Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Oct 2010

Vol. 719 No. 1

Adjournment Debate

Schools Building Projects

Deputy Michael McGrath

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter, an important one for Ballygarvan, County Cork. The need for a new national school building in Ballygarvan was accepted by the Department of Education and Skills in the late 1990s. Enrolment at the school has expanded in recent years while conditions in the existing buildings are substandard with an over reliance on expensive prefab accommodation. There is also a lack of space for recreational and play areas for the children.

The Department approved a 16-classroom school to be built on a green-field site. The project, however, was bedevilled by the need to secure a suitable site. Although three separate land parcels with three separate owners comprised the preferred site, after enormous work by the local community, its public representatives and the Department the site was secured. The then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, who also had served the constituency as a Deputy, approved the appointment of a design team and the project progressed through the various planning stages. It was then put out to tender.

The school was to be constructed using a modular build model in a five-month timescale. The preferred bidder for the school building project is McInerney Holdings but it went into interim examinership recently. I hope it will be in a position to fulfil its contract with this building and begin construction as soon as possible.

The community in Ballygarvan wants to know the status of the project and if the preferred bidder will be able to proceed. If this were not to be the case, will the project have to be retendered or can the Department select the next bidder from the original tender process? The local community also wants funding for the project to be confirmed. If construction proceeded, it would be a great boost to this close-knit community which has fund-raised for many years for a new school building. Will the Minister of State give some indication as to when construction on site will begin and a reassurance the project is going ahead?

Minister of State at the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Deputy Ciarán Cuffe)

I am taking this matter on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Coughlan. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it provides me with the opportunity to outline to the House the strategy for capital investment in education projects and, in particular, Ballygarvan national school.

The allocation of funding for school buildings in 2010 is just under €579 million, including the carryover of €72 million deferred funding from 2009. This represents a significant investment in the schools building and modernisation programme. This level of funding, at a time of great pressure on public finances, is a sign of the Government's commitment to investing in school infrastructure and will permit the continuation of the Department's programme of sustained investment in primary and post primary schools.

With regard to Ballygarvan national school, the need to provide for additional school places has already been determined. Consequently, the proposed project for the construction of a new 16-classroom school was one of 25 projects announced to commence architectural planning in February 2009. Following this announcement, detailed designs were prepared, planning permission lodged and a tender competition held. Unfortunately, delays in securing planning permission and the acquisition by the patron of the two parcels of land required for the proposed new school building have impacted on the scheduled delivery of the project.

However, I am pleased that planning permission for the proposed new school was granted in May and the acquisition of the site completed by the patron in recent weeks. The completion of the land transfers in recent weeks by the patron has enabled the Department to enter into discussions with the preferred bidder. The Deputy will appreciate these discussions are at a sensitive stage. Accordingly, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on them. When these discussions have concluded, the implications for the project will then be examined. In the meantime, the Department will continue to liaise with the patron and the school authorities regarding the proposed project.

National Paediatric Hospital

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

With no disrespect to the two Ministers of State opposite, I regret the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, is not in the Chamber to take this important matter. She did not even attend the Chamber earlier when the matter was raised on the Order of Business.

My only concern is for the best outcome for the country's children. The resignation of Philip Lynch as chairman of the national paediatric hospital development board has cast a cloud over the hospital's future, however. Several substantial issues raised by Mr. Lynch have not been adequately answered by the Government.

Has the €400 million funding for the project been ring-fenced? A gap in funding, already believed to be €200 million, will have to be made up in philanthropic donations. From inquiries I have learned no one believes such a gap can be filled by this means.

The site for the proposed hospital has been controversial since it was first announced. There have been constant questions about the level of consultation and transparency in this choice. It is also believed political pressure was brought to bear on the choice. It is now being asked whether a national children's hospital can be delivered. Clear answers need to be provided to these questions.

Mr. Lynch also raised questions as to whether funding has been secured for an ambulatory centre at Tallaght which was to be part of the national paediatric hospital.

