It is proposed to take No. 3, Criminal Justice (Surveillance) Bill 2009 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 21, Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 22, Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 — Second Stage (resumed).
Private Members' business shall be No. 68, motion re infrastructure stimulus package (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach once again about the establishment of the national asset management agency. Today we read in the newspapers that the Minister is proposing to set it up on a non-statutory basis. This is the most potentially high-cost institution ever created in this State. It is taking on €90 billion in loans, equivalent to 60% of our national income in impaired loans. The notion that this should be established without reference to the Dáil seems to me to be extraordinary and irresponsible. We cannot have an interim board entering into discussions and commitments that would compromise the position of the Dáil, in deciding on this issue——
Hear, hear.
——and we need to have a clear strategy from Government that has the support of the Oireachtas before we head off on this journey of discovery. I have little confidence in it and that is an issue we can debate here. However, we cannot have the Minister proceeding in the way he proposes. I ask the Taoiseach to pin this down, once and for all. What is the legislative intention? How are we to set a framework so that this body answers to the Dáil and responds to the Dáil's approach on this issue and not to any other entity?
It is unbelievable that the Minister should make up his mind and then, drip by drip, feed stuff to the newspapers. When it does not seem to work, the notion is "change the policy". All of the evidence from Sweden, Finland and other countries, which got through similar messes, indicates that transparency and the sharing of information with parties, including those in opposition, was critical to solving their particular economic collapses such as the one in Ireland.
The Deputy has failed to mention legislation.
I asked the Taoiseach twice last week whether we could have a serious and detailed debate on NAMA. There are about 25 important reasonable questions that every business person in the country——
The House can only deal with the legislation.
——is asking about NAMA. We have no forum in which to address those questions, other than picking up leaks to the media. We have a Minister who is dithering, chopping and changing his mind every other day.
I am going to deal with the legislation now. I cannot allow speeches on that. We will hear the Taoiseach on the legislation.
The scenario has changed every couple of days. Now we are hearing that NAMA will not be a super agency and the banks will hold onto the management of their toxic debts. Will the Taoiseach say what exactly is happening and whether he will provide for this really important debate?
No, I cannot allow this.
On the legislation——
That is what I am talking about.
——can we have a debate? Regardless of its colour, we need a White Paper or a Green Paper for a very detailed discussion on this issue.
The Taoiseach, on the legislation.
The country is going down the tubes and the Taoiseach wants to do it behind closed doors.
I cannot allow any more latitude now on that. The Taoiseach on NAMA.
Legislation to establish and govern the operation of the national asset management agency will be introduced during the summer legislative session. Initial work on the preparation of the legislation is under way in parallel with preparations for the operation of the agency. As the Minister said, he is considering the establishment of it on a non-statutory interim basis with a view to undertaking the initial scoping work required. That is often done in regard to setting up agencies such as this. Rather than waiting for the legislative base and then deciding how we will proceed, let us do everything in parallel——
This is a journey of discovery. One cannot go down that road without some underpinning from the Oireachtas. That is crucial. The Taoiseach is asking the taxpayers to expose themselves to huge potential loses.
It is being done.
It is not being done.
I referred to initial scoping work and logistical issues. One must get on with preparing the agency to become operational upon enactment of the legislation.
The legitimate issues which need to be asked about this must be asked and answered in this House before we create some body roaming around making commitments and taking approaches to something——
Does the Taoiseach wish to make another comment on that?
I have answered the question twice.
My question is about the publication of the legislation, which is in order. In his Supplementary Budget Statement we were given the impression by the Minister for Finance that the legislation to establish an bord bailout would be introduced quickly. The Taoiseach has now said it will be some time in the summer legislative session. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, was reported in a newspaper at the weekend as saying the legislation would be available in two weeks. The Tánaiste told us last Thursday the heads of the Bill would be published shortly. Now the Minister for Finance has said he will establish it on some kind of a non-statutory basis.
Will the Taoiseach be precise about when the legislation and the heads of the Bill will be published, as promised by the Tánaiste last Thursday? I understand the job of the NAMA will be to acquire property but it cannot do that unless it has legal authority to do so and is a legal entity. Any advance work would seem to be around the area of the valuing and discounting of properties which I understood was to be part of its work. It does not have a legal basis to do that until legislation is enacted.
What will a non-statutory an bord bailout do? It will not have legal authority to do anything. There is considerable confusion about this and the Taoiseach should clarify exactly when we will see the legislation and the heads of the Bill.
I support the appeals of the earlier contributors in regard to the proposed establishment of the national asset management agency. The Opposition voices can, and should, make an important input into the consideration of how this agency should be established and the work with which it will be entrusted. It is the single biggest roll of a dice with public funding given all the risk factors involved.
It is crucial there is full consideration and that we are not left having to react and respond to legislation in a take it or leave it situation with minuscule and minor amendments being considered as a sop to Opposition voices. The central thrust of the Government's approach must be included in the legislation.
