It is proposed to take No. 23, statements re cancer reports; and No. 4, Electricity Regulation (Amendment) (EirGrid) Bill 2008 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 23 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to put to the House. Are the arrangements regarding No. 23, statements re cancer reports, agreed to? Agreed.
Yesterday, the Tánaiste spoke about the forthcoming pay round and social partnership agreement. He spoke for many when he urged the need for greater productivity increases and pay restraint. Will he apply these principles to the activities of his Government? The Government recently increased the number of Ministers of State by three, increased the number of Oireachtas committees by three and an order is soon to be made whereby Ministers will receive huge increases in pay without regard to performance or productivity, including the Tánaiste, who will be due €38,000 if he is then Taoiseach. Does the Tánaiste intend to withdraw the order to provide for increases for Ministers and other members of Government and apply the lessons to his——
There is no Leaders' Questions today.
This is an issue on which an order will be laid.
It is not strictly in order on the Order of Business.
There is an order to be laid before the House and it goes to the heart of public business. We are entitled to know the Government's view.
Is such an order to be laid before the House?
Yes, in September.
I am perfectly entitled to ask if the Government intends to withdraw the order in light of the decision of the Tánaiste to tell all of us that we are facing into more uncertain times, which we knew already, and that the emphasis needs to be on productivity.
The point is well made.
Fine Gael urged that a referendum on absolute child protection be taken early. The Government did not decide to go that route. Useful work is being done in the committee established to consider this. Does the Tánaiste see greater urgency to proceed quickly with the referendum in light of the decision in court yesterday?
Regarding the court case yesterday, an all-party committee is considering in what way matters can be advanced beyond the legislation we were obliged to enact following the C case in 2006, which permitted the defence of honest mistake as to age in cases where the essence of the defence related to the age of the person. It is important to see if the committee can advance the work it is doing and draw consensus around the issue. We have heard that issues must be carefully deliberated upon.
On the other matter raised by the Deputy, the pay talks formally begin this morning, with sessions to take place this afternoon, at which many issues will be raised. The pay review body is part of the established industrial relations machinery of the country. The Labour Court and Public Service Arbitration Board have been in existence for more than 40 years.
As regards the specific recommendations made for politicians, we deferred that pay rise for over a year and decided not to pay the increase over a further three-year period. That was a Government decision, taken some time ago.
Is it intended to proceed with this in September? I know what the history is. I am asking——
The Deputy has had a good innings on this issue.
I did not get the answer to the question which concerns the ordering of Dáil business. I am entitled to ask that and to get a view as to whether this will be presented in September, as was first promised.
I understood from the Tánaiste that it will be presented in September. Is that the position?
The Government has not revisited the matter since that decision was taken.
I wish to raise three matters. As regards the issue raised by Deputy Bruton concerning child protection and the age of consent, an Oireachtas committee made a total of 61 recommendations on this area some time ago, none of which appears to have been implemented. Will the Tánaiste say what plans the Government has to implement those recommendations while the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children is still considering the more complicated issue of the promised amendment?
Yesterday, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform published new proposals to tighten the law as regards the sale and abuse of alcohol. They are obviously welcome and I should like if the Tánaiste could indicate when those proposals might be brought before the House. I also want to ask about legislation already enacted, but which has not been implemented, including provisions for the traceability of drink, particularly drink sold in off-licences, and plans to have such stock labelled so that it can be traced. Then there is the legislation enacted to allow for on-the-spot fines for drunken behaviour in public places, which has not been implemented either. When will the Government implement the legislation that has already been enacted?
The third matter relates to the appointment of the Comptroller and Auditor General, which I have raised before, and Deputy Burton raised it with the Taoiseach on Tuesday. The Comptroller and Auditor General is due to retire on 14 May. His replacement has to be nominated and approved by this House for appointment by the President. To date, my party has not been informed as regards the plans or procedures the Government intends to apply to the proposal for a new Comptroller and Auditor General. We have not been consulted although we have raised the matter here a couple of times before this. I should like to know what is happening. We do not want to find ourselves simply being presented with a fait accompli here some morning. This is an important constitutional office dealing with oversight of Government spending and the country’s money. Obviously, it has a critical role as regards the waste of public expenditure, as well. We have not been consulted on this to date and we want to be. Will the Tánaiste please tell the House what plans there are in this regard?
