It is proposed to take No. 1, Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill 2011 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed); and No.5, statements on the recent developments in the eurozone. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 15 shall be taken at 6 p.m. and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7.30 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: statements shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, and who may share their time, and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case and a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 30 minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 28 — motion re closure of Army barracks (resumed) — to conclude at 9 p.m. if not previously concluded.
Order of Business
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15 agreed to? Does Deputy Boyd Barrett wish to make his case on behalf of the People before Profit party?
I do. The eurozone economy is plunging yet further into crisis. The more certain countries impose their stupid policies of austerity and bank bailouts the worse it gets. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, lives in a land of delusion and thinks the Irish economy can thrive when the rest of the European economy is going down the toilet. Faced with this unprecedented crisis all we get is an hour and a half to discuss the situation. We need much more time for a full and proper debate on this most serious crisis which will effectively determine the future of our economy and society for years to come. We should be given a little more time for a proper debate on this matter than the Taoiseach has allowed.
Does Deputy Martin disagree with this motion?
Yes. I raised the matter yesterday and last week. Without question, the euro crisis is the most grave crisis facing not only this country but the European Union and the European monetary system. It is extraordinary that in this House we are giving so little time to proper debate and questions in regard to the most fundamental issues now facing the euro currency. I find it extraordinary that over the past month we have had precious little time for this, even in terms of debating the outcome of the July summit. It would have been normal for the Taoiseach to have reported on it to the House at this stage. The forthcoming October summit will clearly be the key summit in terms of the Greek crisis, the Italian downgrade and international questions raised about the eurozone itself.
Yesterday I asked if the Taoiseach would be taking questions on this subject today. I may have picked it up wrong but I understood he said he would participate in the debate. However, I note from the Order of Business that questions will be taken by the Minister. I realise the Taoiseach has taken a very hands-off approach to the entire issue, given his failure to meet eurozone leaders and so on. The Taoiseach should take questions today at the end of the debate. I ask him to do so, given the gravity of what is before us. It is the leaders of Europe who will have to deal with this in the forthcoming summit in a comprehensive and resolute way, something they have not done to date. There has been a fundamental failure of vision and leadership at the top of the European Union. There is an obligation on the Taoiseach to come before the House, answer questions and give the Government's approach to the forthcoming summit and to the current euro crisis.
I have a slightly sharper point to make. It is the mark of this Government not to have a full debate. We raised this issue of a debate on the euro crisis at least twice, perhaps three times, before the Taoiseach conceded it should be allowed. Given the news that came overnight about Italian bonds, does the Government's original budget target of €3.6 billion to be taken out of the economy in December still stand?
At this stage we are only debating the time available.
I assure Deputy Martin that I am here. He had first choice in today's Leaders' Questions to ask me a question about the eurozone if he had so wished.
There is to be a debate.
He chose not to do that. He made a suggestion about answering questions. He had the first choice today——
This is just playing games.
——to ask a question about the eurozone crisis if he thought it was important. The second point ——
Allow the Taoiseach reply, please.
The Deputy's colleagues had an argument last week about wanting a debate on the eurozone crisis. They are getting that today. Now, judging by what the Deputy said, he wants me to take the full debate and answer the questions. I want him to understand this. Before the Heads of Government meet later this month the House will debate this matter, and again afterwards, so the Deputy's party can have its full say and give its views. We have had to renegotiate the deal that party made.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Is the Taoiseach saying he cannot have time?
Is he taking responsibility for the memorandum?
I do not find it in any way extraordinary, because we changed the rules. We will have debates both before and after European Council meetings take place. We did not have one after the July meeting. I concede that is the case but we are having the debate today.