There must be full consideration and some value and respect given to the concerns to which Opposition voices have referred time after time since this was announced in the supplementary budget announced by the Minister for Finance. I appeal that the Taoiseach allows for proper debate on this matter before it proceeds to a point of such certainty that there will be no Government or Opposition substantive amendment arising out of the discussion on the legislation in the House.
In the interests of transparency, the Minister made the policy announcement as to what direction the Government would take in regard to this matter in his Supplementary Budget Statement. We have said the heads of the Bill will be prepared in the coming weeks. The agency will be put on a statutory basis. In the meantime, and quite properly, preparations are being made so that when the legislation is enacted, the agency will become operational immediately thereafter and will get on with its business, including assessing the situation in regard to the logistical questions. Human resources and recruitment processes must be worked out.
One can do nothing, wait for the legislation to be enacted and then spend more time going off to get people or one can do that in the meantime and ensure that when the agency is given statutory authority, it can get on with its business. That is what is happening and what happens when any organisation is set up. That is how we will proceed. There is no mystery about it. When we debate the legislation in the House, we will be able to debate all these issues.
This morning I heard about a proposed programme of information by the HSE whereby it proposes to travel around the country explaining its inadequacies. I thought it had already done enough in that regard. Perhaps it might be possible to introduce the health information Bill so that Members might have an opportunity to discuss the issue and other issues relevant to public health.
I tried to think of something to encourage Green Party Ministers to come into the House for the Order of Business, which is also the objective of the Ceann Comhairle and everybody else. I am aware there is more important legislation about but would it be possible to introduce the Communications Regulation (Amendment) Bill 2007 so that we could see a Green Party Minister because I was beginning to doubt my own sight as to whether they were in the House? I do not see them.
There is no need for a colour piece.
That is Deputy Durkan's problem.
Does Deputy White believe I have a problem with my sight? She might have a problem with her sight as well.
I understand the Communications Regulation (Amendment) Bill is due in this session. I hope the heads of the health information Bill will be brought to Government in the coming weeks and we can deal with those issues at that stage.
The Minister for Transport recently introduced, by way of secondary legislation, penalty points for drivers who have not undertaken a NCT. A problem has arisen with the backlog of NCT tests. The Minister suggested a solution whereby people could carry proof of an appointment to avoid getting penalty points.
I cannot go into that now.
I am afraid the Ceann Comhairle has to. The problem is that one can only book a test five weeks in advance as there are no tests available within five weeks——
I cannot go into that now.
——so one cannot carry proof.
Is the Deputy asking about legislation or regulation?
Is there any chance of withdrawing the secondary legislation until the backlog is cleared?
We cannot have questions on the withdrawal of secondary legislation.
What if we have brought in legislation which cannot be implemented?
If we started asking questions about what——
The world would come to an end. It isAlice in Wonderland stuff.
My good friend Deputy Durkan has not noticed that one of the Green Party Deputies in the House is wearing her black mourning suit. I am sure she will wear it more often after 5 June when the local elections decide her party's fate.
The attire of Members is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Having raised the fate of the national monuments Bill yesterday, when can we expect the publication of the heritage fund Bill which I hope will not be put on the back burner?
There is no date for that.
The Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008 was on the clár a couple of weeks ago but dropped off it. Will we have an opportunity to consider it before the end of the session?
The Taoiseach probably heard a cacophony of thousands of taxi drivers driving up and down outside his office yesterday.
We are drifting off. That is not in order.
It is in order.
I must decide. No, it is not in order.
Six or eight weeks have passed since the Goodbody report on the taxi industry was submitted to the Minister, Deputy Dempsey. We have not had a chance to discuss it on the floor of the House. Everybody agrees that the taxi industry needs fundamental reform. Would it be possible for the Government to give us a chance to debate the Goodbody report before the end of this session?
This matter can be discussed with the Chief Whip. I understand the report is out for public consultation at the moment.
What about the Harbours (Amendment) Bill 2008?
The Second Stage debate on that Bill will be arranged by the Whips.
According to the Government's legislative schedule, a DNA database Bill, which will allow for the storage by the Garda Síochána of certain material, is to be published. In that context, will the Taoiseach have a word with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and one of his retained Ministers of State, Deputy Mansergh, about the reports that it cost €1,000 to change a light bulb in a Garda station?
A question has been asked about that already.
In the context of Colm McCarthy's forthcoming report, that seems to be somewhat excessive.
We cannot discuss the cost of light bulbs on the Order of Business.
Will the Taoiseach talk to the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, about this extraordinary suggestion?
The forthcoming criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill is necessary to take account of a European court judgment of December 2008. The court's decision, in a case relating to the arrangements for the retention and destruction of DNA samples and profiles and fingerprints taken from people who are not charged or who are acquitted, was that indefinite retention should not be permitted. When the Bill is published, it will take account of that judgment. Work on this complex and comprehensive Bill is progressing. Great care is required during the drafting of the Bill. The Minister hopes to try to have it published before the end of this session.
