Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 22 Apr 2008

Vol. 652 No. 2

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Appointments to State Boards.

Enda Kenny

Question:

1 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the appointments made by him since June 2002 to the State boards or other agencies within his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3554/08]

Enda Kenny

Question:

2 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the names, occupations and dates of appointment of those appointed to the boards of the State agencies and bodies under the aegis of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3559/08]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Question:

3 Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the procedures followed in his Department regarding his appointment of persons to State boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4981/08]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

4 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the appointments made to State boards or agencies operating under the aegis of his Department since June 2007 to date in 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6172/08]

The Taoiseach

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.

The information sought by the Deputies concerning appointments made by me to State boards and agencies under the aegis of my Department since June 2002 is set out in a schedule which I propose to circulate in the Official Report. The relevant bodies are the National Statistics Board, the Law Reform Commission, the National Economic and Social Development Office, the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, the National Economic and Social Council and the National Economic and Social Forum.

The members of State bodies under the aegis of my Department are appointed through well established nominating procedures, having regard both to the remit of the bodies and, consequently, the particular competencies and skills expected of their members. In many instances, the members are nominated through relevant nominating panels. NESC and NESF, for example, comprise representatives of the various pillars involved in social partnership, namely, employer bodies, trade unions, farming organisations and community and voluntary organisations.

Boards and agencies under the aegis of the Department of the Taoiseach

	Board
1	The National Statistics Board
2	The Law Reform Commission
3	The National Economic and Social Development Office (NESDO)
4	The National Centre for Partnership and Performance (NCPP)
5	The National Economic and Social Council (NESC)
6	The National Economic and Social Forum (NESF)
7	Ireland Newfoundland Partnership Board

The National Statistics Board

	Name	Occupation	Date of Appointment
Chairperson	Professor emeritus Brendan Walsh	Professor, UCD	February 2004; reappointed July 2007
Government Departments	Dr. Patricia O’Hara	Western Development Commission	February 2004; reappointed July 2007
	Ms. Mary Doyle	Department of the Taoiseach	February 2004; reappointed July 2007
	Mr. Derek Moran	Department of Finance	February 2004
	Mr. Michael McGrath	Department of Finance	July 2007
Trade Union Pillar	Ms. Paula Carey	ICTU	February 2004
	Mr. Paul Sweeney	ICTU	September 2006, reappointed July 2007
Farming Pillar	Mr. Ciaran Dolan	ICMSA	February 2004
	Mr. Con Lucey	IFA	July 2007
Business Pillar	Mr. Frank Cunneen	IBEC	February 2004
	Mr. Danny McCoy	IBEC	July 2007
Ex Officio Members	Mr. Donal Garvey	Director General, CSO	February 2004; reappointed July 2007
	Mr. Gerry O’Hanlon	Director General, CSO	August 2007

Law Reform Commission - List of appointments to the Law Reform Commission since 2002

	Name	Occupation	Date of Appointment
President	Mrs Justice Catherine McGuinness	Judge of the Supreme Court	22 February 2005
Commissioner (Full-time)	Patricia T. Rickard-Clarke,	Solicitor	15 April 1997 (part-time) 1 October 2001 (full-time) Reappointed 30 September 2004 Reappointed 1 September 2007
Commissioner (Part-time)	Dr. Hilary A Delaney, BL	Senior Lecture in Law, TCD	15 April 1997. Reappointed 15 April, 2002 Resigned May 2005
Commissioner (Part-time)	Professor Finbarr McAuley, BCL, LLB, MPhil, LLD,	Jean Monnet Professor of European Criminal Justice, UCD	1 September 1999. Reappointed 1 September 2004 Reappointed 1 September 2007
Commissioner (Part-time)	Marian Shanley	Solicitor	13 November 2001 Reappointed 12 November 2004 Reappointed 1 September 2007
Senior Counsel (Part-time)	Donal O’Donnell	Senior Counsel	28 June 2005 (replaced Dr. Hilary A. Delaney, BL) Reappointed 1 September 2007

National Economic and Social Development Office

	Name	Occupation/Organisation	Date of Membership
Chairperson	Dermot McCarthy	Secretary General, Department of the Taoiseach. Chairperson, NESC.	01/01/07
	Mary Doyle	Assistant Secretary General, Department of the Taoiseach. Deputy Chairperson, NESC.	01/01/07
	Dr. Maureen Gaffney	Chairperson, NESF.	01/01/07
	Mary Doyle	Assistant Secretary General, Department of the Taoiseach. Deputy Chairperson, NESF.	01/01/07
	Mr. Peter Cassells,	Chairperson, NCPP.	01/01/07
	Mr. Philip Kelly	Assistant Secretary General, Department of the Taoiseach. Deputy Chairperson, NCPP.	01/01/07

