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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 19 Jul 2011

Vol. 739 No. 2

Order of Business

It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re Defence (Amendment) Bill 2011 [Seanad]; No. 19, Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2011 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 9, Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Bill 2010 [Seanad], motion to instruct the committee; and No. 20, Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Bill 2010 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m.; No. 8 shall be decided without debate; the Report and Final Stages of No. 19 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in respect of amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government; and the proceedings on No. 9 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply. The speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 3, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2011 — Order for Second Stage, Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply, the proceedings on the Second Stage shall adjourn after 90 minutes tonight and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 20 July 2011.

There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19 agreed to?

A guillotine is being imposed again. This was a habit of the previous Government. In the last week of the Dáil there was always a rush of legislation and guillotines were imposed. At that stage I argued continuously, along with the Whips who are now the Government Whips, that in most cases there was no need to impose a guillotine. Now we have a changed circumstance whereby the Government is in place and it has gone back on its previous habit of objecting to the guillotine. In fact, it is imposing more guillotines than the previous Government ever did.

In this case I am considering not dividing the Dáil on this matter so as not to waste or use up the time allocated. There will be less than one hour to deal with a substantial Bill that deals with changing the terms of reference of the Constituency Commission. It will also set a time limit for by-elections and reduce spending. Some of the changes to the electoral system in Ireland are worthwhile and I do not oppose many of the provisions within the Bill but other matters arise. A total of nine amendments are listed on the amendments paper which deals with a range of issues to do with our electoral system. We cannot have a proper debate on this in one hour. The guillotine should be lifted and, if needs be, we should sit again next week to allow for the passage of this legislation when all Deputies have contributed to the debate to their satisfaction and when we have teased out fully the implications of the Bill and the amendments pertaining to it.

There was five hours of debate on Second Stage of this Bill, Committee Stage has been dealt with and the Minister is anxious to get it through and have it finished before the House rises for the Summer recess. I take Deputy Ó Snodaigh's point about guillotines. I have objected to them in the past. We have had several occasions in recent weeks where insufficient speakers were supplied on the Opposition side. I am anxious that the Bill——

(Interruptions).

The Government did not put up the speakers.

Bills have fallen here because of a lack of Opposition speakers, despite the fact that they were looking for more time.

It was a lack of Government speakers.

(Interruptions).

The Minister is anxious to get this Bill through and have it dealt with. I did not see Deputy Ó Caoláin in Cavan last night but I mentioned his name in his absence.

I did not see the Taoiseach in Roscommon on Sunday.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ó Caoláin was well represented there and I mentioned his name in his absence.

I have no doubt the Taoiseach did so and I thank him very much for it.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 19 be agreed to," put and declared carried.

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.

It has been agreed that Thursday's European summit is likely to be crucial for the country, for Europe and for the economy as a whole. I understand the summit is due to last three hours, including lunch. There is a need for clear and comprehensive action from the summit. Given the importance of the summit for Ireland time should be made available in the House, as has been the practice, for statements on the matter tomorrow. Let us consider the legislative schedule. I suggest tomorrow's legislation is nowhere near as important as the issues on the summit agenda. I call on the Taoiseach to agree to make time available tomorrow for statements on the European summit.

I call Deputy McDonald. Is it on the same matter?

It is. I also have a second matter to raise.

We will deal with the first matter first.

To reiterate we share Deputy Martin's view and I hope the Taoiseach will respond in a positive way.

To repeat the call made, the situation is getting worse all the time. Given the gravity of the circumstances surrounding this Council meeting, the Taoiseach owes it to the Dáil and the public to give us some opportunity to discuss the matter this week, either before or after the summit.

The procedure for years was that there would be statements after Council meetings and that the Taoiseach of the day would report back. There have never been pre-Council statements before. There is an emergency meeting of eurozone leaders on Thursday; it is not a full Council meeting, although I recognise its importance. Tomorrow there will be debates on the victims directive, the Cloyne report, the Communications Regulation (Postal Services) Bill, the Defence (Amendment) Bill and statements on sea fisheries. I recognise the importance of this matter and while it is not a full Council meeting — it is a meeting of eurozone leaders — we might be able to find 40 or 50 minutes which would allow for ten-minute statements. I can advise the House later.

We will not have a chance after Thursday.

We will ask the Chief Whip whether we can accommodate a series of statements some time tomorrow.

Cad faoi Dé hAoine?

I call Deputy McDonald on the second issue.

The objective was to have the discussion after the summit, on Friday.

The decision of the Government not to introduce emergency legislation to protect the hundreds of thousands of low paid workers formerly covered by the JLCs is ample illustration of the utter disregard this Administration has for those on low incomes.

We are straying a little.

I want to ask the Taoiseach about the household charge he intends to introduce. I understand the proposals are to be brought before the Cabinet. As we adjourn for the summer break, will the Taoiseach tell the people, in particular those whose pay has been slashed and have been left in such vulnerable circumstances, when he proposes to introduce the household charge and precisely how much of a further burden he proposes to lay on already struggling families?

