Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 Jul 2008

Vol. 658 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 11, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the International Convention against Doping; No. 12, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the agreement on social security between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the Republic of Korea; No. 20, Chemicals Bill 2008 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 1, Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — Amendments from the Seanad; and No. 21, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed) to be taken not later than 8.30 p.m. and, the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight, that business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. and that Nos. 11 and 12 be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 45, motion re fishing industry.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight agreed?

Deputy Simon Coveney

No. Last Thursday afternoon, the Minister of State, Deputy Máire Hoctor, misled the House, whether deliberately or not, I do not know. However, she misled the House in response to questions regarding the Hawlbowline site in Cork harbour and the content of that site in terms of toxic and hazardous waste.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business to provide for an extra 40 minutes after 10 p.m. to allow the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, to correct the record or for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to make a statement on the issue.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I support Deputy Coveney's proposal. Deputies who were in the House last Thursday afternoon will be aware five requests were made to the Ceann Comhairle for a Minister to come into the House to explain what was going on in Ringaskiddy. The quality of the response received was wanting. Questions raised by the community of the harbour area were not answered. I note the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is present in the House. It is urgent and critical that the community is assured, in terms of what is being done by Cork County Council and the Environmental Protection Agency to address what is an obvious health hazard in the Cork Harbour region, that the matter is being dealt with.

The Taoiseach

The Department's remit is to facilitate a thorough investigation of the site and to report to Government thereon to allow for a Government decision on the future use of the site. The Minister will report the outcome of this exercise to Government in the coming months.

In the meantime, a contractor engaged in interim surface clearance works disturbed a quantity of hazardous material on the east tip. In defiance of instructions from the Department the contractor persisted with unauthorised works and it ultimately became necessary to terminate his contract. The Department's instructions, which were endorsed by the Environmental Protection Agency, were designed to prevent any further piecemeal unauthorised works which could have unknown environmental consequences.

The matter is being handled by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister has met with people from the area and has explained to them the situation in terms of the information available. He will report on the matter to Government as soon as the report, in respect of the site which has existed for 30 years, becomes available.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal re the late sitting agreed?

Deputy Michael Creed

We need to have a debate on the matter in the House.

(Interruptions).

Deputy David Stanton

Another cover-up.

Deputy Michael Creed

The Ceann Comhairle cannot allow a cover-up like that. The public's health is being affected.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan

There is no regard for the citizens of Cork.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with the late sitting be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 79; Níl, 53.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Andrews, Barry.
• Andrews, Chris.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Aylward, Bobby.
• Behan, Joe.
• Blaney, Niall.
• Brady, Áine.
• Brady, Cyprian.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Browne, John.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Carey, Pat.
• Collins, Niall.
• Conlon, Margaret.
• Connick, Seán.
• Coughlan, Mary.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cregan, John.
• Cuffe, Ciarán.
• Cullen, Martin.
• Curran, John.
• Devins, Jimmy.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Finneran, Michael.
• Fitzpatrick, Michael.
• Fleming, Seán.
• Flynn, Beverley.
• Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
• Gogarty, Paul.
• Gormley, John.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Harney, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Healy-Rae, Jackie.
• Hoctor, Máire.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kelly, Peter.
• Kenneally, Brendan.
• Kennedy, Michael.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Kitt, Michael P.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Mansergh, Martin.
• McEllistrim, Thomas.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moloney, John.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Nolan, M. J.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• O’Brien, Darragh.
• O’Connor, Charlie.
• O’Dea, Willie.
• O’Flynn, Noel.
• O’Hanlon, Rory.
• O’Keeffe, Batt.
• O’Keeffe, Edward.
• O’Sullivan, Christy.
• Power, Peter.
• Power, Seán.
• Roche, Dick.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Sargent, Trevor.
• Scanlon, Eamon.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Treacy, Noel.
• Wallace, Mary.
• White, Mary Alexandra.
• Woods, Michael.

