Enda Kenny
Question:1 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the arrangements in place in his Department for providing assistance to certain Independent Members of Dáil Éireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9145/06]
Ceisteanna — Questions.
Agreements with Members.
Trevor Sargent
Question:2 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the arrangements which are in place for his Department to provide assistance to certain Independent Deputies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10190/06]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:3 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the arrangements that are in place to provide assistance for certain Independent Members of Dáil Éireann; if he will list those who are entitled to avail of this service; the estimated annual cost of providing the service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10199/06]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:4 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the arrangements in place in his Department for providing assistance to certain Independent Members of Dáil Éireann; the assistance offered to them above and beyond that available to all Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas; if officials in his Department are responsible for this assistance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10569/06]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.
A number of Independent Deputies offered invaluable support to the previous Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government. While in regard to this Administration their support is not as critical to the Government's majority, given the support they provided in the past, I have tried, and will continue to try, to be as helpful as possible to these Deputies. A staff member in my office assists the Government Chief Whip's office in its work in liasing with these Deputies. The official meets with the Deputies on a regular basis and arranges to keep them briefed on issues as they arise.
I confirm there is no additional cost to the taxpayer in dealing with these Deputies. One assistant principal officer deals with the Deputies and assists the Chief Whip in this matter. In seeking to be as helpful as possible regarding the priorities and issues of concern for the Deputies, this is managed within the expenditure on programmes within the programme for Government and the national development plan and will be within the parameters of planned expenditure within departmental Estimates.
Is it reasonable to give some Independent Deputies a helping hand over and above everybody else? They are elected by the same electorate as other Members. They have rights and responsibilities and the use of the facilities of the House. Is this a type of each way bet for the Taoiseach? Given that his partners in Government are prepared to state they can do business with other parties in the House, the Taoiseach is expending taxpayers' money to ensure the other half of the bet is kept sweet in case anything goes wrong. Does the Taoiseach have a view on that?
That is not the strategic objective. The Deputies concerned have been supportive of the Government and it would be wrong, just because we have a majority in the House, not to give them some assistance. The Deputies concerned do not seek preferential treatment. In fact, other Members, including other Independent Members, ask for support from time to time. We try to deal with them even-handedly. Obviously, however, these Independent Members were crucial to the Government in the last Dáil and it would be wrong of me to abandon them because of the voting position. They do not incur an increase in expenditure or get preferential treatment that would create any difficulty.
Will the Taoiseach give their names? Deputy Healy-Rae was crucial for the Government in the last Dáil. Are they an extension of the reserve force Deputy McDowell talks about, in case the Taoiseach's erstwhile friends decide to walk away for some reason? One week they are leaving and the next week they are not. Who are the Independent Deputies who receive slightly more favourable assistance from the Government?
Three of the four Independent Deputies who supported the Government in the last Dáil still keep in touch with the Government. They are Deputies Healy-Rae, Blaney and Fox.
The Taoiseach has a majority with the Progressive Democrats so it would be interesting to find out why this arrangement with certain Independent Deputies is continuing. Is Deputy Cooper-Flynn considered part of the arrangement? Is the Taoiseach conveying the message that former Fianna Fáil Deputies who were difficult are to be rewarded for creating difficulties? What message does that give to Fianna Fáil backbenchers? The Taoiseach mentioned briefings. Is a particular representation facility offered? Does it go to each Department or does it go through the Government Chief Whip? Has it been streamlined in that fashion? Are civil servants availed of to provide this service? Is it the case that this politicises the Civil Service and are certain people picked out for preferential treatment? Should the same service not be provided to all Deputies so the Government cannot be accused of politicising the Civil Service?
Both my office and that of the Whip assist all Deputies on a daily or weekly basis. Deputy Sargent will appreciate that if I found someone helpful and constructive over five years, I would not just turn over the book and say the numbers are different and we are not interested any more. That is not the way I act because it is disrespectful. It is no more than that. The Deputies do not seek any great help or assistance. They might at times look for a meeting or deputation with Ministers, but others also do that every day in the House. I confirm that Deputy Cooper-Flynn is not one of the Deputies concerned. Any assistance does not bring an additional cost but comes within the ordinary work of the staff in the office.
In the last Dáil, on a daily basis one was asking Deputies to vote with the Government and to support legislation. Therefore, it was necessary for the working of Government in those arrangements to have quite close contact and briefing on the issues. We cannot expect people to vote without such briefings. They do not have the benefit of parliamentary parties like the rest of us to get these detailed briefings. The briefings were provided and it was right to provide them.
I call Deputy Rabbitte.
I cannot think of anything to ask.
