Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Dec 2006

Vol. 629 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 22a, motion re sittings and Business of the Dáil; No. 23, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Official Languages Act 2003 (Section 9) Regulations 2006 — back from committee; No. 24, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Bovine Diseases (Levies) Regulations 2006 — back from committee; No. 25, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act 1996 order — back from committee; No. 26, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Criminal Justice Act 1984 (Treatment of Persons in Custody in Garda Síochána Stations) (Amendment) Regulations 2006 — back from committee; No. 27, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Fisheries (Miscellaneous Commercial Licences) (Alteration of Duties) Order 2006 — back from committee; No. 28, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Regional Fisheries Boards (Postponement of Elections) Order 2006 — back from committee; No. 29, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of an agreement between Ireland and the World Bank on participation in the Carbon Fund for Europe; No. 30, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of an agreement between Ireland and the World Bank on participation in the BioCarbon Fund; No. 30a, motion re Article 35.4 of the Constitution; No. 7a, Appropriation Bill 2006 — Order for Second Stage, Second and Remaining Stages; No. 2, Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — amendments from the Seanad; No. 30b, Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2006 [Seanad] — modification of Standing Orders in relation to motion to instruct the committee; No. 30c, Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2006 [Seanad] — motion to instruct the committee; No. 34, Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2006 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 35, Citizens Information Bill — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 5b, Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill [Seanad] — Second and Remaining Stages; No. 8, Foyle and Carlingford Fisheries Bill 2006 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 30d, Foyle and Carlingford Fisheries Bill — Financial Resolution; and No. 9, Carbon Fund Bill — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to adjourn at 5.45 p.m. today, and the Order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. and on the conclusion of Question Time today, the Dáil shall adjourn forthwith; that Nos. 22(a), 23 to 30, inclusive, 30(a), 7(a) and 30(b) shall be decided without debate; in the case of 7(a), the Second and Subsequent Stages shall be decided by one question that will be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance and, in the case of No. 22(a), that the motion and any amendments thereto shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair; that the proceedings on No. 2 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12.15 p.m. today and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question to be put by the Chair which shall, in relation to the amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources; that the proceedings on No. 30(c) shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 16 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: The speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokesperson of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party, the Technical Group, who shall be called on in that order and who may share their time, which shall not exceed four minutes in each case; that the Report and Final Stages of No. 34 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.45 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; that the Report and Final Stages of No. 35 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 2.15 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs; that the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 5(b) shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: The proceedings on the Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes, speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called on in that order and who may share their time, which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and the Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which will not exceed five minutes; that the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.30 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism; that the Second Stage of No. 8 shall be taken today and proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. and the speeches of the Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called on in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case and the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which will not exceed five minutes and No. 30(d) shall be taken immediately thereafter and will be decided without debate; that the Second Stage of No. 9 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn at 5.45 p.m. today, the speeches of the Minister or Minister of State and the main spokespersons of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called on in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case and the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which will not exceed five minutes; that Question Time today shall be taken at 5.45 p.m for 75 minutes and in the event of a Private Notice Question being allowed, it shall be taken after 45 minutes and the order shall not resume thereafter; that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 24 January 2007 and, subject to the agreement of No. 22(a), the business to be transacted shall be in accordance with the proposals contained therein.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are 11 proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?

Mr. Bruton

I do not agree to the Order of Business or the Adjournment motion.

An Ceann Comhairle

We have 11 proposals and we will take them seriatim. We are discussing whether the Deputy is in favour of sitting later this evening, nothing else. The Deputy will have an opportunity to discuss the other proposals.

Mr. Bruton

We are entitled to comment on some of the very important issues that have arisen.

An Ceann Comhairle

Not at the moment, although there will be an opportunity to do that.

Mr. Bruton

When will that opportunity arise?

Mr. McCormack

It will take a week to discuss these.

An Ceann Comhairle

Currently we are going through the 11 proposals seriatim. We cannot have a general debate on each of them or we will not do any of the business we are supposed to do today.

