Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. a15, statements on delivering sustainable economic renewal and securing our public finances; and No. 9, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000 (Section 5) (Specified Period) Order 2009, to be taken at 6.40 p.m. tonight and the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the proceedings on No. a15 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.30 p.m. tomorrow and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of the Taoiseach and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and the Minister for Finance shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 20 minutes; (2) the proceedings on No. 9 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 20 minutes tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: the speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed five minutes in each case; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and (3) Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 48, motion re Child Protection (resumed), shall be taken at 7 p.m. tonight or on the conclusion of No. 9, whichever is the later, and brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a15, statements on delivering sustainable economic renewal and securing our public finances, agreed to?

Deputy Enda Kenny: No, it is not agreed to.

The House discussed previously the fact that when the Dáil should meet we should have a discussion on the economic crisis facing the country, and that should not be just a series of bland statements.

It is even worse. Week after week there is evidence of discussions taking place with the social partnership, which is fine. However, this House, to which people are elected from all over the country to represent all of the people of the island, has been left in the dark completely and we do not know the figures available to Government about the extent of this crisis, how bad it is or how the clock is moving towards the end game.

This is a farce of a debate. The Taoiseach expects Members in the Dáil to speak completely in the dark in respect of the information he has and that he is discussing with the social partners.

I wrote to the Taoiseach yesterday looking for the details of the issues he is discussing with social partnership so the spokespersons on finance at least could have some direction on the trend of this so-called debate here today. The Taoiseach wrote back to me stating the Framework for Economic Renewal was published in December last by the Government. I recall that being done with great pomp and ceremony, and it was rubbished completely by the media afterwards. He stated that he met with the social partners, that he sought their views, reactions and comments, and he is entitled to do that. He added that earlier this month he met the social partners and he briefed them on the extent of the implications of the end-year Exchequer returns, and he is entitled to do that. He stated: "The proposals for a framework agreement which are being discussed with the Social Partners are based on these parameters." They are based on the parameters of what was published in December last. He continued: "In accordance with long-established precedent, it would not be appropriate to put into the public domain specific texts which are subject of current discussion." The Taoiseach went on to state:

However, [this is an insult to everybody in the House] the framework within which they have been developed are in the public domain and are the subject matter of our statements today.

I disagree entirely. The statements today are not about the launch by the Taoiseach in December last. They are about the fact the Government has waited, waited and waited and has made no decisions.

This House should have been back in session on 7 January. The discussions with the social partners should have been concluded. We should have evidence of the Taoiseach's decisions. We should have evidence of his strategy and his plan.

The Taoiseach sent this reply to me. Not only did he not see it himself, when he talks about other people's scripts, but it is even rubber-stamped by somebody over in the Office of the Taoiseach, which speaks for itself.

The Taoiseach

I did see it.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Maybe he did see it. I take that back if he did see it.

A Deputy

He rubber-stamped it.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The Taoiseach has a rubber stamp over there. The Brian Cowen I knew years ago would write the signature with a pen anyway, the very least that he could do.

The Taoiseach

Lend me your one.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The fact is the Taoiseach is stating in this letter that he does not want the Members of this House to know what Government is discussing with the social partnership. I reject that.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Hear, hear.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I would like to think that we would have a motion tabled here that would provide an opportunity for the Minister for Finance, for two and a half hours at the end of this series of statements, to answer questions about the impending and current economic crisis, which affects everybody and which everybody wants to play their part in getting out of. How in hell can we get out of it if we do not know the scale of just what it is we face into? The Taoiseach has that evidence but he will not tell us and he expects us to speak over the next two days on a debate that is meaningless when we do not have the fiscal and economic parameters of what it is that we face. Therefore, I reject the proposal before us.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

What we are about to undertake, or what the Taoiseach proposes we undertake, today and tomorrow is one of the greatest abuses of the Dáil we have seen in recent times. However, it is not just an abuse of the Dáil and not just an insult to the Members of the House who have been elected. It is also, I believe, an even bigger insult to the public.

