Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Sep 2011

Vol. 741 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

Nuclear Disarmament Initiative

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

As the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, will be aware, yesterday, 21 September, was the international day of peace, a day that has been recognised by the UN for the past 29 years. It was also the first day of the opening of the 66th session of the United Nations General Assembly, where leaders from around the world have come together to discuss their plans for progressing peace and human security for the coming year.

Our first endeavours in the United Nations in the 1950s were always in pursuit of peace, be it in sending peacekeepers around the world, as we have done for many decades and continue to do, or in the control of nuclear weapons and nuclear disarmament generally. Indeed, the first Minister sent to the United Nations in the 1950s, Mr. Frank Aiken, pursued a treaty on the non-dissemination of nuclear nations. In 1961, the Irish resolution adopted by the UN took a hold of that vision and in 1965 was converted into the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, NPT. We have continued to work in the pursuit of arms control and disarmament since then and, most recently, at the review conference for the NPT in 2010, we were very successful in achieving some significant progress in nuclear weapons zone in the Middle East and will continue to work towards those endeavours. We have also worked very successfully in trying to abolish landmines and cluster munitions. In 2008, a declaration was signed in Dublin that brought into effect the Convention on Cluster Munitions.

Peace day is about more than one day, however. We must continue with these efforts on a constant basis until we have achieved a world that is free from the threat of nuclear weapons and other such threats. Tomorrow in New York, on the margins of the General Assembly, there will be a conference on facilitating the entry into force of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, also known as the Article 14 conference. This is a treaty that was opened for signature 15 years ago, in 1996, yet it still has not come into force. It is the next most important step in achieving a world free of nuclear weapons and the next most important piece of architecture in the nuclear non-proliferation regime, yet it is still not in force.

There are nine countries involved but it is two states that have held out from signing and ratifying the treaty. It is imperative that Ireland, given its position and its history of involvement in this area, pursues that goal, particularly the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty, and that it gives dedicated effort to achieving finally the entry into force of that treaty sooner rather than later. This was the last major WMD arms control treaty to be negotiated by the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, a conference which has been in stalemate for the past 12 years, which is a disgrace. We must also make efforts in this regard.

The Tánaiste is at the UN General Assembly at present. I wish him well in his endeavours and in the negotiations and bilateral meetings he will hold.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Lucinda Creighton)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. His timing is excellent. Disarmament and non-proliferation is a priority and the Government is committed to seeking further progress in this area in the coming year. As the Deputy pointed out, Ireland's engagement on this agenda goes back to the 1950s and then Minister, Mr. Frank Aiken. Nuclear non-proliferation and implementation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty have been priorities of Irish Governments for more than 50 years and we have a proud record of engagement and achievement in this very important field.

The NPT, the primary international mechanism for controlling the spread of nuclear weapons, is reviewed every five years. The 2010 review conference adopted forward-looking action plans across all three pillars of the treaty — disarmament, non-proliferation and peaceful uses of nuclear energy — and on the establishment of a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. Full implementation of these plans would considerably reinforce the non-proliferation regime. The first preparatory committee in the 2015 review cycle will take place in Vienna in May 2012, and this will offer an important opportunity to assess progress. Ireland played a crucial role in the 2010 negotiations and it is our intention that we will maintain our active role in the upcoming review cycle.

A number of practical steps were agreed in 2010 on implementation of the 1995 Middle East resolution, including the convening of a conference in 2012 on the establishment of a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and all other weapons of mass destruction. Ireland brokered this important agreement. While progress on its implementation has been disappointing to date, I hope the 2012 conference will take place and Ireland will do all it can to make it a success.

An important objective for the coming year here will be to negotiate a strong and robust arms trade treaty at a diplomatic conference in New York. This must address the challenges posed by unregulated trade in conventional arms and their diversion to the illicit market, and it must prevent these weapons from threatening security and development or violating human rights and international humanitarian law. Ireland has been active in preparatory work for an arms trade treaty, and this continues to be a priority issue. There will also be a review in 2012 of the UN programme of action to prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons which cause death and injury to hundreds of thousands of people every year, and Ireland will work to strengthen the programme of action.