I had a meeting with the incumbent Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. John Purcell, only yesterday. He outlined to me the outcome of interviews which had taken place for that post. It is a matter for the Oireachtas to decide upon, and the President will make the appointment on foot of that. As a result of that discussion yesterday, I intend to be in touch with the Leader of the Opposition and Deputy Gilmore to explain the outcome of that meeting, to see whether we can provide a candidate arising from that. I shall report to the Deputy on that basis.
On the legislative matters the Deputy talked about, I understand the Minister envisages the heads of the Bill spoken about in the last couple of days will reflect the requirement to bring people to the Garda station before an on-the-spot fine can be applied. He believes this is a necessary safeguard, and it will be incorporated in the Bill which it is hoped to have as soon as possible, hopefully this session.
Regarding the all-party committee, an issue arose yesterday in the courts. Again, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will be the best person to answer parliamentary questions on the detail of this. The joint committee is looking at a series of recommendations on these matters and is due to report in November, I understand. That is the up to date positions on these questions.
On the appointment of a Comptroller and Auditor General, will the Tánaiste clarify what that means? Do I understand from him that the post is not being advertised? When he talks about interviews taking place, does this mean that a process of selection is already under way for——
We cannot deal with these matters now.
It is a constitutional appointment.
It is a constitutional appointment.
Absolutely. It is not an internal appointment.
It is not an internal appointment. It requires to be brought before the House, which must approve a name and the appointment is made by the President. It is a very important position. We have seen the work of the Committee of Public Accounts over the years and the reports on the waste of public expenditure. This is an important and sensitive position. I understand the Tánaiste to be saying there is now some type of selection process under way to identify a new Comptroller and Auditor General. This is the first we have heard of it, there has been no public advertising of the post and it has been asked about here on a number of occasions. In fact, when Deputy Burton asked about it on Tuesday, the Taoiseach seemed to think that this was an appointment which was in the gift of the Government and that it would not arise until July. Now we are being told that some type of selection process is under way, and I should like to hear more about that. This is an important constitutional position.
I am afraid we cannot have a debate on it now.
For the purposes of clarification, the same process is being adhered to now as previously. An indication has been given by the outgoing Comptroller and Auditor General that he wishes to retire. Expressions of interest were sought as to who might be interested in taking up the post. I am aware that this is a matter for appointment by the Oireachtas, and as a result of the meeting I had, yesterday, with the outgoing Comptroller and Auditor General, I shall discuss the matter further with the leaders of the Opposition parties.
I am sorry we cannot have a debate about it now. There may be a need for a substantive motion on this, but we are dealing with the Order of Business for today.
The Tánaiste has announced expressions of interest were sought. Where were these sought, and how?
On what basis?
That would seem to be appropriate either for Leaders' Questions or Taoiseach's Questions.
This matter will come before the House some time before 14 May. Unless we get some clarity on what is going on here, the consensual support which is normal for this type of appointment will not be forthcoming from my party.
Arising from the Weston Park talks, the British and Irish Governments jointly invited Judge Peter Cory to examine a number of atrocities that had taken place in the course of the conflict in the North of the island. One of these was the murder of Pat Finucane, and a clear recommendation was made to establish a full independent inquiry. The Irish Government was directly involved. We learn this morning that the British Government has indicated there will be no further preparation for any inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane——
I have given the Deputy some leeway.
My question is based on a decision the House has already taken unanimously on this particular issue. I am trying to establish, in the advent of the Northern Ireland Office's decision to suspend any preparation — citing the Finucane family's opposition to the conduct of such an inquiry under the so-called British Inquiries Act 2005 — what the Tánaiste can and will do, as Taoiseach, to address this matter.
I am giving latitude to the Deputy but I now need to call the Tánaiste.
Will he act in the manner desired by the family itself?
It is not strictly in order on the Order of Business.