Mr. Bruton

I am addressing No. 22(a).

Mr. McCormack

Does the Tánaiste have a script?

An Ceann Comhairle

We are dealing with proposal No. 1, the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. this evening.

Mr. Bruton

I am not satisfied with that proposal or any of the other proposals and I want an opportunity to say why. Can the Ceann Comhairle tell me when I will get the opportunity and I will wait until then?

An Ceann Comhairle

When the proposal comes to be discussed.

Mr. Bruton

This is a proposal.

Mr. McCormack

Does the Minister have a script? Could he circulate it?

Mr. Bruton

There is a proposal here. The first proposal concerns No. 22(a).

An Ceann Comhairle

That requires a proposal for the Dáil to adjourn until Wednesday, 24 January 2007. I will call the Deputy at the appropriate time.

Mr. Bruton

That is No. 2 but I could make my comments as easily on No. 1 if the Ceann Comhairle will allow it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will not permit it because everyone else will want to do the same and we will do no business today. On the proposal for the late sitting, I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Rabbitte

It is amazing that we are sitting as late as is proposed given that the House collapsed on three occasions this term because there was no business. When will the Ceann Comhairle be willing to take the amendment in the name of my colleague, the Labour Party Whip, Deputy Stagg?

An Ceann Comhairle

That comes under proposal No. 11, the last proposal.

Mr. Rabbitte

I will move it at that stage.

An Ceann Comhairle

After the Order of Business.

Mr. Rabbitte

Pardon?

An Ceann Comhairle

After the Order of Business at 22(a).

Mr. Rabbitte

At No. 11?

An Ceann Comhairle

After No. 11, yes.

Mr. Sargent

On the proposal for the late sitting, it took almost ten minutes for the Tánaiste to go through the headings of what we are dealing with today. For the Dáil to sit for a shorter period than yesterday and the day before sounds as if the Government wants to push through legislation as opposed to debating it in the House. The sitting should reflect the amount of business. It is too short a sitting if we are to deal with this business, it should be at least as long as yesterday and the day before.

Dr. Cowley

I have a point of information.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no provision for Deputies from parties of fewer than two members.

Dr. Cowley

I submitted a matter to be raised under Standing Order 31 at 9.25 a.m. It was received at 10.10 a.m. and it was ruled that it was too late. There is no Adjournment debate today and no opportunity to bring up the very important matter of one salmon per angler for the River Moy.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy wants to discuss the matter he can come to my office to discuss it.

Question, "That the proposal that the Dáil sit later than 4.45 p.m. be agreed to", put and declared carried.

Dr. Cowley

No parliamentary questions will be taken for over a month, this is absolutely ridiculous.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Cowley to resume his seat while the Chair is speaking. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 22(a), 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 30(a), 7(a) and 30(b) without debate agreed?

Mr. Bruton

Fine Gael will not accept the proposal to accept these motions without debate. The Ceann Comhairle knows that we have witnessed in recent days an alarming escalation in criminal activity on our streets, with murder, drug offences, firearms offences, assault and false imprisonment exploding on the Government's watch. The Tánaiste and the Government will be judged not by good intentions or activity or by an open chequebook——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a general debate on this.

Mr. Kehoe

We can.

Mr. Bruton

Attempts to curtail business by taking all these items without debate, including a motion related to drug trafficking, are not acceptable to this party. I am perfectly entitled to outline my reasons for not accepting this. When the Government members hear the reasons, perhaps they will change their view and we will have an opportunity for debate.

The Tánaiste

If the Deputy tables a Private Notice Question for this afternoon, I will answer it.

Mr. Kehoe

We have one tabled.

Mr. Bruton

I welcome that. I would like to outline why the Ceann Comhairle ought not only to accept that but also to allow us to reject many of the motions it is proposed to take without debate. The reasons are straightforward. The Tánaiste and his Government promised there would be zero tolerance on crime, yet murders are up 46%; homicide, 115%; assault, 131%; gun crime, 300%——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should make a brief comment.