There is no argument with such an arrangement in principle, but it should be up-front and people should know about it. In that context, the Taoiseach has indicated the Deputies who are permanently involved. However, in reply to Deputy Kenny earlier, the Taoiseach stated, "and including other Deputies from time to time". Who are the Lanigan's ball Deputies who step in and out again? Will the Taoiseach tell us who they are? He has told us those who are in his permanent coterie, but who are those who are occasionally in the Government's favour in terms of fast-tracking of information and responses etc.? What are the criteria for establishing if Deputies are with or against the Government?
If the Deputy checks back he will find a few of them who helped me to get this job on the first day by voting for me. Being the fair-minded person I am, if a Deputy voted to get me into the job and then asks me something, I take notice of it. I never hold that against——
I had better start asking.
I appreciate it.
Is Deputy McHugh one of the Lanigan's ball Deputies?
No, I am not.
I never hold that against Deputy Ó Caoláin's party. I meet his party more than I meet anybody and am always favourable towards it, both North and South.
I suppose the Taoiseach is hoping that will pay, but he will wait.
Was the Taoiseach in a position to offer Deputy Healy-Rae a search party to locate his missing pony recently or did he make any request in that regard?
I may have asked the Independent Deputies to help him over Easter.
Standards in Public Office.
Enda Kenny
Question:5 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach his plans to amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9146/06]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:6 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his plans to amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10198/06]
Joe Higgins
Question:7 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he intends to amend the code of conduct for office holders. [10201/06]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:8 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if procedures are in place for a review of the operation of the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10570/06]
Trevor Sargent
Question:9 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if there will be a review of the code of conduct for office holders. [13068/06]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 9, inclusive, together.
The code of conduct for office holders was drawn up by the Government following consultation with the Standards in Public Office Commission and has applied since 3 July 2003. I have exchanged recent correspondence with the commission with regard to the provisions of section 2.2.3 of the code with a view to providing office holders with clear guidelines as to the usage of public resources in the context of public events or advertising.
This is the only issue that has arisen since the code came into operation and I firmly believe we would be ill advised to begin considering amending or replacing it until we have allowed sufficient time to review its operation particularly in the context of a general election period.
Prior to the local elections the then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, sent out material from his Department to draw up election information for Fianna Fáil. Subsequently, he repaid €2,500 in respect of that material. Around the same time the former Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, was in difficulty about the use of Government headed paper.
In June 2004, the Standards in Public Office Commission found that both Ministers had not appropriately observed the code of conduct for office holders, in particular sections 1.5 and 2.2.3. Last year it emerged that a civil servant who worked in the Department of the then Minister of State, Deputy Callely, resigned because the Minister required her to attend a political function which was outside the terms of the remit of a civil servant. I understand the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, asked a civil servant to attend a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting to give a briefing on a particular matter. Does the Taoiseach agree that is a breach of the code of conduct? Under no circumstances should public servants be asked by Ministers in any Government to attend at exclusively party-political meetings where the interests of the party could override the issue at hand and be seen to politicise the public service. Will the Taoiseach comment on that? Does he agree this kind of activity leads to a situation where a Minister is open to a charge of allowing the interests of party politics to take precedence over the public good and public office requirements?
There have been very few breaches of the code. Ministers have sometimes not been careful enough or have inadvertently allowed literature go out and three or four of them have had to pay back in that regard. With regard to the advertising which involved Deputy Callely, the Standards in Public Office Commission gave a view which I brought to the attention of all. It is a difficult area where Ministers have to promote something but cannot be seen to promote themselves. The code gives the guideline people should follow.
On the issue of officials, it would be wrong for civil servants to be asked to go to a parliamentary party meeting in terms of our general parliamentary meetings. However, it has always been the practice, and I have seen this in Opposition as well as in Government, that if a Bill, proposal or certain data is on the agenda, a civil servant may come along to explain the issue. The civil servant in question just gives the departmental position and I do not see anything wrong in that. It could, in fact, be good from the point of view of providing information. This practice has been around a long time and is good, but it would not be good for a civil servant to be in on a parliamentary meeting where all of the party business is on the agenda. I do not see anything wrong with the civil servant being invited to brief party committees that are working on a particular proposal. That is good and all parties do it from time to time. The civil servants should not, of course, be asked to do anything other than explain or answer questions on what is being done. They should not engage in party political discussion.
