It is proposed to take No. a16, statements on the eurogroup Finance Ministers' meeting of Sunday 21 November 2010, which is on the Supplementary Order Paper. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. a16 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. tonight and the following arrangements shall apply: the statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions at 6.35 p.m. for a period not exceeding 20 minutes and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 78, motion re corporation tax rate.
Order of Business
There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a16, statements on the eurogroup Finance Ministers' meeting on Sunday 21 November 2010, agreed to ?
This procedure is probably the most momentous decision in the history of the State. It is the effect of a decision by the Government to request assistance from the European Central Bank, the EU Commission and the International Monetary Fund. The proposal that this would merit a mere 90 minutes debate in the Dáil is unbecoming to the Constitution and the people of Ireland.
The Taoiseach himself needs to come to the House and explain in detail to the people what his Cabinet signed off on by way of a virtual meeting and videoconference of Finance Ministers. Under the proposed arrangements, the Labour Party would have one 15 minute speaking slot and only the Minister for Finance would speak for the Government. It is extraordinarily inappropriate and insulting to the people not to have the details of this decision explained in our Parliament.
We are being told by every newspaper in the world what the Irish people need to do. Everyone in this House is conscious of our international responsibilities and our responsibilities to the European Union. However, under the Constitution we have a responsibility primarily to the citizens of our own country. That starts with explaining this. We object to a 90 minute debate as grotesque.
Deputy, we are on the Order of Business. What you are doing is disorderly and inappropriate. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
I oppose the Order of Business as presented by the Taoiseach. It is absolutely inappropriate that he is even proposing an Order of Business today when he should have gone to the park yesterday evening if not a long time before, as we have called for, to allow the people the opportunity to give a mandate to a Government in order to ensure confidence is restored and that measures are introduced——
Going away on a tangent on the Order of Business is out of order.
I am on no tangent. I will explain why I am opposing the Order of Business.
We are not going to have an explanation at this point. There is no provision on the Order of Business for explanations such as this.
There is indeed. It is the precedent day after day.
The Deputy will have ample opportunity to raise these matters when statements, questions and answers start later.
If it is only what I am saying that the Ceann Comhairle does not like, that is tough. The fact of the matter is that we should not be having this Order of Business today. The Taoiseach has not got the support of either his own party or his coalition partners——
Those points can be made later.
——who indicated yesterday that they no longer have confidence in him.
Very brief statements on motions on the Order of Business.
It is the only example I can think of from history where rats have given notice of their intention to abandon the sinking ship some weeks or months in advance.
The Deputy is simply out of order.
No. The fact of the matter is that the proposition——
Deputy Ó Caoláin does not believe in any kind of order——
——is absolutely unacceptable.
I ask the Deputy to resume his seat. We are on the Order of Business and need to move on.
Not even public order.
This Government is seeking to cling on to power in order to straitjacket the Irish electorate into a budget it is not prepared to support——
The Deputy is disregarding the wishes of the Chair. I ask him to resume his seat.
——and a four-year plan, the detail of which it has not yet seen. It is absolutely unacceptable.
I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
Furthermore, an IMF and ECB debt is to be strapped around our shoulders for generations.
The Deputy can make those points later,——
——not on the Order of Business and in such a manner.
It is unacceptable, we will not accept it and we are calling on the Government to resign and on the Taoiseach to allow the people a chance to have their say.
I ask Deputy Ó Caoláin to resume his seat.
This issue relates to statements on the eurogroup meeting. The Minister for Finance will deal with it in the House and take questions thereon for 20 minutes. There will be other opportunities to address this as matters develop.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Andrews, Barry.
- Andrews, Chris.
- Ardagh, Seán.
- Aylward, Bobby.
- Blaney, Niall.
- Brady, Áine.
- Brady, Cyprian.
- Brady, Johnny.
- Browne, John.
- Byrne, Thomas.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Carey, Pat.
- Collins, Niall.
- Conlon, Margaret.
- Connick, Seán.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cregan, John.
- Cuffe, Ciarán.
- Curran, John.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Devins, Jimmy.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Finneran, Michael.
- Fitzpatrick, Michael.
- Fleming, Seán.
- Flynn, Beverley.
- Gogarty, Paul.
- Gormley, John.
- Hanafin, Mary.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Healy-Rae, Jackie.