The Government remains firmly committed to the elimination of all cluster munitions, which cause unacceptable harm to civilians, and implementation and universalisation of the Convention on Cluster Munitions, CCM, adopted in Dublin in 2008, is a key objective. At the second meeting of states parties in Beirut earlier this month, Ireland was appointed co-ordinator on clearance for 2012-13. It is the Government's intention to work hard in the year ahead to make significant progress in supporting implementation of the CCM on this key provision on clearance and destruction of cluster munition remnants, an area in which Ireland has considerable expertise. We also hope that it will be possible to conclude a CCW protocol in Geneva this year, compatible with and complementary to the CCM, which will extend further the protection of civilians from unacceptable harm caused by cluster munitions.

A critical concern remains the dysfunctional UN disarmament machinery, particularly the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva, which, as the Deputy noted, has failed to do substantive work for more than a decade. An important priority is revitalisation of the machinery to make it more responsive to 21st century challenges.

I assure the Deputy and the House of the Government's commitment to work to the full to achieve progress on the disarmament and non-proliferation agenda in the year ahead.

Deputy Eoghan Murphy

I thank the Minister of State. It is very encouraging to hear that the Government is preparing for the 2015 review conference on the NPT. It is particularly encouraging that the Middle East review will be going ahead in 2012, and I wish everyone the very best in that regard because it is very important to what we are trying to achieve in that region as well as in the wider world in regard to nuclear weapons disarmament.

With regard to the measures being pursued at present in regard conventional weapons, it is very commendable that we have a commitment in this area, both through the UN system and also through the NGO system. I wish the Government the very best on both those tracks.

The Tánaiste will become chairman of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe next year. I am the head of the Oireachtas delegation to the parliamentary assembly for the OSCE and I offer him and his Department all my support in everything he hopes to achieve next year. The delegation will be interested in meeting the Minister to hear more about his plans while chairman of that organisation and I look forward to hearing from him in that regard.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton

I will be brief. I again thank the Deputy for drawing Members' attention to this issue. The Government's preparations for taking over the chairmanship of the OSCE are at an advanced stage. In the course of the autumn, I will undertake a considerable amount of bilateral work in which I will be wearing two hats, one obviously in respect of EU bilateral relations and the other pertaining to preparations for the OSCE and meeting other interested parties across the European Union and beyond.

I am proud of Ireland's record in the area of disarmament. We are rightly perceived internationally as having credibility and as having given strong leadership and unwavering commitment to achieving a nuclear weapons-free world. We have contributed to significant and not insubstantial achievements in freeing the world of landmines and cluster munitions. I assure Members the Government is committed to working to continue to make a difference in respect of both nuclear and conventional disarmament and in strengthening the non-proliferation regime. Implementation of the final document of the 2010 review conference and of the Convention on Cluster Munitions adopted in Croke Park three years ago are priorities, as is the negotiation of a robust arms trade treaty during next year's negotiations in New York. I note that while treaties are in place in a number of areas, what is needed in many cases is action to fulfil existing commitments, rather than new initiatives. As I indicated previously, making the dysfunctional disarmament machinery work is fundamental for the future. Progress in recent years has been facilitated by an improved international environment and renewed political will on the part of a number of states in possession of large arsenals of inhumane weaponry. It is to be hoped this will be maintained and translated into concrete steps and action, particularly in the forthcoming non-proliferation treaty review cycle. The ultimate goal of course is a nuclear weapons-free world and the Government will do all it can in the coming year to bring us closer to that day.

Job Protection

Deputy Brendan Smith

Aviva Insurance employs 2,000 people across the State and has enjoyed a profitable year to date according to its mid-year results. It announced significant changes in its operations last May, which should have been a clear indicator of possible job losses but the Government still has not taken any action and has stated it will wait until the company completes its review.

Aviva Insurance is a British company that employs 1,200 people in Dublin, 200 in Cork, 200 in Galway and additional staff in various branches throughout the country totalling 2,000 staff. Ireland is the only European country in which Aviva has life insurance, general insurance and health insurance operations. Aviva posted positive half-year results in August 2011 and overall, the company reported a 5% increase in its operating profit, up to €1.5 billion, and an increase of 21% in its operating profits in Europe to more than €600 million.

In the first six months of the year, general insurance and health premiums increased by 5% at the insurer, due to strong sales of its health insurance products, as it is benefitting from consumers exiting from the VHI. On the investment side, it reported life and pensions sales in Ireland increased by 16%, "following continued opportunistic sales of single premium investment bonds". Given these results, there must be scope for Aviva to retain its employment numbers. It is important that the Government and the IDA exploit all opportunities these positive figures present to retain jobs.

