Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Nov 2008

Vol. 666 No. 1

Leaders’ Questions.

Deputy Enda Kenny

On this morning it is appropriate we bear in mind the absolutely stunning victory of Senator Barack Obama in his bid to become the 44th President of the United States. I am sure the House would want to send good wishes to him on the monumental task he is undertaking and the responsibility he is being given by the American people.

I contrast the wave of euphoria which has washed across the United States and many parts of the world with the pessimism and cynicism that exists here. An event in this country yesterday epitomised that point exactly. Two reports were published, referred to by both Deputies Reilly and O'Dowd, which dealt with cancer services in the north east and the abolition of a programme for cervical cancer vaccination for girls between ten and 12 years old. It reminds me of the incident in Britain a number of years ago when a famous remark was made that "it was a good day to bury bad news".

The cervical cancer vaccination programme was to cost less than €10 million and was announced in August by the Minister for Health and Children. She stated it was clearly now a priority to move on to vaccination for young girls, with the clear intent of preventing death because 80 people may die from cervical cancer every year. As Deputy Reilly pointed out, the amount of money involved is tiny and in the context of the long-term saving of lives, the Government's action is short-sighted.

When was the report for the north east received? What was the role of the Minister for Health and Children and her officials in announcing this abolition of the cervical vaccination programme yesterday? Why is there an intention to have pay increases of approximately €263 million next year when front line services like this, which are so important for young girls, are being cut? Why was yesterday chosen as the day to make the announcement when the HSE and the Minister for Health and Children knew — or perhaps expected — that people might not notice it?

In the context of the very small amount of money involved and lives which could be saved, as pointed out by Deputy Reilly, does the Taoiseach agree that allowing for pay increases and bonuses for managers of quite an extensive nature epitomises the fact that, in desperation, the Government will chop a service providing health and safety measures for all those young girls, some of whom will contract cervical cancer in future years?

The Taoiseach

I join with Deputy Kenny in wishing Senator Obama well in the transition which must take place before he takes office in the new year as President of the United States. We look forward to maintaining a good relationship with the incoming Administration, as we have had with the outgoing one.

I do not agree with Deputy Kenny on his perception of cynicism and pessimism. If that is a trait he wishes to pursue, it is a matter for him. It is a matter for us to continue to deal with a position that is as challenging for us as it is for other countries and to do so based on our belief and capacity to come through this period and return to growth as soon as possible.

With regard to the specific issues mentioned by the Deputy, the Minister informed the Government yesterday about the north east radiology report. The nine patients who had a delayed diagnosis were identified and diagnosed prior to March 2008 and no further cases of delayed diagnoses were identified during this look-back review. The HSE has recognised the need to respond in a timely fashion when serious concerns relating to misdiagnosis arise. Protocols and guidance were not in place around the thresholds and methodology for reviews of this nature when concerns were first raised about delayed diagnosis. The HSE also faced logistical difficulties, including the sourcing of sufficient radiologists to carry out a review of almost 6,000 X-rays and CT scans.

As a result of the issues and delays which arose in commencing this review, a process of engagement with the faculty of radiology of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland was initiated in June this year. Protocols to provide guidance around dealing with reports of error in radiology are currently being developed between the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and the HSE. The process will be completed before the end of this year and will provide clarity and confidence in decision-making around reviews of this nature in future. The HSE has also formally engaged with the forum of postgraduate training bodies to set up a rapid response mechanism for incidents of this kind.

With regard to the vaccine issue, the continuation and expansion of the cancer control programme under Professor Tom Keane remains a priority and funding of €15 million has been made available for this purpose. At present, the national cervical screening programme, CervicalCheck, is being rolled out with a full-year cost of €35 million. The programme will provide free smear tests through primary care settings to the 1.1 million women living in Ireland aged between 25 and 60 years. A successful national programme has the potential to cut mortality rates from cervical cancer by up to 80%, and we will proceed along that line.

Deputy Enda Kenny

That is the HSE response as quoted in all the newspapers recently. The vaccination programme was intended for ten and 12 year old girls. Moreover, the HIQA report that was given to the Minister for Health and Children also stated there should be a catch-up phase for 13 to 15 year olds. Both measures have been scrapped although in August, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, stated "it is clear the main priority now is to move to the introduction of the vaccination programme for 12 year old girls to commence in September 2009".

I refer to the Taoiseach's statement yesterday to the effect he must make adjustments, between tax increases and cuts, in the order of €5,000 million, to bring the economy back into shape by 2010. In this case, he is aware the figures produced show there would be a saving of €2.7 million, because of disease avoided, on an annual basis over time. Nevertheless, this vital vaccination programme now is gone.

More than seven years have passed since the issues of the north east first were brought to the Government's attention. I will provide the Taoiseach with an example that demonstrates both how dysfunctional is the HSE, which is the creation of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, and the reason the Government is unable to make savings in this area. I have to hand a letter from an employee of the HSE who, in an act of patriotism as called for by the Minister for Finance, instructed his bosses to reduce his salary by 5%. The HSE's response to him was that his request was unusual. It went on to state, "I would be grateful if you would assist my understanding of your request before I consider appropriate actions". This was the response of the HSE to an employee who asked it to reduce his salary, as an act of patriotism, by 5% for 2009.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Typical.