- Hoctor, Máire.
- Kelly, Peter.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kennedy, Michael.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Lenihan, Conor.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- McGuinness, John.
- Mansergh, Martin.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Moloney, John.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Mulcahy, Michael.
- Nolan, M. J.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- O’Brien, Darragh.
- O’Connor, Charlie.
- O’Dea, Willie.
- O’Donoghue, John.
- O’Flynn, Noel.
- O’Hanlon, Rory.
- O’Keeffe, Batt.
- O’Rourke, Mary.
- O’Sullivan, Christy.
- Power, Peter.
- Power, Seán.
- Roche, Dick.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Scanlon, Eamon.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Mary.
- White, Mary Alexandra.
- Woods, Michael.
Níl
- Allen, Bernard.
- Bannon, James.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Behan, Joe.
- Breen, Pat.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Ulick.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Carey, Joe.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coonan, Noel J.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coveney, Simon.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Creed, Michael.
- Creighton, Lucinda.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Enright, Olwyn.
- Feighan, Frank.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flanagan, Terence.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Hayes, Brian.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Phil.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lynch, Ciarán.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McEntee, Shane.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Morgan, Arthur.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Neville, Dan.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O’Donnell, Kieran.
- O’Dowd, Fergus.
- O’Keeffe, Jim.
- O’Mahony, John.
- O’Shea, Brian.
- O’Sullivan, Jan.
- O’Sullivan, Maureen.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Perry, John.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- Sheehan, P. J.
- Sherlock, Seán.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Tuffy, Joanna.
- Upton, Mary.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
I note the Taoiseach's comment to the effect that November is extremely important in respect of income tax returns and receipts. He will be aware that if returns are submitted manually, they must be received by the end of October and that if they are submitted by means of Revenue's on-line service, ROS, they must be received by 17 November. As a result, the vast bulk of returns have already been received and will by now be known to the Department.
As Deputy Tom Sheahan pointed out to me, there is a need for the Minister for Finance to issue a statement of reassurance to people who have money on deposit in banks, etc., to the effect that there is absolutely no danger to their money. I accept that this has been done in the past but it is critical that the Minister should — with all the authority of which his office possessed — reiterate the position.
Is it proposed to present the four-year plan to be published tomorrow in the House or will the Government again move to some outside location in order to engage in some sort of media spectacle? The Dáil is the venue in which decisions must be made. While I accept that the four-year plan has had to obtain the approval of the EU Commission, etc., I wish to discover whether the Taoiseach proposes to launch it in the House. What arrangements will apply in respect of debating the plan in this Chamber?
In the first instance, there has been a huge increase in the number of on-line tax returns being made to the Revenue. I hope this will continue.
The four-year plan will be published tomorrow. The plan is to go to the publishers this evening and arrangements are being finalised to launch and publicise it tomorrow.
What time?
Where?
The Taoiseach without interruption.
Arrangements are being finalised for publication of the plan. On it being dealt with it can of course be discussed here. It was suggested we could start a debate on the plan as part of Thursday's business. I am sure arrangements can be made for that to happen, and to continue into the following week as well.
It should be presented in this House, not at a press conference.
I have in my hand a notice — it is not quite clear from where it was issued but it was somewhere in Government — concerning the launch of the four-year plan tomorrow. It states that the time and venue of the launch will be announced tomorrow, Wednesday, 24 November, but it invites media organisations to submit applications for accreditation for one reporter, one television camera — technicians cannot be facilitated — and one stills photographer.
More spin.
Sounds like the Soviet Union.
Clearly, the Government has already decided the arrangements for the launch of the four-year plan and it is not to be announced here in the House.
No Vincent Browne.
In the interests of the clarity of which the Taoiseach spoke earlier, can he tell us at what time will the four-year plan be launched tomorrow, where will it be launched and will the House be given an opportunity of discussing it tomorrow? Will the Minister for Finance or the Taoiseach——
Would Deputy Gilmore not like to read it first?
We will read it in the newspapers.
——come into the House to present it?
That is the respect they have for this House. They do not give tuppence about it.
On the second matter I want to raise, yesterday the Green Party announced that its Ministers intend to resign from Government some time, apparently, in the new year. The Constitution provides for the arrangements whereby Ministers resign from Government. Have the Green Ministers submitted resignations to the Taoiseach and have they indicated a date when they are resigning from Government? Second, if they have not done so, does the Taoiseach intend to exercise his prerogative under the Constitution to request that they resign?
