Private Members’ Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

Before the commencement of Private Members' Business, I remind members that the subject-matter of the motion relates in part to a sitting tribunal of inquiry established by the Houses under the relevant Acts. As Members are aware, the Chair has ruled on a number of occasions that issues before a tribunal are not a matter for the Dáil. The Dáil must not attempt to have a parallel tribunal on these matters. While the motion has broad policy implications which are clearly in order for debate, reference to direct evidence before a tribunal by named or identifiable individuals who have not been convicted of any offence should not be made. There is an onus on Members to ensure their contributions are not in breach of Standing Order No. 56 which states:

[A] matter shall not be raised in such an overt manner so that it appears to be an attempt by the Dáil to encroach on the functions of the Courts or a Judicial Tribunal[.]

I ask Members to bear this in mind when making their contributions.

Mr. Boyle

Is the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism taking the debate? We had been expecting the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Mr. Sargent

I move:

"That Dáil Éireann, in view of the on going and damning admissions that senior politicians have received payments, which can only have been made to promote certain vested interests at the expense of the common interest of the Irish people, their families and communities:

—condemns those parties that have failed to discipline their members for their collective amnesia with regard to moneys received from developers and their agents at the time of wide-scale rezonings by local authorities;

—deplores the culture of alleged corrupt planning and rezoning that has resulted in urban sprawl, where schools, playgrounds, local jobs and public transport were not provided in tandem with housing;

—regrets the Government's continual and overwhelming support for the interests of private developers over the public interest, which has resulted in its failure to provide a suitable mix of social and affordable homes; and

—condemns the poor transport planning which in combination with questionable rezoning led to a doubling of the average commuting distance between 1991 and 2002, resulting in a significant deterioration in people's quality of life; calls on all parties to:

—decline funding from developers, as the mere acceptance of such moneys may be constructed as having an undue influence on development decisions;

—put in place measures to ensure that the majority of the increase of value in rezoned land shall accrue to the State and endorse the recommendation of the Kenny report of 1974 that would allow local authorities to purchase land for housing at the existing use value plus 25%; and

—create properly planned communities that are well-designed, that contain a variety of housing types and tenures, with mixed-use developments, and that are well-linked by sustainable transport links.

Mr. Cuffe

I wish to share time with Deputies Gormley, Boyle, Ó Caoláin, Ó Snodaigh, Harkin, Finian McGrath, and Cowley.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Cuffe

As the Green Party prepares for its annual convention in Kilkenny this weekend I wish to speak to a motion regarding the ongoing and damning admissions that senior politicians have received payments over the years which can only have been made to promote certain vested interests at the expense of the common good of the people, their families and communities.

I do not often read the Old Testament but Solomon's words in the Book of Proverbs or Ezekiel in the Jewish faith contain some insight as to what was going on in Dublin County Council in the 1980s and 1990s. Book of Proverbs, Chapter 29, verse 18 reads, "Where there is no vision the people perish but he that keepeth the law, happy is he".

Politicians of all persuasions have to provide a vision but sadly in the chamber of Dublin County Council on O'Connell Street there was no vision at that time and the chequer-board pattern of land rezonings in north-west and south Dublin sowed the seeds of urban sprawl that continues to haunt us today. At the time the Green Party raised its voice about what was going on but that voice was drowned out by the snuffling of corrupt public representatives at the trough in Patrick Conway's pub on Parnell Street, around the corner from the council chamber on O'Connell Street. Some others had voiced concern. Frank McDonald and Mark Brennock from The Irish Times had dissected the dubious rezonings that had occurred. The Irish Planning Institute had publicly questioned what had been going on and the barrister, Michael Smith, and his colleague, Colm Mac Eochaidh had offered a £10,000 reward for information on alleged planning corruption. It is a damning indictment that in the current Government the Taoiseach has failed to condemn or discipline the members of his party sitting in the Oireachtas who have suffered collective amnesia in regard to the payments they received. At a time when members of my party were running election campaigns on a budget of hundreds of pounds Fianna Fáil was accepting thousands upon thousands of pounds and forgetting about it afterwards. They were dangerous times for speaking out and I would like to think we have moved on but many of the county councillors who made questionable rezonings then are still sitting on seats in Dublin City Council. Even Senator Don Lydon who caught our party leader in a headlock in the Dublin County Council——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled that it is not appropriate to name members who——

Mr. Cuffe

Even a Senator who is still sitting in the other House——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to obey the ruling of the Chair or he will have to resume his seat.

Mr. Cuffe

I accept your ruling. Even Senators still sitting in the Upper House performed questionable acts back then. I note that an individual sitting in the Upper House admitted to the tribunal that he failed to disclose a £2,500 donation from Monarch Properties in 1992. The same individual caught my party leader in a headlock. It is time for the Taoiseach to take action and call to account those in his party who suffered from amnesia. Curious rezonings are still going on around Ireland. One need only glance at the website Irishcorruption.com to see many of the counties throughout Ireland being named and the individual acts of councillors who are performing rezonings for all the wrong reasons today.

It is not a victimless crime. It is the people who suffer, those who have to commute longer distances to work, those who have no option of public transport who must have a car to drive several miles to buy a litre of milk, whose children have to be shoved into the car to get to school, and whose workplace is located dozens of miles from where they live. That is the legacy of corrupt rezoning that continues to today. It is time a line was drawn in the sand by the Taoiseach and members of the Cabinet to rule out those kinds of rezoning.

The only action taken by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was to call to attention Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council for not rezoning enough land and the debased currency under his tenure and previous Ministers for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government continues without a whimper from successive Ministers.

The way forward is simple. All parties must decline funding from developers as the mere acceptance of such moneys is an undue influence on development decisions. We have to put in place measures to ensure the majority of the increase of value in rezoned land accrues to the State and we have to endorse and legislate for the recommendations of the Kenny report of 1974. Put simply, that report stated that local authorities should have a pre-emptive right to acquire rezoned land at the existing use value plus 25%. That, in one fell swoop, would remove the influence brought to bear on elected representatives. It would also help to reduce the crazy house price inflation of recent years. It would allow local authorities to buy land for development for housing, for local authority housing, voluntary housing associations and affordable housing. That would slice a significant chunk off the over-heated prices in the marketplace.

There is an onus on the Taoiseach to act. He was handed the ninth report of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution almost two years ago which contains the recommendations of the Kenny report and has failed to legislate. The Taoiseach should not only move against Members of the Government but on those recommendations that have held the test of time. Time and again in the property pages we note that lands have increased tenfold and 100 fold in value overnight as a result of questionable rezonings. The answer is simple and the Minister could move on that if the will was there but, sadly, I doubt the will is there.

We also need to create properly planned communities. They need to be well-designed and contain a variety of housing types and tenures. The Minister must upgrade the building regulations that have fallen far behind what is on the Statute Book in the UK. We need a mixture of uses in development, rather than sterile industrial estates located miles from where people live. We need to encourage people to live, work and relax within the same neighbourhood. That can be done and if the Minister is mindful he can make that happen through the use of planning regulations. We also need to ensure these communities are well linked by sustainable transport. In partnership with his colleague, the Minister for Transport, he can make that happen and I urge him to do so.

Mr. Gormley

When I became a Member almost nine years ago the revelations regarding the former Minister, Ray Burke, surfaced. It is important to cast our minds back to that time. I have the distinction of being the first Deputy to call for the resignation of the former Minister, Ray Burke. At the time a commentator said to me that it was a low blow. It was not, it was the truth. I remember a Fianna Fail backbencher, a fairly decent bloke, standing up and asking me if I was trying to tell him that if somebody put £30,000 on a table in front of me that I would not take it. I said I would not. He rolled his eyes up to heaven and walked off. That says something about the culture of the time. It says that the person who does not take money is the oddball and that it would be human to take the money.

My colleague, Deputy Cuffe, said we should draw a line in the sand. I remember the former Minister, Ray Burke, standing in front of the gates of this House telling us he had drawn a line in the sand. I also recall the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, saying she had full confidence in Ray Burke. Does the Tánaiste have confidence now in all her Fianna Fáil colleagues? I suspect the reason she is not saying anything is that she too has been part of that culture. I also believe the Taoiseach is not taking action because he hopes that tribunal fatigue has set in and that everyone is tarred with the same brush. "Sure they are all at it" is the refrain, but we are not all at it. There are people who do not want to take bribes or, as they now call them, legitimate political donations.

I recall the evening when there was a motion of censure against the former Deputy Liam Lawlor. He was left alone on the backbenches and treated like a pariah. His friends in the Fianna Fáil Party deserted him. I decided to go up and speak to Liam Lawlor. I asked him if he would not make a clean breast of it and tell everything he knew and he replied, "All in my own good time, John". That will not happen now but it is interesting that he had information which he passed on to me. I will not be one of those people who abuse Dáil privilege and reveal this evening what he told me. There are others in this House who abuse Dáil privilege, but I am not one of them.