The public has lost trust in believing the Government has the capacity or even intends to develop a national paediatric hospital. Questions have also been raised as to whether the preferred site is appropriate since access, in particular, seems to be a problem. I do not just raise the question of whether it should be built on a greenfield site. Other suggestions, such as locating it at St. James's Hospital, were put forward at the time.

The questions I ask must be answered in the immediate future. Somebody must examine these issues independently, preferably somebody with expertise from outside this country. He or she should provide the public with honest answers to all these questions. The biggest question now is whether the funding will be available at all, irrespective of the site on which the hospital is to be built. Is the funding secured or can it be secured?

These questions should have been answered tonight by the Minister for Health and Children, who is responsible. She went on the airwaves over the weekend and blustered on this. She basically said: "I am the Minister, I am telling you it is going to happen and that will have to be good enough." A Green Party Minister and Fianna Fáil Minister are present. It should not be good enough for either of their parties to simply have the Minister for Health and Children say that. This man was put in the position of chairing this group. He is a person in whom I presume the Government had faith at the time. He has now resigned and raised these substantial questions which were not answered in a transparent or effective way by the Minister for Health and Children over the weekend.

I look forward to the Minister of State's reply, but this is not an adequate way of dealing with the issue. The Minister for Health and Children has not been in the House to answer questions and there was no response from the Government today to provide for a proper question and answer session with the Minister to address this crucial issue for our children.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Barry Andrews)

No discourtesy is meant by my response to this important issue. The Minister, Deputy Harney, has invested a huge amount of time, appropriately, in this very serious matter for sick children.

The Government's priority is to provide the best standard of complex hospital care for children here. To further that priority the Government is fully committed to the construction of the new national paediatric hospital at the Mater Hospital site and to provide the associated ambulatory and urgent care centre at Tallaght Hospital. This is an essential part of the overall development and it is expected to open at the end of 2013. In late 2005 McKinsey and Company were engaged by the HSE to advise on the future strategic organisation of tertiary paediatric services. The resulting report, "Children's Health First", recommended that the new paediatric hospital should be located alongside a leading academic teaching hospital in Dublin. The principle of location alongside a leading academic teaching hospital is in line with widespread international best practice and enjoys widespread support. A joint task group, representative of the Department of Health and Children, the Office of Public Works and the HSE, was established in February 2006. This task group had extensive consultations with various stakeholders, including the three existing paediatric hospitals, the three maternity hospitals and external experts.

The high level framework brief for the new hospital, prepared by Rawlinson Kelly & Whittlestone Ltd., RKW, was completed in October 2008. The RKW report was informed by clinical and architectural experts from major children's hospitals in Toronto, Philadelphia and Manchester. The report includes a detailed assessment of capacity and concludes that the site adjoining the Mater Hospital can accommodate all the requirements of the new hospital and still allow expansion capacity beyond the year 2021. The designs for the new children's hospital have demonstrated that the site at the Mater campus meets the requirements for children, young people and their families. The Government decision to locate the new hospital on the Mater Hospital site is therefore based on the best possible expert advice and on internationally established best practice. The decision has been widely welcomed and has recently been supported by the faculty of paediatrics of the Royal College of Physicians in Ireland.

In addition, Dr. Ronnie Pollock of MPA Healthcare, London, was asked by the parents' group, the New Crumlin Hospital Group, whether the new hospital on the proposed site could provide the international standard of excellence in tertiary health care for children. Dr. Pollock replied: "it most certainly can. The synergy created by assembling some of the best clinical and research skills in the country on a single site will create the environment for Ireland to progress further in international standing with measurable benefits for children and adults." While the debate around location has been re-opened in recent weeks, the case for locating the hospital alongside a major acute adult facility remains unchanged. Whereas it may be possible to build the hospital somewhere more cheaply on a greenfield site, this once-off saving would be offset by higher running costs every year. The Mater Hospital site offers economies of scale and scope for shared services that cannot be achieved in such an undeveloped location.