For the past six or seven weeks we have been treated to daily speculation about what the Government is or is not deciding, or going to do about the economy and about the public finances. People all over this country are wondering will there be a cut in pay, will there be increased pension contributions, will there be increases in tax, will there be a property tax, will there be cuts in services, will there be something done to provide credit for business, and what will happen with people who are losing their jobs and what kind of services will be provided for them. All of this is what people are concerned about.

On what the Taoiseach is proposing, we are back in the Dáil after a recess, which certainly the Opposition did not want but which the Government claimed it needed in order to reflect on all of these matters. All of these meetings of the Cabinet took place. One sees Ministers who are normally mad keen to get their faces in front of a camera going into Cabinet meetings with their car windows firmly closed——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

And their hoods up.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

——and nobody prepared to say anything to anybody or utter anything in front of a microphone.

Great discussion, great consideration, great deliberation is being done by Government about the financial affairs of the State and now that we come to this point where we will debate it in the Dáil there are no proposals from the Government, no announcement of what decisions have been made, and no background information provided as to the options that have been considered by the Government or on the information on the public finances. We are told that there is some kind of a framework document that has been presented for discussion with the social partners which does not contain any specifics, but even that document has not been released and made available to us——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

A blank sheet.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

——and we are going to have a series of statements. The series of statements will be a joke and a waste of energy and time. We are talking in a vacuum. We on this side of the House, who were elected to represent the people, cannot meaningfully——

Deputy John Cregan

So were we.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

——engage in this kind of discussion in the absence of information that the Government has or in the absence of knowledge of what decisions the Government has made without telling us or is about to make. We will all need to reply to the Taoiseach's opening statement today. No doubt it will be wordy and we will all say what must be said generally about the economy.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

The Taoiseach will not be saying much.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Tomorrow, the Minister for Finance will also make a 20 minute speech, but he will not take questions and no opportunity will be given to finance spokespersons to reply. Presumably, when the decisions are announced after the debate and the discussion with the social partners, we will be told that everything has already been discussed.

Deputy Seán Barrett

We could all go down to Liberty Hall and find out more.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Gilmore has made his point.

Deputy Seán Barrett

We could learn more at Liberty Hall.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

This is a nonsensical proposal with which the Labour Party does not agree. While we want a meaningful debate on the serious state of the economy, it must start with the Government making available to the House information on what decisions it is considering and has made, what is being discussed with the social partners and what are the real details of the situation.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I made all of my arguments yesterday. It is essential that, if we are to have the opportunity to participate from an informed basis, the information to which the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and others have access be shared. I am referring to relevant information. If people outside the House who are engaged with the Government in respect of the social partnership talks have access to the detail that clearly swirls around that engagement, why can Deputies not be informed so that they can properly prepare and participate in what should be a real debate?

The debate must address more than a mere bookkeeping exercise or attempts to find €2 billion in cuts. It must address job creation initiatives, about which we see and hear even less from the Government, and its commitment to seize the moment to redress infrastructural deficits and to create employment. These are the necessary steps. Contrary to some media commentators' suggestions that these are medium to long-term solutions, it is not the case. They can have a direct and immediate impact, not only in terms of improved job opportunities and the return to the Exchequer consequently created, but also in addressing the deep inner depression being felt by people across the State. This is the real situation. People are looking for hope and leadership, but it is not being given. All that they see are utterances and media reportage of further doom, gloom, cuts and deep slashes in their income expectations. This situation cannot continue. The Government is driving the country into a deep depression——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a Second Stage speech.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——collectively and individually. There is ample evidence of this.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have a chance to make his speech later.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

We must address this problem in the round, but the Government is not doing so. The Government will certainly not do it today or tomorrow. To all intents and purposes, it is offering a very imperfect opportunity to comment on what we see in media reportage and on our analysis of what the Government tells us. It is not telling us the whole truth.

The Taoiseach

I refute Deputy Ó Caoláin's statements in that regard. The purpose of the debate is to——

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

It is not a debate.

The Taoiseach

——allow for the delivery of sustainable economic renewal and the securing of our public finances. Statements can be made by any Member of this House on those issues. When the Framework for Delivering Sustainable Economic Renewal was launched by the Government, the complaint in this House was that we would not debate it. I said we would have that debate at the first available opportunity. We can have that debate in the House today.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

What about last December?