Mr. F. McGrath

Hear hear.

Mr. Gormley

It is on the record that there were others who voted with Liam Lawlor in the 1980s. That was published in The Sunday Business Post and it is worth going back over it because it reveals the reason the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, does not take action against anybody on the opposite benches. It states:

The Tánaiste proposed or seconded seven motions with the former Deputy Lawlor for section 4 approval or material contravention of the county development plan. The proposed developments included a section 4 directing officials to grant a planning application for a Mr. V. Cosgrove for a restaurant at Rathcoole service station on the Naas Road. A planning official said at the time that "the proposed development would endanger public safety by reason of a traffic hazard".

It goes on to state that there was a development for a Mr. Henry Beattie. The article states:

Mr. Beattie was a Fianna Fáil activist and neighbour of the Tánaiste at the time. A section 4 motion proposed by Deputy Lawlor, seconded by Deputy Harney, directed the council to grant permission to another neighbour of the Tánaiste [that is Mr. Beattie] for a bungalow at Brownstown, Newcastle.

All this is on the record. It further states: "At that stage——

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it the Deputy is not suggesting that there was anything wrong with these proposals——

Mr. Gormley

I am simply reporting what is contained in a newspaper report.

An Ceann Comhairle

——and that he is not making allegations against——

Mr. Gormley

I am saying there is a newspaper report stating all of this information. It states that at that stage, a report had identified the Tánaiste——

Mr. Roche

The Deputy has made a very specific allegation.

Mr. Gormley

——as one of the most active councillors for moving the notorious section 4 and material contravention motions between 1982 and 1983. It further states:

Having proposed ten motions, she occupied joint second spot with two other councillors on the 78 member council. Deputy Lawlor only came in fourth, so he was not up there with the best of them.

Mr. F. McGrath

Free speech.

Mr. Roche

There is a big difference between free speech and libel. Deputy Gormley would not have the courage to do this outside the House.

Mr. Gormley

The Minister, Deputy Roche, said I would not repeat this outside the House, but I certainly would repeat it outside the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

As long as the Deputy is just quoting facts and information I will allow him to continue. He should not make allegations against individuals.

Mr. Gormley

I do not abuse Dáil privilege. I deal in facts and the truth.

Mr. Roche

Is the Deputy accusing the Tánaiste of some wrongdoing?

Mr. Gormley

This is the truth.

Mr. Roche

Is the Deputy accusing her of anything?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, he is not.

Mr. Gormley

The article further states:

Deputy Harney was even more active with section 4 planning motions in 1980 and 1981, working closely with the late Seán Walsh. Deputy Harney proposed or seconded 12 section 4s with the former Fianna Fáil TD.

Is it any wonder the Tánaiste does not take action against Fianna Fáil Deputies? This is the Tánaiste whose colleague, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, said, "Single party Government? No thanks". I do not see any distinction. Where is the distinction between Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats? There is none because they put themselves up as paragons of virtue and the moral guardians of Fianna Fáil. It is a load of rubbish and we all know it. It is regrettable that the facts I have put on the record are not widely known. They should be widely known.

An Ceann Comhairle

Again I draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that he is not entitled to make allegations against——

Mr. Gormley

I have simply quoted the truth.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, Deputy, but it is important that you put them in context. You are not entitled to come into this House and make unsubstantiated allegations against——

Mr. Gormley

May I make one simple observation? You are quite assiduous in dealing with my behaviour but you were not assiduous in dealing with the behaviour here of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, when he made——

An Ceann Comhairle

I was not in the House when the point was made.

Mr. Gormley

——a disgraceful remark about me.

An Ceann Comhairle

I was not in the Chair.

Mr. Gormley

There was no reprimand, yet you are taking me to task now for telling the truth. It is the truth, a Cheann Comhairle. That is why this motion is important and we hope to get the support of all right thinking Deputies.

Mr. Boyle

The Private Members' motion before the House this evening in the name of my party colleague is one of the few opportunities we have had in the 29th Dáil to either bring forward Private Members' legislation or bring to task what we believe are poor standards in the Government's day-to-day operations and in upholding the standards of public life in general. In all the Private Members' time my party has had in this Chamber we were fortunate to have won the support of other Opposition parties and Independent Members of this House. We welcome any process whereby motions we put down are subject to amendment because, unlike others in this House, we do not operate on the maxim of knowing what we know and knowing more than others. On those grounds we look with interest on amendments that have been tabled to our motion by other Opposition parties. They appear to suggest other routes of achieving the same objective and we would be open to such discussions.

Unfortunately, there appears to be a quibble with some of the wording in our substantial motion and I take this opportunity of putting those quibbles to rest. Our motion condemns those parties that have failed to discipline their members. It is fairly accepted that one party more than others has been predominant in all this process but it is also an established fact that other political parties have chosen to discipline their members by other means. There have also been parties of Government during this period which have not done so.

There appears to be a difficulty with the part of our motion that states that funding should be declined from developers. I note in the Labour Party amendment it is willing to set up an all-party grouping to look at means by which all political party funding is examined. We would be prepared to go down that road but in terms of the most recent political history of this country and political decision making, both at local and national level, in the way property developments proceed here, it would be a statement of intent, and not to wait for decisions made in other places, that all political parties in this House would decide that particular types of donations from particular types of corporate entities should no longer be accepted. If other parties have difficulties with that, that is something they need to examine in terms of their own decision making processes.

I share the views of my two party colleagues who opened the debate on the motion regarding the points we are trying to make. It is unfortunate that in the nine years of the lifetime of this intertwined mono-Government, regardless of its intention to appear to be some type of coalition, there has been no attempt to bring forward reforms in this area. There have been no attempts to tackle the culture that existed then and may even exist, albeit on a smaller scale, today. In particular there has been no attempt by the head of the Government to discipline members who have, by public utterances, deviated from what should be normal, accepted standards of public life. Such individuals, when they have been caught out in the nature of their behaviour and the standard of their public representation, still find themselves members of a parliamentary party supporting the interests of the Government and keeping such a Government in power. It is our duty as an Opposition party to question the inconsistency and even the immorality of the lack of action in that area. On these grounds, this Governments stands indicted. The substantive Government amendment is several times longer than the Green Party motion and is nothing other than a sea of verbiage. The Minister makes no attempt to defend the poor standards for which his Government has been responsible.

Our party is not confident that the Government will take on board anything from our motion but we feel confident that the reality of those poor standards in public life will hit home in the coming general election when the electorate makes its decision.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I commend An Comhaontas Glas for tabling this motion and I express the full support of the Sinn Féin Deputies for it. It is often said that the people are suffering from tribunal fatigue. Since 1997, the planning tribunal under Mr. Justice Flood and Mr. Justice Mahon has slowly exposed the complex web of planning corruption in and around our capital city. This has been a very cumbersome and drawn-out process. The tribunals now seldom make the headlines. It is true that many people have switched off, but that does not mean that people have forgotten or have absolved those involved in planning corruption — far from it. The tribunals have been a process of education, confirming what many of us suspected for years — that there was a corrupt relationship between developers, property speculators and the establishment political parties in this State. In recent times, certain senior members of those parties have admitted receiving very large payments.

Although we cannot go into detail, It is crystal clear to anyone with a brain that those payments were not made by developers out of the goodness of their hearts. Conveniently, certain witnesses claim that they have forgotten about payments made to them. The tribunal may find that in most or all cases, there was no evidence of illegality. It may not even use the word "corruption", but only the most naive and the most partisan can refuse to believe that Dublin County Council in the 1980s was rotten with corruption. The developers and speculators called the shots.

Two questions arise. What was the result and what has changed? The result was bad planning on a massive scale. People were housed in what were often badly built and badly serviced estates with few facilities. We live with the legacy of that to this day. Large and often sub-standard local authority estates were built with communities experiencing high unemployment. The speculators stripping the inner city for profit forced long-established communities out of the city and into these suburbs. That is part of the forgotten human cost of corruption.

The brown envelope culture has been exposed but it has been replaced with the institutionalised brown envelope. This Government's housing policy is driven not by the housing needs of families and individuals but by the profit motive of developers and speculators who still call the shots. Early this month housing figures exposed the abject failure of this Government's social and affordable housing policy. They confirmed that we now have legalised and institutionalised bribery of local authorities by developers, facilitated by this Government. It has allowed developers to bribe their way out of providing social housing under Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000. As originally passed, this Act required developers to devote 20% of each housing development to social and affordable housing. The friends of Fianna Fáil in the construction industry raised an almighty clamour and the Act was amended to allow them to side-step this obligation by paying money or providing land to local authorities. Seldom has a lobby succeeded in getting a law changed in such a short time.