In this regard the HSE has estimated that the cost of building the hospital to the same specification on a greenfield site would be in the region of €549 million whereas the cost of construction on the Mater Hospital site is estimated at €600 million. Both amounts exclude the cost of the ambulatory and urgent care centre at Tallaght. However, it must be borne in mind that the projected amount of €51 million would be a once-off saving. The savings derived each year from efficiencies delivered by shared services and economies of scale which would be available at the Mater Hospital site would not be available on the stand-alone site. It is estimated that a decision to move to a greenfield site could further delay the development by up to two years. The Minister does not believe that such a delay is warranted or justified. It is clear, therefore, that there is no good reason for changing a decision that was very carefully reached. It would risk delaying the project considerably and there would be serious disadvantages if the hospital were built on a stand-alone site.

The Minister established the national paediatric hospital development board in May 2007. Mr. Philip Lynch was appointed as chairman to the board. Mr. Lynch accepted appointment as chairman in the full knowledge that the location had been decided upon and that the function of the development board was to plan, design, build, furnish and equip the new national children's hospital on the Mater Hospital site. The Minister reluctantly asked for Mr. Lynch's resignation when it became clear that he could not accept the Government's position on the location of the hospital. Mr. John Gallagher, the new chairman of the national paediatric hospital development board, has experience and expertise in the areas of project delivery and philanthropic funding.

The board will now press ahead with work on the development. It commenced the planning process for the hospital directly with An Bord Pleanála on 11 October 2010. The planning process is proceeding under the Planning and Development (Amendment) Act 2010. The Minister believes this new Act has helped to streamline the process, by a direct referral to An Bord Pleanála. The estimated completion date for construction of the hospital is the last quarter of 2014. The Minister has asked the HSE to ensure that the fit out and commissioning of the hospital takes place as soon as possible after this.

The current estimate of the construction cost for the entire project is €650 million. This is a significant reduction on earlier estimates. The hospital will be funded from a total of €400 million from the taxpayer; €50 million from the HSE for the ambulatory and urgent care centre in Tallaght Hospital; €90 million in respect of car park, research, education and other elements; and €110 million from philanthropic funding. While challenging, the philanthropic element is considered to be a realistic sum for a project of this size. It is a statutory function of the national paediatric hospital development board to develop sources of philanthropic funding, and it has been working on this issue for some time. The Minister is confident that we will meet our objective of providing a world class paediatric service for our children in the new national paediatric hospital.

Fishing Vessel Licences

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan

Since 1 October 2010 all 15 m to 24 m vessels must have a fishing vessel safety certificate, FVSC, to continue fishing. To obtain such a certificate, a vessel must undergo the code of practice survey with the marine survey office, MSO.

The initial cost of the survey is €100 per metre. That is a minimum cost of €1,500 and a maximum cost of €2,400. To complete the inclination stability portion of the survey the majority of vessels would have to engage the services of a naval architect, the cost of which is between €2,000 and €3,000. In addition, vessel owners are usually given a list of works to be carried out on their vessel and the current experience is that the cost of these works varies from €20,000 to €100,000. There are 99 vessels in the Irish fleet of 15 m to 24 m aged more than ten years which would be required to undergo the process outlined to obtain a fishing vessel safety certificate. Of these 99 vessels, only 63 had applied for the survey at the end of September.

Up to date figures were requested from the MSO and the licensing section of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The MSO advised that there were 89 vessels in the 15 m to 24 m category which had obtained either final or interim certificates. However, this figure includes less than ten-year old vessels that would have undergone the survey last year. No breakdown of the numbers in the under ten-year category and over ten-year category was forthcoming. It also advises that 43 vessels still undergoing the survey process have not received a certificate and they are tied up. No updated figure was provided regarding vessels due to undergo the survey but whose owners did not apply.

