistant, but problems in accessing funding exist. The cuts in VTOS courses in rural areas create a disincentive for those who wish to be trained. Personal assistants are a lifeline to many disabled people and the mainstreaming of FÁS personal assistants is essential to ensure continuity. What is the possibility of extending the early child care supplement of €1,000 per child under six years of age to children up to 14? A reduced amount of €500 could be awarded to parents of children aged six to 14 as it is needed for after school care, school uniforms and so on. The Bill provides that childminders in their own home can earn €10,000 tax free, but if a minder earns €10,500, he or she pays tax on the total amount. That person should only be taxed on the €500 over the threshold so that more people are encouraged to become childminders. The lone parent's income limit has been increased from €293 to €375 and that will encourage more lone parents to look for a job.

I have raised the issue of free travel for our UK emigrants when they are home on their holidays. I know that the Minister is championing that and I hope he puts all his effort into it. It is of great symbolic importance to our emigrants. I have campaigned strongly for it over the years, as have many others. It is a source of great disappointment that we still do not have free travel for our emigrants when they are home on holidays. The Minister was strongly advised by the Attorney General that it is not possible to extend free travel without extending it to all EU citizens. I know he is working to add this provision to the Irish pension, automatically providing it to those in receipt of Irish pensions, which would not constitute discrimination. Travel concessions exist for old age pensioners in both jurisdictions travelling between here and Northern Ireland. The Minister stated that if he granted the concession to one part of the UK, he would have to give it to everyone, but if it already exists between this country and Northern Ireland, it should be allowed between here and Britain. The Minister also mentioned that inter-territorial travel is applied if the land mass is contiguous, as Northern Ireland is with this State. The common travel area between the UK and Ireland predates our entry into the EU and should allow for this concession.

I welcome this Bill. Like the curate's egg, it is very good in parts, but there is much more to be done. I ask the Minister to consider free travel for emigrants when they are here on holidays.

I thank the Deputies for their consideration of Second Stage of this Bill. I will bring forward a small number of technical amendments on Committee Stage. I would like to deal with many of the items raised during this debate on Committee Stage because they are very detailed. Deputy Connaughton listed four or five cases involving individuals and I would like to deal with those issues in detail on Committee Stage.

I apologise to those Deputies who feel that we are dealing with this Bill too quickly. That was not my intention, but it was just the way it happened on the day. I particularly regret inconveniencing Deputies Stanton and Penrose who had to respond at one day's notice to the legislation. The process has slowed down since then, but I appreciate that it was a bit unfair to them. It was not intentional, but the Bill appeared on the Order Paper rapidly.

Deputy Stanton raised a number of issues to which I would like to respond. The NESC was asked by the Government to examine the amalgamation of the FIS and the CDA. It has produced a draft report, which is being examined. It is complicated because of its interaction with the income tax system. Issues include how to taper it, where the cut-off is made and enuring that we do not introduce another poverty trap in the middle of it all. I am anxious to obtain a solid proposal from the NESC that I can put into action. Child benefit and the CDA are still being paid this year, with the new child care payment so we are now faced with three child related payments. To add a fourth payment in this year would over-complicate the system.

The Deputy also made the point that many do not know about the family income supplement so I have decided to start a campaign next week. Simple departmental advertisements will be placed on radio, television and national media, pointing out that a person can get between €20 and €400 per week if he or she has a family on low income, depending on the means and the size of the family. I hope that campaign will attract many people. The number of people on FIS at present is approximately 17,000.

The Deputy also spoke about the need for targets when dealing with poverty. The current figure for poverty is 6.6% if one takes the consistent poverty level and 6.8% on another measure. It is 6.6% on a proposed new measure. I presume the target is zero but putting a timeframe on getting it from 6.6% to zero is another day's work. I could not offer one at present. I also take the view that the poverty and deprivation measures are getting mixed up with lifestyle indicators and social exclusion. Some of the items which we would term social exclusion and which apply to lifestyle are being mixed up in many cases with what constitutes poverty. A poor lifestyle is not poverty, it is a poor lifestyle. We must ensure we get the measurements right. I am working with the figures of 6.8% and 6.6% of the adult population. The ESRI will shortly launch a report, at my request, which seeks to find a better way of measuring poverty.

Deputy Stanton also took me to task about the whereabouts of the famous reforms I regularly mention. In short, the lone parents proposals will be published shortly. I have published the pension reforms. There is a list of activation measures, which I have outlined many times, about increasing disregards and so forth. All this is moving in the direction of reform.

