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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Jun 2010

Vol. 711 No. 3

Priority Questions

School Staffing

Brian Hayes

Question:

1 Deputy Brian Hayes asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills the number of assistant principals and special duty teachers who have retired from primary teaching since the embargo on filling middle management posts was introduced in 2009; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23927/10]

Retirements at primary level since the introduction of the moratorium in March 2009 were 309 principals, 260 deputy principals, 145 assistant principals and 223 teachers with special duties posts of responsibility. This is based on Department held data. Vacancies at assistant principal and special duties level arise due to retirements in these specific grades and typically also from the knock-on effect of filling principal and deputy principal posts.

When the moratorium was introduced the Government exempted principal and deputy principal appointments in all primary and post-primary schools and these continue to be replaced in the normal manner. The impact of the moratorium is therefore limited to the assistant principal and special duties allowances payable to teachers on promotion.

Unlike other areas of the public service retirement vacancies are actually being filled and what the school loses is the capacity to make a promotion by awarding the extra pay allowance to another teacher. The position whereby just over 50% of all teachers have promotion allowances is simply not sustainable.

Further retirements and promotions later this year will impact further on middle management posts. I am conscious that the impact of the moratorium on middle management posts has applied unevenly in schools and as I have already acknowledged the impact is not just due to the level of retirements but also as a consequence of promotions that are made to principal and deputy principal posts. Discussions are ongoing with the Department of Finance in relation to some limited alleviation for schools that are actually affected by the impact of the moratorium. Schools will be advised of the outcome of the discussions at the earliest possible stage so that they can plan ahead for the coming school year.

The Minister said that schools will be advised of this decision by Government. I raised this matter with her predecessor on 4 March and was told that a decision was imminent. When the Minister spoke to the teacher union conferences nine weeks ago she said limited alleviation will occur. Teachers in schools are either dealing with examinations or are on their summer holidays. Is the Minister seriously telling this House that she has no news for the schools on foot of this parliamentary question, when, effectively, such school authorities cannot make these appointments — even if it were possible for them to do so — on the basis that teachers have either broken for the summer or are on their summer holidays. I ask the Minister to directly answer this question: when will schools be informed of the limited alleviation to which she referred nine weeks ago? When will that happen?

I advise the Deputy that I have been engaged in discussions, as have senior officials on my behalf, at senior level with the Department of Finance in examining a methodology by which we can provide such limited alleviation. My judgment is that we will be able to bring the matter to finality very soon. I have returned to the Department on a number of issues regarding its consideration of sanction. I want to obtain from the Department what is reasonable and fair. I had thought that the matter would have been concluded last week when I got a response from the Department, but I have reverted to it on a number of issues that I want to have addressed. Hopefully we will have the matter resolved in the next number of days.

While the Department of Finance is running rings around the Minister and her Department, school authorities cannot make these appointments because they do not know the number of posts, if any, they will be allocated next year. I are talking about the positions of year heads, programme co-ordinators and examination secretaries, key middle management posts within our education system, which cannot be filled now because the Minister has allowed the Department of Finance to run rings around her.

Is it the case that her Department has given specific financial help to schools where a post holder has retired and the task undertaken by that person cannot now be done within the school? In how many instances has that occurred? I am aware of one where, as I understand it, the Department gave financial help either to the school or to employ a separate person to ensure that examinations could take place. Can she advise the House how many specific instances have occurred where the Department has given such financial help to schools?

The Deputy is broadening the scope of the question.

If the Minister continues to pursue this policy, schools will not open in September.

The Deputy is probably not aware that protracted discussions can take place with the Department of Finance in the context of any of these issues. We are engaged in dialogue and discussions on this matter. Therefore, I do not accept the Deputy's perspective that the Department of Finance is running rings around my Department. That is not the position.

The Minister spoke about this matter nine weeks ago.