The Taoiseach

Of course, it is the tactic of people in opposition to rubbish every initiative that is made.

Deputy Enda Kenny

It is not.

The Taoiseach

It was not rubbished——

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

It could be a more popular initiative.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Members should listen to the Taoiseach in silence.

The Taoiseach

One listens in silence and then hears the cackle of the hens.

Deputy Enda Kenny

When the Minister beside the Taoiseach rang me at 7 a.m., I said we would support the guarantee scheme. We do not rubbish everything.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to make his point.

The Taoiseach

I am trying to make a serious point. The point I am making is——

Deputy Enda Kenny

So am I.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Kenny has made his point and I am now entitled to make my point without interruption. That is the way that the good order of the House works.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The Taoiseach stated that we rubbish everything he says.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach must be allowed to respond.

The Taoiseach

That is the problem with Opposition Members.

Deputy Fergus O’Dowd

The Taoiseach is the problem.

The Taoiseach

They expect courtesy to be extended to them, but they give none.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Your predecessor would always take constructive criticism from Opposition Members.

The Taoiseach

I am just telling you about how you are behaving towards me. Not to worry.

Deputy Enda Kenny

You are doing it your way. I know.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will address some comments through the Chair and we will proceed. The Taoiseach without interruption.

The Taoiseach

The important point to make is that there is an opportunity for the House to give its views on all of these issues in terms of economic policy in the country and on how we can secure our public finances.

Deputy Richard Bruton

There will be no framework in which we could do that.

The Taoiseach

That is the purpose of the debate. Regarding future decisions to be made by the Government and to be brought to the House and debated, that option is available to us and, I am sure, will be availed of in the coming weeks and months as well. It is a question of the House giving an opportunity to all Members to set out what they believe to be the issues and the means by which we can sustain economic renewal and secure our public finances. This issue is of concern to the people.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No.a15 be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 69.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.
Ahern, Michael.
Ahern, Noel.
Andrews, Barry.
Andrews, Chris.
Ardagh, Seán.
Aylward, Bobby.
Behan, Joe.
Blaney, Niall.
Brady, Áine.
Brady, Cyprian.
Brady, Johnny.
Browne, John.
Byrne, Thomas.
Calleary, Dara.
Carey, Pat.
Collins, Niall.
Conlon, Margaret.
Connick, Seán.
Coughlan, Mary.
Cowen, Brian.
Cregan, John.
Cuffe, Ciarán.
Cullen, Martin.
Curran, John.
Dempsey, Noel.
Devins, Jimmy.
Dooley, Timmy.
Fitzpatrick, Michael.
Fleming, Seán.
Flynn, Beverley.
Gallagher, Pat The Cope.
Gogarty, Paul.
Gormley, John.
Grealish, Noel.
Harney, Mary.
Haughey, Seán.
Healy-Rae, Jackie.
Hoctor, Máire.
Kelleher, Billy.
Kelly, Peter.
Kenneally, Brendan.
Kennedy, Michael.
Kirk, Seamus.
Kitt, Michael P.
Kitt, Tom.
Lenihan, Brian.
Lenihan, Conor.
McDaid, James.
McEllistrim, Thomas.
McGrath, Mattie.
McGrath, Michael.
McGuinness, John.
Mansergh, Martin.
Moloney, John.
Mulcahy, Michael.
Nolan, M.J.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
O’Brien, Darragh.
O’Connor, Charlie.
O’Dea, Willie.
O’Flynn, Noel.
O’Hanlon, Rory.
O’Keeffe, Batt.
O’Keeffe, Edward.
O’Rourke, Mary.
O’Sullivan, Christy.
Roche, Dick.
Ryan, Eamon.
Sargent, Trevor.
Scanlon, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.
Treacy, Noel.
Wallace, Mary.
White, Mary Alexandra.
Woods, Michael.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.
Bannon, James.
Barrett, Seán.
Breen, Pat.
Broughan, Thomas P.
Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Ulick.
Burton, Joan.
Byrne, Catherine.
Carey, Joe.
Clune, Deirdre.
Connaughton, Paul.
Coonan, Noel J.
Costello, Joe.
Coveney, Simon.
Crawford, Seymour.
Creighton, Lucinda.
Deasy, John.
Deenihan, Jimmy.
Doyle, Andrew.
Durkan, Bernard J.
English, Damien.
Enright, Olwyn.
Ferris, Martin.
Flanagan, Charles.
Flanagan, Terence.
Gilmore, Eamon.
Hayes, Brian.
Higgins, Michael D.
Hogan, Phil.
Howlin, Brendan.
Kehoe, Paul.
Kenny, Enda.
Lynch, Ciarán.
Lynch, Kathleen.
McCormack, Pádraic.
McEntee, Shane.
McGinley, Dinny.
McGrath, Finian.
McHugh, Joe.
McManus, Liz.
Mitchell, Olivia.
Morgan, Arthur.
Naughten, Denis.
Noonan, Michael.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
O’Donnell, Kieran.
O’Dowd, Fergus.
O’Keeffe, Jim.
O’Mahony, John.
O’Shea, Brian.
O’Sullivan, Jan.
Penrose, Willie.
Perry, John.
Quinn, Ruairí.
Rabbitte, Pat.
Reilly, James.
Ring, Michael.
Sheahan, Tom.
Sheehan, P.J.
Sherlock, Seán.
Shortall, Róisín.
Stagg, Emmet.
Stanton, David.
Timmins, Billy.
Tuffy, Joanna.
Upton, Mary.
Varadkar, Leo.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed to?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The time allocated for this is only 20 minutes. There is no time provision for the spokesperson for my party to participate. With respect, it is an important issue and is not just something to be glibly let go through. There is provision for the Government, Fine Gael and Labour in the 20 minutes allocated. Can we not have an acceptance of the right of participation? I am the Sinn Féin spokesperson for health and children and would like to have the opportunity to contribute. Will the Taoiseach and Chief Whip facilitate an extension of an additional five minutes so that we may all have an opportunity to contribute to this particular matter?

