Vol. 690 No. 3
116 Deputy Michael Ring asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the concerns raised as to the level of value for money that has been delivered by schemes and bodies operating under the remit of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34096/09]
The achievement of value for money for each of the schemes and programmes it delivers and funds from its Vote is a priority for my Department. Similarly, ensuring systems are in place to secure value for money across the bodies that are funded from my Department is also a key priority.
Against this background, my Department has put in place a range of financial monitoring, performance measurement and systems review mechanisms. These include the regular carrying out of independent audits, value for money, VFM, reviews, programme evaluations and the measurement of programme and scheme outputs against targets set in the annual output statement. The findings arising from each of these review and evaluation systems are monitored by my Department and acted upon.
I should also advise the Deputy that a programme of direct project verification and evaluation is carried out by my Department's dedicated inspection services and where value for money issues arise, these are followed up.
As the Deputy will be aware, I am committed to meeting on a regular basis the many people, groups and communities across the country that my Department serves. Where issues or concerns are raised with me on value for money issues regarding schemes and programmes delivered by my Department, or in the context of bodies funded from its Vote, I can assure the Deputy that any such issue or concern is followed up assiduously.
This Department has probably come under the most scrutiny as a result of the report of an bord snip nua. An bord snip nua recommended abolishing the Department, discontinuing the RAPID programme, reductions in funding for community and voluntary support and phasing out the CLÁR programme. However, the most damning matter is that the Department of Finance raised fundamental questions to the Minister in written format on whether we are getting value for money from Údarás na Gaeltachta. Údarás na Gaeltachta could not provide information to the Department on how much it was costing per job, on its level of debt and on the amount of grants paid out.
I want to make my own commitment. I am committed to rural Ireland. I am committed to this Department. Fine Gael is committed to rural Ireland, but we are also committed to getting value for money. If the Department of Finance is worried about us not getting value to money, I want to know what the Minister has done since he received the letter from that Department querying his Department on value for money, and what precautions he has put in place. Has the Minister contacted Údarás na Gaeltachta to see whether it can give the Department the information on staffing and on the cost per job? What has he done since that letter was sent to him from the Department of Finance?
Information on staffing at Údarás na Gaeltachta is readily available to my Department, which monitors the organisation on an ongoing basis. Údarás has a good record in job creation; for example, 1,269 new jobs were created in Údarás-assisted companies in 2008, while full-time employment in Údarás-supported enterprises was 8,193.
One of the issues that arises is that of the cost per job, which is sometimes queried. I have made criticisms in this regard in the past, and I understand Forfás has now moved away from the cost-per-job measure and is employing a more complicated and thorough way of considering value for money. I recently met representatives of the board of Údarás to discuss this issue. My view was that in considering the cost per job we must also consider the sustainability of the job. Thus, if we spend money on an industry that goes on for 30 or 40 years, the cost per job, taking into account the years of operation and the repayment to the State in taxes and so on, cannot be compared to that of a company that lasts for five years. Therefore, I stressed to the representatives of Údarás that they must consider the sustainability of the jobs created, the risk element, and the benefit to the Irish language. The latter consideration applies to Údarás more than to any other State agency. I would put a higher premium, for example, on jobs created by Údarás that not only sustain viable employment in the Gaeltacht but also sustain the language in the area. That is the whole justification for having a separate agency in the Gaeltacht.
The Taoiseach recently said while speaking to a radio station or TG4 — I am not sure which — that he would retain the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. Has the Minister spoken personally to the Taoiseach about this, and has he assured the Minister the Department will be left intact in light of the McCarthy report?
Has the Minister monitored the schemes he set up — some of which are very good — to see whether we are getting value for money? If not, will he put something in place to monitor them? I want to see real jobs for real people in rural Ireland.
