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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Oct 2011

Vol. 745 No. 1

EU Summits: Statements

I am happy to have this opportunity to brief the House on the European Council and the euro summit meeting, which took place in Brussels on Sunday last, 23 October. As the House will be aware, we are in the unusual situation that further meetings of the European Council and eurozone leaders will take place this evening in Brussels. I was anxious, therefore, to use the opportunity also to brief the House to the fullest extent possible on the state of play concerning the various elements of the comprehensive package that continues to be the subject of negotiations among EU partners.

The situation is fast-evolving — elements are being hammered out as we meet — and it would not be appropriate to enter into the exact detail of what is currently on the table. While we have made considerable progress, there are a number of difficult issues that remain to be resolved at this evening's meeting. I remain hopeful that it will prove possible to move forward tonight. Europe needs a convincing and comprehensive outcome that will help to restore confidence in the markets and stability in our economies. That is what I will be working to achieve.

A number of important decisions were taken at Sunday's meeting. While the focus was naturally on economic policy, especially the situation within the euro area, we also agreed the EU's position going into two very important international meetings, the G20 Summit in Cannes next month and the Durban climate change conference later this year. Furthermore, the European Council agreed a set of conclusions on foreign policy issues, covering developments in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and Iran as well as last month's eastern partnership summit. The European Council also issued a statement welcoming the announcement of the cessation of ETA's terrorist activities.

There were three elements to our work. We began with a meeting of the European Council at 27. Our discussions in this format continued over a working lunch. We then met as the euro summit at 17. In our morning session and over lunch, the focus was on economic matters and, in particular, how to prioritise measures with the greatest potential to generate growth and jobs. We first heard from the President of the European Parliament, Mr Jerzy Buzek, and were briefed by President Barroso on the Commission's proposals as set out in its recent communication, "A Roadmap to Stability and Growth".

In my contribution, I stressed the particular importance of realising the potential of the Single Market, including in the digital area. I also highlighted competitiveness issues and measures to support small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, including reducing administrative burdens and securing access to finance. We have to make it easier for businesses across Europe to get on with running their enterprises and employing people. This means reducing red tape, especially for our smallest businesses, and providing as enabling an environment as possible. The Commission has been asked to fast-track work in this area. We all know from our contacts with business people here that SMEs have been particularly affected by the credit crunch. Access to funding is a vital concern for them. This will now be taken up as one of the priority actions under the Single Market Act.

I also set out the particular difficulties of those member states currently in an EU-IMF programme and I urged that all of the Union's resources be mobilised to support them in their efforts to return to the markets. A commitment to this is included in the conclusions. We also called for the adoption of proposals to increase co-financing rates for EU funds by the end of the year. This will have a direct benefit for Ireland.

At my suggestion, specific reference was made to the situation in programme countries in requesting the European Investment Bank to examine how it can further contribute to boosting investment in Europe. My officials and I will now engage closely to ensure we utilise the potential of this opportunity to the maximum. It is important that the issues of growth, stability, jobs and employment be central to any of the European discussions. In a more perfect situation, leaders would be able to go back to their own countries and explain to their citizens the decisions taken by the European leaders as to how Europe can actually encourage, develop and provide an environment for further growth in opportunities and jobs, which is the central issue for people in whichever country they live.

The European Council also called for a stronger focus to be given to the growth-enhancing aspects of the Union's external policies so as to maximise their contribution to growth in Europe and to create the right conditions to attract inward investment. In the absence of progress in the WTO Doha Round of trade negotiations, we called for renewed emphasis on concluding bilateral and regional agreements, for capitalising on our relations with neighbouring regions, and for developing a comprehensive investment policy that aims at two-way liberalisation and protection as part of the Union's common commercial policy. Work will be taken forward on this as a priority.

Importantly, the European Council agreed the Union's position for next month's G20 summit in Cannes. At that meeting the EU will seek to make progress on reforming the international monetary system, strengthening the regulation and supervision of the financial sector, tackling the excessive volatility of commodity prices, and promoting global recovery and sustainable and inclusive growth.

We also endorsed the EU position to be pursued at the Durban climate change conference later this year. The EU will work towards an ambitious and balanced outcome at Durban, stressing the need to take ambitious steps towards a global and comprehensive legally-binding framework for the post-2012 period.

As I already set out, the main discussion of economic matters took place over lunch with 27 countries and then at a meeting of the leaders of 17 countries in the eurozone. Discussions focused on what has been achieved and what remains to be done. While it was not possible to reach final agreement, good progress was made on the comprehensive package aimed at moving beyond the current crisis and restoring stability. There were five elements to this which we hope to be in a position to adopt later today, but obviously I cannot give the House an absolute guarantee on that.

We need to ensure an outcome for Greece that puts its debt on a sustainable path and that allows its economy to recover. The nature of the role of the private sector in that regard is a key and fundamental consideration.

We need to construct credible and robust firewalls to prevent contagion spreading to other member states, especially those already in a vulnerable position. This means maximising the resources available to the European Financial Stability Facility and providing the EFSF with greater flexibility. Several options for this are being explored and we hope to agree on the best approach when we meet later today. The House will be aware of two facilities there — a special purpose vehicle and the insurance method of leveraging greater facility under the EFSF.

This is a vital issue for Ireland. We do not want to see the hard-won progress we have made undermined by events beyond our control. The extent to which our efforts are recognised by partners is gratifying and I sought to stress the fact that we remain vulnerable to negative developments and that there is a shared interest in ensuring that we are adequately protected. The same applies in a number of other countries.

Even as Greece's sovereign debts are restructured and put on a more sustainable footing, the question may arise from Members of the House as to why Ireland remains absolutely committed to sticking to the programme and honouring all of our sovereign debts in full and on time. My answer to that question is simple — this is the course of action that is best for Ireland's economic recovery, growth, employment and creation of jobs for our people in this country. This is a crucial issue and the logic of sticking to our plans is worth debating. The choice for us is between working to improve the programme or completely repudiating it. Importantly, working the deal does not mean passively submitting to its terms. It means attempting to make the deal serve us better by renegotiating its terms on an ongoing basis. Critically, this strategy is working for Ireland.

The economy has started to grow again. GDP increased in both the first and second quarters of this year. This was thanks to strong export growth which was due in turn to improvements in the competitiveness of Irish producers and to Ireland's enduring attractiveness as a destination for foreign direct investment. The public finances have stabilised and the budget deficit has started to decline. This year the deficit is expected to be just over 10% of GDP. Last year the underlying deficit was 11.5% of GDP. The 2012 budget will target a deficit of 8.6% of GDP.

Investors' confidence in our ability to tackle successfully our economic and budgetary problems has greatly improved in recent months. For example, the yield on ten-year Irish bonds, which is the notional cost of borrowing for the Government, has fallen from 14.5% to 8.5% since mid-July. This has occurred at the same time as yields on Greek Government bonds have risen to new record levels and is a reflection of the fact that Ireland has met all its programme performance targets to date and is expected to continue to do so.

We have secured better terms under the deal. The most easily quantifiable example is the substantial reduction in funding costs relating to the EU element of the financing package, the savings from which will be about €900 million in 2012 and will rise to almost €1.2 billion in 2014. However, there are other ways in which the terms of the deal have been improved including by setting and achieving ambitious targets for private sector contributions to the cost of recapitalising our going concern banks; the acceptance by the troika of the measures contained in the jobs initiative such as the cut in VAT and employers' PRSI; and in securing the troika's agreement to the replacement of deficit reduction measures incorporated in the original agreement for the 2012-14 period by measures that the Government considers to be more growth and jobs friendly and orientated.