We are engaged in discussions, which I accept have been protracted, but my view is that these discussions will be completed soon. What I want to obtain is a method by which we can address the concerns of a number of schools at primary and, particularly, at post-primary level. I am doing my utmost to have that matter resolved so that the schools can deal with the issue of concern in this interim period. However, it will be a limited alleviation and not a return to what was the position heretofore.

Did the Minister give financial help to schools? How many schools were assisted?

That is a broadening of the question.

I am not aware of any of those things happening.

The Minister is not aware of any such instances.

Colleges of Education

Ruairí Quinn

Question:

2 Deputy Ruairí Quinn asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills if, in view of the fact that all five undergraduate primary teacher training colleges are owned and managed by the Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland and that such colleges are extensively funded by the Irish taxpayer and bearing in mind the provisions of Article 44 of the Constitution, she considers the compulsory requirement on students in these colleges to partake in religious studies, including faith formation for primary pupils as acceptable due the fact it denies the right of students to choose not to participate in such courses on the basis of their conscience; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23887/10]

The Deputy is correct in his assumption that the B.Ed courses provided by all five colleges of education currently include modules on religious education. This reflects the fact that primary schools are overwhelmingly denominational and have traditionally played and continue to play a significant role in the faith formation of their pupils, and the colleges have prepared their students accordingly. As the Deputy will be aware, in relation to the Church of Ireland College of Education, a formal derogation under the provisions of the Employment Equality Act is sought from the House.

My officials have been in contact with the colleges to seek elaboration as to how the process works in practice, and the experiences the colleges may have had in dealing with any situation arising in this regard. The issue was also discussed at a recent biennial meeting between the colleges and my officials.

It may interest the Deputy to learn that all colleges have indicated that the issue of an exemption being sought by a student teacher in relation to the religious education module has not arisen in practice. The colleges have indicated that any such request from a student teacher would be looked at pragmatically were it to arise. In short, they have indicated that were such a situation to arise they would seek to ensure that it would not be an impediment to a student graduating as a teacher. In fact, one of the colleges has indicated that it is now in the process of proactively making provision to facilitate any student who expresses conscientious objections in the way the Deputy has described. The colleges are keen, irrespective of the legal position, to ensure they cater for the needs of all students.

On a related note, and as indicated previously in this House, my Department will seek the view of the Office of the Attorney General on the legal and constitutional aspects of this issue. In the meantime, there will be further engagement with the colleges with a view to advancing the matter. It is important to stress that the colleges are positively disposed to creating as inclusive an environment for students as possible and I support them in this regard.

I thank the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills for her reply, but her response is somewhat inadequate as we approach the completion of the first decade in the 21st century. This is a republic. Articles 42 and 44 of the Constitution provide for education. We have moved a long way from 1930. People are entitled to the right of conscience. The provision of education supported by the State is to be welcomed. However, I note from a reply to a question I got from the Minister on 1 June that the State is providing in the order of €50 million a year to the five teacher training colleges. Since the colleges have opened the door, will the Minister push it wide open and secure it, and request, by way of a formal letter, the colleges that are in receipt of €50 million of taxpayers' money to explicitly provide a freedom of conscience option? The Minister should request the colleges which are in receipt of €50 million of taxpayers' money to provide an explicit freedom of conscience option for their teacher training pupils so that if they wish to exercise it they do not have to seek permission but can simply avail of what is provided.

It is important to say this issue has not arisen.

I am sorry but the Minister cannot say that.

I will call the Deputy again.

It has not arisen in the context of discussions that happened between my Department and the colleges where the specific question was asked. I support the colleges in having an inclusive environment. As the Deputy knows, the Department has been involved in some curricular development work with Educate Together and with the provision of new modules, all ongoing. As I indicated, we are going to seek advice from the Attorney General but while waiting for that advice we will work towards the formulation.

Not only do I support this issue but so do the colleges which are very positive about the way in which this matter was raised with them. I do not believe I should issue a diktat to them. It is a matter of working together to see whether certain procedures need to be set up to allow this to happen. As I indicated, one college is moving towards that at present.

