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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Apr 2007

Vol. 635 No. 2

Other Questions.

Garda Equipment.

Ciarán Cuffe

Question:

10 Mr. Cuffe asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his plans to install two-way mirrors in every Garda station in order that victims of crime can identify a suspect without having to come face to face with that person; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12991/07]

I take the Deputy's reference to two way mirrors in his question to be to one-way mirrors. I did not think up that line — that came from one of my officials. Deputy Cuffe has a fan somewhere.

The process by which the identification of a suspect by a victim or witness occurs is an important part of the criminal justice process. Formal identification parades are the main way this information is tested prior to court. In this jurisdiction, there are no published statutory provisions governing the procedure to be followed in the conduct of an identity parade.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that instructions issued to every member of the Garda set out how, based on established best practice and case law precedent, a parade should be conducted. The current procedure used by the Garda was introduced following advice from the law officers. It involves each participant in an identity parade being assigned a number. To ensure there is no doubt as to the person the victim or witness has identified, it is necessary that a clear identification is made. This may be done in a number of ways, including pointing or stating the position or number of a person on the line-up or stating a number assigned to them. Prior to this the procedure necessitated the witness or victim placing their hand on the person as part of the identification process, which does not involve a one-way mirror.

The balance in the criminal law review group, which reported to me last month, noted that it was not clear that a change in the law was required to allow the use of one-way mirrors. The group favoured the concept of allowing an injured party to identify the suspect through a one way screen as far as practicable. I support this recommendation in principle and I am considering it with a view to determining how it should be implemented. Should dedicated rooms with galleries, lighting and so on be established? Should a portable screen be used, which could be transported between Garda stations? This involves logistics and resources exercises. If a mirror is placed in every Garda station, how often will it be used? Should mirrors be deployed on a divisional basis or would it be better to use a portable unit, which could permit a witness to identify somebody where he or she was being detained rather than bringing him or her to a station in which the one-way mirror system was in place?

Generally, I agree completely with the Deputy that it was unsatisfactory that victims were required to put their hands on somebody but that is no longer the case. They should not be brought into the person's presence but identity parades must be the subject of some formality and scrutiny because there is no point in bringing six small people and one large person in if a large person is the suspect. Somebody must observe what happens and there must be some degree of formality. The quality of an identity parade is hugely important to the reliability of the evidence in question. Bearing in mind existing law, which is quite circumspect about, and suspicious of, visual identification, it is all the more important that we get this right. I am grateful to the Deputy for raising the issue and I intend to progress it in the context of the report of the Hogan committee.

I thank the Minister for noting my belated April fool's attempt. However, this is a deadly serious issue and it must be an awful experience for a victim of a rape or a mugging to have to touch his or her attacker on the shoulder. One can only imagine the trauma a victim would experience if forced to go through that. It is almost as traumatic for the victim to look his or her attacker in the eye in a line up.

It is not rocket science to retrofit one-way glass in an office in a Garda station and such a room could be used as a normal office most of the time. It is simply a matter of adjusting the lighting behind the glass. Will the Minister listen to the Rape Crisis Centre and Victim Support? They want the suffering and trauma experienced by victims of such crimes to be limited. These facilities should be in place in larger Garda stations, which experience significant crime reporting. It is not impractical to retrofit such rooms and it is time to move on this. This would be a small but practical step to make victims of crime feel safer when coming forward to report a crime. It would also send a signal that the Government and the Garda will provide support for people who have been through traumatic events. It is grossly traumatic for a rape victim to have to face his or her attacker, look the person in the eye and, if not touch them on the shoulder, make a sign that the person attacked him or her. That can be just as frightening as dealing with the aftermath of violence, rape or a serious assault.

I ask the Minister to move much more quickly on this. Many European countries have such facilities in place and they are also commonplace in the US. As a matter of human decency, courtesy and respect, we should move ahead with such one-way mirrors.

I agree with the Deputy but clearly if I was an accused person who allegedly was picked out in an identity parade and I did not see the person picking me out or did not see who was with the person at the time or what they were doing vis-à-vis, me, that would be a matter of concern. One of the implications of the one-way mirror system is that the accused cannot at a later point say what was happening when he or she was identified and, therefore, a case could be made for videotaping not merely the parade itself but also the room in which the identification took place behind the mirror so it could not be said afterwards the person had difficulties pointing out somebody and pointed towards one person or another in circumstances where the accused could not see what was happening. That is the countervailing difficulty, which would tend to suggest dedicated suites should be used for the purpose. That, in turn, would involve making a serious decision on the number of suites throughout the State. These issues must be considered.