The Taoiseach has touched on a relevant point. Public perception of these issues is important. If a senior civil servant is asked to go to a political party meeting to give a briefing, the public reaction is that the public servant is in with the party to whom he or she is giving the briefing. Perhaps it might be more appropriate if the public service were to announce a briefing on a Bill or section in the briefing room in Leinster House 2000 for Members of the Oireachtas during a set period. Then members of the Taoiseach's or my political party could go to such a briefing, which is very different from members of one political party being addressed by a public servant. In terms of providing good information and a proper briefing, it might be helpful but there is a distinction drawn in the public mind between the Minister asking a public servant to go to a party political meeting as opposed to giving a briefing to Members of the Oireachtas, of all parties and none.
I do not want to be too fussy about this. Years ago, when I was in Opposition and doing some research on manpower policies, I was able to get access to civil servants to brief me on particular issues. When I researched the Trade Union Act and the changes to the Trade Disputes Act 1906, I was also able to get civil servants to give me a briefing on process. I do not see any difficulty with that. Obviously, if civil servants are put in a position of a party political nature, that is wrong, but briefings are useful. As good as a Minister or an Opposition spokesperson may be, he or she will not have the same grasp or detailed knowledge as an official who has been working on legislation or a proposal.
Politicians should not be restricted. It is difficult enough in Opposition for people to organise things but if people are prepared to give briefings, they should be allowed to do so. It may not always be possible to have an open briefing, but it should be. We should not let ourselves get too politically correct to the extent that we cut ourselves off from access to information. It often seems more relevant when people have to come here to brief us.
Will the Taoiseach elaborate on the changes — I think I heard him say changes — to the provisions for public advertising? I know what he is saying when he argues that sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between what is being promoted and who is doing the promoting. However, I would not want the Taoiseach to get away with too much innocence here. I know his innocent persona has served him well and it probably is because he is as innocent as the new-born babe but he will remember that, coming up to the previous general election, a dozen or more of his Ministers contrived to find public information announcements that they had to communicate to the people, by radio advertisements, in newspapers and so forth. We all know, whatever about the innocence affected in this House, that the purpose was to promote the Ministers and the Government, not to disseminate public information. What changes will the Taoiseach be making in this area, will they be laid before the House and when will we be able to examine them?
When that issue came up, a fair point was made about it and I acknowledged that at the time. It was the subject of a complaint to the commission which examined the complaint but did not consider there was any basis on which to pursue the matter. However, arising from consideration of the matter and following communication with the commission, I issued guidelines to Ministers on the issue. I do not know if those guidelines are in the public domain but I have no problem putting them there.
The point was that one can give information but should not build it into an advertising campaign on oneself. It should be about the issue. The commission had no difficulty with a Minister issuing the information but said it should not involve photographs or a public relations campaign around that Minister. It should be information that is issued. That was the commission's suggestion and I instructed all Ministers and Ministers of State to follow those guidelines in future.
Have any breaches of the legislation been reported since July 2003? Does the Government have any plans to review the disclosure levels and the spending limits as they now apply? Is the Taoiseach concerned about the most recently published information showing that a then serving Minister of State managed to be the recipient of donations equivalent to half of those received by the rest of the Members of the House? Is that good practice or does it need to be examined?
The Deputy is moving away from the questions before us which deal exclusively with the code of conduct. We have moved well outside that.
If the Ceann Comhairle says so.
No changes are envisaged to the limits or levels. I do not think there were any breaches of the code. There were a few issues concerning Ministers of State who used departmental letterheads wrongly. One Minister of State sent out 15 letters concerning an event and he had to pay back the money. I do not think there were any breaches of the terms of the code and no changes are envisaged.
The commission notified us that the next time we review the legislation, it would seek the inclusion of some amendments to make some sections of the Act clearer. That was with regard to advertising, if I recall correctly. Other than those mentioned by Deputy Kenny, there have been a number of issues to do with literature and people sending out letters on departmental stationery.
Does the Taoiseach recall that in July of last year, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, appeared in an advertisement for calf nuts in the Farming Independent? I am not suggesting for one moment that the Minister of State was paid for his participation in the advertisement but he indicated that he was involved to the benefit of a person whom he described as a good friend. With all due respect to the Minister of State, I am sure the Taoiseach would agree that it is questionable as to whether his photograph in the advertisement would have benefitted the sale of calf nuts in any event. Nonetheless, does the Taoiseach believe it is ethical for a Minister of State to participate in commercial advertising in this way? Has the code of conduct been re-examined as a result of this Minister of State’s calf nuts exposure?
That issue was raised at the time and the code points out that Ministers should be careful how they promote any particular product, although it is very difficult to do that. If a politician goes to the launch of something and holds it in his or her hand, then——
That is all right as long as one does not eat the nuts.
That would definitely be bad for one's health. People must be careful but I am not too sure how, in political life, one can have a clear line on that issue. It is quite difficult.
