Adjournment Debate

School Staffing

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I had the pleasure of meeting a group of employees of Clongowes Wood College last week. Approximately 80 staff are employed in non-teaching roles, for example, in the kitchen, housekeeping, maintenance, the library, administration and so on. Some of the jobs are relatively low paid. While the subject I am raising affects these workers, it also affects staff like caretakers and school secretaries in most schools around the country.

When the workers in Clongowes were recruited, they signed contracts with the school in the same way as any other private sector worker would have signed a contract. They asked me what was the difference between them and the bankers who were not required to repay large bonuses because of private contractual arrangements that predated the banking failure. The provisions of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2.) Act 2009 preclude the renegotiation of that aspect of the bankers' contracts. What is the difference between the school's workers and the senior bankers who could not have their contracts renegotiated? These workers did not have the benefit of benchmarking or public service salary increments. They ask how the Government can interfere in a private contractual arrangement when no public funds are used to pay their wages.

If Clongowes is not the largest employer in Clane, it is close to it. Of the 140 staff, 80 are in non-teaching roles and are directly affected by this measure. The money has been taken out of their wages and, in turn, the local economy. Since some of the workers are required to sign on during the summer, we are not referring to wealthy people. They have ordinary jobs.

The legislation was accompanied by circular 70/2010, which states that all staff employed by a recognised school or vocational education committee fall within the definition of a public servant solely for the purpose of the Act. This "applies regardless of the source of the money used to fund the salary", notwithstanding the fact that the Minister does not determine their terms and conditions of employment and irrespective of whether they are eligible for or members of a public service pension scheme. The jobs initiative announced this week will dip into their pockets again, this time through their pension contributions. It makes their situation doubly unfair.

The 2009 emergency measures are due for review in June 2011. Perhaps the Minister of State will confirm at what point the review will occur and whether it is intended to amend the section that applies specifically to workers in this category. They are also seeking the withdrawal of circular 70/2010. They have private contracts and are not paid out of the public purse. As they are private sector workers, how can they be targeted in this way when they have private contractual arrangements with their private employer, namely, the school? While I stress that they are not the only people affected, as caretakers and school secretaries are also involved, they comprise a particularly large group in a boarding school.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Innovation (Deputy John Perry)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue and extend to her the apologies of the Minister, Deputy Howlin, who is on Government business.

In the context of the extreme economic and fiscal conditions of the State, the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Act 2009 provides for the reduction in the pay rates of all persons employed by bodies deemed to be public service bodies for the purposes of the legislation with effect from 1 January 2010. Such reductions apply irrespective of whether a particular post is funded in whole or in part through non-Exchequer funds or income.

The non-teaching staff referred to, such as catering, maintenance and administration staff, are deemed to be public servants within the meaning of and for the purposes of the Act, whether employed in recognised public or private schools. This position has been confirmed by legal advice. The former Minister for Finance approved a temporary exemption under section 6 of the Act for certain categories of workers in the education sector, including caretakers and secretaries, until 31 December 2010. Accordingly, the Act has been applied to those specific categories of workers in the education sector since 1 January only, in contrast to all other public servants.

It is important to understand that while there are a variety of staff across the education sector who are employed by public service bodies as defined under the Act but are either wholly or partly funded from non-Exchequer sources, there are also staff undertaking the same or similar duties whose posts are fully Exchequer funded. All of these staff have now been subject to the terms of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Act 2009.

It is also important to note that approximately €22 million in savings will be secured in 2011 through an average 5% reduction in funding grants to schools and vocational educational committees. The reduced funding will reflect the reduction in pay since 1 January. There is, therefore, a real saving to the State from this measure and all savings are important in maintaining public services.

Section 7 of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Act provides that the Minister shall, before 30 June 2011 and every year thereafter, carry out a review of the operation, effectiveness and impact of the Act, having regard to the overall economic conditions in the State and national competitiveness; consider whether the provisions of the Act continue to be necessary having regard to the purposes of the Act, the revenues of the State and Exchequer commitments in respect of public service pay and pensions; make such findings as he or she thinks appropriate consequent on the review and consideration; and cause a written report on his or her findings resulting from the review and consideration to be prepared and laid before each House of the Oireachtas. However, that review will not involve the consideration of the position of individual public servants.