As the Deputy knows, I always look out for value for money. The Deputy mentioned schemes I was particularly associated with setting up, of which I will take three examples. The rural social scheme, which costs €7,000 more per year than keeping the same person on unemployment benefit or farm assist, is incredibly good value for money in terms of the amount of work done. The report I launched recently at the National Ploughing Championships will testify that the payback from the scheme is a large multiple of the amount of money we put in. In addition, when one considers the social benefit of providing these people with employment and preventing them from living a lonely life without any outside activity other than farming, one must conclude the scheme is a success.
Because of the CLÁR programme, there are houses in rural Ireland that have water from group schemes; we were willing to provide a top-up to prevent people in rural Ireland from paying inflated costs for water, and that was justified. I have been very strict with local authorities, as the Deputy knows. In his own county I refused to pay because the local authority did the work first and then applied for the grant. Anybody who tells me it is not a worthy social objective to give high-quality piped water to the houses of rural Ireland does not understand the problem.
The local improvement scheme for roads project has also been good value, although I have questioned the prices given by local authorities and so on. We do our best to monitor these matters, but I believe it is value for money. If we move on to rural recreation——
Has the Minister spoken to the Taoiseach about keeping the Department?
The issue of the configuration of Departments is, as I have said time and again, solely one for the Taoiseach. I heard what he said on TG4 and I leave that utterly to his discretion.
117 Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the recommendation contained in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes that the allocation for local and community development programmes should be cut by €44 million; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34306/09]
As indicated to this House on a number of occasions, the recommendations in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes represent a set of options for consideration in the context of the 2010 budget and will fall to be examined by the Government at the appropriate time. Any decisions on the specific matter referred to by the Deputy will be made in that context.
Like Deputy Ring, I am interested in rural Ireland and the local and community initiatives that have been undertaken. My concern in this regard is that although expenditure will be decided in the context of the budget, the recommendations have been put into the public arena now. I have listened to the Minister say he has conducted reviews and so on. However, in the McCarthy report it is stated, "There is little evidence of positive outcomes for these initiatives." My concern is that the Minister of State and his line Minister did not put their case strongly enough to the group. Did they put any case at all, or was it the Department of Finance that did all the running? That matter must be cleared up.
We heard the Tánaiste, Deputy Coughlan, say there were many things in the McCarthy report with which she did not agree, and there are certainly many with which we on this side of the House do not agree. I am talking about reductions in the allocation not only for local community development programmes but also for many other programmes. In recommending a reduction in the allocation for the community services programme, the report states, "There is little information available on the outcomes achieved through the scheme." It seems the Ministers did absolutely nothing——
It is an absolute joke.
——in terms of making a presentation to the McCarthy group to try to obtain a positive outcome. It is no wonder the group then concluded there was no evidence with regard to these programmes and stated the Department was not worth having in the first place.
The McCarthy report is an independent report. The Deputy mentioned specific instances in which the report was not supportive of programmes or stated there was little evidence for positive outcomes. I do not agree there is little evidence of positive outcomes from those initiatives. I refer in particular to the local development social inclusion programme and the community development programme. It is my objective that my Department's schemes and programmes, whether delivered directly or on the Department's behalf, give good value for money and meet the needs of all the communities and people we serve. In this regard, they are quite successful. My belief is based on successive independent reviews, audits and studies and, more importantly — the Deputy will agree with this — the detailed feedback I receive directly from communities and groups on a daily basis.
That being said, I have had concerns for some time about the manner in which we have programmes running in parallel. I knew we needed to redesign the community development and social inclusion programmes and it is in that regard I made the announcement a number of weeks ago that the programme would be redesigned to provide a single mechanism of delivery in order to be more effective and streamlined. However, I do not agree with the comment that these programmes do not deliver benefits for communities. I have seen it first hand. More importantly, however, these programmes have been running for a number of years and we have had a number of independent reviews and audits of their outcomes.
I conclude from that reply that the Minister of State's opinion is the same as my own — he does not agree with the recommendation in the McCarthy report that the financing of these schemes be reduced.
Did the Department make a submission to the McCarthy group or did it meet with the group about the assessment of the Department?