Working the deal represents the best way forward for Ireland. The deal is working for Ireland, but it can be made to work better. The challenge of ensuring that the burden of debt taken on by the Government can be sustained is being surmounted, but surmounting it can be made easier by negotiating further improvements in the terms of the deal. This, the Government is fully committed to doing.

We will continue to seek improvements in the legacy costs that have been incurred by the State in rescuing the banking system, all the more so since these costs reflect in part the cost of protecting the broader European banking system. The increased flexibility for the EFSF that emerged from the European Council meeting of 21 July offers Ireland the opportunity to seek assistance in this regard. The deal to boost the capacity of the EFSF, which we hope to reach in today's discussions, may also offer further opportunities from which we can benefit. More broadly, building on our status as a country that is meeting its commitments, we will push our European partners to pursue policies that stimulate economic growth in Europe and hence create stronger market conditions for our exporters. This is another way of working that deal.

The alternative is to repudiate it. This would be enormously costly for Irish citizens. It would mean walking away from a set of international commitments solemnly entered into. It would mean rejecting the path of reasoned discussion and negotiation with our international partners. The costs of choosing this route would be enormous.

In the first instance, since it would almost certainly bring about a sudden stop to international funding of the Government's borrowing requirement, it would mean that that borrowing requirement would have to be eliminated by abruptly closing the gap between Government revenue and non-interest spending. This would require measures many times harsher than those that will be necessary in budget 2012, and would certainly plunge this economy back into recession.

Since the deal is seen to be working for Ireland and since Ireland is seen to be on the path to debt sustainability, repudiation would be viewed by investors as a situation of "won't pay" rather than "can't pay". The result would be a large and enduring premium on the Government's borrowing costs that would undermine living standards in Ireland for a generation. The reputational damage inflicted on Ireland by repudiation would likely have serious negative consequences for our international trade and our attractiveness to foreign direct investors. Therefore, a Greek haircut is not a panacea for Ireland's challenge.

There is a perception that imposing big haircuts on bondholders will somehow provide Greece with a passport to painless adjustment. Nothing could be further from the truth. Even after the haircut, it is likely that the Greek debt ratio will be higher than Ireland's. Moreover, extremely harsh austerity measures, much harsher than anything that has been implemented, or is ever likely to be implemented here, will remain the order of the day in Greece for a long time, including the following: the tax-free threshold for income tax is to be lowered from €12,000 to €5,000, the VAT rate applicable to restaurants and bars is to rise to 23% from 13%, monthly pensions above €1,000 are to be cut by 20% and 30,000 civil servants are to be suspended on partial pay. Who could possibly want a similar situation in this country?

The Government is determined that our fate should be a better one. What is being done for Greece, including the steps that will need to be taken to make its debt sustainable, reflects a uniquely difficult situation. I cannot say it often enough or strongly enough; we will not be going down the same road.

Is it agreeable for the Taoiseach to finish his speech?

I thank the Deputies.

Good progress was also made on restoring confidence on Europe's banks through enhancing the quality and quantity of capital available to them and through ensuring their medium-term funding so as to safeguard the flow of credit to the real economy. We have first-hand knowledge of how critical it is to get the banking system on to firm ground. That is what we have done through a process of rigorous and credible stress testing, and the consequent necessary capitalisation. Without taking those difficult, but essential, steps earlier this year, we would find ourselves with those issues to face now. The other two elements of the package are agreement on prioritising growth to which I have already referred, and new measures to enhance economic governance, especially, but exclusively, in the eurozone.

Last Sunday, we recognised that we have already done much to strengthen governance since the crisis first broke. The Europe 2020 strategy has given us a framework to ensure growth-enhancing structural reform. The roll-out of national reform programmes by each of the 27 member states is a vital element of that process. The European semester approach helps to ensure that structural reforms stay on track, including in the Stability and Growth Pact. The euro-plus pact provides us with an improved quality of economic policy co-ordination, and the agreement reached last month of the six new legislative measures, the so-called "six pack" on economic governance allows for a much higher degree of surveillance and co-ordination than we have enjoyed to date, with a view to ensuring sustainable public finances and the avoidance of excessive imbalances. For the way forward, it is important not to underestimate how far we have come.

We recognised also that there is scope to do more to improve fiscal discipline and to deepen economic integration in Europe, particularly within the euro area, not only as an end in itself, but as a further reassurance to the market that once we emerge from the current crisis we have the structures in place necessary to ensure that we never again find ourselves in this position. Ireland has a strong and vested interest in a stable currency and, as I have stated clearly, I support measures to underpin it. We have now agreed that we need to reflect further on how to strengthen economic convergence within the euro area, how to improve fiscal discipline and how to deepen our economic union.

European Council President Van Rompuy, who it has been agreed will also chair euro summit meetings for the remainder of his term, has been requested to prepare a report, which will form the basis for a further European Council discussion in December of this year. President Van Rompuy's work will include an exploration of the possibility of limited treaty change.

I stress to the House that at this point the outcome of deliberations on this issue is by no means predetermined. I continue to believe that there is considerable scope within the existing legal framework, a view that is shared by a large number of partners. However, I would be fooling the House if I did not state that there are others who take a different view and who are strongly of the view that some change, however limited, is required. The case for this will have to be examined carefully over the coming months. I have strongly urged partners that we approach this work from first principles — establishing what we want to achieve and, only then, how we need to go about that.

I should add that a theme running throughout our discussions at the weekend was the need to avoid fragmentation of the Union, especially in creating large gaps between those member states that have the euro as their currency and those that do not. This is an important discussion. Obviously, proposed changes to the way we organise our work must respect that basic requirement. This is reflected in the conclusions adopted on Sunday.

I look forward to representing Ireland at this evening's meetings where my focus will be on securing a comprehensive and credible outcome for Europe, for the euro and for Ireland; and for a deal that protects Irish interest and supports and contributes to our recovery. The stakes are high but I believe that, with the right political will, we can find the necessary agreement and arrive at the appropriate decisions. I look forward to coming back to the House next week to brief it on the outcome of the summit. I thank the Deputies for their indulgence in my running over the time here.

This is a moment of unparalleled crisis for the European Union. It is on the edge of a financial collapse, perhaps more severe than the 2008 crisis because of the number of countries involved. This is not about Greece. The growth and prosperity which Europe has secured over nearly 60 years was achieved because of the ways in which states opened up and became intertwined. This is a genuinely pan-European crisis and much time has been wasted over the past three years in attempts to blame it on individual states.

Everyone who cares about the future of Europe wants the European Council to succeed in agreeing a comprehensive and credible plan to tackle the crisis. Unfortunately, anyone who is following what is happening must conclude that these summits have turned into a shambles.

It is two months since it was accepted that past measures were not working, yet what is emerging is another short-term fix which will cause longer-term damage. We are witnessing a destructive failure of leadership and the pursuit of clearly flawed policies. There has been no attempt by the leaders to work collectively and they appear resolutely committed to a course of trying to stay within a policy framework which cannot work. It may well be that what emerges is the best that could be agreed but it is also likely to be not good enough.

As the Taoiseach likes to point out, we have been holding regular debates about European summits. As with so many of the pretend reforms of the past seven months, the adding of time has been accompanied by the removal of substance. Nothing illustrates this better than the treatment of Dáil Éireann this week and last. Other parliaments have received detailed technical briefings about what is being negotiated. Governments throughout Europe have set out exactly what their positions are. In the case of the Bundestag, it is not only being presented with the detail of negotiations; it will today hold votes, both in committee and in full plenary session. In contrast, the Taoiseach has been asked on at least six occasions in the past fortnight to explain his policies and the proposals which are being considered. He has constantly refused to give any substantive detail. The only serious information which this House has received about what was discussed on Sunday and what will be discussed tonight has come from the media and from Members contacting people in other countries.