I did not ask the Minister to issue a diktat, to quote her own phrase. I asked her to act on the information volunteered to her and her Department, namely, that if a person requested the option it would be granted. I simply ask for that negative to be turned into a positive. In other words, a person does not have to ask but can avail of the option if he or she wants to because the provision is explicitly there. It is not an off-the-menu item which can be obtained if one asks for it. It should be an on-the-menu item for a student, who if he or she qualifies to be accepted into any of the five colleges, should be able to say, "By the way, I don't want to participate in the faith formation component of the curriculum offered here".

Will the Minister, in advance of the Attorney General's advice, concerning which I believe he will be consistent as shown in the Protestant grant component being removed on his constitutional advice, act so that the same advice will prevail? In order to prevent some difficulties of a much more substantial kind I respectfully suggest that the Minister invite the colleges to make explicit what they have told her is implicit in their handling of this issue.

It is important to say that this has not arisen as a key issue for student teachers. We will be proactive. As I indicated, one of the colleges is proactive in this and we will move towards that. Neither side of the House is averse to this. I have no problem in supporting this and the colleges do not have a problem. It is a matter of working through how this can be set up simultaneously with the advice from the Attorney General. This matter will progress in tandem with the seeking of that advice. I do not want a situation whereby student teachers who have a conscientious objection would not be facilitated in any of the colleges.

Very briefly. We are over time.

The Minister cannot say the situation has not arisen. If one talks to the teachers' unions they will say privately it has arisen. The student teachers are scared to ask for it for fear of endangering their work opportunities.

There is another reality. More than 90% of schools in this country are run by denominations.

We will get to that later.

That is a fact of the situation. We had a very good debate in this House in which the majority of people, of both rural and urban ilk, were of the view that their local school of denominational education would continue to be important.

That is a misrepresentation of what we said.

Student teachers are very pragmatic in the hope of getting a job.

Hypocrisy becomes sanctioned.

It is not hypocrisy. It is important to reiterate there is not a problem with that happening. In the interim we are proceeding with the methods I formulated.

State Examinations

Brian Hayes

Question:

3 Deputy Brian Hayes asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills the number of unemployed persons who have been given an opportunity to work by the State Examinations Commission in relation to the upcoming State examinations; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23928/10]

The State Examinations Commission has operational responsibility for the operation of the certificate examinations. Each year the SEC employs additional staff to deal with the peak demands of the system. These include temporary clerical officers, temporary porters, examination superintendents and examiners. The SEC will employ up to 75 temporary clerical officers and 17 temporary porters this year. All appointees to date and all those yet to be appointed have been and will be drawn from the register of unemployed persons maintained by the Department of Social Protection. Examination superintendents are drawn from a pool of experienced teachers. The SEC will appoint superintendents to 4,692 centres this year. It is a long standing policy that unemployed and substitute teachers are recruited first, before drawing on the wider pool of applicants. A total of 213 unemployed teachers and 574 substitute teachers have been appointed to date, and the process is ongoing. Appointments are made by the SEC on a county basis. Surplus applicants in one county are drawn on in a neighbouring county where vacancies occur. In addition, schools appoint some 7,500 superintendents directly to work in centres catering for students with special needs. The profile of these appointees is not held by the SEC. Examiners are recruited to mark candidates' scripts, oral and practical tests, and are recruited on the basis of their academic qualifications, examination and teaching experience. They are mainly drawn from the pool of practising teachers. Some 6,000 examiners will be employed in 2010. To date 190 unemployed teachers have been engaged by SEC for this purpose.

In the recruitment of temporary staff, the State Examinations Commission is committed to giving priority to unemployed persons to the maximum extent commensurate with ensuring appropriate expertise and quality in the operation of the examination system.

How can the Tánaiste say that when the information she gave to the House is to the contrary? Basically, she informed the House that of the 12,000 appointments as superintendents for the State examinations starting next week, 800 are unemployed or substitute teachers, or approximately 7%. This is at a time where there are almost 440,000 people unemployed in this country. Does the Tánaiste accept the information she has received from the State Examinations Commission? Will she inform the House how many retired teachers are employed by the SEC either as superintendents or for the purpose of correcting those papers?