I understand Mrs. Finucane is meeting the Taoiseach today. What steps will the Tánaiste take to meet the requirement of this House and the Finucane family in respect of the murder of Pat Finucane?
I have facilitated what is more appropriate to a parliamentary question to the Taoiseach.
These are questions that must be answered.
I call Deputy Crawford.
It is surely in order. An all-party motion has been passed by the House. It is in that context——
It has.
What steps will the Tánaiste take?
That would be an appropriate question to ask either during Leaders' Questions or directly to the Taoiseach during Taoiseach's questions.
I welcome the statement by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform yesterday on the change in the law regarding the sale of alcohol. In that context, will the Government bring forward the enforcement of fines Bill to release gardaí so they can be given a more useful role?
I call the Tánaiste on the enforcement of fines Bill.
An issue arises regarding the new nursing home subvention Bill, which was to be introduced in February 2007. The failure to introduce it is causing total chaos. When will the Bill be introduced?
I call the Tánaiste on the enforcement of fines Bill and the "fair deal" Bill.
It is not possible to indicate at this stage when the enforcement of fines Bill, which is to end imprisonment where practicable for the inability to pay fines and to provide for new ways of enforcing fines, will be brought forward. It is subject to a preliminary stage of examination.
On the other issue, I have said every day I am in the House that it is still being considered.
It is urgent.
A great number of elderly people are in a very frustrated state and do not know where they will get their medication if the pharmacists go on strike.
The Deputy should ask a question on the Order of Business.
I have probably 500 letters in my office on this matter. When will the urgently required pharmacy (No. 2) Bill come before the House?
It is not related to that matter at all. It is not possible to indicate when it will be brought forward.
It is related.
Deputy Crawford already raised the issue of the "fair deal" legislation. The senior citizens' organisations appear to have received some kind of assurance that the Bill will be published by the end of April because they say so in their newsletters. Can the Tánaiste give us any date? The end of April is next week and quite a considerable sum has been allocated under the health budget to implement the legislation.
There are three Bills on the pink sheet that pertain to the Department of Health and Children. Two of them were on the pink sheet last term, the adoption Bill and the health (long-term residential care services) Bill. The child care Bill is now included. Has the Tánaiste a date for the introduction of any of these, particularly the adoption Bill, which is to implement the Hague Convention in respect of intercountry adoptions?
Three health Bills have been mentioned.
I understand from the Chief Whip that those three Bills will be taken this session.
Does the Tánaiste believe that?
What are the Government's intentions on the review of the Competition Authority legislation? I understand a review has been completed on the operation of the Competition Act 2004, particularly section 4. It was understood that the Government was preparing its own legislative response to the Labour Party's Private Members' Bill. The Taoiseach indicated during the previous round of talks with the social partners that he would like the matter resolved. I refer to the use by the HSE of section 4 of the Competition Act 2004 to undermine the Trade Union Acts in order to strike down the possibility of collective representation.
Is any legislation promised?
To be constructive, I ask this question because the HSE has rolled on its abuse of the Bill from pharmacists to dentists, thereby affecting medical card holders and the general dental scheme.
I appreciate the Deputy's constructive approach. Is a competition Bill promised?
I do not believe there is one promised. There are obviously issues under discussion with the social partners that we are finding hard to resolve. The issue the Deputy raised is one the HSE feels obliged to deal with under EU competition law. People might have different views on that but that is the basis of its approach. It is not actively seeking to abuse it.
I remind the Tánaiste——
Is the Deputy making a point of order?
Yes. Legislation has been promised in three ways. It was promised by the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, and it is on the record of the House. It was indicated when opposition was mounted to the Bill in my name, and separate statements have been made to the effect that legislation would follow the review sponsored by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment.
The Chair is obliged to accept the word of the Tánaiste that no legislation is promised.
I wish him well in his new venture but the fact of the matter is that legislation in this area has been indicated. Legislation is needed before further chaos is sown not just in the Department of Health and Children, but also in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in regard to veterinary inspectors. What is happening——
We cannot debate it now.
On a point of order——
The Tánaiste wishes to——
On a point of order——
To answer the Deputy's question——
On a point of order, it is on the record of the House.