In answer to Deputy Adams's question, the Minister for Finance has made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that in order to get to the 8.6% deficit we may have to have an extraction from the economy of between €3.6 billion and €4 billion. We do not yet know what the figure is because all the information relevant to making that decision is not yet available. However, these are matters the Deputy can raise. I look forward to hearing his contribution on how the Sinn Féin party proposes to deal with the situation in which the country finds itself and to hearing its suggestions for getting ahead of the curve of the markets in the European context. It will be very interesting to hear what Sinn Féin has to say. I note the party, which is an all-island one, is party in the North to serious cuts.
A Deputy
That is right.
——in education and health.
Austerity stakes.
A Deputy
Strikes. All out.
Resistance.
It seems that down here the impact of the Cooley Mountains means that Deputy Adams objects to everything that has to be rearranged or changed.
Deputy Boyd Barrett spoke about confidence, and all the rest of it. The live register figures for September 2011, to be published at 11 a.m., show 437,441, or 32,272 fewer than the August 2011 total.
That is wrong.
A Deputy
They got jobs in London.
It is 4,976, and 1% lower than the September 2010 figure.
They are in New Zealand, Canada and Australia.
It is the first year on year fall in the live register since April 2007.
Surely the Taoiseach is not claiming credit for that.
I admit that there are many young people whom I do not want to see leaving the country. However, this is genuinely good news for Ireland. It is replicated——
Some six hours will be devoted to the Second Stage debate on the Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill 2011 this week and the Taoiseach is only allocating 90 minutes for the debate on the crisis in Europe.
The Deputy knows a great deal about matters relating to road traffic on foot of the number of protests, etc., he organises.
The Taoiseach will be seeing a few more of those in the coming months.
The Taoiseach should come to Mullingar at the weekend.
I remind Deputies that we cannot enter into a debate on this matter, which merely relates to the allocation of time. In that context, I must put the question.
Tá
- Barry, Tom.
- Breen, Pat.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burton, Joan.
- Butler, Ray.
- Buttimer, Jerry.
- Byrne, Catherine.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Joe.
- Coffey, Paudie.
- Collins, Áine.
- Conaghan, Michael.
- Connaughton, Paul J.
- Conway, Ciara.
- Coonan, Noel.
- Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
- Costello, Joe.
- Creed, Michael.
- Daly, Jim.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Deering, Pat.
- Doherty, Regina.
- Donohoe, Paschal.
- Dowds, Robert.
- Doyle, Andrew.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Farrell, Alan.
- Feighan, Frank.
- Ferris, Anne.
- Fitzpatrick, Peter.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Hannigan, Dominic.
- Harrington, Noel.
- Harris, Simon.
- Hayes, Brian.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Heydon, Martin.
- Hogan, Phil.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Humphreys, Kevin.
- Keating, Derek.
- Keaveney, Colm.
- Kelly, Alan.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Kyne, Seán.
- Lawlor, Anthony.
- Lynch, Ciarán.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- Lyons, John.
- McCarthy, Michael.
- McFadden, Nicky.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McHugh, Joe.
- McLoughlin, Tony.
- Maloney, Eamonn.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Mitchell O’Connor, Mary.
- Mulherin, Michelle.
- Murphy, Dara.
- Murphy, Eoghan.
- Nash, Gerald.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Neville, Dan.
- Nolan, Derek.
- Noonan, Michael.
- Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
- O’Donnell, Kieran.
- O’Donovan, Patrick.
- O’Dowd, Fergus.
- O’Sullivan, Jan.
- Phelan, Ann.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Reilly, James.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Brendan.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sherlock, Sean.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Spring, Arthur.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Tuffy, Joanna.
- Twomey, Liam.
- Varadkar, Leo.
- Wall, Jack.
- Walsh, Brian.
- White, Alex.
Níl
- Adams, Gerry.
- Boyd Barrett, Richard.
- Browne, John.
- Calleary, Dara.
- Collins, Joan.
- Collins, Niall.
- Colreavy, Michael.
- Cowen, Barry.
- Daly, Clare.
- Donnelly, Stephen.
- Dooley, Timmy.
- Ellis, Dessie.
- Ferris, Martin.
- Flanagan, Luke ‘Ming’.