National Centre for Partnership and Performance

	Name	Occupation / Organisation	Date ofAppointment
Executive Chairperson	Mr. Peter Cassells		October 2001 — April 2004 reappointed: 7 November 2005
Government Departments	Mr. Philip Kelly, Asst. Secretary Deputy Chairperson	Dept. of the Taoiseach	October 2001 reappointed: 24 January 2006
	Mr. Ciaran Connolly, Asst. Secretary	Dept. of Finance	October 2001 reappointed: 24 January 2006
	Mr. John Walsh, Asst. Secretary (retired)	Dept. of Enterprise, Trade & Employment	June 2002 — (replaced Mr. Maurice Cashell) Reappointed: 24 January 2006
Employers	Mr. Brendan McGinty	Director, Human/Industrial Resources, IBEC	October 2001 Reappointed: 24 January 2006
	Mr. Liam Doherty	Director, Human Resource Services, IBEC	October 2001 Reappointed: 24 January 2006
	Mr. Gavin Marie	IBEC	replaced Mr. Liam Doherty in April 2007
	Mr. Eddie Keenan	CIF	24 January 2006
	Ms. Irene Canavan	Arnotts	24 January 2006
	Mr. Morgan Nolan	Industrial Relations, CIF	Jan 2004 — (replaced Terry McEvoy)
Trade Unions	Mr. Fergus Whelan	Industrial Officer, ICTU	October 2003 — replaced Mr. Tom Wall Reappointed: 24 January 2006
	Mr. Jerry Shanahan	AMICUS	24 January 2006
	Ms. Catherine Byrne	INTO	24 January 2006
	Mr. Des Geraghty	Member of Executive Council, ICTU	September 2004 — (replaced Mr John Tierney, MSF)
	Mr. Gerry McCormack	SIPTU	24 January 2006
	Ms Angela Kirk	IMPACT	September 2004 — (replaced Ms Marie Levis)
	Mr. Sean Heading, Education & Training Services Trust has been nominated by ICTU as an alternate
Independent Members	Prof. Joyce O’Connor	National College of Ireland	24 January 2006
	Ms. Dorothy Butler Scally	Human Resources Consultant	24 January 2006
	Dr. Catherine Kavanagh	UCC	24 January 2006

National Economic and Social Council - Terms of Office of NESC relevant to this PQ; (a) 1998-2001 (extended to 2002); (b) 2003-2006; (c) 2007-2010

	Name	Occupation / Organisation	Dates of Membership
Chairperson	Mr. Dermot McCarthy	Secretary General, Dept. of the Taoiseach	September 2003 June 2007
Deputy Chair	Ms. Mary Doyle	Assistant Secretary, Dept. of the Taoiseach	September 2003 June 2007
Trade Union Pillar
	Mr. David Begg	General Secretary, ICTU	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Peter McLoone	General Secretary, IMPACT	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Manus O’Riordan	Economist, SIPTU	September 2003 June 2007
	Ms. Joan Carmichael	Assistant General Secretary, ICTU	September 2003
	Ms. Sally Anne Kinahan (replaced Joan Carmichael)	Assistant General Secretary, ICTU	January 2004 June 2007
	Mr. Jack O’Connor	Vice President, SIPTU	September 2003 June 2007
Business and Employer Organisation Pillar
	Mr. Turlough O’Sullivan	Director General, IBEC	June 2007
	Ms. Aileen O’Donoghue	Director, Financial Services Ireland	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Brian Geoghegan	Director, IBEC	September 2003
	Mr. Danny McCoy (replaced Brian Geoghegan)	Director of Policy, IBEC	October 2005 June 2007
	Mr. John Dunne	Chief Executive, Chambers of Commerce Ireland	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Liam Kelleher	Director General, Construction Industry Federation	September 2003 June 2007
Agricultural and Farming Organisation Pillar
	Mr. Seamus O’Donoghue	Secretary, ICOS	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Ciaran Dolan	General Secretary, ICMSA	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Michael Berkery	General Secretary, IFA	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Eddie Punch	General Secretary, ICSA	June 2007
	Mr. Damien McDonald	Chief Executive, Macra na Féirme	September 2003
	Mr. Colm Markey	National President, Macra na Féirme	June 2007
Community and Voluntary Pillar
	Fr. Sean Healy	Head of Justice Office, CORI	September 2003 June 2007
	Mr. Donall Geoghegan	Programme Manager, National Youth Council	September 2002 September 2003
	Mr. John Dolan	Chief Executive, Disability Federation of Ireland	September 2003 June 2007
	Ms. Deirdre Garvey	Chief Executive, the Wheel	September 2003
	John Mark McCafferty	Policy Officer, Saint Vincent de Paul	September 2003
	Mr. Séamus Boland	Chief Executive, Irish Rural Link	June 2007
	Ms. Bríd O’Brien	Senior Policy Officer, Irish National Organisation of the Unemployed	June 2007
	Ms. Camille Loftus	Community Platform	June 2007
Government Department Nominees
	Secretary General	Dept. of Finance	September 2003 June 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. of Enterprise, Trade and Employment	September 2003 June 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. of Social and Family Affairs	September 2003 June 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources	September 2003
	Secretary General	Dept. of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government	September 2003 June 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. of Education and Science	June 2007
Independent Nominee
	Prof. John Fitzgerald	Senior Research Officer, ESRI	September 2003
	Prof. Eithne McLaughlin	Dept. of Social Policy, Queens University, Belfast	September 2003
	Mr. Colin Hunt	Head of Research, Goodbody Stockbrokers	September 2003
	Dr. Peter Bacon	Economic Consultant	September 2003
	Prof. Brigid Laffan	Department of Politics, UCD	September 2003
	Dr. Sean Barrett (replaced Colin Hunt)	Department of Economics, Trinity College	January 2005 June 2007
	Mr. Con Lucey	Economist,IFA	June 2007
	Prof. Peter Clinch	UCD	June 2007
	Prof. Elizabeth Meehan	Queen’s University	June 2007