Does the Minister accept he is dealing with the issue in his usual abstract, academic way? An operational approach to the issue is needed, as Deputy Cuffe rightly highlighted. We discussed this issue last week in the context of an amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill 2007 and the Minister was at the same level referring to difficulties. Something must be done about this because it is not a new issue. It was mentioned in the Leahy report five years ago and it was touched on in the Hogan report last week. There are two issues. Is there a need for legal cover?

The Hogan report said this was doubtful and I tabled an enabling amendment to the Criminal Justice Bill in case it was needed. The second issue is practical. As Deputy Cuffe pointed out, one-way mirrors are used in most other countries. We do not have to reinvent the wheel. Can the Government not learn from what they are doing and implement a similar system?

I agree with the Deputy that this is an urgent matter which should be addressed. A decision must be made on this. I do not organise the interior of Garda stations and I urge others to do so.

I thought the Minister micromanaged everything.

Garda Deployment.

Brian O'Shea

Question:

11 Mr. O’Shea asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the current 20% shortfall in positions occupied in the Garda national drugs unit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7685/07]

I am informed by the Garda authorities that a total of 331 gardaí are dedicated to national and regional drugs units. These units are also supported in their work by officers from other national units such as the national bureau of criminal investigation, the Garda bureau of fraud investigation and the Criminal Assets Bureau. In addition, all gardaí are tasked with confronting drugs-related issues as they arise. As the Deputy will appreciate, policing operations and the deployment of Garda resources are matters for the Garda Commissioner. It is the responsibility of Garda management to allocate personnel within the Garda organisation on a priority basis in accordance with overall policing requirements. The Garda Commissioner responsible for the allocation of Garda officers sanctioned the immediate recruitment at a minimum of an additional two sergeants and ten gardaí to the national drugs unit, thereby increasing the personnel strength of the unit to 60. I understand that competitive interviews for these positions have recently been completed and the additional personnel will shortly be appointed. Garda personnel assigned throughout the country, together with overall policing arrangements and operational strategy, are continually monitored and reviewed by him. Such monitoring ensures optimum use is made of Garda resources, and the best policing service is provided to the public. I have been informed by the Garda authorities that the total personnel strength in all ranks of the Garda national drugs unit is 48 although that is, as I said, about to be increased to 60. On 1 March 2007 there was one detective chief superintendent, two detective superintendents, three detective inspectors, one inspector who was a customs liaison officer, seven detective sergeants, two sergeants, 31 detective gardaí and one uniformed garda. In conjunction with this, I am informed by the Garda authorities that the Commissioner is also currently arranging for an additional allocation of personnel to the national unit.

On the broader issue of Garda resources being made available by the Government, in December 2006, as part of a package of anti-crime measures, I secured Government approval for the continuation of the existing Garda recruitment programme to achieve a total Garda strength of 15,000. The Taoiseach and I have recently agreed to increase that figure to 16,000.

Was that following a discussion at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis?

It was before that.

The Minister caught up with the Taoiseach. He must have run after him.

He was not the only one consulted.

I am consulted. Additional Garda resources are coming on stream all the time, with an accelerated intake of approximately 1,100 new recruits per annum into the Garda College. These additional human resources will facilitate the Garda Commissioner in transforming the Garda Síochána by the allocation of additional manpower to areas most in need.

There is a demand for members of the Garda Síochána everywhere, which is why the civilianisation programme is gathering strength.

It is needed now.

I remind the Deputy that, when his party was in office with the Labour Party, the number of gardaí was allowed to decline at a time when the population was rising.

Late last year the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform described increasing gangland activity, particularly gangland murders, as analogous to attacks on the State by subversives in earlier decades. Does he agree that the increase in gangland activity is largely based on the drugs industry in the State? In that context, does he agree that to staff the national drugs unit with just 48 members is scandalous, considering that in 2005 there were 55 members and in 2002 there were 50? Has he heard a firm date from the Commissioner as to when the additional members, bringing the complement up to the weak target of 60, will be appointed?

Seizures of heroin last year amounted to 136 kg with an estimated street value of €27.2 million. That represented a fourfold increase on the volume of seizures in 2005 and, as is evident from international statistics, that is only a fraction of the volume of heroin available on the streets.

Was the Minister as shocked as I was by the test undertaken by DCU on banknotes in which 100%, of an admittedly small sample, showed signs of cocaine? Does he accept that cocaine now pervades society across this country and is widely used? If the words he uttered at the end of last year are to be taken seriously, does he not agree that having a national drugs unit with fewer members than years ago is lamentable?