First, I correct the Deputy. The live register figures he reiterated are not a reflection of the number of unemployed people in this country. That has been a misnomer in the House for many years.

It is a pretty good indicator.

I would not stand over the figure if I were the Minister.

As a former Minister for Social Welfare, I know the facts. There is a household survey that indicates the numbers unemployed.

On the issue of the appointment of superintendents and staff the most important point is to ensure that the young people who are sitting their junior and leaving certificate exams——

Applied, also.

——are supported and that we have the highest quality possible in support of their examinations. That is the most important thing to do and we will continue to do it within the State examinations.

I indicated in my reply that the SEC is very cognisant of the need and commitment to support people who are unemployed. That is why the support staff will be, in the main, those from the unemployed register. It will continue to make further appointments for substitute or unemployed teachers. I do not have the numbers to hand of those who are retired. We want to ensure that there are people with the relevant capacity to supervise the examinations, who have the experience to assure the candidates of the highest quality. I do not have the numbers or know even whether they are available but I can revert to the Deputy.

I would be grateful if the Tánaiste would find out the number of retired teachers who are obtaining a pension from the State and working in the State examinations from next week. I would like that information. We all need it. We all have a responsibility. When we allow 12,000 people be employed by the State for two, three or four weeks in June we have a duty and a moral obligation to ensure those jobs are ring-fenced for unemployed people.

The Tánaiste referred in her response to the question of suitability. Does she suggest that a young unemployed solicitor, accountant or——

——teacher or architect is in some way unsuitable to supervise and be a superintendent for the purpose of these State examinations? Is this not a form of restrictive practice on the part of the SEC, supported by the Department of Education and Skills? There are many unemployed people who would love the opportunity to work for the month of June. They would love the opportunity to work for June but the Department, through the State Examination Commission, SEC, is not providing that opportunity to them.

I saw the Deputy's press release and I would be seriously concerned if we did not set out standards at which people are appointed as superintendents.

Superintendents.

Yes. There must be a certain standard.

Is that like the standard last year when the exam paper got out?

Allow the Tánaiste to proceed without interruption.

I am disappointed, Deputy. Everybody in the House is cognisant of the examinations and we want to ensure the people who have relevant experience and who have the capacity and ability to supervise our exams are of the highest standard.

That is not the issue.

The State Examination Commission is independent of me and my Department.

It is not nonsense. It is important to reiterate that where possible, unemployed substitute teachers will be appointed. There are those in employment currently who will be appointed as the State Examination Commission cannot make differentiations. It must allow people to apply whether they are employed or unemployed.

Is the Minister telling the House that unemployed people in other professions would be unable to be superintendents for State exams?

There is some repetition of the previous question.

I would like clarification in that respect.

I am not telling the House anything. I have said what I had to say and I am not indicating one way or the other.

The Minister is sitting on the fence.

We are cognisant of the need to support people who are unemployed but equally cognisant of the absolute necessity to ensure the calibre of people to be appointed as superintendents. The criteria set down for those appointments are a matter for the SEC.

School Transport

Frank Feighan

Question:

4 Deputy Frank Feighan asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills her views on the possible increase in school transport costs to families and extending this to primary school children; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23929/10]

The school transport scheme, which is operated by Bus Éireann on my Department's behalf, facilitates the transportation of over 125,000 children to primary and post-primary schools each day. School transport is a very significant operation involving about 42 million journeys and over 82 million kilometres on 6,000 routes every school year. The arrangements currently in place for school transport annual charges, namely €300 per eligible and concessionary post-primary pupil, €200 per concessionary primary pupil and a maximum family charge of €650, will remain in place for the 2010 to 2011 school year.