Deputy Finian McGrath

Hear, hear; it is undemocratic.

The Taoiseach

On this item, section 5 of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000 requires that the commission's report must be published within the specified period. That specified period is due to expire at midnight on 31 January next. The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 200 (Section 5) (Specified Period) Order 2009 will extend the specified period of the commission for a further four months to 31 May 2009. The extension is required to allow the commission to fulfil its statutory mandate to publish its report during the specified period. The commissioners are working hard to finalise their report. Mr. Justice Sean Ryan, chairperson of the commission, has recently indicated to the Department that it hopes to be in a position to forward the final version of its report to the printers by mid-February and that the commission's legal team will obviously be significantly reduced at that stage. Indications are that the report is a particularly voluminous document, the printing process is expected to take in the region of two months and arrangements will then have to be put in place for its release to the general public, as required by the Act.

A resolution approving the order must be passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas to enable that to happen.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Taoiseach has not answered my question.

The Taoiseach

That is in accordance with Standing Orders.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Arising from comments I heard the Taoiseach make yesterday to the effect that it may be necessary to introduce increased tax provisions, does this mean he intends to bring in another budget?

The Taoiseach

I was making the point to the Deputy that in respect of the gap that has emerged in the public finances, they cannot simply be dealt with by way of expenditure cuts alone, and clearly during the course of this five-year adjustment period there will obviously need to be adjustments to the tax base as well. I cannot anticipate the outcome of the discussions ongoing at the moment, as to what our final position will be on these matters. I was making the general point, obviously, that taxes will be involved in trying to deal with this issue.

Deputy Enda Kenny

In respect of the five years the Taoiseach mentions, can I take it that the discussions he is having do not envisage another budget in 2009? Given the current state of the financial crisis, is he excluding further tax increases in 2009, while leaving the Government open to consider what it has to deal with for the remainder of the five-year period?