Deputy Enda Kenny

However, the same HSE will award itself bonuses for managers. Although a €263 million pay increase has been awarded across the service, a lousy €10 million for vaccination for young girls between the age of ten and 12 has been shafted by the Minister for Health and Children. Moreover, the announcement was made on the day of the American presidential election when, in an act of despicable cynicism, it was expected that people would take no notice of it. The Taoiseach should respond to this issue and should give me his response regarding what the HSE wrote to its employee. Can the Taoiseach imagine anything as nonsensical as the HSE replying to its own employee in such a manner? Does the Taoiseach have a view in this regard?

Deputy Dinny McGinley

He would have received a better response had he sought an increase.

The Taoiseach

Of course I have a view on this. Were Deputy Kenny to send me a copy of the letter, I will follow it up. Clearly, if clarification is being sought on a person wishing——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

This happens every day.

The Taoiseach

If a person——

An Ceann Comhairle

Let him finish.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan

Is the HSE not writing to the Taoiseach?

The Taoiseach

Obviously, I have not received that correspondence. However, were I to receive it, I am sure I could follow it up. I presume Deputy Kenny also followed it up.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Sack him.

The Taoiseach

The point is that health is one of the areas in which the Government has increased expenditure. The same public service pay pause, which, as matters stand has been negotiated with the social partners until 1 October next year, applies to the health service as to other services. It is important to point out that even with these savings and the efforts to economise that are necessary to restore order to the public finances, next year we still will borrow on a day to day basis €4.7 billion more than we will earn.

Moreover, as for the suggestion I have read to the effect that we are cutting €5 billion in expenditure next year, it is important to note we have indicated in our three year programme our intention to move back to budgetary balance as soon as possible and to work through that process. Consequently, that particular figure is wrong. The only issue I have with the Fine Gael Party in respect of bringing the public finances into order is that although it believes there should be another €2 billion in cuts, it has not agreed to any cuts thus far or on the €2 billion it wishes to implement.

Deputy Enda Kenny

That is nonsense and the Taoiseach knows it.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The Taoiseach should show some responsibility.

An Ceann Comhairle

Glaoim ar cheannaire Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre, an Teachta Eamon Gilmore.

Deputy Alan Shatter

The Taoiseach's value system is a disgrace. His political philosophy is to maintain administration while depriving people of immunisation.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

First, I wish to join the Taoiseach and Deputy Kenny in congratulating Senator Obama on his election as President of the United States and to welcome the promise of a more multilateral approach towards foreign policy by the United States. It is interesting, as one looks across the Atlantic at the celebrations that have been taking place in cities and streets across the United States, what a sense of renewal and fresh hope a change of government can bring to a country.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Noel J. Coonan

And to Moneygall.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

It is time to go, boys.

A Deputy

That is a tired old tale.

Deputy Seán Power

Everyone hates the Republicans now.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Moreover, George Bush was only there for eight years.

A Deputy

It is becoming purple now. There was no red or blue.

Deputy Dick Roche

He had only one election to go through.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

In just over ten minutes time, the Central Statistics Office will publish the latest unemployment figures. Last month, these figures showed that more than 240,000 people were on the live register, which constituted an increase of 80,000 over the figure for the same month the previous year. The latest available figures from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment state there were more than 32,000 redundancies notified to that Department in the past year.

Rising unemployment is the single biggest economic problem that Ireland now faces. It is contributing hugely to the problem in the public finances. Every additional person who becomes unemployed is one less worker paying tax to the State and one more household drawing social welfare and related benefits. Moreover, that is before one counts the social and personal cost of unemployment. I wish to ask the Taoiseach two questions. First, will he tell Members the total number on the live register, which will be published and announced by the Central Statistics Office in ten minutes time? Second, when I asked the Taoiseach last September what initiatives the Government had taken to deal with the unemployment problem, he could not point to a single initiative the Government had taken over the entire summer period. I again ask him today whether he can inform Members of specific initiatives the Government has taken or is taking to halt the slide in unemployment and to put people back to work.

The Taoiseach

As for the question on the live register, I understand from memory of yesterday's meeting that the figure is approximately 252,000, or 6.7% of the total workforce. As the Deputy is aware, that figure includes those who are temporarily moving in and out of work and the labour force survey is the most accurate measure of unemployment. However, in respect of the policies that have been enacted by the Government to try to deal with this situation, we already have indicated that as we are in recessionary times, unfortunately we have been obliged to budget for increased unemployment next year. Unfortunately it is true there is an additional cost of approximately €1.25 billion to make provision in the social welfare budget next year for that contingency.