Níl

• Bannon, James.
• Barrett, Seán.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Ulick.
• Burton, Joan.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Carey, Joe.
• Coonan, Noel J.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• D’Arcy, Michael.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Enright, Olwyn.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Flanagan, Terence.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Hayes, Brian.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Lynch, Ciarán.
• Lynch, Kathleen.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McManus, Liz.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Morgan, Arthur.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O’Donnell, Kieran.
• O’Dowd, Fergus.
• O’Keeffe, Jim.
• O’Sullivan, Jan.
• Penrose, Willie.
• Perry, John.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reilly, James.
• Ring, Michael.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Sheahan, Tom.
• Sheehan, P. J.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Upton, Mary.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Simon Coveney

On a point of order, it is a long-standing precedent in the House that when a Member misleads the Dáil, whether deliberately or not, he or she is given the next available opportunity to correct the record. I understand it is a judgment call for the Ceann Comhairle. I ask the Ceann Comhairle now to give the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, an opportunity to correct the record on what she said last Thursday.

An Ceann Comhairle

The position is clear. If Deputy Coveney has a specific allegation to make about any Member of the House, it is open to him to put down a substantive motion and have it dealt with in that way. There are also a number of other ways in which this matter can be raised. If Deputy Coveney wishes to raise a matter, either on the Adjournment or by way of a Private Notice Question——

(Interruptions).

Deputy Simon Coveney

I have already put down a matter on the Adjournment but it was not accepted.

An Ceann Comhairle

——in that event the matter will be considered. Personal statements are a matter for individual Members, who may contact my office.

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 11 and 12 without debate agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I may raise——

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

On a point of order——

An Ceann Comhairle

If it is a point of order, yes. Is it a point of order?

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

There would appear to be an accusation that a Minister has misled the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have indicated to Deputy Coveney the way in which that matter must be addressed.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

This is quite a serious allegation.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The Minister of State needs to clarify whether this was intentional or unintentional.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have set out the procedure for the House in reply to Deputy Coveney——

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

What the Minister of State said last Thursday afternoon may not have been correct.

An Ceann Comhairle

——-and I ask the Deputy to respect that. Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

With respect, this needs to be clarified.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny

This is a serious matter and I would like to take it a little further on the Order of Business, if I may. A number of questions were asked of the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, last week. Deputy Lynch asked whether a notice at Haulbowline indicated that it was safe and Deputy Hoctor replied "I have just explained that there is no notice because there is no health risk". The Taoiseach has responsibility for this matter. The dumped materials at Haulbowline include mercury, lead, chromium 6, zinc and PCBs.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot let Deputy Kenny go into this now.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Deputy Coveney and others requested a 40 minute extension of business tonight to allow the Minister, Deputy Gormley, the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, and anyone else to clear this up. I do not want to see people accused of scaremongering over something that is potentially very serious. I am sure the Government does not want people to be so worried that they will call for public inquiries and make claims relating to dumped materials.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is Deputy Kenny asking for asking for additional time to debate this matter?

Deputy Enda Kenny

It would be in everyone's interest if the Taoiseach would respond on this Order of Business by granting extra time to allow the Minister, Deputy Gormley, the Minister of State, Deputy Hoctor, and anyone else who wishes to contribute to do so. This is a reasonable suggestion. I have another question to ask when this is dealt with.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The difficulty here arises from the fact that the questions on Thursday were addressed to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, who, I understand, was in Cork on Thursday and went fundraising in Kerry later in the day.

Deputy John Gormley

We do not take corporate donations.

Deputy Billy Timmins

They say they do not take corporate donations.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

This is one of the most serious environmental problems to have emerged for some time and people living in the vicinity in Cork are concerned by the risks to their health. I understand an independent environmental report was prepared for Cork County Council as far back as 2005. This report was submitted to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government but seems to have been buried.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that now and Deputy Gilmore must confine himself to a question on whether there will be a debate.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

I support the proposal that there should be additional time this evening for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to provide answers for the people of Cork. If he wishes to do this now I would be very happy.

Deputy Alan Shatter

A year ago he would have visited the area to look at the issue.

Deputy Simon Coveney

On the same issue, this afternoon the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government met representatives of the residents in Ringaskiddy.