National Economic and Social Forum

	Name	Occupation / Organisation	Date ofAppointment
Independent Chairperson	Maureen Gaffney		Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
Deputy Chairperson	Mary Doyle	Asst. Sec., Dept. of the Taoiseach	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
Strand (i) : Oireachtas	Michael Woods	Fianna Fáil TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	John Curran	Fianna Fáil TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Mary O’Rourke	Fianna Fáil	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Paschal Mooney	Fianna Fáil	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Brendan Daly	Fianna Fáil	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Geraldine Feeney	Fianna Fáil	Jan/Feb 2004
	Pat Carey	Fianna Fáil TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Paul Coghlan	Fine Gael	Jan/Feb 2004
	Damien English	Fine Gael TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Paul Kehoe	Fine Gael TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Joan Burton	Labour TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Willie Penrose	Labour TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Kate Walsh	Progressive Democrats	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Feargal Quinn	Independents	Jan/Feb 2004
	Jerry Cowley	Technical Group TD	Jan/Feb 2004
	Senator Mark MacSharry	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Senator Brian O Domhaill	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	John Curran	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Michael McGrath	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Senator Geraldine Feeney	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Cyprian Brady	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Sean Ardagh	Fianna Fáil	December 07
	Sean Sherlock	Labour	December 07
	Willie Penrose	Labour	December 07
	Dan Neville	Fine Gael	December 07
	Terence Flanagan	Fine Gael	December 07
	Senator Paul Coghlan	Fine Gael	December 07
	Senator Jerry Buttimer	Fine Gael	December 07
	Sean Boyle	Green	December 07
	Senator Ronan Mullen	Independents	December 07
Strand (ii): Employer/ Trade Unions
Employer/Business Organisations	Jackie Harrison	IBEC	January/February 2004
	Maria Cronin	IBEC	October/November 2004 (replaced Jackie Harrison)
	Tony Donohue	IBEC	September 2006 (replaced Maria Cronin)May 2007
	Heidi Lougheed	IBEC	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Patricia Callan	Small Firms Association	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Kevin Gilna	Construction Industry Federation	January/February 2004
	Dr. Peter Stafford	Construction Industry Federation	replaced Kevin Gilna Oct 05 May 2007
	Robert O’ Shea	Chambers of Commerce/Tourist Industry/Exporters Association	January/February 2004
	Sean Murphy	Chambers of Commerce/Tourist Industry/Exporters Association	replaced Robert O’ Shea Aug 05 May 2007
Trade Unions	Eamon Devoy	Technical Engineering & Electrical Union	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Blair Horan	Civil & Public Service Union	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Jerry Shanahan	AMICUS	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Manus O’Riordan	SIPTU	January/February 2004 May 2007
	Paula Carey	ICTU	January/February 2004
	Esther Lynch	ICTU	Sept 2006 (Replaced Paula Carey) May 2007
Agricultural/Farming Organisations	Mary McGreal	Irish Farmers Association	Jan/Feb 2004
	Michael Doody	Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Mary Johnson	Irish Co-Operative Organisation Society	Jan/Feb 2004
	Carmel Brennan	Macra na Feirme	Jan/Feb 2004
	Anne Murray	Irish Country Women’s Association	Jan/Feb 2004
	Carmel Dawson	Irish Country Women’s Association	June 2006 (Replaced Anne Murray) May 2007
	Emer Duffy	Irish Co-Operative Organisation Society	May 2007
	Michael Berkery	General Secretary IFA	May 2007
	Catherine Buckley	Macra na Feirme	May 2007
Strand (iii): Community & Voluntary Sector
Women’s Organisations	Orla O’ Connor	National Women’s Council of Ireland	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Joanna McMinn	National Women’s Council of Ireland	Jan/Feb 2004
Unemployed	June Tinsley	INOU	Jan/Feb 2004
	John Farrell	INOU	replaced June Tinsley Oct 05
	Patricia Short	ICTU Centres for the Unemployed	Jan/Feb 2004
Disadvantaged	Sr. Brigid Reynolds	CORI	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	John-Mark McCafferty	Society of Saint Vincent de Paul	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Audrey Deane	Society of Saint Vincent de Paul	Nov 2004 (replaced John-Mark McCafferty)
	Sharon Keane	Anti-Poverty Networks	Jan/Feb 2004
	Joe Gallagher	Anti-Poverty Networks	replaced Sharon Keane Sept 05
Youth/Children	Malcolm Byrne	NYCI	Jan/Feb 2004
	Marie Claire McAleer	NYCI	replaced Malcolm Byrne Sept 04
	Raymond Dooley	Children’s Rights Alliance	Jan/Feb 2004
	Jillian Ban Turnhout	Children’s Rights Alliance	replaced Raymond Dooley Aug 05 May 2007
Older People	Robin Webster	National Council for Ageing and Older People/Senior Citizen’s Parliament/Age Action	Jan/Feb 2004
Others	Frank Goodwin	The Carers Association	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Seamus Boland	Irish Rural Link	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Fergus O’Ferrall	The Wheel	Jan/Feb 2004
	Ivan Cooper	The Wheel	May 2007
	Brid O’Brien	Pavee Point	Jan/Feb 2004
	Aisling Walsh	Disability Federation of Ireland	Jan/Feb 2004
	Joanne McCarthy	Disability Federation of Ireland	replaced Aisling Walsh in 2006 May 2007
	Michael O’Halloran	Chief Executive Officer Irish Senior Citizens Parliament	May 2007
	Marie Claire McAleer	National Youth Council of Ireland	May 2007
	Karen Murphy	Irish Council for Social Housing Head of Services	May 2007
	Frances Byrne	OPEN	May 2007
	Kathleen McCann	Congress Centres Network	May 2007
	Stavros Stavrou	Integrating Ireland	May 2007
	Maria Joyce	National Traveller Womens Forum	May 2007
Strand (iv): Central Government, Local Government and Independents
Central Government	Secretary General	Dept. Finance	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. Enterprise, Trade & Employment	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. Social & Family Affairs	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. Community, Rural & Gaeltacht Affairs	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Secretary General	Dept. Environment, Heritage & Local Government	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
Local Government	Councillor John Egan	General Council of County Councils	Jan/Feb 2004
	Councillor Ger Barron	General Council of County Councils	Nov 2004 (replaced Cllr. John Egan) May 2007
	Councillor Patsy Treanor	General Council of County Councils	Jan/Feb 2004
	Councillor Jack Crowe	General Council of County Councils	Nov 2004 (replaced Cllr Patsy Treanor)
	Councillor Constance Hanniffy	General Council of County Councils	Jan/Feb 2004May 2007
	Councillor Patricia McCarthy	Association of Municipal Authorities	Jan/Feb 2004
	Donal O’Donoghue	County and City Managers Association	Jan/Feb 2004
	John Tierney	County and City Managers Association	Nov 2004 (replaced Donal O’Donoghue)
	Councillor Mattie Ryan	Association of County and City Councils	May 2007
	Councillor Paddy O’Callaghan	Association of Municipal Authorities of Ireland	May 2007
	Councillor William Ireland	Local Authorities Members Association	May 2007
Independents	Dr Colm Harmon	Institute for the Study of Social Change, UCD	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Dr Mary P. Corcoran	Department of Sociology	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Dr Brian Nolan	ESRI	Jan/Feb 2004
	Paul Tansey	Tansey, Webster, Stewart & Company Ltd.	Jan/Feb 2004
	Cait Keane	South Dublin County Council	Jan/Feb 2004 May 2007
	Marie Carroll	Southside Partnership	May 2007
	Professor Rose Ann Kenny	TCD	May 2007

