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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Jul 2010

Vol. 715 No. 1

Adjournment Debate

Services for People with Disabilities

We have had opportunities to raise the issue on numerous occasions but unfortunately we have not received any answers. I wish to raise the closure of the respite house in Clonile in Limerick, which is attached to Bawnmore, the Brothers of Charity service for adults with an intellectual disability in Limerick. That house closed more than three weeks ago leaving no respite service for adults with intellectual disability in the mid-west region.

I will not repeat all of the things I have said on the matter in various ways in priority questions and in the other ways in which I have raised the matter in the House. I want answers on behalf of the families that are affected and those who can get no break now. Even when people need to go to hospital they have nowhere for their loved one to go. We need the answers tonight and before we go on holidays. Those people will not be able to go on holidays this year if they do not get an answer.

I accept discussions have taken place with the HSE and the Brothers of Charity involving the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, and the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Mary Harney. We do not know what happened in those talks. We do not know what was said and what commitments were given. We do not know whether there is an agreement or if the house will reopen. We are talking about the most vulnerable families and people in our communities. In the case of the mid-west, 63 families are affected. Cutbacks have also been made to a variety of facilities. It is a retrograde step for persons who have left residential centres to live in the community to return to residential care. We are going backwards. My main concern is when the respite house will reopen. I want an answer to that question. When will it be available for the families that need it?

Many Members attended the protest today and met with people who are directly affected, as we have done on previous occasions. Those people literally have nowhere else to go. I do not want to hear again about talks and about the fact that the Brothers of Charity in the mid-west have €25 million for the provision of services. That is not an adequate answer. I am focused on the families who are affected. They need an answer. They do not need to be told that talks are ongoing. They simply need someone to get their finger out and to make a decision. If the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney, has to order them to open it then he should do that. That house must reopen. We must be told when it is reopening before the House rises tomorrow.

I wish to address the situation in which service providers in Galway found themselves in the past week. HSE west currently has an overspend of €6.9 million. It is projected to be €15.5 million by the end of the year. The three main providers of service in the area to the physically and intellectually disadvantaged in Galway are the Brothers of Charity, Ability West and Enable Ireland. The plan of the HSE to address its bad management was to cut back the allocations to those three bodies to balance its books. The Brothers of Charity had already suffered a cutback of €2.5 million in its allocation earlier in the year but it was able to manage by means of excellent efficiency and savings. I compliment the acting director, Ms Anne Geraghty, and the board of the Brothers of Charity on this achievement.

In the McCarthy report on State funding, a savings target of 3.7% over two years was recommended. The Brothers of Charity achieved a 4% saving over one year. Therefore, there is no wastage or inefficiency on their part. Are they now to be penalised for their efficiency in saving of a further €2 million, as was suggested verbally by HSE officials at a meeting late last week?

Since I submitted this Adjournment matter yesterday, I understand there has been some movement, or perceived movement. I am aware representatives of the Brothers of Charity met the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, today. I would like the Minister of State to spell out the current position. Will the budget for the Brothers of Charity now not be cut back by a further €2 million? Will the organisation be expected to make further savings? If so, it will be impossible.

If the HSE has a current overspend of €6.9 million and a projected overspend of €5.5 million by the end of the year, it should not be taking it out on the providers of a service to the most vulnerable who have stayed well within their budget.

A further cut of €2 million would have had a very serious effect on the respite service. Respite care provision would have had to have been reduced by up to 40%, thus putting an intolerable burden on families caring for loved ones in their homes. Respite care is the vital link that keeps affected families together. Families in some of the more severe circumstances receive one night of respite per week. This gives them an opportunity to recharge so they will be able to continue to look after their loved ones. The suggested cutback of €2 million would have devastated the service of the Brothers of Charity, which service is excellent.

What happened at the talks today involving the Brothers of Charity representatives from Galway? Will the €2 million that the HSE was supposed to cut not be cut? Are the Brothers of Charity now expected to make a further saving of €2 million in their very efficiently run service? If so, it will be impossible to do so.