Is legislation needed in this matter?

Confusion always arises from speculation.

It is speculation arising from what the Minister said.

This is a requirement attaching to the IMF-EU loan repayment fund, from which we are drawing.

It is a sub-prime loan.

The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government has not yet brought the memorandum to the Government. I expect he will do so next week, probably, in which case the Government will make a decision on his proposal. That will bring certainty to the matter. This will not apply until next year.

What legislation is promised to facilitate the introduction of tolls on un-tolled roads, about which we learned over the course of the weekend? In addition, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has indicated that previous Governments built motorways that were not needed. Will the Government identify these roads?

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

I want to know if legislation is promised on the closure or mothballing of these roads.

The Deputy is playing games. He should get on with the business of the House.

The Taoiseach might enlighten us as to what his intentions are.

Is new tolls legislation needed?

Which roads are not up to standard?

The Deputy should not be play-acting.

I am responding to media reports.

Is legislation needed? No legislation is needed.

Therefore, there will be no change.

Is the Taoiseach aware of the non-adjacent grant rate for students? It will mean a cut of over €3,500——

The Deputy is playing tricks also. This has nothing to do with promised legislation.

I am not playing tricks.

The Deputy is and he knows it as well as I do. He is a Whip and knows it is not in accordance with Standing Orders.

It is because——

The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.

If you let me finish the sentence, I will ask about two pieces of legislation.

Not about that matter.

It means a cut of over €3,500 in the grant paid to many students. Has the Minister any intention of introducing a change to the Student Support Act passed earlier this year which this change might contravene?

That is not promised legislation.

If it is in contravention of the Act and the courts find that it is, a change to the legislation will have to be introduced. Second, will the Minister use the Education (Amendment) Bill promised for publication later this year to reverse this cut on top of the 4.5% cut in student grants?

The heads of the Bill went through this morning and the Minister for Education and Skills will report on the matter in due course.

I call Deputy McGrath — the Fianna Fáil McGrath.

I am glad you clarified that.

A Deputy

Do not worry, Mattie.

A number of finance Bills were listed for publication in the summer session, but they have not been published. I want to know whether they will be published this week or whether they have been delayed. They are the Public Service Pensions (Single Scheme) Bill and the Betting (Amendment) Bill.

The Public Service Pensions (Single Scheme) Bill is well advanced and expected to go before the Cabinet on 30 August.

What of the Betting (Amendment) Bill?

Last week the environment committee was told there were 7.2 million PPS numbers in the State. With a population of 4.6 million, that means there is a discrepancy of about 2.6 million PPS numbers. Does the Taoiseach have proposals, legislative or otherwise, to deal with this matter?

No legislation has been promised, but the Minister for Social Protection is obviously aware of the implications of the figures mentioned by the Deputy and is taking them into account.

The Government promised to introduce a system to allow questions to be tabled during Dáil recess periods. Will such a motion be brought before the House this week or is this another broken promise?

They would know all about broken promises over there.

No, that will not happen during the summer. There will be a number of changes to the Order Paper in respect of the conduct of Dáil business which will commence when the Dáil resumes in September. The question of written answers will form part of the second phase of reforms which the Chief Whip will introduce at a later time.

I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.

I appreciate that you have tried to differentiate between the three McGraths — Finian, Michael and mé féin. On promised legislation, I want to ask the Taoiseach and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation about a construction contracts Bill which is badly needed. Senator Feargal Quinn had a similar Bill put through the last Oireachtas. We are crying out for such a Bill and I hope it can be progressed, as many families and small business people are in dire need of legislation in this area.

It is an important but complex Bill. The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, is dealing with it and we hope to have it through early in the next session.

As we break for the summer, I am sure the Taoiseach is aware that for the 450,000 people or so who have no jobs, this will be a difficult summer. In terms of forthcoming legislation dealing with matters such as the strategic investment bank and the McCarthy report on State assets and, more generally, job creation, will the Taoiseach indicate that as soon as we return in the autumn there will be a major debate on job creation to bring forward positive proposals to get people back to work?

I call the Taoiseach to deal with promised legislation.

No such legislation has been promised. However, I assure Members I would be favourably disposed towards having a serious debate on job creation, in which the making of positive proposals would be the only criterion for Members opening their mouths.

Does that mean Members can have that in September?

On promised legislation and with particular reference to the protection of children, the Taoiseach correctly indicated last week the prioritisation of the national vetting bureau Bill. In view of recent revelations in the courts, would it be possible, from the legislation now proposed, to put in place regulations that would have the effect of giving adequate protection to children while awaiting the passage of that legislation?

Are regulations promised?

The Minister, Deputy Shatter, will bring the heads of that Bill to the Cabinet before the end of July. I will consider the Deputy's point in respect of the other measure.

