Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Jul 2009

Vol. 687 No. 4

Leaders’ Questions.

Deputy Enda Kenny

This may be the last opportunity we have to question the Taoiseach before the vote for the House to rise for the summer recess. It is perfectly obvious to everybody that there is a jobs crisis. I was looking at the Taoiseach's acceptance speech on his appointment to office and noted it contained no reference at all, good, bad or indifferent, to jobs, either in English or Irish. Some of the comments he made were quite interesting. He stated, "The movement of our people is now by choice; in the past, it was by force of circumstance. [. . .] However, Ireland in 2008 is a much better place to live for more of our people than ever before. [This is true.] Far fewer of our people are struggling on the margins of society."

In the well-publicised speech the Taoiseach made to the Dublin Chamber of Commerce on 5 February this year, he pulled no punches and made no bones about the fact that the jobs crisis was the central focus of the Government. He stated jobs must be the priority in the coming years, with which I agree. In this regard, Fine Gael has put forward a detailed, costed plan for the protection and creation of 180,000 jobs. IBEC, the Construction Industry Federation and ICTU have produced plans for job creation. In this regard, I agree with Mr. Danny McCoy, Mr. David Begg and Mr. Tom Parlon on the necessity to create jobs. The plans are by no means perfect but they are plans nevertheless and contain targets and objectives.

Given that there are now 418,000 on the live register and that small businesses are going to the wall by the day, what is the Government's plan job creation? How many jobs does it expect to create in the next six months, and how does it expect to achieve this?

The Taoiseach

Any plan to create jobs must be predicated on a return to growth in the Irish economy. The quickest way to achieve this is to take three steps: bring order to the public finances; make the economy more competitive; and restructure the banking industry. We have been providing further resources for training, education and job retention. The bottom line is that, in a small open economy, restoring economic growth is the best means by which we can save, maintain and grow jobs.

Growing jobs in the teeth of the worst international recession in seven decades is the context in which the Leader of the Opposition is speaking. It is time for everyone in the House to accept and adapt policies that ensure growth returns to the economy sooner rather than later. That can only be achieved by focusing on the three major areas about which I have spoken. We must restore order to the public finances, increase economic competitiveness so people can compete in the new circumstances in which we find ourselves — we have improved competitiveness by 7% in respect of unit labour costs alone this year vis-à-vis our European competitors — and ensuring more credit is available in the economy in the aftermath of the biggest seismic shock in the financial world in modern economic history.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

The Taoiseach should record that and turn it on every day if that is all he has to say.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The Taoiseach has pointed out three objectives of the Government. When appointed as Taoiseach, he said, "We know only too well from our relatively recent economic history that the wrong policies, the wrong decisions, the wrong behaviour, can carry a very high price in an economy as open and dependent on international trade as we are." These words are true. The IMF report, which we debated in the House last week, indicated clearly that this economy was overheating during the Taoiseach's reign as Minister for Finance. The Taoiseach is correct to state the wrong policies, decisions and behaviour can carry a very high price. That high price is now being borne by every household in the country because people have lost their jobs or their jobs are threatened. If the Government was big enough to accept its own mistakes and admit to having been wrong, it would be much farther down the road towards achieving national consensus on what we must do.

I agreed with the Taoiseach that it is important that every single job be protected. That is why last week I told the Taoiseach to have the Fine Gael proposal examined and costed and come back to us with his considered opinion. We will supply our personnel today to the Taoiseach because this is far too important an issue to indulge in the normal political rant that can take place here.

Deputies Bruton, Coveney and our party have put forward a plan which is costed, has proposals to protect 80,000 jobs and create 100,000 and which can use money from cash rich Irish pension funds or the European Investment Bank or some from the National Pensions Reserve Fund. Surely in light of the Taoiseach's words to the Dublin Chamber of Commerce on 5 February, "jobs, jobs, jobs has to be the priority in the coming years", let me take this lst opportunity to question the Taoiseach before we are forced into a summer recess——

Deputy John Cregan

The Deputy can say what he likes——

Deputy Enda Kenny

Yes. The Government parties will all vote on it later despite the fact that all over the country Fianna Fáil Deputies are on local radio stations saying the House should sit through all of July.

Deputy John Cregan

Deputy Kenny will be gone on Thursday.

Deputy Enda Kenny

On this last day of questions to the Taoiseach, in the interests of moving our country forward and of transcending the normal political cut and thrust, I offer our plan to him. If he takes it and implements it I will give him credit and support him.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

The Deputy had a contract.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I await the Taoiseach's considered opinion. Will he take that and agree that while it may have flaws it has the capacity to protect and create 180,000 jobs? Surely any Taoiseach should examine that on the basis of his own words that jobs are the priority.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

They are paralysed.

The Taoiseach

I am not in the business of playing games on the last day of Leader's Questions for this session.