The owners of 36 vessels did not apply for the survey and for the majority the reason they did not apply was their vessel would not have been capable of passing the survey, regardless of the works carried out on it, or they were unable to obtain the finance necessary to complete the survey process. These vessels have been tied up and their crews face the unemployment offices. The Irish Fish Producers Organisation estimates that 200 jobs have been lost as the 36 vessels referred to have had to cease fishing and their crews are now unemployed. Temporary job losses are related to the vessels undergoing the survey but which have not completed a significant portion of the work and, therefore, do not have a fishing vessel safety certificate.

I received a letter from a fisherman from Fenit, County Kerry, who was fishing on a 23 m trawler out of that port. He confirmed that he and many other trawler owners along the coast had been tied up since 1 October because their fishing licences will not be issued until they comply with a certificate of competency, COC, the Minister introduced three years ago. According to this fisherman, up to 300 fishermen are out of work with no income because they are self-employed and, therefore, not entitled to social welfare. There is also a threat to many onshore jobs in the fishing industry. He said large sums need to be spent in order that the oldest boats comply and because there is no access to finance through the banks, the owners cannot carry out this work.

He asks that the Minister provide a temporary certificate until a full survey is carried out. Fisherman are more safety conscious nowadays than they were in the past and they have no intention of going to sea to risk their own lives or those of their crew. There is no question of negligence involved in this problem; it is a matter for expediency to allow them to fish coming up to Christmas. The MSO does not have sufficient staff to survey the boats in question anyway and it will take them some time to get around. We do not have sufficient dry dock facilities to examine these boats either. Will the Minister of State convey to the Minister that the solution to this matter is to issue temporary safety certificates?

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Transport. I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, which relates to the Merchant Shipping (Safety of Fishing Vessels) (15-24 Metres) Regulations 2007. We can all recall the devastation caused by the fishing vessel tragedies in 2007. In one weekend three fishing vessels sank with the loss of seven fishermen. In total during 2007, 12 fishermen lost their lives in fishing vessels. Each of these was traumatic for the families involved and the devastation for them continues to this day. We had to take action to ensure the safety of fishing vessels and their crews because of these tragedies and the public outcry about poor safety in the fishing industry.

The development of these safety regulations for fishing vessels dates back to the fishing vessel safety review group, which reported in 1996. This group was established against the background of concerns about the safety of fishing vessels and their crews. One key recommendation made by that group was for the establishment of a safety regime for fishing vessels covering stability, strength, hull and machinery. Such a scheme was introduced in 1999 for fishing vessels greater than 24 m and a further scheme was introduced for fishing vessels shorter than 15 m in 2004.

Following several fishing vessel tragedies in 2007, efforts focused on the development of such a scheme for the fishing vessels in the 15 m to 24 m category. The Department of Transport developed regulations for these vessels based on international standards and these regulations were subject to extensive public consultations, following which, the regulations entered into force in September of that year. Fishing vessels within the scope of the regulations are required to undergo a survey and to be issued with a fishing vessel safety certificate. The regulations were implemented on a phased basis and came into operation as follows: on 1 October 2007, for new vessels; on 1 October 2008, for existing vessels the keel of which was laid or which was at a similar stage of construction on or after 1 October 1997; on 1 October 2009, for existing vessels the keel of which was laid or which was at a similar stage of construction on or after 1 October 1987; and on 1 October 2010, for existing vessels the keel of which was laid or which was at a similar stage of construction before 1 October 1987.

The Department of Transport engaged extensively with those in the fishing industry to inform them of the regulations. We held regular meetings with industry representatives after the regulations came into force in 2007 and the MSO provided regional seminars to inform fishing vessel operators of the requirements. The office continues to work with the fishing vessel owners in connection with them achieving compliance for their vessels.