Full consideration of the position of the group in question was given by the previous Minister for Finance and there are no plans to reconsider the application of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (No. 2) Act to the categories of staff referred to. As mentioned, the application of the legislation to such staff has been confirmed by legal advice, given that the staff are employed by public service bodies within the meaning of the legislation.

The Deputy also asked about the application of the proposed pension fund levy to the individuals in question. I am unaware of the circumstances of the individuals concerned, but the pension fund levy will apply to the market value of assets in funded pension schemes at a rate of 0.6%. It will be a matter for the trustees or administrators of individual pension schemes to determine whether or to what extent individual pensions will be affected. The purpose of the pension fund levy is to fund the measures announced in the jobs initiative, including the reduction in the lower rate of VAT on certain services from 13.5% to 9% and the reduction in employer PRSI, both of which will benefit lower paid workers.

Job Protection

Deputy John O’Mahony

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this major issue for discussion on the Adjournment. I raise it because of my concern for Cordil Construction, a major construction company which has been trading for many years in the west — in fact, all over the country — and completed numerous projects for both the State and private clients to the highest standards. It has continued to grow and be profitable, even in the teeth of a recession in the past four years. It has successfully completed projects for the Departments of Education and Skills, Defence, Environment, Community and Local Government and Health and Children, as well as many other State agencies. It employs more than 50 workers directly and hundreds indirectly when subcontractors and suppliers are taken into account.

It was ironic that last Tuesday, just as the Minister was announcing the jobs initiative, which I welcome, this company was getting ready a letter to its subcontractors and suppliers and temporarily suspending work on 15 sites throughout the country because of a serious cash flow problem caused by the withdrawal of overdraft facilities by its bank. The facility was reduced from €2 million to €150,000. However, the company is owed up to €4 million for projects already completed for the State and has many live projects ready to start. I appeal to someone to explain why there is no joined-up thinking on this issue. The bank involved is State-owned and the contracts involved are State contracts. Could one side of the house not help the other in order to save more than 1,000 jobs and the State the cost of putting all these workers on the dole queue at more than €25,000 per head?

I am glad to see the Minister of State with responsibility for small business, Deputy John Perry, is taking this matter because I know of his keen interest in this topic and the great work he has done on the jobs initiative projects and in bringing jobs to his area. I have no agenda whatsoever for this company. My only interest is to keep people at work and paying taxes to the State rather than drawing social welfare payments from it.

In the past few days alone I have been contacted by a number of suppliers and subcontractors who are facing ruin if this company goes under. It would cause ruin to all of the people concerned and their families and cost the State more than €11 million per year in social welfare payments. It would also delay all of the State projects mentioned, as well as the other work in which the company is involved, and cost extra money to put these projects back on track and award them to some other company. As I said, I have been contacted by a number of subcontractors and suppliers. I have also been speaking to employees of the company who are willing to restructure in any way possible if it will keep the jobs alive. I appeal to whoever is in power to do whatever is necessary. I am sure there are many other companies in a similar position. It just does not make sense to let this company go over a simple cash flow problem. We have spoken here on many occasions about recapitalisation of the banks and so on. This is a classic example of a bank squeezing a company and not allowing it to trade or continue to employ workers.

Deputy John Perry

I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter on the Adjournment and assure him of my concern about the matter. I know he has been working on this case for some time and his concern is evident.

I understand the company yesterday informed various employers and subcontractors that it intended to suspend all works on its projects for a period of two weeks owing to unforeseen factors encountered by it on its building sites, with the temporary loss of approximately 450 jobs. I am informed that it is involved in a number of contracts with Departments, including some school building and Health Service Executive projects. It has stated it is owed payment for building projects undertaken on behalf of the State and that it is experiencing cash flow problems due to difficulties in securing credit from its suppliers. Officials from my Department have been in contact with the Department of Education and Skills and I have been assured that all moneys due to be paid under the terms of the main contracts have been paid to the company.