Look back at the reports of debates which we have held on previous summits and one will see the Taoiseach and the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, brushing aside the concerns of Opposition Deputies that agreements were insufficient. They have moved from the heavy amounts of petty partisanship seen in the earlier months to equally unfounded amounts of self-praise. The paraphrasing of official communiqués and widely known outcomes is all we have heard about negotiations.

There has been no attempt to engage in the debate here or to be open about what Ireland's position at the Council will be. The only clear policy is waiting for agreements for which we can claim credit. The Taoiseach's claim during questions last week that Ireland had tabled Greece and bank recapitalisation as agenda items was so brazen that even he has not defended it.

What is known from the media and from contacts in other countries is that some elements of the overall package to be agreed in principle tonight will be positive. However, it will fall far short of providing the clear protection against contagion which is the only way to restore confidence in the eurozone. While the immediate measures on Greece and bank recapitalisation may be sufficient, the scale and terms of available funding for future needs are not enough. At the same time, the reform agenda is heading rapidly down a dead end by focusing on fiscal co-ordination rather than the fundamental issue of financial regulation.

There are those in this House who revel in populist attacks on Europe which are long on empathy but short on substance. I have no sympathy for their approach, which is exactly the same as was employed by members of the Government when they were seeking votes. There is no easy route out of this crisis. The issues involved are highly complex and are, therefore, difficult to get right and easy to misrepresent. There are, however, simple tests which must be met for any package to be credible. The foremost of these is that there must be enough funds readily available to deal with current and possible needs. Given that Italy alone requires €250 billion next year to re-finance existing debt, a genuinely contagion-proof fund would need to be a multiple of what was agreed in July.

Just as important, the fund has to work in such a way as to avoid serious risks to the ratings of different countries and, indeed, the EFSF itself.

That is actually accepted.

The idea of leveraging the funding provided by member states through the ECB remains the only one which could be both large enough and contain risk. The absolute refusal to do this may mark the final and most grave mistake which leaders have made this year. The argument of the guardians of ECB orthodoxy claim that such a leveraged fund would betray the founding principles of the bank. In this they are right but what they ignore is that these founding principles have been exposed time and again as being completely flawed. The mandate and orthodoxies of the ECB have been at the core of the cause and worsening of the crisis. It has acted with none of the creativity and effectiveness of other central banks. It has taken a hectoring and destructive approach to many issues and has presented as exceptional support measures which should be seen actually as core functions. The very last thing which the leaders of Europe should be doing is trying to protect the current legal basis of the ECB. It has done nothing to merit this respect and it continues to be one of the chief obstacles in the way of a sustainable solution to this crisis.

From its interest rate policies to its failure to provide security about its bond policies, the ECB has damaged everyone from home owners to those dependent on State services. The jerry-rigged amalgam of a new IMF special bailout fund and the use of the EFSF funds to provide bond insurance is almost designed to fail. It may take months to put in place and the number of areas in which it could unexpectedly fail or fall, is huge. Europe needs a fund large enough to directly help countries who cannot afford market rates. If lenders know there is a secure safety net then rates will fall and stay down. It has to be simple and clear. The risk of default is gone because the money is there. It can be argued that what is to be agreed is the most that can be agreed but we should not fool ourselves that it is what Europe needs from its leaders. If Greece were not a member of the eurozone, it would certainly have devalued its currency and it would probably have defaulted on sovereign debt. It has operated under serious constraints and Prime Minister Papandreou's government has done an immense amount to address the core issue of the Greek state spending far more than it raises in taxes. It appears the need to write down substantial amounts of its debt is being addressed. It should not have taken more than a year of the bailout programme before this was acknowledged and the failure to do so clearly added to the escalation of the crisis this year. Whatever is agreed about Greece in the coming days should reflect the reality of the market expectation for a high write-off rather than the negotiating positions of the private sector interests.

Some voices have been raised saying that the approximately €100 billion of recapitalisation funding which will be agreed may not be sufficient and that the structure of funding may be too inflexible. More detail needs to be provided before we can tell if this is so. What is certain is that the higher capital provisions which will be required are essential. This recapitalisation process is the event which the ECB and other member states worked to avoid over the past three years. The previous Government was continually pushed to avoid any action which might pose a risk of contagion to banks in other countries. It is a matter of public record, confirmed by figures in many countries, that we sought to write down substantial amounts of bank-related debt. This was blocked because honouring the debt was presented as a condition of financing support for both public services and the functioning of the banking system. Unilateral action was not taken because unilateral action was not possible but the recapitalisation of banks elsewhere, the argument against burning bondholders, is no longer valid in any way. The honouring of these debts is not required to protect the European financial system and it is not required to protect our ability to borrow. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance have used a dozen ways of refusing to answer the question of whether burning bondholders is a demand which they have placed on the table. They have refused to state exactly what we have sought and what our arguments have been. Most of the members of the Cabinet think it is a great laugh when they are challenged about their own references to, "not a red cent more for the banks". Given that Sunday's meeting was the third summit in a row where the Taoiseach held no meetings or discussions in advance, his claim of yesterday to be negotiating appears barely credible. If matters continue as they are, we will see a re-run of July where the only contribution our leaders made to the outcome was to wait on the sidelines to claim credit for decisions entirely driven by others.

If Dáil Éireann was today allowed the freedom of the Bundestag to set limits to what was to be agreed, there is no doubt whatsoever that a burning of bank bondholders would be passed. Ireland played its part last year by not taking unilateral action against the bondholders. A pan-European approach to bank capital has now been agreed so Ireland has a right to demand the freedom to act. The failure of the Taoiseach to state this clearly suggests we may pick up some crumbs but there will be little else. One of the many dispiriting parts of the half-hour yesterday when the Taoiseach kept refusing to reply to questions about the summit, was the brief mention he made about what was being discussed concerning structural reform in the Union. All he mentioned was fiscal control and nothing about the far more important point of financial control. The flaw at the heart of the euro is not the absence of a single fiscal policy but rather it is the mandate of the ECB and the absence of proper control of the financial system. No doubt there will be a form of words agreed concerning constructive engagement or urgent fiscal controls. If one disregards the nice diplomatic language, what the Taoiseach outlined this morning suggests this is the first time the House has heard that we are on a pathway to a referendum on treaty change. That is the inference I took from the Taoiseach's speech this morning. I got an inkling from the contribution of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, to "The Week in Politics" programme last Sunday night. We are now being conditioned and prepared for that pathway and Van Rompuy has been told to prepare the discussions. That is what is happening. Why can the Government not be more explicit, upfront and honest? The Taoiseach is saying one thing when asked at press conferences and using far more nuanced language to try to obfuscate——

He will be back in December.

——and hide what is actually happening. Those form of words will be meaningless and they have no chance of being agreed or implemented any time in the near future. They are a waste of time and have nothing to do with the causes of the crisis. In contrast, if the leaders were to propose a quick series of treaty changes aimed at broadening the mandate of the European Central Bank and centralising strong financial regulation, this would have every chance of being passed by parliaments and people alike. Alone of the major world economies, the bulk of Europe has a mandate which has as its sole concern the maintenance of loan conditions. This is the main mandate of the European Central Bank. This exclusive mandate sits corrosively at the heart of the bank's culture and operations and it has inflicted misery on millions. It must be broadened to include financial stability and economic growth. Its primary responsibility should be financial regulation and it should be required to be concerned about employment when it takes decisions. While the traditional anti-EU forces would, no doubt, generate a raft of conspiracy theories, these changes would pass an Irish referendum because the Irish people could see the sense and benefit of the changes. Elements of this can and should be done legislatively——

Any agenda which goes significantly beyond this will end in failure and probably sooner rather than later. When summits are convened but controlled by the agenda of a handful of countries, they rarely generate positive outcomes. When they are convened without leaders actively engaging with each other, they are always failures. I have never seen such a lack of bilateral contact between leaders as has been seen in recent months. The hyping up of casual and brief encounters may make sense in terms of media management but it does nothing for the quality of negotiations. The Taoiseach and the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, have made references in recent days to praise for Ireland's determined tackling of its problems. What has been brazen — even for them — has been the attempt to claim that this is anything to do with measures introduced by them. All of the fiscal changes being praised happened because of a budget the Taoiseach voted against and the bank plans he announced are indistinguishable from those prepared by Brian Lenihan and attacked by Fine Gael and Labour during their search for votes in February.

