Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Dec 2009

Vol. 698 No. 1

Teagasc Office Closures.

Deputy Beverley Flynn

I wish to raise the proposed closure of the Teagasc office in Castlebar. I understand a decision was made last March at a board meeting to close 18 offices around the country and that a decision will be made in a weeks' time to close a further 28 offices. I recognise 40 offices will close and that this rationalisation is necessary for the future of Teagasc and that it must happen given the current economic situation in which we find ourselves.

Having said that, it is important that the correct offices are closed. The reason I raise this is to point out a number of facts. It is Government policy that Teagasc offices should be co-located where possible. This is also the policy of Teagasc and the policy articulated in the McCarthy report, known also as the report by an bord snip nua.

At present there is one co-located office in the country. It has been co-located in Castlebar for 33 years and it is the headquarters of the advisory service in County Mayo. Given that the national policy now supports this idea, it seems extraordinary that there is a proposal to close the only co-located office in the country. It is worth bearing in mind that the Castlebar office has 591 clients and nine staff. It is the third-largest Teagasc office in County Mayo and is centrally located in the county town. Its location, Michael Davitt House, also houses the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food offices, which most farmers have to visit several times throughout the year. It is extremely convenient for farmers and it is illogical to propose its closure at this stage.

We can consider the criteria for closing an office. The first issue is a financial or cost consideration. There is a lease in place currently in Castlebar which is €36,822 per year. It is paid by Teagasc to the Office of Public Works; that is from one State agency to another, although it is a real cost to Teagasc. There has been no attempt whatever to renegotiate this lease. Despite that, a scheme has been put in place between the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and Teagasc to co-locate six offices in the country. In return, the Department is availing of a building that Teagasc has in Athenry, which saves the Department €900,000. In return, the Department will house six Teagasc offices in six different locations around the country.

It was possible for Castlebar to be part of that scheme but it was not even considered and was hence excluded. Had it been part of the scheme, like the other six Teagasc offices co-located around the country, the lease cost would have been minimal; it would be zero in practice. The cost of the lease is not a prohibitive measure to keeping the Castlebar office open.

The next point is whether Castlebar is a co-located office. The officials of Teagasc are working side by side with the officials from the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. They share a meeting room and there is additional space in the office for between three and six more people if required. There was an offer from the Department to share a front desk facility, although this was never explored. This can be contrasted to the position in Athenry, where two separate buildings house the Department and Teagasc officials. That is described as a co-located office but there is no acknowledgement of the reality of Castlebar being a co-located office.

I have already made reference to the fact that the decision to close was made last March at a board meeting. I am concerned about the level of information presented to board members in making this decision. I recognise that Teagasc must operate independently but it is ultimately answerable to the Minister. In recent months we have become aware in this House of State agencies having a right and need to operate independently of Ministers and Departments, although it is also important that a watchful eye is kept to ensure that the best economic decisions are being made in the interests of the Government. Value for money should be maintained and that is why I draw attention to this matter now. I am aware that another board meeting will take place next week and I intend to bring the matter to the attention of board members.

A number of factors have changed since the March meeting. The negotiation on the co-location of the six offices had not taken place at that stage, so this is a new scenario. The report of an bord snip nua had not been published. Circumstances have changed that present an opportunity to revisit the decision of last March.

At that time it was proposed to close 18 offices, Ballymote being one of these. That decision has since been reversed. A precedent has been created to change the decision made on 4 March. I contend that circumstances have very much changed as far as the office in Castlebar is concerned. From a cost perspective and taking into account service to customers, this decision makes no sense. To proceed with closure at this stage would make a laughing stock of the Government policy on co-location.

I will mention the seven criteria used in deciding the viability of an office. The first criterion is financial and cost-saving potential and I have already proven the case for Castlebar on that. The next is maintenance and improvement of client services but how can client services be improved for 591 people who must visit the office of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in any event by moving them to a different office? The next is improvement in the capacity of Teagasc to deliver on its programme but how can it better improve delivery of its programme by inconveniencing so many people?

The next criterion is improvement of working conditions of staff and access. This office is wheelchair-accessible and has a lift, ramp and disabled toilet and parking facilities.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy's time is up.

Deputy Beverley Flynn

The office in Castlebar meets every one of the criteria used to decide the viability of this office. I ask that the decision be revisited by the Minister and that he speak with officials from Teagasc to try to get the decision reversed.

Deputy Tony Killeen

I thank Deputy Flynn for raising this matter. On 15 July 2009, the Government approved a plan for a reorganisation of the Department's local office network. The plan involves reducing from 57 to 16 the number of offices from which the Department will operate district veterinary, forestry and agricultural environment and structures support services in the future. This plan is being implemented in close association with Teagasc and will result in shared services between both organisations wherever practicable.

