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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 Oct 2007

Vol. 639 No. 1

Fire Services: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

expresses its deep concern at the death of two fire-fighters during the course of a fire in Bray, County Wicklow on 26 September;

acknowledges the bravery of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy and extends its profound sympathy to the families and colleagues of the two men;

commends the members of the full-time and retained fire service across the country for their sterling work for the community;

supports the call made by their colleagues for an independent investigation into the death of the two fire-fighters; and

regrets the failure of the Government to implement in full the recommendations of the Farrell Grant Sparks Review of Fire Safety and Fire Services in Ireland, submitted to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in January 2002;

calls for

the establishment of a National Authority for Fire and Civil Protection/Emergency Services, one of the key recommendations of the review; and

the establishment of full-time fire services in areas of high population, such as Bray.

I wish to share time with Deputies McManus and Ferris.

I acknowledge the presence in the Visitors Gallery of family members of the two deceased members of the retained fire service along with their colleagues.

The entire country has been shocked by the deaths of sub officer Brian Murray and fire fighter Mark O'Shaughnessy who died in the line of duty fighting a fire in Bray. The tragic events of 26 September once again remind us of the risks that members of the fire service throughout the land face on a daily basis. Their job is one of duty that is underpinned by the courage of going to work each day having to deal with and manage dangerous and life threatening situations. In the period following this recent tragedy people all over the country have rightly once again acknowledged the courage of members of the full-time and retained fire services in every part of Ireland, and upon whom we all depend for our safety.

However during this period of sadness and public sympathy, a number of serious issues have also been raised by the Bray fire deaths. Colleagues of the two men have called for an independent investigation into their deaths and the Government should respond to this call. In addition, we believe the Dáil and the public are entitled to an explanation as to why so many of the recommendations of the Farrell Grant Sparks review of fire safety and fire services, submitted to the Government in January 2002, have not yet been implemented.

One of the key recommendations in that report was the establishment of a national authority for fire and civil protection/emergency services. Unfortunately the Government has refused to act on it and it is time to accept that such an over-arching structure for the fire service is now essential. It also time to recognise that despite the bravery and commitment of retained fire-fighters, some retained fire services are no longer adequate to provide the level of protection required in areas of high population and of high risk. The motion seeks a commitment to the introduction of full-time fire services for Bray and other such areas of high population and of high risk.

In the period following the tragic deaths of sub officer Brian Murray and fire-fighter Mark O'Shaughnessy information has entered the public domain that clearly demonstrates the need for an independent investigation. This is information with regard to the staffing levels, difficulties in rostering arrangements and the time in which the Bray Fire Service was able to dispatch itself to attend to the fire and how dispatch systems between different local authorities operate.

In the aftermath of this tragedy what must be examined are the resources that were available to the men, such as breathing apparatus and procedures, along with hydraulic platforms, the ability to put in place a command and control system, all of which indicate that there were difficulties with a shortage of personnel at the scene in deploying these resources. All of these concerns raise crucial questions that must be answered. It is not enough to say, as has been said, that things may not have been any different whether the firemen who went out on duty on 26 September where part-time or not. Such a speculative statement is by no measure of means an acceptable response to what happened on that day.

These questions can only be answered through the process of an independent investigation in which a full account of the day's events are examined in the full context in which the tragedy occurred. An investigation is owed to the families of these men, their colleagues, the broader fire service, the local community and society as a whole.

There is a narrative leading up to this tragic event that goes back to the Stardust fire in 1981. Unfortunately a recurring theme of that narrative is one in which the State has not strategically responded. Instead it has at times been crisis driven and at other times consistently failed to act upon many of its own recommendations. For instance, following the Fire Services Act 1981, the Stardust tribunal report was published in 1982. Although the terms of reference for the tribunal did not provide for a general review of the fire service it did, however, make a number of key recommendations which had implications for the fire service as a whole. These included that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government should have overall central responsibility for the fire-fighting and fire prevention services provided by the local authorities, the Minister should establish an inspectorate for the fire service with three distinct areas of responsibility, supervision of all fire-fighting services in the country, supervision of fire prevention and fire protection measures in the State and to establish and maintain a national training centre for fire personnel. The inspectorate should prescribe standards of fire cover to be provided by all local authorities. While some other aspects of the tribunal recommendations have been implemented these three key primary points of the report are still outstanding.

In recent years, another major piece of research has been carried out on restructuring of the fire service. A report entitled a Review of Fire Safety and Fire Services in Ireland by Farrell Grant Sparks for the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government was published in 2002. This was the first report of its kind for over two decades and the review noted that "given this lengthy gap it should not come as a surprise to anyone that major change now needs to be implemented".

In particular the review made a number of recommendations for structural change, chief among these, and not so coincidently, was a recommendation earlier indicated in the Stardust tribunal report, namely the creation of a national fire authority. The central recommendation of the Farrell Grant Sparks review was the establishment of a national fire authority.

In making recommendations the review identified a number of minimum core requirements to the structural model for the planning, development and delivery of fire and civil protection/emergency services functions. These were the provision of a strong and integrated focus at national level including the provision of the required competencies and capability, the extension of the concept of regionalisation beyond the communications and mobilisation functions currently co-ordinated at that level in order to achieve greater efficiency, effectiveness and value for money and strengthened, better resourced and more effective arrangements at local fire authority level operating in a more consistent manner and delivering a higher quality of service.

At a national level it recommended that the functions currently discharged by the fire services and emergency planning section of the Department, the fire advisory staff of the Department, and the Fire Services Council "should be brought together into a single unified structure".

The review further set out to recommend the need to establish a new fire and civil protection/emergency services authority to implement the recommendations. In effect this recommended re-titling the Fire Services Council as the Fire and Civil Protection/Emergency Services Authority and, most importantly, expanding its role and remit and integrating into the structure the other staff and resources in the Department currently devoted to fire and emergency planning functions. The review went on to state:

The task of bringing about real change in structures, organisational arrangements, operations, culture and people development with a view to impacting on reductions in fires, fire deaths, injuries and social and economic loss from fire and other emergencies should not be underestimated.

It is, we believe, essential that the core outcome from this Strategic Review will be a headline message, signalling the seriousness of intent to tackle current short-comings, through the establishment of a new Authority to develop, lead and direct a new departure for Fire and Civil Protection/Emergency Services functions in Ireland.

At a regional level it was proposed that three regionally based control centres in the east, the south and the west should be developed, capable of serving the mobilisation and communication needs of the fire authorities in these regions. Taking on board concerns it did not recommend any change to the existing statutory role of the fire authorities. Even at a local level the review demonstrated that the enhanced remit of the local fire and civil protection and emergency services authorities would allow for chief fire officers to have, where appropriate, direct delegation of powers, authority, responsibility and accountability to cover the functions assigned to them.