The strategy of attacking the policies but claiming the credit for their impact is transparent and it will rebound on them. To be fair to the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, she acknowledged in December the need to enact the budget and she bravely announced she was only voting against it because she was assured it would pass anyway. The Taoiseach is right when he says that Ireland is not Greece. Unlike the situation in Greece, the previous Government chose to try to deal with the crisis rather than run to the country. Positive signs have begun to return, albeit still far too slowly. Our economy retains key strengths and the potential to create employment. Ireland needs a Europe where confidence has been restored. This can only happen if the twin fiscal and financial crises are tackled in a comprehensive and credible way. There is no room for manoeuvre left. If leaders adopt a raft of jerry-rigged half measures tonight, they may well get a short-term bounce, just like the short-term bounces they got in March and July — and the July measures have not been implemented yet despite all of the talk. However, what happens next may be a devastating blow to Europe, its economy and its people. Ireland must raise its voice clearly for decisive action that will be large and secure enough to show that Europe is serious.

I wish to share time with Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn.

The handling of the euro crisis by EU leaders has been nothing short of disastrous and if current reports are to be believed, this will continue today. The leaders of France and Germany seem to have taken it upon themselves to decide the future of Europe and the European Union. Their approach to tackling the crisis in the eurozone has been dictated by their national political interests and it seems our Government has been reduced to the role of spectator in all of this. As the Taoiseach said earlier in the conclusion to his remarks, his focus will be on securing a comprehensive and credible outcome for Europe and the euro and on securing a deal that protects Irish interests and supports and contributes to our recovery. I believe that represents the Taoiseach's position. It is a pity that Ireland was not put first and that Irish interests and support for Ireland and its recovery were not put first. That is the flaw in the Government's position.

I do not in any way underestimate the extent of the problem facing the banking sector in Europe. Sinn Féin has called for greater stress testing to unmask the true scale of the problems that the banking sector faces. That crisis was not created by citizens of this State, nor by citizens of Greece, Portugal or Italy nor by other citizens living under austerity. It has been created by greed and by unregulated lending by banks. It is these same big European banks who now appear to be obstructing an agreement being reached which would recapitalise European banks, create a stronger EFSF and see a write-down of Greek debt. The European Union has failed to act in the interests of smaller states. Instead, it has acted in the interests of the big bankers and the narrow political interests of the French and German Governments. The European Union is supposed to be a partnership of equals. It is supposed to be a collective of national governments or state governments working in the best interests of citizens. The reality has been very different.

The previous Fianna Fáil-led Governments allowed the banking sector problems to infect the national economy. They put the interests of bankers and speculators above the interests of ordinary citizens. This approach has been dutifully followed by this Government, regardless of the positions articulated by Fine Gael and the Labour Party in Opposition or during the election campaign. It is clearly Frankfurt's way, not Labour's way. Tá an Ghearmáin agus an Fhrainc ag glacadh eireaball an chait agus tá Fine Gael agus Páirtí an Lucht Oibre leis an tír seo agus muintir an Stáit seo, a dhíol, síos an abhainn.

There has been speculation of a write-down on Greek debt of in the region of 50% to 60%. Sinn Féin is not opposed to this, but we are opposed to the Taoiseach's refusal to make the case for a reduction in banking debt in Ireland. The Government is willing to negotiate the burning of bondholders in Greece, but it persists with the policy of paying in full the unguaranteed and unsecured bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank. It seems beyond logic to want write downs in Greek sovereign debt while Irish taxpayers pay in full for the recklessness of private speculators.

The Taoiseach is on the record as saying that he is opposed to treaty change — until today. On Leaders' Questions today, the Taoiseach changed his position — another U-turn. He must be heading for the Guinness book of records with this one. He said today that he had no problem with limited treaty change. Consistency is not the Taoiseach's strong suit on these matters.

Provided it is in everybody's interest.

The President of the European Council spoke of the need to strengthen economic convergence. Does the Taoiseach go along with that? At the conclusion of last Sunday's meeting, it was reported that EU leaders agreed to bring about treaty change that will involve tightening fiscal discipline and deepening the European Union. Today, I asked the Taoiseach if he would commit——

They agreed to explore the possibility of limited treaty change. The Deputy should be accurate with his words.

I am accurate in my words. Just watch this space. We have been here before. Does the Taoiseach remember the Nice and Lisbon treaties? How many referenda will we have or will we have any at all?

The words were "explore the possibility".

Deputy Adams has the floor.

Clearly, the Taoiseach agreed to the treaty changes which were discussed on Sunday and this does not square with his previous objections on that position. If I may say so, his previous position was the right position to take to treaty change. There is a need for the Taoiseach to make it very clear in his remarks today that if this occurs, he will call a referendum and give citizens their say on the issue.

I remind the Taoiseach of the speech he made to the Institute of Directors in which he said:

We will regain our economic sovereignty. We will restore the good name of Ireland among the nations of the world. This is my mission. This is the Government's mission. This is our mission. And there will be no rest until we succeed.

In order to be true to that commitment, the Taoiseach must use the opportunity today to set out his intention to oppose any change in the European treaties, limited or otherwise, and that if he loses that battle, he will go to a referendum. This is not an abstract nor a party political call. These are important issues of democracy. Citizens have the right to have their say.

While this is important at any time, it is crucial at a time when the policies being pursued by the Government are creating so much hardship. Unemployment is rife in communities across this State, with almost half a million people unemployed. The Taoiseach tells us this deal is working for Ireland, but I cannot see that. Almost half of those on the live register have been unemployed for a year or more. Our young people are facing the choice of the dole, the boat or the plane. Some 80,000 young people struggle on the live register and a further 40,000 people are expected to emigrate within a year. Children with special needs are being denied appropriate support and families in negative equity struggle to pay bills.

This all shows the deal is not working, yet the Government continues with these policies. It will bring in a budget and depending on who is talking on behalf of the Government, it will involve savings of somewhere between €3.5 billion and €4 billion. Is féidir roghanna eile a dhéanamh. Tá a fhios ag an Taoiseach gur obair an Rialtais í ceist a chur faoin rogha atá romhainn. Deireann daoine nach bhfuil slí nó bealach eile ann, ach tá sé sin mícheart. Tá slí agus bealach eile ann.

Another way is possible. Other choices can be made. The Taoiseach can end the madness by going to Brussels today and by refusing to stand over this hand-over next week.

I am extremely disappointed that the Taoiseach would not allow the Dáil to resume next Tuesday to allow this issue be discussed. If he is so clear——

The Deputy looks every inch sorry about that.

I am, because I want to have the opportunity to discuss these issues and to be informed by the Taoiseach——

The Taoiseach said previously that the Dáil would return on Tuesday after a bank holiday.

Please allow Deputy Adams continue.