I will put this discussion in context. We discussed the Criminal Assets Bureau earlier and the strength of the Garda Síochána in terms of numbers involved in the battle against drugs has grown substantially over recent years but they are located across the country.

Does the Minister have the numbers?

The 331 officers to whom I referred are the ones on whom we should concentrate, as opposed to those in the centralised unit. The same arguments made by Deputy Cuffe for localising resources apply to CAB. At the end of December 2002, there were 50 people in the national drugs unit and in 2003 there were 52. In 2004 the unit had 49 members, in 2005 it had 55 and in 2006 there were 48.

There are 48 now.

That is correct. It has not changed by more than a handful over that period. However, the strength of drug units nationally has expanded substantially in the same period.

I agree with Deputy Howlin that drugs are a very serious issue but drugs units are not the only component of the battle against gang land. Detective units carrying out surveillance and other operations and the armed detective units who participated in Operation Anvil and Operation Oak work shoulder to shoulder with the drug detectives so the 331 gardaí and 48 members of the national drugs unit do not represent the total complement dealing with gangland activity.

I also agree with the Deputy that cocaine specifically is a very serious problem and have spoken out against the notion that it is a recreational drug which people are free to take in a libertarian way without consequence to others. There is a direct consequence to others as there cannot be cocaine without cocaine cartels or cocaine cartels without people being shot down. The consumption of cocaine has profound effects on our society.

The test carried out by DCU was very interesting because it suggests cocaine is widely available in Ireland. If, however, money is sorted and counted in machines, cross-contamination may occur and the fact that every note had a trace of cocaine could well be a result of cocaine-soiled notes being sorted with others. I do not draw the conclusion that every note in people's pockets has recently been in the hands of a drug user.

A variety of notes were tested and some contamination levels were very high. Some had a concentration greater than two nanograms per note and some had levels 100 times higher, so the traces were not tiny.

Nanograms are very small.

I have no idea how big a nanogram is. A similar survey on dollar bills in the US showed 65% to be contaminated so it is worrying.

The Minister said there were 12 vacancies, for two sergeants and ten gardaí, to bring the complement of the national drugs unit up to 60. There is agreement that their recruitment is a minimum requirement so when can we expect them to be in place?

Competitive interviews were carried out recently so appointments will follow very rapidly. I cannot give a date as I do not micromanage the Garda Síochána.

Anti-Social Behaviour.

Catherine Murphy

Question:

12 Ms C. Murphy asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if, during the planning, drafting and enactment of the Criminal Justice Act 2006, an investigation was conducted into the likelihood and extent of additional administration costs with respect to ASBOs; if his Department has allocated or has planned to allocate additional staffing or resources to undertake the additional administration duties that such orders may cause; the way a failure to deploy additional staff or resources to undertake the administration of ASBO-related matters will impact on the ability of existing gardaí and administration staff to complete their existing tasks in a timely fashion; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12845/07]

While obviously it is difficult to predict in advance the extent to which ASBOs will be resorted to, there is absolutely no question of a lack of resources inhibiting the effective operation of ASBOs.

I directed the commencement of Part 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006, which provides for civil proceedings for anti-social behaviour by adults, on 1 January 2007. The application by the Garda Síochána to the courts for a civil order comes at the end of a process. The first step in the procedure is that a member of the Garda Síochána issues a behaviour warning to a person who has behaved in an anti-social manner. The behaviour warning warns the person that failure to comply with the demand may result in an application to the courts for a civil order or that issuing of a subsequent behaviour order might also result in an application to the courts for a civil order. If a behaviour warning or a series of warnings does not result in the person changing his or her behaviour, the Garda Síochána may apply to the District Court for a civil order to prohibit the person from doing anything specified in the order. An order will remain in force for a period specified in the order, which cannot be longer than two years. If no period is specified, an order will remain in force for two years. The penalties for breach of an order are a fine not exceeding €3,000 or a maximum of six months imprisonment or both.

I commenced Part 13 of the Act relating to anti-social behaviour by children on 1 March 2007. These provisions set out an incremental procedure for addressing anti-social behaviour by children, including: a warning from a member of the Garda Síochána; a good behaviour contract involving the child and his or her parents or guardian; referral to the Garda juvenile diversion programme; and the making of a behaviour order by the Children Court.

I am advised by the Garda authorities that the number of behaviour warnings recorded since 1 January 2007 is 21. There have been no civil orders for adults or behaviour orders for children sought in this period, which is to be expected in view of what I have just told the House. For both adults and children, a behaviour warning remains in place for three months from date of issue. For children specifically, a good behaviour contract lasts for six months, but may be renewed for a further three months. The approach the legislation adopts is to make every effort so that the child and his or her parents or guardian address the child's behavioural problems in a way that minimises contact with the courts system. The Act ensures there is full parental involvement at all relevant stages. It is therefore highly unlikely that a Garda officer would apply for a civil order or a behaviour order before the end of these periods.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

I am confident the Garda Síochána has the resources to operate the provisions of the Act.