I am about to call the Deputy.
It is on the record of the House that the legislation referred to by Deputy Michael Higgins was promised.
Very good. I call the Tánaiste.
It does not matter whether the Tánaiste says it was promised or not because it is on the record.
When there is a question on promised legislation, the procedure is that the Chair asks the presiding member of the Government, whose word is taken.
The presiding member is mistaken.
To answer the question, this issue has been discussed in the social partnership context for some time. It has been indicated that seeking legislation on this matter is predicated on reaching agreement in that context. Members can bring forward legislation without agreement if they wish——
I was asked by the social partners to bring forward legislation because it was not being discussed at the social partnership talks. If the Government opens partnership talks without dealing with this matter, it should be ashamed of itself.
Allow the Tánaiste to respond without interruption.
That is the view of the Deputy. Perhaps some of the social partners brought that to his attention. For the purpose of trying to bring forward legislation, we discussed the benefits yesterday. The social partners have been trying to achieve consensus, even on the more tricky issues, and the matter in question is still under discussion. The whole process is predicated on trying to reach some agreement in this area — that is all. It is open to any Member to introduce a Private Members' Bill.
The dental scheme has gone down, the pharmacy problem continues and now the problem is to affect the vets and agriculture. The Government is just washing its hands of it.
A constituent of mine is being sued for thousands of euro in respect of management fees——
That is not in order.
It concerns legislation. Thousands of euro are owed in management fees. I looked at the apartment block where the constituent resides and noted he has a valid complaint because he is not getting the services he requires and is being overcharged.
That is not in order on the Order of Business.
He is up against a big legal team and cannot afford a legal team himself. This is happening to many apartment owners, and the Taoiseach acknowledged that they need protection.
To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
Will the Tánaiste give priority to the Bill that gives legal underpinning to the National Property Services Regulatory Authority——
I call the Tánaiste on the Property Services Regulatory Authority Bill.
——so the affected individuals will have somewhere to go for advice?
I understand the Property Services Regulatory Authority Bill is due for publication this session.
How about the two Bills required?
The loss by the Bank of Ireland of four laptops containing unencrypted private medical and financial details of over 10,000 people is one of the most recent events in a series of serious data protection breaches. Others concerned the Irish Blood Transfusion Service, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and insurance companies.
Is there a breach of legislation?
The protections contained in the existing Data Protection Acts are grossly insufficient.
Is there a promised amendment to the Data Protection Act?
Is legislation promised? Does the criminal justice (cybercrime and attacks against information systems) Bill cover this issue?
The contents of the Bill are not in order. When will the criminal justice (cybercrime and attacks against information systems) Bill be introduced?
Given that health details were lost in this case, when will the health (information) Bill, which is set to provide a legislative framework for information in the health sector, be introduced?
I understand the draft heads are being prepared for the criminal justice (cybercrime and attacks against information systems) Bill. I understand the health (information) Bill will be next year.
In light of the statement by the Minister for Foreign Affairs that he intended to give recognition to Kosovo as an independent state, what proposals does the Government have to introduce legislation or to debate the matter in the House?
Is there any proposed legislation or debate?
I do not believe there is any proposed legislation on that matter. It would be necessary to talk to the Minister for Foreign Affairs on how it is to be done.
Do we need the Minister for Foreign Affairs to go out and announce a new state?
I call Deputy Durkan.
Do I take it the Labour Party is opposed to the establishment of a new state in Kosovo?
The Tánaiste should also have regard for the Chair.
Apropos of the issue raised by Deputy Bannon, with the prospect of a serious breakdown in the delivery of pharmacy services in the country and notwithstanding what has been said——
The legislation has been asked about and that is all that is in order on the Order of Business.
My question is in order——
So far it is not.
——because the legislation is promised. It is the pharmacy(No. 2) Bill.
Which has been answered.
The Tánaiste seemed to indicate that it has nothing to do with the issue to which I refer.
However, the Bill itself has——
If the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will wait for a second, I will clarify it. It has been previously indicated in the House that this Bill cannot be introduced into the House until such time as the problem to which Deputy Bannon referred has been resolved.