- Fleming, Sean.
- Fleming, Tom.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Halligan, John.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Healy-Rae, Michael.
- Higgins, Joe.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
- McConalogue, Charlie.
- McDonald, Mary Lou.
- McGrath, Mattie.
- McGrath, Michael.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Murphy, Catherine.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O’Brien, Jonathan.
- O’Dea, Willie.
- Pringle, Thomas.
- Ross, Shane.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Stanley, Brian.
- Tóibín, Peadar.
- Troy, Robert.
- Wallace, Mick.
Will the Taoiseach update us on the banning of corporate donations Bill which was committed to by the Government? The Opposition brought forward such a Bill, but it was voted down by the Government parties. I presume the reason was to allow corporate donations to flow in for the presidential campaign. Will the Taoiseach outline the timetable for the Bill which was committed to by the Government?
It will not be introduced in this session. We wanted to make it a priority, but because of the requirements of the troika legislation which had to be published and dealt with, it was pushed back a little, although not far.
The Bill is available.
Yes, and the Minister, Deputy Hogan, has done much work on it. It will probably be introduced in next session.
There is too much money flowing in.
The Taoiseach could have accepted our very comprehensive Bill.
It would not deal with the matter in the way the Government's Bill will.
I will make two points. The first concerns how debates, questions and answers are provided for. I took the opportunity to examine the work done by the last Government, when former Deputies Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen held the post of Taoiseach, and it is almost as if places have been switched. Many of the remarks made by the Taoiseach and the leader of the Labour Party when in opposition reflected the same frustration I am voicing. It is very difficult to have a proper debate. Earlier I cited the eurozone crisis as an example. Another is what has been referred to as the sale of non-strategic assets, in respect of which the Government has set out its intention to sell off such assets. Although it has qualified its intentions, we want to see the details. What will it do about Coillte, Bord Gáis and so on?
This is the Order of Business. We are dealing with promised legislation.
When will there be a debate on these issues?
Has a debate been promised on the sale of the assets mentioned?
As I said to Deputy Martin, the Government has as part of its programme the realisation of €2 billion from the sale of State assets. These assets would be considered to be non-strategic which it would be appropriate to sell at the proper time in accordance with the best evaluation to be made. There will be negotiations with the troika as to how the proceeds should be used; the troika's preference would be that they be directed towards debt reduction, while the focus of the Government would be on job creation and investment in infrastructure.
Is the figure €2 billion or €5 billion?
We have not planned a discussion on this issue, but if and when decisions are arrived at, there will be a debate. Deputy Adams mentioned Coillte. There is no question of the ground and the land being sold. If a decision is made, it will be in respect of the crop. There has been no decision made. On any potential sales there will be a proper discussion following evaluation by NewERA and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, as well as consideration by the Government, including the relevant Ministers, and everybody else involved. The Deputy will have his chance, but no specific debate has been promised on the issue.
I remind the House that the Order of Business is a technical exercise to deal with questions on legislation.
With regard to NewERA, mention has been made of the potential disposal of the remaining shareholding in Aer Lingus. Given the importance of the Heathrow Airport landing slots to business and balanced regional development——
The Deputy should get to the relevant legislation.
——will the Taoiseach bring forward legislation, in the context of disposal of the shareholding in Aer Lingus, to ring-fence the landing slots at Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports?
That is not relevant to the Order of Business. The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.
The question deals with proposed legislation.
No legislation has been proposed in that regard.
The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport will consider the matter and the Deputy could table a question to receive an update. He would have it by next week.
The Deputy knows that very well, as he comes from a long-standing political family. Deputy Ferris on the Order of Business. No statements please, Deputy.
With regard to selling strategic assets on foot of the demands from the IMF and legislation that is due to come before the House, the stated purpose of the forestry Bill is to support the development of the modern forestry sector——
Just ask the question.
——which enshrines the principles of sustainable forest management and protection of the environment. How in the name of God can the purpose of that Bill——
The Deputy did not hear what I said. This is about when legislation——
This is a Bill that is due to come before the House.