Mr. Kehoe

Sack Deputy Healy-Rae.

Mr. Bruton

That was a brief comment. The Government must be judged on results, which in the context of crime, is the capacity to detect criminals and bring them to book. Under various crime headings, detection rates have fallen. Murder detection is down 36% and homicide detection is down 18% while the rates for assault, possession of firearms——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot go on like this. He will have an opportunity later.

Mr. Durkan

He can because he is entitled to make his point.

Mr. Bruton

I would probably be finished if I had been given an opportunity. When Donna Cleary, an innocent woman from my constituency, was killed, the Tánaiste said that represented a watershed and there would be huge changes.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Bruton

Since then, three innocent victims have been gunned down in the crossfire of gangland activity. The latest victim was Anthony Campbell, a young plumber.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot have a general debate at this stage.

Mr. Durkan

That is the problem. The entire country is talking about this.

Mr. Ring

The country is in crisis.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will create an opportunity if Deputy Bruton wants it.

Mr. Bruton

The Government is proposing, for example, to reintroduce the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act 1996 without debate and to renew orders without debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point. He can call a division and let the House decide if it wants to have a debate.

Mr. J. Brady

Call a vote.

Mr. Bruton

I have never been in the House when, on the adjournment of the House, the Leader of the Opposition did not have the opportunity, uninterrupted by the Ceann Comhairle or Government members, to outline his or her argument. We are perfectly entitled to say why we want the Government——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Standing Order applies to everybody and it applies today the same as every other day. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Bruton

The House has a right to debate the effectiveness of policing, prisons and the criminal justice system in the wake of what has happened. We should have that opportunity.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Durkan

Let us deal with the issue. There is no need for the Minister for Foreign Affairs to laugh. He should climb another tree.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy is only a bluffer.

Mr. J. Brady

He should get a job in a circus. He is a real clown.

Mr. Connaughton

The Tánaiste is not laughing though.

Mr. Rabbitte

It makes life very difficult, Sir, for the conduct of business in the House when motions and so on are lumped together. My colleague, Deputy O'Shea, has a matter of concern to raise, for example, on No. 23 but it has been lumped together with everything else.

No. 22a provides for arrangements for a phoney sitting week. The Dáil will reconvene on 24 January 2007 and the motion states: “(i) there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26; (ii) there shall be no Leaders’ Questions pursuant to Standing Order 26A; (iii) oral and written questions shall not be taken; (iv) Private Members’ business shall not be taken; (v) matters may not be raised under the provisions of Standing Orders 21(3) or 31; (vi) the taking of any divisions shall be postponed until immediately after the Order of Business on Wednesday, 31st January, 2007”. That is a window dressing week to facilitate the Government.

Meanwhile, we have a crisis on our streets. Even the changed demeanour of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform betrays the gravity of the situation. It is appropriate at this time of year that we pause to reflect on the number of families who will sit down to Christmas dinner without their loved ones and on completely innocent citizens going about their daily work being slain in the circumstances we recently witnessed. It is not appropriate that the House should adjourn and arrange a phoney sitting week such as this without the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform saying clearly when there will be an opportunity to discuss the law and order situation that afflicts the country.

I offer the Minister the support of the Labour Party for any reasonable measures to get a grip on this crime wave. There is no point flailing around blaming others, including the Judiciary for the manner of the implementation of mandatory sentencing and so on. This is driven by the crime racket that has infested communities with drugs in many areas. The large, lucrative profits that can be made from the drugs trade is the direct cause of the murder and mayhem, which threatens the lives of innocent citizens.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should be brief.

Mr. Rabbitte

There seemed to be a certain tolerance while gang lords were knocking off gang lords but we feared that innocent citizens would become victims and that has happened. When does the Tánaiste purport to allow the House to have a full debate on the law and order situation, which is out of hand?