Deputy John Gormley

I have not met them yet; I am meeting them later.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

He did not wish to mislead the House.

Deputy Damien English

Then the Taoiseach misled the House when he said the Minister had met the representatives of the residents.

Deputy Simon Coveney

In that context, is it not appropriate——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow Deputy Coveney to speak without interruption.

Deputy Simon Coveney

This is potentially the most serious environmental disaster the Government has had to deal with. People are working only 200 to 300 yds from this site and must face the potential health consequences of dust blowing from it.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into this now.

Deputy Simon Coveney

We in this House have a right to ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to correct incorrect statements made last week on his behalf by a Minister of State who was not adequately briefed. We want a 40 minute debate on this matter and that is not unreasonable.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The Ceann Comhairle presided over this debate last Thursday and many have commented on the quality of the response we received. The Minister could have addressed the issue in this House or he could have gone to Haulbowline and called on the county manager and the CEO of the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, to join him and see what could be done.

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it the Deputy is raising the question of a debate.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

The Minister is to meet residents this afternoon and I welcome that but he should also tell us in this House what is to happen.

Deputy David Stanton

The Naval Service is located near the relevant area; does the Minister for Defence have a view on this matter? This is an extremely serious issue. I live in the area and have had calls from residents who are very concerned about the high levels of chromium 6 and mercury that have been known for years but covered up. I ask the Taoiseach to publish the reports on this matter immediately so people's fears can be allayed. Will the Minister make a statement in the House this evening on the matter? This is extremely serious, why is it being covered up? Why is the Minister running and hiding?

Deputy John Gormley

I am here.

Deputy David Stanton

He should make a statement. He is not being a public representative. What is he hiding? People are genuinely afraid and there is a cover-up on this matter. Cancer levels are very high in the harbour area.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I inform Deputy Stanton that I have called on Deputy Creed. When the Ceann Comhairle stands Deputy Stanton must sit.

Deputy Michael Ring

So much for the green Minister — he has gone yellow again.

Deputy Michael Creed

On the same issue——

Deputy Paul Kehoe

The Minister should make a statement and answer questions in the House.

Deputy Simon Coveney

A Deputy is suggesting this is our fault.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

He is not behaving like a Cork man. He should support the residents

Deputy Michael Creed

The Taoiseach and Minister for Defence will be aware that PDFORRA, the representative body for members of the Naval Service working at Haulbowline, has expressed concern about the safety of its members working close to this site. This issue relates to a threat to them, local residents and marine wildlife and is of the utmost importance. The Taoiseach should avail of the opportunity to restore the relevance of this House and facilitate a debate on the matter.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

Some people in this House think this is an issue that can be laughed at but it is quite serious. Three reports were carried out on this matter since 2004 and the Minister, though he inherited this problem, has access to them.

Deputy John Gormley

I inherited the problem from the Labour Party.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

The Minister must explain that comment.

Deputy Willie Penrose

The Minister is the ultimate buffoon.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is Deputy Lynch supporting the request for a debate on this?

Deputy Billy Kelleher

Deputy Bruton sold it for £1.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

The Minister for smugness says he inherited this issue from the Labour Party. I note that the people laughing are not from Cork but they are on the Government back benches and should know better. Will the Minister release the three reports that are in his possession and have been at his Department since 2004? I ask him to discuss the matter in this House with those elected to represent the people involved rather than continue with the stupid carry-on that has prevailed for the past two weeks.

The Taoiseach

The Minister is trying to deal with this situation appropriately. He is meeting residents this evening and will provide the information he has available to him. An adjournment matter on this issue has been accepted in the Seanad and he will speak on it tonight.

Deputy Paul Gogarty

Deputies should not laugh at the Seanad.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please allow the Taoiseach to finish.

A Deputy

He is some green Minister.

An Ceann Comhairle

Can we understand one thing here?

Deputy Michael Creed

The Minister is "Mighty Mouse" in the Seanad.

An Ceann Comhairle

Several Deputies have asked for a debate on this issue which has been raised legitimately on the Order of Business.

