Adjournment Debate

State Agencies

Deputy Joe Costello

I am pleased to have the opportunity to raise this important matter. NAMA was established in May 2009 with the remit of transferring the loans on key developments and assets from the books of State-guaranteed banks in return for Government-guaranteed securities. To date, it has accumulated €40 billion of loans on its books and, as such, has an obligation to the State to realise the maximum value on its sites. While NAMA is not the titleholder, landowner or developer of the assets acquired, the assets are strongly influenced by NAMA. This was witnessed in Dublin Central where we saw what happened to the Lighthouse Cinema on foot of upward-only rent reviews and the insistence by NAMA that the developers should extract the maximum possible commercial rent. That resulted in a rent increasing from €100,000 to €200,000 and eventually to €500,000, which is quite extraordinary in these recessionary times.

What is worse is that NAMA is operating under a veil of secrecy; it is a secret organisation. There is no asset map of NAMA property and NAMA has stated that it does not intend to produce one. NAMA considers itself to be subject to the same client-bank clauses of confidentiality.

However, NAMA is much more than a bank or asset management agency. It controls property with a value of almost one third of national GDP. Whatever NAMA does with that property will impact hugely on the future development of our economy and will play a major role in its recovery or otherwise. Nevertheless, NAMA's actions are shrouded in secrecy. There is speculation about which lands and developers are in the control of NAMA but there is no definitive way of confirming its assets. The public cannot get a proper picture of what the position is at a given time.

Once a loan is acquired by NAMA the developer is obliged to submit a business plan within 30 days. NAMA considers the plan, approves it and manages how it is to be implemented. A business plan includes all of the developer's assets but is not necessarily subject to a development-by-development approach. Again, the business plans and proposals are not subject to public scrutiny. Even the local authorities have no statutory right to have an input or to scrutinise these plans. Dublin City Council has been unable to meet the representatives of NAMA. Its requests have been refused on three separate occasions. There are no defined final dates or time limits imposed on business plan reviews. Again, there is no transparency in monitoring how NAMA does its work.

With such a vast land bank of assets throughout the country NAMA has the potential to plan strategically on a national basis and could play a major role in creating conditions for economic recovery. Through strategic planning NAMA could maximise the potential of planned or existing infrastructure and thereby enhance the potential of certain NAMA lands. While it is clear that it will take decades to emerge from the current economic crisis, NAMA appears to have no long-term strategic view. It is noteworthy that no planners are employed by the agency. Just as the boom was "developer-led", so too is the recession due to the developer-led approach of NAMA.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to ensuring that NAMA can yield a social or cultural dividend. Page 58 of the programme states: "We will seek to capture some public good from NAMA by identifying buildings that have no commercial potential, and which might be suitable as local facilities for art and culture". To date, NAMA has failed to state how this can or will be achieved, and the lack of transparency and accountability in NAMA makes it impossible to pursue the matter. The potential to realise a social, community or cultural dividend from NAMA is dependent on NAMA taking a long-term strategic view. Indeed, as long as the remit of NAMA remains the creation of the maximum return on assets at all costs, it is likely that substantial opportunities in the public interest could be overlooked or simply not prioritised.

The first essential step is a review of the freedom of information legislation to bring NAMA within its remit. The argument that NAMA's dealings are commercially sensitive is spurious. It should be possible to protect the more commercially sensitive information while at the same time ensuring that NAMA operates in a transparent, accountable manner, that it operates strategically in the national interest and that the public can see what NAMA is doing as the case arises.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I have a great deal of sympathy with the arguments he advances. It is regrettable that when the NAMA legislation was enacted it was not possible for the House to agree that an oversight committee of the House should be established to monitor NAMA's affairs. I advocated that argument at the time and it was debated. Given the significance of this issue, an oversight committee of the House would have been very helpful both within and outside the House.

If there were more openness about the transactions taking place, it would assist the re-emergence of a market. Part of the difficulty we have been suffering for the last three years of stasis in the market following the effective collapse of the banking system is the absence of openness about the transactions that are taking place. The view has been put to me, and I am inclined to believe it has merit, that if there was a requirement for notification of transactions taking place, be it with regard to commercial rents or the purchase of properties both domestic and commercial, it would assist in the re-emergence of a market. People would know where they stand and this would help to establish a floor in the market.

