Vol. 656 No. 4
64 Deputy Fergus O’Dowd asked the Minister for Transport if he will create a single accident investigation board to examine fatal accidents involved in public transport, marine and rail, to report thereon and make recommendations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23694/08]
I have recently decided that the air accident investigation unit of my Department, the railway accident investigation unit within the Railway Safety Commission, and the Marine Casualty Investigation Board should be located together. The Government has recently accepted, as part of its decentralisation programme, that Drogheda should be the location for these functions. Furthermore, I have asked officials in my Department to look at integrating these functions and the issues arising.
The Garda investigates road traffic accidents, including those involving public transport vehicles, in accordance with the provisions of the Road Traffic Acts. I have no plans to change the statutory role of the Garda in that regard.
I welcome whatever amalgamation the Minister proposes within his Department of the existing safety reporting of air accidents, marine safety matters and so on. The stark facts are that there have been two fatal bus crashes recently, one in Kentstown, County Meath where sadly five people lost their lives and many were injured and another on Wellington Quay in Dublin in 2004 where five people also died and several more were injured. The difference between the two crashes was the way in which they were investigated. The Garda properly investigated both, but the Health and Safety Authority could only investigate the accident in Kentstown, County Meath and could not investigate the Dublin Bus accident on Wellington Quay. We need an independent authoritative examination of all accidents where there are fatalities, especially for those involving public transport. Families need closure on these issues. There is no closure for the families involved as the Dublin Bus report into the crash on Wellington Quay remains to this day unpublished. It is not acceptable that Dublin Bus refuses to publish the report. I ask the Minister to address this issue, as the former Minister for Transport, Deputy Séamus Brennan, gave a commitment to a review of safety procedures in Dublin Bus.
I thank the Deputy for his support of the decision made to create a single accident investigation unit between the air accident investigation unit of my Department, the railway accident investigation unit within the Railway Safety Commission and the Marine Casualty Investigation Board. There are no plans to have anybody other than the Garda and, where appropriate, the Health and Safety Authority investigate road traffic accidents. The accident that the Deputy adverted to was investigated fully by the Garda. It initiated a very thorough investigation which led to a court case and evidence being produced. CIE and Dublin Bus also investigated the matter very thoroughly and, as is normal in any such accident where lives have been lost, any lessons that can be learned are learned and put into practice which is the case.
I am amazed with the Minister's reply. Has the Minister for Transport sought a copy of the Dublin Bus report into that fatal accident? The answer is that he has not. What lessons have been learned following that accident? We do not know and the Minister for Transport does not know, as he has not sought a copy of the report. I have sought a copy and it has been refused to me for legal reasons. However, we have had legal problems with reports previously. The report on the accident in Kentstown will be published by Bus Éireann. The Minister has a duty of care, in the public interest, to insist Dublin Bus publishes its report into the accident on Wellington Quay. We do not know the findings of this report.
If the Minister does not set up an independent body to investigate such accidents which, unfortunately, are outside the remit of the Health and Safety Authority then we have no independent way of assessing the important resulting information. Throughout the country people who lose family members in accidents, including road traffic accidents, and where there are fatalities and serious injuries have no closure as the reports are not published. There are reports produced apart from Garda investigations. We want them all in the public domain. The Minister is failing in his duty of care if he does not set up within his Department an independent investigation unit into road traffic accidents and accidents involving private and public bus companies.
I do not agree with the Deputy on this matter. I would not impugn the Garda or its investigative abilities into road accidents.
I have not impugned the Garda. On a point of order, that is a very serious allegation.
What is the point of order?
I did not make any allegation.
The Minister said I impugned the integrity of the Garda and I said no such thing.
Has the Deputy a point of order to make?
It is not in order for the Minister to make such an allegation. I ask him to withdraw it.
The Deputy should check the record of the House. I made no allegation. I said I would not impugn the integrity of——
The implication was——
The Deputy can take any implication he likes out of what I said. I would not impugn the integrity of the Garda or its investigation of road traffic accidents.