Deputy Seán Barrett

There is no point in opening the gates at the weekend if we cannot get answers here today.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have given every Member an opportunity to make points. Some of them have been repetitive. The Taoiseach is attempting to reply to all of the points raised in the context of whether the Order of Business should be amended. I ask that he be allowed to do so, with silence from Deputies.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Taoiseach

As I said, the Minister, Deputy Gormley, is meeting the residents this evening.

Deputy Michael Creed

We have heard that part.

The Taoiseach

He is open to providing information and giving whatever answers he can, in response to residents' questions, based on the information available. As I said, the action taken by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, in terminating the contract of the contractor involved in unauthorised works, has been endorsed by the Environmental Protection Agency. One would hope people could take confidence from the fact that such an independent agency is in agreement with the Department's actions. The Department is preparing a report on legacy issues which have affected the site since the 1930s and hopes to be in a position to submit to the Government a comprehensive appraisal of the best way of remediating the site. That initiative has been taken by the Minister, rather than by any of his predecessors.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

That is an awful thing to say about Deputy Roche.

The Taoiseach

The Minister should be given some credit for seeking to deal with the matter.

Deputy Damien English

He was forced last week to do something about it.

The Taoiseach

He will address the concerns raised by the residents of the area by providing whatever information he can at this evening's meeting. The work that will enable us to consider how best to deal with the situation is proceeding.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Why is he not prepared to come in here to answer questions?

Deputy Damien English

The Taoiseach knows more about——

The Taoiseach

At no stage——

Deputy David Stanton

From what is the Minister running away?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let the Taoiseach finish.

Deputy Damien English

Will the Taoiseach take the questions?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy does not determine the order of the House. He might like to, but he does not. At no stage has the Minister been playing down the issues involved such as the potential hazards if the site is not treated in the proper way. As Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, he is aware of his responsibilities. He will meet the residents this evening to reassure them. In the meantime, perhaps we can arrange for the Whips to see if there is time——

Deputy Paul Kehoe

We can do it tonight.

The Taoiseach

Excuse me.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to let the Taoiseach finish.

The Taoiseach

The Government orders the business.

Deputy Damien English

We agree to it.

The Taoiseach

If people have genuine concerns, we will try to accommodate them.

Deputy Michael Ring

Good man.

The Taoiseach

I will not be told what way we will do it. We will do it on the basis of what is agreed when the Whips sit down and have a sensible discussion. If there is room for a one hour debate in the morning, we will have no problem dealing with the matter. We should deal with it calmly and let the Minister get on with his job as he sees fit.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Damien English

That is not what the Taoiseach said half an hour ago.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand Deputy Kenny wishes to raise another issue on the Order of Business.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The Broadcasting Bill 2008 which is before the Seanad is due to be presented in this House at some stage. Will we be given an opportunity to——

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Members leaving the Chamber to allow Deputy Kenny to proceed without interruption.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Will we have an opportunity to receive the report on cross-ownership in respect of broadcasting?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot hear a thing.

Deputy Enda Kenny

They are a little enthusiastic, a Cheann Comhairle.

Deputy Damien English

The Chair should ring the bell.

An Ceann Comhairle

That should do it.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Bang the bell. The Broadcasting Bill 2008 is due to be presented in this House when the Seanad has finished dealing with it. The Tánaiste received a report yesterday from Mr. Paul Sreenan, SC, on cross-ownership of media outlets and the need for definitions, etc. Will it be possible for the report to be published and made available to Members before the Dáil considers the Broadcasting Bill?

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I remind Members in the lobby that it is not gossips' corner. Deputy Kenny has to be allowed to proceed without interruption.

Deputy Billy Timmins

They are not listening.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

The Taoiseach's colleague is the biggest offender.

Deputy David Stanton

Jackie, move on outside.

Deputy Billy Timmins

We could not get him in last week, but now we cannot get him out.

Deputy Enda Kenny

It might interest the Ceann Comhairle to know that Deputy Healy-Rae and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, are discussing the back end of the Garda station in Caherciveen.

An Ceann Comhairle

Do not mind that. That will take care of itself.