The company announced in May it is moving its European headquarters from Dublin to London, having established it in the former in only 2009. More relevant to possible job losses, it announced it was restructuring its business. The fact the company announced last May it was undertaking significant changes should have alerted the Government to possible future job losses. Did the Government or its agencies take any steps at that early stage? According to an internal Aviva review seen by RTE's "Prime Time" programme, between 300 and 500 jobs are under review as the company considers moving part of its general insurance operation to Britain.

The company has refused to confirm or deny possible job losses and has stated such talk is premature. I understand this was the response received by the Unite trade union in its recent discussions with the company's management. The Taoiseach, Deputy Kenny, stated media reports about job losses were causing "great anxiety and concern for those who work in Aviva" Moreover, in the Dáil yesterday, he declared "It is only right and proper that I do not comment on this until such time as the company arrives at its conclusions, having carried out its analysis." The IDA has been in contact with Aviva but according to the Taoiseach, it cannot make any judgment on the latter's future until the internal review by the company is carried out. It must be the Government's role to be proactive on these issues. As the company is currently in the process of reviewing its options, this is the precise stage at which the Government can have a positive input, rather than leaving it until the company has made decisions.

Finally, all Members are conscious of the concerns of the workers and the families regarding their future job prospects.

Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Sean Sherlock)

I thank Deputy Smith for raising this matter. My primary concern is with the workers facing uncertainty today. Taking account of the domestic economy, Aviva has decided to review its operations to ensure its capacity is in line with domestic demand to ensure sustainability. Industry figures show that general insurance has fallen by more than 20% in the past two years, while life insurance and pensions have fallen by more than 30%, due to concerns over long-term savings and people cancelling or reducing pension policies. Aviva has stated it is committed fully to Ireland and is currently in discussions with unions representing staff about the review. Until this review has been completed, it would be premature to speculate about the outcome. To be fair, it is pertinent that the Government allows the unions to engage with Aviva to see where that process might go.

As for the role of the IDA, the Deputy has greater knowledge than me in this regard and is well aware that it supports multinational companies predominantly trading outside Ireland or internationally. As part of its business in working to attract international activities into Ireland from multinational companies, the IDA has been in contact with Aviva at both corporate and local levels. The Minister has asked the IDA, given its knowledge of the company, to continue to work with it to mitigate any possible negative outcomes. Consequently, the IDA has been active in this regard.

Ireland has succeeded in building an international financial services industry that is diverse in the activities carried out and which enjoys a world-leading reputation in several sectors. While the past three years have represented a severe stress test for all the financial centres, firms at the International Financial Services Centre have shown resilience and flexibility. Employing 33,000 people directly and many more indirectly, the IFSC remains both critical as an employer and as a centre of economic activity. The goal of ensuring that jobs and economic activity are protected is a mainstay for the Government and I ask that Members allow further review to take place and for the discussions to conclude with the unions representing the staff. The Government undoubtedly will engage at a later point.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Joanna Tuffy)

Will a copy of the Minister of State's contribution be furnished to Members in due course? It does not appear to have been supplied.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Yes, certainly.

Deputy Brendan Smith

It will be fine if it is circulated later to Members.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, for his response. He made some comments recently with regard to the industrial development agencies in general and the IDA in particular and I share the views he expressed. I note his statement today referred to the success of the financial services industry and the inward investment in recent years. Moreover, in many of his statements on the investment in research and development that now is paying dividends, he quite rightly lauds the policies that have been developed and implemented over the past decade.

None of us is suggesting we come into conflict with the union's position, proposals or discussion with the company.

It is much better that a Government representative, such as the Minister, Deputy Bruton, or the Minister of State conveys to the company the concerns of the workers and community. We want to maintain and increase the number of jobs in the country if possible. Based on the figures I quoted, Aviva is a very profitable company and is doing extremely well.

I hope the Government will not be responding to a negative announcement from the company. It is essential that members of the Government at ministerial level take an active approach to convey to the company our anxiety that it retains its staffing complement in the country at a difficult time for employment. The Government can, in its deliberations with the company, deal with any concerns it might have and provide an analysis of the economy.

