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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Nov 2007

Vol. 641 No. 2

Priority Questions.

Army Equitation School.

Jimmy Deenihan

Question:

1 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence the plans he has to improve the quality of horses available to the Irish Army equestrian school for international competition purposes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27975/07]

The mission of the Army Equitation School, as assigned to it on its establishment in 1926, is to promote the Irish horse abroad through participation in international competitions. The school has discharged this task with considerable distinction down through the years and, through its participation and numerous successes in equitation events at home and abroad, it has successfully promoted the qualities of the Irish horse.

The Army Equitation School has in place a horse purchase board consisting of the officer commanding the equitation school, an official from the Department of Defence, the second officer commanding the equitation school and Colonel E. V. Campion (Rtd.). The equitation school actively encourages breeders and producers who feel they have a suitable horse to contact the school to arrange for inspection and assessment with a view to purchase or lease.

In 2004 the Army Equitation School had 14 international wins at competitions throughout Europe, with 13 international wins in 2005 and a further ten in 2006, including wins at Barcelona, Athens, Copenhagen and Zagreb. The Army Equitation School has had considerable success in 2007, notably Commandant Gerry Flynn's wins on Mo Chroí in the Dublin Grand Prix, the Lisbon Grand Prix, the Drammen Grand Prix and the Vimeiro Grand Prix. Captain Shane Carey holds this year's record for selection on the greatest number of Nations Cup teams and during 2007 he attended eight Nations Cup shows in total. It has recently been announced that Ireland's show jumping team will be promoted to the elite Samsung Super League in 2008, which is reserved for the best eight teams in the world. It has been recognised that Commandant Flynn's and Captain Carey's significant achievements in 2007 have assisted the Irish team in gaining re-entry to this league. Moreover, the success of the school over recent years is testament to the quality of the riders and the horses at the school.

The Army Equitation School continues to source high quality horses for competition at home and abroad and the Minister intends to ensure that sufficient numbers of good quality horses will continue to be acquired by the school in order to maintain the proud tradition of that establishment.

In my experience, and having been a Minister of State, Question Time is not the same without the Minister. That is no reflection on the Minister of State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Tom Kitt. This has happened before and I hope the Minister, in future, ensures Question Time is treated as a priority.

The Minister is abroad on business.

I appreciate that but during the year there are four Question Times for defence matters and it is important the Minister attends. It is not fair to send a Minister of State for what may concern serious Government policy decisions.

I welcome the Minister of State's reply. The funding available to the Army Equitation School to purchase or lease horses is €300,000 and it can also acquire horses through patronage. I am sure the Minister of State would agree that this figure is entirely insufficient. He outlined the successes of the equitation school but I would go further and say all our great show jumping victories in the past have involved the Army Equitation School and its great riders. If it was resourced properly and allocated a bigger budget it could buy more and better horses. Are there any plans to increase the budget for the purchase or lease of horses? I remind the Minister of State that we are the only country in the world to have an Army Equitation School that competes at such a high level throughout the world. For that reason the school is very precious and very special. Its situation, adjacent to the Phoenix Park, would present additional opportunities if it had more and better-bred horses.

I agree with the Deputy that the quality of the horses is a very important issue. The mission of the school requires the acquisition solely of Irish competition horses. The school has always been able to acquire any horse deemed, after viewing and a veterinary examination, to be of sufficient quality to merit inclusion in the school. On a number of occasions, after viewing or examination or both, horses were deemed not to be of sufficient quality. The focus of the school is on the quality of the horses.

The Deputy made reference to the figure involved. He is correct that, in 2006, a sum of €300,000 was allocated for horse purchasing and leasing but the final expenditure at year's end totalled €442,000. The Department will not be found wanting in this regard, subject to various issues that may arise. This year €322,000 was allocated for purchasing and leasing. The key point is the quality of horses that become available. I am instancing what happened on the last occasion. A total of 50% more was spent than was allocated.

My question also dealt with the issue of breeding. Many of our best blood lines have been exported and bought by other countries with the result that people are buying horses back from other countries. Most of the horses competing for Ireland in the last Olympic Games were bred abroad.

The Department, together with the new Horse Board Ireland, should develop a new breeding policy to encourage breeding of the right type of horse for international competitions. It is obvious that the best type of showjumping horse is the three-quarter blooded animal as most competitions are decided on time, against the clock. The blood horse is a more athletic animal compared to the traditional draught horse. Has the Minister of State any notes on how the breeding problem is to be addressed? Is it proposed to set up a national centre for breeding showjumpers? This is an area in which our breeding has been diluted in the past by failing to concentrate on the right type of animal for competition.