Deputy Enda Kenny

There is a need for an extension there.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

The children were much better behaved at the weekend.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I asked the Taoiseach about the report on cross-ownership of media outlets which Mr. Sreenan, SC, gave to the Tánaiste yesterday. It is relevant to the Broadcasting Bill which will be considered in this House after it has been discussed in the Seanad. Can I take it that the report will be published as soon as the Government has dealt with it? Will it be published before the Dáil considers the Broadcasting Bill?

The Taoiseach

It is unlikely that such a large report which has just arrived on the Minister's desk and will have to be considered by the Minister, her departmental officials and perhaps her legal advisers will be released in the near future. We will have to decide what the Government will do with it. It is a question of ensuring the Government is informed on these matters. That will take time. I do not think it will be sorted out within the timescale mentioned.

Deputy Liz McManus

Is the Taoiseach saying the Broadcasting Bill will be brought before the House before it rises for the summer? If not, surely there is plenty of time to consider the report in advance of its publication and the Dáil debate on it.

The Taoiseach

I am being asked to anticipate the Tánaiste's consideration of a report that she received last night. I cannot give any undertaking that it will be published before any broadcasting Bill is considered.

Deputy Liz McManus

The Taoiseach is arguing that it will take time. I am merely pointing out that if the Broadcasting Bill is not brought before the House next week and it looks like it will not, the Tánaiste will have until the end of the summer — the beginning of the next session — to carry out her deliberations and get the report into the public arena. It does not make any sense to withhold it.

The Taoiseach

That will be a matter for the Tánaiste.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

What are the plans for the business of the Dáil next week? What legislation, if any, will be dealt with? What are the arrangements for the debate on the economy? I understand the Government intends to put a motion before the House. Which Minister will introduce that motion? Can the Taoiseach confirm that there will be such a motion?

The Taoiseach

The motion on the economy will be in the name of the Minister for Finance. The House will also consider the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008.

Deputy Pat Carey

There will be ordinary business, including questions, etc.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

Can we have a debate on the revelation than an archaeologist's report was changed by the National Roads Authority before the report on the N3 was submitted to the Minister for Transport? If it were the case that the archaeologist's findings were completely disrupted by NRA officials, it would be a serious matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is not even a chance that the Deputy's question is remotely approaching being in order.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

I am only asking for a debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

I know, but I have to say no.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

Can the Chief Whip say whether there will be a debate on the matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a winner.

Deputy Arthur Morgan

It is a serious issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I know it is, but the Deputy cannot get into it now.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

He should take a new route.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

Hundreds of disabled children in my constituency and throughout the country are being sent home from school and told not to come back in September.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

The Chair may not go into it, but I intend to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can do so in a different way.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

I am about to get to the question.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can table an Adjournment debate matter if she wishes.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

It is wrong that the children in question will be deprived of a service this September.

Deputy Alan Shatter

Hear, hear.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

They have been told to go home and stay there. The HSE has seen fit to use the money needed for the palliative care of disabled children to prop up its own inefficiencies.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question on relevant legislation?

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

I find it bizarre and indefensible that the Government has decided to target its cutbacks on dying and disabled children.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

Will a Supplementary Estimate be introduced to fund these services? Will the Minister for Health and Children take action before the Dáil rises for the summer?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

Will she reassure the parents of the children in question that their children will receive services in September?

An Ceann Comhairle

There is another way of raising the matter.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

It is wrong to allow these cutbacks to happen.

Deputy Enda Kenny

It is disgraceful.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

It is wrong that they should be the first to be targeted.

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy Mitchell attempts to raise the matter on the Adjournment, it will be looked on favourably.

Deputy Olwyn Enright

We have no voice.

Deputy Michael Creed

When will the promised animal welfare Bill be published? Can the Taoiseach assure the House that traditional country pursuits such as hunting, fishing and shooting will not be threatened by the Green Party agenda in the context of that legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter.

Deputy Michael Creed

I would like to raise a second matter. Can the Ceann Comhairle give details of the progress made with the establishment of structures of accountability? His office undertook to investigate the development of non-elected quangos such as the NRA which are not accountable to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Michael Creed

Structures should be in place to provide answers to questions such as that asked by Deputy Morgan about an NRA issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.