I want to be informed by the Taoiseach of his policies and the reasons behind them. If I agree with him I want the opportunity to put my agreement on the record and if I do not agree with him I want the opportunity to state a different case. For example, the Taoiseach seems to be totally confused around the issue of Anglo Irish Bank promissory notes. This is a separate issue from the €700 million that comes down on 2 November. That is a payment to private bondholders, which has been undertaken by Anglo Irish Bank with the permission of the Government, not by anybody who came before this Government. The previous Government placed €31 billion of promissory notes in Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide Building Society, with a promise to pay €3.1 billion every year for the next ten years. When this Government was elected, it could have changed that but it decided not to. That is the Government's business.

The promissory notes are one issue, but the issue of the €700 million due on 2 November is a different issue. The Taoiseach should have given us the opportunity to discuss that matter because it is clearly on his watch and within his authority and he could stop it if that was his intention.

These bonds are unguaranteed and there is no legal, political and absolutely no moral obligation to pay this money. Tá mé dáiríre faoi sin nuair a deirim go raibh an t-ádh leis ag an gcruinniú. Tá mé fíor chinnte go bhfuil an Taoiseach ar an slí mícheart. Caithfidh sé athrú mór a dhéanamh agus caithfidh sé bheith ina sheasamh le muintir an Stáit seo. Ná bíodh an Taoiseach ag seasamh leis na stáit mhóra.

My colleague, Deputy Adams, outlined how our national interest should be reflected in the discussions at the EU summit. I share his concerns. There is a need to assert our national interest and the sovereignty of our State. However, what is shaping up as a bad deal for us will also be a bad deal for all of Europe. It looks like the summit will continue to follow the mistakes of the past. European leaders are doing too little, too late. They are placing the demands of wealthy bankers ahead of the needs of the citizens and pursuing austerity when we should be promoting growth. We need to put an end to this. What we know of the tentative agreement at the weekend is that it will continue the failed practice of cutbacks, taking money from taxpayers to bail out banks and placing the burden onto the economies of peripheral states. We are told that they are considering a Europe-wide banking bailout without knowing the cost of the bank recapitalisation. Perhaps the Taoiseach can bring the Anglo Irish Bank case study to the summit to demonstrate what happens when one gives a blank cheque to bankers.

Austerity and bank bailouts will not lead to growth across Europe, the stability of the euro or reduced debt levels. It has failed here, failed in Greece and Portugal and it will fail in the European economy. I accept that we are not Greece and Portugal but the approach of austerity has failed in all economies. What makes European leaders believe it will work across the EU? A number of steps are required at European level if we are to deliver growth and stability across Europe. We need honesty and we need to know the true level of the banking losses. The current EU stress tests failed to deal with the exposure of banks to sovereign debt and continue to overvalue property assets. Once we know the full extent of the problem, we can begin to act.

Reports today suggest the banks are opposed to a substantial write-down, which is no surprise. This is a crisis in banking and finance. Without a substantial write-down, the alternative is an unstructured default, which will have a greater impact on banks. The banks are involved in a game of bluff and that bluff needs to be called. The banks need to step up to the mark and take responsibility for the mess they have created. They must be forced to write down the cost of their bad debts as a condition of any future recapitalisation. The cost of recapitalisation should not be borne by ordinary taxpayers across the EU. An enlarged EFSF is not the vehicle for recapitalisation. The ECB should become the lender of last resort for the European banking system. The ECB performs this function in a number of countries, including Ireland. Rather than printing euro to buy the bonds of European economies, the ECB would be better placed redirecting these facilities to stabilise the European banking system.

Alongside recapitalisation, we need to promote economic growth and employment. In the absence of private sector investment, we need a European stimulus to complement stimulus programmes in individual member states. The European Investment Bank has twice the lending capacity of the World Bank and it must use this capacity, with national governments, to increase the level of investment and create employment and build infrastructure.

I fear the grand bargain, as it was called at the weekend, will be the failed approach of the previous Irish Government implemented at a European level. I hope that the Taoiseach brings our experiences with him and that he will carry with him the story of many thousands who are on the dole or were forced to emigrate. I hope he will demonstrate clearly that the approach advocated has further depressed our economy. That approach has failed the State and it will fail the European economy. It is remarkable to see an absence of political leadership for so long in Europe and the lack of any real solidarity or a solution. Now, we see the spectacle of David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy exchanging insults and President Sarkozy and Chancellor Merkel laughing when asked whether Prime Minister Berlusconi's government in Italy is capable of repaying. This is a damning and symbolic message to send to the people of Europe. To repeat the mistakes made in Ireland and the crazy policy of writing a blank cheque for bankers without carrying out due diligence on the European banking system will lead to profound disaster, even worse than what we have now.

I propose to share time with Deputies Clare Daly, Mick Wallace, Richard Boyd Barrett, Catherine Murphy and Shane Ross. We will be brief but devastating.

Last week, the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, and I were on "Prime Time" discussing the European crisis. The Minister of State said that one should not shout a negotiating strategy from the rooftops. I agree with her that one should not do that but the problem is that we are shouting a negotiating strategy from the rooftops. At the press conference with the troika, we heard the Minister for Finance say that we are not in the business of not paying our debts and that we want to be a country that pays its way in the world, is seen to pay its way and, consequently, is trustworthy for investors. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, said we have established a clear relationship of trust. Had the people of Ireland seen the clip of that press conference in January or February before the election, a significant number of them may not have voted for this Government because that is not what the parties now in Government were saying. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, described the agreement then as an obscenity and there was much talk of adopting a much more vigorous negotiating strategy with the troika and the bondholders. We have not seen this, while our strategy, at least publicly, is that we state we will pay everyone, including the various bondholder and sovereign debt holders.

Others have adopted different negotiating positions. The Greeks have said that they will not pay it. The Government suggests the Greeks are in meltdown but this is not because of their negotiating position, it is because their economy is not well developed. Iceland also adopted a more vigorous negotiating strategy. Now, the major world banks are playing hardball and are not going to engage in bondholder write-down. Every time that the Government states in the national and international media that Ireland will pay all its debts and, essentially, everyone else's debts, it makes it harder for us to negotiate because it sets the expectations of the market that nothing other than that will happen. I encourage the Government to adopt publicly a much more vigorous position.

It is clear that the eurozone is in disarray and that those at the helm do not have a clue how to deal with it. We see that in the talks that are swinging this way and that way like a pendulum, with various solutions that do not hide the intractable problems in the eurozone. This is not an abstract crisis. Many countries are experiencing serious cuts in services and wages, falling living standards, growing unemployment and so on. Greece is the worst affected and the proposition of a 50% to 60% debt write-off in Greece recognises the fact that the troika understands the current renegotiated deal for Greece, which was supposed to provide a solution only last July, is unsustainable. The Greeks will not be able to pay back the money borrowed. We will have a major managed default in the hope that what the Greeks are left to pay back will be realisable and will help to restore confidence. That is a pipe-dream for two reasons. First, the situation facing people in Greece is cataclysmic. It is an absolute nightmare of falling living standards and austerity, where even the Financial Times has pointed out that planned tax increases and spending cuts for this year are equivalent to a reduction of 14% in average Greek take-home pay, or more than €5,000 per household. Given that the economy is contracting, even with a write-down the debt is simply unsustainable. Second, the difficulty for the Greek establishment is the resistance by ordinary citizens, many of whom have just concluded a 48-hour general strike. It is impossible for the authorities to implement austerity measures speedily in those conditions.

The elephant in the room in all of this is Italy, which faces similar problems in implementing austerity. The key point was identified in the Financial Times yesterday: “The most disturbing aspect about the eurozone right now is that every crisis resolution strategy depends on a moderately strong economic recovery.” However, the policies of austerity being imposed on member states make recovery impossible. I will ask the Minister about the European semester later.