Sending a development agency to deal with the company on its own when there is a major threat to jobs is not adequate. I am sure the Minister of State agrees the Government has to take a hands on approach to this issue when people's jobs and livelihoods are at stake. We all sincerely hope jobs and livelihoods are not at stake and want to ensure we take every opportunity to send a clear message to the company that we want it to retain its staffing complement on our island.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

I acknowledge the Deputy's statement. There is no sense of complacency on the part of the Government on this issue. We must have regard to the fact the Cabinet has asked the IDA, given its knowledge of the company, to continue to work with it to mitigate any possible negative outcomes.

Let us be frank. I can dance around the language of redundancies and job losses but if a multinational company that transcends many boundaries has decided the course of action it will take, it is difficult for Governments to influence decisions. Nobody wants job losses but sometimes decisions are made in other centres, financial powerhouses and capital cities other than Dublin.

The key point is for us to engage with the company and try to move it from its current trajectory in terms of job losses. We will do everything we can in that respect. If the company makes a decision God or man will not shift it. We should be honest and frank about the discourse. We must try to ensure the same situation as TalkTalk does not arise and there is an early warning system that ensures we can engage with a company to try to stem the flow of job losses and learn valuable lessons to ensure the policy is tapered to have the right mix of companies.

I will engage further with the Minister, Deputy Bruton. The Deputy's comments are on the record of the House and I will relate them to the Minister and the IDA.

Housing Policy

Deputy Joe Costello

I am delighted to welcome the Minister of State. The new approach to dealing with topical issues is excellent. It is my first time speaking on it.

Deputy Seán Crowe

If the Deputy gets an answer.

Deputy Joe Costello

If we do not get the right answer we will pursue it. At least we have an opportunity to do so. In the previous system we could not pursue anything, there was a set reply and that was the end of it.

How we deal with housing and distressed mortgages, in particular the family home, is a major burning issue of the day. The family home is sacrosanct and a fundamental principle should inform all our deliberations, namely, that no family should ever have the roof over its head taken from it because of an inability to meet its payments. As long as a family is making a serious effort to deal with the situation — circumstances have arisen such as mortgages, employment and other things — it should not lose the roof over its head.

There is a very strong declaration of intent from the Government in its programme for national recovery. A policy of putting the interests of big developers and the banks ahead of people looking to purchase a home was a direct cause of Ireland's disastrous property boom and bust, something I am sure the Minister of State knows. The Government is committed to helping homeowners in distress to weather the recession and ensure Ireland has a sustainable housing policy. Both parties believe more protection is needed for homeowners with distressed mortgages. The recommendations of the Cooney report are inadequate to address the scale of the current crisis and a more radical approach is needed to protect families in fear of losing their homes.

We all agree it is the intention of the Government to address those issues. We need to determine how to put it into practical operation. A two-year moratorium has been introduced, mortgage interest supplement is available and there is the flexibility of interest only repayments. We now need to have more radical reforms because the number of people having difficulty with their mortgage repayments is increasing by the day.

I am dealing with two deadlines on 1 October. A self employed consultant became unemployed and was entitled to nothing. He has three young daughters in secondary school. He was not entitled to jobseeker's allowance, mortgage interest supplement or the advice of a community welfare officer. No aspect of the current system is of any value to him.

After much toing and froing he eventually managed to sort out his jobseeker's allowance but has been adamantly refused any mortgage interest supplement because his wife is working. She is on a low wage but it has prevented him from accessing it. The repayments for a home that was bought during the boom are substantial and he is simply not able to meet them. He is facing repossession on 1 October and the matter has been put into the hands of a debt collection agency which is insisting on it.

The second case involves a 73 year old woman who ten years ago signed over her house to her son when he started a garage business on the understanding, but without the legal provision, that she would be there for the rest of her life. The bank is now owed more than the value of the house, repossession has been sought and the court has determined that she has to be out by 1 October.

She has been told by the debt collection agency to go to the local authority who will deal with the issue, but it has told her it cannot do anything until the house is handed over, in other words until she has been evicted from her home. Is it satisfactory that the roof is taken from over the head of the poor senior citizen concerned simply because the market operates in an unreal and artificial fashion?

There are many such cases. I look forward to the response of the Minister of State.

Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (Deputy Brian Hayes)

I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. He assured me that this is his first time to speak on Topical Issue Matters and it is also my first time. I hope it proves to be a more useful engagement on the issues.

The issue to which he referred, on which there is common cause among all Members, is that no family home should be lost because of inability to pay a mortgage. The programme for Government proposes to introduce "a two year moratorium on repossessions of modest family homes where a family makes an honest effort to pay their mortgage". Of course there will always be circumstances in which it may be in an individual's interest because of burdening debt to get a fresh start. However, in the great majority of cases, including the two examples the Deputy put on the record, we must use as an instrument of public policy a clear desire and determination to ensure people can stay in their homes and work through their financial difficulties.

As the Deputy is aware we now have in place the recommendations of the Cooney report, which came to a conclusion last year. The biggest new issue from that is the proposed introduction of a deferred interest payment whereby if people can pay two thirds of the interest on the mortgage, one third can be set aside. Given that it has taken eight months for this system to be introduced, we must ask whether the banks are operating this. Are people seeking it or even aware of it? When people get into the kinds of difficulties the Deputy mentioned, the first objective must be to get to some manageable payment, regardless of how small, for a period of time to see if the person can work through his or her difficulties. The Minister for Finance has been clear in his direction to the banks and lending agencies to ensure that option is available to people.

The Government's economic council, comprising the Taoiseach, Tánaiste, Minister for Finance and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, has asked for a report on this issue by the end of the month to analyse what further action can be taken. The Deputy rightly referred to the mortgage interest relief component, rent supports and now the new deferred interest proposal, but not enough is being done. Many banks are now restructuring debts, but the question is whether they are doing so in a realistic manner. The most recent information worryingly indicates that even on those mortgages that had been restructured, a significant proportion got into difficulty again, which begs the question as to whether banks are being realistic about what people can afford to pay.

The Government is acutely aware of the issue. The economic council, a very important sub-committee of Cabinet, has asked for this report by the end of the month. Following that report, which I presume will be published, we will then consider what additional measures can be taken by the Department of Social Protection, the Department of Finance, other Departments, the Central Bank and others to ensure we manage the issue and achieve the objective of ensuring that people do not lose their homes.

The level of repossessions in this country by comparison with the UK and other countries is still relatively low. I believe my prepared script points out that figures from the Central Bank show that by the end of June this year, 54 residential properties here had been repossessed. In the same period there were 119 voluntary surrenders. Those figures are relatively small in the context of the numbers with which we are dealing. The bigger issue is the insurmountable debt people have and in time the Government will introduce additional measures to address that and make it manageable.

Deputy Joe Costello

I thank the Minister of State for that reply and his prepared script also seems comprehensive — I look forward to having some bedside reading from it.

Deputy Brian Hayes

I hope the oral reply is better than the written reply. I think it probably is.

Deputy Joe Costello

The quantity is there — I will check the quality. Certainly the oral reply was excellent. However, I have not received an answer to the question I posed. The Government should abide by the fundamental principle that no family should lose the roof over their heads. We then need a mechanism to prevent that happening where there is an honest effort being made by the household members, who may no longer include a breadwinner because of the circumstances that have arisen, to do what they can to sort it out. A safety net needs to be put in place to continue the process rather than simply taking court action that seeks repossession and the involvement of a debt collection agency which has no care in the world other than to extract what it can, including repossession if the debt cannot be dealt with.

There is the commitment to the personal debt management agency which would have quasi-judicial powers. A safety net needs to be introduced as quickly as possible to assist people such as the 54 people who have had repossessions and the 119 who surrendered possession voluntarily. We do not know what happened in other cases where people move lock, stock and barrel to Australia or elsewhere and leave everything behind. However, we must provide the support for the thousands of people who are in serious debt arrears. The existing supports are very welcome — we need to look at how the bank restructuring has taken place there, but at present we do not have a bottom line, which I would like the Minister of State to address.

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Deputy's point is well made. What is the principle? The principle is that people can stay in their homes and some form of debt resettlement is put in place. However, it is not realistic to suggest that would happen in every circumstance — I am not suggesting that is what the Deputy is proposing. On some occasions because of the level of indebtedness it is not in the interest of the person for that principle to be extended wholesale.