Mr. Sargent

I expected that a Private Notice Question on the record levels of gun crime and murder that are unfolding daily might be accepted today and I submitted one on that basis. Will the Ceann Comhairle confirm this when I have made my contribution?

The Tánaiste read a list that included so many years and numbers I was reminded of a Johnny Cash song. This is a farce because these motions and so on deal with issues as varied as the Official Languages Act, bovine diseases, drug trafficking, fisheries, biocarbons and the carbon fund. Significant funding is being given the nod without the opportunity for debate and without Members being given the courtesy of being able to differentiate one issue from another. When business is lumped together like this, it indicates more is being hidden than debated. We must oppose this proposal because the House will be brought into disrepute if such a practice is permitted to continue without being challenged. We should have the opportunity to divide on each item so that they can be given the decent attention they need. I appreciate the time constraints but each item should be debated fully.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The proposal contains 12 separate items, including motions, amendments of Standing Orders and even legislation. I agree with my colleagues it is inappropriate to create a lumpen mass of all of these and to ask us to make a decision on whether to proceed without debate. Like many colleagues, I have concerns about a number of these items while I welcome others. This is a poor approach to business and it needs to be addressed.

I refer to the proposed approval of the Official Languages Act 2003 (Section 9) Regulations 2006, which are back from committee where there was a serious debate on the measures involved. This only underscores the importance of addressing what is involved in No. 23 on the Order of Business and attending to the matter in this Chamber. It is inappropriate that this motion and No. 26, the motion on proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Criminal Justice Act 1984 (Treatment of Persons in Custody in Garda Síochána Stations) (Amendment) Regulations 2006, are proceeding without debate. They should have been accorded the opportunity of full debate. While serious issues, of which we are all aware, have been mentioned in the House already this morning the reality is that this motion relates to the extension of time without address of the provisions for the protection of people in custody. This also has implications for members of the Garda as it fails to reflect on the importance of introducing video interviewing. Such protections are in the interests of every one of us as members of society and citizens.

There are issues relating to the regional fisheries boards and the postponement of elections and, again, many voices have expressed concern in this regard. This is most objectionable. I believe the Tánaiste recognises this. He should intervene with the Chief Whip. It is not acceptable to cram all of these measures together on our last day in the House to steam roll them through. As others have said, there were instances in the past session when there was insufficient business to be attended to. This should not happen again. I am opposed to the approach taken to all of these measures this morning.

The Tánaiste

Most of these items, with the exception of arrangements for January, have been discussed at length in committees and every Member of this House is entitled to attend and participate in those meetings. The committee meetings have been reported to this House after extensive discussion and it does not make sense to have a duplicate discussion here when Members of this House refrained from availing of the opportunity to attend committees and discuss their findings in detail.

Mr. Durkan

That is not true.

Mr. Boyle

Not all of the items were discussed in committees.

The Tánaiste

We must press ahead with the business of the House and I hope there will be unanimity today in sending a message to the Garda Síochána that we support the extension of the provisions on drug trafficking and that we support the extension of time of detention for questioning.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

It is the support the Garda Síochána is not receiving that worries us.

The Tánaiste

We should unite in saying these things to the Garda Síochána as it looks to this House for guidance and support in a difficult time.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 22a, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 30a, 7a and 7b without debate be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided by electronic means.

Mr. Kehoe

As a teller, under Standing Order 69 I propose that the vote be taken by other than electronic means.

An Ceann Comhairle

As Deputy Kehoe is a Whip, under Standing Order 69 he is entitled to call a vote through the lobby.