From contact made with the Department of Health and Children, I understand that, following a number of openly advertised tender competitions, the Health Service Executive contracted the company to construct a number of health care facilities. The company successfully tendered on the advertised terms and each awarded contract was a fixed price contract in line with Department of Finance procedures. The executive was not made aware until recently of the contractor's dissatisfaction with the fixed price contract process.

I have been informed that, currently, both the executive and the contractor are engaged in a confidential conciliation process to which both parties are bound and, as a consequence, the executive cannot comment on the specifics of each project. The HSE is committed to working within the conciliation process. As Deputy O'Mahony stated, it is important to have State involvement, State contracts and this conciliation process, which I sincerely hope will go some way towards resolving this difficulty.

While I am very concerned about the difficulties being experienced by the company and the effect that even these temporary job losses have on the workers involved and their families as well as the local community, the Deputy will appreciate that there is a conciliation process under way and it would be inappropriate for me to intervene at this time. However, I urge all parties involved to engage meaningfully to expedite the process. I cannot overemphasise the importance of this process, including the role of banks in providing a credit line to companies having regard to the cashflow difficulties encountered. As Deputy O'Mahony stated, if the process is not resolved, the job losses will be immense and, on foot of such an action, there would be a massive reaction in the locality. I sincerely hope this process will be effective.

One of the key issues that impacts on the ability of viable businesses to create jobs is that of access to credit. It is essential. This is a challenge the Government is determined to address and we must not underestimate that challenge at present. The recently announced plans to restructure and recapitalise the banking system form the principal response to this challenge. These plans are designed to secure an adequate flow of credit into the economy to support economic recovery, even as the banking system is downsized. The banking system must provide substantial new lending into the economy. The business plans submitted by the pillar banks provide for more than €30 billion of total new lending over the next three years across their core business areas. Up to €20 billion of this figure, which represents a huge investment, will go to small and medium-sized businesses, which are the backbone of our economic recovery. Deputy O'Mahony stated that the need for such investment in the economy in his region is critical.

Against this background, I note from the correspondence my office received on this Adjournment matter that the company has been in continual discussions with its bank during the past fortnight in regard to the provision of a temporary facility and, given the large number of jobs at stake, I will not name the bank. I encourage all the parties involved to take a pragmatic approach in agreeing a mutually satisfactory arrangement to maintain the jobs of the workers involved. This is a very important issue. It is at the core of this economy. It involves 450 jobs directly and indirectly. It is critical that those involved in the conciliation process, the State bodies and the bank play a meaningful role in the resolution of this matter and save the jobs in this important region. I thank Deputy O'Mahony for raising this important matter and one hopes a resolution will be forthcoming.

Health Service Funding

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am delighted to have the opportunity to raise this matter. The HSE has made a decision to terminate the funding of Rape Crisis Network Ireland and SAFE Ireland, the national network for domestic violence services. These two networks between them deliver an expert national programme of work on sexual and domestic violence. They join up services across Ireland and establish standards and access for survivors. They also deliver evidence and knowledge without which the Government, specifically Ministers across six Departments, would be hard pressed to form coherent or effective policy.

The HSE will effectively terminate many of these valuable services on 1 June. I understand the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy James Reilly, has extended this deadline for one month while he conducts a review, which is very welcome, of the decisions taken by the HSE. Some of the networks' functions have now gone out to a limited tender. In regard to one of those functions, data collection, I have to hand an independent, expert assessment conducted by Dr. Maureen Lyons, the director of research design and methodology in the equality studies department in UCD, of the RCNI data collection system, which is due to be terminated, and a comparison with the HSE replacement. Dr Lyons's assessment is that the HSE data collection is not fit for purpose. That is an important point to note. It is clear that the HSE does not have adequate capacity in this regard. Who assesses the HSE and its capacity? Clearly it does not have adequate capacity in this respect. Where is the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, and the other groups when it comes to these vital services and the survivors who are lucky to be alive and are trying to live with the effects of what they have suffered daily? We are all aware from articles in the newspapers today of the situation in Donegal affecting 25 assault victims.