The politicians of Europe have failed to deal in a substantial way with the crisis facing the eurozone. That is certainly the verdict of the markets, which are running out of patience. Several weeks ago in this House we debated whether €440 billion was an adequate allocation for that great vehicle, the European Financial Stability Facility, EFSF. It is now clear, as we argued at the time, that it will take at least €2 trillion before anything is resolved. Italy represents 20% of the EFSF's backing, yet that country is far more likely to be withdrawing money from the fund rather than financing it. The entire concept is a joke. Italy and Spain are facing enormous difficulties, but people are slow to realise just how serious the Italian situation is. The one positive likely to emerge in the coming weeks will be the end of Berlusconi's reign. He has been entirely detrimental to the welfare of the Italian nation.

I am extremely disappointed in how the Government has behaved in its dealings with Europe. Instead of taking the lead and demanding that our situation be improved, we have been at the receiving end of actions taken in response to the latest development. A photograph in yesterday's Financial Times, showing small groups of European leaders discussing the crisis, struck me as sad in that it depicted the Taoiseach standing alone and forlorn. I feel very sorry for him and there is no question that his task is a difficult one. However, the reality is that we have shown terrible weakness in dealing with our problems — more so than all the other European politicians, who have also, in general, been weak. We should have played a much more serious role and been far more forceful in demanding a fair deal for Ireland. Time will prove that we should never have been so receptive to the austerity measures imposed on us, which we took on the chin.

The deference and submission of this Government to the diktats of the EU and IMF would be understandable if the troika's strategy showed any sign at all in the last two years of working and any measure of success in containing the crisis and helping to move Europe in a positive direction. It is bizarre in the extreme, given the utter disarray at the European Council, that the Taoiseach should seek to put a positive spin in this House on what is happening. We have had one crisis summit after another, delays, postponements and talk of treaty changes. It goes on and on as the crisis worsens and spreads further. We are now at a point where there are serious fears of a massive collapse in the European economy.

The Government does not seem to comprehend why all of this is happening. The reality is that the policy of bailing out banks and imposing austerity simply does not work. It was always unfair and brutal but, above all, it just does not work. Rather, it contracts growth, which leads to worsening public finances as growth declines, and the downward spiral continues. Greece is in trouble not because its citizens are resisting and, as a result, have forced at least some of the pain onto bondholders. Greece is in deep trouble because the austerity measures demanded of it continue to intensify, on top of those measures already imposed in the last two years. That is what is causing the Greek economy to contract.

It is now proposed to do the same to Italy, after which it will be done to the rest of Europe. The austerity measures this country is facing will only intensify. How can one expect a different result in the rest of Europe from the disastrous outcome in Greece? The alternative is to say that jobs and economic growth come first and that we will not sacrifice them in order continually to bail out bankers, financiers and bondholders.

How does the Deputy propose to create jobs without any banks? That is what he is advocating.

It is simple; the Government must stop paying off the bondholders. The State must then take over the banking system, decide its priorities and invest in jobs and economic growth.

Where is the money to come from?

We should refuse to pay the next instalment of €750 million to Anglo Irish Bank's bondholders.

The Deputy is against everything.

We should refuse to pay €3 billion to those bondholders next year and for ten years thereafter. That is the alternative. It is about time this Government broke its addiction to the failed neoliberal ideology of austerity and bailing out bankers and bondholders.

If the Deputy offered a feasible alternative I would listen to it.

The Minister of State always heckles because she does not want to listen.

What the Deputy is proposing is pie in the sky.

Governments talked such a good game throughout the Celtic tiger years that the European Union accepted as fact that Ireland was enjoying an economic miracle. Ireland was a reference country in regard to the Nice treaty, pointed to as the member state to which the ten accession states should aspire. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts between 2005 and 2007, I recall that this notion was reinforced to the members of a visiting German delegation. However, they were also told that if the cheap money from Germany ever dried up we would be in trouble and that there was a very high level of personal indebtedness.

We are once again talking a good game. The Government is saying that our debt, both personal and national, is sustainable, that we can pay unsecured private debts and, to top it all, that we can secure a referendum change. All the claps on the back in the world will not insulate those with huge mortgage and personal debt, those facing cuts in public services or the 450,000 people without jobs. The Government keeps telling us that it must be honest with citizens in pointing out that there is no money and that the country is in receivership. There is persistent talk of the need to "act honestly". We should expect the Government, when its members negotiate on our behalf, to be honest about the real situation rather than presenting some type of fairytale. What is being put forward by the Government does not match the facts. Where is the Europe of solidarity? What of the Charter of Fundamental Rights? All we are seeing is one crisis after another.

I agree with much of what my colleagues have said. It is not a great position for Ireland to be in to be applauded by other European leaders and by the Financial Times. The Government claims we are achieving our objectives. That is not so. We are achieving Europe’s objectives and the bankers’ objectives but we are not doing anything which is in the interests of the Irish people. We are doing something in the interests of the Irish Government, and the applause the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance are getting for buckling under to the deal negotiated by the last something is something I do not welcome.

In terms of what I would like to hear, if we are the good boys of Europe and top of the class, what are we getting in return? Are we getting any reciprocal clout at the tables of Europe? Does anybody really listen to Ireland? We are in the political dog house and the European dog house and we have accepted that position by lying down and rolling over. That is not the position we should be in. Greece has constantly deceived, rebutted, opposed and challenged Europe. Greece is getting a reward for that whether we like it or not.

That is ridiculous.

Greece is getting a large amount of its debt written off. I am not suggesting——

People are being killed on the streets in Greece. Is that what the Deputy is advocating?

——that we behave dishonourably but we should not go to the tables of Europe week after week to be applauded for crucifying the Irish people at the behest of the people in Europe. That is not where the interests of the Irish people lie. The interests of the Irish people lie in the Taoiseach, Deputy Kenny, and the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, coming back and saying we have respect in Europe. They are worried that we will not pay back the bond holders and the bankers and even the threat of that would get us a better deal and a certain amount of respect. I see no evidence in what the Taoseach's says that they take a blind bit of notice of what Ireland says at the tables in Europe or in the eurozone. We may be one of equals among the 17 or the 27 but we are in danger of becoming a pushover. That is not where we should be and that is a bad negotiating position to be in.

We will now have questions, the period for which is not to exceed 20 minutes.

Greek default will be a serious event for Greece and we should not pretend otherwise. The sovereign default in Greece will have a very serious impact on Greece's economy and society for a decade but the issue is that because of Greek default there will be a major pan-European recapitalisation of banks. The argument against burning bankbondholders, therefore, is no longer valid. That is the net point.

As I said in my contribution, the previous Government had no choice in terms of acting unilaterally. It made it clear it could not act unilaterally because the argument was that we would create contagion, the risk of default elsewhere and a collapse of the eurozone but that is no longer the case. A new situation is emerging in terms of the summit on Sunday that will take place today and the resolution that will come about. In essence, if Greece defaults and takes a haircut of 50% or 60%, which is probably a more realistic figure, many mainland European banks will be exposed and there will have to be recapitalisation, and that is where we should be negotiating and making it clear that our position in terms of bank bond holders should change. We played our part last year by not taking unilateral action. The pan-European approach to bank capital will now be agreed. We have a right to demand freedom of action and I ask the Minister of State if we have put that on the agenda. Yes or no? Have we asked for our bank debt to be restructured and for the bank bondholders to be burned? Have we put that on the table?

The Deputy finds it easier to simplify what is an extremely complex set of negotiations. The European Council summit will take place this evening followed by the eurozone Heads of State and Government meeting and the issue of Irish bank debt restructuring or write-down is not on the table, nor do we want it to be on the table.

So we have not put it on the table.

It is not on the table.

Is the Minister of State saying we have not put it on the table?

It is not on the table for the summit this evening.