Question again put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 22a, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 30a, 7a and 7b without debate be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 68; Níl, 53.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Andrews, Barry.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Blaney, Niall.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Brady, Martin.
• Browne, John.
• Callanan, Joe.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Carey, Pat.
• Carty, John.
• Cassidy, Donie.
• Collins, Michael.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cregan, John.
• Cullen, Martin.
• Curran, John.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dempsey, Tony.
• Dennehy, John.
• Devins, Jimmy.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Fox, Mildred.
• Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
• Glennon, Jim.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Harney, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Healy-Rae, Jackie.
• Hoctor, Máire.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Keaveney, Cecilia.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Peter.
• Killeen, Tony.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• McDowell, Michael.
• Moloney, John.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Mulcahy, Michael.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• O’Dea, Willie.
• O’Donnell, Liz.
• O’Donoghue, John.
• O’Flynn, Noel.
• O’Keeffe, Batt.
• O’Keeffe, Ned.
• O’Malley, Fiona.
• O’Malley, Tim.
• Power, Seán.
• Roche, Dick.
• Sexton, Mae.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wilkinson, Ollie.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wright, G.V.

Níl

• Allen, Bernard.
• Boyle, Dan.
• Breen, James.
• Breen, Pat.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Connolly, Paudge.
• Costello, Joe.
• Crawford, Seymour.
• Cuffe, Ciarán.
• Deasy, John.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Paul.
• Morgan, Arthur.
• Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Gerard.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Dowd, Fergus.
• O’Keeffe, Jim.
• O’Shea, Brian.
• O’Sullivan, Jan.
• Pattison, Séamus.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Perry, John.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Upton, Mary.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 2, Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — amendments from the Seanad, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 30c, Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2006 [Seanad] — motion to instruct the committee, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 34, Report and Final Stages of the Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2006 [Seanad], agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 35, Report and Final Stages of the Citizens Information Bill 2006, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5b, Second and Subsequent Stages of the Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill 2006 [Seanad], agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8, Second Stage of the Foyle and Carlingford Fisheries Bill 2006, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9, Second Stage of the Carbon Fund Bill 2006, agreed?

Mr. Sargent

It is opposed. This legislation has to be dealt with today, which is the last sitting day before Christmas. This country is at a major crossroads, at which it needs to decide whether it will use extraordinary amounts of taxpayers' money to buy carbon credits, or motivate and mobilise the people to take alternative action. People in the business community, in particular, will gain a great deal if they embrace the opportunities offered by a low-carbon economy. The message the Government is sending is that it is business as usual.

Mr. Roche

The Deputy wants to close businesses.

Mr. Sargent

The Government is prepared to pay its way out of this problem.

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy is making a Second Stage speech.

Mr. Sargent

It is taking an extraordinarily irresponsible and short-sighted line, particularly at a time when the price of carbon is about to rocket. Anybody who reads the international literature on this matter knows there is no way the Government can argue that this matter can be boxed off and dealt with at the last minute, at the end of term.

Mr. Roche

That is nonsense.

Mr. Sargent

I oppose such an approach because it sends the wrong signal.

An Ceann Comhairle

We have not yet commenced the Second Stage debate on the Bill. The Deputy will have an opportunity to speak about the matter when that debate takes place.

Mr. Sargent

I will have a short enough time slot. I have to take every opportunity I get.

An Ceann Comhairle

The House is deciding on the amount of time it will spend on this matter.

Mr. Sargent

I will have just five minutes to speak in the debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have five minutes later today.

Mr. Sargent

It will not be enough — that is the point.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy opposing the proposal before the House?

Mr. Sargent

I am opposing it.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 9 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 55.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Andrews, Barry.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Blaney, Niall.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Brady, Martin.
• Browne, John.
• Callanan, Joe.
• Carey, Pat.
• Carty, John.
• Cassidy, Donie.
• Collins, Michael.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cregan, John.
• Cullen, Martin.
• Curran, John.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dempsey, Tony.
• Dennehy, John.
• Devins, Jimmy.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Fox, Mildred.
• Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
• Glennon, Jim.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Hoctor, Máire.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Keaveney, Cecilia.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Peter.
• Killeen, Tony.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• McDowell, Michael.
• Moloney, John.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Mulcahy, Michael.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• O’Connor, Charlie.
• O’Dea, Willie.
• O’Donnell, Liz.
• O’Donoghue, John.
• O’Flynn, Noel.
• O’Keeffe, Batt.
• O’Keeffe, Ned.
• O’Malley, Fiona.
• O’Malley, Tim.
• Roche, Dick.
• Sexton, Mae.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wilkinson, Ollie.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wright, G.V.