The Deputy has referred to the very sensible suggestion of a personal debt management agency which is, as he knows, contained in the programme for Government. This would operate as a halfway house between the banks and the people to come to a fair assessment as to whether the banks have reached a settlement. There is considerable merit in what he is saying. I know this is an issue the expert group is reviewing and will come to a view with Government in due course.

There is a fundamental point as follows. At the moment, if I am dealing with a bank that comes to a view as to the level of indebtedness and how much I can afford to pay, even if I disagree with its assessment, where do I go to appeal it? I appeal it to an appeal board within the bank — it is an internal decision of the bank as the Deputy will be aware. We need a beefed up agency like the Credit Review Office for small business, which comes to an independent assessment given all the information. That has the advantage, first, that the banks are given a clear steer and, second, if it ever gets to court there is an independent assessment of the facts and figures presented to that agency. That would make considerable sense. I am not second-guessing the outcome of the expert group that is due to report shortly.

Deputy Joe Costello

Will that be at the end of this month?

Deputy Brian Hayes

I understand the economic council expects to receive the report by the end of the month. It will then be a matter for Cabinet to make a policy decision on it. The proposal the Deputy has made, which is in the programme for Government, is under active consideration at the moment. The Government is minded to pursue this suggestion once the Cabinet has had a chance to review the expert group's report.

Hospital Services

Deputy Joan Collins

Before making a few points about the future of the Rowan ward at Cherry Orchard Hospital in Ballyfermot, as the Minister of State is probably aware, according to the Health Protection Surveillance Centre website there are approximately 7,000 reported cases of HIV in Ireland, including 331 new HIV diagnoses in 2010, comprising 240 males and 89 females. There were 134 new HIV diagnoses among the category of men who have sex with men. There were 123 new cases among the heterosexual category, 54 male and 69 female, in 2010. One of the saddest findings is that 136 babies were born with HIV in Ireland last year.

I give that information to set the context because many people might not know that the 18-bed Rowan Ward in Cherry Orchard Hospital in Ballyfermot is the only public HIV unit in the country, to the best of our knowledge. People travel from Cork, Galway, Donegal and elsewhere if they need to access treatment in that hospital. That in itself is wrong. We should not have only one public HIV respite unit in the country. We have begun to hear rumblings from the HSE — through the usual manner in which it gets word out that it is about to close a ward or that there are problems — that this ward could be closed.

This ward is a safety net for the thousands of people with HIV who need to come into the unit to get reassessed if they become ill, or to be properly fed and get proper rest. It is a very important ward. Many of the people to whom we talked believe the ward is a lifeline for them. If they did not have access to this ward, they would be in serious trouble. Many people who access the ward are homeless and need the services in Cherry Orchard Hospital. St. James's Hospital treats patients going through the chaotic and chronic stages of HIV but the ward in Cherry Orchard Hospital provides respite care and serves people who need to cope with readjustment and require support. It is a very sensible service. If it were not available, the patients who attend it would have to go directly to the main hospitals which, as we know, are already operating under huge pressure. The service provided in this ward is both socially and economically necessary. The nursing staff are brilliant; all the patients have great praise for the senior nursing staff. They do more than just run the ward well; they give of their own time.

Rumours abound that this ward will be closed. It is always impossible to get a straight answer from the HSE. The head of the HSE in the Dublin West constituency will not confirm or deny the rumours, yet on Monday, 12 September, the word was out that the staff were instructed not to allow any more admissions into the ward. That in itself amounts to nearly the closure of the ward and is an alarming development for those who want to access this service.

There are three men who have been in the ward for up to 14 years; the ward is their home at this stage. They are fearful of what will happen to them. When asked where they would go, they were told they would be probably moved into one of the elderly units that cater for elderly people with Alzheimer's disease and other conditions. This is not acceptable. What we want to hear today is a categorical announcement from the Minister of State that this ward will remain open. If there are problems with the ward because of its age, we want to hear that it will not be closed until an alternative, fit for purpose, accommodation for HIV patients is found for these patients.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Róisín Shortall)

I thank Deputies Collins, Daly and Boyd Barrett for raising this issue.

I will read from some of the text that has been circulated. The Government's response to HIV and AIDS is led by the National AIDS Strategy Committee, NASC, which is an advisory group to the Minister and was set up in 1991 to address the emerging AIDS crisis. Membership of the committee includes officials from the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive, representatives of NGOs and other Government Departments. In addition to HIV, the committee has also taken on an advisory role with regard to sexually transmitted infections, STIs. The NASC published its first report in 1992, and followed up in 2000 with the production of the AIDS Strategy 2000 document, which is still the policy from which Ireland operates in relation to HIV and AIDS.