In examining the retained fire service's role in the new national structure, it saw it as continuing to play a vital role. However, it also saw its capacity to do so as under threat from difficulties such as recruitment, retention and securing release from employers of personnel in the retained fire service. In response it recommended a concerted programme of support and development for the retained service as being necessary were it to continue to play a much needed role in the regime.

The motion before us this evening places a high value on the service provided by the retained fire service and recognises the vital role it plays in fighting fires and protecting lives and property in local communities across the country. However, the events in Bray clearly demonstrate that the intended historical role of this service in many parts of Ireland has now become so extended that it now requires upgrading to a full-time fire service in areas of high population and high risk. We now require a full risk assessment approach to be carried out in areas of high population, which also present high risk factors as has been witnessed by the tragic events in Bray. There are many other examples where a risk assessment would clearly show that full-time fire services are also urgently required in other parts of the country.

For example in county Cork, the largest in Ireland, there is only one full-time fire service which serves the city and immediate regions by agreement. The rest of the county is dependent upon a retained service. Mayo, the second largest county in Ireland, while being a control centre for the western region, has no full-time fire service at all. To expand upon the point, probably the greatest example in the country of the absence of a proper risk assessment approach is the lack of a full-time fire service in the town of Carrigaline. Were a proper risk assessment carried out in this locality it would show that the region has 11 Seveso sites and the highest number of pharmaceutical plants in Ireland. Furthermore the town of Carrigaline, which is in the flight path of Cork Airport, has grown so extensively, from a population of 700 people in 1971 to 15,000 today, as to be now completely unrecognisable today from the town it was.

In the time since the review was published in 2002 we have had four Ministers in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, three in previous administrations and now the Minister, Deputy Gormley, in the present one. When considering his predecessor's records, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, in announcing the publication of the report commented:

The weaknesses identified in the report will have to be addressed. The new approach recommended in the report will have many positive benefits both for full-time and retained fire services personnel throughout the country.

In concluding his comments he gave a clear commitment stating his first priority was to move towards implementation of the recommendations of the report that fell under his direct remit. However, when the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, moved on from this Department the key recommendation to create a national fire authority had not been implemented.

His successor as Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, when eventually announcing the creation of a national fire authority in 2004 said that it was his determination to do it within his tenure in the Department. He went on to say that he had no intention of going anywhere except remaining in the Custom House. Six months later his successor as Minister, Deputy Roche, reversed that decision choosing instead to set up steering groups to drive what he described as change. We now have a new Minister in Deputy Gormley, and this evening's motion affords him the opportunity, if he is willing, to set about fully implementing this report.

If we also examine and breakdown the present structure we see that the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, county and city managers, locally elected politicians, chief fire officers, various individual fire authorities and the National Safety Council are involved. All these bodies represent components of how fire firing and prevention is managed and delivered today. All these individual components work to the best of their ability but not as one single co-ordinated unit. The motion calling for the establishment of a national authority would address this obvious problem and ensure uniformity of structure, training and service delivery across the country.

In my opening remarks I commented upon a narrative leading up to the tragic events of 26 September 2007 that goes right back to the Stardust fire in 1981. An unfortunate and recurring theme of that narrative is one in which the State has not strategically responded to these tragedies. Rather it has at times been crisis driven and sadly consistently failed to act upon many of its own recommendations.

The motion before us this evening gives us an opportunity to show that eventually the lessons have been learnt. The motion gives an opportunity in which this House can rise above the usual and expected responses of Government and Opposition debate. It is an opportunity to demonstrate clearly that the tragic events of 26 September in Bray have at last begun to set into motion the examination and creation of a fire service that meets the needs of today's Ireland. Most of all it is an opportunity to put in place the type of fire authority that the brave personnel of our fire services deserve and which we as a modern society should expect. I call on all Members of the House to support the motion.

I also acknowledge the presence of members of the Murray and O'Shaughnessy families and their friends along with members of the fire service who are in the Gallery. I thank the leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Gilmore, for ensuring that this motion is debated tonight. When a terrible tragedy occurs it is important that it be acknowledged here in our national parliament. In this instance a terrible tragedy occurred when two fire fighters lost their lives in the line of duty. It occurred on 26 September in the town of Bray which I represent and in which I live.

Like every other resident I enjoy the protection and security provided by the men and women of the fire service in Bray. Over generations we have been proud of them and grateful to them. Now we grieve with them and offer whatever consolation we can. The death of two fine young men Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy has shocked and stunned our community to the core. Fire fighting always carries risks but a tragedy like this demands a response from the Government so that some good can come from this calamity. That is the purpose of our motion. I am disappointed that, instead of accepting this motion, the Government wants to amend it so that it will become essentially an empty gesture if passed. I am calling on all Deputies regardless of party affiliation to support the motion which sets out in concrete terms what must be done to provide a high quality fire service nationally as well as ensuring that areas of larger population, including Bray, will have a full-time fire service at last.

I say at last because this issue of a full-time service for Bray is not a new one. There have been other heavy losses of life in the past in our town — the deaths in the Cassidy family and in 2002 the deaths of Teresa and Christopher Cahill in particular. What was inexplicable to most people was that these fires occurred in a housing estate just across the road from the fire station. They led to a campaign spearheaded by Margaret Cahill, Teresa's sister. I pay tribute to Margaret Cahill and those around her on the action committee for a full-time fire service for their steadfast and at times lonely stand.

When this issue was debated by Wicklow County Council and Bray Town Council in 2001 much emphasis was placed on the expected publication of the Farrell Grant Sparks, FGS, report to ensure the right decisions would be made to meet the need. The report was published in 2002 and it recommended a new authority and new standards for the fire service nationally. It had the support of firefighters and fire chiefs and we waited for Government action but it never came. Five years on we are still waiting. A feasibility study was prepared by Wicklow County Council outlining various options. It was carried out with good intentions and I acknowledge the initiative of the then chairman, Joe Behan, who is now a Member of this House. However, in its amendment, the Government is using that feasibility study, which was presented in good faith, to avoid making decisions and that is simply not good enough.

Family members have stated that both Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy had spoken of the great need for a full-time fire service in Bray. Mrs. Murray revealed that only a week before the fire Brian had warned that a firefighter or a member of the public would die by the end of the year unless the fire service was overhauled. As their families mourn them, there is a strong desire among them and across the community that some good should come out of their awful loss. It is a mark of respect to both men that we raise this issue now. I was very struck by the oration at the graveside of Brian Murray when it was said that when a crisis occurred he always responded by saying, "We must do something". When 11 September occurred, he did something practical to raise support for the New York firefighters. The irony is that, comparatively on a population basis, Bray has suffered as great a loss of firefighters as New York did on 11 September. Brian's spirit lives on in his family in its clear and determined support for a full-time service so that something tangible and real can come out of such pain and loss.