The amending legislation to allow the developers off the hook was rammed through the Dail with the use of the guillotine in December 2002 and it has turned out exactly as we predicted. It has done nothing to provide homes for those most in need of them. It has fuelled the spiralling cost of housing and encouraged property speculation. We now find that of 80,000 new homes built last year, only 830 were allocated to local authorities under Part V of the Act. That is not much more than 1% of all housing and is a far cry from the intended 20%. Since 2002, more than 230,000 homes have been completed for sale on the market, a third of which are second homes or owned by investors. At the best estimate, just over 1,600 have been provided under Part V of the Act. That is pathetic.

When Part V was introduced in 1999 the then Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, said "the plan will lead to an additional 35,000 local authority units, an increase in the voluntary housing sector provision of houses . . . to 4,000 a year and an increase to 2,000 units per year under the current local authority affordable housing and shared ownership schemes". That reads like a bad joke. Less than 6% of all housing now being built is local authority housing. More than 130,000 people are denied decent housing in one of the wealthiest states in Europe. When I raised this with the Taoiseach recently at Leaders' Questions, his ears were closed. If the Government were really sincere about housing and planning, it would reinstate the requirement on developers to provide homes under Part V, implement the recommendations in the report of the National Economic and Social Forum and set a target for the provision of homes for the 43,600 households on local authority waiting lists.

I have been calling for a just social housing policy since my election in 1997. There is no prospect that this Government will change course in its remaining time in power. I can only hope that we can place our trust and faith in the people and that we will see real and substantive change after the next general election.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Ba mhaith liom an deis seo a thógaint chun mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an Chomhaontas Glas as ucht an rún tábhachtach seo a chur faoi bhráid na Dála.

Is ait liom — b'fhéidir nach bhfuil sé chomh hait sin — go bhfuil an chéad chomhrialtas eile, nach bhfuil ann fós, fiú, scoilte ar an gceist seo. Chuireadar leasuithe síos atá ag lagú an rúin seo. Bhí mé ag súil lena leithéid ó Fhianna Fáil, le stair na caimiléireachta atá aige maidir leis an phróiseas pleanála sa tír seo, ach cad faoi Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre agus an leasú atá curtha síos aige ar an rún seo? Ba chóir go mbeadh sé ag tacú agus ag cur leis seachas é a lagú

Ní gá dúinn ach smaoineamh ar an stair a bhí ag an pháirtí sin nuair a bhí sé i Rialtais le páirtithe éagsúla thar na blianta. Ba cheart dúinn smaoineamh orthu siúd a bhí ar na comhairlíáitiúla thar ceann na bpáirtithe sin, a bhí ag glacadh na gcinnithe agus ag cur saibhris i dtreo lucht an rachmais sa Stát seo, i bhfoirm athghrádáil thailte, go háirithe timpeall Bhaile Átha Cliath. Tá a leithéid tar éis tarlú timpeall na tíre, an chaimiléireacht atá bainteach le hathghrádáil thailte, ag cur luach as cuimse le talamh talmhaíochta.

Cé a bhí agus cé atá fós thíos leis na cinnithe seo, atá bunaithe ar bhreabanna ó rachmasaithe agus tógálaithe, ó leithéidí Gallagher, Gilmartin agus Dunlop, a bhí sásta airgead a chaitheamh timpeall chun a bhealach a bheith acu seachas ar son leas an phobail mar ba chóir? Sin an fáth gur toghadh daoine — chun leas an phobail a chur chun cinn, seachas a bpócaí féin a líonadh nó pócaí a gcarad. Is iad na daoine atá fós thíos leis seo ná gnáth chosmhuintir na hÉireann.

Cén fáth ar tógadh bóithre de shíor seachas airgead na hEorpa a infheistiú i gcóras taistil poiblí, le traenacha agus busanna? Tá níos mó brabúis ar fáil ag feirmeoirí Fhianna Fáil agus Fhine Gael, timpeall Bhaile Átha Cliath ach go háirithe, as mótorbhealaí a thiomáint tríd a dtailte, nuair nach gá ach dual carriageway a thógaint. Ba chóir córas ceart iarnróid a thógaint mar a bhí sa tír seo 50 nó 100 bliain ó shin. Ní gá ach féachaint ar stair na ceiste seo — ar na heastáit tithíochta ar fad gan seirbhísí bunúsacha timpeall orthu, scoileanna, siopaí, tionsclaíocht, áiseanna spóirt, áiseanna do leanaí, uisce fiú, bóithre, agus cosáin.

Mr. O’Dowd

Agus bancanna.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Cé a dhein an phleanáil seo ach iad siúd a bhí sna páirtithe sin, Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil agus Páirtí an Lucht Oibre? Bhídís ag glacadh breabanna an t-am ar fad.

Mr. O’Dowd

Cé a thóg an t-airgead ón Tuaisceart? Nárbh é an Teachta é féin?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Ba cheart don Teachta an cheist sin a chur ar a chairde féin.

Mr. O’Dowd

Ní ghlacfaidh mé le haon cheist ón Teachta Ó Caoláin.

Mr. Roche

At least they were not robbing banks.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Níl an ré sin thart go fóill. Ní gá dúinn ach féachaint ar na heastáit nua timpeall Bhaile Átha Cliath, agus fiú i mbailte 100 míle ó Bhaile Átha Cliath. B'fhéidir go bhfuil athrú tagtha ar na clúdaigh dhonna, ach tá an rud ann fós. Tá an chaimiléireacht fós i gceist sna páirtithe sin, mar is iadsan atá fós ag déanamh na gcinnithe céanna. Níl aon loighic le roinnt de na cinnithe móra atá déanta sa tír seo maidir le tógáil mótorbhealaí nó príosúin nua in Thornton Hall. Ba cheart dúinn féachaint ar an mótorbhealach atá ag dul trí Theamhair. Tá siad ag díol beairicí do lucht an rachmais, na tógálaithe, seachas d'údaráis áitiúla. Níl aon loighic ar na cinnithe seo seachas go bhfuil an Rialtas ag iarraidh slad a dhéanamh ar an oidhreacht agus an timpeallacht chun a bpócaí féin a líonadh. Tá sé sin fós ag tarlú. Nuair a fhéachtar siar 20 bliain, tá an t-airgead sin fós ann, agus deirim go bhfuil brú fós ar an chosmhuintir bogadh as Baile Átha Cliath, mar níl siad ábalta maireachtáil agus tithe a cheannach i mBaile Átha Cliath, nó fiú i mbailte móra eile timpeall na tíre.

Molaim an rún seo, agus tacaím go hiomlán leis. Ba chóir d'Fhine Gael agus do Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre na leasuithe a tharraingt siar agus tacú leis an Chomhaontas Glas agus leo siúd atá sásta seasamh suas maidir leis an cheist seo.

Ms Harkin

I am happy to speak on this motion, and while I fully support its thrust, I have one small caveat. I would not want to suggest that all builders and developers should be tarred with the same brush. There are those in the construction sector who are not corrupt and do not pass brown envelopes to people but who make a vital contribution to the economy.

However, there are ongoing and shocking revelations in tribunals. Part of the problem may be that we are so used to hearing such revelations that they are no longer shocking, and ordinary people simply shrug their shoulders with grim acceptance of a totally corrupt situation. In that context, I fully understand, accept and support this motion's intent. I was not a member of Dublin County Council in the dark days referred to by the Green Party. In that context, I commend those who stood up and were counted, shedding some light on this dark and corrupt corner of Irish life. We owe those people a debt, since they put their heads above the parapet and risked ridicule, which at times was heaped upon them.

There have been far too many instances of unacceptable methods being used by certain developers seeking the zoning or rezoning of land. There has also been an unacceptable accumulation of large land banks by a small number of developers who have been placed in a position to dictate the excessive cost of housing throughout the country and especially in the Dublin area. Land acquired for development should be built on within a short time or surrendered at an equitable price to be used for its zoned purpose. If that mechanism existed, we would not have the current, totally unacceptable situation where numbers of social and affordable houses built are massively short of Government targets. It reflects once again the unacceptable influence of developers on the Government.

I see particular merit in the Green Party's call for greatly increased efforts to create properly planned communities. In recent years, there have been some improvements, but they still fall far short of what is needed. We are still building housing estates without adequate infrastructure, especially social infrastructure. There is not adequate community space, indoor or outdoor, for communities to meet, flourish, integrate and create their own sense of identity and pride of place. Communities need adequate child care and recreational facilities. Otherwise, we are actively destroying them.