I hope the wool was not pulled over anybody's eyes. I am not suggesting the Minister of State is trying to do so. I hope the representatives went home happy today and that everything in the garden is rosy. Will the Minister of State spell out for Members, who have been waiting for two days to speak on this matter on the Adjournment, exactly what happened at today's meeting? Has the €2 million that was to be cut been restored, thus giving the Brothers of Charity their full budget, apart from the €2.5 million that was cut earlier in the year?

I thank Deputy John Moloney, the Minister of State responsible for disability, for attending the House. This is an extremely important issue for us all, particularly in so far as it affects the respite services of the Brothers of Charity in Clonile House, Old Cratloe Road, Limerick. The Brothers of Charity have provided an invaluable service to individuals and their parents. There are 63 families affected. We are talking about real people's lives.

I heard the Taoiseach state only 130 people are affected. They are real people. Many of them marched outside the Dáil at lunchtime today. Many are elderly parents of intellectually disabled adults.

The respite service in Limerick provided a break for both the intellectually disabled and their parents. Many of the parents are widowed. We need to get from the Minister of State tonight confirmation that the respite home in Clonile will be reopened. It has been closed for three weeks since 14 June. It is unforgivable. This matter has dragged on for far too long. We need to know the subject of the Minister of State's discussions with the Brothers of Charity today and how respite services for intellectually disabled adults in Limerick city will be affected. We need to hear that a commitment was made to provide funding and that the respite unit will be reopened tomorrow. We will not leave this House tomorrow until we receive confirmation in this regard.

The victims are the intellectually disabled adults and their parents. I pay tribute to the parents for what they do for their children over their lives. They have two main concerns, namely, that their children will be looked after when they are alive and when they pass away. People should not be put in these circumstances.

Before midnight, we want confirmation from the Minister of State that the residential respite unit in Clonile House on the Old Cratloe Road will be reopened and that the 63 families will be able to avail of the service again. They receive one night of respite per month on average.

This is a defining moment for the Government. The heartache that the failure to draw down €157,000 has caused over the past three weeks is unforgivable. I hope to hear positive news from the Minister of State tonight such that the unit will be reopened tomorrow and that people's lives can return to normal.

I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I recognise other Deputies had an interest in it also. I am not in the business of pulling the wool over anybody's eyes; that goes without saying. I will refer to the meeting today. It is a pity Deputy Jan O'Sullivan made the point this is a matter of having meeting after meeting but it must be a matter of meetings. That is why the meeting was today. Tomorrow evening's meeting will be with the umbrella group, the national voluntary organisation. Let us try to deal with the issues that arise.

Deputy McCormack was concerned about today's meeting and wondered what the outcome was. He has a Galway perspective. The Brothers of Charity confirmed that they can maintain the respite service in the current year from within currently available resources. It is not for me to say that. The Brothers of Charity has issued a statement this evening to this effect. I did not read it but heard it referred to on the news.

The statement that only 131 people are affected was made by way of saying 5,000 people are in receipt of respite care. The reference to 131 was in the context of the fact that 42 providers are providing respite care. It occurred to me that, of the 42, 40 were in a position to continue providing care. Two had a difficulty.

I want to be as specific as I can about the meetings. Some weeks ago, when the possibility of Bawnmore was flagged to us, I suggested to the HSE publicly on radio that the local health managers should sit down with the services providers to determine where their difficulty lay, bearing in mind the allocation of €1.6 billion for disability services. I pointed out at all times that it would not be necessary to cut the respite care budget.

Whether it is unthinkable or otherwise, it must be said that there was a €30 million budget for Bawnmore. The shortfall was €145,000. I mentioned the outcome of today's meeting in respect of Galway. The Brothers of Charity left the meeting today to consider the issue of Bawnmore.

I must give a commitment before we rise tomorrow evening. My commitment has been to retain respite services this year. I want to be very specific with Deputy McCormack because he raised concerns about this matter on a few occasions. The issue of demanding a further cut of €2 million is not on the table. Last week's suggestion of seeking a further €2 million will not be acted upon in the context of this year's service. This will be reaffirmed in the statement we will issue tomorrow evening.

Let me refer to the lead-up——

Did the Minister of State clarify that the Limerick unit will reopen in addition to the one in Galway?

I am not trying to hide behind words.

Could the Minister of State answer a question?