Deputy Michael Creed

Has any progress been made, a Cheann Comhairle?

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot go into that matter now.

The Taoiseach

The animal welfare Bill is the subject of public consultation. Deputy Creed can articulate his views at that forum.

Deputy Michael Creed

When is it expected that the Bill will be published?

The Taoiseach

We will see how long the public consultation process which is the first phase takes.

Deputy Michael Creed

Will the Bill be published in 2008?

Deputy Enda Kenny

When is the shooting season?

Deputy James Reilly

I wish to raise two matters. I asked last week whether the proposed health information Bill would give the Health Information and Quality Authority the teeth to enforce standards in hospitals, especially in the context of the €500 million litigation coming down the line.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot get into the contents of legislation.

Deputy James Reilly

Does that Taoiseach accept that if we continue to ignore the situation at Haulbowline, we will be looking at medical and legal claims worth billions of euro?

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Taoiseach to confine his response to the legislation.

Deputy James Reilly

I would like to raise a second matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I hope it has to do with a second Bill.

Deputy James Reilly

Given that over 40% of dentists no longer participate in the general medical service scheme, when does the Government intend to introduce the dental Bill? Are there any plans to address this situation in the Bill?

The Taoiseach

The health information Bill will be introduced next year. There is no date for the dental Bill.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

In view of the likely impact of the economic downturn on home owners, when will the building societies (amendment) Bill be brought before the House in order to get an opinion from Government backbenchers who might have an interest in the issue?

The Taoiseach

Later this year.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I have another question. The electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill has been vaguely promised, with a long list of proposed legislation. Is it intended to bring it before the House soon? There is a need to give clarity to the issues encompassed with a view to restoring confidence in the sector.

The Taoiseach

Last Thursday the Tánaiste said there was no date fixed for publication of the Bill.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Maybe——

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no maybe about it. The Deputy has received a reply.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The Tánaiste spoke last Thursday. I am interested to hear what the Taoiseach has to say today. The Bill will take considerable time to complete and is very important. It refers to the separation———

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Burton.

Deputy Joan Burton

What is the position on the Law Reform Commission report on management companies? The report produced a prototype Bill for the organisation of owner-managed companies. The Taoiseach said on previous occasions that there was an interdepartmental high level committee of Ministers working on the issue. There are tens of thousands of young people, many facing negative equity——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Joan Burton

——paying heavy rip-off management company charges——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has said that before. We cannot go into the matter now.

Deputy Joan Burton

There is also a report from the National Consumer Agency. Can the Taoiseach give the House an indication of his thinking on the matter? The Law Reform Commission has actually attached a prototype Bill for the governance of owner-managed companies. Does the Taoiseach intend to use that Bill? I have a second question if the Taoiseach would answer the first one.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask both of them now because we are trying to take things in order.

Deputy Joan Burton

I refer to the debate next week on the economy and the national development plan. I have asked about this issue on previous occasions. What information will be supplied to the Opposition? There will be a press conference tomorrow for the media but there is nothing for the Opposition. I wish to know, in particular, about elements of the national development plan such as the public private partnerships included, many of which are now in a parlous financial state.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Joan Burton

I am sorry. For us to do our business, it is not just a matter of coming in here and second-guessing——

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow a speech on the matter now, as the Deputy understands.

Deputy Joan Burton

We are entitled to some level of co-operation from the Minister for Finance regarding this important debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will move on. The Taoiseach will speak on the legislation, the management companies Bill.

The Taoiseach

The Bill has been dealt with by the interdepartmental committee which has not yet come back with a solution to the problem, although I understand it met again recently. The Exchequer returns will be published tomorrow in keeping with normal practice. The Department of Finance team will answer whatever questions the media have for it. That will be——

Deputy Joan Burton

I wish to know if it will answer our questions.

The Taoiseach

That is not the normal practice, as the Deputy knows.

Deputy Joan Burton

How do we get answers to questions? The Minister very rarely comes in to the House.