My understanding is that Department officials met with the McCarthy group; neither I nor the Minister did. In case there is any misunderstanding, I reiterate that while the report specifically stated there was little evidence of the benefits of certain schemes, I do not agree with that statement, and I do see their benefits.
118 Deputy Michael Ring asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has received representations on the proposed withdrawal of supports to Gaeltacht households supporting students attending Irish language courses; his position with regard to this scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34111/09]
I confirm that representations have been made to me on this matter by CONCOS, the Irish summer colleges' representative body, and by householders in the Gaeltacht who accommodate Irish students while attending such colleges. On 2 September 2009 I addressed a meeting of college representatives and householders from around the Gaeltacht on the subject. As I indicated, the recommendations in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes represent a set of options for consideration in the context of the 2010 budget and will fall to be examined by Government at the appropriate time. Issues relating to the Gaeltacht and the Irish language will also fall to be considered by the Cabinet Committee on Irish and the Gaeltacht in the context of its work in the preparation of the 20 year strategy for Irish.
Abolition of this scheme would be the greatest national scandal. There are three Gaeltacht areas in my constituency of Mayo to which people and families from Dublin and all over the country come to learn and to speak Irish. This provides an income for many people in those areas. This year, but for the Irish colleges, there would have been little tourism in the Gaeltacht.
I want the Minister to assure the people involved in this scheme that the grant will be available to them next year. They need to know this now to plan for next year. These people have already endured cutbacks this year by the Department of Education and Science in terms of grant aid. The Minister and his Department are responsible for promotion of the Irish language. The Minister already referred to the Irish language strategy.
I disagree with the Minister's remarks on the McCarthy report. It is a Government report. It was paid for by Government.
It is an independent report.
Officials in the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs recommend the abolition of some of these schemes. Will the Minister reassure the people involved in the Gaeltacht and promotion of the Irish language that this scheme will continue next year and that the necessary grant aid will be available? It is only right that it should continue. There is no point in being hypocritical in terms of promoting the Irish language if at the same time we introduce measures that take people away from the Gaeltacht.
I am delighted to hear the Deputy supports this scheme.
I do.
My grandfather, Sean Ó Cuív, proposed setting up the first Irish college in Baile na Gharraí in 1903. I, too, was involved in setting up an Irish college. The Irish colleges benefit the Irish language. Some 95% of people surveyed stated they are favourably disposed towards the language. I attribute much of this to the generations of people who have had positive experiences learning the language in the Gaeltacht. The Irish language has brought Gaeltacht and non-Gaeltacht areas together. I have often remarked that many people here have an attachment to Gaeltacht areas be it in Donegal, Mayo, Kerry or Galway. It is good to note that the numbers of people visiting the Gaeltacht are holding up despite the downturn in the economy. The only significant drop has been in Donegal.
Everybody, including the media and the Opposition, agrees that cutbacks are necessary but no one will state in what areas these cutbacks should be made. The Government will have to make hard choices and will have to make cutbacks. However, in making those hard choices I will reflect on the support Deputy Ring has shown today for the Irish colleges. I take from the Deputy's support that regardless of what cuts are imposed by my Department he would not wish to see any in this area.
I confirm to the House and to the people involved——
The normal procedure is that the Minister answers questions posed by the Opposition.
I support the Minister and I call on him to announce this week that the necessary grant aid will be provided next year to allow the people involved to make their plans. More important, has the Minister made representations to the Department of Finance to ensure that funding will be in place for next year?
I know from where savings can be made. Do not go ahead with NAMA and take some of the money being given to the banks and invest it in the Gaeltacht areas. That is a simple solution.
I wish it were. Obviously, the Deputy has not listened to what I had to say. If we were to do anything as foolish as allow the collapse of the banking system there would be no Irish colleges and so on.
I disagree with the Minister.
We can have that debate another day.
NAMA is the cause of the problem.
On the specific question, I cannot give any assurances on any of the programmes ahead of the budget.