I suggest more dialogue and co-operation between the breeder, the international rider and the equitation school.

The Minister of State should reply in writing to the Deputy.

The House was late resuming by five minutes.

It has nothing to do with the starting time.

I will answer briefly. I acknowledge the Deputy's point on breeding. It is important that the Ministers for Defence, Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and other Ministers liaise on this issue. The Army Equitation School has a total of 44 horses and there is a strong emphasis on the quality of horse. I will convey the Deputy's valid point to my ministerial colleagues.

Overseas Missions.

Brian O'Shea

Question:

2 Deputy Brian O’Shea asked the Minister for Defence the role the operations commander of the proposed EU military operation in the Republic of Chad and the Central African Republic will have in the matter of the protection of civilians, particularly refugees in regard to human trafficking; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27834/07]

On 25 September 2007, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 1778 establishing a multidimensional UN mission in Chad and in the Central African Republic, CAR, that will help strengthen security in the region.

Resolution 1778 (2007) decided that the multidimensional presence would consist of (i) a new United Nations mission in Chad and in the Central African Republic, to be known as MINURCAT, with a mandate focusing on the security and protection of civilians, particularly refugees, internally displaced persons, IDPs, and civilians in danger, and on human rights and the rule of law in eastern Chad and north-eastern CAR and (ii) troops deployed by the European Union with a robust authorisation to protect and support it. In its decision of 15 October 2007, the Council of the European Union agreed a joint action to launch the ESDP mission in support of the UN operation in Chad and in the Central African Republic.

More than 170,000 displaced Chadians and 236,000 Sudanese refugees live in camps in eastern Chad. These people have fled from Janjaweed attacks, widespread banditry and criminality and clashes between rebel and Government forces on both sides of the porous Chad-Sudan border. I visited Darfur in 2004 and saw for myself the great suffering being endured by the many Sudanese people in the Darfur region.

The operation on which the EU is engaged is designed to provide for the creation of a safe and secure area for refugees and internally displaced persons and to allow for the distribution of humanitarian aid. The nature of the operation is fully in accordance with Ireland's traditional policy of support for and participation in peace support operations, our close engagement in Africa and our support for the United Nations, which has authorised the proposed deployment of the peacekeeping troops.

The UN element of this operation is targeted primarily at supporting the civil administration in Chad and the Central African Republic to protect refugees and camps with the support of a UN police element and liaison officers.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

Ireland was asked to provide the operational commander for the EU mission. In its decisions of 2 October 2007 and 23 October 2007, the Government decided to deploy Lieutenant General Pat Nash as operational headquarters commander of the EU force on this mission, together with up to 11 additional personnel to the headquarters of the operation. Dáil Éireann approved the deployment of Lieutenant General Nash and his personal support staff on 9 October 2007. The operational commander has been appointed by the European Union in the joint action and is responsible for the planning and, when directed, execution of the mission.

Lieutenant General Nash took up his appointment last month and is based at the operation headquarters in Mont Valérien, Paris. He has assumed immediate leadership in the planning and launch of the operation. The role of the operation commander is to manage and co-ordinate the overall military operation and to provide the military link between the operation and MINURCAT, the EU and the UN. The EU is planning to launch this operation as a matter of urgency. The intention is to have an initial operational capability on the ground next month with the operation fully functional in January-February 2008.

The mission of the EUFOR TCHAD-RCA is to contribute to establishing a safe and secure environment in the area of operation, in order to protect civilians in danger, facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid and the free movement of humanitarian personnel through improved security, protect UN and associated personnel and encourage the return of internally displaced persons.

The Minister of State has exceeded his time allowed of two minutes. The remainder of the reply will be put into the record of the House.

The Ceann Comhairle is much more flexible.

Six minutes is allowed for each Priority Question. The Minister has two initial minutes and there are four minutes allowed for all the supplementary questions.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. The fact that he has been to Darfur gives him a particular insight into this area.

The reason for my question is the recent reports of attempts being made to take 103 African children, so-called orphans, out of Chad, to be either fostered or perhaps adopted. It is a cause for concern that these children referred to belonging to a family. A total of 91 children referred to at least one parent in the family. The group consisted of 21 girls and 81 boys between the ages of one and ten. When the situation of child sex abuse and paedophilia is taken into account, this must be a matter of great concern.