None of this is happening because, as Deputy Costello has argued, many of these transactions are effectively secret at present. Apart from anything else, that encourages bad practices whereby estate agents are reverting to old bad habits by puffing and mystifying the terms of actual transactions. All that is unhelpful. I will counsel my colleagues that this ought to be examined carefully. Deputy Costello is aware that my colleague, Deputy Howlin, the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform is focused on these issues in the context of the Government's reform programme. I can assure the Deputy that whether it is NAMA, the National Treasury Management Agency the Central Bank or other publicly-funded bodies in the banking and financial sector, the arguments he has raised will be given full consideration by my colleagues.

The Government is committed to an elaborate reform programme in respect of legislation to restore the Freedom of Information Act and the extension of its remit to public bodies such as the Garda Síochána. Obviously, it will not include the security dimensions of the Garda but it will be extended to the administrative side. The Government will extend the Freedom of Information Act and the Ombudsman Act to ensure that all statutory bodies, and all bodies significantly funded from the public purse, are covered. These are far-reaching reforms which are being spearheaded by the Minister, Deputy Howlin. The programme set out for him in the programme for Government is significant. He is consulting with other Ministers on the effective repeal of the 2003 amendment Act in its entirety, the inclusion of all statutory bodies including those under the aegis of the Department of Finance and the Department of Justice and Equality in particular and the identification of any other concerns that might exist regarding the impact of the Freedom of Information Acts on the discharge of Government business.

The issues raised by Deputy Costello are very important and I believe my colleagues in Government share my opinion. We are trying to get a handle on NAMA's position at present. Everybody knows how the architecture of NAMA was created and came into being; there is no point in going back over the arguments. It is in existence. Questions of commercial sensitivity arise and also with regard to matters to do with confidentiality in its proper place, but that is not to say there ought not to be oversight, and ideally, parliamentary oversight.

Questions of transparency ought to be dealt with. I am sure that my colleague, the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform, Deputy Howlin, will respond in due course.

Fuel Prices

Deputy John O’Mahony

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter. I also thank the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for being present in the Chamber to hear what I have to say.

Everyone is aware of the fact that fuel prices have been spiralling upwards. This matter affects every citizen, business and industry, especially the haulage industry, in the State. I am aware that there are no easy solutions in respect of the problem of rising fuel prices, especially as Ireland is powerless to influence international oil prices. I am not, therefore, raising this matter from the point of view of having a go at someone. I am, however, convinced that we have passed the point of diminishing returns so far as rising fuel prices are concerned. This was confirmed yesterday by the Irish Petrol Retail Association which indicated that there has been a decrease of up to 10% in fuel sales. This is because people are reducing their level of travel, which might be no bad thing in one sense. We need, however, to stimulate businesses, including those of taxi drivers and hauliers, industry and our transport services.

It should be noted that when fuel prices increase, the Exchequer takes an increased percentage. A system was implemented in the UK under which, as prices increase, the percentage taken by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs is adjusted in order that Treasury would take in the same rather than a larger amount.

I accept that resources are scarce. In that context, I wish to raise another issue that has been brought to my attention by a number of legitimate oil distributors in recent weeks. The latter have indicated to me that there has been a massive increase in the laundering of marked gas oil from the North which has found its way across the Border. This issue has not been brought to the attention of many people but I have contacted various Ministers and the Revenue Commissioners in respect of it. On 1 January last the specification used for off-road transportation was changed from 1,000 parts per million, ppm, of sulphur to 10 ppm. In effect, this means that it is more difficult to detect diesel which has been washed. As a result, this fuel can get through the system.

Once the dye marker is removed, the relevant test will not show a fuel to be a marked product which is supposed to be sold with a duty rebate. The type of product to which I refer is being sold through service stations that are leased on a short-term basis by the distributors who are purchasing it. The duty difference is 37.84 cent per litre and this gives rise to a loss of €14,380 in excise duties on a standard truckload of fuel. Most of this trade is conducted by subversive elements which are located in the Border area and which have a great deal of experience in chemistry.

A simple and quick solution in respect of the matter to which I refer would be to require all oil distributors to leave marked gas oil with the dye intact and to require a separate registration for each distributor to claim back the rebate of duty. Those who register would be obliged to meet certain criteria, such as the provision of tax clearance certificates, submission to inspections and the provision of information relating to gas oil sales. Duty could be refunded weekly. If the approach to which I refer were adopted, the problem that exists could be wiped out overnight.