The detailed allocation of Garda resources, including the allocation of personnel to various units is a matter for the Garda authorities. The deployment of Garda personnel throughout the country, together with overall policing arrangements and operational strategy, is continually monitored and reviewed. Such monitoring ensures that optimum use is made of Garda resources and the best possible Garda service is provided to the public.

In December 2006, I announced Government approval for 300 additional civilian support staff for the Garda Síochána to release an equal number of gardaí from administrative duties and free them up for operational policing duties. The Garda Commissioner has signed a service level agreement with the Public Appointments Service for the provision of candidates on a weekly basis to be offered positions in the Garda Síochána until the 300 clerical officer posts are filled. Since the beginning of the year, 93 additional clerical officers have been appointed to the Garda Síochána, and a further 46 persons have been offered a clerical officer post. It is anticipated that some of the newly recruited clerical officers will carry out administrative tasks on the administration of the provisions of the legislation.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that the personnel strength, all ranks, of the Garda Síochána increased to a record 13,178, following the attestation of 273 new members on 14 March 2007. This compares with a total strength of 10,702, all ranks, on 30 June 1997 and represents an increase of 2,776, more than 23% in the personnel strength of the force during that period. The combined strength, all ranks, of both attested gardaí and recruits in training on 14 March was 14,258. Furthermore, on 19 December 2006 as part of the package of anti-crime measures, the Government approved the continuation of the existing Garda recruitment programme to achieve a total Garda strength of 15,000. The accelerated intake of approximately 1,100 new recruits per annum into the Garda College will continue until this target is met. The Garda budget now stands at €1.4 billion, an 11% increase on 2006 and its highest level ever.

I wish to ascertain the additional burden on the Garda and whether it was fully evaluated. Clearly considerable time will be spent on tracking, as was the case in the UK where much administration of ASBOs is involved. Many of the activities that are the subject of ASBOs relate to criminal rather than anti-social behaviour. Breaking up bus shelters, phone boxes etc. is rightly within the remit of the Garda. Before I was elected to this House I was critical of us having many laws without the ability to put them into practice because of resource issues or failure to think out the practical elements of applying the law. What evaluation was done on the application of such orders prior to the introduction of legislation? Is it a case of introducing legislation and then discovering how it pans out? I am concerned that we might divert gardaí from activities like community policing and areas where they are most visible. We will spread the resources even more thinly because they will have to deal with even more administration. What resource implications were considered prior to the introduction of the legislation?

The Deputy has a somewhat mathematical approach to the matter. I cannot say in advance, nor can anybody make an intelligent guess as to the level of resources that would be applied unless we came to a conclusion on how many such orders would be issued. If I were asked in December how many orders would be issued by the start of April, I could not have predicted whether it would have been 21 or 221. I was not in a position to say that. Local Garda superintendents take a very shrewd and experienced view on what they want to do with their resources. They need to make decisions on community policing and other issues, including whether it is appropriate to issue an ASBO in a particular case or to use the conventional criminal law.

For instance vandalising a phone kiosk is not anti-social behaviour; it is a criminal offence. For a garda who is aware that an individual has behaved in that way, I do not believe it is appropriate — I venture my opinion — to regard that simply as anti-social behaviour. It is something more serious; it is a criminal offence. I do not suggest that it needs to proceed to a criminal trial. On some occasions the youth diversion programme might represent the appropriate approach to keep children out of trouble and juvenile liaison officers may be the appropriate people to address such matters. The Deputy's question presupposes that someone sat down at a desk and decided that 400 orders would be issued by June 2007, consuming 380 man-hours which would be taken from the community-policing budget. That kind of operation does not take place. If we were to decide to change the limits for drink driving, nobody would sit down to decide how many additional prosecutions would take place because they do not know. The Garda makes a decision based on policy and afterwards it ascertains how the offence carries through. While I am not trying to avoid the Deputy's question, I have a sneaking suspicion that she does not like ASBOs at all.

That is the point. Therefore she is asking whether a mathematical exercise was carried out to determine the amount of resources necessary to make them effective. The answer is that it was not. We do not live in a command economy where somebody can sit in a room and predict on the basis of 1,000 ASBOs by December so many additional Garda resources would be necessary. The real world does not work that way.

May I ask a supplementary question?

We have exceeded the time allowed and must proceed with other business.

Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.

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