I presume the Minister of State will reassure the House that with the Irish involvement in MINURCAT and the fact that the commanding officer is Irish, this area will be given a strong focus.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I can answer with a definite yes. We are all honoured that the operational commander is Lieutenant General Pat Nash, who is known to many of us in the House. He is an excellent Army officer.

I concur completely with the Deputy that the issue of trafficking of young people is regarded by the Government as one of paramount importance.

With regard to the MINURCAT mission and as I saw on my recent visit to Kosova, Ireland has an excellent record in working with communities and building trust. On the specific issue of the children, dealing with criminality and trafficking is primarily the responsibility of the Chadean Government. However, the EU operation in Chad and in CAR is designed to provide for the creation of safe and secure areas for refugees and internally displaced persons and to allow for the distribution of humanitarian aid. Implicit in this role for the EU mission within its area of operation and its mandate will be to intervene if such issues come to its attention. In the event of Ireland becoming involved, which I hope will be the case, we will need to note these concerns.

Is this one of the issues to be addressed by the reconnaissance mission? Will there be a report on this matter? Will any information about serious issues be made available to the House before a final commitment of participation in MINURCAT is made?

This will definitely be the case. We will be dealing with this issue in another question. I will be happy to deal with all issues relating to Chad. The reconnaissance mission is taking place and it will make a report. The Government is required to seek the approval of the Dáil for participation in this mission. I hope this will be the case but much work remains to be done. This could not be described as a safe mission and there are many issues to be considered by the reconnaissance mission. The House will be fully informed before its ultimate decision.

Jimmy Deenihan

Question:

3 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence the projected cost of the Irish participation in the forthcoming EU mission to Chad and in particular the projected cost of the air transport element of the mission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27976/07]

I have already provided the background information on this mission in my response to Question No. 2.

As the planning for the mission is currently ongoing, I am not in a position at this stage to provide detailed projected costs of possible Defence Forces participation in the EU operation. However, I can confirm that the costs will be significant. Given the isolation of the mission area and difficulty with the land routes — CHAD is landlocked and nearly 2,000 km from the nearest port facility — the deployment and sustainment of the operation will have to be mainly by air. In addition, the provision of suitably equipped sites, provision of airstrip etc., will be required. More information on the associated costs of participation in the mission will be available when the report of the reconnaissance mission is provided to the Minister for Defence. The Government will be advised accordingly when the formal decision on participation in the force is presented for consideration.

The financing of the operation will be dealt with in the context of the Estimates process, which is ongoing. All EU member states, irrespective of participation, will contribute to the common costs of the operation, unless they specifically opt out of doing so at Council. Common costs are payable, in accordance with EU Council Decision of 17 June 2002, through the ATHENA mechanism, which is responsible at EU level for the collection of member states contributions and disbursement of monies received in respect of operational common costs. Each troop contributing nation also meets its own nation borne costs while direct operational costs for members contributing personnel are met on a "costs lie where they fall" basis.

In the event that it is ultimately decided to participate with 350 to 400 troops in the mission, the combination of common costs and nation borne costs may make this the most expensive mission ever undertaken by the Defence Forces. I mentioned that earlier.

The Minister expects to bring proposals to Government shortly and, subject to the approval of the Government, to put the matter before Dáil Éireann before the end of November. Obviously, any decision to participate will be subject to the approval of Dáil Éireann in accordance with the Defence Acts.

I understand it is expected that the mission will cost approximately €60 million. Will the Minister of State confirm that this €60 million will not be taken out of mainstream funding for the Defence Forces? At present, there is major pressure on different elements of the Defence Forces for ongoing funding. Certainly the Defence Forces are not robust enough to make €60 million available at this time. Will the Minister of State confirm that provision will be made in the Estimates?

I asked also about the transport element of the mission to which the Minister of State did not refer in his response. Has any costing been made of the transport element of the particular mission? May I ask a question I put to the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, four or five weeks ago? Is it time to consider purchasing our own aircraft in order that we can have our own air transport capability? If this is not possible within the Defence budget perhaps we could look at our overseas aid budget so that it could be used by the Department of Defence, operated by the Air Corps, and for humanitarian purposes also. Will the Minister of State agree that our transport capability would help considerably in humanitarian cases of moving Irish aid?

The two questions are as follows. Will provision for the mission be made in the Estimates? Given the cost of leasing aircraft, would it be a good idea to consider purchasing our own aircraft?