A solution such as that which I propose would not cause any reduction in revenue to the State. It would, however, ease the burden on hard-pressed motorists, businesses and hauliers. A jobs initiative is due to be announced in the House next week and we want to make it less costly for businesses to operate. I am trying to be constructive with regard to that matter and, as a result, I suggest that there is a ready-made solution available in the context of adjusting fuel prices in so far as is possible, ensuring that all distributors are operating legitimately and obtaining the revenue that is due to the State. I look forward with interest to the Minister's reply in respect of this matter.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

I thank Deputy O'Mahony for raising this important issue which is of considerable concern to me and my Government colleagues. I did not anticipate the aspect of criminality to which the Deputy referred. I am aware that the type of behaviour outlined is occurring and that the customs division of the Revenue is focused on dealing with it. This is a matter of some significance which must be addressed and in respect of which vigilance is required, particularly in the context of the reported scale of the problem. I understand an incident relating to this aspect of the matter is currently in the news.

On the wider issue raised by Deputy O'Mahony, it must be acknowledged that Ireland is critically dependent on imported fossil fuels, especially oil and natural gas. Global fuel prices have been trending upwards in recent months and Ireland, along with other countries, is a price taker in international commodity markets. While active competition in retail energy markets will keep increases to a minimum, the reality is that increasing global fuel prices ultimately result in higher costs for Irish consumers, whether at the petrol pump or in electricity and gas bills. I am keenly aware of the impact this has on consumers and I am, therefore, strongly focused on implementing the programme for Government actions aimed at reducing the impact of imported fossil fuel prices on householders and businesses.

The programme for Government sets out a range of commitments on energy efficiency and renewable energy programmes which are aimed at moving the economy away from reliance on imported carbon intensive fossil fuels, in respect of which there continues to be significant price volatility. These ambitious measures will support energy affordability, enhance Ireland's competitiveness and develop new jobs and industries. I am of the view that Ireland has the opportunity to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bioenergy technologies, as well as a manufacturing hub for renewable and low-carbon technologies.

The new retrofit programme will also support employment by seeking to increase significantly the pace of uptake in respect of energy efficiency measures and by changing radically the way householders are incentivised and supported. One of the most commonly identified barriers to retrofitting is that the initial cost appears prohibitive. Under the new proposals, energy efficiency measures will be more accessible by the provision of discounts up front rather than obliging people to wait for retrospective grant payments. The new programme will entail the existing warmer homes scheme, the home energy saving scheme and the greener homes scheme being incorporated into the programme during the course of the year.

The warmer homes scheme is systematically addressing poor thermal efficiency performance of low income, privately owned housing. It provides energy improvements at no cost to eligible households and brings benefits to recipients in the context of energy affordability, tangible health improvements and overall well-being. The scheme is complemented by a similar retrofit programme which is delivered by local authorities on behalf of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. In addition, the fuel allowance provides many families with essential financial assistance in respect of the purchase of fuel. More than 370,000 households received the fuel allowance in 2010.

Grant aid to move to renewable heating is also being provided under the greener homes programme. This is allowing householders, businesses and local enterprises to move away from oil fired heating towards more efficient and sustainable forms of heating such as those produced from solar, geothermal and biomass sources.

In the transport sector, to which the Deputy referred, we are supporting a move away from imported oil through the successful introduction of bio-fuels into the fuel chain as well as an electric vehicle programme. I launched the electric vehicle grant scheme, which will sustain and expand Ireland's leadership position with regard to this new and rapidly developing technology, earlier in the year. Electric vehicles offer huge potential for Ireland not just because of their energy efficiency, but also because of the ability they provide to use cheap grid sourced electricity, an increasing amount of which will be sourced from renewable resources over the coming years.

This will have obvious benefits in reducing our dependence on imported fossil fuels in the medium term, but our early and considerable involvement in the electric vehicle sector will also provide enterprise opportunities for Irish companies. On foot of trial and pilot programmes, a number of Irish companies have already built charging systems and are involved in software design of the infrastructure.

The bio-fuel obligation scheme incentivises and enables the sustainable growth of the Irish bio-fuels market and supports indigenous bio-fuel producers, allowing for the displacement of traditional oil products in the transport sector. In total, during the first obligation period, the obligation scheme was responsible for bringing a total volume of 98.5 million litres of bio-fuel into the motor fuel market in Ireland. This equates to more than 4.25% of the transport fuel market in the State, up from practically zero in 2005. The range and breadth of the actions set out in the programme for Government demonstrate the Government's commitment to reducing the impact of high fossil fuel prices, enhancing security of supply and ensuring competitiveness.