Nor would I.
There was a full investigation of this matter by the Garda, with a prosecution and a court case. All the facts were made known. My Department has been assured by Dublin Bus that any issues arising have been dealt with fully regarding the safety of public transport.
65 Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Transport if he will support the full recommendations of the Road Safety Authority on changing the blood alcohol level for motorists; his views on proposals to have reduced or administrative penalties for first-time drink driving motoring offences or offences for blood alcohol levels between 0.5 mg and 0.8 mg; the measures he will introduce to target the increased incidence of drug driving on roads; if he has received submissions from the Medical Bureau of Road Safety in terms of the expansion of their drug driving detection programme; if he has plans to increase the funding level for the MBRS; and if he will make a statement on the matter.[23323/08]
68 Deputy Shane McEntee asked the Minister for Transport his plans to introduce a new drink driving limit and associated penalties in order to remove the uncertainty caused by recent press reports; and if he will make a statement on the matter.[23697/08]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 65 and 68 together.
The Road Safety Strategy 2007 to 2012, as approved by the Government in October 2007, identifies the need to legislate for and introduce a reduction in the legal blood alcohol content, BAC, level for drivers, but does not specify what that level should be.
The advice of the Road Safety Authority, RSA, on the lower levels was received in April and was submitted to Government. The Government noted the recommendations of the RSA and decided the advice should be published and taken into account in the preparation of legislation under the road safety strategy. The general scheme of a Bill is being prepared in my Department.
Notwithstanding that the allocation of resources to the various programmes is a matter for the Medical Bureau of Road Safety, the issue of funding for the Bureau for any one year is considered in the context of the overall funding and resources for my Department and its non-commercial state agencies for that year and any funding submissions received from those agencies. I have provided increased funding for the bureau's recent move to new premises in University College Dublin, Belfield and have also increased the bureau's staff allocation. The bureau has allocated a total of €6.42 million in 2007 and the estimates process for 2009 has not yet begun.
We know that drink driving plays a role in approximately 37% of accidents. Half of all accidents involving young men are caused by drink driving. There are lower limits in our EU partners, about which we were talking a few minutes ago. Countries like Slovenia, Poland and Sweden have a limit of 20 mg. Do the Minister and the Minister of State agree that the limit should be reduced? Is it the policy of the Government to reduce the blood alcohol limit from 80 mg to 50 mg? Will legislation be introduced in that regard? Is the Government planning to introduce reduced penalties, such as administrative penalties, for first-time drink driving offences or offences involving a blood alcohol level of between 50 mg and 80 mg? It was recently indicated in the media that the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, have gone soft on drink driving as a result of the massive vintners campaign, which is ongoing. Is that the case? In the last Dáil, the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, bitterly opposed administrative penalties for fisheries offences. Is he now proposing to provide for administrative penalties for drink driving offences?
Drug driving testing programmes have been developed in many other parts of the world, including the Australian state of Queensland. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, visited Australia to learn about projects of that nature. The drug levels of drivers can be tested at the side of the road. An insurance company, Hibernian, recently reported that approximately 20% of male drivers under the age of 35 admitted in a survey that they have driven under the influence of drugs. Does the Government have any policies in this regard? Does it intend to introduce a system of roadside drug testing? A number of companies, including at least one Irish company, have indicated that a test kit is available.
The Deputy is right to point out that Ireland's limit of 80 mg is not in line with the limits in most other countries. We have the same limit as the UK. The limit in most other European countries is 50 mg. The road safety strategy, which was launched last year, set out the Government's position in this regard.
Do the Minister and the Minister of State agree that the limit should be decreased to 50 mg? Will they introduce such a limit?
I am speaking for the Government. We are doing this on a stage-by-stage basis. We made it clear in the strategy that we will provide for a reduction. The Road Safety Authority's report, which was published recently, has been sent to and noted by the Government. We are working on the general scheme of the legislation that will make the changes.
Is it Government policy to set out a limit of 50 mg?