As a young man dedicated to his profession who loved his job, Mark O'Shaughnessy also understood its importance. He epitomised the professionalism of the fire fighter and he wanted a full-time service in Bray. We need equal determination on the part of the Government to bring in the reforms set out in the FGS report, which the then Government promised to introduce five years ago. The then Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, acknowledged that 25 years had passed since there had been reforms and he said at the launch of the report:

With the passage of time and having regard to the vastly changed circumstances since the current regime was put in place, it was to be expected that service would be in need of a major overhaul at this point. The weaknesses identified in the report will have to be addressed.

The report recommended the establishment of a new national authority for fire and emergency planning services. New structures were also recommended at local authority level which would mirror the arrangements at national level. The report recommended bringing existing local authority fire services and building control functions together and ensuring more accountability. It also recommended national standards. The then Minister accepted the report stating:

My first priority will be to move towards implementation of the recommendations in the report which fall under the sole ambit of my Department and to consider how best to finance them. I will also discuss with my colleagues in Government, some of whose Departments are affected by the Report's recommendations, how best to carry those recommendations forward. I look forward to full co-operation from staff in the fire services where the Report recommends a significant shift in the way in which business is done — in particular a new interface with local communities. If the fire service is to prosper and to realise the potential seen for it in the Report, all stakeholders will have to press ahead in a genuine spirit of partnership.

I hope a genuine spirit of partnership is entered into in facing up to our responsibilities. The Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, reappointed the then fire services council for a further six months to enable discussions and consultations to proceed and to progress arrangements for the new national fire authority. He clearly envisaged it would take six months to implement but, almost six years later, progress has not been made to live up to that promise and it has taken the deaths of two brave men to bring this issue to centre stage.

The FGS report set out the changing role of the fire service. Bray is a typical town, with a population of more than 30,000, which has changed and developed over recent decades. Its catchment area extends to Kilmacanogue and Enniskerry and its rural hinterland must also be serviced by the fire service. The submission made by the action committee for a full-time service in the town on the feasibility study is worth reading. I urge the Minister to read it because it defines in detail the needs of our area in terms of a full-time fire service. I have served as a councillor and I understand concerns about the cost local authorities must bear but the Government must deal with that. It is untenable that in a country as well off as ours such concerns are expressed and cost can prevent the establishment of the very best fire service nationwide.

The opening of the Ritz Carlton hotel in Enniskerry was postponed because of the deaths of Brian and Mark. When it eventually took place, the Taoiseach pointed out in his speech that the hotel cost €200 million to build. How is it we live in a society that can spend €200 million, albeit in privately raised money, on a luxury hotel while the same amount would provide almost 100 years of full-time service in Bray? Where are our priorities? This tragedy has set us a challenge, which must be met to ensure progress is made and good comes out of it.

The debate is not about blame. I have been asked by members of the media to apportion blame and to turn this into a political football but I have no intention of doing so. That would not do any good but it must be ensured that, while the issue is debated in our national Parliament and goes on public record for future generations to read, the Government responds to the motion in a way that matches the need. We should all share support for action to meet the requirements of a highly quality fire service, including a full-time service in areas of heavy population, including Bray. We should be able to come together on this motion. If we do, there would be no better or more fitting memorial to the memory of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy and clearly it is the one they would have wished for themselves. I regret that we are having the debate in these circumstances but it is important that we acknowledge their sacrifice and the contribution of every fire-fighter and that we live up to the task they have set us.

I thank the Labour Party for facilitating me in contributing to this debate. In supporting this motion, I begin by adding to the tributes paid to the Bray firemen, Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy. On behalf of my party colleagues in the Oireachtas and of the organisation throughout the island, we offer our deepest sympathy to their families.

Their deaths remind us that fire fighting is a dangerous job. The attendance at their funerals and the outpouring of public sympathy were proof of the great esteem in which fire-fighters are held by the entire community. This makes it all the more important that the fire service is properly resourced, equipped and trained. It is unfortunately the case that fire-fighters are sometimes attacked during the course of their duty. All Members are aware of incidents in their community where fire-fighters responding to calls in certain areas come under attack. This is disgraceful and wrong and it must stop. Hopefully, the Bray tragedy will cause those responsible to reflect on their actions, particularly as Hallowe'en, which can be a particularly difficult time of the year for fire crews, approaches.

In supporting the motion's call for the establishment of a national fire authority, I emphasise that this is something my party has called for since 2004, a position we share with SIPTU, which represents Dublin firemen. Fire-fighters themselves recognise the need for an integrated training programme and common standards across the State. They are aware that the best way to ensure this is to establish a national fire authority with the responsibility to put those standards into place.

The failure to date to establish such an authority is puzzling as it would seem to require little ingenuity or initiative on the part of the Government. Failure to do so, however, not only affects the local service but also means that this State is in the embarrassing position of being unable to participate in international co-operation efforts. Other states do not believe Irish fire-fighters are trained to take part in operations, such as those in response to earthquakes and other natural disasters, because of the lack of a national training programme. That is not the fault of our fire-fighters but of the Government.

This lack of national co-ordination led to the embarrassing situation in April where fire-fighters from Dublin were brought in to deal with a fire on a ship off the Kerry coast. It is the case, however, that the Tralee fire service is fully equipped and has a trained crew to deal with chemical fires. I can only imagine that the decision was less of a calculated insult to the Kerry service than a simple lack of knowledge that the necessary expertise was available.

Another aspect of the unevenness of training is that the Dublin fire service is the only one in which all members are trained paramedics. This training must be extended to all parts of the country. It is mind boggling that fire-fighters throughout the island, with the exception of Dublin, have not had the opportunity to train as paramedics. In most cases where fire-fighters are called to the scene of serious accidents and so forth, such training is of invaluable importance.

There is also the issue of risk assessment, the absence of which at local level could prove to be disastrous in certain circumstances. For example, the Dublin fire service responded to an average of 200 calls per day in 2004. It is a credit to the service that its members were able to respond in such a professional manner to this challenge. However, the demands placed on the service could easily overstretch the available resources. It is vital that an up-to-date risk assessment is carried out so that resources can be tailored to likely demand. At a time when the fire service is in the news, it would be opportune for the Government to commit itself to ensuring that such risk assessments are carried out in every county.