Sack them.
Third, if he does not intend to do that, where stands the principle of collective responsibility in Government?
Is there legislation promised?
On the four-year plan, matters were being finalised when I was coming down to the House.
I thought Deputy Dempsey only nods and he does not advise.
Deputy Barrett,——
I did not realise he was advising. I am sorry, Taoiseach. Go ahead.
——we will have to proceed. If you do not stop interrupting, I will be asking you to leave.
I was only talking to my colleague over there.
Ask the Taoiseach to leave.
A Deputy
Be careful, Deputy Barrett, or he will actually get rid of a few of us.
Deputy Gogarty resigned as Chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills. That should rock the bond markets.
On the question, the four-year plan will be published tomorrow and I will convey to Deputy Gilmore what are the final arrangements later this evening.
Is it an official secret?
It is not a secret. It is just a matter of——
Is it in the conference centre at 2.30 p.m. tomorrow?
Deputy Burton,——
Can I just say to the Taoiseach on the conference centre,——
Deputy Burton,——
——it is too close to the hulk of the Anglo building?
There is no legislation promised.
Deputy Burton, I will call you when it is appropriate, please.
It would not make good television to be beside the Anglo Irish Bank building. I would not do it if I were the Taoiseach.
Is Deputy Burton persona non-grata?
I seriously would not do it.
We are in from Donegal where I did not see Deputy Shatter.
Maybe the secret service are checking around.
Can we get some silence?
I thank the Taoiseach.
Try and rein her in now and again.
Hold on now.
The Taoiseach never loses his sense of humour anyway.
Every time I get up to speak, Deputy Gilmore allows her to speak.
That is not like the Taoiseach.
It is not like Deputy Gilmore to let people——
Deputy Gilmore, let us proceed.
The Taoiseach should apologise for that remark.
Of course, I will apologise for that remark, but is anyone going to apologise when I get up to speak and Deputies interrupt me all the time?
The Taoiseach gets well paid for it. Get over it.
There is no problem——
We will get an orchestra for the Taoiseach.
Albert Reynolds got his answer in similar circumstances.
We will not have continuous interruptions.
Is the Taoiseach going to say, "That is women for you".
I call Deputy Ó Caoláin. Ar aghaidh leat, a Theachta Uí Chaoláin.
We easily know whose political descendant the Taoiseach is.
An Teachta Ó Caoláin.
We easily know whose political descendant the Taoiseach is and his reign ended in ignominy.
Deputy Burton, please. I called Deputy Ó Caoláin.
What I would like to know is whether the details of the arrangements or deal, call it as the Taoiseach pleases, with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund will be published? Will it be debated here in the House? Will we have the opportunity——
The Taoiseach should apologise. Women are equals——
Deputy Burton, there is somebody else in possession.
——to address the detail of what has been agreed or arranged with the ECB, the EU and the IMF in this House? Can the Taoiseach tell us when first the engagements with these entities took place, how long have the long-denied engagements with the ECB, the European Commission and the IMF in the context of coming to an arrangement, now signalled over the course of the weekend gone by——
These questions can be posed later. They are not appropriate for the Order of Business——
It is important. We want to know how long it has been.
——and there will be provision to ask these questions later.
Finally, if I may ask, will we get the chance to address the detail here in the House? On the four-year plan to be published tomorrow, the arrangements have been indicated, but will there be a direct opportunity for address in the Dáil and will the Dáil have the chance to vote on the four-year plan? Will there be a proper debate or are we only looking, once again, at a series of statements after statements? Will there be a proper debate? Will the Members of this House have the opportunity to pass judgment on the detail of that plan?
First, on the earlier interaction, I want to make clear that I was asking the leader of the Labour Party to rein in the deputy leader, not in any other capacity.
The Taoiseach should not have asked that.
I did not feel it was uncalled for given the fact that I am being constantly interrupted every time I get up to speak by his deputy leader. It is a constant feature of Leaders' Questions, where there seems to be a facility for two of Deputy Gilmore's party members to speak whereas there is only one of ourselves. It is a fair point to make, that Deputy Burton is constantly — it is not an intermittent matter — speaking, either over or during what I have to say. I do not accord that disrespect or discourtesy to Deputy Gilmore or to any other leader in the House. I listen attentively to everything that is being said but when I speak it seems everyone has licence to say what he or she wishes.