It is Government policy, as outlined in the strategy. I cannot——
You need to deal with that, Minister. Let us talk ordinary English.
We are talking ordinary.
I ask Deputy Broughan to address his comments through the Chair.
I apologise.
The Deputy should allow the Minister of State to respond to the many questions he asked.
I have mentioned the Government's strategy. We are now preparing legislation. That will be brought to the Government in the coming period.
I also asked about drug driving.
Having dealt with the issue of drugs when I was based in another Department, I know what Deputy Broughan is concerned about and I fully support his remarks. I accept that prototype tests are available in some countries, including Australia. However, we do not have a feasible basis for doing that in Ireland. I would like to get to that stage. The old regime, whereby a garda has to form the opinion that a person is incapable of driving, is still in place. We are considering the possibilities in this regard. The Medical Bureau of Road Safety is keeping up to date with the research into what is available. There are various prototypes in certain parts of the world. There is no agreed basis for doing that here. We are considering the inclusion in the proposed legislation of a scheme that would help a garda to form an opinion that somebody is incapable of driving.
I would like to ask a final question.
I will call the Deputy after Deputy McEntee has asked some questions.
Any road safety measures introduced by the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, will get the full support of Fine Gael. I would like to comment on a distasteful report in a newspaper last Monday week. It seems that someone wanted to ascertain the response to the idea that drink drivers be given administrative penalties instead of being put off the road, in the context of a reduction in the limit from 80 mg to 50 mg. We cannot afford to play politics on this subject. I certainly will not do so. I came in for a lot of flak when I spoke in a direct and straight manner about this matter. I ask the Minister to face up to the problem. We cannot afford to lose lives.
The newspaper report that the Government is considering a change may be refuted. Was it mere speculation, designed to see what would happen? Did those who made the suggestion want to see if there would be an outcry from the public or from publicans? I accept that the publicans lobby does a good job. The changes which have been made in the interests of road safety represent part of the reason for the demise of rural life and pub life. We should have a proper debate on the matter. Young people are not fools — if they can buy a can of Carlsberg for €1, they will not spend €4 on it in the pub next door. Such matters need to be considered. It is not the case that the reduction in the drink driving limit is the only reason for the diminishing of rural life.
As Fine Gael's road safety spokesperson, I will support the Government in this regard if it does a good job. It seems that the number of road deaths is beginning to decrease. We should not play politics of the kind that was played in a newspaper last Monday week. We are lucky that the Road Safety Authority is still intact. I do not know who caused this story to appear in the newspaper. I do not know what the idea was. If that is the way politics is going, it is not very nice. The Government should say what it intends to do. We will debate it and support it if it deserves support. The Government should not wait until after the local elections. The longer it waits, the more people will be killed.
I saw the newspaper article in question. I know nothing about it. That did not come from us. Policy is made by the Government, rather than by the newspapers. There was a brief discussion on this matter during the debate on the Estimates this day last week. It was suggested that a committee should consider this matter and make a submission to the Department. I have outlined the options. No decision has been made. We do not have a definite frame of mind on it yet. We intend to introduce a lower limit, perhaps of 50 mg. That would be a new trend. While our limit of 80 mg is not in line with that of most countries, it is not the case that other countries always disqualify drivers who are found to be over the limit. We are examining what is done abroad when drivers are found to have a level of between 50 mg and 80 mg. In many cases, the penalty that is imposed is a fine or some penalty points. We would like to hear from those who have a view on the matter, including the committee and individual Deputies. The issue is whether we should disqualify everyone who is found to be over the limit. We need to consider whether it might be more appropriate to provide for a fine or some penalty points, or a combination of the two, in some instances. We have to make a decision on the matter. Anyone with a view on it should make it known. If the committee wants to make its voice heard, I would like to hear from it.