Fire-fighters with whom Sinn Féin has spoken have also expressed dissatisfaction at the amount and condition of service vehicles and other equipment. They particularly stressed the inadequacy of the fire brigade ambulance fleet in Dublin, which they say would be unable to cater for even a small number of major incidents occurring at the same time. We must listen to what they have to say and act upon it. My party has called for an expansion of the fleet and the creation of a single ambulance service in Dublin.

The motion refers to the failure to implement the recommendations of the 2002 review conducted by Farrell Grant Sparks. Why such a review should have been commissioned if it was merely to be allowed gather dust is a mystery. Some of those involved in the service believe it merely confirms the ongoing indifference displayed by the Government towards the service. In the light of recent sad events, it is timely to set about implementing the recommendations of that review as a matter of urgency.

In the course of research for today's debate, I reviewed several press releases I have issued on this matter in recent years. One of these, dated 19 June 2006, reads:

It is clear that without substantial changes, a disaster — where our overstretched fire service is unable to respond adequately, resulting in substantial, and unnecessary loss of life — is not merely likely, it is inevitable. Despite repeated promises, the Government has failed to implement necessary reform.

I further asserted in this statement that the Government must stop prevaricating and ensure that the fire brigade service and its staff are fully supported so that we can have a service to meet our demands.

Sinn Féin believes there is an urgent need for a State-wide co-ordinating body for the 37 local fire authorities in the Twenty-six Counties. There are differences in training, equipment, policy and methodology across the local fire authorities, with approximately 220 fire stations in the Twenty-six Counties. The lack of such a body may explain the lack of emphasis placed by the Government on the fire services in contrast to other emergency services.

While reiterating the necessity of co-ordination between the various fire brigades in this State, my party would also like to see greater co-operation between the fire services on both sides of the Border. As with ambulance and accident and emergency services, such co-operation is a matter of common sense, makes for greater efficiency and, above all, improves the response rate of the emergency services.

The importance of the service provided by fire-fighters cannot be emphasised enough. No words of mine can adequately express the support they give us all. In the aftermath of the supreme sacrifice made by Brian and Mark to provide a vital service to their community, it is of great importance that we listen to the views of fire service staff. A national fire authority must be established and a co-ordinated approach devised to deal with the deficiencies in our service. Fire service staff must receive the resources to which they are entitled, and we all must work collectively to provide them with the support they needs to do their job. We must not act without consulting fire-fighters themselves as it is they who know what is required and who face the dangers every day. Reform can no longer be delayed. If we do not make the necessary changes, we will dishonour the sacrifice made by Brian and Mark.

I propose to share time with the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"—extends again its deepest sympathies to the families of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy whose deaths occurred in such tragic circumstances;

extends its deepest sympathies to Brian and Mark's colleagues in the Wicklow fire service and to all members of the retained fire service countrywide;

acknowledges the courageous service which Brian and Mark gave to the public through their commitment to the Wicklow fire service;

acknowledges the service and dedication of all members of the fire service, both full-time and retained, given to the public across the country;

acknowledges the fact that three investigations are under way by An Garda Síochána, the Health and Safety Authority and Wicklow County Council;

notes the Government's commitment to implementing any necessary change arising from the outcome of the above investigations in the work of supporting and developing fire services;

notes the significant progress made in implementing the key recommendations in the Farrell Grant Sparks report of the Review of Fire Safety and Fire Services in Ireland in relation to fire safety and fire services and, in particular, the programmes advanced to enhance the safety of members of the fire service and the public;

notes that as part of the Government's continuing commitment to investment in, and modernisation of the fire service, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is reviewing the options for continuing the fire service change programme to ensure that Ireland has a world class fire service to meet the needs of the 21st century; and

notes that the options for fire service provision in Bray and its environs are under consideration, including public consultation, by Wicklow County Council and that arrangements for the provision of fire services in all areas of the country are a matter for

the relevant fire authorities, which expend an estimated €240 million per annum in the provision of the service."

I again express my deepest sympathies to the families and friends of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy who tragically lost their lives in the fire in Bray last Wednesday week. My sympathies are also with their fire service colleagues in Bray and throughout the country. I pay tribute to their service to the community and to their professionalism. All who knew Mark and Brian have testified to their commitment to family and community. In debating this issue, we should be sensitive to the grief and pain their families, friends and colleagues are going through during these sad days.

I spoke to some of the crew in the aftermath of the tragedy and have arranged to meet with them again soon. I am also happy to meet the families of Mark and Brian if they wish to do so. I also take this opportunity to remember and pay tribute to fire-fighter Michael Listen and Garda Brian Kelleher, who tragically lost their lives in Foynes earlier this year, and to remember their families and colleagues tonight.

The retained fire service are dedicated people who make themselves available to respond to emergencies in their communities. They are well trained, well equipped and very professional. Members of the fire services, both full-time and retained, do a very difficult job and we owe them a great debt of gratitude. The fire services exist to serve the public and they serve it well.

For our part, we as ordinary citizens are extremely fortunate we have in this country a fire service we can rely on and which never lets us down. The fire service has never shirked its responsibilities and has readily accepted the challenges which constant change presents. These personnel serve their communities faithfully and effectively. They show courage and bravery in facing and dealing with emergency situations. I wish to record my thanks and that of the Government for this selfless public service and acknowledge their pain during this period of loss.

The role of the fire-fighter is much different from what it was 30 years ago. The job now includes dealing with road collisions and numerous types of rescue situations, including water and hazardous material incidents. Fire-fighters are often first on the scene but whatever the incident, their priority remains the same — dealing with human casualties and the protection of human life.

Six years ago, it was recognised by my Department that a major review of our fire services was needed. This review was seen as being necessary to take into account the changing role of our fire-fighters, the increased knowledge and expertise internationally regarding rescue services and the economic and social development that had taken place in Ireland.

The review was carried out by Farrell Grant Sparks, which reported in January 2002. The report, entitled Review of Fire Safety and Fire Services in Ireland, was the starting point for what has become known as the fire services change programme. Among the principal recommendations for change were more focus on fire safety, including the introduction of community fire safety initiatives; the enhancement of fire safety legislation; and better enforcement of both building control regulations and fire safety, including "during performance" inspections.

There was to be the adoption of a new risk-based approach to determining emergency cover; new approaches and structures for major emergency management; the introduction of a competency-based approach to recruitment, retention and career progression; and a competency-based training regime.

In addition, there was to be enhancement of the service through a continued high level of capital investment to improve infrastructure; further development of safety, health and welfare arrangements; better co-ordination of resources between neighbouring local authorities; more flexible deployment of staff at all levels; and the establishment of a national fire and civil protection authority.