Ireland Newfoundland Partnership Board

Name	Occupation	Date of Appointment
Chairman: Michael Ahern, T.D.	Minister for Innovation Policy	June 2002
Walter Kirwan	Former Assistant Secretary, Department of the Taoiseach	April 2001
Dr. Peter Heffernan	Chief Executive, Marine Institute	April 2001
Seamus O’Morain	Assistant Secretary, Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment	April 2001
Una Murphy	Industrial Outreach officer, NUIG	April 2001
Thomas Hyland	Management Consultant, Former Manager Ireland West IDA Ireland	Feb 2002
Michael Delaney	Head of Development, Cork Institute of Technology	Feb 2004
Patrick Murphy	Art Adviser, OPW	Feb 2004
Caroline Senior	Director, Garter Lane Arts Centre	Feb 2004
Dr. Peadar McArdle	Director, Geological Survey of Ireland	October 2005
Professor Kieran Byrne	Director, Waterford Institute of Technology	January 2006
Nick Marmion	Canada manager, Enterprise Ireland	Sept 2007

Deputy Enda Kenny

I have three questions for the Taoiseach arising from his reply. I understand that the Green Party, whose Members are not here at present, has written to organisations asking for nominees for green appointments to State boards. Obviously this means there is a carve-up within the Government as regards these appointments, with one party getting three, another one or whatever. Will the Taoiseach confirm whether that is the case because these absent Members were very vociferous and most vocal about all State appointments for a number of years when they sat on the benches behind us?

Does the Taoiseach agree that the time has perhaps come when the important chairmanship and chief executive positions should be overseen by the relevant Dáil committee? I am not suggesting that candidates should be overseen in the investigative sense but that the committee would have explained to it why the candidates believe they have a contribution to make and why their qualifications make them feel eligible for the position on offer.

The case of a county councillor from the Taoiseach's party was referred to the Garda following an investigation by the Standards in Public Office Commission. I do not know what will emerge from this, there may be a prosecution. In another case, an appointee to a State board is under investigation for an alleged assault, but I cannot predict the outcome. Does the Taoiseach believe that, where such instances occur, the persons involved should step aside until the investigation is complete? Does he believe this would be good for the individuals concerned and for the companies they represent?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy asked whether appointments to State boards are divided between Government parties. That is not the case.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Our crowd used to have that, with the few appointments we had.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Give them whatever they want.

The Taoiseach

Appointments to boards are made on the basis of knowledge, expertise and experience that individuals can bring to the work of the boards. In many cases, appointments are made on the basis of nomination by relevant groups, such as the social partners. I have listed all the groups. In so far as there is a breakdown — it is not between political parties — it is evident in respect of NESC, for example, which has been in existence for a long time. Five of its board members are nominated by agriculture and farming organisations, five by business and employer organisations, five by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and five by community and voluntary organisations. Five are nominated independently by the Government and Secretaries General of various Departments are included. There is a breakdown and it is the same with the NESF and the NCPP, although the process is slightly different. It is certainly not done on a political basis.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Definitely not.