The Minister of State without interruption.

No, I am prepared to accept the question.

The second last paragraph of the written response provided by the Minister of State states:

The brothers have indicated that the respite service can be largely restored for €150,000 in the current year. The Brothers of Charity today indicated that they would work with the HSE to ensure this happens.

When will this happen?

I am sorry if I am going against procedure, but I want to be as helpful as possible. When the restoration will occur is for the brothers to say.

But what about——

May I finish my point? In the context of today's meeting, the fact that the brothers were experiencing difficulties led me to suggest that the HSE should sit down with them to find the base line if they could not provide the service, providing it should be possible in the context of a budget of €30 million and the brothers committed to doing this today.

While I respect Deputy O'Donnell's concern about the House rising tomorrow, I cannot be tied down to that event. I will be in the Department this month to ensure that respite services are continued at Bawnmore, Galway and Navan.

I have a quick question. Has the Minister of State requested that the Brothers of Charity revert to him to indicate when the respite house will be reopened? Its situation appears to be different from that of Galway, where the respite service has not yet closed. The service in Limerick has been closed since 14 June, but people were only advised two weeks beforehand. Our concern is for the individuals and their families. The Brothers of Charity would do the work, but has the Minister of State, who has responsibility in this regard, demanded that they revert to him to advise as to when the respite house will be reopened? We cannot allow the House to stand down tomorrow and leave this matter in limbo.

The same could be——

I hope I will be afforded the same latitude as Deputy O'Donnell.

Of course. I apologise if I——

Just over five minutes are left in the slot. The Deputy should be brief and then allow the Minister of State to conclude.

If the Acting Chairman has given one Member latitude, I would hope that he would do the same for another.

I accept that.

The problem is that people have lost trust. The respite house has been closed for more than three weeks. Since then, various individuals have told people that meetings have been taking place. For this reason, I referred to meetings. People do not believe that meetings will have outcomes. We need a commitment tomorrow about a definite date for the house's reopening. Otherwise, we will not be able to go home to our constituencies. It is as simple as that.

I wish to come to the Minister of State's defence. This is the best Adjournment debate I have witnessed since entering the House and I thank the Minister of State for his openness. Instead of reading from a script, as is usually the case, he has dealt with our questions. Did I hear correctly that the proposed €2 million in HSE cutbacks will no longer be going ahead?

I am sorry if I am breaking from procedure, but I am trying to respond.

We thank the Minister of State.

I wish to be clear. Deputy O'Donnell asked whether I had set a timeframe. At the morning meeting with the brothers, I put it to them that I could not accept that the centre would be closed for the sake of €150,000 out of a budget of €25 million to €30 million. To be fair to them, they responded to the effect that they would re-examine the scenario as regards the specific level of funding required to open the home.

I am trying to be as helpful as possible. It is important to put on the record that I am not taking this debate simply because of this particular respite issue. I implemented the value for money review to ensure that savings would remain in front line services. I insisted that two people from the sector be involved in the review. There is no sleight of hand.

I cannot give a commitment before the House rises because I will only be meeting the umbrella group for the brothers, the daughters and the heads of the sensory, physical and intellectual disability sector at 5 p.m. tomorrow. The €1.6 billion allocated to the service provides adequate resources to continue respite care.

Does the same pertain to Galway?

I do not want to refer to my prepared script, but I have supplied it to the Deputies. To be fair, no pressure was put on the brothers to respond immediately. They have stated that they have within their resources the ability to continue the services.

Will that be without the €2 million in further cutbacks?

As stated by the Taoiseach this morning, the commitment to retaining respite for this year——

That is what we all want.

I cannot make a prediction for next year. This year, we must live up to our commitment to provide for front line services.

I have a final point. The Government is no longer requesting €2 million in cutbacks from the Brothers of Charity in Galway. Will a similar arrangement be made with the brothers in Bawnmore in Limerick? It would enable them to find the €150,000 necessary to get their respite service up and running. Will the Minister of State make contact with the brothers in Bawnmore tomorrow to confirm whether respite services will open?