Níl

• Allen, Bernard.
• Boyle, Dan.
• Breen, James.
• Breen, Pat.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Connolly, Paudge.
• Costello, Joe.
• Crawford, Seymour.
• Cuffe, Ciarán.
• Deasy, John.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gormley, John.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Paul.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Morgan, Arthur.
• Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Gerard.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Dowd, Fergus.
• O’Keeffe, Jim.
• O’Shea, Brian.
• O’Sullivan, Jan.
• Pattison, Seamus.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Perry, John.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Sargent, Trevor.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Upton, Mary.
• Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Boyle and Kehoe.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with Question Time today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 24 January 2007 agreed?

Mr. Bruton

I oppose this item. In the past session we were promised 21 Bills and we have seen only five of them. In respect of three of those, the Appropriations Bill, the Social Welfare Bill and the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill, the Government was statutorily obliged to produce them because of the timing issues. Of the remaining, the Government produced only two Bills out of a total of 19. That is not a record the Government can reflect on and say it has delivered to this House the sort of legislation on which we can have meaningful debate about issues of serious concern.

It is not good intentions that determine the effectiveness of the Government; it is results. On this measure the Government has not delivered results. It has not delivered results on zero tolerance, zero waiting lists or children in classes of 20 yet it has asked ordinary families to come up with €7,500 more than they used to pay in tax. That is the acid test. This Government is not delivering on its own promises, nor is it delivering for the amount of money it is raising. It has failed in its legislative programme. It does not deserve the support of this House, nor does it deserve to go off on the Christmas break and hide behind a debate it proposes to have when we resume in which there will be no accountability on the part of the Taoiseach or Ministers and no opportunity for the Opposition parties to have a debate. We oppose this motion.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. Stagg

One of the important principles of democracy is that the Executive should be accountable to the Parliament. What is being proposed by the Executive today is a negation of that principle whereby the Dáil will assemble without an opportunity for any form of accountability. Even if there is a division on the matter that will be debated, that division will be deferred to a later date. That is not acceptable.

The Labour Party and Fine Gael published proposals on Dáil reform earlier in the year, one of which was that the Dáil would reassemble in the third week of January. In accordance with that, we propose an amendment to the proposal before us——

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, we will take your amendment when we come to No. 22a because the sitting on the third week of January is by way of a motion and we will come to that after the Order of Business. We will deal with the amendment then.

Mr. Stagg

It is a strange way of dealing with it, and I am as familiar with the system as you, a Cheann Comhairle. However, I will accept your ruling on that.

A total of 12 items have been passed by this Dáil today without debate and guillotines will be imposed on seven Bills. If my recollection is correct, the Dáil collapsed on three separate occasions for lack of business yet in the week it reassembles we will engage in an exercise of sanitised democracy when no real business will be transacted and we will simply have a debate.

Mr. Sargent

The Green Party opposes this proposal and supports the motion to which Deputy Stagg referred. I do not want to delay the Tánaiste any longer from going to speak on European matters at the forum but it is important for him to bear in mind at the forum that we do not compare well to other European countries when it comes to sitting days in this House and the way we conduct our business. Against the backdrop of escalating crime levels, it does not send out the right signal. I mentioned the signal sent out by the carbon fund Bill. Our approach generally gives the impression of "cut and run" and it is an admission of defeat.

The Dáil should resume earlier and sit for longer. There is no excuse for not doing that. Other workers are busy and many of them will be lucky to be off work for the period from Christmas Eve to New Year's Day. There is an important accountability lesson to be learnt that the Government has not learnt. This parliament should have the same number of sitting days as other European parliaments, and as Westminster in particular, with which we deal more often than with other parliaments. That, for me, is a benchmark.

Dr. Woods

How are we so far ahead of those countries?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Kehoe

Senator O'Rourke will look after the Deputy.