The Taoiseach

We agreed some weeks ago to extend the sittings of the House to accommodate the debate. The Minister for Finance will come to the House and it will be an opportunity for everybody to discuss the situation based on the information and range of data that will be available, from the Exchequer returns, the Central Bank's quarterly bulletin and CSO reports. The Government will make its decision on the basis of those figures. We have heard enough criticism of us for not coming to the House but we will be in the Chamber next week to set out the position according to the Minister for Finance. That is what the people expect.

Deputy Joan Burton

Will it include information on proposed public private partnerships? Will it include information from the National Treasury Management Agency and the Central Bank on the financial stability of many of those——

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the debate. The Deputy cannot monopolise the Order of Business in this fashion. It is not fair to other Deputies.

Deputy Olwyn Enright

The Minister for Social and Family Affairs was first out of the traps yesterday before the Exchequer returns have even been published to tell us what we knew, that in the current climate——

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?

Deputy Olwyn Enright

I do. The Minister said there would be no budgetary cuts in her Department. Can the Taoiseach confirm if, in addition, the programme for Government commitments made in respect of that Department will be fulfilled?

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot allow that question.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Why not?

Deputy Olwyn Enright

That is a surprise.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputies know why.

Deputy Seán Barrett

When we come back in October, will there be a package of real Dáil reform available to us?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now either. We shall move on.

Deputy Seán Barrett

It is a legitimate question.

The Taoiseach

Dáil reform is a matter for all parties in the House and the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Chief Whip, having taken up that position in recent weeks, will obviously consider what ideas are current. It is important to point out that Dáil reform must be about improving the workings of the House, not trying to find ways in which——

Deputy Damien English

The Taoiseach knows it is not about that.

The Taoiseach

——the House can continue with theatrics or engage in them unnecessarily and beyond its dignity.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

We published proposals. The Taoiseach should give us a suite of options.

The Taoiseach

This matters if we are interested in Dáil reform but Dáil reform is usually a code for how we can continue the tennis match that takes place here every day.

Deputy Damien English

Give us a chance.

The Taoiseach

If we are interested in proper Dáil reform, let us talk about the issue and have a proper discussion. I would have no problem with that.

Deputy Seán Barrett

That is what I meant.

The Taoiseach

I know that is what the Deputy meant and that is why I answered him on the same subject.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

I know the Deputy's party has proposals on reform but there must be all-party agreement.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is enough tennis at Wimbledon.

Deputy Richard Bruton

According to what the Taoiseach said, the Estimates for 2009 will provide for several cutbacks and, presumably, some increases. He told the Opposition that he would welcome an input and constructive suggestions on how money should be spent. Will he change the Estimates procedure in order that this can happen? Otherwise what will happen is that the Government will come with its list of cutbacks on budget day——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now.

Deputy Richard Bruton

It will all happen in one day and there will be no serious examination——

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not part of the scrutiny process. The Deputy should table a motion on the matter.

Deputy Richard Bruton

It is a valid question.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I believe it is. It is about the way we order our business. If asking about the presentation of Estimates is not appropriate to the Order of Business, I cannot think of what might be in order. We debate them every year.

The Taoiseach

It is open to all Oireachtas committees, as the Deputy knows, to go through the Estimates in detail. We brought forward the annual statement in order that people would be able to see that we had done what we said we would do, and learn that targets were reached, or exceeded. There is a great opportunity in the committee system, based on the budgetary reforms we have already introduced, for Members who wish to do so to become involved in the discussion.

Deputy Damien English

That is proper Dáil reform.

The Taoiseach

It is open to the committees to use the Estimates——

Deputy Richard Bruton

It is not. I have tried and it is not possible. If we could look at the information in the documents——

The Taoiseach

The Deputy obviously has a view on the matter and does not wish to hear mine.

Deputy James Bannon

Are the shirts on our backs likely to be under threat from Government cutbacks and stealth taxes? It is now more important than ever that we protect whatever little we have. When can we expect the criminal law (defence of life and property) Bill?

An Ceann Comhairle

I do not know what that has to do with the shirt on the Deputy's back.

The Taoiseach

The Bill will go through the Houses later this year.