The Taoiseach

Obviously, it is not intended that a special budget will be required during the course of this particular year, but discussions are taking place at present to see how we may build consensus on the arrangements to be made in 2009 and the years following. We are indicating, first of all, that the immediate requirement relates to the €2 billion saving that has to be obtained, and discussions are ongoing in that regard. When the Government makes its full decision, it will come before the House, with its full complement of measures.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

I asked the Taoiseach yesterday whether he could tell the House what the total was, between social welfare payments and secondary benefits——

An Ceann Comhairle

Leaders' Questions are over, Deputy Gilmore.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

This arises from an undertaking which the Taoiseach made here yesterday in response to my question, that he would provide the information to me. I have it here. He said, "I shall have to get more details before I can respond fully to Deputy Gilmore". He then gave me an estimate for what 100,000 people unemployed would mean, in terms of social welfare payments. I want to ask the Taoiseach whether the information is available yet, and when it will be provided to us.

The Taoiseach

The information is not available yet, but I shall get it for the Deputy as soon as possible.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Yesterday, when we were debating the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Bill 2009, I found out later in the evening that the Bill had been withdrawn in the Seanad. Will the Taoiseach say why the Bill was withdrawn in the Seanad last evening, when——

An Ceann Comhairle

He cannot, actually, because that is a matter for the Seanad.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

When the Bill was concluding last evening——

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a long-standing precedent.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Will the Ceann Comhairle please give me some leeway? When the Bill was concluding last night, I pointed out a number of legal difficulties, which might indicate that it could give rise to further anomalies so that we might have to enact further legislation in this House. If the Bill is being amended, that means it is coming back to this House, and that is relevant to the Order of Business. Where stands the Bill at present, relative to the Seanad? Has it been amended? If it has not, given that it was withdrawn, it was obviously examined. Was that examination done based on advice from the Attorney General's office, or is it the case that the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has deemed the Bill should not now proceed?

The Taoiseach

It is not anticipated that the Bill shall be required to come back to the Dáil, as I understand it. It is being taken in the Seanad, as we speak. A clarification matter arose, as a result of a contribution here in the Dáil that was checked last night, and this has enabled the Seanad to take the Bill this morning.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Deputies on all sides attended a meeting just before Christmas at which undertakings were given on the Employment Law Compliance Bill, and I note that it seems to have slipped off all of the lists. In fact it is not referred to at all in the Government's legislative programme. When will Second Stage of that Bill be taken?

The Taoiseach

I understand that it is published, and that we are awaiting Second Stage.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

When will Second Stage take place?

The Taoiseach

That will be a matter for the Whips.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

It is not on any list. In fact, it has been dropped from the legislative programme. It is neither on the pink list nor is it on later lists. No provision has been made for it, and as regards the talks that are taking place between social partners, given the number of parties that presented before Christmas——

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot have that, now.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

It is a very straightforward question. What has happened the promised legislation that was due for Second Stage, known as the Employment Law Compliance Bill? Why was it taken off the Government's programme and all lists?

The Taoiseach

For the purpose of clarification from our viewpoint, as the Deputy knows, once the Bill is published it comes off the list and is put on the Order Paper. Section D of the legislative programme, as I understand it, outlines those Bills that are on the Order Paper as a result of publication——

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Yes, that is correct.

The Taoiseach

——which includes that one. The present situation, as regards the status of the Bill, is that it will be a matter for the Whips to decide when the Bill's Second Stage will be taken in the House.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I want to ask the Taoiseach about an item of legislation that has evaporated as well. It is the education (Ireland) Bill which was on the C list of the promised legislation before Christmas and has now disappeared from that. In light of the fact that this is an industry which needs to be regulated and could actually provide a financial benefit to the economy, why has it been removed and are there any plans to reintroduce it?

The Taoiseach

I understand the Bill has been dropped pending a way being found to deal with the issue that may avoid the necessity of taking that particular legislative route.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

In the matter of Dáil reform, which was raised by my colleague, Deputy Stanton, yesterday, I want to again thank the Ceann Comhairle for his guidance in steering all parties towards agreement on a package on Dáil reform in the middle of last year, albeit modest but important, which was referred then to the Government for decision. We are waiting for the Government on that package on Dáil reform, which has been agreed by all parties for a very long time. I realise that other matters might have been given greater priority in the course of the last six months, but it is very important that we attend to that. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his assistance and guidance in that matter, which assisted all the parties to get agreement on that package of Dáil reform.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Could the Taoiseach give a timescale we can work from, without saying it will happen in the next number of months? Will it be in February or March? I am Whip of my party for almost five years and this has been put off repeatedly by consecutive Taoisigh and Government Whips. If the Taoiseach is interested in the Dáil, can we see some action from that side of the House?