To date, a total of 91 vessels in the 15 m to 24 m range have been issued or have been cleared to be issued with a certificate. The MSO continues to issue interim certification to fishing vessels that have successfully met the minimum construction, stability and safety equipment requirements but which have not completely fulfilled all the other requirements of the regulations. This has enabled the owners of such vessels to continue fishing and to schedule the work for full compliance in agreement with the MSO. In addition, there are approximately 40 fishing vessels whose owners have contacted the Department and whose vessels have yet to complete the survey. These are at varying stages of completion. A number of these will shortly be issued with certificates of clearance to operate. However, a number have been found to have serious safety deficiencies that pose an immediate risk to the safety of the vessel and to the crew. These cannot be issued with a certificate until such deficiencies have been rectified.

The MSO also estimates that a further 20 vessel owners in this category have not made contact with the office regarding arranging the necessary survey. In these cases such vessels cannot be issued with a certificate. The office works closely with the sea fisheries administration, SFA, of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food as the SFA under legislation cannot issue a commercial fishing licence to a vessel that does not comply with the safety regulations. Fast-track procedures are in place so that as soon as a vessel reaches compliant status, the SFA is informed by the Marine Survey Office, thus enabling the fishing vessel licensing process to be initiated in tandem with the process for the issue of the certificate.

The introduction of these regulations formed an important part of the Department's programme to improve maritime safety and in particular to reduce the number of deaths and injuries in the fishing industry, which have in the past so seriously affected our coastal communities. The 15 m to 24 m segment of the fleet is the final segment of the fishing vessel fleet to be brought under a safety survey regime. I, therefore, encourage any vessel owner who has yet to apply to do so now and to engage with the MSO on progressing his or her vessel towards compliance.

Air Services

Deputy Joe Costello

I raise this issue because of the statement made in an interview in the German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, today by Michael O’Leary, the chief executive officer of Ryanair, that he expects the Government to sell its 25% stake in Aer Lingus to his company. While this is alarming, the manner in which he made this statement is even more alarming because inherent in it is a presumption that the Government needs money and it is only a matter of him waiting before the stake falls into his hands.

The danger is that such a takeover would create a monopoly in the Irish aviation industry with Ryanair and Aer Lingus combined having 80% of the air traffic. This would be an unacceptable state of affairs as regards competition. It would be a disaster for the Irish consumer because the monopoly would immediately begin to exercise its muscle and the consumer would suffer.

This is an island nation and connectivity is essential for trade, travel and tourism. A monopoly would eliminate that competition and leave the country at the mercy of Ryanair's policies and shareholders. We have seen how ruthless Ryanair can be when it comes to implementing its policy and getting a dividend for its shareholders.

Last year, Ryanair made a derisory offer of €188 million for the Aer Lingus stake. This is all Ryanair was prepared to offer in 2009 for a 25% stake. It is clear that Mr. Michael O'Leary is still thinking of acquiring Aer Lingus for a bargain basement price. Given the exigencies of the budgetary situation, the fact that the economy is in dire straits and the Government desperately needs money, the State might dispose of some of the national assets or part of the private asset in the possession of the State. We must be very careful when dealing with this issue because we have seen what has happened in the financial institutions when we relied entirely on the private banking sector. We saw very quickly that greed took over and the national interest did not loom at all on the horizon. We must be very careful with the disposal of the State's share in this sector because it is the only way we can protect the national interest.

Aer Lingus has shown quite healthy and robust progress this year. The last quarter results surprised the market with better than expected profits. It is expected that Aer Lingus could make a profit of anything between €40 million and €50 million this year. It has been very effective and creative in its activities. It is looking for niche markets, especially in the area of transfer of passengers. Ireland is the only country in Europe with US immigration control rights at the point of departure as distinct from destination which is remarkably attractive to transatlantic passengers. It has linked up successfully with United Airlines and is doing well on the transatlantic routes.

The European Union has determined that such a takeover would be anti-competitive and would create a monopoly of 80% of air traffic which would not be regarded as complying with European directives. The State and the other stakeholders, including the employee share ownership trust, ESOT, have previously rejected an application from Ryanair. On this occasion, the Government should categorically state once and for all its position on the matter and assure the House that it will not sell the 25% stake which would allow Ryanair to take absolute control given that it currently owns 29.88% of the company.