Deputy P. J. Sheehan

The Taoiseach has been playing too long.

The Taoiseach

That is assuming that Deputy Kenny is not playing games.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

The game is up.

The Taoiseach

Here we go again. That is Deputy McCormack's job every morning.

A Deputy

Deputy McCormack should go back to sleep for a while like a good man.

The Taoiseach

The Government has plans in place, the smart economy, some of which Fine Gael took up in its document and which the Government is implementing. The plans for restructuring the banking system are in place, will be pursued and are gaining support internationally and at home. Someone who was involved in the reconstruction of the Swedish banking system spoke to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Services yesterday and supported our approach. He did not support the idea of resiling from commitments to bond holders which is the central plank of Fine Gael's supposed proposal on banking.

In the interests of avoiding partisanship this morning and the importance of the issues to be dealt with, the Government is dealing with all matters on a planned basis. Part of that correction must involve reducing expenditure. Fine Gael's policy is more cuts but no cuts, that is Fine Gael's problem.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Our policy was made clear before the Government's budget.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Some things never change.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

No wonder the country is in the state it is in.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

On this, the last day that the Taoiseach will be answering questions here before September, at the earliest, he has told us that the Government has three economic objectives, to improve competitiveness, to sort out the banks and to restore order to the public finances. Before we rise on Friday and the Dáil breaks for the summer I want to know what that means. The public is entitled to know what each of those objectives means.

I have seen no evidence of anything that Government has done to improve competitiveness. All I have seen is the reverse. Increasing VAT for example, has worsened competitiveness for Irish business. Three months ago the Government told us that its strategy for restoring the banks was to establish the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA. We do not have the legislation to do that, we do not have a precise date for its introduction and when Deputy Burton asked the Taoiseach for a timetable for the NAMA process he was at best vague about it yesterday. Before the Government puts the Dáil into recess for the summer we need to see the NAMA legislation, have it published and, if necessary, address it in the House.

The Taoiseach has told us that the recommendations of the McCarthy report will put order on the public finances. We have not seen the report. We have been told only that Mr. McCarthy was to report before the end of June. That did not happen. With each passing week as we came closer to the recess the submissions of the report has drifted until it is clear that the Government's intention is to receive it after the Dáil goes into recess, or certainly after we have had an opportunity to question the Taoiseach and Ministers about it here, and selectively leak its contents in a softening up exercise during the summer. I want to see the report before we break for the summer.

Will the NAMA legislation be published before the House rises for the summer? Will the McCarthy report be published before then? If the Taoiseach cannot assure us that will be done before Friday will he assure us that the House will continue in session until both of those essential pieces of information are put into the public domain and we know where we stand on the Taoiseach's strategy for the economy before the Dáil goes into recess for the summer?

The Taoiseach

We have outlined our strategy in our supplementary budget. We set out our budgetary position for the course of 2009. We indicated at the beginning of this year that all spending programmes would be reviewed and we employed some people to help with that. They are bringing forward their recommendations. The Minister for Finance expects to have that report this week. It is not envisaged that we would act on that report on its receipt, it is part of the budgetary process for 2010. The Minister made it clear in the supplementary budget announcement for 2009 that the adjustments for 2009 have been made in respect of the budget introduced last October and the supplementary budget introduced last April. That was the case at all times.

We will now begin Estimates and preparation for the 2010 budget starting from adoption of a budgetary strategy after mid-year. That work will continue throughout the autumn. There will be plenty of opportunity in the next session for Deputies to discuss all aspects of expenditure policy in a range of areas. The Government will make the decisions on the precise areas of savings, which are necessary, unavoidable, which will not be in any way painless but which must be made in the interest of correcting the public finances and having a prospect of growing the economy as quickly as possible. We know from recent economic history that deferral of that sort of decision under previous Administrations at certain times——

Deputy Pádraic McCormack

Under the Taoiseach's Administration.

The Taoiseach

——greatly prolonged the period within which Ireland will be able to come back into growth and create jobs again. Those are the facts.

The Minister indicated at all times that he hopes to have the NAMA legislation prepared by July. I believe that timetable will be met. It will be published after the Government has approved it. There will be ample time for everyone to study it. We will come back here in mid-September and have the opportunity to debate and enact the legislation, which is essential and must be enacted.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

We had a somewhat similar exchange at exactly this time last year when I, on behalf of the Labour Party, asked the Taoiseach not to put the Dáil into recess because of the deteriorating economic situation. I proposed a motion at the time in which I said that the live register figures had gone through the 200,000 barrier and that the economic situation was deteriorating. At the time the Taoiseach seemed to adopt the attitude that the economic business of the country was the private business of the Government which would do what it had to do. It returned here last September in a panic and stumbled from one crisis to another ever since. It would appear that the Government has learned nothing.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The Taoiseach is still behaving like this despite the economic difficulties which people have, with the number of unemployed twice what it was last year. There was a report yesterday from the city and county development boards showing that half the businesses with which they have been in contact are finding it more difficult now to get credit from financial institutions than they did six months ago.