The Taoiseach

I note the proposals to which Deputy Stagg referred. The Government intends to bring forward a comprehensive set of proposals which will address the need for Dáil reform. A working group for that purpose has been set up, so it will not just address the issue in a piecemeal way on the day-to-day operations of the Dáil, which can be addressed by adherence to Standing Orders of the Dáil. The Government intends to bring forward its proposals in light of——

Deputy Emmet Stagg

That is a most disappointing reply because I have received the same reply for 20 years from the Government side.

Deputy Richard Bruton

Back into the file again.

Deputy Enda Kenny

It will be another three months.

Deputy Joe Costello

In the context of Deputy Higgins's question on the employment law compliance Bill, I remind the Taoiseach that this time last year the Government took its eye off the ball regarding the Lisbon treaty and that there is a package of proposals related to legislative development that must take place before there is any further vote, if that is the way the Government is going. Has the Taoiseach included the legislation regarding the temporary agency workers Bill and will the services directive legislation, which has to be implemented, be transposed into domestic legislation by the end of this year? These should be front-loaded into the legislative programme well before the summer if we are to deal properly with the area of workers' rights and provision of that nature that will be required.

The Taoiseach

The legislation to which Deputy Costello refers is being worked on and there has been much consultation with the social partners in an effort to find agreement on these matters, which has not been easy to achieve. We will continue to work on that and detailed questions to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coughlan, during Question Time would enable more debate and amplify the matter more thoroughly.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The legislation I wish to raise was first signalled in the Government's health strategy in 2001 when it was stated new legislation to provide for clear, statutory provisions of entitlement would be brought forward by Government. The signalled target date was over six years ago, 2002. I speak of the eligibility for health and personal social services Bill, which has been promised year in and year out. This time last year it was indicated that it would be published in 2009. In autumn the Government's list said it was not possible to indicate when it would happen and that has been replicated this week with the most recent publication of promised or proposed legislation. Can the Taoiseach explain why this essential legislation has not been progressed some eight years after it was first signalled? Are we being strung out by Government promises on this? Has the Government abandoned its intent to bring forward this legislation, embarrassed by the fact that it is neither in a position nor willing to see the equitable delivery of health care and personal social services across this State? That is the only conclusion anybody can reach from the Government's failure to bring forward the required legislation.

The Taoiseach

There is no date for bringing forward that legislation. I know what the Deputy has had to say about it. A number of legislative priorities have been outlined in the legislation programme for this session. In many cases when work begins on a Bill other priorities come into play regarding trying to deal with issues that arise according as problems arise. A parliamentary question to the Minister for Health and Children would be the best way of getting further details on the possible timescale for such a Bill.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

With respect, legislation is the Taoiseach's responsibility. I do not intend to put parliamentary questions to the Minister for Health and Children on promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach has answered the question.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

This is the opportunity on the Order of Business and I would expect the Taoiseach to be in a position to give a more informed reply on legislation that deserves priority and is long overdue.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot comment on that. He has made his point.

Deputy Joan Burton

I want to ask about two matters. In the budget there was a proposal to merge a number of quangos and State agencies. That gave rise to the need for 15 separate pieces of amending legislation. Regarding one proposed merger between the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency, this morning I saw that the chief executive of the NCA was amazed to find that prices in the North were 60% higher than those in the South, and that——

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not discussing prices in the North.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Minister announced she might bring in legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Burton should ask about that.

Deputy Joan Burton

She is quoted in The Irish Times as bringing in legislation to deal with the matter.

Deputy Mary Coughlan

This is the first time I have heard Deputy Burton speak about this.

Deputy Joan Burton

When will we get the merger of these bodies? Has there been any progress on the 15 pieces of legislation for these two bodies or the other quangos? Is there any progress? We are nearly at the end of the first financial month of the year.

The Taoiseach

These are policy decisions that have been taken and which Ministers in their Departments must progress. The question of how quickly they will happen depends on the specific issues that arise for the mergers in each Department. These matters are being dealt with by Ministers as we speak.