The previous Government launched a fire services change and modernisation programme in 2005 to advance the key recommendations of the report regarding fire safety and fire services. The aim of the programme has been to introduce measures aimed at bringing about significant improvement in the safety of people, including fire-fighters and property. It involved developing a programme of key projects in four priority areas identified in the review. These were community fire safety; competency-based approach to recruitment, retention and career progression; enhanced safety, health and welfare; and the development of a risk-based approach to emergency cover.

A status report on the fire services change programme outlining the progress achieved in these four areas was published in June 2007 and is available on my Department's website. The first phase of the programme, which focused initially on the enhancement of fire-fighter health, safety and welfare, has been completed.

Further important programmes to provide the best support and guidance possible to assist fire-fighters in their work have also been developed and are currently being rolled out. These include an updated ancillary safety statement template for the fire service to comply with the most recent 2005 health and safety legislation; a new national incident command system; revised breathing apparatus guidelines and associated training and materials; and a critical incident stress management system to assist fire-fighters in dealing with the aftermath of traumatic and stressful incidents, such as the recent tragedy. Considerable progress has also been made in a number of other key areas and these will be outlined by the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen.

In launching the first phase of the change programme, the previous Government agreed that the priority should be on achieving the widely accepted changes recommended by Farrell Grant Sparks. The programme would provide an opportunity for all stakeholders to show commitment to the necessary change and, depending on the outcomes of the process, the question of how to build the structures necessary to support and embed change on a more permanent basis could be reconsidered.

The establishment of a national fire authority was considered prior to the launch of the change programme and has again been the subject of debate since the Bray tragedy. There are a number of differing views on the merits of a fire authority. As the first part of the change programme has been completed, I am reviewing the progress achieved and I am considering all of the options. The Government must have regard to the needs of the fire service and the greater public interest, and I am determined to consider all aspects in reaching my conclusions.

The provision of a fire service is the statutory responsibility of the local fire authority, in this case Wicklow County Council. The fire authority is required under section 10 of the Fire Services Act 1981 to make provision for the delivery of fire services in its functional area, including the establishment and maintenance of a fire brigade and adequate provision for reception of and response to calls for the assistance of the fire brigade.

The provision of a full-time fire service for Bray has been a matter of public debate for some years now. I am aware that Wicklow County Council's chief fire officer has prepared a report for the local authority on options for fire service provision in Bray. This report was put out for public consultation in Wicklow and is being considered by the local authority.

I take this opportunity to clarify a number of points on fire service provision. Currently, full-time fire brigades operate in larger urban areas, specifically the cities of Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick and Waterford. The number of turnouts where a full-time service exists is in excess of 1,000 a year. The Farrell Grant Sparks report, Review of Fire Safety and Fire Services in Ireland, recommended the development of a risk-based approach to fire cover standards. The report envisaged that this new approach will help identify risk patterns and vulnerable sectors of the community and help local authority management in the determination of cover and allocation of resources.

Under the change programme, the development of a risk-based approach to emergency cover was one of the areas included for advancement. During the process it was changed to a risk-based approach to fire safety management to reflect the need for integration of safety initiatives with emergency response. The procurement process is under way and when the process is completed and a contractor is in place, fire authorities will have assistance to carry out a risk analysis in their functional areas in accordance with the system and to determine the allocation of resources.

There have been calls over the past few days for an independent investigation into the Bray tragedy. Three investigations are under way, carried out by An Garda Síochána, the Health and Safety Authority and Wicklow County Council. I have asked each of the authorities to make the findings of its investigation available to my Department and will consider any necessary change arising from the outcome of these in the work of supporting and developing fire services in my role as Minister. It would be important to await the outcome of the investigations.

In conclusion, it is very difficult to debate these issues in the direct aftermath of such a tragedy. In this regard, I appreciate the measured comments of Deputy McManus. I emphasise that I will listen carefully to any arguments which emerge from the review and investigation process and I will act on the recommendations that emerge. Uppermost in my mind and in the minds of everyone in this Chamber is the health and safety of the men and women in our fire service.

I wish to offer my sincere condolences to the families of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy and to their colleagues and friends in the Bray area. It was clear to those of us who attended their funerals that they were held in the highest esteem. The tragedy of their deaths brought home to all of us the tremendous work fire-fighters do, the risks they take and the level to which communities are dependent on them. I also wish to pay tribute to Michael Liston and Garda Brian Kelleher who were victims of the Foynes tragedy earlier this year.

Local authorities provide fire services and the job of Government is to ensure the legislative framework is sound and to develop and support fire services throughout the country. The Department's fire services capital programme is designed to put in place the infrastructure, including stations and fire appliances, to enable fire-fighters to do a good job and thereby support the local fire authorities in the development and maintenance of a quality firefighting and rescue service. This commitment to and increased investment in the fire service has brought dramatic improvements in the fire service infrastructure nationally. In the past 25 years, almost €240 million has been provided under the fire services capital programme throughout the State for the provision of new and refurbished fire stations and the purchase of fire appliances and other equipment. At this stage, over two thirds of our fire stations, including almost all of the busier stations, have been replaced. In addition, we have a modern fleet of frontline fire appliances and a modern communications system. The local authorities spend some €240 million per year in operating the fire service. There have been massive improvements affecting all areas of the service, including the employment of more staff, the provision of better training and the strengthening of legislation.

There are some 3,400 people working in the fire service. There are over 1,000 full-time fire-fighters in our major cities and over 2,000 retained staff who respond to protect their own communities when needed. We have 170 senior personnel who lead the service. Included in the latter are professional staff who examine all building plans for fire safety and carry out inspections of premises. The work that has been done in this field is phenomenal and great credit is due to those involved.

In commenting in recent days, many people acknowledged the level of professional training our fire-fighters receive and noted the quality of their equipment. Training provided locally is supplemented by the Fire Services Council, which runs an annual programme of training courses and seminars for senior and junior fire officers and for instructors who train the fire service personnel at local level. Under the fire services change programme, a decision was made at the early stages of the competency module to link the fire services to the National Qualifications Authority and the Department has engaged with the Further Education and Training Awards Council, FETAC, in this regard.

The principal job of the fire services is about protecting people, infrastructure, property and the environment from the threat of fire. A number of measures have been taken in recent years to increase public safety and, consequently, reduce the risk to fire-fighters. Building regulations have been in place since 1992. This means that, during the construction boom, the design of all buildings other than private houses being built or modified must have undergone the fire safety certification process. Since 1998, all new houses must have mains operated smoke alarms.