I will take the questions in reverse order. On the issue of the aircraft, I understand that as part of the background planning for potential participation in the mission the Defence Forces are examining a range of strategic lift options for the deployment of Defence Forces personnel and their sustainment in the region. It is difficult terrain, as the Deputy will appreciate. The Defence Forces have standby arrangements in place in this regard, mainly involving commercial suppliers. Obviously discussions are ongoing with our EU partners. There are no plans to acquire large long-range transport aircraft for the Defence Forces. The costs involved, relative to the expected level of utilisation, would not justify the procurement of such an aircraft. That is the position of the Government on that matter. It will be expensive.

On the matter of costs, this whole issue is being dealt with as part of the Estimates process. The report of the reconnaissance mission and more information on equipment requirements, logistical support and transport costs is expected to be provided for the Minister for Defence in the coming weeks. The Government will be advised accordingly when the formal decision on participation in the force is presented for consideration later this month. The specific answer to the Deputy's question is that we do not have a figure for costs. We are still awaiting the evaluation. The House will be told about this specifically and will then decide on it — I hope we do. When going in there we will ensure the troops are well equipped and that every possible care and attention is taken with regard to their safety.

Will the Minister of State examine the feasibility of having our own transport capability? While he said it would not be economical to have our own transport capability, I understand the Minister of State with responsibility for overseas aid, Deputy Conor Lenihan, is receptive to this idea. Certainly senior members in the Army are receptive to the idea of small transport planes that could be used for military and humanitarian purposes. Apparently there is a very strong case for that capability. Will the Minister of State ask the Minister to look at the issue seriously?

I will respond clearly as I would to any suggestion made in the House. I visited about 23 countries in Africa as Minister for overseas development on two occasions and my experience is that the Department of Foreign Affairs has used small aircraft in different situations in supporting the NGO effort. On the Defence side there are other supports through the UN. In Liberia I used some of the helicopters which were being used by the UN there. Of course I will be glad to pursue the suggestion the Deputy made. My gut feeling is that in analysing the costs it is better to use whatever commercial aircraft we can. We have a particular contribution to make with regard to our personnel. I have seen it in many places, such as Liberia and Kosovo. I have no doubt the same will happen here. We have to concentrate on what we are good at. Should we get a large aircraft? Is it cost effective? My feeling is that it would not be, but we can certainly make contributions elsewhere. The Deputy asked me to re-examine the matter and I will be happy to do that. This issue has been raised with the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister of State with responsibility for overseas development.

Defence Forces Allowances.

Jimmy Deenihan

Question:

4 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if agreement has been reached under the C and A scheme for an increase in overseas allowances for the Defences Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27977/07]

A claim for an increase in overseas allowance was received from the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force. The claim has been the subject of correspondence between the Department and the representative associations. The Deputy will appreciate that as discussions under the conciliation and arbitration scheme are confidential to the parties involved it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this time other than to say that the claim will have to meet the terms of the social partnership agreement, Towards 2016.

I remind the Minister of State that his senior colleague made a commitment at the PDFORRA conference of 2006 that if PDFORRA made a case for an increase in allowances he would receive it very favourably. The understanding at the time was that an increase of 10% to 15% would be requested, but I understand that what is on offer is just 5%. The overseas allowance ranges from €74 to €80. In essence, for the lower paid this will mean an increase of €3.72 per day and for the higher paid €4 per day. Surely that is not a great incentive. They are not doing it for the money but they want their service valued.

The Government will soon be recruiting for Chad which will be a very dangerous mission. An article in today's edition of The Irish Times pointed out that this will be the most dangerous mission since the Congo. Surely these people should be properly paid and should receive the proper incentives. Will the Minister of State expand on what he has said? Will serious consideration be given to increasing the allowance to between 10% and 15%?

I have no doubt whatsoever about the contribution made by our peacekeepers abroad. There is no harm in reiterating time and again the tremendous work they do throughout the world in very dangerous situations. I start on that basis and totally concur with the Deputy.

In his address to the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association annual delegate conference in 2006 the Minister for Defence invited the association to submit a claim for an increase in overseas allowance. A claim for an increase in the allowance from PDFORRA and RACO was subsequently received and, as I said in my reply, is being dealt with under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force. I again acknowledge the work they do abroad — we all value their work. However, whether an overseas allowance is warranted is a matter to be determined through the conciliation and arbitration process, subject to the requirements of the current national wage agreement. There is a process through which this claim must be addressed. I cannot go beyond that. The discussions in the conciliation and arbitration scheme are confidential to the parties involved and it would not be appropriate for me to comment other than to acknowledge, as the Deputy has already done, the tremendous work being done by our personnel abroad.