The HSE has decided to terminate all funding to the Rape Crisis Network Ireland and SAFE Ireland affecting all existing and planned work on preventing and addressing child sexual abuse and sexual and domestic violence, and the terms of reference issued for the selection of a future service provider are totally inadequate. I would like to know who drew up the terms of reference. They are inadequate and betray a lack of expertise in and knowledge of the area. They indicate a lack of capacity on the part of the HSE to fulfil its functions to protect those affected by abuse and domestic and sexual violence. The HSE is effectively dismissing the gold standard data collection system which it has funded and which has been developed by Rape Crisis Network Ireland over seven years. It is an international model of best practice.

I seek a reversal of the HSE decision and suspension of actions under implementation by the HSE. This is very alarming for groups locally and national umbrella bodies. If it is considered that there is some fat at the top in the national bodies, which I do not believe there is, we will accept change. The tender documents that have been issued are totally inadequate. We need a reversal of these decisions. The Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality, Mr. Sean Aylward, has also sought a reversal of this decision. The Minister has stood down that board of the HSE and who is in charge there now? There are senior officials of the Department in place. Accountability and transparency are vital but above all what is badly needed is certainty regarding the continuation of services. The angst and anxiety experienced by all the groups and their users — the service users are the people this is all about — must be alleviated by confirming certainty regarding the continuation of services.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy Róisín Shortall)

I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy James Reilly. I thank Deputy Mattie McGrath for raising it as it provides an opportunity to clarify any confusion and address any concerns on this issue.

Domestic, sexual and gender-based violence are a serious health and human rights issue. The Government's commitment to tackling this problem is clearly demonstrated by its continued support of Cosc, the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence. It was established in 2007 under the aegis of the Department of Justice and Equality. Cosc's key task is to ensure the delivery of a well co-ordinated whole-of-government response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence against women, men and older people in the community.

In March 2010 Cosc launched a four-year strategy to provide a framework for sustainable intervention to prevent and effectively respond to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The Health Service Executive published its policy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence which dovetails into Cosc's national strategy. The HSE's policy states a health-focused analysis of violence is crucial, not only because the consequences of such violence require a significant amount of health care system resources, but most important because the health care system is often the first route through which victims seek to access supports.

The HSE, as per its statutory responsibility, is committed to funding organisations that provide domestic, sexual and gender-based violence services. Based on the level of resources available, the HSE is examining how to meet the needs of victims of domestic and sexual abuse and to ensure that value for money and accountability are paramount with the avoidance of duplication.

As part of this process, changes to funding arrangements have been proposed by the HSE. The Minister for Health and Children has instructed the HSE to extend the current funding to the Rape Crisis Network and SAFE Ireland until 1 August. This will allow him and his officials time to continue their review of these proposals and to satisfy themselves as to their nature.

These two network organisations, the Rape Crisis Network and SAFE Ireland, do not provide any direct services to victims of abuse. These are provided by 62 other organisations funded by the HSE, including 20 crisis refuges, 27 domestic violence support services and 16 rape crisis centres. Total expenditure in this area in 2009 came to over €19 million.

HSE officials in the directorate of families and children social services have assured the Minister that if the changes to the funding arrangements are put in place, all current funding will be staying in this sector of service provision, aimed at supporting victims of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. However, it is planned that some of the funding will be redirected towards activities identified by the national strategy. I will relay Deputy Mattie McGrath's points about data collection to the Minister.

This initiative is not a cost-containment project but rather seeks to ensure value for money, to reduce duplication and promote a greater focus on victims. There is no plan to decrease the financial allocation to support domestic and sexual violence services in excess of any agreement between the HSE and Government allocation. The terms of reference for the selection of providers for future projects were agreed between the HSE and Cosc and include, among other factors, the capacity and relevant experience of the organisations applying.

The Minister is committed to ensuring all efforts are made to make adequate provision for the victims of violence.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 17 May 2011.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 12 May 2011