Deputy Joan Burton

My second related point is that under the reformed budgetary procedures we were promised that we would get Estimates volumes on time and at a reasonable time to allow for examination. The budget was brought forward so there is no reason why the Estimates volumes should not be available now. When will we receive them?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to raise that in another way.

Deputy Joan Burton

That is a reasonable question.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is a reasonable and very good question if the Deputy will put it down.

Deputy Joan Burton

Thank you. May I have an answer to it? I am entitled.

An Ceann Comhairle

You may when you put it down. It is not in order now. The Deputy will have to raise it another way. I cannot wander all over the countryside on the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Government cannot do it. It is blatantly obvious to the whole country that it cannot.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Burton should put down a question.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

In early December I asked the Taoiseach about the defamation Bill and why it has been pushed into a lay-by since the former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform decided to rise to a more exciting challenge. The Taoiseach very kindly wrote to me to say the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, would be in touch with me about it. The Minister has been very busy representing all his constituents without discrimination, or as some would say, without discernment, and has not written to me yet. Would the Taoiseach ask the Minister to drop me a note about the defamation Bill because there is a difficulty in the Ombudsman's office unless it is underpinned by legislation?

The Taoiseach

Yes, I will ask the Minister and we will see what the story is.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach will write more letters.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

He will make representations.

Deputy Seán Barrett

The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security produced new legislation, the Offshore Renewable Energy Development Bill, which puts in place new structures for the development of offshore energy. While we are told there is €16 billion in investment waiting to be made in this country and jobs could be created we have not heard what will happen to this legislation. It appears on no list. This is an all-party committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas including parties and Independents. We went to the trouble of putting in place modern legislation to deal with offshore development. Surely the Government can take on board this important legislation which can be passed here in the space of a week so development can take place in offshore wind and wave energy. The Ceann Comhairle may have read in The Irish Times that €100 million is being invested by the European Union in a super grid.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss this morning's The Irish Times.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Go on. Be a sport.

Deputy Seán Barrett

That is the connector between Great Britain and Ireland. This is an essential part of this overall development. Where did this legislation disappear to? We sent it to the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, which is the proper place for it to be dealt with. The Taoiseach is chairman of the climate change and energy security Cabinet sub-committee. Maybe the Taoiseach will take the trouble to find out exactly where it is, unless we are all wasting our time in trying to be productive, positive and create jobs. Will the Taoiseach please find out where it is and ask that it be put through the system so that we can get on with creating employment?

The Taoiseach

I will ask the Minister to contact the Deputy in his capacity as chairman of the committee as to the status of the legislation in the Department and what progress can be made.

Deputy Seán Barrett

Can the Taoiseach not get it on the list?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Yesterday, I tabled several questions seeking specific information on schools. The replies were 90% accurate but some of the information sought was not provided. Will the Minister for Education and Science, who is generally reasonable, attend to that matter?

The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has 26 Bills on the legislative programme. The crime situation here is without precedent and is achieving international notoriety. Judges of the High Court say that the law is inadequate to deal with particular cases because it does not allow them to hand down the proper sentences.

An Ceann Comhairle

To what legislation does the Deputy refer?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Which of the 26 Bills does the Government propose to bring before the House to address these serious issues? It is now regarded as being as simple to order a hit——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must stop. If everybody did that we would be here for the night.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

It is as simple to order a hit as to order a cup of coffee. Are we serious about this business or not? The Ceann Comhairle knows about it as well as I do.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Taoiseach answer on the criminal justice legislation? I presume the list tells the story.

The Taoiseach

Which Bill is the Deputy asking about?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Which of the Bills proposed by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform is likely to address the most serious issues facing the country in the criminal justice area? Which Bills will cover organised crime and will update legislation?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Government has published the list.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I do not want to go through the list of Bills.

The Taoiseach

The Minister is dealing with several Bills in this area. Deputies can put questions to Ministers to inquire in detail about any aspect of policy. With respect, the Order of Business is not the means to amplify that to any great extent. Under Standing Orders, I am required on the Order of Business to indicate what stage legislation has reached, not to give detail of the legislation or the policy behind it.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 28 Jan 2009