The Minister has already stated that a series of initiatives have been developed under the community fire safety programme, including a smoke alarm campaign and the primary schools programme. From research, we know that there are in excess 300,000 homes in this country which do not have smoke alarms. This figure does not include households which have alarms that are not working. There are families that would not go to bed at night without locking their doors. They would, however, do so without having working smoke alarms in place. This is all the more surprising and worrying when one considers that it takes fewer than three minutes for someone to die of smoke inhalation. The Department, with the assistance of the local authorities, is trying to target some of these vulnerable sectors. The other sectors must be targeted through increasing awareness. In that regard, I pay tribute to the voluntary and community sector for assisting the Department and local authorities in targeting people who might otherwise not be targeted as regards the use of smoke alarms.

The functions of the National Safety Council relating to the promotion of fire safety at a national level were returned to the Department in September of last year. Since then, the Department has developed its own suite of fire safety promotion literature which is available from its website, local authorities and health centres throughout the country. The Department also runs its own media campaign, which commences with national fire safety week. The Bray tragedy occurred on the eve of national fire safety week, which was due to commence on 1 October 2007. As a mark of respect to Brian Murray and Mark O' Shaughnessy, the Department's campaigns were postponed until after the funerals. The Department's TV and radio advertising campaign was postponed until last night. This campaign will run on all TV and radio stations until the end of the year. It is hugely important in the context of bringing home to people the message that each of us has an individual responsibility to ensure that every provision relating to fire safety is in place in our own homes and at our business premises.

A separate review of the major emergency management field resulted in the development of a new major emergency management framework in 2005 and the initiation of the major emergency development programme 2006-08. This process has gone well beyond the Farrell Grant Sparks recommendation in this regard. The fire service will play a key role in developing this programme and will ultimately be central to its roll-out and implementation.

Major emergency management is a key challenge and a priority issue for the Government. The roll-out of the new framework will bring Ireland into line with international trends in this area. The purpose of the new framework is to put in place new arrangements that will enable the three principal response agencies — local authorities, An Garda Síochána and the Health Service Executive — to prepare for and make a co-ordinated response to major emergencies. The framework is the foundation for the development of a new generation of major emergency plans by the principal response agencies. It sets out the mechanisms for co-ordination at all levels of major emergency management — on site, local level and regional level, with links to national level major emergency management architecture when required. I acknowledge the place of local authority fire services in major emergency management over the years and the work of city and county managers and senior fire officers in the development process.

The major emergency development programme 2006-08 is currently being rolled out to implement the provisions of the framework. It is the objective to have the process, including exercises and testing of the new updated plans, completed by autumn 2008.

On the one hand, this indicates that substantial work is under way but that this is somewhat short of completion. An important element of our knowledge in this area undoubtedly relates to the 2007 review of the fire services change programme, to which the Minister earlier referred. In the context of Bray and other tragedies, it is important to bear in mind the provisions of the Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Act 2005, which I steered through the Oireachtas some time ago and with which Members on all sides engaged at a level not frequently seen as regards legislation of that kind. I have no doubt that HSA investigation will be independent and well-resourced and will prove hugely important regarding the kind of outcomes people expect and the concerns that have been expressed by earlier speakers and others who have made their views known in this regard.

It is also important to bear in mind that all the key stakeholders in the fire service are participating positively in the fire services change programme and have bought into it to a great degree. Great credit is due to people for facing up to the changes required. In some instances, these changes impact negatively on people's lifestyles and require a level of investment of time that not everyone would be prepared to make.

As already stated, the major emergency framework is hugely important and the fire service will have the key role in respect of its roll-out and implementation. I was interested in the point made by Deputy Ferris regarding the fact the Dublin fire service responded to over 200 calls per day in 2004. While, as the Deputy correctly states, this highlights the enormous job undertaken by fire-fighters on behalf of everyone in the community, it also indicates that the vast majority of the 200 calls per day relating to fire incidents could be prevented if we could put across the message relating to prevention as effectively as possible.

When I was appointed to the Department and looked at this area, I was shocked to find that approximately 300,000 homes are without a smoke alarm. At the first fire services event I attended, I was even more shocked when I was shown a video of two fires which had occurred in Ennis in my own area. In the case of one of the fires, a working smoke alarm prevented not just loss of life but minimised damage to such an extent that one would barely know that a fire had been responded to and dealt with. In the other case, a non-working fire alarm was clearly visible on a worktop in the kitchen with a battery left alongside it that one presumes was out of action and in the process of being replaced sometime. That brings to mind all the other houses, in addition to the 300,000 to which I referred, whose owners realised it was important to have a fire alarm but whose alarms were not operational because the batteries were not replaced or some difficulty was not addressed. That is a great concern to anybody who looks at the kind of dangers fire-fighters are exposed to going about their work. The more of us who, as citizens, fail to deliver on our duty to take preventive measures, the more people working in the fire service we put in danger.

The 2005 fire services change programme is being driven by a high-level implementation group to implement the main fire service and fire safety recommendations of the Farrell Grant Sparks report. The view was taken initially that it was more important and a priority under the change programme to use available resources to bring about direct improvements. It is true that the proposals for institutional change were not made a priority at that time. As the Minister has said, he intends looking very carefully at all aspects of the fire service programme arising from this tragic incident and also on foot of the report that will undoubtedly be made available to the Department when the three investigations have been completed. It is important that this is done.

However, it was sound judgment initially to bring about direct improvements to areas that were immediately to the fore. When the programme was launched, it advanced the key fire safety and fire services recommendations in four priority areas. These areas were as follows: the enhanced safety and welfare of fire-fighters; community fire safety; a competency-based approach to recruitment, retention and career progression; and the development of a risk-based approach to emergency cover. These are all very important areas.

A number of project structures involving all the stakeholders were put in place to advance the programme. The first phase of the programme has just been completed. It focused on the enhancement of safety, health and welfare. This mostly resulted from the provisions of the 2005 Act, to which I previously referred and which the Leas-Cheann Comhairle played a very active and important role in seeing through the Houses of the Oireachtas. An updated ancillary safety statement template for the fire service to comply with that legislation was put in place. Other measures put in place included: a new national incident command system; revised breathing apparatus guidelines, associated training and training materials; and a critical incident stress management system to assist fire-fighters in dealing with the aftermath of traumatic and stressful incidents.

The incident in Bray last week was undoubtedly the most traumatic and stressful incident that anybody in any line of work could be subjected to and an appalling situation for the colleagues of the two victims, Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy. However, we must also remember that, on a daily basis, our fire-fighters are called out to road traffic accidents and fires involving fatalities and deal with extremely difficult, trying and stressful situations. All of us on all sides of the House would agree that every provision that can be put in place to help them do that job effectively and safely without any negative impact on their own health and well-being should be put in place. Whatever technical disagreement there might be among us in the House in respect of how this motion is dealt with, I have no doubt that, across all political parties and among all of us involved in this area, there is a willingness to move forward and address whatever shortcomings there may be. We would all also acknowledge that considerable progress has been made and that in delivering that progress, we should not forget that chief fire officers and county managers, but particularly fire-fighting personnel, have played a key role.