Last year there were 331 new HIV diagnoses which represents a 16% decrease compared to 2009 when 395 new cases were diagnosed. Recent figures published by the Health Protection Surveillance Centre show that the category of men who have sex with men is now the predominant mode of transmission in Ireland. While this overall decrease in new HIV cases is very welcome we must continue to focus on effective preventative measures to address this trend. Government policy is that appropriate treatment is made available free of charge to all who test positive for HIV at the various statutory centres that provide HIV and STI services throughout the country.

In regard to the Rowan Ward, it was established in 1990 in response to a number of clients who suffered from AIDS and AIDS-related disorders. Since that time there have been very considerable advances in the treatment of HIV and AIDS. The Rowan Ward has in recent years evolved into a facility providing social respite care to what is now, thankfully, a static group of people living with HIV. Of the 18 beds available, three people living with HIV have become long-stay residents of the unit. This facility is based on the campus of Cherry Orchard Hospital, which primarily provides long-term care to the local elderly population.

I advise the Deputy that in the short time available to me to look into this matter, I was told that the HSE is currently reviewing all services on the Cherry Orchard campus in the context of the current economic pressures and the existing moratorium on recruitment of additional nursing staff. The review will explore if services currently being provided by the Rowan unit could be provided more effectively in a different setting, taking into account the needs of the people currently using this social respite service. No decision will be made on the Rowan Ward until the review is completed. However, whatever decision is taken, the residents of the Rowan Ward will continue to receive appropriate quality care.

I thank the Deputies for bringing this matter to my attention. I was not aware that this was on the cards. I have had some difficulty in getting a definitive answer from the HSE in the past hour or so that I have been in a position to pursue the matter.

While this is a service matter for the HSE, I am very dissatisfied with the extent and the quality of the information that has been available to me. I had hoped to be in a position to provide more detailed information and to share it with the Deputies this afternoon. Unfortunately, that information was not forthcoming. My intention now is to establish the facts surrounding what is a rumour about the future of this unit. I want to know whether the unit is to remain in use and, if so, the plans for it. In the event that any question arises about the closing of this unit on the basis that it is not suitable for one reason or another or cannot remain in existence, I want clear information about suitable and appropriate alternative accommodation for the long-stay residents who are there at the moment and an assurance that there will be a facility which will be able to cater for any future demand in this regard.

In regard to the issue of respite care, if a decision is taken on the basis of the review that I am told is under way, replacement beds will have to be made available for those people in the unit who predominantly are people who have difficulties in regard to homelessness and addiction, who are being catered for at present, which provides respite for themselves and for their families. I will seek an assurance that suitable alternative accommodation will be made available.

I regret that I am not in a position to provide more detailed information to the Deputies and I thank them for bringing this matter to my attention.

Deputy Joan Collins

I thank the Minister for her reply. Obviously, she is experiencing the same difficulties as everybody else with the HSE in trying to find out exactly what is the position in regard to this ward. I am pleased that she expressed concern about the need for this ward, the respite care that is required and the need to provide for the three long-stay patients in the ward. I ask her to contact us as soon as she hears from the HSE in regard to the matter. We do not want any changes to be made until a suitable alternative ward is made available, appropriate systems are in place and there is access for HIV-AIDS patients to respite care. I believe the Minister would agree that this is a very important service for these people who, in the most chaotic moments of their lives, need somewhere to go. This ward has been a mainstay for these people in the past. I welcome the Minister's response. I hope she will follow through on it and that the ward will not be closed unless an alternative is provided.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I assure the Deputies that I am looking for a full report on this from the HSE. I want to establish the facts and precisely what the plans are for this facility. I wanted to try to get a categorical statement from the HSE on the plans as soon as possible. As soon as I have that information, I will share it with the Deputies and write to each of the three of them directly to provide it. I am also anxious that any decisions will be taken in consultation with the national AIDS strategy group because that is where the expertise lies and the plans encompass the community working in the area of AIDS. I will be looking for this consultation to take place and will be in touch with the Deputies as soon as I possibly can.