On discussions, the Cabinet and not the Department of Finance will decide the allocations to Ministers. We will have detailed collective discussions in terms of arriving at a budget that is acceptable and ensures savings. I again thank the Deputy for his support for this scheme. When making choices, we will note that this scheme is one the Deputy values highly.
Táimid uilig ar an taobh seo den Teach ag tabhairt tacaíochta don Aire maidir leis na coláistí Gaeilge.
119 Deputy Catherine Byrne asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he is confident that the new national drugs strategy will reduce the extent of the drug problem here; his views on whether the actions outlined in this strategy are workable and will have positive end results; his further views on the fact that the realisation of many of these actions are dependant on adequate funding from several Departments, which has not been guaranteed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33441/09]
I am confident that the National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 will significantly tackle the problem of drug misuse in Ireland over the period of its implementation.
As the Deputy is aware, in developing the new strategy I established a steering group comprising representatives of all relevant sectors to develop proposals and to make recommendations to me. The Government subsequently accepted the recommendations of this broadly based group. I am satisfied that in developing the strategy full consideration was given to all aspects of the drugs problem, including through the comprehensive consultation process involved.
The strategy seeks to tackle the harm caused to individuals and society by the misuse of drugs through a concerted focus on the five pillars of supply reduction, prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and research. This pillar approach is being retained as it has to date proved effective, was widely supported throughout the consultation process and dovetails with the EU Action Plan on Drugs 2009-2012. The associated actions of the strategy comprise a well thought out plan of what needs to be done to achieve the overall strategic objective. They are workable and will have positive results.
Among other things the new strategy focuses on the co-ordination arrangements. The changes made in institutional structures facilitate the Minister who is given responsibility by Government for the drugs strategy to effectively fulfil that role. These changes will also streamline administration and facilitate more effective co-ordination and partnership.
Funding will be scarce over the coming years and we must ensure optimum use of available resources. However, it is important to be aware that these resources are considerable, with the estimated expenditure on the drugs problem across Departments and agencies in 2009 being in excess of €275 million.
As part of the strategy I will twice a year meet various Ministers and officials directly involved in seeking to address the drugs problem. At these meetings, which have already commenced, I will endeavour to ensure that high priority is given within Departments and agencies to achievement of the actions of the strategy. I will also stress the importance of the continued effective implementation of other programmes that impact on the factors underpinning problem drug use.
As part of the institutional arrangements to support the work of the office of the Minister with responsibility for drugs, the strategy provides for the establishment of an oversight forum on drugs. The forum, which I will chair, will have its first meeting this month and progress across the strategy will be reviewed and blockages addressed. The difficulties facing our society as a consequence of problem drug use are significant and addressing all the factors involved is an onerous undertaking, whether in the area of reducing supply, improving treatment and rehabilitation or continuing to promulgate the prevention message with a view to effecting attitudinal change in Irish society. However, I am determined that real progress will be made across the period of the new strategy, with all sectors working in a co-ordinated and targeted way to achieve implementation of the agreed actions.
It appears funding is at the top of everybody's agenda. Last week, we heard loudly and clearly from the streets the response from the community sector to local drugs task forces, after school projects and community employment schemes. While I am aware the Minister of State does not have a crystal ball it is important these groups know what funding will be available to them into the future.
The national drugs strategy report, which comprises 125 pages, lists what the statutory groups want for communities into the future and sets out what response is needed in the current crisis. The Minister of State stated that the drugs problem has changed. I agree that it has changed; it has worsened. In every community young people are getting involved on a daily basis in drug abuse. Many young people are dying because of drugs. We heard in the statement made last week by Tony Geoghegan of the Merchant's Quay project that each week 20 new people involved in drug misuse attend the services. I attended the launch of the report and I listened carefully to what the Minister of State had to say. I was struck by one of his comments, about which I was very angry. We are proud, as a nation, of our tradition of giving to communities, particularly in the Third World, and I was disappointed to hear the Elton John AIDS Foundation had to provide €750,000 towards needle exchange services in this country. I am sure there are other charities in England and elsewhere that are more needy than ours, and the Government has failed to put money into the national drugs strategy. It is a glossy document and it does not indicate to me or to the community at large what will happen in the future to many of our young people.