In this House we speak of children on the street and childhood obesity, yet we are guilty by omission. We have community and voluntary groups and local associations raising money and lobbying every politician in sight, writing tonnes of letters and generating hundreds of Dáil questions and answers. It happens because we still allow developers to build estates and developments without providing the community space. We must live as communities and not as individuals in boxes all in a row.

When we speak of sustainable communities, we must ensure we include rural ones. Given that one third of people live in the country, we must ensure that the choice remains for those who wish to continue to live in rural areas. Current rural housing guidelines are still too restrictive and will not allow rural areas to regenerate themselves or maintain a balance between rural and urban living. I urge the Minister to revisit the current rural housing guidelines——

Mr. Roche

The Deputy should speak to her friends in the Greens about that.

Ms Harkin

——to maintain vibrant rural communities. I also ask the support of the Green Party in seeking a balance between sustainable rural and urban living.

Mr. Roche

The Deputy need not hold her breath.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

The Minister should speak to Wicklow County Council.

Mr. F. McGrath

I am happy to speak in this important debate on payments to politicians, their collective amnesia regarding moneys received, and corrupt planning decisions in wider society. In England, they seem to have loans for peerages, but in this country, it is donations for land rezoning or brown envelopes for contract work. Let us stop kidding the public and call a spade a spade. When senior Ministers or leaders of political parties get donations in envelopes in the middle of the night and then claim not to remember the kind donor, the public simply does not believe them. It is as plain and simple as that. That is the reality and what people on the street are saying.

What a country this is, now that we have a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, who blatantly abuses his power. He shows no respect for due process or the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. He gloats and brags about taking out the Centre for Public Inquiry, which was established to root out corruption and sleaze. He destroyed Frank Connolly's name by leaking files. He stayed silent on the Greysteel massacre and evidence regarding collusion. He huffs and puffs about crime while working-class people are slaughtered on our streets.

This political bully and intellectual snob has to be challenged, and I do so tonight. He is silent regarding his colleagues' amnesia, since he too will look after his powerful and wealthy friends. He should resign and apologise to the Irish people for damaging the integrity of the office of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. This is clearly where I stand. He should also apologise once more to Deputy Gormley and the Green Party for his recent remarks. A little humility might do him well in future.

Regarding the motion, I commend the Green Party for highlighting the sleaze and corruption in Irish political life. I agree with their philosophy and political vision that green politics is clean politics. I advise them, however, not to get into bed with right-wing, conservative, pro-war, pro-greed, pro-exploitation parties. They will destroy that vision and damage their integrity.

Mr. O’Dowd

Perhaps the Deputy should sing those words. I cannot hear him.

Mr. F. McGrath

This motion is about the common interest of the Irish people, their families and communities. Once known as the land of saints and scholars, Ireland today is better known as the land of scandals and tribunals. Politics, banking, the church, business, medicine, law and the gardaí have suffered from an erosion in public confidence in the wake of an astonishing list of scandals. Moreover, Ireland has undergone rapid social, economic and political change over the last decade that has had a profound impact on its value system. For example, the declining authority and influence of the Catholic Church in recent years has forced many to seek other sources of ethical and moral guidance. However, this creates dilemmas of its own. Difficult decisions about the distribution of resources raise awkward questions for society. How is the tension between the rights of individuals and the overall good of society to be resolved? We will not look for guidance from the political elite, the Christian church, the medical and legal professions or from business leaders. All have had their credibility seriously tainted by damaging scandals. Politicians have damaged the integrity of politics. We must face up to this reality and win back politics for the vast majority of the people.

Moreover, the housing situation is a scandal, as we are unable to provide homes for young couples and people on social and affordable housing waiting lists. This is unacceptable. I also challenge those parties which have failed to discipline their members for their collective amnesia with regard to money received from developers and their agents, at a time of widespread rezoning by local authorities. I am amazed at the brass neck of some politicians in this House, Ministers and leaders of Opposition parties included, who state they cannot remember, or found nothing strange or amazing about people coming with envelopes in the middle of the night.

This motion is about honest politics and a fair and just society. It is concerned with cleaning up politics and with decent and quality planning. Finally, it is about respecting our citizens and ensuring a quality of life and future for our children. I urge all Members to support the motion tabled by the Green Party.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche)

I apologise for having laryngitis. My response will not be as robust as it would be otherwise.

Mr. O’Dowd

Praise the Lord.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister, without interruption.

Mr. Roche

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"having established and resourced the Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain Planning Matters and Payments:

—notes the four interim reports of the Tribunal and awaits the findings of the Tribunal on matters currently under examination in public hearings, as well as any overarching recommendations for legislative amendment;

—notes the comprehensive ethics framework applicable to local government councillors and employees under the Local Government Act 2001, supported by separate Codes of Conduct issued under the Act in 2004;

—notes the importance attached by this Government to probity in public office generally, as reflected in the Standards in Public Office Act 2001, the Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Act 2001 and the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004;

—notes the detailed controls in relation to political donations and election spending enacted in the Electoral (Amendment) Act 1998, the Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Act 1999, and the Electoral (Amendment) Act 2001;

—notes the increased transparency of the planning system under the Planning and Development Act 2000;

—commends the Government's commitment to implementing the National Spatial Strategy (NSS) as the strategic national planning framework for achieving more balanced regional development, in the context of Ireland's rapidly changing economic and social circumstances, including population growth which will see the population increasing to around 5 million people by 2020;

—notes that the NSS is having an increasing influence on policies and programmes across a range of Government Departments and agencies, underscored by the Government's decision in July 2005 that the regional dimension of the next National Development Plan, now in preparation, will be broadly based on the NSS;

—notes that at regional level, a key policy bridge between national development priorities and local planning has been put in place with the adoption of Regional Planning Guidelines in each region to provide a strategic framework for local authority development plans and local area plans;

—notes that the priorities of the NSS and regional planning guidelines have been recognised in the Government's 10-year investment plan for transport, Transport 21;

—notes the success of Government policy in expanding the range of housing supports and facilitating record housing output in the face of unprecedented demand;

—notes the requirement upon planning authorities to prepare housing strategies providing for a mixture of house types and sizes to meet the needs of all categories of households, including provision of Part V social and affordable housing, and to zone adequate land to meet these projected housing needs;

—welcomes the record levels of funding being provided for social and affordable programmes, under which, for instance, 23,000 units of social housing will be commenced in 2006-2008;

—endorses the Government's new Housing Policy Framework ‘Building Sustainable Communities', under which active land management strategies are being put in place to support an expanded programme of social housing delivery in mixed community settings; and

—notes the broad range of measures under which an element of the increased value of zoned and serviced land may be recovered, including, development levies, Part V provision of social and affordable housing or its equivalent value, capital gains tax and the Government's readiness, if necessary, to pursue other options in this regard."

While I have a great deal of time for Deputy Cuffe on a personal level, I am amazed at his brass neck in talking about amnesia. Frankly, I am stunned. I like him as a person, but when it comes to the hypocrisy stakes he takes the gold medal, or rather his friends over there on the Sinn Féin benches do so. No one in politics can be happy with what went on in Dublin County Council during those years. However, regardless of what went on in Dublin County Council, something infinitely more sinister was going on over on those benches.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

What is the Minister suggesting?

Mr. Roche

I am pointing at Deputy Ó Caoláin and his colleague, Deputy Ó Snodaigh.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

What is the Minister saying now?

Mr. Roche

It was not just the type of political activity——

Mr. Sargent

What are the allegations now?

Mr. Roche

——and the paramilitary activity and the criminal activity——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Minister should spell it out.

Mr. Roche

——that was supported by the Deputy.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I beg the Minister's pardon. I never did so. The Minister should withdraw——

An Ceann Comhairle

Minister, you should not make unsubstantiated allegations against any Member of the House.

Mr. Roche

In the case of Deputy Ó Snodaigh——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I ask the Minister to withdraw his allegation of association of criminality in any shape or form.

Mr. Roche

For God's sake.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

As for the laughing jackass in the front row of the Fine Gael benches, Deputy O'Dowd, he could show some manners this evening. I ask the Minister to withdraw those remarks.

Mr. Roche

I certainly will not withdraw them.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

They are outrageous and untrue——

Mr. Roche

Sinn Féin was up to its elbows and its ears in criminality and Deputy Ó Caoláin supported it and he supported the slaughter of Irish men and Irish women.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——and the Minister should withdraw them. He should at least learn a lesson from the idiot who passes as a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who was obliged to withdraw the remarks he made over the past 48 hours.

Mr. Roche

The Deputy supported the slaughter of Irish men and Irish women.

An Ceann Comhairle

May the Chair make a point?

Mr. Cuffe

I never engaged in amnesia, unlike the Minister's political colleagues.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Is attack the best form of defence?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair wishes to make a point. It is inappropriate to make remarks, allegations of corruption, of criminality, of anything against individual Members of this House.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

What was the Minister implying about Deputy Cuffe?