I raise the same issue. Deputy Durkan is absolutely right and I am sure all Members share the sense of horror that is across the land that a convicted child sexual abuser was in continuing or re-engaged employment with the effect that children clearly were placed at risk. It is an absolutely outrageous example and sadly, I am sure it must not be the only one.

Thank you, Deputy.

The urgency pertains to the promised legislation. I acknowledge the Minister and the new Department are focused on doing this but specifics are needed. Members must know for certain exactly when the national vetting bureau Bill will be in place. However, there also is the children, establishment of child welfare and protection agency, Bill and the children first Bill, formerly the Ryan implementation Bill, as the Minister has indicated her intention to put the Children First guidelines on a statutory footing. Is there something that can be done now? While Members will debate the Cloyne report tomorrow with regard to church-related abuse of young children in a variety of settings, in this instance broader civic society continues to present dangers for young people——

We will just deal with the legislation.

—— and Members have a bounden responsibility to ensure all these areas are properly addressed and the legislation is in place to protect children with certainty.

The Taoiseach, on promised legislation.

The Minister for Justice and Equality is in Poland to attend a Council meeting today. I understand he has asked for a report on the horrific case in County Donegal to which the Deputy referred. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has published the children's rights issues that will be given priority, to be backed up by legislation coming from the Department of Justice and Equality. The Minister for Justice and Equality hopes to bring the heads of the vetting Bill to the Cabinet before the end of July.

I seek clarification from the Taoiseach on when the legislation for the three referendums it is intended to hold on the same day as the presidential election will come before the Dáil. As the Taoiseach is aware, although Members have been promised the legislation in this regard, this is the final week before the summer recess and there is no sign of it. Moreover, three months have elapsed since the Taoiseach promised this legislation to Members——

Thank you, Deputy. We will get an answer.

—— in the middle of February. No, this is a separate question. On 14 February, the Taoiseach promised to hold a Constitution day before the end of the year in which five referendums would be held. However, much like the five-point plan, not much has been heard of it since. When will Members have sight of the legislation pertaining to the three referendums the Government is planning to hold alongside the presidential election?

The Constitution day to which the Deputy referred was to be held within 12 months of the date of the formation of the Government. Three referendums are to be held in conjunction with the presidential election, one in respect of judicial pay, a second on whistleblowers and a third pertaining to the consequences of the Abbeylara judgment. I dealt with this matter with the Deputy's party leader earlier during Question Time. The Bill pertaining to the referendum on judicial pay is being processed by the Department of Justice and Equality, while work is advanced in respect of the other two in the office of the Attorney General. When these Bills have been drafted, the Government will consult the Opposition leaders and the legislation will be produced early in the new session to facilitate completion of the timeframes in order that the commissions can do their jobs and the question can be asked of the people in October.

When will the Constitution day take place?

As I stated, within 12 months of the formation of the Government.

The Deputy will be obliged to wait a little while for that.

I would say so. I refer to No. 3 on the Order Paper, the Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill, which has been tabled to protect the more than 200,000 workers who are vulnerable as a result of the High Court decision on the joint labour committees, JLCs. As significant vulnerability exists in this regard, I seek clarification on the Government's position on this Bill. Does the Government intend to refer it to committee or is it agreeable to the referral of the Bill to committee, in which it will be deliberated on further in the coming weeks? The Taoiseach stated earlier the Government would not oppose it and it accepted the principle.

This matter will be debated later.

Consequently, I seek clarity in the context of the workings of the House. If the Bill is not voted down tomorrow night, in other words, if it is voted through, may I take it the Bill will be referred to the relevant committee for further deliberations? Is that the position?

I already clarified this point for the Deputy. I accept the principle behind the Bill tabled by Deputy O'Dea. However, the advice available to the Government is that the Bill is not sufficiently comprehensive or robust to deal with the consequences of the judicial decision to determine the employment regulation orders, EROs, as being unconstitutional. While the principle is fine, the Bill is not strong enough. As a result, it will not be opposed on Second Stage as I accept the principle of what Deputy O'Dea is attempting to do. However, it does not go far enough and is neither broad enough nor comprehensive enough.

What happens then?

We are not having a debate.

This will provide an opportunity for debate. Government time will not be provided for the Committee Stage debate of that Bill because the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation will bring forward a comprehensive response to this quite complex issue early in the autumn session.

As for the principle enshrined in Deputy O'Dea's private Members' Bill, it does not go far enough and does not deal with the problem.

It would deal with it in the interim.

I already have pointed out that the 200,000 workers who are affected have protection under their existing contracts.

Many people will think the Taoiseach is engaged in a cynical effort to play himself off the Labour Party in government.

I call on Deputy Tóibín.

I could shoot it down altogether but I did not do that.

This move tonight was absolutely cynical.

The Bill would not work.

The Bill is fundamentally flawed. I will explain to Deputy Martin later.

They are great people. They have no Bill at all.

It is flawed.

The Labour Party has gone very quiet over there.

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