A clear signal is coming out that 5% will not be adequate or acceptable. I ask the Minister of State to support as much as possible an increase of 10% to 15%, given that the Minister accepted the principle of an increase at the conference in October 2006.

It is obvious that any Minister or Minister of State like myself would be very supportive of the work our Army personnel do abroad. The Minister invited PDFORRA to make its claim and the process is now under way. We need to allow that process to develop. While we must acknowledge the work that has been done, we cannot interfere in this process.

Defence Forces Strength.

Jimmy Deenihan

Question:

5 Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence the strength of the Army ranger wing as a percentage of its establishment; the measures that are being adopted to address the current shortfall; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27978/07]

The strength of the Army ranger wing, ARW, as a percentage of its establishment is in the region of 90%. The strength is sufficient to meet anticipated operational requirements. The ARW actively pursues a policy of recruitment to maintain strength levels and the delivery of required military capabilities. The unit recruits from all services with a continual advertising campaign by means of: road shows and seminars in brigades, corps, the Naval Service and Air Corps conducted by ARW personnel; and advertising in the Defence Forces Connect magazine and An Cosantóir journal.

Induction is by ARW selection courses run on an annual and biannual basis as required. Interest from Permanent Defence Force, PDF, personnel in joining the ARW remains at a very high level. All serving members of the PDF are entitled to apply, provided they are medically fit and have attained the rank of at least three-star private or equivalent. Successful passing of the selection course demands the highest levels of fitness, motivation and competency. There is a continual review of criteria for entry. However, it is critical that the high standards required for entry into the ARW are maintained in order to deliver the strategic capabilities and specialised response required by the Government.

Does the Minister of State have the establishment figure for the ARW? I understand that five people left the wing this year and have not been replaced. Last year 100 people applied to join the Army ranger wing. Eventually approximately three were recruited. However, this year only 15 people applied and no course has taken place. Obviously if five people left this year and there is natural wastage it is clear that the Army ranger wing numbers will be depleted. Would the Minister of State agree that this is the elite wing of our Army? If we agree to go to Chad the ARW will be the forerunner of the main mission and will prepare the ground. They are highly trained and as good as any in the world. They can parachute and dive. They are medics and all-rounders. It is important that this wing of the Army is maintained at its present level and people should be encouraged to join. If the Minister of State can give me the figures, he might also be able to explain why there has been a fall-off in numbers and people are not applying to join the rangers.

For security and operational reasons it has not been military practice to publish exact details of the establishment or actual strength of the ARW. There is merit in sticking to that position. It is critical that the high standards required for entry into the unit are maintained. However, the unit and operation staff review entry standards on an ongoing basis. Regarding the numbers, following the ARW deployment in Liberia there was a significant increase in the number of applicants as a result of the positive exposure to other PDF personnel. A constant interest is displayed by personnel on entry standards to the ARW. In the past two years the number of applicants presenting for the selection course has decreased and this may be attributed to increased opportunities available to soldiers serving overseas.

The Deputy is right to highlight that this is an elite group with very high standards. We are certainly interested in continuing to promote the need to maintain the standards and numbers of this elite corps.

These people value their position and status. Just to have their service valued in the same way as the people going to Chad, the extra €150 that they earn above what they would earn in other sections of the Army may not be a sufficient incentive for people to join the rangers. Obviously they are more exposed to injury. If they get injured in their duties for the Army ranger wing, they are likely to be discharged from the Army, as they would not meet the medical requirements to rejoin mainstream Army activities. I ask the Minister to consider increasing the allowance for membership of the wing and to consider the issue of being discharged from the Army following a serious injury because of the stricter requirements in mainstream defence activities in the country now.

It is not appropriate for me to comment on unresolved claims submitted under the conciliation and arbitration scheme. I believe a number of factors motivate members of the Defence Forces regarding the ARW, including the nature of the activities, training and roles of the ARW, as well as personal motivation. We want to see all these matters resolved by agreement with the association. Discussions under the scheme are confidential to the parties involved and it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on that aspect.

I greatly value the role of this elite corps. I have had personal experience of seeing them in operation. They work to a very high standard and are very effective and professional in the work they do. Many different factors motivate people to join up. We are very conscious of the need to maintain those high standards and I will take on board the points made by the Deputy.

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