Deputy Enda Kenny

They have been writing to organisations.

The Taoiseach

I did not know that. The position is not like it was at one time, when people were queuing up to be on State boards. One must work long and hard to try to get highly competent people to sit on State boards nowadays——

Deputy Enda Kenny

I know that.

The Taoiseach

——because of corporate governance and time commitments. The political identity of a large proportion of people appointed to State boards would not be known, and rightly so. The appointees are appointed on the basis of their expertise in society, and this is increasingly the case.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Maybe even friendship in the appointment.

The Taoiseach

There is a bit of that too, but only on the basis that they are highly competent people.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Friends.

The Taoiseach

To be frank with the Deputy, in respect of all the main boards — most of them are smaller boards now — one would not survive on a board for too long without the necessary expertise and competency. I refer in particular to the commercial State-sponsored boards, which are the main boards. They have large budgets and staffs, audit committees and high governance levels, and it is difficult enough to recruit people who are prepared to offer their time and service to the State. Normally people who are very high ranking in their own businesses or companies, or who are of a certain age, are sought.

On Deputy Kenny's second question, some thought has been put into the issue of involving committees of the House in examining appointments to some boards. Some of my colleagues will try to bring forward proposals in this regard. I do not think it will be too long before the Deputy will see some of those proposals. We will leave it to the Ministers to explain how precisely it will work. Some of my colleagues wish to involve committees — I think this has been debated in the committees — so that rather than being from a party political position it will be from membership of committees. I think it is worth trying anyway and seeing what happens. A few of my ministerial colleagues will try to pilot this and bring it forward shortly. I will leave it to them to go into that in the future.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Is the Taoiseach stepping aside?

The Taoiseach

A number of people on boards have raised this question with me over the years. I do not want to get into names but I have seen a number of them step aside. However, overwhelmingly, whether they did or did not, it would be entirely wrong because most of the insinuations made about them subsequently — usually not long afterwards — turn out to be wrong. There are a few cases in point at the moment where it would be an absolute travesty of justice if they stepped aside because they prove to have absolutely nothing in them. I do not really think we should get into that.

There is a problem in this country as against other countries. We have to change our culture. Stepping aside in this country means the person steps aside forever. It is about the only country where that happens. In every other country one steps aside for a few months and then steps back. That culture does not exist in this country — wrongly so in my view. It applies to politicians and it applies to people on boards and agencies. If somebody for some reason steps aside then he or she should not be gone out of a position forever, particularly people who have a lot to contribute especially to State boards. We have had a few significant people on State boards who did that over time and never came back again. I think that is wrong. Just because somebody takes off with some allegation — in this country most of the allegations are——

Deputy Enda Kenny

I thought the Taoiseach was going to propose a new concept for his own position, that he was not going to go away for good and would come back again in a few months.

The Taoiseach

I totally exclude myself. I am thinking more of boards and the like. In the seven or eight I know of — I am talking about ones in the past that are gone and finished — I think in all cases they were totally innocent of anything that was said about them. That would have happened across the party political system. Obviously for something that is very major and is very clear-cut, then there is a case. However, in most of these things there is not. I have seen things involving people in business and people involved in allegations that were made about people. They invariably tend to be wrong and are wrong. I am not big into that, in fairness to the people involved.

More important, it is good that we are now seeing more representative bodies and groups in legislation. I repeat what I have said here a number of times on Question Time. In recent years the capacity of the Executive to get the right people to be on the main 20 boards and to give of the necessary time to corporate governance and other issues is increasingly difficult. I want to thank all those who give that time commitment. In the modern world it is not maybe as it was 25 years ago where people might have attended a board meeting once a month. Increasingly these boards have sub-committees, audit committees or corporate governance committees where people are asked to give a large number of hours. Deputy Kenny knows as well as I do that many of these people never even draw down what are the relatively small amounts that are given to them — they do not bother with them. So it has nothing to do with that. Sometimes they do it for the prestige although I am not sure there is much prestige anymore. I think people just do it in the interests of public service and we appreciate that.

The idea of involving the committees is something that some of my colleagues are going to have a go at.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I welcome that. It would be in the interest of the incumbents or the proposed appointees to be able to appear before an Oireachtas committee and give their view as to why they feel they would have a contribution to make. They can give an assessment of why they feel qualified to do the job. I agree it is difficult to get good people to serve on State boards and members of the Government must trawl through lists of names on the same panels regularly. The involvement of Oireachtas committees in this would be beneficial as it would be a public process and would allow those taking up duties to explain how they feel they can make a contribution to the State.

The Taoiseach

I wish to add that that should not rule out members of committees.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

This is the final occasion on which we may question the Taoiseach on his appointments to State boards. Did I hear a sigh of relief?