Deputy Ciarán Cuffe

I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, and I thank Deputy Costello for raising this matter on the Adjournment. I note Deputy Costello has drawn attention to Mr. Michael O'Leary's statement in the German press this morning but I learned long ago that it is important to take his statements with a large pinch, if not a pillar, of salt. That said, I have great admiration for his success in reducing carbon emissions per passenger kilometre within the airline industry.

The Government's aviation strategy is to promote regular, safe, cost-effective and competitive air services linking the country with key business and tourism markets. Promoting competition among airlines serving the Irish market has been the cornerstone of this strategy for many years. It has been proved that supporting competition and choice is in the best interests of consumers and the Irish economy. This policy has served Ireland well since the European air transport market was fully liberalised in the early 1990s. The success of the Government's pro-competition policies in the air transport market was demonstrated by the dramatic increase in the number of services into and out of Ireland and the rapid growth in passenger numbers over a 15-year period until the global recession hit the industry hard in 2008 and 2009.

The sector continues to respond to the dramatic fall-off in consumer demand for discretionary air travel. The two main Irish carriers, Aer Lingus and Ryanair, have taken the necessary steps to match carefully capacity with demand and have sought to reduce operating costs wherever possible. While this strategy has seen the reduction in capacity and services on certain routes, the Minister for Transport is hopeful that the long-term future of the Irish airline sector is secure and that growth in services and capacity will return when genuine seasonal demand warrants redeployment of airline capacity.

The Government wants to see a competitive dynamic maintained in the air transport market. To this end, it wants to see the continued presence of at least two strong competing airlines serving our air transport needs, both in the short-haul and long-haul markets.

In privatising Aer Lingus in 2006, the Government decided to retain a significant minority shareholding of 25% to protect our strategic aviation interests, particularly the company's valuable slot portfolio at London's Heathrow Airport. This policy has not changed and there has been no recent consideration of any change to that policy. The Government used its shareholding in Aer Lingus to block the attempted takeover of Aer Lingus by Ryanair in 2007 and again in 2008, primarily on the grounds that our competition concerns were not being addressed in the takeover proposals. Earlier this year, the European General Court delivered its judgment in an appeal by Ryanair against the European Commission's prohibition of its takeover of Aer Lingus in 2007. The court upheld the Commission's decision and noted that none of the arguments put forward by Ryanair was capable of calling into question the Commission's finding that the proposed merger would significantly impede effective competition. The Government welcomed this judgment of the European Court. In the absence of a satisfactory competition remedies package, the merger of the two largest airlines in the Irish air transport market would have had a significant detrimental effect on competition and consumer choice, with negative long-term consequences for Irish aviation.

As an island nation on the western fringes of Europe, international air links are of much greater importance for Ireland than for countries with land transport connections to their neighbours and trading partners. As a relatively small country and despite the ongoing recession, the Irish air transport market continues to enjoy a disproportionately high level of international air services. The Minister for Transport believes competition in the airline industry is the main factor underpinning this level of connectivity.

The aviation sector has always been cyclical in nature and is also especially susceptible to external shocks. In the last decade or so the global airline industry has been significantly affected by events such as the September 2001 terrorist attacks, the SARS outbreak in 2003 and the record peak in oil prices in 2008. The current recession is the latest crisis to hit the sector which, historically, has had low profitability. The Irish airline sector in particular, however, has shown remarkable resilience in the face of these challenges over the years. Irish airlines have repeatedly demonstrated innovation and flexibility in response to changing circumstances and, for this reason, the Minister for Transport is confident the sector will play a very important part in our economic recovery in the years ahead. For its part, the Government will continue to facilitate the development of as wide a range as possible of competitive air services for the benefit of Irish business and tourism and will continue to foster effective competition among all airlines operating in the Irish market.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 20 October 2010.