Mr. C. Lenihan

This is the most productive Parliament in Europe.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputies Kehoe and Ring to allow Deputy Ó Caoláin, who is waiting patiently to speak having been called by the Chair, to continue without interruption.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It must be recognised that following a month of recess it is not acceptable to return to this House on 24 and 25 January and for us not to have an opportunity to address whatever important issues may present in the weeks ahead. Accountability of Government is critically important and any number of issues will arise that will be relevant and appropriate to raise either by way of Leaders' Questions, Taoiseach's questions, questions to Ministers or in some other way. To restrict the business of those two days to taking Second Stage of one Bill and not address any of the other important matters that this House must accommodate is simply not acceptable. Accordingly, I oppose the proposition.

The Tánaiste

I agree with the Deputies opposite that much time is wasted in this House. We have now spent well over an hour——

Mr. Ring

The Tánaiste is in a hurry.

Mr. Allen

He was not here for two days.

The Tánaiste

——discussing what we will discuss today——

Mr. Bruton

He could be off opening a café bar.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

That is probably what the Taoiseach is doing.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Tánaiste to continue without interruption.

The Tánaiste

——and talking about talk and about work. The Deputies opposite are great men at talking about talk but they do not walk the walk.

(Interruptions).

A Deputy

The Deputies opposite do not want democracy.

Ms Burton

The Tánaiste is responsible for equality issues. We have many men in this House but not many women. We need more women in this House. We have had more ráiméis from this Minister at a time when there are guns on our streets. On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.

Ms Burton

On a point of order——

Mr. Bruton

The Government does not want democracy.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputies are complaining about this not being a democratic assembly.

Ms Burton

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy resumes her seat and if Members keep quiet when a Member is called on to speak——

Ms Burton

Will the Chair take a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle

——it would look more like a democratic Chamber. Allow the Tánaiste to continue without interruption.

Ms Burton

Will the Chair take a point of order?

An Ceann Comhairle

I will.

Ms Burton

The Minister is responsible for equality issues and he addresses mainly men in this House——

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Ms Burton

An issue concerning women may not be considered a point of order for the Chair or the Government but it is——

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Having the Minister, Deputy McDowell, with responsibility for equality issues is a contradiction in itself.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled on the matter. I call the Tánaiste to continue without interruption.

The Tánaiste

The week of parliamentary time that will be spent on the legislation on nursing homes when we resume will be time well spent.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It will be only two half days, it will not be a week.

The Tánaiste

Yes, it will be an unusual week. It will be a week during which we will not waste an hour every morning talking about the rest of the day.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

I know how disappointed——-

Mr. Kehoe

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will not hear a point of order while the Deputy's colleagues continue to interrupt.

Mr. Kehoe

What we are seeking on sitting days is accountability, and that is what this Government does not want to give.

An Ceann Comhairle: That is not a point of order. The Deputy should resume his seat. I will put the question on the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 24 January 2007 be agreed to.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 11 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 65; Níl, 53.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Andrews, Barry.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Blaney, Niall.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Brady, Martin.
• Breen, James.
• Browne, John.
• Callanan, Joe.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Carey, Pat.
• Carty, John.
• Cassidy, Donie.
• Connolly, Paudge.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cregan, John.
• Cullen, Martin.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dempsey, Tony.
• Dennehy, John.
• Devins, Jimmy.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Fox, Mildred.
• Glennon, Jim.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Hoctor, Máire.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Keaveney, Cecilia.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Peter.
• Killeen, Tony.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• McDowell, Michael.
• Moloney, John.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Mulcahy, Michael.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• O’Connor, Charlie.
• O’Dea, Willie.
• O’Donnell, Liz.
• O’Donoghue, John.
• O’Flynn, Noel.
• O’Keeffe, Batt.
• O’Keeffe, Ned.
• O’Malley, Fiona.
• O’Malley, Tim.
• Roche, Dick.
• Sexton, Mae.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wilkinson, Ollie.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wright, G.V.