As I have said, considerable progress has been made under key areas, including a series of initiatives in the community fire safety area. Key among them is the installation of smoke alarms in the homes of vulnerable and elderly persons. We sometimes forget the tremendous role that the community and voluntary sector plays, very directly in the current campaign, in helping to target elderly and vulnerable people who do not have fire alarms and might not be aware that a scheme is in place. Besides making the applications, the community and voluntary sector frequently helps in the provision and installation of the alarms. It is very important that we pay tribute to it.

In respect of the programme targeted at third class, I pay tribute to all those firemen who have gone out to schools throughout the country. I know that last year, every primary school in County Clare was visited and every third class pupil was visited by people from the fire brigade. They make a significant impact. Last week, I visited the school in which I taught for a number of years. Two fire-fighters were there speaking to third class pupils. Of course, in a small country school, it was not just third class pupils who were affected. Everybody in the school was eager to see the firemen and what they were doing. The message went home very strongly to parents in that community, as it did in every other community where the third class was visited, that we all have a responsibility in respect of our property to make provisions that are extraordinary inexpensive and readily available. There are so many outlets where one can pick up a smoke alarm. It is so easy to install and the battery lasts so long that none of us has any excuse for putting our families' lives or our property in danger, and just as little excuse for putting the lives of very brave fire-fighters in danger.

The Government is committed to continuing to implement the necessary changes to ensure that we have a world-class fire service. Progress under the programme can be viewed in conjunction with the following: strengthened fire safety legislation of 2003, the major emergency development programme approved by Government arising from the review of the framework for major emergency management commissioned in 2004, the success of the capital investment programme which is very visible in all of the local refurbished and new fire stations throughout the country and the quality of the equipment which is on a par with best international standards, very importantly, the provision of relevant training to fire authorities supplemented by the central training programmes provided by the Fire Services Council and the strengthening of the management structure in local authorities, all of which have been done over a period of time to try to ensure we have the very best provision in terms of our capability to address fires and trying to ensure the safety of the very brave people who deliver that service to us.

Ultimately, this is a very big picture and programme and an area where it would be very wrong to point to one particular group and lay all the responsibility for delivering a better service on it. There is no doubt that the Government has a key role to play in terms of the provision of legislation, providing the necessary framework and ensuring the finances are provided. Equally, local authorities have their own responsibility for the delivery of services in a very direct way. It is incumbent on all of us, particularly in the wake of these appalling tragedies, in memory of the two brave men and as a mark of respect to their families, to ensure that every effort is made to deliver the highest quality of service for the people of the country.

I wish to share time with Deputies Doyle, Enright and Breen.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Fine Gael will be supporting the Labour Party motion in respect of this very important issue. I am disappointed the Government has not seen fit to agree with the Opposition on a Private Members' motion for the second week running. Tonight's important motion comes in the wake of a difficult tragedy in Bray. It highlights, nonetheless, neglected issues in the emergency services over the years which have been articulated both by Members and the public.

I extend my sympathies to the families of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy. They have brought to national attention the deficiencies in one of our essential emergency services. One difficulty faced by the Government is that the emergency services are in rag order. Whether it is health or the fire services, we cannot always depend on everything working as it should. The Opposition, in a constructive manner, is trying to establish principles and good practice to ensure the recent tragedy in Bray does not happen again.

This issue goes back to 2001 when the then Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, recognised rightly there were problems in the co-ordination of emergency services. He asked an expert group to examine how best services could be deployed in the fire and emergency services. Farrell Grant Sparks was commissioned to report on the matter. However, like so many reports commissioned by the Government, it had to be dusted down in recent days to see what was in it. That is not good enough.

A high level group and four committees were established to evaluate the competencies regarding the delivery of the fire and emergency services and the risks in each fire authority. The recommendations of the risk-based committee achieved nothing, which crystallised itself in the recent events in Bray. Arising from the appalling tragedy in Bray, there will be separate Garda, departmental and Health and Safety Authority investigations. We can have all the investigations we like but do we learn lessons from them? Sadly, based on the failure to implement the key recommendations of the Farrell Grant Sparks report, I will not hold my breath for the implementation of the new reports' recommendations.

What is needed is an independent authority that will transcend local authority boundaries and will ensure people can rely on a fire service that will minimise risk. The Fire Acts allow for cross-boundary treatment of fires. In the case of the recent Bray fire, the full-time fire service of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown could have been called upon. In spite of what the Taoiseach said, there is a difference between part-time and full-time services. People in a part-time service must leave their place of work to attend a fire scene. The Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown service, a full-time one, was eight minutes from the recent Bray fire. Why was it not called upon? This is one of many questions to which people want answers.

It is not good enough for the Minister to throw everything back on the local authorities. It is a requirement of the House to act on deficiencies in services. I call on the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, to ensure recommendations from the Farrell Grant Sparks report are implemented. We do not need any more reports. The existing reports must be implemented.

The Government amendment to the motion shows it is not committed to realise these objectives. The core recommendation of the Farrell Grant Sparks report stated:

A new authority at national level which will provide stronger national leadership, put in place a more integrated and coherent structure at the centre and which will lead, develop, implement and manage the performance of a new regime aimed at delivering better results.

The report also stated such an authority would establish these "new arrangements at local authority level which will integrate existing fire authorities and building control authorities into a unified structure". This is the only way in which "a more focused and enhanced emphasis on prevention and mitigation as well as on operational emergency response capability".

The Government must rethink these issues between now and the end of this debate. The House can be united on this motion, in the memory of the recently deceased firefighters in Bray. Doing so would allow us to be in a position to tell their families and those who work part time and full time in the service that there is a new policy position that will ensure confidence in our fire services.

I wish to acknowledge the presence in the Visitors Gallery of family members and colleagues of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy. The timing of the motion is appropriate, given that the deceased firemen's families are determined some good will come from this tragedy. We must do our job as legislators without it becoming a political slagging match.

The Farrell Grant Sparks report is five and a half years old. The tone of the language used in the report struck me. It stated, "Our primary recommendation is that a new national authority for fire and civil protection/emergency services be established". It continued: "We believe strongly that a single unified structure under the new authority is the optimum means of achieving coherent national leadership and development for the fire safety and fire services regime".

To his credit, the then Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Noel Dempsey, put in place a structure which would have seen such a model rolled out over six months. Five and a half years on, we still have 37 fire authorities and 222 fire stations. Northern Ireland has a single fire and rescue service, divided into regional, area and district command centres. For its own reasons Northern Ireland has developed an expertise in this area but the least we can do is examine it as a possible model which would have merit here.