An Ceann Comhairle

There is a dividing line between political charges, but it is inappropriate to make any remarks of a personal nature, that a Member was involved in criminality.

Mr. Roche

Allow me clarify the position. I am not making an allegation against either Deputy. However, I am making a very specific allegation against the party and politics that Deputy Ó Caoláin has been——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

No difference——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Ó Caoláin should allow the Chair to deal with the issue.

Mr. Roche

——delighted to support. As Deputy Ó Snodaigh prepares to get on his feet, perhaps he might tell the House what his cronies were doing in Bray. It is a matter of public record what happened when they went to court.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

That has nothing to do with me.

Mr. Roche

Perhaps he should clarify it. If the Deputy is prepared to come into the House——

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Clarify what?

Mr. Roche

If Sinn Féin Deputies are prepared to come into the House and tar brush as they are——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Minister should address the motion before the House instead of always looking for a pound of flesh.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

He is absolutely bankrupt.

Mr. Roche

Perhaps they should. Members should deal with the issues.

Mr. Boyle

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

A point of order from Deputy Boyle.

Mr. Boyle

The Minister has not taken the opportunity to clarify his allegation that Deputy Cuffe had suffered from amnesia in order to cover up some criminal act. That remains on the record of the House and I ask him to withdraw that statement.

Mr. Roche

Deputy Boyle is probably the only Member in the House who does not know what I mean.

Mr. Boyle

That is what the Minister intended.

Mr. Roche

There was a small matter of personal shares. However, we will come back to that.

Mr. Boyle

Where was the amnesia? Where was the criminal act?

Mr. Eamon Ryan

What does the Minister mean?

Mr. Roche

We will return to that. I listened to the Opposition Members with courtesy and in silence and pray that they will do the same for me. First, as to what has been done——

Mr. Boyle

The Minister still has not withdrawn. He has placed a specific allegation on the record of the House.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

What is the Minister implying that Deputy Cuffe did?

Mr. Roche

This is nonsense.

Mr. Boyle

Deputy Cuffe has not been involved in amnesia or in any criminal act——

Mr. Roche

I did not say that Deputy Cuffe was involved in any criminality.

Mr. Boyle

——and the Minister should withdraw his remark.

Mr. Roche

I said absolutely no such thing. I will not withdraw a remark I did not make.

Mr. F. McGrath

The Minister should apologise.

Mr. Roche

I said the man suffers from amnesia, and everybody knows about that.

Mr. Boyle

Knows about what?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has stated that he did not make the remark, which Members must accept.

Mr. Roche

I will not be heckled from my time by this sort of semi-fascistic barracking.

Mr. Boyle

I cannot agree. The Minister stated that Deputy Cuffe was involved in an act of amnesia.

Mr. Roche

He was involved in an act of amnesia.

Mr. Boyle

About what?

Mr. Roche

He forgot about his shareholding.

An Ceann Comhairle

That was a political charge.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

On a point of order——

Mr. Roche

Members should get real.

Mr. Cuffe

I ask the Minister to withdraw what he has just said. He accused me of amnesia with regard to my own dealings. I suffered no amnesia in that regard. I fulfilled every aspect and every letter of the law. I ask the Minister to withdraw his statement.

Mr. Roche

I made no suggestion that the Deputy was involved in criminal activity. However, he was very selective. Let us get on with the issues.

Mr. Cuffe

What was I selective in? I was never selective.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

Again, on a point of order I ask the Minister to withdraw.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will not take a point of order when the Minister is speaking.

Mr. Gormley

The Minister is an absolute disgrace.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Cuffe made a point and the Minister was responding to it and the House will not hear——

Mr. Cuffe

I ask the Minister to withdraw that. There was no amnesia on my part.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister——

Mr. Cuffe

On a point of order, there was no amnesia on my part. It was a deliberate slur by the Minister.

Mr. Roche

I have not made the point that there were any criminal acts. I will say it again here——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has clarified his point. Can we move on with the debate.

Mr. Roche

The Government, since it was first elected——

Mr. F. McGrath

The Minister should resign, along with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Eamon Ryan, on a point of order.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

It is totally inappropriate for the Minister to equate inheriting shares from one's mother with taking a bribe. That is what he is doing and he should withdraw it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry Deputy, that is not a point of order.

Mr. Roche

I did not do that.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

That is exactly what he is doing.

Mr. Roche

No I did not.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister, without interruption.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

This nonsense from the Minister's party for the past three years will not be taken any more.

Mr. Roche

Since the Government was elected in 1997——

Mr. Eamon Ryan

It is complete nonsense. It is the difference between bribery and getting an inheritance from one's mother.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Minister to speak without interruption.

Mr. Roche

Since the Government was elected in 1997, it has done more to tackle corruption than any Government since the foundation of the State. First, it has established tribunals to investigate planning corruption and payments to politicians.

Mr. Cuffe

To bury the issue.

Mr. Roche

Second, it has improved the transparency of the planning system. Third, it has introduced a new regime of ethics in local government. Fourth, it established the Standards in Public Office Commission. Fifth, it introduced new controls over political donations and finally, it modernised the legislation governing corruption.

In that context, the motion tabled by the Green Party and supported, among others, by Sinn Féin, is cynical and opportunistic in the extreme. Given the pop-eyed indignation from the Green Party at reported comments by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform earlier today this motion is also somewhat hypocritical, to put it mildly.

In a blatant attempt at political point scoring, the Green Party Members seek to pre-empt the ongoing work and ultimate findings of a tribunal of inquiry established by the Oireachtas. They also seek to tar all politicians in the main parties of this State as criminals or closet sympathisers.

They ignore the substantial body of legislation introduced by this Government to ensure probity in public office and in the public service. More importantly they ignore the fact that the vast majority of the men and women who serve in political office, from all parties in this State, do so with integrity. The bizarre proposition——

Mr. Boyle

More than the vast majority.

Mr. Roche

The bizarre proposition made by the Deputy opposite, that somehow or other, voting for a section 4 motion, something which I tended not to do, automatically labels the Tánaiste as being in some way improper, is extraordinary.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

It simply explains her silence on this issue.

Mr. Roche

That particular section of law is part and parcel of the democratic law of the land. The vast majority of people from all political parties in this State have nothing to do with hypocrisy or corruption and have served with great integrity. By drawing this broad stroke across all political parties, the Green Party does politics a disservice.

Mr. Gormley

Who does? Everyone would think we all are at it but we are not.

Mr. Roche

Through a mixture of innuendo, allegation and conspiracy theory, they would have us believe that our planning system is corrupt and inefficient, when by any international standard it is open, transparent and effective.

Indeed, the Green Party has some brass neck to preach about the planning process. This is the same party that regularly supports professional protesters who have scant regard for the planning process. We see this in my constituency, where they came out to support professional protestors who have wasted tens of millions of euro in taxpayers' money in the Glen of the Downs and Carrickmines.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

They made a perfectly valid point.

Mr. Cuffe

The Minister brought in a fee to make their views known in the planning process.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Cuffe had his opportunity. It is the Minister's turn.

Mr. Roche

In my constituency a Green Party councillor praised these self-styled eco-warriors, who were a completely unrepresentative and unelected group, as witnesses for democracy.

The Irish planning process has continually been held to ransom by these same protestors. They deliberately conflate a range of important issues in a failed attempt to attack the genuine achievements of the Government in planning and housing delivery, and they endorse a policy proposal that could have major implications for the housing market.

Mr. Cuffe

The Government filleted Part V of the Planning and Development Act 2000.

Mr. Roche

What we have before us is yet another demonstration that the Green Party is incapable of adopting reasoned and realistic policies based on what is achievable in a complex modern society, and remains wedded to rhetoric and simplistic solutions.

Mr. Gormley

Who wrote this ridiculous speech for the Minister? Did he write it himself?

Mr. Roche

The Government has no objections to the sentiment of the Fine Gael amendment. However, the Government has put down its own constructive amendment, outlining what has been done to root out corruption, and we consider that this is a more positive approach. We will be pressing our amendment.

I have no intention of engaging with the Green Party in fruitless discussion or argument concerning recent disclosures at the Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain Planning Matters and Payments. These tribunals which were set up should be allowed to run their course and produce their reports, and then we can deal with them.

Mr. Gormley

What about the Minister's script?

Mr. Roche

The bottom line is that the tribunal was established by the Oireachtas to investigate acts of planning corruption and it continues its work in public hearings.

Mr. Gormley

I thought there was something about Deputy Cuffe in the script that the Minister seems to have skipped.

Mr. Roche

I made the point earlier.

A Deputy

Some people have amnesia.

Mr. Roche

I made it earlier and it caused the Deputy some offence.