I refer to a statement about homelessness in the report. What plans has the Minister of State under the strategy to involve more volunteers who are the voices of communities rather than paid officials in deciding what is needed in their communities and how the problem can be tackled? Many of them are being left on the outside.
Expenditure in this area is considerable at €275 million. As I stated in reply to earlier questions, the budgetary position for next year is not known. However, it is important that these considerable resources are spent in a co-ordinated way to ensure we are achieving maximum output and delivering effective services to the groups that need them. If we believe we can make a substantial change in addressing the drugs issue, we can have all the treatment we want and seizures by the Garda but the attitude and behaviour of people ranging from children at risk, school children to adults who talk about soft drugs and recreational drugs must change. Prevention is the area where we will make the most significant change in the strategy.
The Deputy asked about the involvement of community activists. The strategy builds on community involvement through the drug task forces and, in particular, the establishment of policing fora, which provide access for community representatives. Local task forces and the new established office of the Minister for drugs have community representatives on the drug advisory group. We recognise the role community groups have to play and they have been accommodated throughout the development of the strategy.
120 D’fhiafraigh Deputy Dinny McGinley den Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cé mhéid iarratas a fuarthas ina Roinn de bharr na dtuilte a tharla i nGaoth Dobhair, i mí Meithimh seo caite, cé mhéid acu atá ceadaithe go dtí seo, cé mhéid den obair atá déanta, cé mhéid airgid atá ceadaithe agus íoctha, an mbeidh breis airgid á cheadú; agus an ndéanfaidh sé ráiteas ina thaobh. [34307/09]
Fuair mo Roinnse 114 iarratas ar chúnamh deontais ag eascairt as damáiste a rinne tuilte i nGaoth Dobhair níos luaithe i mbliana.
Go dáta, tá 18 de na hiarratais sin cáilithe ag mo Roinnse faoi Scéim na mBóithre Áise. Tá deontas de €87,000 ceadaithe agam i leith 15 cinn díobh seo a bhfuil meastacháin faighte ina leith agus tuigim go gcuirfear tús leis an obair dheisiúcháin ar na bóithre seo go luath. Maidir leis an trí iarratas eile atá cáilithe, tá mo Roinn ag fanacht le meastacháin ó Chomhairle Contae Dhún na nGall ar oibreacha deisiúcháin ar dhroichid ar na bóithre seo. Déanfar cinneadh maidir le deontais a cheadú sna cásanna seo ach na meastacháin sin a bheith curtha ar fáil.
Tá iarratais eile a bhféadfadh a bheith cáilithe faoin scéim agus déanfar cinneadh fúthu siúd chomh luath agus is féidir.
Maidir leis na deontais atá ceadaithe, déanfar íocaíocht leis an gComhairle Contae ach deimhnithe cuí a bheith faighte go bhfuil na hoibreacha deisiúcháin déanta chun sástacht mo Roinne.
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an méid eolais atá tugtha aige, go bhfuil €87,000 ceadaithe le haghaidh 15 cinn de na bóithre áise.
Rinneadh damáiste mór de bharr na dtuilte agus tá sé beagnach ceithre mhí ó tharla sin. Bhí an tAire agus an Tánaiste agus mé féin ansin cúpla lá ina dhiaidh sin agus bhí lúcháir orainn go raibh deis ag an Aire a fheiceáil cé chomh holc agus a bhí cúrsaí. Dé bharr chuairt an Aire, cuireadh 125 iarratas isteach chuig an Roinn agus ní raibh ag muintir na háite ach seachtain chun sin a dhéanamh. Rinneadh dóchar do thalamh na ndaoine seo, do na bóithre agus do na droichid. Tá 15 ceadaithe anois ach tá 110 eile nach bhfuil ceadaithe go fóill. An bhfuil sé i gceist ag an Aire agus ag an Roinn aon rud a dhéanamh faoin 110 iarratas nach bhfuil ceadaithe go fóill?