Has the Taoiseach ever seriously considered the arguments put forward by this Deputy and others in favour of a more open and transparent system of appointments to State boards? Would the Taoiseach consider advertising vacancies, inviting applications for consideration and holding interviews, with appointments to follow? This is fairly standard stuff; has the Taoiseach given it consideration? In response to my questions on this subject, the Taoiseach has previously acknowledged that there are people who have the required expertise, interest and willingness to serve but are not identified on the Richter scale that is currently being employed when choosing possible appointees. If the Taoiseach has not given this consideration, would he, on concluding his responsibilities in this area, commend to his successor that consideration be given to such a system across the board? I believe it would produce a fairer, more interested and responsive body of citizens than the current limited cadre of people who are considered.

The Taoiseach, Ministers and Ministers of State are subject to a code of conduct for office holders and Deputies and Senators are dealt with in ethics legislation. Is there a comparable arrangement relating to members of State boards? If not, does the Taoiseach feel consideration should be given to this matter as such appointees hold important, responsible positions?

The Taoiseach

I have said this before but it may be worth repeating. The view on State boards, for which I have been responsible for the past 11 years, is mistaken. One could take any State board as an example. The National Statistics Board is chaired by Professor Brendan Walsh of University College Dublin and also includes Dr. Patricia O'Hara of the Western Development Commission, two officials from the Department of Finance, one official from the Department of the Taoiseach, two officials from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, two representatives of the farming pillar, two representatives of the business pillar and an ex officio member from the Central Statistics Office. One can examine practically all of the boards to see that their memberships are drawn from a huge pool including employers, trade unions and voluntary pillars. The organisations involved, including the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and farmers, nominate people from thousands of members, hundreds of thousands of members in the case of trade unions. With practically all of these boards, my right as Taoiseach to appoint board members is nil. In some cases, it is just to appoint an official. That is the way throughout all State boards. It has moved on.

That applies to most boards and is set out in legislation. I cannot recall nominating anyone to a board under my aegis. I am sure I must have somewhere in the past 11 years but the view that I am there with a list is not the case. These are all people nominated by a huge panel. On some of these boards there are members of all parties, including Deputy Ó Caoláin's. To be honest, if I were picking I probably would not choose them. However, that is not what happens. There are two nominating bodies so it could not be more open or expansive. To find some other system that would be more restrictive and not allow a huge broad trawl would work against what the Deputy is requesting. Deputy Ó Caoláin has a mistaken view of how the system operates.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Taoiseach did not respond to my question on a code of conduct or ethics legislation applying to members of State boards.

The Taoiseach quipped as to what he would like to do with people associated with Sinn Féin getting on to these boards. Does the Taoiseach recall that he has acknowledged, both in the House and outside it, that he has appointed friends of his to such positions? I recall that distinctly. I am sure they were all deserved appointees but I do not believe we can erase what has been acknowledged in the past.

My view has nothing to do with the political association of any appointee but that there is transparency in the process. Will the Taoiseach accept the validity of the argument for a simpler system? There are many people, who others will never identify, who might bring good sense and a particular expertise to these positions. The only way to achieve this is to leave the process open for people to present their credentials.

Will the Taoiseach advise as to what steps could be taken to further ensure gender equality in appointments to State boards? I refer to the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, as an example. Should more be done to ensure a 40% achievement for either gender on these State boards, particularly with the NESC? What does the Taoiseach believe should be done in this respect? What steps has he taken to address the serious imbalance in representation along gender lines on State boards?

The Taoiseach

It is an ongoing issue to try to improve the gender balance on State boards. I acknowledge that the broad social partnership process has improved on this in recent years. The percentage is far higher than it was. In the cases of NESC, the National and Economic Social Forum, NESF, the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, NCCP, which are all under my Department, the gender balance ratio is about 60:40. It is always a battle to get the nominating bodies to ensure they take gender into account. In some other boards, it has improved substantially and is still improving. However, it will never be perfect unless continual pressure is put on. In most nominating bodies, the ratio is higher.

On the issue of governance, there are strict corporate governance rules, codes, audit rules and various procedures with which people on boards must comply. They are even tighter in respect of commercial State bodies under company law legislation. Boards are all subject to strict scrutiny and must comply with statutory and non-statutory codes that have been changed many times in the past ten years, always making the requirements tighter.

Under my aegis competent, capable and efficient people who have done an excellent job have been appointed to boards, but the process in respect of all of the bodies under my aegis is enormously transparent and open, possibly with the exception of the Law Reform Commission, membership of which requires expertise. One cannot be a commissioner without the relevant years of experience in the legal profession. The other bodies are open to the nominating bodies and people are normally picked by the national officers of the organisations for participation on the boards. This provides an open field and a large number of people from which to pick and has continually strengthened people's participation on the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, and the other bodies involved. I do not have the number of people on the NESC, but the ratio on most of the bodies is 60:40, more or less, according to the last figures I saw. Gender is an ongoing issue, but it has generally improved a great deal across boards in the past five years.

Deputy Joan Burton

Does the Taoiseach agree with the comments of his colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, that we need to clean up the process by which people are appointed to public office and to end the possibility of putting friends in high places? Does the Government plan to review the process or is this another instance of the Green Party not pursuing what it stated while in opposition?

The handbook states that the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste or other party leader in the Government should be informed separately in advance of such proposals, and that the proposals should be tabled in advance. That means there is prior knowledge. In this context, what would be wrong with publishing a short indication of the qualifications of those being appointed? In the United States of America, of which the Taoiseach is an admirer, significant appointments are the subject of public hearings by various committees of the Congress and Senate to ensure the persons appointed have the appropriate knowledge and expertise. If appropriate, questions on political affiliation may be asked. Has the Taoiseach considered reform?