The total contribution of charges from parents in 2009 still only represents 7% of the overall expenditure of €177.4 million by the State on school transport. In order to minimise the overall effects on families, school transport charges have been confined up to now to eligible post-primary children and children availing of concessionary transport. Charges continue to be waived in the case of eligible post-primary children where the family is in possession of a valid medical card and in addition, eligible primary children and children with special needs still travel free. A maximum family charge of €650 also applies.

The Deputy will be aware that the McCarthy report made recommendations to levy charges, at both primary and post-primary level, at a rate of €500 per annum per child or 50% of the full economic cost of providing the service, with the exemption for social welfare recipients continuing to apply. The recommendations in the McCarthy report fall to be considered as part of the annual Estimates and budget process. It would not be appropriate to comment specifically on whether any of these recommendations or other expenditure issues will be included in next year's Estimates and budget prior to Government consideration and decisions on the Estimates for 2011.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

Composite table showing changes to the charges.

Category of Pupil

Rates effective from September, 1998

3rd term 2007/08 school year (term charge)

1st term 2008/09 school year (term charge)

Annual charge 2009/10 school year

% Increase 09/10 over 08/09

Eligible Junior Cycle pupil

€33 €99 — annual

€46 €138 — annual

€56 €168 — annual

€300 — annual

78

Eligible Senior Cycle pupil

€51 €153 — annual

€71 €213 — annual

€78 €234 — annual

€300 — annual

28

Concessionary primary pupil

€26 €78 — annual

€36 €108 — annual

€40 €120 — annual

€200 — annual

66

Concessionary post-primary pupil

€51 €153 — annual

€71 €213 — annual

€78 €234 — annual

€300 — annual

28

Maximum family contribution

€107 €321 — annual

€150 €450 — annual

€165 €495 — annual

€650 — annual

31

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. However, it does not set out or allay the fears of thousands of hard-pressed parents. We are discussing the 2010 to 2011 school year but we really want to know about the following academic year. Will the Minister of State reject any proposals by the Department of Finance to increase the fee from €300 to €500?

Only 125,000 people are availing of school transport, a number which has decreased by 10,000 because the fee has increased by 203% from €99 to €300 already. People are using their own transport or that of other parents and friends. The viability of school transport in rural areas as we know it will be undermined. Will the Minister of State allay the fears of the parents that the fee will be increased?

The Deputy is aware that there was no increase in charges from 1998 until the third term of the 2007 to 2008 academic year. There were three increases following from that. I am not responsible for recent newspaper articles on the issue and the McCarthy report is freely available. It goes without saying that all aspects of that report will be considered by all Departments in the context of the Estimates for 2011. I reiterate that there will be no changes to charges for the 2010 to 2011 school year and the Estimates process for 2011 is at a very early stage. All items of expenditure in the Department of Education and Skills will be considered in that context. I am not in a position to say what will be in the budget and Estimates for 2011.

The Minister of State is a reasonable man. Will he fight the corner of the hard-pressed parents and rural students who will not be able to afford this extra increase if he does not resist it? Will he reject the proposals of the McCarthy report to increase the charges from €300 to €500?

I assure the Deputy that I am deeply committed to the school transport scheme. I am putting that on the record in case there is any doubt.

We are all relieved accordingly.

I am delighted to hear it. There has been a suggestion that because I am a Dublin Deputy I would not have a feel for the scheme. It is a national scheme and I am totally committed to its aims and objectives. The Estimates process will be announced and commence in the course of the budgetary proceedings. I am aware of the feelings of parents on previous increases in school transport charges and they will be taken into account.

I wonder what are the views of the Green Party. It has advocated public transport and getting cars off the road.

The Minister of State is not answerable to the House with regard to the views of another political party.

The Tánaiste might raise it at Cabinet level.

School Absenteeism

Brian Hayes

Question:

5 Deputy Brian Hayes asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills the number of students in primary and post-primary education who miss more than 20 school days per year; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23930/10]

The National Educational Welfare Board, NEWB, is the statutory body with responsibility for school attendance. The board compiles statistics based on attendance returns at the end of each school year. The findings from these reports help to identify trends in school attendance. The most recent statistics on national levels of school attendance are contained in the report, Analysis of School Attendance Data in Primary and Post-Primary Schools, 2006/7 and 2007/8, published by the NEWB earlier this week.