Mr. Cuffe

Damn right.

Mr. Roche

So I left it out.

Mr. Cuffe

The Minister could not explain it.

Mr. Roche

I can, I will explain it if you give me time.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Minister address his remarks through the Chair?

Mr. Roche

To date, the tribunal has issued four interim reports, which made certain findings. Following the conclusion of its public hearings, the tribunal will prepare and furnish to the Oireachtas its final report. In this regard, the tribunal has a mandate to make recommendations and, at that stage, we will follow those recommendations.

Mr. Cuffe

We all will be dead at that stage.

Mr. Roche

While we await the completion of the work of the tribunal, the Government has not been slow to put in place reforms to protect the openness, probity, fairness and efficiency in the operation of the planning system. To this end, we have introduced various new measures to improve the openness and transparency, a few of which I will outline. For instance, the Planning and Development Act 2000 extended the existing rules relating to ethics for planning authority staff. It also introduced more opportunities for public consultation and scrutiny of both zoning decisions and the grant of individual planning permissions, and it increased political oversight of the system of development contributions.

As well as changes to the planning code, there have been significant developments in the legislative and regulatory framework governing the conduct of public representatives and public servants. In so far as local government is concerned, the Local Government Act 2001 provided a new and comprehensive ethics framework for local government employees and councillors. As its starting point, the Act provides that it is the duty of every councillor and employee to maintain proper standards of integrity, conduct and concern for the public interest. The framework is based on three basic requirements, first, an annual declaration of a wide range of interests, second, disclosure of any pecuniary or beneficial interest in a matter coming before the authority and, third, a public register of these interests. There is also a requirement to disclose interests in any matter which arises in the performance of functions by the local authority and in which the councillor or employee concerned or a connected person has an interest. Failure to comply with the key requirements of this legislation is an offence and the penalties concerned have been set at a high level to achieve a clear deterrent effect.

In addition, separate national codes of conduct for local authority employees and councillors were published under the Act in 2004. Their purpose is to set out standards and principles of conduct and integrity, to inform the public of the conduct it is entitled to expect and to enhance public trust and confidence in the local government system.

Of course, we already had the Local Elections (Disclosure of Donations and Expenditure) Act 1999, as amended, which sets out comprehensive requirements on the size and disclosure of political donations. The Local Government Act 2001 is bolstered by other public service-wide ethics legislation.

Mr. Boyle

There is no limit to expenditure in local government elections.

Mr. Roche

Under the Prevention of Corruption (Amendment) Act 2001 corruption is presumed where there is proof that certain persons in public office have received money or other benefits from a person who has an interest in the way certain functions are carried out or the outcome of specified decisions, including planning decisions. In effect, this reverses the normal burden of proof. A person who receives a payment in these circumstances will have to prove the payment is not corrupt, instead of the prosecution proving that it was. This should make the prosecution of corrupt payments much easier.

The Standards in Public Office Act 2001 provided for the establishment of the Standards in Public Office Commission with wide investigative powers, and the Members are aware of the facts there. The Act imposes on politicians an obligation to have one's tax affairs in order and to swear a statutory declaration that this is so. Members of the Dáil or Seanad are required to furnish annual statements of registerable interests. The Commission can also have regard to a person's compliance with the Local Government Code of Conduct in carrying out its functions.

The Electoral (Amendment) Acts 1998 and 2001, together with the Local Elections (Expenditure and Donations) Act 1999, strengthened substantially the controls that apply to political donations and election spending. The new controls included a requirement to open special accounts for political donations.

This corpus of legislation reflects the intent of the Government that our planning and local government systems, as well as the wider public service, are seen to operate to the highest standards of probity in the common interest. Therefore, I reject emphatically any suggestion that we are less than wholehearted in our pursuit of this objective.

I consider that the body of law I outlined provides a robust framework within which legitimate political donations can continue to be received across the political spectrum. I do not accept the proposal that all such donations from any particular group must be deemed undesirable per se. That is a nonsense. That discredits politics. I have outlined what the Government has done and emphasise, because Deputy O’Dowd is looking across at me, that this was built on a good foundation that was put in as we were coming into office. Those are the facts. There is a substantial body of legislation. It is new and it is working.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies will have their opportunity to contribute to the debate if they want to but should not spoil somebody else's contribution.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

The Minister has the cheek to——

Mr. Roche

Deputy Ryan has a habit of coming in here, roaring and shouting like a bull, and making as much sense as a bull.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

The Kenny report made sense in the 1970s.

Mr. Roche

Deputy Ryan will have his opportunity and I will listen to him with more courtesy than he is showing me. If he stops behaving like a little jackbooted bully we may get somewhere in this House. Each occasion I come in here to make a speech he comes up, red-faced with indignation, roaring and shouting and making little sense. I suggest he take a tranquilliser, calm down and listen to a little common sense.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

I never realised I had that effect on the Minister.

Mr. Roche

With regard to the scale and nature of the physical development which has taken place over past decades, there is common cause in this House that it is not good enough that, as has happened in the past, we built without putting the infrastructure in place. Certainly, nobody can suggest that I have any less interest in this than anybody on the benches opposite because I have a record on the matter over the years.

Building sustainable communities means delivering quality dwellings in quality developments with a proper transport infrastructure, social services, schools etc. Expanding communities need education and health facilities, child care services and so on. Departments and regional and local authorities have been working, and will continue to work, together to ensure the unprecedented rate of population growth and housing development being experienced in Ireland is planned for in a manner that will support more balanced regional development and the creation of sustainable communities.

In planning for housing provision, we need to ensure high standards are applied and this will be done through quality development plans and local area plans. The Green Party has members on local authorities which make those plans, and the party can make an input there.

Reference was made to the issue of urban sprawl. I am not familiar with a case in which the Green Party has favoured higher density developments.

Deputies

Wrong.

Mr. Cuffe

The Minister has his fingers in his ears. He should get out more.

Mr. Roche

If I am wrong, I accept that. I have never witnessed Green Party support.

Mr. Cuffe

The Minister's party colleague declared his opposition to apartments at a public meeting in Stillorgan. We supported higher densities in our submission.

Mr. Roche

From a national perspective, the eastern half of the State has witnessed the most rapid development over the past decade. It has been a challenge to respond to this phenomenon in infrastructural investment in areas such as transportation and housing, two issues referred to in the motion.

Housing development rapidly accelerated over the past decade throughout the so-called outer Leinster counties. Housing output in the Dublin city and county area was more static. However, this has put more distance between where people live and work. However, in recent years a good deal of progress has been made in countering these trends. In a far-reaching measure, the Government has for the first time put in place, and is committed to implementing, a national spatial strategy. The strategic planning guidelines of 1999 and their successors, the regional planning guidelines for the greater Dublin area, GDA, have set a policy framework aimed at accommodating significant population and housing growth in the GDA.

Major development areas such as the Adamstown strategic development zone, Pelletstown and the north fringe of Dublin city have been facilitated by significant and continuing investment in critical and enabling infrastructure such as new water services schemes and enhancement of the capacity of rail and bus services. The concentration of development in these areas represents best practice in the effective integration of physical planning and provision of transport and essential services.

Mr. Cuffe

Twenty new buses.

Mr. Roche

Transport 21 is proceeding to roll out further major investment in fixed line public transport networks.

Mr. Boyle

When will this happen? When will the money be spent?

Mr. Gormley

When was the last time the Minister was on a train?

Mr. Roche

About a week ago. Transport 21 will support the spatial development framework for the GDA from a transportation perspective. In Adamstown, for example, this will result in the four tracking of the Kildare-Heuston suburban rail service, providing a rapid and frequent link between west Dublin and the city centre and other transport networks such as Luas. People and communities will also benefit from the extended Luas, the new metro and the quality bus corridors systems which the Transport 21 plan will deliver. I hope that when these projects come up for critical planning, they will have the support of the Green Party.

Mr. Cuffe

Overriding democracy.

Mr. Roche

Taking all of the foregoing together, we are turning around recent development trends. We accept we face a challenge and we are more realistic than the Green Party in that regard.

Mr. Sargent

The Minister has made a big mess.

Mr. Roche

My Department and I will continue to work closely with other Departments, regional and local authorities to ensure an integrated approach.

An element of the Green Party motion and the Sinn Féin rhetoric suggests that the Government has favoured private housing development to the detriment of our social and affordable housing provision, which is patently untrue.

Deputies

It has.

Mr. Roche

We have witnessed unprecedented demand for housing over the past decade, reflecting significant economic success and rapidly changing demographics.

Mr. Cuffe

And a trebling of housing waiting lists.

Mr. Roche

The Deputy could do his bit in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, which has the worst social housing record in the State. I will not be lectured by him. He should examine the record of the council in an area where he has influence.