Deputy Penrose asked about abolishing the means test for the carer's allowance. I have an open mind about this but, as I have told Deputy Penrose, the cost of that in a full year would be €140 million. If I have that amount of money, do I remove a means test? It is handy and clean to ask that there be no means test for carers but would it not be better to give the €140 million to carers who need it, as opposed to carers who are well off and do not need it? It is a question public representatives must deal with. We can follow the popular line of abolishing the means test and applying the allowance universally, as Deputy Higgins said. I have an open mind on the subject and will listen to further debate on it but if I have €140 million for carers, is that the best use of such resources?

My response to the issue of carers was to make the carer's allowance the largest single individual allowance at €200 per week. That demonstrates our commitment to carers. We have also increased the respite grant from €1,000 to €1,200 and increased the disregard for the means test for carer's allowance to €290 for a single person and €580 for a couple. Many Deputies, particularly Deputy Boyle, said more must be done for carers. The respite grant is not means-tested but universal. A total of 34,000 people get it at present and 24,000 people get the allowance. We will keep an open mind about the means test. I accept Deputy Boyle's point that we can never do enough for the people who care for others. It relieves pressure on the hospital and nursing home system so it is a good investment and good use of taxpayers' funds. We have put substantial funds into this area this year and last year and, hopefully, we will continue to do so.

Deputy Boyle also asked when we will start to phase out the pre-retirement allowance. I propose to do so from September. There are 11,000 on that scheme. These are people of 55 years of age. The scheme was introduced in the 1980s when unemployment was high. When people reached 55 they effectively went on to a permanent payment, for the rest of their lives, equal to unemployment assistance. Now that there is almost full employment and a strongly growing economy, the scheme is no longer relevant.

It would not be fair to interfere with the people who are already on the scheme, given that they have made their lifestyle arrangements but it is fair to stop the scheme from September. That will put about 2,000 people onto the live register because that is roughly the number that would start on the scheme from next September. In short, the 11,000 people who are on the allowance will remain on it. Natural wastage will conclude the scheme. From next September there will be no new entrants on that scheme. They will be able to go on disability, unemployment, illness or a plethora of other allowances but not this one.

Deputy Catherine Murphy asked me about child care. I accept the points she made but a child care regime has now been introduced. There is a payment of €1,000 per annum for every child under six years of age. The first payment will be made in August, the second will be paid in September and the third will, I hope, be paid in December. It depends on how the Christmas dates work out but we will try to get three payments out this year. My Department is administering the scheme on behalf of the Minister of State with responsibility for children.

I am especially pleased that we decided to include childminders in the PRSI system. I am aware that takes €253 per annum out of their €10,000 but it is the right thing to do. I have been calling for more people to be covered by pensions so it would be illogical when I get the first opportunity to include people in a pension scheme to miss it. For that reason I have included them in the PRSI system.

They will pay the €253 as a self-employed person, as it were. That will entitle them in due course, assuming they have the required number of contributions, to maternity benefit and, importantly, a contributory pension. If we did not do this, I will bet they would confront whoever is in this office in five or ten years saying: "We were minding those children for all those years but had no contributions and now we have no pension." We would regret not including them in the scheme so we are right to do it now. I acknowledge the part played by the election in Kildare North on this issue. It would be foolish not to admit that it certainly accelerated matters and got us started on the process.

Deputy Cowley has spoken to me many times about free travel. I am strongly committed to this issue and am making good progress with regard to free travel North and South. I have been in contact again in recent days with the Northern Ireland authorities and we are close to an agreement whereby our citizens can have free travel throughout the North and Northern Ireland citizens can do the same in the Republic. I believe we will conclude an agreement quite quickly. It is still complicated but we are nearly at a resolution.

The east-west dimension is much more difficult. The Deputy asked what was the difference between the two but it is a land mass and common travel area issue. In a range of legislative and administrative matters, Northern Ireland has been distinguished from rest of the United Kingdom for good historical reasons. The two are not quite the same legally although constitutionally it is the same country. I can deal with this more thoroughly on Committee Stage if the Deputy wishes. I have not given up on the east-west arrangement and it is something I would like to do. It is not a matter of money but of law. At present, the only choice facing me appears to be to include everybody over a certain age from all 25 member states of the EU but that is not practical. However, I will continue to work on the issue. I also took note of the Deputy's comments on disability benefits and the cost of disability.

Deputy Dan Wallace spoke, quite rightly, about the benefits of volunteering and the need for it to continue. I take this opportunity to thank the many voluntary organisations. My Department now accounts for one third of all Government spending and this year will spend more than €13 billion. Even that, however, is not enough. We could not make the type of inroads we are making on social exclusion if it were not for the large number of voluntary organisations such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, to mention just one although I could name hundreds. I join Deputy Wallace in thanking them and I thank all Deputies for their positive contributions. I will take careful note of what has been said and will try to respond as best I can. I look forward to Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
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