I do not need to make contact with the brothers because they are committed to providing resources to continue the respite care. The commitment given by the Taoiseach and me this morning was to restore respite services. I am not trying to play with words, but I understand last week's meeting with the HSE in Galway used the terminology of €2 million in savings rather than cuts. There was no specific demand to cut money from the service. This year's service level agreements are in place. That is the commitment.

I thank the Minister of State for the way in which he has handled this debate. It has been one of the Dáil's best Adjournment matters. I thank the Minister of State sincerely for answering our questions instead of just reading from a script. I also thank the Acting Chairman for being so lenient with Deputies and for allowing the debate on this important matter to proceed.

Is the Minister of State committed to having the respite services reopened?

Local Authority Mortgages

I thank the Minister of State for the previous debate. The manner in which it was taken should be repeated regularly, as it was of benefit to the Opposition.

I raised the matter of local authorities' household loans in March. It relates to the announcement yesterday by the Taoiseach and the Ministers for Finance and Communications, Energy and Natural Resources concerning their proposal. In Dan White's Evening Herald article entitled, “NAMA for the little man? Not a chance”, he states: “For those of us who were hoping for some original thinking on the problems of mortgage arrears and other personal debt, a NAMA for the little man, the report came as a severe disappointment.” According to Charlie Weston and Áine Kerr in today’s Irish Independent, yesterday’s announcement meant that “people unable to manage repayments should be encouraged to leave their home and be provided with social housing”. Their article went on: “When it is concluded that the mortgage is unsustainable then forbearance is unlikely to be appropriate and voluntary surrender may be necessary.” The article also states: “People should be assisted in ‘applying for social housing or other long-term housing supports appropriate to their needs’.” They assert that the mortgage arrears resolution process, MARP, would allow home buyers to extend the terms of their mortgages, pay interest only or take payment breaks.

In the context of people with local authority loans, I have been seeking this type of latitude from the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I have asked him to implement a ministerial order in respect of section 34 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, which states: "Where there are moneys due and owing by a household to a housing authority under any of the provisions to which this section applies and the housing authority is satisfied that the household would otherwise suffer undue hardship, the housing authority may enter into arrangements with the household for the payment of those moneys (together with any interest that may have accrued under section 33(2)) by such instalments and at such times as the housing authority considers reasonable in all the circumstances in addition to any rent, charges, fees or loan repayments that the household is paying to the authority.” That would allow the local authority to deal with the person in receipt of the loan. On the one hand we are talking about the Government giving direction to the banks as to how they should deal with the matter, while on the other within its own remit, it is refusing to allow the people to deal with the local authorities. In the essence of natural justice one would have to ask how the Government is doing this. How in the name of God is it saying that the banks must do this while denying people who purchase from local authorities the right to do it? That could not be fair.

The amazing thing is that under other sections of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 the Minister made a ministerial order. However, the one that would be effective in ensuring that a person has a roof over his or her head he denies. In today's newspaper report of what was announced yesterday it states that people will have to look for social housing yet when people talk to the local authorities they are being told in effect: "No, the deal is there and you contracted to pay so much per month. We have no leeway to work with you in relation to anything else." The local authority has no leeway under the legislation to purchase the house.

This is contradictory to what the local authorities are having to suffer. I have tremendous faith in this Minister of State, Deputy Moloney. I am asking him to bring this back to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and ask that natural justice prevail, so that section 34 of that Act is brought into play, and persons with loans from local authorities will be afforded the same leeway the expert group has given to the banks in this regard. Then people will be happy.

I have heard Deputy Wall raise this issue on many occasions and I know how committed he is to see change here.

I thank the Deputy again for raising this important matter. As has been made clear by our swift response in immediately accepting all of the recommendations made by the mortgage arrears and personal debt review group in its interim report published yesterday, the Government is extremely conscious of the high value Irish people place on home ownership. Indeed, long before the setting up of the review group, we have already brought forward a range of measures to support and protect families having difficulties with their home mortgage payments.