The reorganisation of the Department over the past four years has yielded significant savings. Since early 2005, the Department has reduced its staff numbers by 700, including the transfer of 400 staff to other Departments, mainly the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform for the operation of the PULSE system in Castlebar and local offices of the Department of Social and Family Affairs and other Departments. In addition, a further 600 staff were redeployed internally to new and expanding work areas, including the single payment scheme and the implementation of new environmental, food safety and animal health controls required by the EU. These savings reflect changes in the Department's work practices, improved business processes, the greater use of computerisation and the wind-up of livestock offices, as well as changes arising from CAP reform.

This plan is an important phase in the ongoing reorganisation of the Department, building on our significant investment in information technology, our success in disease eradication and taking account of the changes arising from CAP reform, the continued implementation of the Department's decentralisation plan, the findings of the organisational review programme and the objectives set out in the Government's Transforming Public Services programme. The new structure is more coherent with national policy for customer service delivery across the public sector and will provide for an enhanced service level to the farming community and the wider agrifood sector, as well as a cost-effective service for the taxpayer.

The aim of this reorganisation is to rationalise the overall number of locations across the country to facilitate the more efficient management of schemes, services and disease levels. In doing so it will provide an improved customer service in each region of the country while at the same time reducing the cost of delivering the services provided for the Department's many customers and stakeholders. In addition, the new regional structure will facilitate the retention of the appropriate number of staff required in each location while at the same time maintaining a very high quality of services across the country.

This decision, when fully implemented, will result in savings in the Department's running costs of some €30 million annually and the reduction of over 400 staff. By rationalising our local office network we can improve services to our clients by concentrating the remaining staff resources of approximately 1,000 people at the newly developed centres. This initiative is part of a continuous process of modernisation of the Department. The various staff associations are being consulted on the redeployment of staff within the Department and to other Departments. I express my appreciation to the staff in our local offices for their contribution to the work of the Department over the years.

I understand that Teagasc is currently engaged in a major change programme which encompasses management structures, work practices, research, education and programme prioritisation, administrative efficiencies, technology transfer and service delivery methodologies. The development of this change programme has caused Teagasc to take a detailed look at its infrastructure and in particular at its network of centres and advisory offices. Phase one of this change programme was approved by the Teagasc authority in March 2009 and the closure of 18 advisory offices based on a set of agreed criteria was approved. Castlebar was one of the offices approved for closure in phase one. Teagasc does not have any shared service arrangement, either formal or informal, with the Department in Castlebar.

I understand from Teagasc that the criteria which identified the Castlebar office for closure included the rental fee but, more important, focused on the relative importance of Castlebar as a delivery centre for Teagasc activities in County Mayo. In line with Government policy Teagasc proactively engaged with the Department in identifying suitable locations for shared services which would be mutually beneficial arid six suitable locations have been identified.

Castlebar is not among those locations as it would not be strategically viable for Teagasc and would put at risk a very important location in Westport where Teagasc provides a wide range of knowledge transfer and advisory services to the hill areas and the islands. It has a strong advisory presence, a large client base, a very significant number of discussion and producer groups and rural development initiatives, including direct selling of hill lamb.

Deputy Beverley Flynn

I would not like the debate to finish like that. I appreciate that the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food is not here but the last paragraph is pure mischief making. There is no threat to the Westport Teagasc office, which is completely viable in its own right. It was never a case of one office or another and the record should reflect that. It is my intention to pass this issue to the members of the board for consideration at their next meeting.

Acting Chairman

The Deputy might take that up with the Minister directly.

Third Level Education.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I appreciate the opportunity to raise a very important issue tonight that concerns the whole of County Tipperary, north and south. We were one constituency back in the 1940s but we are a very proud and united county despite having two county councils, local authorities and Dáil constituencies. We have a serious issue with the Tipperary Institute, although I acknowledge the recent efforts of the Minister for Education and Science and his officials, as well as the voluntary board of the Tipperary Institute and public representatives from the county.

We have a serious issue with the Tipperary Institute, although I acknowledge the recent efforts of the Minister for Education and Science and his officials, the voluntary board and all public representatives in Tipperary. We had a problem with the McCarthy report, which recommended the closure of the institute and I acknowledge the efforts of everybody, not least the Department and the Minister for staving off that challenge. It would have been a pity because we have a proud history going back to when I was a member of the VEC in the early 1990s. A former colleague, Con Brennan, was chairman of the council and a former county manager and he had meetings with Mr. Luke Murtagh and Mr. John Slattery, chief executive officers of the respective VECs in Tipperary, to set up the Tipperary Rural and Business Development Institute, TRBDI. It was launched by the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, ten years ago.