Níl

• Allen, Bernard.
• Boyle, Dan.
• Breen, Pat.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burton, Joan.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Crawford, Seymour.
• Cuffe, Ciarán.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gormley, John.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Paul.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Morgan, Arthur.
• Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Gerard.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Dowd, Fergus.
• O’Keeffe, Jim.
• O’Shea, Brian.
• O’Sullivan, Jan.
• Pattison, Seamus.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Perry, John.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Sargent, Trevor.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Upton, Mary.
• Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mr. Bruton

The Taoiseach indicated yesterday that some of the most vicious criminals are currently charged. However, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform indicated today on "Morning Ireland" that many of them are out on bail. They can commit crimes and intimidate witnesses. What proposals does the Tánaiste have to amend the bail laws? Will he take on board some of the Fine Gael proposals made by Deputy Jim O'Keeffe?

The Tánaiste

There is no promised legislation in the area. I am reviewing currently the bail procedures and it is my intention to ask the President of the High Court to have a special bail list for firearms and drugs offences, so that a uniform approach to bail issues for those offenders can be maintained as much as possible.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

They are currently included under serious offences in the bail law.

Mr. Rabbitte

I remind the Tánaiste of the solemn undertaking he gave to Deputy Broughan about the material submitted to the Deputy by the families of the victims of the Stardust tragedy. He undertook to come back to him within three weeks. Three weeks have elapsed and the families involved are concerned that the Government is trying to evade a decision on this important matter. They went to a lot of trouble and expense——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is strictly not in order, but I will allow it if the Deputy is brief.

Mr. Rabbitte

——in submitting material to the Tánaiste and they want to know where they stand on the final day of this session.

The Minister is about to permit gaming machines in bookmakers in this jurisdiction. Representations have been made to me about the implications of that for vulnerable people in our society.

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business. A number of the Deputy's colleagues are offering to speak. I would like to facilitate them, but I must move on.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Minister intend to prohibit this possibility?

The Tánaiste

The Taoiseach will be in contact with the relatives of the victims of the Stardust tragedy in the near future. I had a conversation with him about it a couple of days ago. The Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 is currently before the House and it deals with the issue of gaming and lotteries. Fixed odds gaming machines are illegal and they are liable to be seized from anyone who installs them.

Mr. Sargent

While respecting the decision made under Standing Order 31 on my request, I would like to ask whether the criminal justice miscellaneous provisions Bill or the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2006 will take into account Senator Brady's brain wave——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should only ask questions appropriate to the Order of Business——

Mr. Sargent

I tried to get this issue raised under Standing Order 31. I have no other avenue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I wish to facilitate other Deputies and there is a Bill to be concluded at 12.15 p.m.

Mr. Sargent

Can the Tánaiste indicate whether Senator Brady has influenced these Bills?

The Tánaiste

The criminal justice miscellaneous provisions Bill will be published next year. I made my position clear on the other matter this morning on the radio. The Deputy heard me himself.

Mr. Ring

We have very serious flooding problems in Mayo, especially in the south of the county. The road between Ballinrobe and the Neal has been closed for a week. Is there any promised legislation on arterial flooding? This is a disaster in the west. Does the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government have any proposals? Nobody is taking responsibility for anything in this country anymore. The Minister rubs his hands and gets driven around in State cars, but I would like to know who will take responsibility for flooding.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would like to move on to the motion to withdraw——

Mr. Ring

No, I want an answer. The Tánaiste is running away.

(Interruptions).

Mr. Timmins

On a point of order, this is an absolute disgrace. This is the last Order of Business of the session, but the Tánaiste has high-tailed it out of the House even though Members have questions for him.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair made it clear that we were moving on. There is a Bill before the House to be concluded at 12.15 p.m.

Mr. Timmins

That is disgraceful. There is an empty chair across from us.

Mr. Kitt

It is 12 o'clock now.

Mr. Ring

The Tánaiste has run out of the Dáil.