The Taoiseach interrupts me sometimes.
There are times when——
Deputy Morgan is not a leader yet.
——it gives Deputy Morgan a chance to catch his own breath.
I am not out of breath.
I do not want to make any more issue of that. I certainly will apologise if anyone took offence but that was not my intention.
I accept the Taoiseach's apology to me personally, but can I just say——
Deputy Burton,——
——there are very few women in this House——
——we are not going to have a lecture from the Deputy on this matter. Will the Deputy resume her seat?
The Taoiseach is not going to rein me in.
Will Deputy Burton resume her seat?
It is inappropriate language to use for women Members in the House.
Will Deputy Burton resume her seat and show some respect for the Chair of Dáil Éireann?
All Deputies are equal.
Deputy Burton, will you resume your seat?
I do not wish to engage in an issue. I am making the point that I would hope that the same courtesy would be shown to me from time to time. For whatever reason, a constant feature of the deputy leader's attendance at Leaders' Questions is to constantly interrupt.
It is going to end soon, the Taoiseach need not worry.
No, I am sure Deputy Burton will be deputy leader for another good while.
Very boastful this week.
On the question on the debate in the House, of course, the four-year plan should and must be discussed here in the House. The first instalment of that plan will be the budget and that will provide an opportunity for Deputies to vote on the plan because that will be the 2011 implementation of the plan. It is upon its implementation that it will have its effects. I look forward to a constructive discussion. Of course, it will form the basis and the context for the budget and for the other discussions that are ongoing at present.
If I may——
On the same matter——
Deputy Ó Caoláin is in possession.
The Taoiseach stated we will have the chance to vote on the measures in the four-year plan as they will present in the budget. However, this is not the case. We do not vote on the budget. I ask the Taoiseach again——
This matter will have to be pursued at a different time in a different fashion. We are on the Order of Business.
Absolutely, and this is about the ordering of business and the most important issue presenting today. I will ask the simple question again: will we have the chance not only to debate but to vote on the four-year plan itself and not on any piecemeal exposé of it through the budget measures or anything else? Will we have a proper debate and the opportunity to pass judgment by division?
The four-year plan will set out as a confidence-building measure in respect of the strategy that this and successive Governments will have to make on the adjustment of more than €15 billion. People will be able to make their political choices, that have to be made on an annual budgetary basis, but the plan has to set out what the level of correction is and proceed from there. The votes taken by the House on economic and financial policy in the country happen in the budget process with regard to the finance Bill and the decisions to be taken on Books of Estimates on an annual basis. With regard to the plan, it is a plan that can be set out and debated in the House this week and next.
The answer to my question must, therefore, be "No". That is what the Taoiseach is stating.
The Deputy will have to pursue this at a different time.
That is what the Taoiseach said. We will not get a chance in the House.
On the same matter, it has been a normal practice of Government that when major documents are published the Opposition, in confidence and subject to embargo, received an advance copy of such documents. Given that I will not be in attendance at the National Conference Centre tomorrow because we are not invited as it is for the media, will the normal courtesy arrangements apply whereby we will receive an embargoed copy? I suggest we do so by midnight tonight given that it is a four-year plan and it will require an amount of study. If not, will the Taoiseach give us the time at which we will be given a copy of the plan? Obviously, there is very strong international media interest and it is unwise of the Government not to give a copy of the plan——
It is not necessary for the Deputy to elaborate on the point.
I remind the Taoiseach——
The Deputy has made her point.
——that earlier he offered that we would meet various officials, Irish and international, and be briefed. What we would really like is a copy of the plan so that we can study it in advance of the launch and pronouncements by the Government. Will the Taoiseach confirm that the normal arrangements will apply?
With regard to the plan itself, from memory the arrangement for budgetary matters is that documents are given an hour in advance. I will have to check on the protocol for this. It is a question of making this type of arrangements. The plan will be launched in the normal way by the Government. We are not about to put forward a resolution to the House tomorrow for people to get consideration with regard to that. I will check the protocol with regard to launches of development plans and matters of such nature; I will see what the story is with regard to the normal arrangements. I cannot state offhand what those arrangements are.