I note from the Taoiseach's reply that he is fixed and quite narrow in regarding the code as having to do with the use of resources. Given the experiences of recent months, is he considering applying it to the behaviour of office holders, when it comes, for example, to the presumption of innocence? The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform provided a classic example when he tried to associate my colleague, Deputy Gormley, with an attack on the offices of the Progressive Democrats. Would that not count as a matter that is unacceptable? Does the Taoiseach regard the code of conduct as having to do with issues other than resources? Is that not an example of where the officeholder should have regard for the basic presumption of innocence?
That is an interesting dimension and a question that should be allowed. I would like to hear the answer to it.
Likewise, there is the case of the journalist whom the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform decided to defame, with no charges still brought to this day.
That does not arise out of this question. These questions deal with the code of conduct.
If this is not to do with conduct, then what is?
Yes.
Deputy——
I am only asking the question, I am not giving the answer.
The Standards in Public Office Commission interprets the code of conduct. It decides——
The question concerns the code of conduct.
The matters that have been raised have already been decided in the House. We could be here all day discussing individual items.
I will be finished in a second.
These questions deal exclusively with whether there are plans to amend the code of conduct.
That is why I am raising these points. The code of conduct makes it clear that no decision regarding a private company is to be countenanced. Whatever the Taoiseach's difficulty with the fine line he describes, is there not a case to define exactly what no decision regarding a private company means? Is the action of the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, acceptable? If it is not, the code should be made more clear for the Minister of State who has an obvious difficulty with the fine line referred to by the Taoiseach.
The commission pointed out that the latter case was not clear from the code, but how does one make it clear?
The code could include advertising.
That is not advisable because of cases where one could be used unintentionally in an advertisement. In the case of someone intentionally placing his or her photograph in an advertisement, the commission said that was something that should not be done.
The code of conduct does not stand in isolation. It is part of the wider framework of the Ethics in Public Office Act 1995 and the Standards in Public Office Act 2001. They must be read together and that is the point made by the commission. The code cannot impose new requirements that are not legislatively based. It can, however, be used by the commission as guidance to whenever a complaint is made under section 4 of the Act, which provides for complaints of a breach of ethics. The Standards in Public Office Commission oversees implementation of the Acts and guidelines and has specific statutory powers to investigate and make findings on failures of compliance with the Acts. The Acts are taken together and the code is admissible in any proceedings before a court, a tribunal or a committee of the House. The code, in its own right, indicates standards of conduct and integrity for officeholders where these are not expressly covered by legislation. It can be used against a Member.
Public Procurement Policy.
Enda Kenny
Question:10 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if there is a corporate procurement plan in place within his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9147/06]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:11 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the procedures in place within his Department with regard to corporate procurement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10200/06]
Trevor Sargent
Question:12 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if his Department has a corporate procurement plan; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13069/06]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 12, inclusive, together.
Existing procurement policies provide for procurement of the goods and services required by the Department in a manner which seeks to optimise the value for money of the purchases concerned. It is in accordance with public procurement guidelines as set out by the Department of Finance.
There is a requirement to produce an annual corporate procurement plan as part of the national public procurement policy framework, issued by the Department of Finance in May 2005. In response to that requirement, my Department has commenced the process of developing a corporate procurement plan which will be completed this year. It is expected that the analysis and evaluation of current processes will provide an opportunity to identify and, subsequently, introduce any improved procurement practices which would assist the Department in maximising value for money in its procurement of goods and services.
Each year the public sector spends approximately €19 billion in buying goods and services. For years, there has been no political drive to have a more focused approach in getting the best possible deal for the taxpayers' money. In October 2004, Northern Ireland identified a three-year public sector savings target of €375 million, which was based on a new procurement initiative being applied to its level of expenditure of €2.55 billion. When one considers the amount of equipment, goods and services bought across the public sector, there must be some method——
The question refers specifically to the Department of the Taoiseach. The question the Deputy is asking would be a matter for the line Minister.
I know that but the Taoiseach's Department is one of a range of Departments involved. The Taoiseach's Department must purchase goods and products to supply its personnel to fulfil their functions and in that sense, it is part of the overall jigsaw. Is there a concentrated effort to manage procurement? Has a target been set for a listing of what can be bought in a more centralised manner for the public service in five years? This would be in the interests of saving money and getting best value for taxpayers' money.
My Department complies with the guidance on the procurement of supplies and services set out in the public procurement guidelines. The Department of Finance has issued several guidelines in recent years. The last set of guidelines was issued in 2004.