Allow the Minister of State to reply.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, has been engaged in a process of negotiating——

Have we put it on the table?

——on all aspects of our programme, including——

So we have not put it on the table at the summit meeting.

I just said clearly that it is not on the table for this evening's summit. Of course not.

Of course not? I asked a simple question: Have we as a Government put it on the table?

It is very clear. The Taoiseach has already said that——

I have answered the Deputy's question. I said "no".

It is not on the table for this evening's summit.

I am not being smart——

——but for six weeks I have asked this question and all I want is a simple answer. Has the Irish Government sought to put this issue on the agenda? That is all I want to know, yes or no.

That is a very different question.

It is not; it is what I asked.

This entire debate——

Why can we not get a straight answer?

——is about the European summit this evening——

In which we are a participant.

——about which the Deputy expressed great anxiety that we would not have an opportunity to discuss it next week.

We are a participant.

The Deputy now has an opportunity to discuss it in the House and the answer is that Irish debt write-down is not on the table for tonight's European summit.

And we have not put it on the table.

If the Deputy wants to ask the broader question as to whether the Irish Government is engaged in negotiations on the issue of debt sustainability for Ireland in a broader context, yes, it is a topic for discussion. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, has raised it with the President of the European Central Bank——

——and with bilateral partners——

On a point of order——

——as has the Taoiseach. We are doing everything——

The Government as a united force is doing everything in its power to try to negotiate a better, more sustainable deal for Ireland but if the Deputy is asking me, regarding the European summit this evening, whether we are trying to achieve private sector involvement in the same way the Greeks are doing, of course not because that would be extremely and extensively damaging to Irish banking——

The French banks are doing that. There will be a recapitalisation of banks.

——and to broader Irish economic interests.

It is on the agenda.

The French banks have not been recapitalised to the same extent——

——Irish banks have been recapitalised.

Even after the anticipated——

They have to be.

If the Deputy does not want me to answer the question I will sit down and he can keep on pontificating to the House.

The point I am making is——

But it is on the agenda.

Please, Deputy Martin, please take your seat.

Bank recapitalisation is on the agenda.

The Taoiseach said it but we have not put ours on with that. That is the point.

Irish banks were recapitalised last March, as Deputy Martin is well aware.

Minister, please. Other Deputies are offering. This is not intended to be an interaction between two Members. Other people are offering and they must be facilitated.

I just want an answer.

You do not want to hear the answer.

I thank the Minister for her clarity. I spent months, including up to today, trying to get that clarity from the Taoiseach. When I asked him earlier if the Government will be seeking a write-down of Irish banking debt at today's summit he did not answer me. The Minister of State has just said it is not on the table. That is the flaw in the Government's position.

I draw the Minister of State's attention to the fact that the Taoiseach, in response to a question from me here some weeks ago, stated that he was against further fiscal powers being centralised in Europe. He stated on two occasions that he was opposed to treaty change. Today he stated: "We recognised also that there is scope to do more to improve fiscal discipline and to deepen economic integration in Europe, particularly within the euro area ...". He went on to state: We have now agreed that we need to reflect further on how to strengthen economic convergence within the euro area, how to improve fiscal discipline and how to deepen our economic union. All of that is a complete U-turn in terms of his previously stated position. I agree with the Teachta ansin who said the Government is making its negotiating position very clear, and the Taoiseach did that again at length here.

Does Deputy Adams have a question?

First, will the Government recognise even at this late stage that it has a duty to put the issue of a write-down of Irish banking debt at today's summit? Second, could the Minister of State give us some indication whether, if there is to be treaty change, a referendum be held?

On the issue of bank debt write-down, I again reiterate for the benefit of Deputy Martin who chose not to listen to me when I answered his question that it is not a topic for discussion at this evening's Council meeting. The Deputy is entitled to disagree with that. The reality is that the Greek Government is not seeking private sector involvement in its debt and does not want a write-down of its debt. It would prefer to be in the same position as Ireland, whereby we have returned to a position of growth, emerged from recession and begun a serious effort at consolidating public spending and getting our economy back to a far more competitive position with a real prospect of returning to the financial markets in 18 months. That is our task.

Our position is not in any sense comparable to that of Greece, nor do we wish to be. The notion, suggested by Deputy Ross earlier, that Greece was somehow getting its way by being in a position in which it must be rescued by the rest of the European Union and particularly the eurozone is a fallacy. We do not aspire to being a position where our economy is so close to bankruptcy that we must be bailed out.

I did not ask that question.

The global financial system is absolutely dependent on trust and confidence. We have worked very hard, particularly in the past six months. I also give credit to the late Brian Lenihan for some of the work he did to try to control public spending. I have always acknowledged that. I do not approach this in a mealy-mouthed fashion.

However, we have done enormous work in the past six months in trying to rebuild Ireland's reputation. It is not about being patted on the back or being told one is the best boy or girl in the class. It is simply a question of regaining and restoring credibility so we can aspire to regaining our economic independence and getting back into the financial markets in the near future, which is a prospect that does not exist for the Greek Government and the Greek people.

The Minister is not answering my two questions.

There is no prospect of Greece re-entering the financial markets within the next ten years.

I did not ask about Greece.

I was anxious to explain. The Deputy asked me about the Government's position so it is fair——

I asked about treaty change and the change in the Government position.

That was the second part and I will come to that. However, the Deputy asked me about the Government's position regarding PSI for Ireland, in other words, write-down of Irish debt. I believe I am entitled to give my view on the background to that and why the Government is so insistent that we meet our targets and benefit from or take advantage of the fact that we have now emerged from recession and are back in a positive growth position.

As regards the question about treaty change, it is very difficult to predict whether President Van Rompuy will bring forward a proposal on a treaty change to December's European Council meeting. If that happens and if it is agreed there will follow a long and protracted process involving European governments and parliamentarians and all other stakeholders, to change the treaties of the European Union. If that involves a transfer of competence or power from the our national Parliament and Government to the European institutions, of course a referendum would be held in which the Irish people would have the opportunity to vote for or against the proposal. I cannot predict that this would be the outcome, it is impossible to say.

However, at this point we are very forcefully putting forward the argument, along with many of our other partners, that we consider it possible and feasible to achieve the type of integration that is required for European member states to work more closely together and to improve, strengthen and stabilise the European monetary union through the existing instruments, that is, the existing treaties. That is our position and we will continue to articulate it.

There are only eight minutes left. Four Deputies are offering and others are seeking to ask supplementary questions. I ask Members to take that into consideration when they are putting their questions.

Could the Minister of State explain what appears to be the bizarre position the Government is articulating in its statement today? She correctly condemned the last Government for getting us into this mess and for signing up to an unsustainable deal to pay off the gambling debts of bankers and bondholders. It is nauseating in the extreme that Fianna Fáil can pontificate about deals it set up.

No, we are not saying that.

Yes, you are. You make it up as you go.

Do not mislead people. The Deputy is a propagandist.

Having correctly criticised the last Government for this, the Minister of State is seriously telling us it is a bad thing for Greece to get an unsustainable debt written down and it is a good thing for us that we must continue to pay off the gambling debts of bankers and bondholders.

Can we have a question, Deputy?

I am nearly there. How can it be a good thing? The Minister of State might argue it is necessary and I would strongly disagree with her, but it is bizarre in the extreme to say it is a good thing for Ireland because the financial markets will be happy. The financial markets got us into this mess. Who cares what they think?

The people who want mortgages or to start businesses.

What are we going to do about jobs and growth and how does paying off gambling debts to bankers and bondholders help jobs and economic growth?

The Deputy is deliberately trying to misconstrue what I am saying.

I am looking at the statement.

The Taoiseach's statement.