The question on the pharmacy (No. 2) Bill has already been answered.
Wait a second, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. It would be very useful if the Tánaiste in his new role, which he will undertake next week and in which we wish him well, could take a particular initiative——
I call Deputy Varadkar.
——intervene in that particular area, introduce the Bill to the House and let the House discuss it. That is one issue.
It is a very interesting issue, but totally out of order.
It is not. It is on the agenda. It is promised legislation on the agenda. What are you talking about for God's sake? It is on the agenda already. On the next one——
Maybe the Deputy would take his seat and I will explain to him.
You can explain, but I know the explanation already.
Maybe he would take his seat out of courtesy to the House.
I have taken my seat.
On the Order of Business, the Deputy may ask about promised legislation. The Bill about which he has asked has already been raised by another Deputy and answered.
In a different context.
The context is not relevant and that is the ruling of the Chair. I call Deputy Varadkar.
On the second issue——
I will call the Deputy again if we have time.
I would like to refer to 13 different Bills on the legislative programme, specifically the broadcasting Bill; the employment agency regulation Bill; the electoral amendment Bill; the adoption Bill; the property services regulatory authority Bill; the Dublin transport authority Bill; the greyhound industry (amendment) Bill; the Irish sports council (amendment) Bill; the petroleum exploration and extraction (safety) Bill; the Curragh of Kildare Bill; the Údarás na Gaeltachta Bill; the education Ireland Bill; and the education (patronage) Bill.
I specifically ask about them because they all have something in common. Together these Bills propose the establishment of seven new State bodies, agencies or quangos; the extension of powers for five more; and the possibility that one will be able to set up sub-quangos in its own right. Since the Taoiseach was given the nudge out of office by some of the Members opposite, the current Tánaiste has suddenly discovered a new-found interest in public sector reform and efficiency.
The Deputy may not make a speech now.
Will the Tánaiste now withdraw these Bills?
I call the Tánaiste on that long list of legislation.
No, I will not withdraw the Bills.
All is off. There will be no reform.
I am afraid that I might be shot down on this issue also. Given that this is the last day that the Tánaiste will preside here on a Thursday morning as next week he will take over the reins of Taoiseach——
No, it is the following week.
The Deputy is ahead of himself.
He will be caretaker Taoiseach next week and will become Taoiseach the following week. Is it his intention as Taoiseach to come in here on a Thursday morning as usual to answer all our questions?
Absolutely not.
That might be a matter for the Standing Orders of the House.
Thank you, Taoiseach.
The Deputy has that clear anyway.
Will the Government provide time in which to have a debate on the worsening situation in Zimbabwe, where there is clearly a serious risk of loss of life? A number of Members from all parties in the House, including the Government parties, have signed a motion to that effect. Ireland ought to engage on the issue. I do not believe that the quiet diplomacy which has been relied on so far is helping the situation.
Is there a promised debate on this issue?
I understand the Whips are discussing the prospect of an all-party motion for that purpose.
Last November, the House introduced a statutory instrument to transfer the housing aid for the elderly programme from the HSE to local authorities. What happened to that legislation? A timeframe was given for the local authorities to be managing that programme in its entirety by now. Is the funding stream for this matter cleared up or is the funding——
It is not in order to ask about funding. Under Standing Orders the Tánaiste can revert to the Deputy if he does not have the information on secondary legislation.
I would need to revert to the Deputy.
I call Deputy Durkan briefly.
I am always brief. This relates to an issue that has been raised on numerous occasions — of which I was reminded by Deputy Finian McGrath — the escalating rate of crime. In that context this is something to which the future Taoiseach will be anxious to set his mind. When is the legislation to establish a national DNA database likely to be introduced? Alternatively, will the Tánaiste select a single item from that list read out by others already as a single indicator of how it is proposed to deal with organised gangland crime and put behind bars people who are caught?
The Deputy is referring to the criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill to provide for the establishment of a DNA database and related matters. The heads of that Bill have been approved by the Government. It is complex and technical with many aspects to it. Detailed consultations with the Garda authorities and the forensic science laboratory have resulted in some delays. I will ask the Minister to try to expedite it.