The single most important advice for any borrower facing difficulties in meeting repayments — whether their mortgage is with a local authority or private institution — is to engage early, proactively and constructively with their lender to seek to achieve an agreed solution. To date there is no evidence to suggest that wider economic circumstances are creating problems specifically for local authority borrowers in meeting mortgage repayments. The most recent published data available to me are the service indicators 2008, published in June 2009. This shows local authority mortgage arrears levels running at 11.7%, a marginal increase on the level in 2007, which stood at 11.6%. Similarly, despite worsening economic conditions generally, repossession remains extremely rare for local authority borrowers with only 66 repossessions across all local authorities carried out in the five year period 2005-09.

Local authority borrowers have received considerable protection from the worst effects of the downturn in terms of their borrowing costs. The effective rate for borrowers has come down by 3% since end November 2008 and now stands at just 2.25%. These rates represent exceptional value by comparison to rates charged by commercial lenders; as of now, the local authority rate is more than 0.9% lower than the average market variable rate.

Provisions regarding lending by local authorities for the purposes of house purchase are set out in section 11 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1992. Where a loan stands in default, section 11(10), and more recently section 34 of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, provide that a local authority may make such monetary arrangements with a borrower as the authority considers equitable to take account of the particular circumstances. Local authorities can and do exercise the powers available to them under this section and endeavour, in all arrears cases, to engage proactively and constructively with a distressed borrower with the aim of enabling a household to regain its home. The available data strongly bears this out and suggests that repossession, where it occurs, is always a last resort.

In addition, and to support consistency of approach and ensure best practice across all local authority areas, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government recently circulated guidance, based on the regulator's code of conduct on mortgage arrears. This guidance will ensure that cases of local authority mortgage arrears are handled in a manner that is sympathetic to the needs of the particular household while also protecting the position of the local authority concerned and ensuring that distressed local authority borrowers enjoy the same protections as borrowers from other institutions.

The Minister welcomes the commitment given yesterday by the Financial Regulator to bring forward changes to the code of conduct to reflect the recommendations of the mortgage arrears and personal debt review group. He is also committed to ensuring that the guidance to local authorities fully reflects any changes made to the code of conduct.

I assure Deputy Wall that I will pass on the issues he has raised to the Minister, and I apologise that he could not be here this evening.

Special Educational Needs

I am glad to see that the Minister of State with responsibility in this area is here tonight.

Last week I was contacted by the parents of two children both aged seven and each without a place in a school for the coming September. These children are lucky they have parents who are very proactive but even they were surprised at the late notice to inform them that the school which the children had attended for the last three years could not offer them a place for the coming year.

Both children have special needs and will need a lot of support in order to remain at mainstream school. The parents have applied to three other schools and have in at least one case appealed under section 26 of the Education Act. All that it is possible for the parents to do they have done, and they are still trying desperately to ensure that their children have a school place this September. In the words of the mother: "I am running around chasing my tail and becoming more desperate every day. When I ring the national education welfare board to speak to the office dealing with my daughter's case the phone rings twice and then stops. There is no voice mail and no return call." All the schools are now on holidays and it is unlikely that places will be found for these children before September.

How hard can it be to ensure that children who started school at five have a place at seven? We all know that additional supports are needed but surely, with two years in which to assess their educational needs, it should be possible to provide school places for children who are already in school. The last date for enrolment in most schools is 31 March yet these parents were not informed until the start of June, way too late for the children to apply for a place in another school. Why was it left until the last minute? Last week, having worked on this the whole week long, I eventually decided to phone the national education and welfare board. Imagine my shock last Friday when in order to move this on and try to get a place for these children I phoned to speak to someone, only to be told that the officer dealing with the case was on holidays. People need to take holidays but when I asked when he would be back I was told not until the 30 August. I thought it was a joke at first, since that was the day the schools were going back. The same day the children are due to start school is the date the officer dealing with the case will be back at work, 30 August. On further inquiry it would appear that eight people are working in the NEWB office in Cork, and six are now on holidays, returning on 30 August.

This to me, seems incredible, but I am assured it is the case. It also explains to me in detail why there is always an enormous panic during the summer in terms of school places and why nothing happens in that period. During the summer there is always a panic about why nothing happens in addressing availability of school places. The children in question will not be dealt with until 30 August. This means that even if a place is found for them in the primary school system, it will not be well into September. By then the rest of the school will have already started and these children will be playing catch-up, as if they were not playing it to begin with.