Table a parliamentary question.
The purpose of the Bill is being undermined by the intent to sell assets.
Please resume your seat. I call Deputy Fleming.
In view of the number of small subcontractors who are facing bankruptcy due to their participation in publicly funded contracts, when can we expect the Construction Contracts Bill to be brought before the Dáil?
The heads of the Forestry Bill mentioned by Deputy Ferris were approved on 10 March 2009.
What about the purpose?
Yes.
The purpose has changed.
We do not deal with the purpose, Taoiseach.
I am trying to get answers.
It is now expected to be published early in 2012. Second Stage of the Construction Contracts Bill will be taken in the Dáil.
When?
If Deputy Fleming will ask his party Whip to raise it at the next Whips meeting, a date can be arranged.
There are only approximately 49 seconds left. I ask Deputy Mac Lochlainn to be quick.
Do not forget me, a Cheann Comhairle.
The Government has said it will transpose——
Do not mind what the Government said. Just ask the question.
With regard to the EU directive to be transposed into law this year, will the Government ensure that rural dwellers will be assisted if they must replace their septic tanks? Will that legislation be introduced this year?
That is for a parliamentary question. I call Deputy Ellis. We do not deal with parliamentary questions on the Order of Business.
What is the purpose of it then?
It is to ask about when legislation is to be taken.
The Taoiseach will remember Fianna Fáil's waste——
Do not mind what Fianna Fáil said. Just ask about legislation.
I will ask the question but I must have a lead-in to it.
Please get to the question. We are over time.
I cannot just ask the question without a lead-in to it.
You can ask, actually; it is very simple. Just ask when the legislation is due.
A Deputy
He has a script, a Cheann Comhairle, and must read it.
The Taoiseach will remember Fianna Fáil's Waste Management (Amendment) Act 2001, which Fine Gael and the Labour Party opposed.
The Deputy should resume his seat.
It took powers relating to waste management away from elected representatives. There are thousands of citizens in this city——
I call Deputy Flanagan.
——dependent on waivers, such as senior citizens, the old, social welfare recipients and those on low pay.
Do not mind that. You must resume your seat.
Has the Government any plans to amend the Waste Management (Amendment) Act 2001?
No. Table a parliamentary question.
What plans does it have, if any, to introduce legislation providing for a national waiver scheme?
Please, resume your seat, Deputy. You will not be called again if you continue like this. You know well what the story is.
With regard to NewERA and the 100,000 jobs it is planned to create in the next five years, can the Taoiseach tell us what the other 350,000 people are to do?
No, he cannot tell you.
No, he cannot, even if he tried.
Table a parliamentary question.
I agree with you, a Cheann Comhairle. He cannot tell us.
A Deputy
You are sharper than we thought.
I would never make a joke about people who are unemployed.
I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.
I did not hear his answer.
On promised legislation and promised debates,——
Is it not relevant? It probably is not.
——I must correct the Taoiseach because before the summer break he promised we would have a chance to debate the sale of State assets. I ask him to keep that promise.
I am sure he will.
What sort of debate is it if we do not get a chance to debate in this House the merits or demerits of selling off the family silver——
The ESB is for sale.
I am sure you will. Thank you, Deputy.
——before the decision is made? Can we not have a democratic debate before a decision? We want to know if Bertie Ahern will end up owning the forests in this country.
We will now move on to the Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill——
A Cheann Comhairle, you have missed me.
We are a minute and 42 seconds over time.
A Cheann Comhairle, I asked about legislation for a national waiver scheme. Can I get an answer?
You cannot. It is not on the Order of Business.
That is ridiculous. I am asking about legislation.
That is not promised legislation.
The Deputy should table a question to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.
It is promised legislation.
I am sorry but we are out of time. When people call for divisions, they use up the time.
You missed me, a Cheann Comhairle. You listen to all of them over there.