In recent times, the Department of Finance has argued that the purchasing power of all Departments must be accumulated. A Department can do its best on its own but a centralised procurement procedure, acting for the entire public sector, would see larger discounts. It is not an easy exercise but it is an important one.
The Department of the Taoiseach, like other Departments, is required to have a formal procurement planning process which is very different from the old system. The Department of Finance carried out a detailed review of the procurement processes across the Civil Service and public service, as part of the modernisation of procedures.
Computer technology allows Departments to engage more with the requirement. Responsibility for the preparation of the plan has been assigned to my Department. It must analyse its purchases, how that can be done through a centralised system and consider procurement practices and trends. The Department is doing this with the assistance of the Department of Finance which has developed a practical training course for participants.
Getting Departments to procure in a more centralised manner is a new concept. A centralised procurement process will lead to greater discounts — ten Departments procuring together will get larger discounts. While some of this was in the old procurement guidelines and EU directives, the Department of Finance is seeking a more detailed procurement plan. There is no doubt we will get better economy of scale and efficiencies through it. However, it will take some time to get it up and running. They have begun the process, however, in making all Departments engage with it. Every Department must have a plan, although some did this last year. My Department will have it finished and up and running this year. The economies of scale in my Department may not be as big as in others but we must play our part in delivering on that matter. As far as office expenditure, including equipment and information technology sections, is concerned, there must be advantages in doing so.
Do I understand from that that the revision of the procurement guidelines is not restricted to the Department of the Taoiseach but operates across the board? Will the Taoiseach take into account difficulties being encountered by some newly established firms which feel they are effectively excluded by the existing procurement guidelines? For example, it is not unusual to be required by some Departments to submit an auditor's certificate for the last three years' trading. Will the Taoiseach ask that this particular question of recently established firms being given a fair shake be taken into consideration in any revision that is contemplated to facilitate new entrants and optimise value for taxpayers' money?
Over recent years, because of tax certificate issues they have become very strict but it is not fair on new companies trying to enter the market, so I will raise the point further. For the record, it is expected that the result of this exercise will be to identify even better methods of procuring goods and services required — in my case, by my Department. The benefit of performing a high level analysis in the overall departmental perspective will ensure that purchasing trends can be identified which may not be apparent at a micro level. Such an analysis may possibly identify opportunities for cross-departmental procurement options which will yield economies of scale and other efficiencies. It is expected that an examination of the opportunities for streamlining and gaining efficiencies in the procurement process itself will occur, especially through the use of modern financial systems and payment options. If this can be masterminded in the way it is being set out by the Department, obviously the economies of scale should be quite substantial.
Sometimes there is a perception of a golden circle for procurement which new companies find it difficult to break into. The Department of Finance guidelines should apply to all Departments. Has the Department of the Taoiseach taken on board some of them that come to mind? For example, I understand that the Department of Finance has recommended a training programme for executives in charge of specialised IT projects or construction contracts. Has the Department of the Taoiseach taken that on board?
As for the recommendation from the Department of Finance, will the Taoiseach also let the House know whether an individual within a Department will be allocated responsibility for all major IT and capital projects? I understand that a project manager would take the lead in ensuring that projects are developed on time, to specification and within budget. Has such an appointment been made in the Department of the Taoiseach?
I understand that performance tables have also been recommended for each Department. Is the Department of the Taoiseach included? The tables will gauge the extent of project outcomes versus contract budgets. Does the Department of the Taoiseach have people in place in line with those recommendations? While I do not think it is a Government policy, does the Department of the Taoiseach have a policy on ethical procurement given that investment does not have any ethical considerations? Surely it should be easier and more straightforward to put in place an ethical procurement policy concerning, for example, fair trade products.
On a number of the points the Deputy has raised, we have such policies in place. In addition, we must comply with the national public procurement policy framework, which came under the Department of the Taoiseach last summer. As I said at the outset, my Department is developing a corporate procurement plan that will have to cover all points within the policy framework. There will be designated officials but I think my Department's expenditure might not justify bringing in additional people. There are designated people in the IT area, however. We have been fortunate in that much of the work has been done in-house owing to the skills of some staff who happen to have concentrated on this for most of their careers. Therefore, there are such designated people who cover many of those issues.
We must fulfil all the guidelines under the corporate procurement plan, including examining issues such as the difficulties in securing supplies of goods and services in a competitive market, the relative expenditure on goods and services, and the total cost of individual goods and services relative to total purchasing in the organisation. All the criteria that have been set down under the Department of Finance guidelines must now be implemented on a departmental basis. We must comply with that Department's view that this is the only way to deal with such issues. I am not sure about the ethical code but I will raise the matter with my officials.
The Taoiseach should check it.