I acknowledge that many recommendations of the Farrell Grant Sparks report have been implemented. However, I do not believe adequate resources are provided to the fire services. Any rescue service that must analyse costs in dispatching a team is simply not working right. People in the services will claim this attitude pertains. Last week, the House debated how the recruitment embargo in the health services has affected recruitment of ambulance service personnel, despite the claim frontline services would not be affected.

I welcome the Minister's willingness to examine aspects of the services and the establishment of an authority. The report, however, claimed its primary recommendation was the establishment of this authority. In itself it will not achieve anything other than a national protocol or command system. In the context of the sentiments in his speech I ask the Minister to look at it. The amendment tabled by the Government, in particular the last part of it, puts the responsibility in its entirety back on the local authorities and is completely at odds with the Minister's statement. It ignores the Farrell Grant Sparks key recommendation and at the minimum it should be discounted. We need a completely independent investigation into this whole tragedy and the circumstances surrounding it, with the right to make recommendations that will be acted upon. As Deputy Hogan said, we have had key reports before, they were cherry-picked when it suited and key recommendations have not been implemented because it did not suit.

Unfortunately, I heard the phrase used last week in an interview with a former Minister to the effect that these were quangos. When we want to put a question down to a quango such as the National Road Safety Authority, the Energy Regulator etc., we are told it is inappropriate for this House, since these are statutory organisations in their own right. A national fire authority would have a similar mandate, to put in place the proper procedures and protocols for a world-class fire service, as outlined by the Government.

I ask the Minister, once again, to support the motion tabled by the Labour Party. I ask him again to reconsider the amendments tabled which render all the rhetoric as a joke.

Like all speakers tonight, I extend my sympathy to the families of Brian Murray and Mark O'Shaughnessy on their recent tragic deaths. These deaths have brought back to the forefront issues that should have been long since resolved.

I thank the Minister, Deputy Gormley, for his speech but he has not outlined adequately the reasons the Farrell Grant Sparks report has not been fully implemented to date. He said the last Government, in 2005, launched a programme to advance the key recommendations of the report. However, as far back as Deputy Martin Cullen's time as Minister, he promised he would implement the report. The Taoiseach, in a letter to the fire chiefs in 2002 said that Fianna Fáil believed that the report's recommendations must be implemented without cherry-picking. Sadly, it is clear that since that letter five years ago, there has been a substantial cherry-picking of recommendations. I have been told that while some of the relatively easy recommendations have been implemented, the tougher, more costly ones, were not. That is a serious point that needs to be teased out.

I am sure the Minister is aware that one of the report's authors, Mr. Tom Murray, said that the key on which the report turned was the setting up of a national fire authority. I very much support him in this and indeed the motion tabled here tonight by the Labour Party in that regard. He said that to progress with other recommendations without this was to deal only with the symptoms rather than the main deficiencies which were institutional and structural.

Treating symptoms is just dealing with the tip of the iceberg. The root of the problem must be tackled and we need to look at reality in this regard. All experts in the area, including fire chiefs, seem to agree on some of these points. Effectively, at national level we have no standards, monitoring or compliance checking. The system being operated is outdated compared to that in many countries in Europe and around the world. Regardless of such comparisons, it is outdated in any event. We do not even have a clear mechanism for assessing risk right across the fire service. Despite the clear recommendations in the Farrell Grant Sparks report, fire cover standards still operate on an area-based regime linked to speed of response rather than to risk associated to area.

The Bray tragedy has again thrown up the issue of full-time versus part-time or retained fire services. The sad reality is that I cannot properly comment on this and, with the greatest respect, neither can the Minister. Because we do not have a national fire authority we cannot assess what should be in place in Bray or indeed other towns around the country. In some respects that provides a comfort blanket for the Government, which it can hide behind. However, the ultimate responsibility for the fact that we do not know lies with Government. Had a national fire authority been in place, at least we would have been aware of the standards which we needed to live up to and what each local authority must provide. There is no comfort blanket for fire-fighters as the people who risk their lives in providing a service without proper standards being in place.

Unfortunately many other towns such as Bray are in the same position. I have done some checking on facts and figures and Tullamore has almost the same number of calls as Bray per annum and also operates on a retained service. If a national fire authority was in place there would be clear criteria.

I wonder to what degree the Minister has examined the options. Has he thought of day-manning some of the stations? It is obviously difficult to get fire-fighters during the day, especially given the criteria that they need to live and work within a relatively short distance from the stations. Then there is the issue of traffic problems and access to stations. However, there are options such as having full-time crews in some areas during the day and a retained service at night. I am not suggesting that this is what is needed in Bray or Tullamore. Again, I do not have the expertise and there is no national authority to assess this. There are difficulties as regards rural regions as well as built-up urban areas. Some fire authorities find it difficult to recruit part-time fire fighters in rural areas, again because so many people travel to urban areas to work. While the number of call-outs might be relatively small in rural areas, fire-fighters must be available all the time and that presents problems.

The pace of Government roll-out facilities is still poor. I welcome the fact that towns such as Birr and Edenderry in my constituency have new fire stations. Birr waited nearly 20 years for it to happen, but other places, too, have problems. Ferbane fire station is very antiquated and in desperate need of replacement. It is a place of crucial geographical importance, serving the N62 west Offaly power region, Bord na Móna and the whole peat area. Clara also awaits the provision of a new fire station.

I will return to the point Deputy Doyle referred to regarding the Minister's speech and throwing responsibility back on the local authorities. I wrote to the Minister in July about Clara, following receipt of a report I had sought from Offaly County Council. The council report informed me that the plans had been lodged in the Department for a number of years. I knew that and wrote to the Minister to find out how matters were progressing. The response was similar to that which I get from the Minister for Health and Children when I table questions about the HSE. I specifically asked whether the Minister could look into the matter of the proposed plans and what stage they were at in the Department. He wrote back to tell me it was a matter for Offaly County Council. We could write to each other for another ten years on this and go around in the same circle. Offaly County Council does not and will not have the funding to build a fire station either in Ferbane or Clara. The Minister knows the money comes from his Department. It is important when we raise these genuine queries on very important issues on behalf of people living in these areas that we get answers telling us, in effect, that the Minister is looking at the plan and at what stage it is at, rather than referring us back to the local authority which will not write the cheque to provide the service. The provision of funding for stations for equipment comes from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and that is the reality.

The Act outlines the role of local authorities in terms of providing services, but the nuts and bolts of such provision must come from the Department. I thank and congratulate all members of the fire service for the fantastic work they do in extremely difficult circumstances. I ask the Minister, in the light of the work they do for what is a small return, to reconsider the Government's amendment and support the Labour Party's motion.

Debate adjourned.
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