The Taoiseach has come in here and told us that he does not want to defer decisions but he has done nothing else.

The Taoiseach

That is not true.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

This is not the Taoiseach's own business or a matter for private discussion by the Government. It is public business.

The Taoiseach

Of course it is.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The state of the economy is public business and the Taoiseach is withholding from the public. It is not about courtesy to the House, although that may come into it as well. That is not what the issue primarily concerns. The Taoiseach is withholding the McCarthy report; there is some nonsense about it not being delivered or that we will get it later in the week and discuss it then.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The Taoiseach knows what is in the McCarthy report.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Every word.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

He has it and is simply delaying the receipt of it so he will not have to publish it or answer for it here in the course of debate. If that is to be the basis of how the Government is to deal with public expenditure and the delivery of public services for the rest of this year into 2010, we must see what is in the report. He should put it on the table before the House breaks for the summer.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

There is uncertainty in banking and it is three months since the announcement of the NAMA strategy for dealing with the issue. The Taoiseach is addressing the legislation as if it is some obscure amendment to an old statute where the Parliamentary Counsel or Minister has not got around to preparing the heads of the appropriate Bill. On the day of the supplementary budget the Minister for Finance said it was urgent legislation. Three months later and on the eve of the Dáil going into recess for the summer, we do not have the legislation or an exact date for its introduction.

The Taoiseach cannot give us a timetable for the NAMA process and there is continuing uncertainty in banking. He is dithering and delaying, and his incompetence is creating even further difficulties for the country's economy. This is being paid for week in, week out by people who are losing their jobs and businesses which are going to the wall.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Hear, hear.

Deputy Ruairí Quinn

Hear, hear.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

More soundbite politics from the Deputy.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has produced another rhetorical flourish. This Government has been making decisions but it is clear there has been very little support from the Opposition for the necessary decisions.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Absolutely.

Deputy Seymour Crawford

That is rubbish.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Has the Taoiseach even looked at our proposals?

Deputy Emmet Stagg

The Government has the overall majority.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy asked about the NAMA legislation.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

It has a majority and should get on with it.

The Taoiseach

The Opposition cannot listen. They did not get long enough to speak and want more time.

Deputy Noel Dempsey

There is a new leader in the Labour Party.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Gilmore was listened to in silence and the Taoiseach must be afforded the same courtesy.

The Taoiseach

With regard to the NAMA legislation, the Minister made it very clear at the outset that he believed it would be September before it would be up and running.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

Do we even have the heads of a Bill?

The Taoiseach

It is an arduous process and a complex piece of legislation, as people know. It is being prepared and will be brought forward in July.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach should try it with us. We could understand it, although those on the Government side may not.

The Taoiseach

There will be an opportunity for everybody to study it and enact it in September.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

Lending has stopped since the Government stated it was to introduce NAMA.

The Taoiseach

With regard to the lack of credit in the community, the Labour Party did not even back the bank guarantee, which brought about stability.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

That was right.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

We were right.

The Taoiseach

The Labour Party was not right.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

It will cost the taxpayer a fortune.

The Taoiseach

The IMF has indicated the Labour Party was not right. A witness attending the meeting yesterday of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service also said that such a policy was not the right one. I suppose the party's committee members did not attend that meeting.

Deputy Joan Burton

He also said that NAMA would be a costly disaster.

The Taoiseach

He did not

Deputy John Cregan

That is the truth.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

The Taoiseach

I would rather address the issues which were raised.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Taoiseach should read the full contribution. It is on the record.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Burton has no involvement in Leaders' Questions.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

The Taoiseach will do it his way anyway.

The Taoiseach

That is the position. There is no mystique or dithering. We have made a decision to bring forward the legislation and we have indicated a timeline, which we will stick to. The Opposition will not support it because it has been playing the populist game by saying we are bailing out the banks from the day we had difficulty with financial stability in this country.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

They are soundbites.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

It is a difficulty the Government created.

The Taoiseach

The Labour Party will get its soundbite from that. It can keep at it because that is the way it wants to go. In the meantime we will do what is necessary to take the distressed assets off those balance sheets and get credit into the Irish economy flowing more quickly, with or without the Opposition's support.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

When will that happen? It is a pity it was not done in time.

The Taoiseach

If we cannot get it, unfortunately we will have to do without it.

Deputy Frank Feighan

In another year all the shops will be closed.

The Taoiseach

With regard to the McCarthy report, that informs the Government's consideration of the budgetary position for 2010. There will be cuts and savings and I look forward to the Labour Party being prepared to support an approach that brings our public finances back into order. I doubt it will happen.

Deputy Michael D. Higgins

What about employment?

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Bring them all out to the circus.