Mr. Cuffe

Thanks to the Minister.

Mr. Gormley

And the Deputy behind him.

Mr. Roche

The Green Party controls the majority on that council, not Deputy Andrews.

Mr. Sargent

He has the Minister's imprimatur.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

Fine Gael and Labour control that council.

Mr. Roche

We have focused on increasing overall supply to meet increasing demand and improve affordability. We have delivered that supply and we will continue to do so. We are building at a much higher rate than our EU colleagues — almost four times the western European average. More than one third of the country's homes have been built since 1996.

Mr. Boyle

To what standard?

Mr. Cuffe

They have been built using substandard housing regulations.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

And on the basis of profiteering.

Mr. Roche

In 1994, fewer than 27,000 homes were being built in Ireland but by 1997 this had increased to almost 39,000, an extraordinary rate of increase, and there has been unprecedented growth since. Last year was the 11th year of record house completions, with output of more than 80,000 units. Crucially, we are delivering where demand is most acute and have increased supply to 18,000 units in Dublin and 28,000 in the GDA. This is almost double the level of a decade ago. In overall terms, the quality of Ireland's housing stock is very high.

Mr. Cuffe

It is not.

Mr. Sargent

What is the Minister's standard?

Mr. Roche

The majority — 92% — of households surveyed during the last national survey of housing quality expressed satisfaction with the general condition of their accommodation, their area and their neighbourhood.

Mr. Boyle

Is the Minister paying their heating bills?

Mr. Roche

All available indicators suggest high levels of housing output will continue to be required annually in the period to 2020. This will be a major challenge but one where this Government's track record justifies confidence. With the support of the other major political parties at local government level, we can achieve the housing output required. While we will continue to facilitate the strong housing market necessary to meet the needs of our increasing population, the market on its own cannot address the housing problems.

Mr. Cuffe

Is that the Minister's Galway races script?

Mr. Roche

Accordingly, the provision of strong support for social and affordable housing remains a key objective of this Government. Record funding is being provided for social and affordable housing programmes this year. With the additional funding secured in the budget, the provision for 2006 will be in excess of €2 billion, more than double such expenditure in 2000.

Mr. Sargent

The Minister should bring back Part V.

Mr. Roche

The Deputy should at least have the honesty to acknowledge that fact.

We are using these resources to good effect. In the past three years, local authorities have started on average 5,100 units, 40% higher than the average number of units commenced between 1994 and 1997. During that period, the voluntary and co-operative sector supplied approximately 900 units per annum but this has increased by two thirds to average 1,500 units in more recent years. A total of 23,000 new units of social housing will commence between 2006 and 2008. Rather than crow from the benches, Opposition Members could join me in encouraging local authorities to meet or surpass their targets.

Further households will be assisted through the new rental accommodation scheme. The output of affordable housing in 2005 was double that between 1994 and 1997. A total of 15,000 units of affordable housing will be delivered between 2006 and 2008. Almost 100,000 households have benefited from various social and affordable housing measures over the past eight years. We are greatly expanding this provision and we expect 50,000 households to benefit from various social and affordable housing measures over the coming three years. Part V will make an increasing contribution to meeting these targets.

Mr. Cuffe

It could hardly make less.

Mr. Roche

It will make much more sense than anything the Deputy has said.

The delivery of housing under Part V of the 2000 Act is beginning to increase significantly. At the end of 2005, almost 1,400 units had been delivered during the year, 2,500 were under construction and a further 3,500 were proposed under agreements with developers.

Mr. Sargent

That is 1%.

Mr. Roche

I expect 6,000 social and affordable units will be delivered under Part V between 2005 and 2007.

Recognising the affordability issues in the Dublin area, the Government last year established a new agency, the Affordable Homes Partnership, to co-ordinate and add impetus to the delivery of affordable housing in and around the capital. The partnership is well established and is making good progress on the implementation of its work programme, including the advancement of affordable housing projects on State lands and co-ordination of the provision of housing related infrastructure.

The new housing policy statement, Building Sustainable Communities, provides the framework for a wide-ranging review of housing policy. To support the introduction of these policy initiatives, my Department has commissioned a research study into apartment size and space standards that will feed into new planning guidelines due later this year. I share the concerns about the quality of some apartments. Additional guidance on best practice mechanisms in the effective linkage of the development of new residential areas with the provision of wider social infrastructure such as schools and amenities is also envisaged.

The Green Party motion proposes the recovery of betterment due to land rezoning, through the introduction of a complex mechanism first proposed in 1973, the designated area scheme, whereby local authorities would be required to designate and acquire all development land in the State at its existing value, plus 25%.

Before addressing this proposal, it is worth pointing out that there are already a number of existing mechanisms that in effect recover increases in value arising from planning decisions to improve public infrastructure. The longest standing is capital gains tax.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister should conclude.

Mr. Roche

I will conclude in a moment. I was harangued and harassed during my contribution. A more recently introduced measure was the supplementary development scheme.

Mr. Roche

With regard to the designated areas scheme, I question whether the Green Party has ever read the 1973 Kenny report.

Mr. Eamon Ryan

Not only did we read it, we endorsed it.

Mr. Roche

If it had, it would see that Judge Kenny rejected the Green Party's stated objective of recovering most of the increased value of land attributable to rezoning.

Mr. O’Dowd

The Minister has used two of our minutes.

Mr. Roche

I will finish in a moment. The Kenny report stated explicitly that legislation which provided that a local authority could acquire lands at existing value plus some percentage of it——

Mr. Gormley

The Minister should get on with it and read it properly.

Mr. Roche

I will read it properly because it is worth reading out. The Kenny report states explicitly that legislation which provided that a local authority could acquire lands at existing use value plus some percentage of it when its price had been increased not by local authority works, but by planning decisions only, would be unjust and probably repugnant to the Constitution.

Mr. McCormack

On a point of order, will our time be reduced by the amount of time the Minister has used of our time?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have called on the Minister to conclude.

Mr. O’Dowd

He has taken two minutes of our time.

Mr. Roche

I thought Deputy O'Dowd was offering me two minutes. I beg his pardon. I see no merit in the Green Party motion, just a great deal of hypocrisy.

Mr. O’Dowd

I wish to share time with Deputies McCormack and Ring.

I will address the key issues in this important debate. Fine Gael proposes an amendment which reads:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"—condemns the corruption in planning matters exposed by the reports of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain Planning Matters and Payments;

—condemns the actions of those public representatives, officials, developers and landowners who engaged in the corrupt activity outlined by the tribunal; and

—notes the deterioration in public standing of all politicians as a result of this corruption;

calls:

—for the immediate passing of whistleblower legislation to protect those working in local authorities who reveal corruption; and

—on all parties to fully comply with the provisions of the Electoral Acts in relation to financial donations."

Our amendment deals specifically with one issue which we think will bring about an immediate change in how people address corruption and planning in local government generally. It calls for the immediate passing of whistleblower legislation to protect those working in and elected members of local authorities who reveal corrupt practices.

The corruption that was so prevalent in local authorities in Dublin in the 1980s and 1990s must be unequivocally condemned and I welcome this opportunity to condemn it. It seems that at that time, the era of Mr. Charles Haughey and Mr. Ray Burke, the system of planning in this city was hijacked by a few greedy people intent on making a quick buck, regardless of the consequences on our system of planning, on local government and on the communities of Dublin. Corrupt politicians, landowners, developers and their intermediaries must share the blame for the disgraceful series of events that occurred. This must never be allowed to happen again.

Central to the change required is a proposal that comes from the Standards in Public Office Commission. In its 2004 report it recommended a whistleblowers' charter whereby council employees and councillors who reported illegal, improper, unprofessional or unethical activities would be protected. However, successive Fianna Fáil Ministers have ignored this recommendation.

The Minister is ignoring the issue also. Where Fianna Fáil dithers, Fine Gael, in government, would act. The Fine Gael amendment calls for one of the most vital anti-corruption tools in the history of the State to be put in place, whistleblowers' legislation. Faith in government is at the heart of democracy and we will not take a back seat on issues of transparency and faith in local government but will enact the necessary legislation.

I wish to address some of the issues with practical suggestions for what we ought to introduce. I made these suggestions previously, but will make them again. Notwithstanding all the Minister said, he is missing an important opportunity to change our local government system. We want him to introduce a code of ethics or code of planning practice to which councillors and officials throughout the country would sign up. This system would be open and transparent and if any members of the public felt it was not being followed they could make a complaint through the relevant office dealing with the code or standards. This system could be set up immediately. Despite all the pious talk on the issue, we will have nothing if we do not act now. Land rezonings around the country create millions in profit for some people and the matter must be addressed. I accept that the tribunals have a significant part to play in how we deal with this issue, but this does not mean we should stand idly by as the Government has done by refusing to face this reality head on.