I agree with my Fine Gael colleague on the issue of administrative penalties. The report in the Irish Independent was so detailed that it had to have come from a source in the Department or the Government. Has the proposal to impose administrative penalties, rather than the traditional penalty of disqualification, been discussed with the Road Safety Authority and the Garda Síochána? The report indicated that people who are found to be just over the limit, or those who are convicted of a first offence, can argue that there were mitigating circumstances. In his previous position, the Minister argued bitterly against administrative penalties in the case of fisheries offences. It could be argued that such offences are much less serious than offences which lead to horrific road collisions. Has this proposal been discussed? I agree that it would be useful to discuss it at committee level. Deputies O’Dowd and McEntee and I have been discussing these matters with the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, for the past year. People would like a decision to be made at this stage. The Government seems to be rowing back — it is not telling us what it intends to do.
I would like to ask about the Medical Bureau of Road Safety. The Minister of State does not seem to be familiar with some of the issues. Some Australian states, such as Victoria, Tasmania and Queensland, have roadside drug testing. The population of Ireland is similar to that of Queensland and at least 6,000 people were tested there last year. It is happening in other jurisdictions. The Minister, Deputy Dempsey, travelled to Australia not that long ago to get these exact details. Is it not the case that the Minister of State is, at least in this sense, inadvertently misleading the House? Also, is it not true that the Medical Bureau of Road Safety asked the previous Government for more resources in order to provide comprehensive drink and drug roadside testing? Why are we still waiting for it at this stage?
I welcome the Minister of State's final comment that, at the end of the day, none of us wants to be the bad boys but we want to ensure our roads are safer. I welcome the idea that everyone should be brought together on this issue. I ask that the Minister of State confirm again that it is his intention to bring interested parties together, including the Road Safety Authority, to debate this issue. He should do so now and not wait until three or four years time when more people will have died.
The provision of roadside testing devices is at prototype stage. The Medical Bureau of Road Safety is keeping abreast of developments in this regard. I am aware such devices are available in Australia and wish they were the norm here. The medical bureau is following up on the matter. I look forward to these devices being accepted in Europe and recommended for use here.
On administrative penalties, I had no hand, act or part in the matter which the Deputy said was covered in the newspapers last week. I knew nothing about the matter until I read the article. There is nothing new about administrative fines. They are provided for in earlier legislation but are not yet being enforced. We must decide whether a person found guilty of driving with between 50mg and 80mg of alcohol in their bloodstream should be disqualified from driving or awarded penalty points, which in some cases, depending on how many penalty points one has accrued, could disqualify a person from driving anyway.
Has the Minister of State discussed the matter with Noel Brett, Gay Byrne and the Road Safety Authority?
We have received the Deputy's recommendation. The Department is considering the matter and will shortly bring legislation to Government.
66 Deputy Fergus O’Dowd asked the Minister for Transport his views on whether funding promised for sub-programmes implemented by his Department under the National Development Plan 2007-2013 will be delivered and implemented in full; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23695/08]
The transport programme in the National Development Plan 2007-2013 provides for a total investment of €32.9 billion over seven years and identifies the Government's priorities for investment in roads, public transport, airports and ports sectors.
In 2007, expenditure under the NDP transport programme exceeded its projected level by €178 million. The Exchequer provision for the transport sector in 2008 is in line with the projections used for the NDP. I should also add that the funding provided for the first three years of Transport 21 is in line with the originally agreed profile of expenditure.
The Government has repeatedly indicated that the national development plan, of which Transport 21 is a part, is its top priority and that, even in difficult economic circumstances, its objective will be to continue to provide the funding necessary to support its implementation.
I thank the Minister for his reply. Can the Minister give me a categorical assurance that there will be no change to the timetables of any of the programmes under Transport 21 and that none of them will be taken off the list? In particular, will he refute the rumour in regard to metro north? What is the position in respect of metro north, metro west and the Luas lines? Will they be constructed as planned?
The Minister stated that expenditure by his Department last year was on target. However, in December 2007, the Minister moved €51.4 million from the public transport investment programme into other projects. Will the Minister assure me that will not happen this year?