Is cosúil go bhfuair mo Roinn 114 iarratas, sin an t-eolas atá agam agus glacaim leis go bhfuil sé cruinn. Tá os cionn 60 acu seo nach bhfuil cáilithe ar chor ar bith, agus beimid ag scríobh chuig na daoine sin go luath chun sin a chur in iúl. I gcuid de na hiarratais bhí bóithre comhairle contae i gceist agus níl siad cáilithe faoi Scéim na mBóithre Áise. Ansin, bhí iarratas amháin a bhain le talamh príomháideach, rud eile nach mbaineann leis an scéim.
Ar an lá a bhí muid thíos, dúirt mé gur iarratais faoi Scéim na mBóithre Áise a bheadh i gceist. Má thógtar an 18 iarratas atá measúnaithe déanta, tá fadhb leis na droichid — caithfidh na háitreabhaigh cead a fháil faoin Acht Siltin Airtéirigh 1945 sular féidir na droichid a dheisiú agus tá meastacháin ag freastal freisin. Sin 18 ó 114, agus fágann sin níos lú ná céad. Bainfear 60 eile as sin fosta mar sin tá níos lú ná 40 go gcaithfear measúnú agus cinneadh a dhéanamh an bhfuil siad cáilithe. D'fhéadfadh cuid den 40 sin bheith cáilithe.
Nuair a bhí an tAire ansin, rinne sé, mé féin agus daoine eile scrúdaithe ar pháirceanna agus ar an fhéar a bhí loite ag na tuilte, talamh agus féar a bhfuil feirmeoirí ag brath orthu lena gcuid stoc a chothú. Más cuimhin liom, dúirt an tAire go bhféadfaí b'fhéidir cúiteamh éigin a thabhairt do na feirmeoirí. Tharla rud éigin cosúil leis sin in iarthar na hÉireann, i Maigh Éo nó áit éigin, cúpla bliain ó shin. An bhfuil scrúdú déanta ag an Aire ar chás na bhfeirmeoirí agus an bhfuil aon chúnamh gur féidir a thabhairt dóibh chun bia a cheannach do na hainmhithe fá choinne an gheimhridh atá buailte orainn i láthair na huaire?
Shíl mé go bhfuair an Teachta cóip de na nótaí a tugadh dom an t-am sin. Scríobhadh ansin má bhí cruatán i gceist do dhuine ar bith le rud éigin príobháideach, ba cheart don duine sin dul chuig an community welfare officer agus cúnamh a iarraidh uaidh. Rinne mé soiléir an lá sin go raibh mé ag caint faoi bhóithre áise agus faoi Scéim na mBóithre Áise go ndéanfaimis na bóithe nach bóithre comhairle contae iad a athchóiriú agus sin atá á dhéanamh. Aon iarratas nach mbaineann le bóthar áise, níl sé incháilithe faoin scéim a d'fhógair mé an lá sin. Má bhreathnaíonn daoine ar na foirmeacha feicfidh siad gur mar sin atá. Foirmeacha bóithre áise a cuireadh amach.
An bhfuil aon fhoinse cuidithe eile ann? Má thugann an tAire an t-eolas dom, déanfaidh mé féin an chuid eile den obair.
The community welfare officer. Má tá cruatán ar dhaoine mar gheall ar rud mar seo, dúradh sa cháipéis a scaipeadh ag an am gurb shin an dream ar cheart dul chuige, agus go bhféadfadh sé breathnú ar exceptional needs payment.
Cé atá chun an talamh a ghlanadh agus na clocha a thabhairt as? Cé a dhéanfaidh sin?
Cuirfidh mé cóip de na nótaí a bhí sa doiciméad ag an am chuig an Teachta.
Le do thoil.