Emergency Services

Deputy Pearse Doherty

We are all glad at this stage that the fires that have raged across many counties are now under control. However, we acknowledge the threat that many of them can re-ignite in the short term, as some of them are still smouldering in my own county of Donegal. There is also a threat in the weeks and months ahead that these fires could take place again.

The community response to these fires has been nothing short of inspiring. Over the last week to ten days, ordinary men and women have been putting themselves in the line of fire, with the support of our fire fighters, army personnel and the Civil Defence. There has been a major community mobilisation aimed at tackling these fires.

There was real sense of emergency, with fires blazing for up to ten days. Two houses in Donegal were burned out. Some farmers' livelihoods have gone up in flames. Miles and miles of fences have been destroyed. Firemen and civilians were put into dangerous situations. However, there seemed to be a lack of urgency from the State. An interdepartmental group should be established on a permanent basis to deal with responses of this nature. We had such a gripe following the big freeze and the flooding problems, and now we have issues with forest fires. There needs to be an immediate interdepartmental response to events such as these, which could be made up of Departments and State agencies such as Met Éireann, the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, the Department of Defence and the Department of Finance. Such an interdepartmental response would make sure that we harness the resources of the State appropriately and that we have an active rapid response unit.

I am sure the Minister saw the thousands of ordinary people out fighting fires. None of them was prepared. None of them knew the best protective clothing to wear or the best way to fight a fire. These are simple things that could have been explained to them if an interdepartmental unit was set up and published the best advice possible to ordinary citizens in these areas. I appeal to the Minister to set up such a unit. I also would like the Minister to look at the need to compensate farmers whose livelihoods have gone up in flames, particularly with farm inspections coming up.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

I am sure the Minister has been fully briefed on the devastating impact on farmers and on wildlife in the areas affected by the fires. It is ironic because the farming community is constantly harassed about its responsibilities to wildlife, habitats and special areas of conservation by enthusiastic people with clipboards, yet this situation of widespread devastation could have been avoided with better approaches. One such approach is related to the destocking of commonage that started in 1998. The real experts on the environment in rural areas are our farmers. Wherever there was stocking on land, wherever grazing had not been taking place, the impact was much less. Wherever there was a shortage of stock, it was more profound. That is a key issue. I know it is not the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, but I would like him to speak to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to see if this can be reviewed.

I join Deputy Doherty in commending the heroic actions of our firemen throughout the State, of the Defence Forces and, most importantly, local volunteers who would not have the skills required to do this job. The enthusiasm and the determination to assist was clear throughout Donegal and across the State.

There are also examples in some parts of the State of approaches taken by the emergency services that seemed to be more successful than approaches taken in other parts. There needs to be a complete review by the relevant Departments of lessons learned from this. Another point made is the impact of the frost, which created the circumstances that allowed the exceptional amount of gorse fires to continue.

I endorse Deputy Doherty's call for a co-ordinated emergency response to be deployed to situations like these in the future, and to pre-empt them as much as possible. We also need to deploy the same resources to the floods and to the frost. As a county councillor at the time, I have to say we were deeply disappointed with the approach of the previous Government to the crisis in the freezing temperatures. It was very slow and it took weeks to get off the ground. It is important that this Government does not repeat those mistakes. It has failed in its first test to co-ordinate the response nationally, and if it was not for local authorities, local firemen and local communities, this would have been much worse. It needs to be dealt with in an authoritative fashion. The Minister and his colleagues in the relevant Departments should sort this out. I think they should send a letter of congratulations on behalf of the Government to the local authorities and fire services, thanking them for their heroic efforts and reassuring them that they will have the supports necessary to do their job, including water tankers for the fire services. I also ask the Minister to consider the issue of destocking that has contributed to this and I remind him of the need for a better co-ordinated emergency response in the future.

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan)

I thank Deputies Doherty and Mac Lochlainn for raising this important matter. I would like to join them at the outset to express sincere appreciation to our firefighters who have worked tirelessly to tackle the wildfires which have afflicted many parts of the country in recent days. I am glad to place on record the Government's appreciation to all those agencies, including the Defence Forces, the Garda Síochána and Civil Defence, which have been working closely together to respond rapidly and appropriately to the situation as it has developed. The worst affected region has been Donegal, but other seriously affected counties include Mayo, Galway, Cavan, Monaghan, Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Meath and Louth.