I cannot give the Deputy that assurance. The budget of almost €33 billion in respect of Transport 21 is a multi-annual package which ensures funding for a project which does not commence on time owing to planning delays and so on will not be returned to the Exchequer at the end of the year as is the position in regard to unspent departmental funding. I cannot assure the Deputy that money will not be moved around within Transport 21.
The sum referred to by the Deputy was taken from the public transport programme and reallocated to future projects under Transport 21. The Department has an envelope of almost €33 billion which will be spent. It is my duty and that of my Department to ensure moneys not spent in a particular area are reallocated to another area.
The Deputy asked specifically if there have been any indicative changes to the timetables of metro north or metro west? No such changes have been made, bearing in mind cutbacks in other areas and so on. I have said on a number of occasions that the original timetable for Transport 21 is indicative. Where issues arise, money will be moved around. The completion date for the entire metro west project remains at 2014. The project has been identified as a public private partnership project. The Railway Procurement Agency, RPA, indicated, when announcing the preferred route alignment, the possibility of it being implemented on a phased basis and this will be discussed with the prospective PPP bidders.
The scheduled completion date for metro north is 2013. This takes into account the additional planning work required by the scope changes made arising from the public consultation process. The projected completion date for Lucan Luas is 2013. An overlap between metro north and the DART extension might result in a delay in this regard. However, the position is not yet clear. I cannot provide totally reliable completion dates until the tendering process is completed.
The Minister referred to money being moved around and to issues that could affect projects. Obviously, the issues concerned are outside the Minister's remit. However, can he give us a categorical assurance today that no cutbacks or changes to timetables for construction will be made by his Department? That is the key question, particularly in respect of metro north.
Will the Minister state whether public transport projects outside the greater Dublin area, GDA, in particular, the western rail corridor, the €90 million for rural transport initiatives and new commuter rail services in Cork and Galway, will be delivered on time and on target?
I think what the Deputy is asking is if, as of today, there are proposals to defer any of these projects on the basis of the current financial situation. I can categorically state that as of today there are no such proposals.
67 Deputy Fergus O’Dowd asked the Minister for Transport his views on the use of zero emissions personal transport and utility vehicles as outlined in the recent discussion document, Electric Transport and the Role of Government by Green Machines and GreenAer Mobility; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23696/08]
The document referred to was only received in my Department on 12 June and is still under consideration. The range of fiscal incentives and infrastructural measures suggested in the document are more appropriate to the Ministers for Finance and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Nevertheless, the potential of electric cars is something that will have to be availed of as part of a range of measures to deliver a sustainable transport system for Ireland. The Deputy will be aware I am committed to bringing a sustainable travel and transport action plan to Government this year and I expect that the issue of electric vehicles will be addressed in that context.
I welcome the Minister's final comments. The report sets out the benefits of electric cars which, as the Minister will be aware have zero emissions, cause less pollution, are almost noiseless and promote environmental awareness. Notwithstanding the fact the Minister received the document only last week, this matter should be on top of the green city agenda and the green city for change programme. We must get people out of their cars and into either public transport or electric vehicles as discussed. Some of the key points the Minister might respond to are the use of bus lanes, free parking designated areas and, in particular, the recommendation concerning recharging stations where appropriate in centre city locations. That would greatly encourage the use of electric vehicles.
We received the discussion document last week. Some of the ideas contained in it had already been submitted to the Department as part of the sustainable transport and travel action plan and we shall consider each one carefully. Many of the issues mentioned by the Deputy are not directly within our remit. Following the 500 submissions we received we are endeavouring to engage with other Departments, some of which will be directly involved, such as the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Department of Finance and others. We aim to produce a document that will highlight the best of these ideas. The Deputy is right to say that the benefits of the electric car are very attractive from an environmental point of view and the matter will receive careful consideration.
I welcome what the Minister said concerning a proactive approach across all Departments. As Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey should take the lead in this. The role of local government will be critical, as was clearly identified in the report, particularly regarding the purchase of many of the service vehicles used in cities and urban areas.
That concludes Priority Questions.
Question No. 68 answered with Question No. 65.