Does the Taoiseach intend to make appointments to boards before his departure on 6 May or has he discussed the issue of appointments to State boards before 7 May when there will be a change of Taoiseach and of members of the Government? A significant appointment that is awaited is that of Comptroller and Auditor General, a position that is provided for in the Constitution. In our system, it is an important appointment. Will the Taoiseach indicate to the House whether the Cabinet has agreed an appointment or whether the Taoiseach has put forward a name, given that the Comptroller and Auditor General has indicated his intention to retire after many years of outstanding service to the State? Has this been agreed and will this appointment be published or decided on by the Government before the Taoiseach leaves office? The nomination is by the Government and must be approved by the Dáil, after which the President makes the appointment. This appointment is probably one of the most important of all in respect of the checks and balances and governance arrangements that operate in this State. While I am sure the 60 or 70 people on the various boards who were listed in the Taoiseach's reply are all good and worthy, the Comptroller and Auditor General has the power to ask very important people what they did with taxpayers' money and to account for it. What is the position in respect of the pending nomination and appointment, under the Constitution, of a new Comptroller and Auditor General?

The Taoiseach

Deputy Burton is correct to state it is an extremely important position, which is the reason it is set down in legislation and practice. I do not believe the appointment will be made for some time to come. While there is a process, I cannot recall exactly what it is. Ultimately, when the process takes place, the Minister for Finance will recommend the individual to the Government, followed by Government approval and appointment by the President. The process in respect of a replacement for Mr. Purcell has started and will take some time. As far as I am aware, he will not resign until July and this process will be under way. As for any other posts, the Government fills them as they arise. However, there are no particular posts of which I am aware that will arise in the period remaining to me.

The Deputy is correct to state that I am a supporter of many features of the American system. However, the United States has a population of 260 million people while Ireland has a population of 4 million people. Every position comes up for appointment there, including heads of departments, heads of committees and so on. This constitutes a completely different system to ours, in which public servants hold all such positions. Their ambassadors come up before committees and thankfully we do not operate such a system. While I like many aspects of the American system, no work would ever be done around here, were we to start doing this and I do not advocate this system for the Oireachtas. However, as I stated earlier, some of my colleagues have pilot schemes that involve committees looking at some of these issues and possibly the participation of some of the committee people in them. However, these are issues for another day and the Ministers will bring this forward.

I repeat what I have said many times before, namely, it is difficult enough in our system. In fairness to my new colleagues in the Green Party they have, in their appointments, been leaning strongly towards some whose political allegiances are to the Deputy's party. While I readily admit this is because they are good people, it demonstrates that political appointments are not made on a political basis. Throughout the system at present, people of all political persuasions, as well as those who do not declare them, serve in positions on State boards because they are good and competent. While obviously one finds people who are politically aligned in the system, they still are very good people and I believe the system works well.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach should elaborate a little in respect of the Comptroller and Auditor General because this constitutes a good example of a very important appointment. Is this appointment, which carries highly significant remuneration, subject to advertising? Is canvassing under way or are headhunters seeking candidates to put their names forward for the job? It is an important appointment and constitutes one of the top ten offices in this country. However, what happens is shrouded in mystery. We do not even know if an appointment process is followed. I do not see what is wrong with a person who is nominated to a board indicating his or her experience and qualifications for the position. I cannot see why that information should not be made available at a minimum.

The Taoiseach's party has been in Government for 11 years and Ministers will inevitably know their party's members and supporters. However, if we are to encourage the best people to go forward, being a member of a political party should be neither a guarantee of appointment to a board nor a barrier to serving in a public capacity. There should be transparency in respect of qualifications and it should be indicated whether nominees are supporters or members of particular political parties. If this information was openly available, perhaps more people would be willing to put their names forward for political appointments.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a statement rather than asking a question.

Deputy Joan Burton

It is astonishing that we do not know the process for appointing the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Approximately 15% of our population now comprises immigrants, yet I do not see any names which might belong to immigrants in the list supplied by the Taoiseach of appointments to boards under the remit of his Department. How can immigrants who have lived in Ireland for the past ten or 18 years be appointed to State boards? Should they join political parties or get involved in ICTU or the various employers' federations? How do people who want to serve the public partake in the appointment process? Should it not be more transparent, inviting and open to people of skill and substance?

The Taoiseach

I hope Deputy Burton will agree that the appointment of the current Comptroller and Auditor General was very good.

Deputy Joan Burton

Absolutely.

The Taoiseach

I made that appointment 14 years ago and he has been in his position since then. The same system will be followed when the new Comptroller and Auditor General is appointed. The process has already commenced, although it will not be completed for some time.

Deputy Joan Burton

Will the Taoiseach send us a note on the process?

The Taoiseach

It is actually the responsibility of the Department of Finance but I will ask that Department to send a note to the Deputy.

On the other issue, that would be unfair. I know of at least two State boards to which individuals have been appointed who everyone believes are aligned to the Deputy's party. They may not be, however, and I do not think it fair to ask them. They are very good people who have been appointed in recent weeks and months. Normally what happens in the social partnership process is that people who have attained a high standard and reputation on the national executive of employers organisations or in senior positions in congress and have demonstrated their competence and ability to administer are appointed to boards. They have proved they possess the skills. Other people who have expertise in various areas are also appointed.