TRBDI then changed its name to Tipperary Institute and it was always agreed the two campuses in Tipperary and Clonmel would have equal status. The deal also provided for outreach centres in different towns and VEC centres around the country. The Celtic tiger was roaring at the time and it was difficult to attract students to a rural and business development institute. Our numbers did not increase as quickly as they should but, with the downturn in the economy over the past two years, people are flocking back to the institute to do many varying rural and business courses, which are valuable and necessary for upskilling and reskilling them to return to the workforce and, more important, business.

The McCarthy report presented a serious challenge but, thankfully, that has abated and we are faced with stabilising the college and participating in a merger with a similar sized institute. We acknowledge we cannot live on our own and integration of the Tipperary Institute with another institute is important. We are looking to integrate with Limerick Institute of Technology, LIT. We will retain our brand name, board and president and we are working out arrangements with the Department and the colleges.

Tipperary Institute is a limited company and that creates a number of problems. Many sleight of hand remarks were directed at the staff-student ratio at the institute and I condemn them because, at the outset, 60% of the staff were to be engaged in work on the institute's main campuses and 40% were to be deployed in the community because it focused a rural-based development. The staff had contracts to do so and while these will be changed, that was the concept at the beginning and it will need to be continued. We cannot walk away and forget the initial intention was to support business enterprises in the community.

The strategy on higher education is due on the Minister's desk early in the new year and we were delighted to be reassured by him that it will not affect the Tipperary Institute and it can look to merge with LIT. I look forward to a strengthened board, a more progressive and dynamic range of courses and the delivery of excellent services.

The Clonmel campus operates out of a shed. It was built in three months to coincide with the opening of the Thurles campus. A cost neutral proposal was put on the table by the county manager of South Tipperary County Council and it is proposed to move to Ballingarrane, which is a prestigious site north of Clonmel town. An IT centre has been located there. We want the Minister and his officials to fast forward the project to allow us to develop our proposals at Ballingarrane, which will be cost neutral for the Department. The campus will be equal to that in Thurles and this will allow the institute to proceed with a merger and strategic alliance. It would then be able to reorganise and refocus to serve the people of Tipperary and beyond, as was envisaged from the outset, and to attract many students who currently leave the county to study in Cork, Waterford and Limerick, to pursue their courses in Tipperary.

Deputy Tony Killeen

I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, and I thank the Deputy for raising it.

The Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes was established to examine the current expenditure programmes in each Department and to make recommendations for reducing public service numbers to ensure a return to sustainable public finances. The report contains a wide range of recommendations, which cut across all Departments. It notes that Tipperary Institute is located near two other institutes of technology and has a high complement of staff compared to the number of full-time students. The group recommends that the institute be closed with existing students reassigned to nearby institutes of technology. The report, and its specific recommendations, are being considered by the Department in the context of achieving the required reductions in public service numbers and Exchequer expenditure.

In addition, the Deputy will be aware that the process to develop a new national strategy for higher education is under way and it affords a timely opportunity to review the environment for higher education and the challenges and changes impacting on the sector. The process, which is being led by a high level strategy group, will set out the blueprint for the development of the sector over the next two decades. It will examine how well Ireland's higher education system is performing, how it ranks internationally, how well existing resources are being used and how the system can be reconfigured to best meet the many challenges it faces over the next decade having regard to the key role it has to play in contributing to Ireland's economic recovery.

The objective of this strategy process is to develop a vision and related set of national policy objectives for Irish higher education for the next 20 years with more focused targets for the sector for the next five years. The strategy group is critically examining the roles and relationships of higher education institutions in order that the system can deliver the levels of efficiency, performance, innovation and growth that will optimise Ireland's "smart" economic recovery and social development. The process is also looking at the effectiveness of the use of current resources, the potential to maximise the use of those resources and identify how additional resource requirements across the sector can be met, having particular regard to the difficult budgetary and economic climate in prospect in the medium term.

As the Deputy will appreciate, in the current economic climate all areas of Exchequer funding are being examined to provide value for money and best practices across the public sector. In this regard the Deputy will be aware of the significant Exchequer funding which Tipperary Institute receives from the Department, which amounted to €10 million in each of the past two years with the main elements of this funding being used to meet the cost of staff salaries and associated day-to-day running costs of the institute.

Given the relatively low number of students there is an issue as to whether Tipperary Institute, as it operates currently, is sustainable on a stand-alone basis. The Minister understands the institute is in dialogue with other higher education institutions on possible collaborative arrangements and he believes that this is the appropriate way forward for the institute. However, it will be necessary, as part of any new initiatives, that staffing and funding ratios in the institute be brought into line with sector norms. The Minister is confident progress can be made quickly on identifying and agreeing a new model that will place the institute on a sustainable path going forward. I thank the Deputy for affording me the opportunity to respond to the House on this matter.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 11 December 2009.