The report shows figures for 20-day absence have remained fairly stable over the five year period from 2003/04 to 2007/08 with, on average, 58,000 or 12% of primary and 57,000 or 17% of post-primary students absent for 20 days or more during each school year. The report also shows that non-attendance is more prevalent among older children and children who come from more disadvantaged areas.

Educational welfare officers of the NEWB work with approximately 8,000 children each year who are reported as having serious school attendance or school placement difficulties or who have been expelled from schools. The NEWB has, in the past, issued information leaflets to parents and run public awareness campaigns to raise the profile of school attendance. It also operates an education helpline to provide information on attendance and related matters. Since September 2009 the role of the NEWB has been expanded to include the school completion programme and the home school community liaison, HSCL, programme as well as the visiting teachers service for Travellers.

School attendance is a central objective of the newly expanded service. The school completion programme includes attendance tracking as one of its main preventative strategies. HSCL co-ordinators work with parents to promote school attendance. These services are available to all schools participating in DEIS, Delivering Equality of Opportunity in Schools, the action plan for educational inclusion. The visiting teachers for Travellers work directly with the Traveller parents and children to promote regular school attendance and participation in school. In line with Government policy the board prioritises its resources to support schools participating in DEIS.

This integrated approach is part of the Government's overall approach to transforming public services announced in November 2008 and will significantly benefit service delivery to children and their families and assist schools in meeting the challenges they face in tackling poor attendance and early school leaving.

Does the Minister of State view it as acceptable that the National Education Welfare Board, NEWB, publishes these data on a three-year basis and that the information in the most recent report to which he referred is two years out of date? Why can the information not be published by the NEWB on a year-by-year basis instead of once every three years, given the fact that principals give the NEWB the information as requested three or four times per year?

The Deputy will be aware of a certain amount of unhappiness on the part of teachers regarding the bureaucracy associated with this matter. Under the Act, schools are required to report on school attendance for the year. This can only occur at the end of the year. Each year, the board receives the schools' reports and conducts a process to correct some of the information provided. For example, some schools include PLC students or make errors in respect of their enrolments. Other schools need to be reminded to submit their returns. The information is then analysed by the Educational Research Centre, ERC, in Drumcondra and further verification is undertaken. The process can take up to one year.

Extraordinary.

Chalk is being used.

Schools are also required to report absences exceeding 20 days or where there is a concern about the absence profile of a child.

The published figures relate to the 2007-08 period. I do not agree that they are significantly out of date, having regard to the information I have supplied to the House. Nevertheless, I could take the Deputy's comments on board and endeavour to have the figures published, but we must bear in mind the considerations I mentioned.

We need to change because a year-by-year account is necessary. If the Minister of State is speaking sincerely about transforming the public service, we must have the information on a real-time basis in light of the fact that schools have given it to the NEWB.

While there is a legal obligation on schools to report children who miss more than 20 days, the real acute cases of absenteeism are those of more than 40 days, as the Minister of State is aware. Will he assure the House that local educational welfare officers are making adequate interventions? Will he inform the House of the number of educational welfare officers and will he indicate if those posts are subject to the ban on recruitment witnessed elsewhere in the public sector?

It should be said that, under the Education (Welfare) Act, responsibility in this regard rests primarily with parents and schools. We would all accept this, yet there is still a need for intervention by the NEWB. If a child has been absent for more than 60 days, the educational welfare officers become engaged in his or her situation, but only after all other efforts have failed. As I mentioned in my reply to a previous question, other supports are in place to assist schools, parents and teachers, such as the home-school community liaison programme, the schools completion programme and so forth.

The NEWB has a budget of €9.6 million and 109 posts, 106 of which I understand are probably filled. The moratorium applies, but we are in discussions with the Department of Finance in respect of the role of the NEWB's chief executive officer, a post that will fall to be filled in the near future.

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