Why is it left until the last minute to inform these parents about the placements in the schools their children were already attending? Why is no one available to help them? The kids in question have proactive parents. What about those who have parents with their own difficulties?

When parents seek assistance from staff in the National Education Welfare Board who are paid to assist them to find their way through the process, they find they are not available for the entire summer as they have the same conditions as national school teachers. It is incredible an entire office can be off until 30 August.

Will the Minister intervene to ensure the children in question have school places for the end of August, not the end of September?

I am replying to this Adjournment matter on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills.

The Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act 2004 requires that all children with special educational needs shall be educated in an inclusive environment with children who do not have such needs, unless the nature or degree of the need is such that to do so would be inconsistent with the best interests of the child or the effective provision of education for children with whom the child is to be educated.

The Department, therefore, provides for a range of placement options and supports for schools which enrol pupils with special educational needs so that, wherever a child is enrolled, he or she will have access to an appropriate education. To this end, over €1 billion has been allocated in the 2010 departmental budget to support special education in schools.

Children with special educational needs may be enrolled in a mainstream school and attend all mainstream classes. Children who are fully integrated may receive additional teaching support through a learning support teacher or a resource teacher. If the child has care needs, he or she may receive support from a special needs assistant. In other cases, a child with special needs may enrol in a mainstream school and attend a special class. This provides an option of partial inclusion in mainstream classes in line with the child's abilities. Alternatively, if appropriate, the child may enrol in a special school.

The Department supports special classes and special schools through the provision of lower pupil-teacher ratios for such classes, ranging from 6:1 to 11:1, the provision of special needs assistants and enhanced levels of capitation funding.

There are ten special schools in County Cork which cater for children with special educational needs ranging from mild and moderate to severe and profound difficulties. In addition, two schools currently cater exclusively for children with autism in the Cork area. The Department has also recently granted recognition to two other such schools.

The question of enrolment in individual schools is the responsibility of the managerial authority of those schools. The Department's main responsibility is to ensure schools in an area can, between them, cater for all pupils seeking places. This may result, however, in some pupils not obtaining a place in the school of their first choice.

It is the responsibility of the managerial authorities of schools to implement an enrolment policy in accordance with the Education Act 1998. In this regard, a board of management may find it necessary to restrict enrolment to children from a particular area or a particular age group or, occasionally, on the basis of some other criterion. This selection process and the enrolment policy on which it is based must be non-discriminatory and must be applied fairly in respect of all applicants.

Under the Education Act 1998, each school is legally obliged to disclose its enrolment policy and to ensure principles of equality and the right of parents to send their children to a school of the parents' choice are respected. Section 29 of the Education Act 1998 also provides parents with an appeals process where a board of management of a school or a person acting on behalf of the board refuses enrolment to a student. Where a school refuses to enrol a pupil, the school is obliged to inform parents of their right under section 29 of the Education Act 1998 to appeal that decision to either the relevant vocational educational committee or to the Secretary General of the Department.

The National Educational Welfare Board is the statutory agency which can——

The Minister of State should take his time now and read this part of his reply very slowly.

The Minister of State without interruption.

——assist parents who are experiencing difficulty in securing a school place for their child. I take the point the Deputy raised.

At present, the Department funds over 8,600 whole-time equivalent learning support-resource teacher posts, over 10,000 whole-time equivalent special needs assistant posts and over 1,000 teachers in special schools.

Requests for support or assistance for children with special educational needs are made by schools directly to the National Council for Special Education which is responsible, through its network of local special educational needs organisers, for allocating resource teachers and special needs assistants to schools to support children with special needs. The council operates within the Department's criteria in allocating such support. Parents may also contact their local special needs assistant directly to discuss their child's special educational needs.

In addition, enhanced capitation funding is paid to special schools and in respect of special classes in mainstream schools. The Department also provides over €50 million annually for special school transport arrangements. To further support the inclusion of children with special needs, all new school buildings and extensions are designed to enable access for all.

The Deputy's point about placements beginning at the end of August makes sense. I will bring the matter up with the Minister in the morning and respond to the Deputy as early as I can in the next two weeks.

The Dáil adjourned at 12.30 a.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 8 July 2010.
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