The Deputy is trying to suggest that we are somehow enjoying the fact that we are in an IMF programme and that it ought to be the Government's objective to remain in an IMF programme, where we essentially do not have control over our economic destiny or the parameters of our annual budget. That is preposterous position to put forward.

The issue with Greece is not that it will not pay but simply that it cannot pay. We are in a different position. All the outside expert analysis which has examined the sustainability of Irish debt acknowledges that there are difficult challenges ahead and that it is not easy but equally acknowledges that we can continue on this course.

Tell that to the 450,000 unemployed.

That is absolutely untrue.

If we stick to the commitments we have already signed up to and if we focus our efforts on growth, investment and creating an environment——

Where is the investment?

——for the Irish economy to grow, we can meet our targets and deficit objectives and we can emerge from this crisis. That is the position.

Where is the investment?

Tell us where there is investment.

There is inward investment from a range of global multinational companies——

——which have invested in this country.

Investment is collapsing.

If the Deputy had his way and we reneged on all the debt Ireland has signed up to, there would be absolutely no investor confidence in this country. The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, announced a new investment only yesterday and there was the announcement regarding Twitter headquarters a few weeks ago.

Clearly, the environment is very difficult but the reality is that Ireland's economy has returned to growth this year. We are ahead of our projected growth targets. We will achieve 1% growth this year and it will be greater next year.

We are on the right path and consumer confidence will begin to grow, particularly if Deputy Boyd Barrett and others stop talking about defaulting and reneging on our obligations. That would mean all investment in this country would dry up and there would be zero confidence in our banking sector. It is already difficult to get banks to lend to small businesses, companies and enterprises that are trying to create and maintain jobs. What the Deputy is advocating is entirely irresponsible because it would lead to a drought of investment. There would be zero investment and we would return to recession. If that is the Deputy's solution, it is an irresponsible one.

I will call the four Deputies offering to put their questions and call on the Minister of State to reply. There are only two minutes left so Deputies should be brief.

Could the Minister of State outline her position on the European semester which was mentioned by the Taoiseach and discussed in the European Parliament yesterday? Under this the European Commission and Council will now get the first look at governments' budgetary plans in advance of elected parliaments and the European Parliament will not have the ability to amend the Council's diktats. How could that possibly further the democratic interests of citizens? Is it not just a recipe for imposing austerity because it is not possible to get away with it through parliament?

The Minister of State has just said that all of the economic analysis states that Ireland's debt is sustainable and if we stick to this programme we will get out of it. It does not. If all the economic analysis she is looking at says that, I ask her to give me a call and I will send her expert analysis from all over the world, including the IMF, which says the opposite.

In regard to the strategy, does the Minister of State accept that every time the Governments says it will pay everybody their debts it makes it harder not to do so because the expectation is set in the markets that is what is going to happen? With regard to the summit, what is the Government's position on the fiscal consolidation given that Ajai Chopra and others are beginning to say that it is more and more likely we are potentially drifting into a European superstate?

Will the Minister of State consider an analysis in last week's edition of The Guardian which put forward the notion that many of today’s problems have come from an unwillingness to re-finance Greece, Ireland and Portugal in the early days? Their share of the euro area public debt to GDP ratio is ridiculously low and cancelling out their debt would have been less painful than the present arrangement. The crisis arose because markets and rating agencies saw the stupidity of European leaders who were ineffective when it came to rescuing indebted countries and who introduced self-defeating austerity programmes. Fear produced a ballooning of the interest rate spread and thus the problems have dramatically got out of control because of poor decision-making by the Europeans in the first place.

I have been consistent on these issues from the outset. We have always said there could not be unilateral action by Ireland, and that is what we said before the election. The parties in Government made it clear they would unilaterally burn bondholders — they have reneged on that. The position is now different because at this summit there is a pan-European approach to bank capital and to recapitalising banks across Europe. Given that this is, perhaps, the first and only opportunity we may get to restructure our approach to bank capital in terms of our bank debt, why are we not availing of that opportunity and putting it on the agenda for this summit? President Sarkozy has been arguing for this for the last number of months. He wants the EFSF to take up the recapitalisation of French banks, not the French Government, because he does not want his country's credit rating to be affected.

I thank the Minister of State for her clarity which was very refreshing. She should, perhaps, take Leaders' Questions and the Taoiseach's questions from herein.

A question please, Deputy, we are over time.

The promissory note covering Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide is not part of the troika memorandum of understanding so this is a decision of the Government. Why does the Minister of State not say that as part of getting traction in the negotiations that is the path she will take? It is beyond understanding why the point of seeking a write-down of Irish banking debt is not on the agenda or on the agenda of this summit. I have a very direct question which I hope will be responded to with the Minister of State's customary clarity. Was it put on the agenda and, if so, did the other leaders refuse to allow it to be discussed or was it not put on the agenda?

Sorry, Deputy——

Did the Minister of State attempt to put it on the agenda and, if so, was it refused or was no attempt made to put it on the agenda?

The Minister of State has three minutes in which to answer the questions.

I do not know how I will manage to answer them all in three minutes. The question in regard to the European semester is very much part of Government policy. We have supported it throughout the very complex negotiations at European Council level and as it passed through the European Parliament. I contend that if we had a mechanism, such as the European semester, in place during the past 14 years the profligacy and irresponsible expenditure of taxpayers' money that occurred here would not have happened——

——and we would have a much more sustainable position with the result that the crisis in Ireland, probably, could have been averted. The Government and I are strong supporters and proponents of the European semester and we are already co-operating with that mechanism. The first review was at a Council meeting in September but I can clarify that.

Deputy Donnelly asked about fiscal consolidation and the creation of a European superstate. It is nobody's objective to create a European superstate and I do not believe it is the objective of the vast majority, if any, of the member states. There is a need for greater fiscal co-ordination and that is already happening. It is clear from the conclusions which have emerged from previous European Council meetings and the detail which has emerged from ECOFIN and the finance Ministers meetings at eurozone level that there is greater fiscal co-ordination. We support that and it is in our interest and in the interest of the proper functioning of the eurozone. I do not see that as a cause for concern or that automatically can lead to the assumption that everybody wants to create a European superstate because that is not the position.

From an Irish point of view, when we get into this type of discussion a certain concern is always raised on the issue of corporation tax. Perhaps that was at the back of the Deputy's mind when he asked that question. Our position is clear. The new Government, from March onwards, took a strong and robust position on defending our corporate tax rate. I believe our position has been vindicated and many European partners recognise that. It was never under attack.

I do not believe the Deputy participated in those debates at European Council level. The Taoiseach did participate and I assure the Deputy there were robust exchanges and huge pressure applied. When I visited Paris and Berlin on behalf of the Government very significant pressure was being applied. The Deputy is a little naive if that is his view.

What was the formula?

In regard to Deputy Wallace's point, is the article in today's edition of The Guardian?

No, it was in last week's edition.

The nub of the issue is that it is the objective of the Government to reduce our overall debt burden. We have employed every mechanism available to us at this point. It is important to note — a point which is glossed over and is not alluded to by anybody on the Opposition benches — that the savings the State will incur by virtue of the renegotiation of the interest rate of our overall loan package amounts to €10 billion, which is not insignificant. It would be nice, perhaps occasionally, if Members of the Opposition would allude to any of the Government's successes on behalf of this country. Perhaps I am a little fanciful in believing that could ever happen.

This is akin to scoring goals from the sideline.

We have a common interest. I hope we have a common interest in achieving the best possible outcome for this State.

We are 12 minutes over time. I am sorry, we have to bring the debate to a close.

If there is any issue I have not managed to address, I apologise. I have tried to be as clear as possible and we will have an opportunity next week to review the work of the European Council.

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