If they were asked to appear before committees to answer for something when they are given €500 or €5,000 which they never claim, there is not a chance they would subject themselves to that. They would be out of their mind to do so. It is not the same as public office in the United States, where somebody takes a job where they will be paid several million dollars per year. That does not happen in this country. We do not have salaries like that for our most senior public servants. The system is entirely different. People come to prominence in different areas, whether through chambers of commerce, trade unions or the various sectors of the voluntary pillar. It is a small country and it is fairly clear where people of expertise and prominence come from. In that small pool, selection has increasingly been given over to other bodies, whether they be community, business, employer, central Government or local government bodies. It is a very transparent system, probably more transparent than most of the European systems. We should not change that, as I said in reply to Deputy Kenny. There are some pilot schemes that could be operated to allow committees to be more involved.

Ministerial Transport.

Enda Kenny

Question:

5 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the procedures in place in his Department in respect of the use of the Government jets; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3558/08]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

6 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the guidelines operated by his Department in regard to requests for use of the Air Corps aircraft for ministerial or official travel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4656/08]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Question:

7 Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the role of his Department with regard to determining the use of Government aircraft; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4982/08]

The Taoiseach

I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 7, inclusive, together.

The procedures I outlined to the House previously in regard to use of the ministerial air transport service, MATS, most recently on 6 March 2007, have not changed. The position is that my approval is required prior to the service being used. Procedurally, requests for use of the service are made by Ministers' private secretaries to my office and are dealt with, in the first instance, by the staff of my office.

Requests are examined by my staff with regard to the need for and purpose of travel, the destination and other logistical details. Any necessary clarification or further information is sought at this point. All screened requests are then submitted to me for my consideration and approval, if deemed appropriate. Once approved, all operational matters are settled directly between the office of the Minister in question and the Department of Defence or, normally, the Air Corps.

Deputy Enda Kenny

What transport is available? Is it one jet or two? Are the Beechcraft still available? I was in one a few times, which was an experience. What is the priority rating? Are there occasions when former Taoisigh can use the transport?

The Taoiseach

We recommended it.

Deputy Willie O’Dea

We will see what we can do.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I was interested in the way the costings are computed. When the late Pope John Paul II died, the Vatican requested State participation and I had the honour of travelling to attend that funeral on the Government jet with a number of others and in the presence of the Taoiseach. I was astounded to read a few weeks later that I had cost the State €11,000 to travel as a passenger on the Government jet. How are these costs calculated? If the Minister, Deputy O'Dea, flies to Chad, is that done according to a pecking order or can he say "I need to get out there to see my troops and see that they are properly equipped." What is the situation with regard to the would-be commander-in-chief of the Defence Forces being able to use Government transport to get out there to see how our troops are doing?

Deputy Joan Burton

The programme for Government states that it will "require carbon offsetting of all official air travel in support of urban forests". This is probably the Taoiseach's last or second last day to take Questions. I wondered what an urban forest was but then I read in the newspapers this morning of a proposal for the Carlton cinema site with gardens and parks at roof level. Is this one of the Taoiseach's last legacies that, as part of the programme for Government, we will have an urban forest atop a 20 or 30-storey building in O'Connell Street? An urban forest is referred to in the programme for Government as a way of carbon offsetting and I wonder what it is.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I thought that was Gorse Hill.

Deputy Joan Burton

Today's edition of The Irish Times stated that a rooftop forest is included in the planning application for the new Carlton site. Has the Taoiseach worked this out?

An Ceann Comhairle

I doubt the Government jet will be taking off from it. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I will keep it simple. Given that the Taoiseach has proven the old Irish piseog to be false that lightning never strikes twice in the one place, has he any alternative intentions of making his way to Washington?

Deputy Enda Kenny

Perhaps on the Queen Mary.

The Taoiseach

In reply to Deputy Kenny on what aircraft are available, the Gulfstream IV jet is still in operation. That was acquired in 1991 and all of my colleagues know my views on it. The aircraft is 16 years old and has flown more than 11,000 hours. I am told there is not an aircraft in the world, or the Third World, that has flown that number of hours.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan

Is it a bundle of scrap?

Deputy Dick Roche

We cannot sell it for scrap.

The Taoiseach

My colleagues know what I believe is the alternative to it but I do not think it is a great idea for it to go on and on.

The Learjet, which we bought at the beginning of the Presidency in 2004, was a replacement for the Beechcraft Kingair and provides a service for short and medium haul flights. It has proven extremely reliable and has been used on the European missions. It has its faults because one cannot stand up——

Deputy Dick Roche

Even I cannot stand up in it.

The Taoiseach

——and it does not have a toilet but it gets from A to B for which I have been very grateful many times.

Following two minor fires I do not believe the Beechcraft has been used much in recent times.

Deputy Phil Hogan

That is not too bad.

The Taoiseach

The CASA is used now and again and if one has earmuffs on that is very useful, but the aircraft are all very useful. The one aspect of them that is perfect is the staff. I thank all of the staff who fly them all. As to whether they could be improved, that would be a good idea for the next Taoiseach.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

How is the Taoiseach travelling to Brussels? Is it with Ryanair?