Second, thankfully the Government has been pursuing polices, many of which were opposed by the Deputy in opposition, which have created much employment. Third, as for what the Government now is trying to do, it is ensuring that FÁS and other agencies are providing initiatives and courses to people to help with upskilling. The Government is working on the skills survey outcome, which has come from the people it employs for that purpose. There also is the question of continuing with the correct strategy. First, it is trying to bring order to the public finances, although the Labour Party has opposed all the cuts announced. Second, the Government continues to apply major resources in respect of the strategy on science, technology and innovation although none was applied when the Labour Party was in government.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The Taoiseach should stop.

The Taoiseach

Third, the Government continues to work with Enterprise Ireland, which has brought forward new initiatives to help Irish businesses.

Deputy Brian Hayes

One thousand new jobs a week are needed.

The Taoiseach

It is identifying high-performance start-up businesses and is internationalising Irish business. Moreover there has been an increase in exports by Irish business despite a difficult environment in present circumstances. We will continue to do all of that to assist in every way we can those who create business and employment and who are trying to maintain employment to the best extent possible.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The figure of 252,000 unemployed is shocking. That is almost 100,000 more people out of work than this time last year. It is a shocking level of job losses. Two thousand jobs per week have been lost in the course of the past year. The Taoiseach's business as usual response, that FÁS courses will be provided and that he is continuing with the economic policies of the Government is the most frightening thing of all. Continuing the economic policies of the Government that has landed us with 100,000 extra people unemployed during the past year is the problem. The only thing the budget did for people who are unemployed was to make it harder for them to get jobseeker's benefit.

The Government has abandoned people who are losing their jobs and has turned its back on the unemployed. People who are losing their jobs in the Irish economy today do not want the dole. They want work. They do not want to be on a FÁS course, they want to be in a job. My question to the Taoiseach was not about FÁS courses, nor was it about the kind of generalised statement and response he has given, I asked him specifically what initiatives he is taking to get people back to work. The concerns people who are losing their jobs have are about when they will be back at work. They want work. People who are in employment want some sense that they are not going to lose their jobs. They are not getting that reassurance from the Government.

The Taoiseach

I disagree with Deputy Gilmore fundamentally.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Do you?

The Taoiseach

He asked about the creation of work. The place to provide the creation of work is in the productive sector of the economy. In the State sector we have already increased employment, which has provided increased public services — more teachers, more nurses, more gardaí, and more of all those essential services. We have provided a level of service that Deputy Gilmore could only aspire to when he was in Government.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

What was Deputy Cowen doing when he was in Government?

The Taoiseach

We now need to see greater outcomes, outputs and better co-ordination for the provision of those services. We will conduct that process——

Deputy Alan Shatter

We need private sector jobs.

The Taoiseach

——in the future as we outline our plans in that area.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

We need change.

The Taoiseach

On the question of how we ensure we deal with the problem of rising unemployment, we have to maintain competitiveness in the economy. Every economy currently in recession is losing jobs. The European economy is losing jobs. The US economy is losing jobs. Jobs are being lost in Asia and everywhere else. That is not to be defeatist about it but it is a fact. If we do not understand the context in which we are operating we are not likely to sort it out.

As to what we are doing about it as a Government, we are, despite our severe financial difficulties, maintaining a public investment programme totalling €8.2 billion in direct Exchequer funding which is providing not only jobs but necessary improved economic infrastructure for this country. That will not totally offset the reduction in activity in the private sector but it is an absolute prerequisite for making sure this economy is ready to take advantage of the upturn when it comes in the world economy, as an open economy such as ours can only do. Our domestic consumer market will not be able to take the reduced activity in terms of what is available internationally.

Let us be fair and honest about it, the Government is maintaining its commitment under the national development plan to provide for capital investment of between 5% and 6% of GDP, which is twice the average of any other government in Europe to which Deputy Gilmore might point in terms of what Government is contributing directly from Exchequer resources to building up infrastructure.

Regarding everything else we are doing in terms of retraining — Deputy Gilmore is running down other State agencies here as well — those agencies are providing good services for people who want other employment. We have made changes to the back to education allowance, which has increased by 24% this year.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

You cut that.

The Taoiseach

It has increased by a quarter. Excuse me Deputy Gilmore, we have a quarter more in the back to education allowance this year than previously.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

You cut it in the budget.

The Taoiseach

I am explaining to Deputy Gilmore what is happening on the ground where he claims he is in touch. The other point is this——

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

You cut the back to education allowance.

The Taoiseach

All the other schemes we are bringing forward will be used and adapted to the situation in which we now find ourselves to see what way we can assist those people, whether it is through local employment services or direct contact with FÁS itself, which is to receive funding of more than €900 million next year. Of course I am concerned at the numbers of unemployed.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

You ought to be.

The Taoiseach

Yes. But Deputy Gilmore's old ideological position——

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

No other country has lost that much employment.

The Taoiseach

——that the State can provide all the answers to the employment problem is as dated as the ideology he still espouses.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Some 100,000 people are out of work in the past year.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

The Tánaiste did not get as far as ideology.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

We do not want talk, we want action.