The unseasonal dry and hot weather since the Government took office has created the conditions for wild land fires——

Deputy Pearse Doherty

A sight of things to come.

Deputy Phil Hogan

——and it will cause problems. Indeed, both wet and dry weather will equally cause problems. Strong winds over the past weekend have led to a rapid spread of these fires which have damaged forests and threatened houses. The nature of the soil and vegetation in upland areas is such that it is combustible and long-burning during periods of hot, dry weather. Also, the recent cold winter has removed a considerable amount of vegetation and exposed the dry, peat-type vegetation to the sun.

The response to the recent spate of grassland, forest, bog and other wildfires constitutes a significant drain on resources. However, it is important that we look after the human dimension as well as all of the other aspects of the natural terrain in order to ensure that resources are not standing in the way of ensuring that people are protected.

The fires have destroyed valuable forestry and impacted on habitats, flora and fauna and the economic cost of fires that spread across the north west and midlands is substantial. It is estimated that up to 4,000 acres of timber on privately and State-owned woodland has been destroyed.

The response also has been resource intensive. Significant costs have been incurred at a time when resources are stretched. It poses risks to personnel attending such incidents and I want to put on record my appreciation of the staff of the fire service and other services who on a daily basis put themselves in the line of fire as front-line service providers for whatever incident arises. Worryingly, it diverts resources of the fire and emergency services away from responding to other incidents. A fire appliance tackling a gorse fire may not be available to attend other life threatening incidents and there is a real possibility of tragic outcomes.

Disturbingly, there is suspicion that many of the fires were started deliberately and maliciously. Burning of vegetation by landowners is illegal between 1 March and 31 August of each year under the Wildlife (Amendment) Act 2000. I echo the comments the Minister of State, Deputy McEntee. I agree that it is completely unacceptable for a person to act so thoughtlessly as to set fire to vegetation and walk away from the consequences of that action, when those consequences could destroy the lives and livelihoods of their neighbours. All rural dwellers, farmers, forest owners, landowners, especially those who own, rent, lease or manage commonage, should unite in their response against the unacceptable behaviour of a small minority of careless and reckless people.

The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government's main role is to ensure that fire authorities are equipped and geared to respond promptly and effectively to tackle the worst effects of land and forest fires. The provision of a fire service in its functional area and the assessment of fire cover needs having regard to the nature of the fire hazards and the probable incidence and extent of fires in its area is a statutory function of individual fire authorities under section 10 of the Fire Services Act 1981.

The suggestion to have an integrated response has merit. It has occurred in this case, and I take on board the suggestions that have been made about putting it on a more formal setting. In order to tackle the problem of illegal and uncontrolled burning, the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food established last year the land and forest fires working group. The group comprised representatives from the emergency services, forest industry and State bodies, and issued ten recommendations earlier this year.

The response has been an integrated one. Each local authority has undertaken a risk assessment based on the activities and the weather patterns over the past two winters and all of the various agencies are feeding into the final report. Each of the county and city councils already has effective crises management arrangements in place. Fire authorities have been using these procedures which enable the principal response agencies together with the Defence Forces, Civil Defence and other voluntary agencies to make and co-ordinate the appropriate response to the outbreak of fires.

The chief fire officers of the affected counties have enlisted the help of other response services to assist them in containing the fires. The Defence Forces, the Garda Síochána and Civil Defence have been directly involved and their assistance to them is invaluable. The Air Corps used helicopters to drop fresh water to bring the fires under control. Coillte has also used helicopters to protect State forestry. Forty soldiers supported fire crews in Donegal. Further troops have been on standby around the country to assist local authorities if required. This assistance provided was crucial to the main priority of the fire services, which is to protect life and property.

While the weather in recent days, where it has rained, has greatly assisted attempts to bring the fires under control, all members of the public are asked to remain vigilant, as the Deputies have pointed out, and follow the instructions of the fire and emergency services until the danger has passed.

I trust that these observations will be helpful. I am aware of the need to bring together in a more co-ordinated way all of the emergency services to deal with whatever emergency, whether dry or wet weather patterns or frost, arises in the future in order to ensure that we protect landowners, householders and the environment, which we all aspire to hold in the highest possible regard.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.25 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Monday, 9 May 2011.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 5 May 2011