British county councils have adopted a code of practice that we could follow. When councillors are making decisions they are under a lot of pressure from the community. We need to ensure that when a decision is made, the common good of the community is the sole consideration at the time of the decision. To ensure this, we should protect our councillors and provide them with the same guidelines as provided for British councillors. They should not make statements in advance of a meeting on how they will vote on a controversial planning matter, they should not take up a campaigning role for or against an application, they should not act as an advocate for groups opposed to or supporting the application and they should not take part in prior consideration of the application through membership of organisations such as residents' groups, lobby groups or civic societies which are consulted on the application.

This does not mean that councillors should remain silent about an application or should not listen to or meet developers or other groups. Councillors are entitled to express a legitimate concern about an application when approached by constituents. Care must be taken and councillors should not approach a decision with a closed mind. A key point is that councillors must act in a quasi-judicial fashion. They must act independently and as if they are judging all the evidence in each case. At the heart of the corruption in Irish life is the absence of such a code of ethics or guidelines which would reinforce and ensure councillors would always act with due process and without prior commitments.

A further section of the British code of conduct is important. It suggests that in personal dealings with applicants councillors should be mindful of the need to avoid giving a firm commitment to support or oppose the application. They should bear in mind that their overriding duty is to the whole community and not just to the people in their ward, that planning decisions need to be taken on planning grounds and that they should avoid the appearance of improperly favouring any person, company, group or locality. They should not accept gifts, hospitality, bribes etc. These are simple fundamental rules that we could introduce and I urge the Minister to introduce them because this would protect the body politic and the public and would have due process in the planning area.

A key point of the British code deals with an issue at the heart of the planning problem. It recommends that all elected members should pay particular attention to the professional advice and recommendations of officers. Councillors should not be bound to follow officers' advice or recommendations, but they should only depart from the advice or recommendations when they have good reason to do so, based on clear and legitimate planning grounds.

The current situation here does not insist on these protocols. We should introduce this code. I do not see why the Minister cannot do so after consultation with all the parties in the House. One of the proposals made by the Labour Party was that we should get together on this. Let us put forward the proposal and see how we can bring about change. A core Fine Gael belief is that we must ensure the public has total confidence in the planning process. I know the Minister believes the same so let us do it.

I welcome the condemnation of corruption from all sides of the House but I am sick to the teeth of Sinn Féin lecturing me on corruption when they, or their associates, are the very people who have robbed banks left, right and centre throughout this country, most recently the Northern Bank. I accept and acknowledge——

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Deputy O'Dowd's party has been robbing the people for years.

Mr. O’Dowd

——that they have changed but I will not be lectured by them.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Deputy does not have to be. He just has to listen.

Mr. O’Dowd

They can call me whatever names they like. Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me. They should not put themselves on the high horse of honesty and integrity——

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

That applies to the Deputy himself.

Mr. O’Dowd

They have been involved in crime for too many years.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Deputy should look at his own party. It came from a fascist organisation.

Mr. McCormack

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate——

Mr. O’Dowd

My party never killed anybody——

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It never killed anybody?

Mr. Ferris

What about Countess Bridge where you strapped men to mines and blew them to bits?

Mr. O’Dowd

——or buried people in unmarked graves, like they did in my constituency.

Mr. McCormack

I am sorry the Minister was tempted to depart from his script at the beginning of this debate because we would have had a more constructive and productive discussion if we did not have such crossfire happening. However, that is done now.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion, which is principally about the function of elected members with regard to planning. Elected members have two rights or responsibilities in this regard. They have the duty to adopt, every five years, a county or city development plan. They also have the right, written into legislation, to implement what are known as section fours and, sometimes, material contraventions, of the plan. This is very dicey ground. Section fours or material contraventions of the plan should only be entered into in extreme circumstances. That said, there are cases where a section four is necessary because sometimes planners do not get it right.

I was a member of two local authorities, a county council and a city council, for many years. I was involved in the adoption of at least four county development plans and three city development plans and I am aware of the pressure exerted on councillors when a development plan is being adopted. Working as a councillor was relatively easy when I started in 1974. It was left to the councillors and officials to adopt the plan. However, as time went by, and especially in recent times, lobbying became much more severe and demanding. No matter who came to me with recommendations for a county or city development plan, I listened but kept an open mind until the draft plan was published. Once the draft was published, people were entitled to make their submissions but I still kept an open mind until I had read the manager's report. Only then did the council collectively make a decision on adopting the draft plan or supporting submissions referring to that plan.

One could get very strong representations from those on both sides of the argument. For example, a draft development plan is produced. A man has 20 acres on the outskirts of a town or village which it is proposed will be zoned residential. There are meetings with community councils, residents' associations, the public and lobby groups to which all elected representatives are invited and which, particularly during an election year, all attend. Councillors will be lobbied. Submissions will be presented to have the land zoned as an open space, for example. Councillors then have a decision to make. If the land is zoned residential, it would probably be worth, in terms of land in Galway, approximately €16 million to the land owner. If the land is zoned for open space, it would be worth about €3 million or €4 million. The difference could be as much as €14 million and that is an enormous responsibility for elected members to bear. Perhaps there is a better way to adopt development plans than the method used heretofore.

I understand from councillors on the city and county councils now that the lobbying has become even stronger than before. Councillors are under severe pressure. They are also lobbied by those who wish to have their land zoned as residential land in the draft development plan. When the matter of open spaces is being decided, planners use maps and outline where they should be located. They should consider, where several landowners have adjoining lands on the outskirts of towns or cities, the option of zoning part of each landowner's land as open space rather than designating all of one parcel of land as residential and the other as open space. That might solve many of the problems that arise and would make it easier for councillors to make a decision on the matter.

The Planning and Development Act 2000 contained a provision requiring developers to devote 20% of their developments to social and affordable housing. In 2002, that Act was amended to allow developers to give land, money, some houses or some of each instead. They were not even required to give land in the area being developed but could give land from any part of the local authority area. For example, around Galway city in the areas of Castlegar, Oranmore and Moycullen, land is very valuable so the developers offered the local authorities land in Glenamaddy, Tuam and other places, where land is not as valuable. They have succeeded in doing that because of the Government amendment to the 2000 Act. The Government simply caved in to the demands of the developers, some of whom they meet annually in Galway at a famous sporting event.

I call on the Minister, Deputy Roche, who I think was the Minister in 2002——

Mr. Cuffe

It was Deputy Cullen who did that.

Mr. McCormack

Fair enough, it was Deputy Cullen, but the current Minister has done nothing to correct it and I appeal to him to revert to the situation pertaining before 2002.

Mr. Ring

I am glad to contribute to this debate. Shame on those who have let down the name of public representatives in this country. They have done a serious injustice to all the political parties. When I see the small amounts of money being described on the television and in the newspapers, to see such fine people being destroyed by small donations is a disgrace and is not good for politics or politicians.

Mr. Gormley

It was real money back then.

Mr. Ring

It might have been real money but one's name and family are worth more than that, as is politics. People have let down the political system, the people who elected them and the community. My name is worth more to me than £1,000, £1,500 or whatever the case may be.

I come from a constituency where that problem did not exist until this year. In fact, at times we were looking for developers to build houses, but that is no longer the case. Will the Minister, as a former councillor, review the drafting of development plans? The officials have all the resources of the State at their disposal. They have consultants, engineers and others advising them on what is right. When a development plan is being adopted, councillors should be able to employ an independent consultant who will advise them separately from the officials. The officials have their own people and resources but the councillors should at least be advised by a professional person.

Deputy McCormack is correct about lobbying, which has never stopped. In fact I had first-hand experience recently, even though I am not a member of the council, of lobbying in my area in Westport. A parcel of land was zoned as agricultural and a certain sporting organisation wanted that zoning to be maintained. It wanted to buy the land and develop it into a sports ground. It was zoned as commercial and was sold for €3.5 million last week. That is what rezoning means. A bit of land that was worth possibly €100,000 as agricultural land was sold for €3.5 million as commercial land.

Local authority officials should not have all of the power in the planning process. There should be a committee comprising elected representatives and planners from the council with an independent planning officer who will adjudicate on a decision on which he or she believes there will be no agreement. As a former member of a local authority, I feel we have given away all its powers.

Mr. S. Power

There is one power we have not given away yet.

Mr. Ring

Many powers have been given away. The one power that must be reconsidered is zoning. Some other process must be put in place where local authority officials and elected council representatives are both involved. I never believed I would say that in the House. The time has come for another process for re-zoning land. The current system allows for too much temptation with big money and with the builders having an input into political parties. Councillors do their best and make the best decisions they believe are correct.

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 21 Mar 2006

Political Donations and Planning: Motion.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 21 Mar 2006